Indigenous Communities Are on the Front Lines of Climate Change | Hot Mess 🌎
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2018
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Peril & Promise is a public media initiative from WNET telling human stories of climate change and its solutions. Learn more at: www.pbs.org/wnet/peril-and-pro...
As the world figures out how to live with a rapidly changing climate, traditional knowledge from indigenous cultures could help us understand just how things are transforming.
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Host/Writer: Talia Buford, ProPublica
Creative Director: David Schulte
Editors/Animators: Derek Borsheim
Producers: Stephanie Noone & Amanda Fox
Story Editor: Alex Reich
Editor-In-Chief: Joe Hanson, Ph.D.
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Theme Music: Eric Friend/Optical Audio
Music: APM
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Thank you thank you THANK YOU for this video! As an indigenous person myself, it's so rare to see our experiences addressed, let alone embraced.
"...because their knowledge, like any form of science, is dynamic."
I often hear people talk about indigenous cultures' knowledge and techniques described as being primal-being "in harmony with nature," or some such bullcrap. It's nice to see some other people who recognize it for what it is-the science of a region which just didn't benefit from Europe's geographical and historical advantages.
Timothy McLean I don’t even know if the environments that gave rise to European societies could be called advantageous in the long run, considering those societies have been making the planet uninhabitable lately. Maybe harsher, less fertile biomes are what are actually sustainable. Just a thought.
Wait, who has been making the climate uninhabitable lately? The top 5 are China, U.S., India, Japan and Russia. Europe is down the list.
O Soul That’s a good point. The technology that they all use, however, came from Europe. Over the last ~200 years, I imagine Europe was the top polluter for a lot of the time.
Sure the technology might be traced back to Europe but so can much of the reliable medicine, the increase in food production and all the other technologies that have increased life span. It's not the region of origin that is to blame, it's how the knowledge is used.
Lowering the standards of academic science is biting the hand that feeds you
Humans have created this problem we should use our intelligence to help every living creature on this planet better evolve through it.
No Problem! Yes
They observe their environments for generations, start to see patterns, look whether those patterns actually exist and how they can predict the future with them. Our scientist may have more precise tools, but this form of correlation detection is effectively the same. So why should we dismiss their knowledge?
because it's hard to work with. their knowledge is usually steeped in superstition
THE SILENT GOD But if generation after generation witnesses being wrong, their beliefs would change (at least in important cases like weather), because their lives depend on getting it right. Of course they probably misunderstand the reason for the behavior / patterns they see by thinking some kind of god or higher force is involved.
Btw I (obviously) do think that our science is way more accurate (and proven). I just wanted to point out that their method is not so different from our way to get correlational data. What is different, however, is that we don't stop there and search for causation, which is much more reliable.
Sillycon Humanoid
Ask them what they had for breakfast last tuesday. Where is their data written?
Zoe Phin When everything you do is as simple as remembering combinations of wind, temperature change, clouds and smell the memory of the human brain is enough. Of course its more error prone, but it still works.
I really wonder how you think humans survived until about 5000 years ago.
Uhuh, humans were climate recording machines. How else could they survive climate changes that had less variance than seasonal changes. lol
I'm glad the indigenous peoples of Europe, Asia, and the Middle East have shared their indigenous knowledge of the the environment with the rest of the world, so that indigenous peoples in the rest of the world can understand why the climate is changing, and live in homes that last for decades even in the hardest climates, made of materials harvested thousands of miles away, watching videos about themselves on things like RUclips. I also enjoy the knowledge that all the indigenous peoples of the world share back in return. Together, we can all help each other, just like we always have since the beginning of mankind. When indigenous groups of people get together and share each other's knowledge, the world gets better and better, and the fact that we're here on RUclips watching this video attests to that.
An important topic! In college I spent a semester studying earths systems science in New Zealand, and I learned so much from hearing Maori citizens share their knowledge on scientific subjects as diverse as volcanism and eel conservation.
Not sure what to do with the assumption that the viewers of this show all grew up in wealthy suburban neighborhoods surrounded by apple trees though. :P
Cheeeer brother
thank you for the great episode, thanks to sponsors and patreons 💐
I'm thinking to combine indigenous people and modern weather forecast. I live in an island and I noticed how accurate old fishermen weather forecasts, some of them complaining about how "our methods are not working anymore" they knew for sure the weather is changing
“Science” as a term has been coopted by Western colonizers to mean ways of knowing in line with European philosophy and worldviews, to the exclusion and derision of all other methods of thought. We’ve been taught that western scientific tradition is more “evolved” when in reality it simply evolved differently than other modes of thinking. Indigenous populations have had and still have great contributions to make to the human scientific saga.
Maybe the Native Americans can teach Americans something about environmental conservation and preservation, a lack of which is itself CAUSING climate change.
Thank you for making this
I subed to this yesterday!
I'm sure "indigenous" communities know the lay of the land better than those that have never stepped foot there, but their realm mixes the ideas of science and pseudo-science. Scepticism is the middle name of the scientific community.
Unfortunately it's not always the healthy kind of scepticism. From what I've seen it's the kind that comes from arrogance
Ther is skepticism, but the core of science is open mindedness and constant challenging of held ideas.
You make some observations, create a hypothesis of the rules that govern what you observed, then test your hypothesis, if the data does not fit your hypothesis (later called a model) you change that model.
if your skepticism is only directed towards others and not yourself, then you're not doing skepticism right. Part of being a good scientist is not denying yourself any avenue of information before engaging with it, and trying to look for answers everywhere you can find them, and the examples of this video are a good demonstration of that.
That's why scientists learn from them and test their theories, not just believe it by word of mouth.
There's a documentary I saw about an indigenous tribe that have had first contact with the outside world. Even that tribe noticed that the local climate is becoming warmer despite having no previous knowledge about global warming.
A few of my lecturers at university have talked about/around this before, especially the zoology lecturers who can reference multiple studies where if not for the indigenous communities they wouldn't have discovered a new species, been able to track down a particular animal or safely navigate a certain environment. Although indigenous communities may not have the most scientific way of explaining things they certainly often have a very intimate understanding of their environment and make many insightful observations. It's sad that a certain group of people's way of life is viewed as 'primative'.
Honestly, I think those who dismiss knowledge of indegenous people "as being primitive" are racists. The comment section is filled with strawmanning and dismissal of those knowledge which, even though less sophisticated as you said, could still give insight or even lead to new discoveries. Science as we know it after all was built upon from "primitive" knowledge. 60 years ago people laughed at the idea that continents drift due to some sort of fluidic movement underneath the earth's surface. The arrogance and hubris of man is astounding.
Edit: I forgot to mention that funny enough, there's a documentary about an indigenous tribe that have had first contact with the outside world. Even that tribe noticed that the local climate is becoming warmer despite having no previous knowledge about global warming.
Science is growing more open minded. I am tempted to believe that one day we'll use it sensibly almost all the time. Unfortunately, also a bunch of psychopaths are using increasingly powerful tools to create increasingly serious problmes. Keep up with the good work, and we'll succeed !!! :) Thanks for this video.
Capitalism is perfectly capable of creating cataclysmic problems without the intervention of psychopaths, thank you very much.
@@HebaruSan , my expression "bunch of psychopaths" was not meant to be taken literally. I should have better said "special interests clashing with long-term interests of everybody else". Of course problems are not created on purpose by an evil elite. However the term capitalism also doesn't explain much. Capitalism is the economic system of the modern world. Of course, in a way, you can correctly claim that is responsible for almost everything that happens nowadays, good and bad. Does it help you understand or do any better? I don't think so.
Frank Rosser , since its beginning, modern science accepted indiscriminately all theories supported by evidence, true. But we cannot forget that science is a social enterprise made by people subject like everybody else to social influence. This might make a difference when searching for new theories to test. Probably a Victorian scientist would not even bother to check whether a claim from a traditional indigenous source was correct (just an example to make the point, I am not 100% sure it's true). This is what I meant.
Wonderful 👍👍👍👍
I’m sorry I can’t be a Patreon, but I will watch every advertisement on your videos.
This message is so important!
This! So much this.
I have a question - I've heard about huge fires which are burning from years, as the product of combustion is CO2 which is major green house gas and those fires are releasing CO2 from years why aren't we extinguishing them .
Commenting for the algorithm. There's good happening here.
Talia: Indigenous - good band. I like their music.
This is very true
Good show, great host, bad climate change.
The facts should be recorded and tested along with every other hypothesis to see how well it works. Many indigenous people were forbidden, in the past, to pass on traditions, so might not know any more, or might have garbled information. Testing the knowledge for accuracy is what science would do.
You must be able to state the specific impact of CO2 from human activity on any climate factor be it atmospheric temperature, ocean temperature, ocean salinity, snowfall, storm frequency or severity, drought frequency or severity, etcetera.
It's fine to be skeptical of indigenous beliefs, especially if people in the community have no scientific education, but when they say there was a thunderstorm over there...believe them because that's just not the sort of thing you lie about nor get confused as to whether or not it was real. But yes, people who have lived in a place for generations, even if they don't have a scientific understanding of their environment, know it better than anyone else and are excellent sources of information. Give them even a rudimentary education on what civilization has figured out about biology and the climate, and ensure they understand the scientific process of Hypothesis-Experiment-Record-Adjust Hypothesis-Repeat, and boom, instant expert, no years of training required.
Yeah especially The Eskimo And Aleut ones not so much with The Amerindians though
This video is very interesting and important to a topic that could change many things! Another great youtube video to watch on this subject is 'Words Have Power' on Planet Classroom Network. This video is about a young girl that helps to shut down Connecticut's last coal-powered plant.
Yes, the climate is changing and it is human caused. And yes it is a big problem.
But this video is questionable.
1:10 IN-DIG-E-NOUS means
- Self-Identify as indigenous. That's me.
- Follow Traditional customs (pre-colonized). That's me, I do math, play cards, watch the night sky, read books and all sorts of things my ancestors did before they colonized.
- Have a relationship with their environment. That's me, that's everyone.
- Governed by a systems of beliefs. That's me, it's called naturalism, it is the foundation of science.
so am I indigenous?
The Inuit of Western Canada passed down through the generations knowledge about the stars, the shapes of clouds and the behavior of animals to forecast the weather. Sure they did like every other human culture has done. So what?
So now they can't rely on those forecasts? I guess that makes them *unreliable.
Weather varies now the ever before (ever?). The weather is changing and we know why through *reliable scientific methods.
Indigenous peoples (*reliable) observations have been ignored.They shouldn't be, all (*reliable) observations should be included.
"Knowledge held by Indigenous communities can show us ..." If they can do so reliably then it's good knowledge to have. Good knowledge can be had from any Indigenous or not. Indigenous are not special in that way.
"... that scientist can always detect." Maybe but the reverse is true, scientist can show us many many things Indigenous communities can't detect. Why isn't that mentioned?
Any community in wild lands is going to be sensitive to climate change, indigenous or not. Indigenous are not special in that way.
2:50 "... their knowledge like any form of science ..." Let's not conflate the two. Their knowledge isn't always science and science is often different than their knowledge. Again like any other traditional social group. And yea, adapting and tweaking knowledge can make it better but that's opposite of tradition. Indigenous are not special in that way.
3:10 Scientist viewed their observations and ways of thinking as superior to indigenous ways of thinking. A couple of problems with that, first science and indigenous ways of thinking are not completely mutually exclusive. Second, as far understanding the climate and nature, where science and indigenous methods diverge, the science is usually better. But that's true of any superstitions or spirit based ways of thinking and science. Indigenous are not special in that way.
This video seems like a dog whistle to those who think one community is better than another people simply because of who they are, and that's just wrong. This video isn't special in that way. But it's heart is in the right place, getting the word out about climate change.
LOVE this but I would love to have the host be an indigenous person. Redo?
My grandmother could tell the time of the day very accurately just by looking at the shadows made by sun also she sometimes was able to predict rain by looking at sky
Science is the addition of previously verified fact + new observations that can also be tested. Whether it is "indigenous" or some "Ivy League" scientist is irrelevant. That is Science's greatest achievement.
WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS SIDE OF CLIMATE CHANGE MOOOORE!!!
> "Now imagine a different way of knowing your neighbourhood, one that draws not just on years in a single place, but on generations of knowledge over thousands of years."
Okay. That's literally the internet.
> "That's the kind of knowledge that exists in indigenous communities"
What? No it's not... Indigenous communities live in an echo chamber where they only hear local ideas. And not only that, but the amount of people they draw their knowledge from is insignificant compared to how many people we draw knowledge from, from the internet.
Do you think the Internet is the only source of information no even a reliable source of it? Jays, you love the internet so much!
example: People working in cathering were called more exposed to illnesses. But the statistic gathered came from doctors who made a prescriptions on demand to get one day free. Result? = wrong assumption and wrong basis for next research.
What does Hot mess thunk of Guy McPherson's estimate on the 6th extinction will happen on 2025?
there is no problem people wake up and smell the Bison
the word "dubious," springs to mind
Indigenous science should still be evaluated with evidence though. Not all indigenous science is rigorous, especially when it comes to medicine. Traditional Chinese medicine claims to cure the coronavirus. And right now, no effective treatment has been found.
I think there are some regular likers who want that this has to be spread
yes, we should examine what they've learnt, no we shouldn't use their belief systems or inaccurate measurement systems, stick to the scientific method.
A person who don't have any knowledge about his or her roots is like a tree grow with very less roots.. Late Marcus Garvey.. R. I. P.. 🌺father.. See you soon..jah soon arrived.
science
I love this channel, I agree that indigenous communities hold a great wealth knowledge of the lands that they inhabit, and that there are certainly things that we can learn from them, but a couple lot of things in this video really rubbed me the wrong way... And I don't think that it really taught me anything about climate change.
You start with saying that "their way of knowing might help us all adapt to climate change"... What does that even mean?
You talk about "Western science"... Science is science. It isn't owned by any group.
"Their knowledge, like any form of science is dynamic" Is it really scientific to predict the weather based on the stars?
I guess the overall tone of the video felt sort of "anti-science" and that somehow indigenous groups somehow have a better understanding of climate science than climate scientists
Redpandaflying Science in its current understanding is built upon Old World (mostly European) philosophical traditions. There are other ways of knowing that offer equally helpful and valid knowledge.
Yeah. I get what they are saying. But the terms they use is a bit questionable.
So you're saying the inuit knew it before we knew it? what kind of a joke is that?
it took cupple centuries for colonizers to realise value of "indiginus"(actualy real americans).....good jom USA.....
lmao i love tax dollars going toward challenging the legitimacy of colonial settler states, beautiful
You’re having mic issues, picking up too much mouth sounds
This does make sense, maybe the communities, that have been there since the last ice age, can tell us more about our current climate change than today's scientists
Greed has More to do climate change
that reason there. They have been doing it for so long that they must be doing something right. That's the reason I practice human sacrifice every eclipse - hasn't failed to bring the sun back yet.
Talia keeps covering race and minority stuff...
Those people could see the effects every second, hour day year etc. One scientist could detect only a general view. The detalies of each zone are lost.
I don't think even indigenous communities can predict the weather from the stars and its not because of climate change...
Maybe not the stars themselves, but how they are seen helps predicting weather. The air and all that is in it can tell a thing or two about what's going on.
The stars can be used to track the seasons (and have, across the world, in most every culture). Combine that information with atmospheric clues and you can have and idea what the weather will be.
Well...Hot Mess is a climate change channel, but this particular video seemed to me to edge uncomfortably close to fatuous. Or perhaps that is too harsh a word, so maybe just silly.
"Indigenous communities have survived for thousands of years..." Indigenous and non-indigenous people have been adapting for thousands of years. Just because generations of people have inhabited the same land for a long time, doesn't give them some mystical insight. That's not scientific arrogance. Sure, it's better that the scientists work along indigenous communities and implore their knowledge of the area, but it sounds like their knowledge should have special privilege over rigorous science.
Generational knowledge is not mystical insight, and the point of the video is not elevating indigenous knowledge OVER Western science, but to take it seriously in the first place.
The main point comes at 2:03. And I disagree with that point. The unfortunate side effect of indigenous knowledge, scientifically speaking, is that much of the knowledge is mysterious, whether it be steeped in religious undertones, or some kind of intuitive relationship with nature. That guy might be right about the cloud formation foretelling a storm, but it if he says that he knows that because the grass speaks to him, it's not arrogance to dismiss it.
All I'm saying is that just because a group of people have lived some place for a long time, doesn't mean that science should disregard the scientific method in lieu of local knowledge.
Listen to the actual example given immediately where your time link is. The Inuit didn't claim to know about the sea ice because of some mystical connection -- they knew how thin it is because they travel on it all the time. Science is only good if you know what the question is and where to make the measurements.
And so what if there is some mystical language in the explanation, anyway? Maybe some of that has accumulated over the generations in some cases, but that doesn't mean there isn't something in the story to investigate. The people who have lived there for generations have observed things that scientists can investigate further.
I really think you're arguing against a point that's not there.
My main opposition is to the claim "Knowledge held by indigenous communities can show us things that science can't always detect." Now, if something is undetectable by science then how is it detectable? The story about sea ice is a good way of using indigenous knowledge to benefit science, but I don't see how indigenous knowledge can be put against scientific knowledge in the way the statement claims.
That's the point I'm arguing.
I think they mean that modern scientists can't detect. Like scientists use methods that are worse at detecting certain things than the indigenous methods.
indigenous people are disappearing / moving to the cities at an alarming rate, so much knowledge lost
it makes me happy that you dont call them indian or eskimo
Aren´t the English indigenous in Great Britian and Spanish indigenous in Spain?
There seem to be a lot of people in these comments confidently claiming that knowledge from your ancestors somehow transfers down to you. Can somebody explain to me how that isn't nonsense?
Everyone who sees this comment should send the link to this channel to all of your constituents. You only have to text 50409 and follow the directions.
Ps: it’s free.
How much liberal boilerplate talking points (imaginary axes to grind) can you pack in to one video? this is good that way.
3rd comment
This channel is very disappointing. You create _one_ video on the topic nuclear power and then refused to create any subsequent videos addressing advanced nuclear technologies.
"There's no official definition of indigenius"
Political correctness for a word that has a well known meaning and usage regarding peoples. OK.
can y'all speak as fast normal people. like srsly I have to speed these vids up atleast 1.5x it's not natural at all :(
*sigh* Kudos for trying to validate and empower historically marginalized communities. Nevertheless, you failed. Most, not all, of your statements about indigenous communities were a contemporary expression of the noble savage myth. All of your noble savage statements would have been better expressed as statements about the validity of oral history. We now know that oral traditions have the same accuracy as written traditions. This is a scientifically proven fact. If you had used science to validate the knowledge of the communities, you would not have had to use subtle forms of the appeal to authority fallacy.
Also, you overplayed your hand with twice using the absurd "thousands of years" lie to support the knowledge of the communities. Since the agricultural revolution, no culture has existed for thousands of years. But, if you want to assume that a culture has existed for thousands of years, a culture that has only existed for three hundred years almost certainly has the quantity of useful information as your mythical Methuselah cultures. The "Little Ice Age" was a reset button for every culture's knowledge of the environment, whether they had a writing system or not. And there have been dozens of regional changes in climate that take centuries to complete. No culture or knowledge-keeping body tracked climate changes that spanned centuries. Therefore, every significant climate shift (from the desertification fo the Sahara to the Medieval Warm Period) reset the local knowledge of climate. If any culture survives in harsh conditions for 200 years, that is a triumph. It's unnecessary and silly to claim that any culture has existed for thousands of years.
The lunatics and psychopaths who deny climate change are good at exploiting spurious arguments associated with climate change. I'm disappointed that this collaborative channel missed an opportunity to explain how climate studies should be interdisciplinary and that most scientists never went to university. I'm especially disappointed that you risked giving ammo to those people who excessively discount future costs and are driving us towards an apocalypse.