historically in the age of steam lots of kids was worried about traveling on steam trains so some writers gave them faces to help them feel better. they also have a sense of humanity and are different from each other
I always thought those faceless illustrations were just a way of saying, “By the way, this is a real engine from the real world, and not some character I made for this story. If you ever get the chance to see it, this is what it will look like, give or take a few changes in the paint job.” The reason why the other real-world engines have faces is because Thomas the Tank Engine really is, at it’s core, a fictional world that is realistically written and just happens to have machines with faces and personalities that match their stature. That’s the end of that. No magic, no sci-fi, just something that is accepted as part of life.
Victor Tanzig has a explanation along the lines of this: some engines when for the first time being fired up known as "the first firing" in which an engine gains a face but not all engines gain a face
I, personally, like to believe a theory that another creator (Victor tanzig) put down: that the faces spontaneously appear on specific engines after its started up directly after being built
Green water a sedative, seeing how a NFV has the same kind of sensory to humans it is a good thing we figured it out (my head cannon it was RLS the builder of Rocket who figured it out) Black water I don't like the concept of the final firing, but for those that are in pain it would be the only Humane thing. Rest in peace Adam.
I know your pain, it literally took months to make my own video on this subject because of how confusing it is. This was a great video dude, definitely keep em going. Btw, thanks for the mention🤙
Personally, I think the reason why there are real engines in the illustrations without faces was because Wilbert wanted to advertise railways like the Talyllyn and Bluebell to the reader. If they were illustrated with faces, then the reader might've mistaken them as just other characters and not real locomotives that they can visit in real life. Also, I think the way you would open their smokebox door is by grabbing their nose and pulling.
Me personally, I don't really think about it and just accept the fact the engines can talk. I do like your theory on this being a stylisted choice. Though whenever the question does come up and you try to think of an answer for it, it just ends up hurting your brain. Then again like with how Henry's overall isn't explained, Awdry never went into detail about sentience for the engines.
Exactly. As I said, the reader would picture Talyllyn, Adams & so on with faces when thinking about them as, realistically, it wouldn’t make sense for some to have faces & some not.
I think Awdry knew how to separate his fiction from reality, he enjoyed creating the world but never transitioned the two. Awdry also didn't stick solidly to rules. Like in Sad Story of Henry "Henry had no steam to answer, his fire had gone out." But later he does write engines talking without steam. Another inconsistent rule was engines not being able to control themselves like in Thomas Comes to Breakfast. There are other times where it seems engines can willingly whistle.
I personally think that the idea of them being alive in steam and them not having their faces when they are not in steam is what I would go with, as engines in the mainland are constantly shown to have faces wouldn't be a needless problem with it. Plus, it makes more sense for the engines' "insides" to be cleaned more easier.
I don't really think about it much, although there is one thing that has made me wonder: Nobody as far as I am aware has mentioned anything about _Toby and the Stout Gentleman,_ where the Fat Controller, his wife and their grandchildren meet Toby and Henrietta while on holiday in East Anglia. Toby is offended when Stephen asks if he is electric, but he later talks to Sir Topham, who makes him feel better and even says that he "knows how to speak to engines," therefore implying that not only Toby had a face before he came to Sodor, but he is also aware of other talking, sentient locomotives like himself existing.
Honestly, you really can't explain the Engines' faces without implying magic. Sodor may be a realistic place, but it's still not a *real* place, meaning things that are impossible by all logic, such as locomotives having faces and talking, can still happen there. Awdry may have not liked Magic Railroad if he was alive to see it, but it is the only piece of Thomas media that actually follows his rule of engines only having faces on Sodor, and that includes his Railway Series. Why does Toby have a face in "Toby and the Stout Gentleman"? He hadn't been to Sodor yet, and he still has a face. At the end of the day, if you don't want any holes, you're just going to have to accept that the engines have faces, there's some kind of unspoken magic that allows them to have faces, and this is normal in the Thomas universe, despite everything else being identical to our world, and that's that. The Railway Series isn't realistic fiction, it's very, very, very low fantasy.
I’ve ultimately said “fuck it” and come up with my own theory. The engines have faces because yes. Nobody’s figured out why, and in something I got from Tanzig and believe that ultimately it’s just random. Just about every Engine has a face, but with road vehicles it’s far more random. The face only goes as deep as the eyeballs and can be removed for maintenance needs. As for the doors? Those are typically on the side of the smokebox, though on engines where the smokebox and the face are in different spots the door is where it would traditionally be.
My headcannon, awdry just forgot some rules and this helps a lot. The faces on the engines are the same as the ones you’ll see at modern DOWT as they are almost animatronic like. It’s a version of history with much more advanced technology, and it was decided that putting faces on locomotives would help operations. It’s stupid but it’s like the only way to get around magic
They all have faces, the only reason some don’t in the illustrations is because they personally asked not to their faces seen so Awdry decided to have them illustrated without them. Basically its like when someone doesn’t want their face to be seen in a photo or something.
The faces are a separate part as depicted on Day Out With Thomas Events ( and yes they can be removed and locked into place with the smokebox handle ) . The noses are their smokebox lock and can be opened if you squeeze them. The engines can blush due to the heat that is collected on their face and released through their cheeks. Some engines don't have faces because they either wanted to be anonymous in the illustrations or simply weren't built with one.
My headcanon is that all engines have faces, not just the ones on Sodor. So Evening Star, Pendennis Castle, the Stirling Single, N&W 611, etc, they all have faces.
9:00 so you know like those long brooms for like fireplaces or chimneys, I like to think that’s what’s used to clean out the smoke box, and the engines tell the crew where to clean specifically
9:05, My theory for this, is that the lever to open the smoke box is in their mouth, where a human's uvula would be. I also think the way an engine talks is by sucking air through their smoke box into their mouth. Also, I like to think the engine's can sneeze most of the ashes out so they don't need the smoke box cleaned out often.
I believe in Theory 3. I find it the most stable answer, and the answer with the least amount of questioning. I believe that the engines don't have faces on the real Sodor. However, when Awdry (in-universe) chose to publish books about stories he'd heard about the engines on Sodor, it was decided to tell the stories using the engines themselves as it would be more entertaining to the readers. So, in my opinion, the stories and events are real, however, the way they are told has been changed to be more character-driven.
Personally, I agree with you and Sam (Taillamp). I like to think that a face just appears on the smokebox of an engine as soon as it is fitted, as it a split-second, and that it is made of an unknown mostly undestructable material. I say mostly, as characters could get black eyes like the Spiteful Brakevan. Even when the engine is scrapped, I think that since there is no other place to put the face, people would put them onto replica engines or rolling stock.
I agree with the end more than anything. They just...have faces. There's nothing more to it, and any engine that doesn't is a real one that they didn't give a face so a kid wouldn't be freaked out when they went to see the real thing and saw a black door. They're still very alive in the books, it's just a representation of what they're like to us in the real world. If you somehow stepped into the books' universe, their version of the RWS would give them faces and omit the "Skarloey isn't real" line.
My theory of how the engines have faces: engines that were fired up for the first time will gain their faces, some that has no faces are bc they were built differently
I personally believe that none of the engines actually have faces, and that they are simply being personified based on their individual mechanical and physical differences. An example of this; Edward is quite old compared to most other engines, so of course he's the wise one who knows what he's doing. James is the only one with bright red paint on the NWR (in the RWS) so he's personified as being vain. Henry broke down a lot early on, so people personified him as being sad and sickly. After Welsh coal was acquired and Henry could operate normally, that personality went away. Etc.
It’s not though. A collaboration I’ve done is More Facts on Thomas Lore which Taillamp Studios kindly came on for that video. If this video was a collaboration, then I’d have either someone accompanying me throughout the video, or I’d have all those who’ve created the theories on the video to talk about them.
My logic: The trains are living machines, plain and simple. Throughout the books and TV series this is made clear with descriptions of the mechanisms of locomotives time and time again. As to the faces? They are built onto the trains, and are the means by which said living locomotives and rolling stock express themselves. We see many a scrap locomotive in the classic TV series, and these are depicted without faces, so they are probably removed with ease.
What if custom building faces is a tradition on Sodor, and that's why some other engines don't have faces on the mainland. The reason why some non sudrian engines do have faces, is because they were inspired by sodors, tradition.
Two ideas I have the first one is that they have normal smokebox doors and ones with faces and they can be removed and changed this is to help with servicing them because they can tell if anything is wrong with them. my second one is a special paint that gets painted on to them that gives them a face this theory would work better in the case of the rolling stock and diesels
Honestly i like victor tanzig theory/head cannon where once a steam engine has been built and fired up for the first time it has a chance of being a faceless or non faceless engine As for my own/my headcannon faceless engines can still talk in a similar fashion to the faceless characters in TUGS like puffa, mighty moe, and big mickey As for the smokebox door i think its implied that the smokebox door is on the left or right side of the smokebox not where the face is
It is pretty well known that steam locomotives are one of those machines that behave almost like animals, many engine drivers remark that each engine have their own unique “personalities” as it were. Taking this and Wilbert’s rule into account, here’s my theory: The engines do indeed have faces on Sodor. For visiting engines, they gain a face as well. But when any of the engines, NWR-owned or not, venture outside of the island, their faces turn into smokebox doors. Even on the mainland, Sodor engines can still communicate with the mainland engines but through a different way. Perhaps they communicate through their exhaust sounds or the hisses of steam or maybe they talk with their whistles which is the most common human perception of “communication” between engines So why do the engines still have their faces when the leave Sodor? Or why some mainland engines have faces while others don’t? The illustrators took into account that some readers may not have been around any sentient engines before, so they illustrated the mainland engines with faces along with a balance of faceless engines to help the idea of sentient engines make more sense those readers (Yes I know it doesn’t solve all the problems and there’s still some flaws with this theory but that’s how I like to see it)
Very interesting. I personally don’t overthink it at all. The engines have faces because the engines have faces. Plain and simple. And their faces are not on hinges that can open up. If an engine wants their smoke box cleaned out the driver just sticks a broom down there funnel. And if they forget to they just sneeze it out. Anyway nice job.
One theory I have is a bit science fiction and based on the film Bedknobs & Broomsticks where a magician finds a spell to make animals talk. Suppose there was an engineer cum scienctist who discovered a formular to give machinery life and one day it got mixed in with the water treatment for the engines and they started to develop human characteristics
I honestly like Victor Tanzig's Non-faceless vehicle concept, some engines through a process like that of a human are given a life upon their first fire light or first firing. Akin to a AI getting struck by lightning and gaining true sentience, with the mind of a child but still alive. This gives Steam Engines the ability to drive themselves, why have a crew common sense. Though my version of NFV has divergent concepts (especially that a Neilson Box Tank was the first NFV) Victor really gives a good lore to the reason. The methods are still as mysterious as how we are alive, but as many a railroad man will tell you Steam has a life of its own, fire, water, earth, air. The fire sword of Alchemy, these forces were wrought into a creature that would change the course of history. Wish I knew the man's name who first said that because he was right, of all machines humanity has made we got life from steam, cinders and smoke.
For me, it is similar to your hypothesis at the end, and what Sam said, as well as what some other commenters have said: Images where engines don't have faces are supposed to be set in our world/what you would really see if you went to visit the Talyllyn or Bluebell Railways. If an engine DOES have a face, the image is set in the RWS universe, where machines with faces is just a commonly accepted thing that nobody questions anymore. It is not that Sodor is in a different dimension from the rest of the world, it is that we are seeing tbe Sodor Exists universe when engines have faces, and we are seeing an illustrated representation of our world when they don't.
I do like the stylisted theory. Though tbh, I would rather have the cleaning of their ashes happened like in the story "Henry's Sneeze" Instead of the crew opening up their smokebox door, the engine sneezes when the ashes piles up inside their smokebox. Yes I'd rather prefer the story where Henry's Fireman opens up His 'smokebox door' happened in a different way bcs i dont like the idea of their faces being openable like a door. This is just how I would like to think about it. Feel free to disagree because I know many will
My personal theory is that whilst It may look like to US that an engine doesn't have a face, to the actual sentient trains, they do. To us, it may look like Captain Baxter or Bluebell & Primrose don't have faces, to an engine, they do. They do definitely exist, it's just WE can't see them, but the engines can. You could probably poke a lot of holes in this theory, but it's what I stick to.
I kind of like Victor Tanzig's idea that theirs a 50/50 chance of an engine becoming alive when built, though i dont like the idea that they can move on their own. is why i love this fandom. Everyone has their own headcannon trying to get this series to work in a realistic setting.
My head canon is the metaphor theory but the stories still happened. But the drivers are the characters, so for let’s say… off the rails, the driver was a stuck up self important asshole that drove his engine into a ditch to not pull a goods train, as he didn’t think he should as he is a proper man with a proper engine. The engines having faces was a running joke between the driver and Wilbert overheard that and made the books. But how to explain that some have faces and some don’t? Wilbert never over heard their driver personality’s, so they don’t have faces. But what about the three diesels in stepney’s book? Wilbert needed them to have faces for the story so he made generic hot headed ones.
Me personally I believe in Victor tanzig theory about the first firing the reason why I believe in this theory the most is because it seems to make sense because it doesn't matter if you're on sodor or not well you get the engines can still come to life
I think within this universe when engines are first fired up/turned on for the face appears. I dont think its only on sodor because 1. Thats weird and I prefer consistency in fiction and 2. It ruins story opportunities and the idea of sodor engines interacting with those from the mainland and elsewhere. I think the faces exist and conform to whatever part theyre on. We see that when the part of the engine the face is on is damaged it can affect the face. Same when that part rusts. I think when the smokebox door opens or is taken off the face just goes with it. I really dont understand why it has to be anymore complicated then that..
I thought that the face is something like the personification of the soul of a engine or other transport, and when the engine is scrapped, the face disappears, which means that the soul has left the locomotive.
Q: How do engines with faces have their smokebox door opened? A: They open their mouths and let the driver/fireman open it as if their faces are behind the smokebox door, or they just open the smokebox door their selves
Personally, I don’t worry much about the faces and faceless engines theories. However, I do believe the faces are part of the smokebox door to an extent
The best answer I think is that none of the engines on Sodor have faces, they were just given ones in the illustrations. I think there’s bits in the IOS book where he mentions that certain things like the footbridge at Arlesburgh were illustrated in the wrong place intentionally, so it’s fair enough to assume that the illustrations aren’t a 1 to 1 analog for the actual events on sodor, and can be embellished for the needs of the story. You just have to go that extra step further and take it that the faces would be there as a stand in for all of the things that typically personify a steam engine that can’t be conveyed through a print medium.
The idea of engines with faces is nothing new, they've been featured plenty of children's books. In the midst of Railwaymania in the 1840s and 50s, newspapers and political cartoons featured illustrations of engines with faces that look absolutely terrifying.
i personally just say all locos do have faces, every single one, my idea is like they have chalk like ones, I've edited images to have that style, I WOULD show you but i cant show images here so heude
Heres a theory that makes a lot more sense: It's just like Awdry says, the trains have faces on Sodor, but dont elsewhere. However, the books do indeed exist in the books, as shown by advertisements at knapford in Thomas & the Gaurd and the existence of the thin and fat clergymen. So, the illustrators of these books in universe want to make it simpler to follow for kids, and draw the faces on all the time, except when talking about engines that arent characters like primrose, bluebell, adams, etc.
I have 3 Theory Theory 1: getting an face is a rare thing that an engine get an face and an high chance of them getting is putting into more love of it Theory 2: maybe after someone died they have 3 after life going to heaven, going to hell or become an engine Theory 3: engine who that came on sodor always have an face because it was there destiny to come to sodor
In my Thomasverse, Sodor gives them life. When an engine is built, if it's Sodor bound, it's given a name and something invisible flows from Sodor and life happens. They can't speak until first steamed, though. That comes from a fanfic I read.
Like you said. The faces simply exist, and how faceless engines work, it's just a chance, basicly there's 90 percent chance of an engine having a face, and 10 percent chance it dosent, also they can move themselves, why? Because they are the machine. And in stories, they can feel pain, so yea.
It's one of those things you don't think too much about, because their really is no logic to it. I personally believe that all the engines in The Railway Series world have faces, but the illustrations lacked faces, because they were paying homage to the real life engines.
I thought that the engines without faces on the books are just ilustrations of the REAL engines and how they look in our universe, without faces of course.
People way overthink this topic, while also side-stepping a lot of important details. Here is my perspective: The engines are alive, no organs or blood or any bullshit like that, but they're alive. I personally believe that they aren't made with faces and the faces just appear when their construction has been completed (yes that is slightly magical in nature, but it's more believable than people slapping facing on machines and just makes more sense). The majority of steam engines are sentient, as many of the engines who visit other railways mention what the engines on other railways were like, Stepney even detailing the specific personalities of his fellow Bluebells. The illustrations depicting them as faceless does not actually mean they're faceless in-universe. The reason many illustrations depict specific engines as faceless is so that, if the reader ever goes to see one of these engines, they won't be disappointed when they see them without a face. And if Awdry did indeed say "not all the illustrations are 100% accurate", that would support this idea that the engines are faceless for stylistic reasons and also to keep the readers immersed. Also the reason why Awdry states why faces are allowable on Sodor in the books, as people can't actually visit Sodor but they can visit England and see engines there. He didn't want their depictions in the books to not be consistent with how they look in real life. But as he says, that's only in the books. In general, his universe as a whole has engines with faces. And Awdry not adding faces to his models was perhaps mainly for stylistic reasons too, as making faces that look good for all his engines would be tedious and make engines without faces stick out like sore thumbs. Also, engines have to be sentient as they're shown to have some control, albeit very minor, over themselves. Like Thomas barely slipping open his regulator in order to go to breakfast, engines and trucks alike jolting or holding back, and etc. Of course, their degree of control is obviously extremely limited and they still can't really move themselves for the most part, but still not something they could do if they were strictly imaginary. And something I thought up not too long ago when it came to opening smokeboxes is the idea that the crank to turn them is within an engine's nose and the only way to open them is to just reach in there and just turn the handle. Engines have some pretty big noses so could likely fit a smaller smokebox handle in there.
Personally, I think it makes more sense to say that it might work by saying it’s like a random change if an engine is alive, alive without a face or alive with a face, it can also explain why the coaches and some trucks can talk without faces. Compare it to the change of a kid being born with a bot or a girl in real life, also the engines don’t have lungs or any bullshit like that they have the normal components of steam locomotives, like they would breath through there funnels it maybe noses that lead into there smoke box. Not a perfect theory in anyway but it works, or maybe it’s a soul from a person who was Alive at one point and then who was reincarnated into a loco or trucks, Victor tanzig goes in depth in one of his older video so you can go watch that somewhere else
I genuinely belive they do not have faces AT ALL. The engones having faces ia the drivers, firemen and railway workers personifying the engines in their stories of how they worked with them.
Would love to know what you think of Victor tenzigs explanation of it for the stories of Sodor that it just happens when they are fired up for the first time or moved for the first time and that it's a random occurrence
I both love & hate it. It’s an interesting way to look at it honestly, considering some stock are & aren’t alive in TSOS. But at the same time, & this is a point on the main series, it’s inconsistent having some alive & some not. Victor’s take of it being 50/50 is a very clear answer to that inconsistency
I both love & hate it. It’s an interesting way to look at it honestly, considering some stock are & aren’t alive in TSOS. But at the same time, & this is a point on the main series, it’s inconsistent having some alive & some not. Victor’s take of it being 50/50 is a very clear answer to that inconsistency
I think Oliver got his face on his escape because, when the story 8 famous engines was made. In the television series Oliver would be seen behind Donald/Douglas still being one of the 'other railway' engines
I like to think there's a more religious angle to the engine faces. So, the Bible says that God created us in his image. I simply think, then, that humans created engines and machines in THEIR image. Not every machine obviously (STH's car and certain other engines are faceless), but when you look at it like that it opens up some cool possibilities. Maybe some people build engine faces for a living, but it's not an easy job to find or have, so only some engines have faces. (Obviously, Sir Nigel Gresley and the engineers at Crewe know this trade) Maybe somebody somewhere designed an engine's face after a beloved relative or friend. Seeing as Awdry was Christian, I think a more spiritually aligned theory makes a lot of sense.
Plus, what Wilbert Audrey said, doesn’t really make any sense because when Thomas went to York, there was a lot more engines that had faces the only engine didn’t have a face was Stevenson’s white rocket and that was it
My rule is that engines can be “born” with a face while others aren’t It’s basically a 50-50 chance whether they’ll be alive or not However the illustrations that depict faceless engines aren’t factual (those engines do have faces) Edit: [or maybe it’s a Muppets situation]
Hey! I know that this is just adding more wood to the already massive fire, but, I think that it’s plane and simple, some engines have faces the day that they are built, and some don’t (Victor Tanzig came up with this theory but I digress) Just because some of the engines, like the bluebell engine, don’t have faces, doesn’t mean that Sodor can’t be a real place, the theory is not so much magic as it is logic, it’s like birth, some people have miscarriages and some don’t, I think the “Non-faceless” engines are real “births” and the “Faceless” engines are miscarriages
Personally I just justify it by saying some engines have faces and some don’t. It’s in the same way that there are some trucks that are alive and some that aren’t.
I personally like to think that when Gold dust is spread on an engine smokebox door, when the first firing happens, A face slowly forms. A special lever is in the cab of non-faceless engines to switch between human or engine control, so that means it’s a business decision whether the engines have faces or not. I won’t go any further on The decision of an engine having faces or not otherwise will be here all day. But other than that the engines are normal.
![The RWS iceberg Explained [Part 1]](/img/1.gif)
Bro I just like trains with faces.
same
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historically in the age of steam lots of kids was worried about traveling on steam trains so some writers gave them faces to help them feel better.
they also have a sense of humanity and are different from each other
I always thought those faceless illustrations were just a way of saying, “By the way, this is a real engine from the real world, and not some character I made for this story. If you ever get the chance to see it, this is what it will look like, give or take a few changes in the paint job.”
The reason why the other real-world engines have faces is because Thomas the Tank Engine really is, at it’s core, a fictional world that is realistically written and just happens to have machines with faces and personalities that match their stature. That’s the end of that. No magic, no sci-fi, just something that is accepted as part of life.
Yes, that's the point
Victor Tanzig has a explanation along the lines of this: some engines when for the first time being fired up known as "the first firing" in which an engine gains a face but not all engines gain a face
I, personally, like to believe a theory that another creator (Victor tanzig) put down: that the faces spontaneously appear on specific engines after its started up directly after being built
The first firing
He also have some types of water called green water and black water and how are they made
Green water a sedative, seeing how a NFV has the same kind of sensory to humans it is a good thing we figured it out (my head cannon it was RLS the builder of Rocket who figured it out)
Black water I don't like the concept of the final firing, but for those that are in pain it would be the only Humane thing. Rest in peace Adam.
I know your pain, it literally took months to make my own video on this subject because of how confusing it is.
This was a great video dude, definitely keep em going.
Btw, thanks for the mention🤙
Personally, I think the reason why there are real engines in the illustrations without faces was because Wilbert wanted to advertise railways like the Talyllyn and Bluebell to the reader. If they were illustrated with faces, then the reader might've mistaken them as just other characters and not real locomotives that they can visit in real life.
Also, I think the way you would open their smokebox door is by grabbing their nose and pulling.
Me personally, I don't really think about it and just accept the fact the engines can talk. I do like your theory on this being a stylisted choice. Though whenever the question does come up and you try to think of an answer for it, it just ends up hurting your brain. Then again like with how Henry's overall isn't explained, Awdry never went into detail about sentience for the engines.
Exactly. As I said, the reader would picture Talyllyn, Adams & so on with faces when thinking about them as, realistically, it wouldn’t make sense for some to have faces & some not.
I think Awdry knew how to separate his fiction from reality, he enjoyed creating the world but never transitioned the two. Awdry also didn't stick solidly to rules. Like in Sad Story of Henry "Henry had no steam to answer, his fire had gone out." But later he does write engines talking without steam. Another inconsistent rule was engines not being able to control themselves like in Thomas Comes to Breakfast. There are other times where it seems engines can willingly whistle.
I personally think that the idea of them being alive in steam and them not having their faces when they are not in steam is what I would go with, as engines in the mainland are constantly shown to have faces wouldn't be a needless problem with it. Plus, it makes more sense for the engines' "insides" to be cleaned more easier.
Maybe some vehicles simply just are alive and some are not
Tru
I don't really think about it much, although there is one thing that has made me wonder:
Nobody as far as I am aware has mentioned anything about _Toby and the Stout Gentleman,_ where the Fat Controller, his wife and their grandchildren meet Toby and Henrietta while on holiday in East Anglia. Toby is offended when Stephen asks if he is electric, but he later talks to Sir Topham, who makes him feel better and even says that he "knows how to speak to engines," therefore implying that not only Toby had a face before he came to Sodor, but he is also aware of other talking, sentient locomotives like himself existing.
Honestly, you really can't explain the Engines' faces without implying magic. Sodor may be a realistic place, but it's still not a *real* place, meaning things that are impossible by all logic, such as locomotives having faces and talking, can still happen there. Awdry may have not liked Magic Railroad if he was alive to see it, but it is the only piece of Thomas media that actually follows his rule of engines only having faces on Sodor, and that includes his Railway Series. Why does Toby have a face in "Toby and the Stout Gentleman"? He hadn't been to Sodor yet, and he still has a face. At the end of the day, if you don't want any holes, you're just going to have to accept that the engines have faces, there's some kind of unspoken magic that allows them to have faces, and this is normal in the Thomas universe, despite everything else being identical to our world, and that's that. The Railway Series isn't realistic fiction, it's very, very, very low fantasy.
But Thomas has a face while on Muffle Mountain.
MAGIC RAILROAD DOESN’T MATTER IN RAILWAY SERIES TERMS
Shh, you've offended him
I’ve ultimately said “fuck it” and come up with my own theory. The engines have faces because yes. Nobody’s figured out why, and in something I got from Tanzig and believe that ultimately it’s just random. Just about every Engine has a face, but with road vehicles it’s far more random. The face only goes as deep as the eyeballs and can be removed for maintenance needs. As for the doors? Those are typically on the side of the smokebox, though on engines where the smokebox and the face are in different spots the door is where it would traditionally be.
My headcannon, awdry just forgot some rules and this helps a lot. The faces on the engines are the same as the ones you’ll see at modern DOWT as they are almost animatronic like. It’s a version of history with much more advanced technology, and it was decided that putting faces on locomotives would help operations. It’s stupid but it’s like the only way to get around magic
They all have faces, the only reason some don’t in the illustrations is because they personally asked not to their faces seen so Awdry decided to have them illustrated without them. Basically its like when someone doesn’t want their face to be seen in a photo or something.
Honestly I personally believe in victor tanzig’s “the first firing” theory .
The faces are a separate part as depicted on Day Out With Thomas Events ( and yes they can be removed and locked into place with the smokebox handle ) . The noses are their smokebox lock and can be opened if you squeeze them. The engines can blush due to the heat that is collected on their face and released through their cheeks. Some engines don't have faces because they either wanted to be anonymous in the illustrations or simply weren't built with one.
My headcanon is that all engines have faces, not just the ones on Sodor. So Evening Star, Pendennis Castle, the Stirling Single, N&W 611, etc, they all have faces.
9:00 so you know like those long brooms for like fireplaces or chimneys, I like to think that’s what’s used to clean out the smoke box, and the engines tell the crew where to clean specifically
Ye i think that how would work and i agree
9:05, My theory for this, is that the lever to open the smoke box is in their mouth, where a human's uvula would be. I also think the way an engine talks is by sucking air through their smoke box into their mouth. Also, I like to think the engine's can sneeze most of the ashes out so they don't need the smoke box cleaned out often.
Lol gross
I believe in Theory 3.
I find it the most stable answer, and the answer with the least amount of questioning.
I believe that the engines don't have faces on the real Sodor. However, when Awdry (in-universe) chose to publish books about stories he'd heard about the engines on Sodor, it was decided to tell the stories using the engines themselves as it would be more entertaining to the readers. So, in my opinion, the stories and events are real, however, the way they are told has been changed to be more character-driven.
Personally, I agree with you and Sam (Taillamp). I like to think that a face just appears on the smokebox of an engine as soon as it is fitted, as it a split-second, and that it is made of an unknown mostly undestructable material. I say mostly, as characters could get black eyes like the Spiteful Brakevan. Even when the engine is scrapped, I think that since there is no other place to put the face, people would put them onto replica engines or rolling stock.
I agree with the end more than anything. They just...have faces. There's nothing more to it, and any engine that doesn't is a real one that they didn't give a face so a kid wouldn't be freaked out when they went to see the real thing and saw a black door. They're still very alive in the books, it's just a representation of what they're like to us in the real world. If you somehow stepped into the books' universe, their version of the RWS would give them faces and omit the "Skarloey isn't real" line.
My theory of how the engines have faces: engines that were fired up for the first time will gain their faces, some that has no faces are bc they were built differently
I personally believe that none of the engines actually have faces, and that they are simply being personified based on their individual mechanical and physical differences. An example of this; Edward is quite old compared to most other engines, so of course he's the wise one who knows what he's doing. James is the only one with bright red paint on the NWR (in the RWS) so he's personified as being vain. Henry broke down a lot early on, so people personified him as being sad and sickly. After Welsh coal was acquired and Henry could operate normally, that personality went away. Etc.
Except in the tv series where his personality changes after season 7. I miss stubborn, stuck up Henry with a personality
You aren't a thomas fan without getting scarred from seeing the horrifying shed 17 video...
..seriously why does that fucking thing exist
The greatest collaboration of creators in 1 vid
This isn’t a collaboration
@@ScrapyardStudios me:🤦
It’s not though. A collaboration I’ve done is More Facts on Thomas Lore which Taillamp Studios kindly came on for that video. If this video was a collaboration, then I’d have either someone accompanying me throughout the video, or I’d have all those who’ve created the theories on the video to talk about them.
Calling TurtlesandThomas “Shit Keanu Reaves” is hilarious.
he’s more of a dollar tree brand joker
That was the joke
I like a train with faces too
The angry grandpa theme song begins his video and this even a real
That’s a song from Wallace & Gromit you hear in the beginning
My logic: The trains are living machines, plain and simple. Throughout the books and TV series this is made clear with descriptions of the mechanisms of locomotives time and time again. As to the faces? They are built onto the trains, and are the means by which said living locomotives and rolling stock express themselves. We see many a scrap locomotive in the classic TV series, and these are depicted without faces, so they are probably removed with ease.
I just like Victor Tanzig's explanation, some engines have faces and some don't
What if custom building faces is a tradition on Sodor, and that's why some other engines don't have faces on the mainland. The reason why some non sudrian engines do have faces, is because they were inspired by sodors, tradition.
Two ideas I have
the first one is that they have normal smokebox doors and ones with faces and they can be removed and changed this is to help with servicing them because they can tell if anything is wrong with them.
my second one is a special paint that gets painted on to them that gives them a face this theory would work better in the case of the rolling stock and diesels
Honestly i like victor tanzig theory/head cannon where once a steam engine has been built and fired up for the first time it has a chance of being a faceless or non faceless engine
As for my own/my headcannon faceless engines can still talk in a similar fashion to the faceless characters in TUGS like puffa, mighty moe, and big mickey
As for the smokebox door i think its implied that the smokebox door is on the left or right side of the smokebox not where the face is
It is pretty well known that steam locomotives are one of those machines that behave almost like animals, many engine drivers remark that each engine have their own unique “personalities” as it were. Taking this and Wilbert’s rule into account, here’s my theory:
The engines do indeed have faces on Sodor. For visiting engines, they gain a face as well. But when any of the engines, NWR-owned or not, venture outside of the island, their faces turn into smokebox doors. Even on the mainland, Sodor engines can still communicate with the mainland engines but through a different way. Perhaps they communicate through their exhaust sounds or the hisses of steam or maybe they talk with their whistles which is the most common human perception of “communication” between engines
So why do the engines still have their faces when the leave Sodor? Or why some mainland engines have faces while others don’t? The illustrators took into account that some readers may not have been around any sentient engines before, so they illustrated the mainland engines with faces along with a balance of faceless engines to help the idea of sentient engines make more sense those readers
(Yes I know it doesn’t solve all the problems and there’s still some flaws with this theory but that’s how I like to see it)
Very interesting. I personally don’t overthink it at all. The engines have faces because the engines have faces. Plain and simple. And their faces are not on hinges that can open up. If an engine wants their smoke box cleaned out the driver just sticks a broom down there funnel. And if they forget to they just sneeze it out. Anyway nice job.
In the show it says that Oliver is "in a far away place ON SODOR!"
I'd thought that the faces *were* the face plate. Henry changed a whole f*cking boiler for heavenssakes
His theory really took it at face value.
Ayyy
@@ScrapyardStudios"VINE BOOM*+*AIRHORN*
So my theory is that, the engine comes to sodor and is sent to the steam works and gets a face on it
One theory I have is a bit science fiction and based on the film Bedknobs & Broomsticks where a magician finds a spell to make animals talk. Suppose there was an engineer cum scienctist who discovered a formular to give machinery life and one day it got mixed in with the water treatment for the engines and they started to develop human characteristics
I honestly like Victor Tanzig's Non-faceless vehicle concept, some engines through a process like that of a human are given a life upon their first fire light or first firing. Akin to a AI getting struck by lightning and gaining true sentience, with the mind of a child but still alive.
This gives Steam Engines the ability to drive themselves, why have a crew common sense. Though my version of NFV has divergent concepts (especially that a Neilson Box Tank was the first NFV) Victor really gives a good lore to the reason. The methods are still as mysterious as how we are alive, but as many a railroad man will tell you Steam has a life of its own, fire, water, earth, air. The fire sword of Alchemy, these forces were wrought into a creature that would change the course of history.
Wish I knew the man's name who first said that because he was right, of all machines humanity has made we got life from steam, cinders and smoke.
For me, it is similar to your hypothesis at the end, and what Sam said, as well as what some other commenters have said:
Images where engines don't have faces are supposed to be set in our world/what you would really see if you went to visit the Talyllyn or Bluebell Railways. If an engine DOES have a face, the image is set in the RWS universe, where machines with faces is just a commonly accepted thing that nobody questions anymore.
It is not that Sodor is in a different dimension from the rest of the world, it is that we are seeing tbe Sodor Exists universe when engines have faces, and we are seeing an illustrated representation of our world when they don't.
Some parts may have been sourced from sodor when the engines where being built
I do like the stylisted theory. Though tbh, I would rather have the cleaning of their ashes happened like in the story "Henry's Sneeze"
Instead of the crew opening up their smokebox door, the engine sneezes when the ashes piles up inside their smokebox. Yes I'd rather prefer the story where Henry's Fireman opens up His 'smokebox door' happened in a different way bcs i dont like the idea of their faces being openable like a door. This is just how I would like to think about it. Feel free to disagree because I know many will
9:07 Favourite part lmao
My personal theory is that whilst It may look like to US that an engine doesn't have a face, to the actual sentient trains, they do. To us, it may look like Captain Baxter or Bluebell & Primrose don't have faces, to an engine, they do. They do definitely exist, it's just WE can't see them, but the engines can. You could probably poke a lot of holes in this theory, but it's what I stick to.
9:04 Cursed Theory: There's no Smokebox door, they just Open their mouths.
I kind of like Victor Tanzig's idea that theirs a 50/50 chance of an engine becoming alive when built, though i dont like the idea that they can move on their own. is why i love this fandom. Everyone has their own headcannon trying to get this series to work in a realistic setting.
I both love & hate that about Tanzig
@@ScrapyardStudios Yeah is cannon his neat but his other content is like wtf
I just don't think about it, saves a lot of headaches
My head canon is the metaphor theory but the stories still happened. But the drivers are the characters, so for let’s say… off the rails, the driver was a stuck up self important asshole that drove his engine into a ditch to not pull a goods train, as he didn’t think he should as he is a proper man with a proper engine. The engines having faces was a running joke between the driver and Wilbert overheard that and made the books. But how to explain that some have faces and some don’t? Wilbert never over heard their driver personality’s, so they don’t have faces. But what about the three diesels in stepney’s book? Wilbert needed them to have faces for the story so he made generic hot headed ones.
Me personally I believe in Victor tanzig theory about the first firing the reason why I believe in this theory the most is because it seems to make sense because it doesn't matter if you're on sodor or not well you get the engines can still come to life
I think within this universe when engines are first fired up/turned on for the face appears. I dont think its only on sodor because 1. Thats weird and I prefer consistency in fiction and 2. It ruins story opportunities and the idea of sodor engines interacting with those from the mainland and elsewhere. I think the faces exist and conform to whatever part theyre on. We see that when the part of the engine the face is on is damaged it can affect the face. Same when that part rusts. I think when the smokebox door opens or is taken off the face just goes with it. I really dont understand why it has to be anymore complicated then that..
yeah,your RIGHT!!
I thought that the face is something like the personification of the soul of a engine or other transport, and when the engine is scrapped, the face disappears, which means that the soul has left the locomotive.
Q: How do engines with faces have their smokebox door opened?
A: They open their mouths and let the driver/fireman open it as if their faces are behind the smokebox door, or they just open the smokebox door their selves
Personally, I don’t worry much about the faces and faceless engines theories. However, I do believe the faces are part of the smokebox door to an extent
I think Victor Tanzig did the whole face thing. Some have faces, others don’t and it’s a whole chance thing with in-universe theories
I like to think the faces just apear at random its like a 50/50 or so
The best answer I think is that none of the engines on Sodor have faces, they were just given ones in the illustrations. I think there’s bits in the IOS book where he mentions that certain things like the footbridge at Arlesburgh were illustrated in the wrong place intentionally, so it’s fair enough to assume that the illustrations aren’t a 1 to 1 analog for the actual events on sodor, and can be embellished for the needs of the story. You just have to go that extra step further and take it that the faces would be there as a stand in for all of the things that typically personify a steam engine that can’t be conveyed through a print medium.
Do you know what page it says that in IOS? There’s a PDF online for reference
@@ScrapyardStudios page 87 it looks like, but it was actually about the transfer gantry not the footbridge lol
The idea of engines with faces is nothing new, they've been featured plenty of children's books. In the midst of Railwaymania in the 1840s and 50s, newspapers and political cartoons featured illustrations of engines with faces that look absolutely terrifying.
i personally just say all locos do have faces, every single one, my idea is like they have chalk like ones, I've edited images to have that style, I WOULD show you but i cant show images here so heude
Heres a theory that makes a lot more sense:
It's just like Awdry says, the trains have faces on Sodor, but dont elsewhere. However, the books do indeed exist in the books, as shown by advertisements at knapford in Thomas & the Gaurd and the existence of the thin and fat clergymen. So, the illustrators of these books in universe want to make it simpler to follow for kids, and draw the faces on all the time, except when talking about engines that arent characters like primrose, bluebell, adams, etc.
Jesus it is counfousing and i just like trains, with faces man
I have 3 Theory
Theory 1: getting an face is a rare thing that an engine get an face and an high chance of them getting is putting into more love of it
Theory 2: maybe after someone died they have 3 after life going to heaven, going to hell or become an engine
Theory 3: engine who that came on sodor always have an face because it was there destiny to come to sodor
In my Thomasverse, Sodor gives them life. When an engine is built, if it's Sodor bound, it's given a name and something invisible flows from Sodor and life happens. They can't speak until first steamed, though. That comes from a fanfic I read.
My theory is some engines are built and a face appears and some don’t it still doesn’t say how some faceless engines can talk but I still stick with
Like you said. The faces simply exist, and how faceless engines work, it's just a chance, basicly there's 90 percent chance of an engine having a face, and 10 percent chance it dosent, also they can move themselves, why? Because they are the machine. And in stories, they can feel pain, so yea.
i honestly agree with your theory
1:47 here let me help you with that one, just picture it as a class 20 your welcome.
It's one of those things you don't think too much about, because their really is no logic to it. I personally believe that all the engines in The Railway Series world have faces, but the illustrations lacked faces, because they were paying homage to the real life engines.
I thought that the engines without faces on the books are just ilustrations of the REAL engines and how they look in our universe, without faces of course.
I would like to think that there's both smokebox and mesh face engines all around England, hell even around the world.
People way overthink this topic, while also side-stepping a lot of important details. Here is my perspective:
The engines are alive, no organs or blood or any bullshit like that, but they're alive. I personally believe that they aren't made with faces and the faces just appear when their construction has been completed (yes that is slightly magical in nature, but it's more believable than people slapping facing on machines and just makes more sense).
The majority of steam engines are sentient, as many of the engines who visit other railways mention what the engines on other railways were like, Stepney even detailing the specific personalities of his fellow Bluebells. The illustrations depicting them as faceless does not actually mean they're faceless in-universe. The reason many illustrations depict specific engines as faceless is so that, if the reader ever goes to see one of these engines, they won't be disappointed when they see them without a face.
And if Awdry did indeed say "not all the illustrations are 100% accurate", that would support this idea that the engines are faceless for stylistic reasons and also to keep the readers immersed. Also the reason why Awdry states why faces are allowable on Sodor in the books, as people can't actually visit Sodor but they can visit England and see engines there. He didn't want their depictions in the books to not be consistent with how they look in real life. But as he says, that's only in the books. In general, his universe as a whole has engines with faces.
And Awdry not adding faces to his models was perhaps mainly for stylistic reasons too, as making faces that look good for all his engines would be tedious and make engines without faces stick out like sore thumbs.
Also, engines have to be sentient as they're shown to have some control, albeit very minor, over themselves. Like Thomas barely slipping open his regulator in order to go to breakfast, engines and trucks alike jolting or holding back, and etc. Of course, their degree of control is obviously extremely limited and they still can't really move themselves for the most part, but still not something they could do if they were strictly imaginary.
And something I thought up not too long ago when it came to opening smokeboxes is the idea that the crank to turn them is within an engine's nose and the only way to open them is to just reach in there and just turn the handle. Engines have some pretty big noses so could likely fit a smaller smokebox handle in there.
Personally, I think it makes more sense to say that it might work by saying it’s like a random change if an engine is alive, alive without a face or alive with a face, it can also explain why the coaches and some trucks can talk without faces. Compare it to the change of a kid being born with a bot or a girl in real life, also the engines don’t have lungs or any bullshit like that they have the normal components of steam locomotives, like they would breath through there funnels it maybe noses that lead into there smoke box. Not a perfect theory in anyway but it works, or maybe it’s a soul from a person who was Alive at one point and then who was reincarnated into a loco or trucks, Victor tanzig goes in depth in one of his older video so you can go watch that somewhere else
I completely agree
Victor Tanzig isn’t canon
@@ScrapyardStudios well, its just a theory.
A GAAAAME THEORYYYY
@@ScrapyardStudios thats a shite jook.
The most realistic answer is it’s just a metaphor. And they are just storiesz
morral of the story:
F*ck, ill just accept it lmao
I genuinely belive they do not have faces AT ALL. The engones having faces ia the drivers, firemen and railway workers personifying the engines in their stories of how they worked with them.
Would love to know what you think of Victor tenzigs explanation of it for the stories of Sodor that it just happens when they are fired up for the first time or moved for the first time and that it's a random occurrence
I both love & hate it. It’s an interesting way to look at it honestly, considering some stock are & aren’t alive in TSOS. But at the same time, & this is a point on the main series, it’s inconsistent having some alive & some not. Victor’s take of it being 50/50 is a very clear answer to that inconsistency
I both love & hate it. It’s an interesting way to look at it honestly, considering some stock are & aren’t alive in TSOS. But at the same time, & this is a point on the main series, it’s inconsistent having some alive & some not. Victor’s take of it being 50/50 is a very clear answer to that inconsistency
Engines that visit gain faces, but only engines purchased and owned by the fat controller keep the faces when leaving.
I think it's just random to trains with face's to trains without faces but can still talk to just normal trains
I think Oliver got his face on his escape because, when the story 8 famous engines was made. In the television series Oliver would be seen behind Donald/Douglas still being one of the 'other railway' engines
TV Series doesn’t apply to Railway Series canon
@@ScrapyardStudios oh
My favourite theory regarding the faces, and all that is Victor Tanzig's one, wich he explains in one of his Sodor Specials .
This is my answer: its the builders and the designer of each railway works in the uk decid if the engine can have faces or not
And they can also decide if some of the engines of the class that they are producing can have faces and some of them cannot
Also the engines do still have the steam engine boiler tubes and diesels have cogs but they still have all the organs and things
I like Victor tanzig Idea about the faces it is a good idea
I like to think there's a more religious angle to the engine faces. So, the Bible says that God created us in his image. I simply think, then, that humans created engines and machines in THEIR image. Not every machine obviously (STH's car and certain other engines are faceless), but when you look at it like that it opens up some cool possibilities.
Maybe some people build engine faces for a living, but it's not an easy job to find or have, so only some engines have faces. (Obviously, Sir Nigel Gresley and the engineers at Crewe know this trade) Maybe somebody somewhere designed an engine's face after a beloved relative or friend.
Seeing as Awdry was Christian, I think a more spiritually aligned theory makes a lot of sense.
Plus, what Wilbert Audrey said, doesn’t really make any sense because when Thomas went to York, there was a lot more engines that had faces the only engine didn’t have a face was Stevenson’s white rocket and that was it
That’s a Chris Awdry thing tbf, but I get what you’re saying
My rule is that engines can be “born” with a face while others aren’t
It’s basically a 50-50 chance whether they’ll be alive or not
However the illustrations that depict faceless engines aren’t factual (those engines do have faces)
Edit: [or maybe it’s a Muppets situation]
So for the metaphor, i’m Pretty sure somebody already said this, but how did douglas stay in that case?
I personally believe that all engines have faces
Hey! I know that this is just adding more wood to the already massive fire, but, I think that it’s plane and simple, some engines have faces the day that they are built, and some don’t (Victor Tanzig came up with this theory but I digress) Just because some of the engines, like the bluebell engine, don’t have faces, doesn’t mean that Sodor can’t be a real place, the theory is not so much magic as it is logic, it’s like birth, some people have miscarriages and some don’t, I think the “Non-faceless” engines are real “births” and the “Faceless” engines are miscarriages
I think to access the fire tubes to clean them you press the nose like a button and they open up
That’s just weird
@@ScrapyardStudios that's the only thing I could think of if someone did have to access the fire tubes
& to be fair, they are machines sooooo
Personally I just justify it by saying some engines have faces and some don’t. It’s in the same way that there are some trucks that are alive and some that aren’t.
I just came to know why the trains in thomas the tank engine has faces
Victor tazig theory bullet proof
So do the choo choos inhale oxygen or not
Salami
I think the creators of the engines have maked robot faces and then they removed the smoke box door
I personally like to think that when Gold dust is spread on an engine smokebox door, when the first firing happens, A face slowly forms. A special lever is in the cab of non-faceless engines to switch between human or engine control, so that means it’s a business decision whether the engines have faces or not. I won’t go any further on The decision of an engine having faces or not otherwise will be here all day. But other than that the engines are normal.
What did I say in the video?
@@ScrapyardStudios oh sorry I get it now.