One of the reasons I love Tama drums. Even their lower level kits still have great durable hardware. The more you move up from imperialstar silverstar superstar starclassic and star drums the hardware will obviously get better and better with more features but even the low level kits still have great durable mounting systems
5:30: it’s also about the mount on the shell itself. First though, understand that a multi-ply shell has LOTS OF GLUE. That right there kills some of the available resonance. Back to the mount. When the mount is bolted to the shell, unless it’s done on a single node it will really mess with the resonance. (The single node mount will do likewise, but less drastically - at a cost, however, of weakening the shell at that spot over the course of years.) So the best mounting systems are the ones that ‘hang’ the tom from the rim.
The weight of the Tom, on the pole /tube style mount, actually deformed the shell, muting the shell resonance. Mine, once mounted, the 12” Tom would not ring, if I lifted it up with my finger, taking the weight off the mount, it would sing. I fabricated floating mounts and fixed. The issue.
@@knirbnezneryou can always link an imgur or Instagram pic so we can appreciate your work and follow you for your contributions to the drumming community 😊
Thanks for this video, Rob. Good advice. I've found a solution to my particular floor tom issue. I have an old Yamaha Custom Tour kit, circa 1985. It's a great sounding kit EXCEPT for the floor tom which has always sounded a bit choked. A friend who has a Pearl kit brought his floor tom legs to my house and said try these on your drum. Wow. Pearl uses a leg "foot" on some models that has a hole through it that makes the foot less rigid and kind of springy. The sound difference is quite noticeable. You can find these feet sold separately as replacement items and they fit fine on my Yamaha legs. Problem solved. On another note, I was on sound for a local music school and was setting up a cheap kit at a small theater for their annual show. I was having similar floor tom issues. I found a piece of rigid fiberglass insulation about the right size and placed it under the floor tom legs. It had a similar effect with excellent results. Anything in a pinch. Right?
Cool advices. I'm 198 cm tall so my tom holder "rods" are at the end anyway. Also since ergonomically I don't like toms mounted on top of kick (Yamaha Custom Recording kit), I have a separate stand just for 10 and 12" toms. Works great.
Great tip, Rob. Using clamps can be fiddly at first but it also gives you a lot more freedom to experiment when it comes to setting your kit up. And if anyone is asking I would personally recommend your tom tuning video, worked a treat and with minimum fuss.
Hey Rob, you make a good point. I just went crazy trying to figure out why my 10" rack tom would sound awesome when i held it freehand while tuning, only to lose all of the tone when I put it on the rack. After messing with heads and arms and everything, I figured out that it was the type of arm I was hanging it from. Once I switched to a Pearl VersaLock tom arm mounted with an extension clamp, the drum sounded....well, NORMAL!
I inherited an 80's Pearl Export 4 piece. (the ROC version). I ditched the arm through the hole mount on the rack tom for a Pearl made suspension mount just for the reason you explain. The bass and toms have all new Evans heads tuned from watching your vids and I think sounds pretty darn good for a cheap set.I feel no need to upgrade. I put all my money into a Supraphonic snare, good solid stands and high end Zildjian cymbals. (A & K) Really appreciate all your help Rob, from set up to playing lessons.
A while back I kept my rack tom on a snare stand. I began to notice it was two completely different drums on and off the stand. having it on a snare stand might be the worst configuration because it basically sounded like I was playing a bag of yogurt. converting to a 3/8 inch mount off the cymbal stand made all the difference.
@@RobBeatdownBrown LOL. Oddly enough, Bonham almost always had his on a stand, and he got good resonance. I think maybe the rubber on the stands back then was a lot softer. Now it's like hard plastic.
If you want to add something. with the standard Tom mount with the straight vertical rod, if you turn the rod upside down, so that to mount your Tom you need to go from underneath, it will resonate more. I'm currently doing it with my entry level Mapex drums and it sounds way better versus the usual way of using this kind of mount
Oh, I have an elbow pain going on too, on my right elbow, I think It's related to drumming I think I need one of those compression sleeves. I work on technique very hard but it's just never perfect enough I guess. My left wrist is also a bit messed up from traditional grip, no matter how hard I try to perfect my technique
Good info. I have two toms in my gifted from drummer friend starter kit with no mounts, and a mounted tom that's a good but not super great drum, with old Remo Weather King heads on all the toms. This inspires me to look for the external clamp style mounts for my two as yet unmounted toms, and to also see if I can change the one on my kick drum mount. I wonder if having an external clamp on my kick drum tom would isolate it from the splash cymbal I have on the other kick drum mounting hole. It's kind of a cool gong sound when I hit the splash and it makes the tom sing so not a big deal, especially since the gong effect disappears with the band playing. Also I want to replace all the ancient Weather Kings with coated Emperors, John Bonham inspired tone chaser. I've heard that coated heads can help reduce the extra tones confusing the overall sound of cheap toms with old stretched out heads. We replaced the old kick head Weather King with a new Evans Emad clear and now the kick booms like a boss. Not that kick drum is lacking, but would mounting the tom on an external stand improve the kick tone? That would certainly be a totally effective way to isolate the splash cymbal.
1) 100 years ago… (1976) I played a Jazz Festival at Glassbouro State College ( New Jersey). The headliner / last act… was Paul Winter and Oregon. The percussionist had a set of toms that we all “ rubber Bungee “ suspended… NO hard mounts …EVERYTHING FLOATED …those drum had more bottom end than the Dallas Cowgirls…. 2) on a classical guitar… the strings terminate into the bridge and the string tension actually pulls and twists the face of the guitar ..which adds tension in to the face of the guitar..which adds “ springiness” which adds sustain… 2a) look at any acoustic piano… specifically the BASS BRIDGE… ( sorry look it up)… the bass bridge is mounted on an apron and is left UNSUPPORTED…so that the down pressure from the strings adds a twisting tension into the sound board…. Now go re-read the classical guitar reference… same idea… But BOTH bridges are placed/ located… in …THE…right location… respecting nodes and into-nodes in the vibrating body.( sorry look up nodes and anti-nodes) The shell of the tom is SURPRISINGLY RESONANT. The isolated tom mounts avoid clamping down onto the shell which would mute/ choke the shell’s vibration. Anything that helps or allows the shell to move freely will reduce muffling the resonance. The amount of rod penetrating IN TO the shell …hmm..I’m not feeling that. But the extended arm outside the shell…. Yes… maybe… as long as the Mount isn’t too Ridgid.
I'm sorry but no. That tiny amount of tom arm inside the drum has no effect on the sustain of the drum. Nor is the shell "deforming" as some other people have claimed. The damping effect has to do with the fact that the mount, once rigidly connected to the tom, becomes an extension of the tom... a lever arm which absorbs and dissipates vibration. Moving the tom around on the mount arm can change frequency where the damping occurs, but the tom is still always being damped. Yamaha's are especially prone to this in 12" and 13" rack toms because these toms tuning sweet spots are right at the frequency that the ball arm mount damps. The YESS mounts suffer from this as well. Moving the tom along the mount arm might help depending on the tuning of the drum, but then you are limited in where you can place the toms. This is why systems like RIMS mounts work so well, they are not rigidly attached to the drum. DW's system works in a similar way, they hold the drum, but are not rigidly attached. That decouples the tom from the mount and allows it to continue to resonate. Any suspension systems that are rigidly attached to the shell, act exactly the same way as mounting directly to the shell.
Yamaha has since fixed this with a shorter arm and stop pad that doesn’t penetrate the shell. Rob is right. Steve Gadd hung his Yamahas so the rod didn’t impede the resonance.
Rob, a few times I’ve seen good drummers “mounting” their high single tom on a basket snare stand. As only the hoop is in contact with the mounting device (not really mounter, more like “held in space”) but have you ever tried it or know how it would sound? Thanks for the great videos. David, London.
"Hot butt juice." Spittake! 😂 nteresting that some cats, like Billy Martin and Mark Guilliana, actually prefer the full-contact vintage mounts. Never got that. I remember seeing those early quarter-page black and white ads in MD for the RIMS mounts. Got me some in short order and never looked back. Gary Gauger was a genius for coming up with such a simple, effective concept. No wonder every ompany in the world jumped on it. Thanks for these tips!
A lot of budget imported drums are just badly made. At least until 2016, gretsch, PDP, Sonor and others would ship with really bad bearing edges. I had to have 13 PDP toms re-edged. They were untunable with the 1/16th" or greater wave in the edges.
Please stop spreading those resonance myths. You DON'T want resonance in a drum. The modern tom mounts aren't designed to enable "shell-resonance". They're designed to prevent resonance with the stand (isolation). Anything that resonates takes vibration away from the drumheads, making them decay quicker. If nothing resonates, all the energy stays in the heads and they're vibrating longer. More resonance equals less sustain. Less resonance equals more sustain. Apart from that explaination, a practically great tip. 😉
One of the reasons I love Tama drums. Even their lower level kits still have great durable hardware. The more you move up from imperialstar silverstar superstar starclassic and star drums the hardware will obviously get better and better with more features but even the low level kits still have great durable mounting systems
Tama’s hardware is pretty nice for sure
5:30: it’s also about the mount on the shell itself. First though, understand that a multi-ply shell has LOTS OF GLUE. That right there kills some of the available resonance. Back to the mount. When the mount is bolted to the shell, unless it’s done on a single node it will really mess with the resonance. (The single node mount will do likewise, but less drastically - at a cost, however, of weakening the shell at that spot over the course of years.) So the best mounting systems are the ones that ‘hang’ the tom from the rim.
The weight of the Tom, on the pole /tube style mount, actually deformed the shell, muting the shell resonance. Mine, once mounted, the 12” Tom would not ring, if I lifted it up with my finger, taking the weight off the mount, it would sing. I fabricated floating mounts and fixed. The issue.
How about sharing your floating mount fab job.
Thanks!
@@perryfisher3373 I can't post a photo..
@@knirbnezneryou can always link an imgur or Instagram pic so we can appreciate your work and follow you for your contributions to the drumming community 😊
Thanks for this video, Rob. Good advice. I've found a solution to my particular floor tom issue. I have an old Yamaha Custom Tour kit, circa 1985. It's a great sounding kit EXCEPT for the floor tom which has always sounded a bit choked. A friend who has a Pearl kit brought his floor tom legs to my house and said try these on your drum. Wow. Pearl uses a leg "foot" on some models that has a hole through it that makes the foot less rigid and kind of springy. The sound difference is quite noticeable. You can find these feet sold separately as replacement items and they fit fine on my Yamaha legs. Problem solved.
On another note, I was on sound for a local music school and was setting up a cheap kit at a small theater for their annual show. I was having similar floor tom issues. I found a piece of rigid fiberglass insulation about the right size and placed it under the floor tom legs. It had a similar effect with excellent results. Anything in a pinch. Right?
I had a Pearl Reference kit moons ago before I got the PHX and kept the floor tom legs for that exact reason. Very smart idea
Cool advices. I'm 198 cm tall so my tom holder "rods" are at the end anyway. Also since ergonomically I don't like toms mounted on top of kick (Yamaha Custom Recording kit), I have a separate stand just for 10 and 12" toms. Works great.
Great tip, Rob. Using clamps can be fiddly at first but it also gives you a lot more freedom to experiment when it comes to setting your kit up. And if anyone is asking I would personally recommend your tom tuning video, worked a treat and with minimum fuss.
Thanks, man. Glad it worked out for you
Hey Rob, you make a good point. I just went crazy trying to figure out why my 10" rack tom would sound awesome when i held it freehand while tuning, only to lose all of the tone when I put it on the rack. After messing with heads and arms and everything, I figured out that it was the type of arm I was hanging it from. Once I switched to a Pearl VersaLock tom arm mounted with an extension clamp, the drum sounded....well, NORMAL!
Thank you so much I never heard of that before but it makes a lot of sense
There's always a learning curb with you, Man! Thanks ✌🏼❤️
I inherited an 80's Pearl Export 4 piece. (the ROC version). I ditched the arm through the hole mount on the rack tom for a Pearl made suspension mount just for the reason you explain. The bass and toms have all new Evans heads tuned from watching your vids and I think sounds pretty darn good for a cheap set.I feel no need to upgrade. I put all my money into a Supraphonic snare, good solid stands and high end Zildjian cymbals. (A & K) Really appreciate all your help Rob, from set up to playing lessons.
It worked! Even with YESS-mounted Yamahas. I backed the toms off as far as possible and the sustain increased dramatically. Thank you!
That's why I love TAMA. Nothing goes into the shell !!! I have the TAMA super star hyper drive !!!
I love your videos. My no. go to. The way you teach makes a lot of sense to me. Liked and Subscribed.
Great info thanks
A while back I kept my rack tom on a snare stand. I began to notice it was two completely different drums on and off the stand. having it on a snare stand might be the worst configuration because it basically sounded like I was playing a bag of yogurt. converting to a 3/8 inch mount off the cymbal stand made all the difference.
I can’t STAND toms mounted on snare stands, man. Might as well just fill the thing with motor oil
@@RobBeatdownBrown LOL. Oddly enough, Bonham almost always had his on a stand, and he got good resonance. I think maybe the rubber on the stands back then was a lot softer. Now it's like hard plastic.
If you want to add something. with the standard Tom mount with the straight vertical rod, if you turn the rod upside down, so that to mount your Tom you need to go from underneath, it will resonate more. I'm currently doing it with my entry level Mapex drums and it sounds way better versus the usual way of using this kind of mount
Forgot about that trick. Definitely does work well 👌🏽
Oh, I have an elbow pain going on too, on my right elbow, I think It's related to drumming I think I need one of those compression sleeves. I work on technique very hard but it's just never perfect enough I guess.
My left wrist is also a bit messed up from traditional grip, no matter how hard I try to perfect my technique
Good info. I have two toms in my gifted from drummer friend starter kit with no mounts, and a mounted tom that's a good but not super great drum, with old Remo Weather King heads on all the toms. This inspires me to look for the external clamp style mounts for my two as yet unmounted toms, and to also see if I can change the one on my kick drum mount.
I wonder if having an external clamp on my kick drum tom would isolate it from the splash cymbal I have on the other kick drum mounting hole. It's kind of a cool gong sound when I hit the splash and it makes the tom sing so not a big deal, especially since the gong effect disappears with the band playing.
Also I want to replace all the ancient Weather Kings with coated Emperors, John Bonham inspired tone chaser. I've heard that coated heads can help reduce the extra tones confusing the overall sound of cheap toms with old stretched out heads. We replaced the old kick head Weather King with a new Evans Emad clear and now the kick booms like a boss.
Not that kick drum is lacking, but would mounting the tom on an external stand improve the kick tone? That would certainly be a totally effective way to isolate the splash cymbal.
Or would tuning tom higher take it out of the cymbal's sympathetic resonance range? I guess I'll try it and see next time I get a crack at my kit.
1) 100 years ago… (1976) I played a Jazz Festival at Glassbouro State College ( New Jersey).
The headliner / last act… was Paul Winter and Oregon. The percussionist had a set of toms that we all “ rubber Bungee “ suspended… NO hard mounts …EVERYTHING FLOATED …those drum had more bottom end than the Dallas Cowgirls….
2) on a classical guitar… the strings terminate into the bridge and the string tension actually pulls and twists the face of the guitar ..which adds tension in to the face of the guitar..which adds “ springiness” which adds sustain…
2a) look at any acoustic piano… specifically the BASS BRIDGE… ( sorry look it up)… the bass bridge is mounted on an apron and is left UNSUPPORTED…so that the down pressure from the strings adds a twisting tension into the sound board…. Now go re-read the classical guitar reference… same idea…
But BOTH bridges are placed/ located… in …THE…right location… respecting nodes and into-nodes in the vibrating body.( sorry look up nodes and anti-nodes)
The shell of the tom is SURPRISINGLY RESONANT.
The isolated tom mounts avoid clamping down onto the shell which would mute/ choke the shell’s vibration. Anything that helps or allows the shell to move freely will reduce muffling the resonance.
The amount of rod penetrating IN TO the shell …hmm..I’m not feeling that.
But the extended arm outside the shell…. Yes… maybe… as long as the Mount isn’t too Ridgid.
I'm sorry but no. That tiny amount of tom arm inside the drum has no effect on the sustain of the drum. Nor is the shell "deforming" as some other people have claimed.
The damping effect has to do with the fact that the mount, once rigidly connected to the tom, becomes an extension of the tom... a lever arm which absorbs and dissipates vibration. Moving the tom around on the mount arm can change frequency where the damping occurs, but the tom is still always being damped. Yamaha's are especially prone to this in 12" and 13" rack toms because these toms tuning sweet spots are right at the frequency that the ball arm mount damps. The YESS mounts suffer from this as well. Moving the tom along the mount arm might help depending on the tuning of the drum, but then you are limited in where you can place the toms.
This is why systems like RIMS mounts work so well, they are not rigidly attached to the drum. DW's system works in a similar way, they hold the drum, but are not rigidly attached. That decouples the tom from the mount and allows it to continue to resonate. Any suspension systems that are rigidly attached to the shell, act exactly the same way as mounting directly to the shell.
Yes, you are absolutely correct!
Agreed. I don't want toms 2 metres apart just to allegedly get better tone 😂. Bullshit
Absolutely - it's about rigidity - not the metal poking inside the shell!!
Going to try this on my chinese-made drumset.Btw great tips mr Beatdown Brown.Greetings from Malaysia.
Shout out to Malaysia, man. Thanks for watchin’ 🙂
@@RobBeatdownBrown welcome.Hope one day you come to Malaysia to give talks to self taught drummers
very helpful ty
Ive always mounted my toms on the cymbala stands. I need my kick drum nekkid
Yamaha has since fixed this with a shorter arm and stop pad that doesn’t penetrate the shell. Rob is right. Steve Gadd hung his Yamahas so the rod didn’t impede the resonance.
Thanks Rob. What about the two tab or clamp rim mount used on the Pearl Forum rack toms? Are those mounts better? Worse?
Rob, a few times I’ve seen good drummers “mounting” their high single tom on a basket snare stand. As only the hoop is in contact with the mounting device (not really mounter, more like “held in space”) but have you ever tried it or know how it would sound? Thanks for the great videos. David, London.
"Hot butt juice." Spittake! 😂 nteresting that some cats, like Billy Martin and Mark Guilliana, actually prefer the full-contact vintage mounts. Never got that. I remember seeing those early quarter-page black and white ads in MD for the RIMS mounts. Got me some in short order and never looked back. Gary Gauger was a genius for coming up with such a simple, effective concept. No wonder every ompany in the world jumped on it. Thanks for these tips!
😂"Hot butt juice" hahaha, that was funny and correct.
Hot butt juice is a legit drum sound, sir.
If you take a look at Sakae toms, their mounting system eliminates this problem altogether.
👍
👍 Nice
What Clamp are you using ?
I've had that exact same clamp for over 20 years. It's a gibraltar SC-PUGC angled grab clamp.
@@davinciii2510can I just that clamp for a Pearl Tom on
the main reason I f*** with mapex when I'm looking for a cheap drums. Mounting system
A lot of budget imported drums are just badly made. At least until 2016, gretsch, PDP, Sonor and others would ship with really bad bearing edges. I had to have 13 PDP toms re-edged. They were untunable with the 1/16th" or greater wave in the edges.
YESS
ThAnKz... MoRe CoVeRz ! KnOw u cAnT MoN!tYz LoL
I cut half the mounts off with a haksaw, pulling the toms way out don't work they're too far away bro
Please stop spreading those resonance myths. You DON'T want resonance in a drum. The modern tom mounts aren't designed to enable "shell-resonance". They're designed to prevent resonance with the stand (isolation). Anything that resonates takes vibration away from the drumheads, making them decay quicker. If nothing resonates, all the energy stays in the heads and they're vibrating longer.
More resonance equals less sustain.
Less resonance equals more sustain.
Apart from that explaination, a practically great tip. 😉
Hot butt juice is my second least favorite sound.