Let me know in the comments if you liked this style of video !! I have a subreddit now ! Socials& links ::: linktr.ee/icky Thank u to the editor of this vid!! : www.asheredits...
Yup as a cis guy can confirm I’m still cis after watching ickies videos lol and love them because they help me better learn about and empathize with my trans friends and their experiences
congrats on your transition progress! as a non binary person, both estrogen and testosterone seem inadequate. my transition will be performed with coke :3 (in case its not clear very very much /j)
I’m a trans woman and I do more masculine things. I tend to wear more gender neutral clothes (I don’t like skirts anymore), I still tend to sit “like a guy” and I still like lots of the “masculine” things I liked before. I just see myself as a tomboy, because there’s nothing stopping a woman from presenting that way. These are just behaviors, I try not to see them as gendered
I know it should be a perfectly logical conclusion that trans women can be tomboys without having to identify as non-binary, but ngl it's still reassuring to see sentiments like yours T_T ... I recently saw another trans woman say she's a tomboy and it feels relieving to me, like "oh finally, a good way to describe myself" but also like I'm not alone thank you ❤
A podcast with both Icky and f1nn5ster, sometimes having various guests, would probably be a great idea. A long time ago f1nn5ster made a few interviews with a few femboys/trans people (iirc just two, but still?) and my impression is that they were very well done. I think both Icky and f1nn5ster would be great potcast hosts.
To F1nns point about “faking it”, we preform the norms of our assigned gender too, in many cases. Talk to trans women and non binary AMAB people about how hard they tried to preform masculinity to fit in, it’s wild.
I am mute due to cerebral palsy. I’ve always been unable to speak. I’m also MTF. A lot of people ask about my inner-voice and I always struggle to properly describe it. My inner-monologue is constant yet undefined. I’ve found that the actual voice tends to lean feminine but it’s also ever-changing. A previous friend mentioned that they would unconsciously read my messages in a British accent because it fit with my diction. Now, I find my inner-voice slip into a British accent and I don’t understand why that’s a thing. i don’t know guys i’m just a girl
thats interesting, I am not mute (i am mtf) but i would almost say the same about my inner voice, its never really defined, it used to be maybe 6 years ago i could clearly hear it was my voice as a 10-12 yr old idk why but thats how it was, now its never really defined but i do sometimes like "overlay" my talking voice on top of it even though thats not how it sounds to me???
I feel like if I did that it would sound like me doing an impression of Morgan Freedman and I’d immediately think something like that”well that’s a shit impression of MF”. I’d love to have him narrate just one day of my life, it would make the banality of sound so much more interesting
Same! Friends, family, celebrities, movie characters, book characters (or the voices I imagine them to have), strangers, or a random posh British man (I’ve no clue who it is modeled after) will narrate my thoughts. If I’ve been listening to a certain person a lot (or reading a certain narration), my internal monologue will also mimic their style of speech and sentence patterns along with their voice. It can sometimes get annoying. My standard internal monologue is pretty much voiceless. I know it’s there, and I “hear” the words, but there isn’t any clear “voice.” If there is, it will often switch between different voices (and non voices) rather quickly.
im biilingual but almost always think in english (my 2nd language), because i dont use my native language that much (even tho i dont live in an english speaking country)
Haven't finished watching yet but wanted to chip in that as a trans woman who only started transitioning 4 months ago my voice in my head has been feminine for many many years even before I was certain that I was trans. I distinctly remember having thoughts and conversations at a young age with my self as a girl but not knowing that trans was even a thing and just thought I was weird for it. Now that I am transitioning at the age of 32 I'm trying to train my voice to better fit that voice I have always heard in my head and see my self as that women I always imagined my self to be.
I had something similar happen with me too, although I'm not on hormones. As a genderfluid person, I noticed what F1nn mentioned about it "flipping", but I took a LONG time to figure out that it wasn't some kind of fluke, but rather had something to do with my internal gender. At this point, I think listening to how my mental voice sounds is actually the easiest way for me to tell what gender I am at a given moment. I think people can experience these things in different ways. Ashley seems to be describing a phenomenon where her internal voice is slowly relinquishing her former socialized gender, while others (like us) experience the shift before having an understanding of the gender(s) we actually are and want to express.
@@scalesconfrey5739 This stuff is so fascinating I wish everyone could get past the phobia and hatred so we as a society could actually study these things and get some true results without any bias or negativity
Damn I wish I had this, she could give me guidance. I feel I've done the opposite where I've pushed (repressed) as much of my thinking as possible into my unconscious, it just comes out as behaviour/intuition with a thin patchy dressing of conscious compliment. As I've been to therapy this has improved over time as you'd expect. Hoping I get a sick girl voice by transitioning
This might be my favorite video of yours in... maybe ever? I dunno, I'm probably forgetting some good ones, but point is, I just loved this format of it being just an in-depth conversation about gender identity between you and Finn, you both had very interesting things to say.
so the point about ickys voice in her head shifting slowly towards the voice she has now is really interesting to me. the voice in my head doesnt really have any gendered sound to it. i think words and perceive them as words, and there isnt really a voice attached to that, but ive noticed in dreams my gender kinda shifts around but im on some level of consciousness aware that i am trans and that people in my dreams may or may not perceive me as the gender i am. i dream in first person perspective pretty much always, and sometimes that feeling of being aware that other dream characters are perceiving me a certain way in terms of gender is a significant part of the plot of the dream, and sometimes my gender isnt even remotely relevant to the dream in question.. but when it is relevant, its steadily catching up to the person i am outside of dreams. thats been something ive been quietly keeping track of as like, a marker of progress. im not really like "done" with transitioning yet either, im very much a work in progress on that front, so it makes sense to me that its a thing in my dreams too. but yeah, the inner monologue isnt gendered at all. fascinating tbh and a great topic for a video!
and as for the gender performance thing, im still a lil gamer goblin that likes shooters and rpg's and stuff but i refuse to let this idea that playing an fps is somehow only for boys. what, girls can't think guns are cool? i cant get fat loot on diablo and enjoy watching number go up????? i dont *enjoy* stardew valley!!! but the way i express myself verbally is way sassier nowadays. i like to have fun with being a gay ass woman and "haiiiiiii" when greeting someone
Same for me, I "hear" a voice but it isn't my actual voice nor any particular tone, it's just neutral. I can imagine lower or higher tones if I want, but my default monologue voice isn't any particular voice
@@prestonbruchmiller497 no, i can visualise and audiate and there was a time when my inner monologue was very loud back when i was deeply miserable and wanted to die. the not having a voice attached to my inner monologue seems a very post transition thing, when i think about it.
i don’t even know if i’m trans but i just like watching you cuz it’s kinda comforting. wether i am or aren’t, im glad icky could get me to where i would be. :)
if you don't know that you're trans then you're not. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER YOU LIKE WATCHING THEM Me.. it's my first time here, i landed here accidentally, i didn't even realize what this was about , and then i made a coffee and said, OK, let's see what these people are on about ? some things are ok, other things are stupid and they are on a bad tangent, other things are misinformation . Point is.. I'm here, what does that have to do with my sexual preference ? IT'S A VIDEO MATE you use your eyes, Not do you D$$K It's interesting thought (and this needs to be noted) that you are considering trans, JUST BECAUSE YOUR'E HERE. LOL By that logic go to a Kenneth copeland video and you should then be christian and go to a Metallica video and you should be a Metal head Humans are both interesting and weird
The faking it point is so true. I spent my entire childhood and young adult years trying to persuade myself I was a man by doing stereotypically male things. I really enjoyed pop music and girl bands, but refused to listen to them because I didn't think they were manly enough. I grew a beard, and wore hyper masculine clothing, and told myself i loved cars(even though i dont particularly). I even went as far as to join the police because I felt that would "make a man out of me". The funny thing was, despite all of this, people would still always say they thought I was gay(despite me being straight at the time). I think alot of people sensed the femininity in me before I was even prepared to accept it myself(not that gay men are always feminine, but often they can be more in touch with their feminine side). By the time I got to around 25/26 I just realised it wasn't me. Going to university(I was a senior student) helped alot, as I met other trans people and realised it was a legitimate thing that people are. Up until that point I'd treated it as some dirty fetish that I needed to hide. I'm 30 now. Been socially transitioned for 4 years(self medicating for 2 of those), and now about to go on HRT with the NHS. I'm actually not hyper feminine at all and would probably class myself as a tomboy, but I feel so much more comfortable in myself. Gender stereotypes aren't even a thing to me anymore. And yes, I love me a bit of Taylor Swift now and then.
Hey, Aphantasia person here who has just started transitioning. I can not visualise images aaaaand, I have no internal monologue. Zero head voice. So this video flew so so far over my head 😅
I can actually imagine things super vividly in my head so I definitely don't have Aphantasia, but this video was so confusing cause my head voice has never really been one voice. If I'm thinking about something I'm about to say it'll be in my voice sure, but if I'm thinking of just whatever; it's still definitely a voice but just not one I can discern.
Its a fact tho your feelings are valid. We don't have female socialisation either. When woman talk to me as a equal i still feel like im an imposter and don't belong with them but men and their relationships/friendships too are even more mysterious and foreign to me
Same here. I think part of the reason I tend to get so into Fallout 4 is that my inner girl voice sounds a lot like Courtney Taylor (Female protagonist's VA), and always has, believe it or not.
7:20 Haha! I'm a cis woman. I played with whatever I wanted growing up, which was mostly toy animals, including dinosaurs sometimes, I tried dolls and toy cars but they weren't really my thing. I was the only girl in my class growing up for much of Primary School, so I mostly played with boys growing up.
The dysphoria hoodie!!!! OMG, I almost forgot how important my hoodie was a few months ago. Transitioning is simply the BEST. My girl brain is taking over, btw.
@@fulicious2991came here to say this! The transmasc dysphoria hoodie comes with the Tboy Hunch™ where you squash your tummy down to squish it out so your waist gets thicker and hunch your shoulders forward to hide your tits.
Do you folks ever feel like we're stuck in this liminar space between trying to do what our heart tells us that we need to do in order to be happy... and what our brain tells us to do to survive and engage with society in a way that would allow us to have access to basic human rights?
the last thing F1nn said really sticks with me cause I, as a trans woman, really want to be perceived as cute and I give off the energy of wanting to be seen as cute, and so some good friends tell me I'm cute whenever they get the chance, but sometimes I wear pants, and I don't feel comfortable or cute so them saying I look cute feels more like they just want to make me happy without really believing in what they say. My point is I wanna be called cute when I look cute
I am someone who doesn't feel like a baddie and has often felt like the compliments I get are just hot air…and yet I am a statistically and otherwise proven baddie. I don't know you. But I do know this: you are cute at least SOME of the times you don't feel cute. *headpats*
you know what, i think being cute is incredibly subjective, no? isn't it nice that your friends are so considerate? i don't want to downplay on your feelings, i try myself to put some sense and logic in life idk. i hope you won't worry about it too much, i'm sure you're good as the way you are :D
honestly so so so happy that icky exists because she's the first trans creator I discovered and uhh honestly I may be trans XD but I'm questioning it and she's telling me that it's okay and it feels really really great having someone guide me through these thoughts I've been having since I was a kid lol
Hope you find yourself!!! Know that you can speak to any of us if you need to figure stuff out (just obviously ensure they're not dealing with their own stuff).
14:40 one of things I have been doing as of recent is accepting offers to go clothes shopping and asking people if they want to go out somewhere and go to a coffee place of sorts, it sort of helps that I grew up without a prominent father figure so I was surrounded by my sisters and mum growing up until my step dad came along
I blamed everything on growing up with 3 sisters and my mom. That all my friends are women and such. It's just what I'm used to. Same with all my other feminine traits. I'm glad I'm starting to figure it out now.
@@donder91 Im in this weird state of confusion/acceptance because a lot of the traits that I had growing up werent strictly feminine but they werent masculine, I only really got dysphoria as I became a teenager and started to realise the changes happening
@@GleebieDeebieIt could be that it worked as some kind of coping mechanism. Being unsure of your place and how you fit in in terms of gender identity, you may not have felt a strong affinity for either overtly masculine or feminine things. Purely baseless speculation obviously
I was gonna write out a super long in depth comment, but as I was typing I realized I only had one thing to say about this video. Thank you Icky. For making this for us.
Bit of a preface before my comment, "Egg" broke a bit after F1nn came out, the joy on his face as he talked about it in his stream, seeing you two together, your videos as well as RUclips now recommending me a bunch of Trans creators in response to his coming out video made me see very similar experiences to my own. I've always been supportive of the community but didn't really engage with it. Mostly just told people off when they were being bigots and stuff. I've only started transitioning with HRT 3 1/2 months ago( on 2 Estradot patches + 50mg spiro as of 2 weeks ago) after 40+ years of hating myself inside and out. I've always known though didn't learn what it was till I was like 20. Foster system + some sexual abuse made everything "wanting to be girly" about me cause severe mental anguish as I thought that's why everyone hated me. Juxstaposed with hating everything about my overal male body just made my life hell. F1nn comming out made me see and hear other people's experiences that were similar to my own in terms of personal traumas and self hate and I finally accepted and started taking steps instead of hating myself... Now to throw a monkey wench into the gendered brain voice being social thing with the actual comment :P Beyond the normal indicators that someone is trans that people touch on. My inside voice, especially when interacting with people online in my late teens/early 20's, back when online began has always been feminine and sounded nothing like my normal voice. Which again would cause mental anguish after the fact, I spent a number of years "acting" like a girl in chat and feeling disgusted at myself afterwards only to do it again the nbext day, I was outed at some point by a co worker (Accidentally, it was not his fault) and shunned for it by the people I had been talking to. After that I had to force my inner voice to be masculine to try stop those "urges". Succeeding in that endeavor didn't help much with any of the self hate unfortunately, just meant the voice telling me to off myself was more masuline. Now that I've kind of broken through the trauma and started taking steps towards being me, the femininity in my inner voice was the first thing to return even before I started HRT. I have a lot of work to do to try and make my outer voice sound even remotely close to it and even more work, learning and self doubt to get over ( still can't shop for girl clothes/makeup in person and online's been a crapshoot for "big" girls ) before I can be as feminine as I want to be considering how badly I treated my body during all these decades and how far I am in MPB (will likely need wigs forever), but that tiny spark with my inner voice and the fact I'm comfortable with it now is a start and it's largely due to you and F1nn forcing my algorithm to change. So it's all your fault!!!! and a big thank you to both of you. If I could see you in person I would give you both the biggest hug, but I'm all the way here in Canadaland. - Love, Melody
The human voice, like every other part of your body, is a composition.❤ It fluctuates from moment to moment based on pathways that are established by learned behaviors. Singularity of self is an illusion that is often exploited by grifters or narcissistic actors. Philosophy tube has a great way of tackling these kind of issues through the act of theatre. Also.. Did you freaking see her in Star Wars!!! She was an effing Star Wars!!!
I've been on HRT for over 3 years, socially transitioned about a year ago and used my voice since then. It definitely changed over time, I'd say it's 85% fem, 15% more masc voice now. Like when I fall back into old patterns it's more masc. I don't plan on ever doing my guy voice again (idk if I even could at this point) and am fully expecting to just... forget? what it sounded like at some point. Also I really loved this format, I'm like in the middle between your two positions/experiences and greatly relate to both, it's like I'm discussing something with myself ^^ I'd totally listen to a podcast like this haha
Interesting. I think I'm with F1nn on the "gender is all performative" thing - I don't really believe in an "innate" gender. You have preferences, you have dispositions, and we call these things "innate gender" but ultimately that's just a label we slap on an experience. There's no, like, Essence of Gender that can be proven scientifically to exist imo. To be clear, I really liked this video and respect the opinions of both of the wonderful hosts. You are both so cool and I wish you all the happiness :)
The voice in my head changes all the time. It will often change to a voice I've recently heard a bunch. Sort of like how you can get songs stuck in your head. I hear that song sung in my memory exactly as I heard it. The same thing happens with my inner voice. It will even include the accent of that voice. Too much Harry Potter and I have a British voice in my noggin. Same thing if I only listen to girls a bunch.
Yes. I absolutely LOVE this format! It's so nice to hear you both kicking back and relaxing while discussing the important stuff! (I mean, I've seen you do that in a few videos, but this one just felt... I don't know... on another level)
I don't think that I've ever heard myself as a guy. I played a role of a male for many different reasons but all of them left me incomplete. It's so much better now. This is a very good video and I like the conversation. Thumbs up.
To answer Finn’s question at 6:38 While my experience may not be exactly universal, I am a cis man who did/does (female)voice training for D&D (I am a dm and find my worlds feel weird without women in them). And I personally have not found much change in my inner voice, what I have noticed however is that my inner voice on seemingly random intervals just jumps to a random character voice (sometimes my big bad, sometimes a little girl). This might be something to do with the fact that I play dnd in English, despite it not being my first language. But I am by no means an expert.
About inner voices, I have a funny thing to share. I was always able to "change" my inner voice to whatever voice I hear, so it's fun for me to think sometimes in other people's voices. However, my default voice was always somewhat closer to my real voice (I'm amab). But around a year ago, something really weird happened. I wasn't questioning my gender yet, but i created an online secondary profile with a female persona. That was the first time I was able to be in touch with my femininity for real, and I spent a whole week being this girl version of me. Within a little more time, I wasn't having internal monologuing, I was having discussions back-in-forth with a girl's voice in my head. It was me, but like, another me. This scared me a little bit, and that would only cease when I started really questioning my gender. Since I realized I am trans, a month ago, I sometimes switch naturally to that voice in my head, but most of the time I still default to my old voice in my head It may sound like a fanfic, but I swear it is real hahaha Also, thanks for your videos! Yours, alongside other channels, were key for me to understand about what is to be trans, what to expect from a transition, and a lot more. I'm not on HRT yet, but you helped to change my life. For that, you have my gratitude forever ♡
This, but Pony Town girly oc (after I was "suffocating" and forcing myself to use male oc, only to realise that you don't have to be Trans to have an OC of opposite gender and male Bronies can and some do have girly OCs, but welp, I guess it was one often of the main involving factors that influenced questioning and helped the egg crack^^.)
About the girly inner voice though, I kinda was suppressing it during the suppressive phase (it kept breaking through), but after accepting I'm Trans and later on realising I can just change my inner voice, I did it and now, it's 90% girly most of the time.)
I really loved this video. And it dealt with more personal struggles which I think is very, ACTUALLY, very brave. So thank you. I might end up showing this to a few people to help them understand some things.
The worst thing that can happen if you transition is that you wind up just as unhappy as you already are with being cis, and even then you will have the added advantage of having tried being trans and knowing through experience that it isn't right for you. But it might be right for you andit might make the difference between a miserablelife and a happy life or even just a tolerable life.
Around 15 Mins .. the topic about early stage of HRT and start to accepting and changing things in your life and all the struggles .. just thank you for that particular part. It's just such a wierd state to be in and someone who is able to put it in words is just a little relief for me.
You can use that analogy for a lot of biology honestly. Soooo many competing hormones and biological processes and environmental factors go into development, that it's no surprise that things get messed up.
about believing it to be it: i used to work at a starbucks when i started like transitioning there was so much push back. people would be freaked out or mean or purposefully call me bro, but in my head I would just try to "act like I am [chosen name] how would she do this" and it helped me like be aware of my body movements and mannerisms. but after like, 3 months or so, everything just clicked, like strangers weren't actively misgendering me even though they knew. If you want to be something you have to become it. if you want to get in shape and start forcing yourself to go to the gym you're not "pretending" to be gym person. lol, any habit like that becomes natural overtime.
Trans, gay who gives a sh!t you 2 are hilarious and crack me up. You two have awesome energy together and are absolutely gorgeous. This stuff is confusing, but you made it a little easier to understand. This was actually educational well done you 2
I saw a newspaper article at 15 in 85 about a trans girl's transition and I instantly knew I was trans... but I didn't transition until I was 35. I wish I was a kid today. And yes, all your vids are great, Ashley :^)
I've watched many of your videos and I feel like this is one of you best. It is rare for both of you to just sit down and have a serious convo about these things (for us to see). Thanks!
it's so funny to hear them talking about the voice in their heads sounding like a guy or a girl because i don't think i actually have a constant auditory thinking. my thoughts can have sound, as they can have any sense, but usually it'll only sound like me if i'm actively thinking to myself (mentally talking to myself). otherwise, i just think with concepts, no specific sense necessarily involved.
sure, i do have a voice in my head while actively thinking, like when trying to find the words to write/say, but apart of that my thoughts are more abstract and specific less like text or voice more like movies or videogames.
this video was very helpful, I agree with Finn on a lot of his perspective, ive had similar experiences. Icky is really good at explaining a lot of it.
As a bilingual, I can confirm that the language of the inside voice is random. It was so confusing mine became mute and now expresses itself with flashing symbols and other quaint stuff.
Reading stuff like Self Reliance by Emerson helps u to overcome the internalised societal gender bs. I think transcendentalism and what it says ab conformity applies rly well here
one probably-irrational fear of mine is that T puberty permanently rewired my brain and somehow managed to subtly add certain aspects to my personality that i now hate... very fun to have breakdowns about the fsct that you have thought processes though as for internal monologue, i usually don't have one, and when i do, it has no distinctive qualities such as gender
One thing I've learned in therapy is, that if your brain was able to be wired in a certain way it means that it's most likely possible to rewire the brain.
@@SGffddyhccthat's just a physiological fact, the brain is plastic, brain plasticity constantly rewires our neurons, that's why I don't believe in the gendered brain thing personally, it is an ever changing organ why woulf it be chained to human conceptions instead of the overall weirdness of the biological world
@@sumsarsiranenThat said, neuroplasticity varies and generally decreases as you get older. So not everyone is as capable of changing, even if they want to.
Ive actually had a femme internal monologue as soon as i figured out i wanted to be a girl (i didnt know about transness back then) as a kid. so for me it seems to be more identity based. And even before that it didnt sound like my actual voice. It was more like the nasally stereotypical nerd voice. My narrator was just the "um actually" kid 😅
There are five components for sexual expression. Genetic, hormonal, physical body parts, brain structure, and social conditioning. Any one or any combination of them can be anywhere on the spectrum because nature is messy and rarely perfect. Yes, it's a spectrum, even DNA. It's less likely that you have perfect xx or xy than having some extra material or mutation. Due to all sorts of factors beyond just having testicles or ovaries you can have all sorts of hormonal conditions that lead to different results. DNA and hormones can impact physical body parts. But there are other factors as well. Brains are like moldable clay that can be shaped in any number of ways. There are so many influences. If a person spends more time with people that encourage certain types of behavior they are more likely to do it. If a person hangs out with the LGBTQ crowd they are more likely to lean in that direction than someone that doesn't. Understanding how complex sexual identity is makes it a bit easier to understand where people are at in their journey through life and accept them for who they are.
As someone who is questioning just about everything about themselves (and not just gender) while never really finding a satisfying answer to any of my questions, this comment actually explains a lot. I also don't believe I have a singular self. As in the "me" in 1 context feels different from "me" in another. It doesn't necessarily answer exactly what combination I am, but for now I can enjoy existing as a messy nature blob.
This might be one of your best videos yet! Love seeing both of you go in-depth about gender like this! And I love hearing about Finn's personal growth with help from his Mom.
The voice in my head is changing as i do voice training. Whenever I use my girl voice for long enough, then I continue to remember to use the girl voice cuz the voice in my head will switch. Then, if I do go back to my regular voice, it just feels wrong. I get voice dysphoria over it.
the voice in my head changes depending on what it’s saying. i’ll hear different people’s voices depending on the context, for example if i’m engaging in self destructive thoughts, it’s my dad’s voice (this is the only example i could think of off the top of my head😭)
The voice in my head changed with voice training, but it took time. I think my brain needed a bit of time to adjust to my new voice. But now my inner voice is pretty much just my normal speaking voice.
This has got to be the best video I've ever seen from either of you. Whoa. What an awesome conversation to have. I'm gonna link this to everyone I know LOL
Hi Icky You are incredibly fortunate to be living in a time when society is more accepting. I first started dressing around the age of 7, which was in the late 1960s. Back then, you can’t imagine how difficult it was. Finding feminine clothing and accessories was nearly impossible, and simply trying to exist authentically was a constant struggle. If people found out, you were often treated as a pervert or an outcast. At best, they assumed you were gay, which itself was illegal until 1967, and even after that, you had to be at least 21. Throughout the years, I’ve always been open about my feminine side with my partners. It’s encouraging to see how much society has evolved; it’s far more relaxed and accepting now. What used to be stigmatized is gradually becoming normalized, and it’s much easier to express oneself without fear. Today, I live full-time as my authentic self and am fortunate to have a wonderful, supportive relationship.
Are you kidding? My inner voice never dropped with my outer voice. I just never realized until last year. There's been a girl in my head forever. I'm succeeding at voice training, but my inner voice is still higher to some degree.
Just a HUGE thankyou to you and the content you make. ❤❤❤ I am a Tran-Woman, who has not, for a host of reasons, started HRT (military, family, and recently discovery that i am trans - not bi-gendered, recent divorce due to gender). Anyway the content and topics discussed here, as well as other videos are so affirming and really help place some perspective around thoughts that have crossed my mind and the normalization of those thoughts and experiences I have had as I begin to socially live out my life in a non-duty status. Again just a huge thank you I am loving the content I know it has helped me in my transition. With respect and sisterly love, Karie-Lee
Same here! I really love the dynamic between these two awesome people. It's really fun to watch, it's very informative and, I must add, it's edited wonderfully too!
Something to remember is that you’ve always talked in your brain with whatever voice feels natural. So, as a kid you had your kid voice, as a teen you had your teen voice, and pre-transition you have your pre-transition voice. The transition (hah) between these voices are as fluid as your transition of growing up. You never really notice them because you aren’t consciously making these changes, but now you are making a conscious change when voice training or even just noticing your voice (including in your head), so it can feel weird or “forced” (maybe a lil dysphoric). I do wonder how a 10+ year trans person’s voice in their head is.
In prehistoric times, women would often hunt and throw spears more than men, so that's a girly instinct finn. It's also how I justify doing that sort of shit despite being mtf
No they wouldn’t. They tended to the children and fire, gathered wood, did laundry, and picked berries and tended to the garden. It was the men that went out fishing and hunting and on violent raiding parties to kill competing tribes and steal their resources. It was a brutal, terrible existence for everyone. Men were often killed in war or while hunting wild animals, women often died in childbirth, and most children died before they were 3. The average lifespan was 20-25 for the vast majority of human history. The girly instinct is to be nurturing. The manly instinct is to be protective.
@@JesusFriedChristThe picture that is emerging from recent literature on the topic indicates that there were far more women who were big game hunters than was previously assumed. In the ancient Americas, female participation may have been as high as **half** of all hunters, and no lower than 30 percent. For a modern day view, among existing forager societies, women hunt in 79 percent of them. In those societies where hunting is the most important activity for subsistence, women participate 100 pecent of the time.
For the bilingual bit, not only my voice is different in Spanish as it is in French but it takes some time for my brain to switch from one to the other and my personality is kinda different. I'm way more confident and reckless in Spanish
im incredibly comfortable being a cis woman. i however LOVE watching these kinds of videos and often resonate with them on a deep level! i've rejected sort oft "girlish" stuff from a young age onwards; i hated pink, i hated glitter, makeup, unicorns and whatever - now, many years later, i sometimes struggle with not feeling "girl" enough - these kinds of videos help! its nice to hear different communities struggle with (kind of) similar stuff maybe some trans woman or girl might wonder wether cis women ever feel like not being girl enough - yes, we do, some more than others identity is hard, but everyone gets somewhere eventually
"Why do you care?" That this has taken off as the counter-narrative against the conservative Republican Party in the U.S. is _wild._ Calling them out for being dangerous and destructive? Nah, that's powerful. Calling them out for being weird and off-putting? It riles them _up,_ and they just get _more weird and off-putting_ trying to justify themselves!
I’m a trans man and while I’ve never thought the voice in my heard was particularly gendered, it sounds way more like my voice 4 years on T than it did pre T, yet I don’t think it ever changed pitch. It was always deep, yet I didn’t think as a “girl” that I had a male voice in my head, it was just normal and I never thought about it.
Please do more of this podcast vibing content. Setting was great too. And its so fun to watch the difference in the way you two sit. F1nn just melts into liquid like a cat :)
from a genderfluid bean: yes my inner monologue, needs, wants, and voice tone changes depending on the gender I'm feeling. And took me multiple years to really understand and tell all flavours apart. Ever since it really clicked it feels more like a superpower, being able to emphatise with so many more people
I wish my daughter could have seen this and excepted the slow interpersonal change that takes place. I see this and see the devil/angel on her shoulder, but the devil won out. It is so hard to push against the trauma of taught gender norms that so many trans people can’t overcome and ends their lives!!! Thank you sooo much for this discussion!!!!!!!!!! ICKY, this is one of the most informative videos I’ve seen!!!!!! Please keep making your content ❤❤❤❤❤
Yup as a cis guy can confirm I’m still cis after watching ickies videos lol and love them because they help me better learn about and empathize with my trans friends and their experiences
i'm not sure whether to say 'cool!' or 🥚
@@WillUlt1mate11 CO🥚L!!
I watch her videos a bit to better empathize with others, and mostly because she is cute as hell.
🥚
egg culture is so stupid cis people can be supportive and educated w/o being in denial
I dont feel like I have a perfect girl brain, but its definitely gonna get better with 30 pounds of military grade estrogen
you are amazing!! this sounds super random and unprompted but i felt like it... you are bestest girl :3 never forget :p
@@_lyraspan :D thank you!
Clement's Nuclear-Grade High-Strength Estrogen, available in the Hazardous Materials aisle at a Walgreen's Near You!
fucking love that! you sound so fun to hangout with. any friends of yours a truly lucky!!
congrats on your transition progress! as a non binary person, both estrogen and testosterone seem inadequate. my transition will be performed with coke :3 (in case its not clear very very much /j)
I’m a trans woman and I do more masculine things. I tend to wear more gender neutral clothes (I don’t like skirts anymore), I still tend to sit “like a guy” and I still like lots of the “masculine” things I liked before. I just see myself as a tomboy, because there’s nothing stopping a woman from presenting that way. These are just behaviors, I try not to see them as gendered
Yeah, like it's hella validating for me to wear more masculine clothes now and still look feminine in them lol
Transition goals honestly. I think voice training will help a lot.
As a trans woman myself I love trans tomboys!!!
Right! Not everyone wants or needs to be a super girlie Barbie model. lol Follow your own style. 🤣🤣🏳⚧
I know it should be a perfectly logical conclusion that trans women can be tomboys without having to identify as non-binary, but ngl it's still reassuring to see sentiments like yours T_T ...
I recently saw another trans woman say she's a tomboy and it feels relieving to me, like "oh finally, a good way to describe myself" but also like I'm not alone
thank you ❤
Actually a podcast is a great idea. Talking about trans issues, advice, help, etc. Would be awesome!
Fr that would be perfect
A podcast with both Icky and f1nn5ster, sometimes having various guests, would probably be a great idea.
A long time ago f1nn5ster made a few interviews with a few femboys/trans people (iirc just two, but still?) and my impression is that they were very well done.
I think both Icky and f1nn5ster would be great potcast hosts.
Ooh I'd listen
Yes please! I’d definitely listen too!
@@Thesecret101-te1lmyep
To F1nns point about “faking it”, we preform the norms of our assigned gender too, in many cases.
Talk to trans women and non binary AMAB people about how hard they tried to preform masculinity to fit in, it’s wild.
Ya, I know exactly that. I went into the military to 'fit in'. Didn't go very well....
@@usipravess 💀 unfortunately common occurrence, hope you’re doing better now 💗
Ex mormon trans woman here. Absolutely 😅🥲
yeah i’m nonbinary and it’s like fr, like i finally just stopped caring and I just felt so much better about not forcing myself to do shit
@@RyannJoyRule That sounds so stressful I hope that you are doing O.K.
I am mute due to cerebral palsy. I’ve always been unable to speak. I’m also MTF. A lot of people ask about my inner-voice and I always struggle to properly describe it. My inner-monologue is constant yet undefined. I’ve found that the actual voice tends to lean feminine but it’s also ever-changing. A previous friend mentioned that they would unconsciously read my messages in a British accent because it fit with my diction. Now, I find my inner-voice slip into a British accent and I don’t understand why that’s a thing.
i don’t know guys i’m just a girl
I read this entire thing in a scottish accent, curious if this will have the same effects (prob not but funny anyways lol)
inner voice by influence lol, it changes based on recent events or remarks, etc.
@@EXPSanity It definitely won’t but funny if it did
thats interesting, I am not mute (i am mtf) but i would almost say the same about my inner voice, its never really defined, it used to be maybe 6 years ago i could clearly hear it was my voice as a 10-12 yr old idk why but thats how it was, now its never really defined but i do sometimes like "overlay" my talking voice on top of it even though thats not how it sounds to me???
@@archive3339oh my god its the fucking same for me. my inner voice has never been me, but other random people
That's weird because the voice in my head can be any voice I've heard before. Sometimes Morgan Freeman narrates my thoughts.
I feel like if I did that it would sound like me doing an impression of Morgan Freedman and I’d immediately think something like that”well that’s a shit impression of MF”. I’d love to have him narrate just one day of my life, it would make the banality of sound so much more interesting
Same! Friends, family, celebrities, movie characters, book characters (or the voices I imagine them to have), strangers, or a random posh British man (I’ve no clue who it is modeled after) will narrate my thoughts. If I’ve been listening to a certain person a lot (or reading a certain narration), my internal monologue will also mimic their style of speech and sentence patterns along with their voice. It can sometimes get annoying.
My standard internal monologue is pretty much voiceless. I know it’s there, and I “hear” the words, but there isn’t any clear “voice.” If there is, it will often switch between different voices (and non voices) rather quickly.
@@absolutjackal hearing other people’s voices in my head makes me feel like I should be able to do some great impressions.
I cannot lol
I was thinking this too! Especially if its something ive listened to recently
Sameeeee, a lot of times when I hear someone talk for a long time, my normal inner monologue voice is replaced with their voice for like 30 minutes
I really like how this video is framed, where because f1nn is leaning back and icky is sitting up, it makes her look much larger than f1nn
right like i was waiting for her to stand up and put finn in her pocket
We've established that f1nn is shrinking, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They both look so smol xD
As a trilingual person, my brain plays rng on the language which i think, but can be manipulated depending on the context i’m currently at
I think the weirdest part about that, for me, is that *each lamguage has a diffefent pitch in my head*
@@lacathouilleI noticed this, too. My Japanese inner-monologue is much more feminine and high-pitched compared to my English inner-monologue
@@lacathouille omg yes! i get that but with accents xD
im biilingual but almost always think in english (my 2nd language), because i dont use my native language that much (even tho i dont live in an english speaking country)
Yeah my voice in french is like lower and more exaggeratedly “masculine”
Omg genuinely if u guys made a podcast I’d watch the shit out of every episode
Same
We need podcast!
Haven't finished watching yet but wanted to chip in that as a trans woman who only started transitioning 4 months ago my voice in my head has been feminine for many many years even before I was certain that I was trans. I distinctly remember having thoughts and conversations at a young age with my self as a girl but not knowing that trans was even a thing and just thought I was weird for it. Now that I am transitioning at the age of 32 I'm trying to train my voice to better fit that voice I have always heard in my head and see my self as that women I always imagined my self to be.
This is my experience 100% as well.
I had something similar happen with me too, although I'm not on hormones.
As a genderfluid person, I noticed what F1nn mentioned about it "flipping", but I took a LONG time to figure out that it wasn't some kind of fluke, but rather had something to do with my internal gender. At this point, I think listening to how my mental voice sounds is actually the easiest way for me to tell what gender I am at a given moment.
I think people can experience these things in different ways. Ashley seems to be describing a phenomenon where her internal voice is slowly relinquishing her former socialized gender, while others (like us) experience the shift before having an understanding of the gender(s) we actually are and want to express.
@@scalesconfrey5739 This stuff is so fascinating I wish everyone could get past the phobia and hatred so we as a society could actually study these things and get some true results without any bias or negativity
This echoes with me so much.
Damn I wish I had this, she could give me guidance.
I feel I've done the opposite where I've pushed (repressed) as much of my thinking as possible into my unconscious, it just comes out as behaviour/intuition with a thin patchy dressing of conscious compliment. As I've been to therapy this has improved over time as you'd expect. Hoping I get a sick girl voice by transitioning
This might be my favorite video of yours in... maybe ever? I dunno, I'm probably forgetting some good ones, but point is, I just loved this format of it being just an in-depth conversation about gender identity between you and Finn, you both had very interesting things to say.
so the point about ickys voice in her head shifting slowly towards the voice she has now is really interesting to me. the voice in my head doesnt really have any gendered sound to it. i think words and perceive them as words, and there isnt really a voice attached to that, but ive noticed in dreams my gender kinda shifts around but im on some level of consciousness aware that i am trans and that people in my dreams may or may not perceive me as the gender i am. i dream in first person perspective pretty much always, and sometimes that feeling of being aware that other dream characters are perceiving me a certain way in terms of gender is a significant part of the plot of the dream, and sometimes my gender isnt even remotely relevant to the dream in question.. but when it is relevant, its steadily catching up to the person i am outside of dreams. thats been something ive been quietly keeping track of as like, a marker of progress. im not really like "done" with transitioning yet either, im very much a work in progress on that front, so it makes sense to me that its a thing in my dreams too.
but yeah, the inner monologue isnt gendered at all. fascinating tbh and a great topic for a video!
and as for the gender performance thing, im still a lil gamer goblin that likes shooters and rpg's and stuff but i refuse to let this idea that playing an fps is somehow only for boys. what, girls can't think guns are cool? i cant get fat loot on diablo and enjoy watching number go up????? i dont *enjoy* stardew valley!!! but the way i express myself verbally is way sassier nowadays. i like to have fun with being a gay ass woman and "haiiiiiii" when greeting someone
Having dreams about being percieved as fem has been a big milestone since coming out as a girl has been a milestone for me too~
Same for me, I "hear" a voice but it isn't my actual voice nor any particular tone, it's just neutral. I can imagine lower or higher tones if I want, but my default monologue voice isn't any particular voice
Do you oh have aphantasia because I also think in words but don’t have a voice attached to them.
@@prestonbruchmiller497 no, i can visualise and audiate and there was a time when my inner monologue was very loud back when i was deeply miserable and wanted to die. the not having a voice attached to my inner monologue seems a very post transition thing, when i think about it.
i don’t even know if i’m trans but i just like watching you cuz it’s kinda comforting. wether i am or aren’t, im glad icky could get me to where i would be. :)
Them talking is gender affirming, whatever gender identity fits or ends up fitting~
if you don't know that you're trans then you're not.
THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER YOU LIKE WATCHING THEM
Me.. it's my first time here, i landed here accidentally, i didn't even realize what this was about ,
and then i made a coffee and said, OK, let's see what these people are on about ?
some things are ok, other things are stupid and they are on a bad tangent, other things are misinformation .
Point is.. I'm here, what does that have to do with my sexual preference ?
IT'S A VIDEO MATE
you use your eyes, Not do you D$$K
It's interesting thought (and this needs to be noted) that you are considering trans, JUST BECAUSE YOUR'E HERE.
LOL
By that logic go to a Kenneth copeland video and you should then be christian and go to a Metallica video and you should be a Metal head
Humans are both interesting and weird
The faking it point is so true. I spent my entire childhood and young adult years trying to persuade myself I was a man by doing stereotypically male things. I really enjoyed pop music and girl bands, but refused to listen to them because I didn't think they were manly enough. I grew a beard, and wore hyper masculine clothing, and told myself i loved cars(even though i dont particularly). I even went as far as to join the police because I felt that would "make a man out of me".
The funny thing was, despite all of this, people would still always say they thought I was gay(despite me being straight at the time). I think alot of people sensed the femininity in me before I was even prepared to accept it myself(not that gay men are always feminine, but often they can be more in touch with their feminine side).
By the time I got to around 25/26 I just realised it wasn't me. Going to university(I was a senior student) helped alot, as I met other trans people and realised it was a legitimate thing that people are. Up until that point I'd treated it as some dirty fetish that I needed to hide.
I'm 30 now. Been socially transitioned for 4 years(self medicating for 2 of those), and now about to go on HRT with the NHS. I'm actually not hyper feminine at all and would probably class myself as a tomboy, but I feel so much more comfortable in myself. Gender stereotypes aren't even a thing to me anymore. And yes, I love me a bit of Taylor Swift now and then.
Hey, Aphantasia person here who has just started transitioning. I can not visualise images aaaaand, I have no internal monologue. Zero head voice. So this video flew so so far over my head 😅
I am cis and not aphantasic, my "head-voice" has no voice, it is more like text than an actual voice.
I can actually imagine things super vividly in my head so I definitely don't have Aphantasia, but this video was so confusing cause my head voice has never really been one voice. If I'm thinking about something I'm about to say it'll be in my voice sure, but if I'm thinking of just whatever; it's still definitely a voice but just not one I can discern.
What do u hear then? Just nothing?
agender enby w aphantasia here, no voices here anywhere either
@@cintom8454apparently only 30-50% of people actually have an internal monologue!
i feel like i do but knowing i never had girlhood really makes me so different from cis women 🙁
yeah :(
So true even as someone who has known that she is trans since 14 😭
@@OliveLlama girl i know since im 13 but still nobody accepted me then
Its a fact tho your feelings are valid. We don't have female socialisation either. When woman talk to me as a equal i still feel like im an imposter and don't belong with them but men and their relationships/friendships too are even more mysterious and foreign to me
@@Slayyyaphine glad I'm not the only one who feels this way 😞
I'm fluid and the voice in my head absolutely fluctuates in terms of feminine vs masculine
Yep, my experience.
Same here. I think part of the reason I tend to get so into Fallout 4 is that my inner girl voice sounds a lot like Courtney Taylor (Female protagonist's VA), and always has, believe it or not.
7:20 Haha! I'm a cis woman. I played with whatever I wanted growing up, which was mostly toy animals, including dinosaurs sometimes, I tried dolls and toy cars but they weren't really my thing. I was the only girl in my class growing up for much of Primary School, so I mostly played with boys growing up.
The dysphoria hoodie!!!! OMG, I almost forgot how important my hoodie was a few months ago.
Transitioning is simply the BEST.
My girl brain is taking over, btw.
Dysphoria hoodie is universal, I also have one though I'm not mtf 😂
@@fulicious2991came here to say this! The transmasc dysphoria hoodie comes with the Tboy Hunch™ where you squash your tummy down to squish it out so your waist gets thicker and hunch your shoulders forward to hide your tits.
same for me lol
Do you folks ever feel like we're stuck in this liminar space between trying to do what our heart tells us that we need to do in order to be happy... and what our brain tells us to do to survive and engage with society in a way that would allow us to have access to basic human rights?
yes always, feminine products are way over priced too
the last thing F1nn said really sticks with me cause I, as a trans woman, really want to be perceived as cute and I give off the energy of wanting to be seen as cute, and so some good friends tell me I'm cute whenever they get the chance, but sometimes I wear pants, and I don't feel comfortable or cute so them saying I look cute feels more like they just want to make me happy without really believing in what they say. My point is I wanna be called cute when I look cute
I am someone who doesn't feel like a baddie and has often felt like the compliments I get are just hot air…and yet I am a statistically and otherwise proven baddie.
I don't know you. But I do know this: you are cute at least SOME of the times you don't feel cute.
*headpats*
you know what, i think being cute is incredibly subjective, no? isn't it nice that your friends are so considerate? i don't want to downplay on your feelings, i try myself to put some sense and logic in life idk. i hope you won't worry about it too much, i'm sure you're good as the way you are :D
Icky you should be a therapist, you are so kind and encouraging and explain things very well
honestly so so so happy that icky exists because she's the first trans creator I discovered and uhh honestly I may be trans XD but I'm questioning it and she's telling me that it's okay and it feels really really great having someone guide me through these thoughts I've been having since I was a kid lol
to be clear im afab and nb XD
Hope you find yourself!!! Know that you can speak to any of us if you need to figure stuff out (just obviously ensure they're not dealing with their own stuff).
@@IAmJustAPers0n11 thank u so much
14:40 one of things I have been doing as of recent is accepting offers to go clothes shopping and asking people if they want to go out somewhere and go to a coffee place of sorts, it sort of helps that I grew up without a prominent father figure so I was surrounded by my sisters and mum growing up until my step dad came along
I blamed everything on growing up with 3 sisters and my mom. That all my friends are women and such. It's just what I'm used to. Same with all my other feminine traits.
I'm glad I'm starting to figure it out now.
@@donder91 Im in this weird state of confusion/acceptance because a lot of the traits that I had growing up werent strictly feminine but they werent masculine, I only really got dysphoria as I became a teenager and started to realise the changes happening
@@GleebieDeebieIt could be that it worked as some kind of coping mechanism. Being unsure of your place and how you fit in in terms of gender identity, you may not have felt a strong affinity for either overtly masculine or feminine things.
Purely baseless speculation obviously
I would 100% watch/listen to a podcast with the two of you discussing various topics like this!
Dream blunt rotation/podcast lineup.
I already commented twice but PLEASE more videos like this
I was gonna write out a super long in depth comment, but as I was typing I realized I only had one thing to say about this video.
Thank you Icky. For making this for us.
Bit of a preface before my comment, "Egg" broke a bit after F1nn came out, the joy on his face as he talked about it in his stream, seeing you two together, your videos as well as RUclips now recommending me a bunch of Trans creators in response to his coming out video made me see very similar experiences to my own. I've always been supportive of the community but didn't really engage with it. Mostly just told people off when they were being bigots and stuff. I've only started transitioning with HRT 3 1/2 months ago( on 2 Estradot patches + 50mg spiro as of 2 weeks ago) after 40+ years of hating myself inside and out. I've always known though didn't learn what it was till I was like 20. Foster system + some sexual abuse made everything "wanting to be girly" about me cause severe mental anguish as I thought that's why everyone hated me. Juxstaposed with hating everything about my overal male body just made my life hell. F1nn comming out made me see and hear other people's experiences that were similar to my own in terms of personal traumas and self hate and I finally accepted and started taking steps instead of hating myself...
Now to throw a monkey wench into the gendered brain voice being social thing with the actual comment :P Beyond the normal indicators that someone is trans that people touch on. My inside voice, especially when interacting with people online in my late teens/early 20's, back when online began has always been feminine and sounded nothing like my normal voice. Which again would cause mental anguish after the fact, I spent a number of years "acting" like a girl in chat and feeling disgusted at myself afterwards only to do it again the nbext day, I was outed at some point by a co worker (Accidentally, it was not his fault) and shunned for it by the people I had been talking to. After that I had to force my inner voice to be masculine to try stop those "urges". Succeeding in that endeavor didn't help much with any of the self hate unfortunately, just meant the voice telling me to off myself was more masuline.
Now that I've kind of broken through the trauma and started taking steps towards being me, the femininity in my inner voice was the first thing to return even before I started HRT. I have a lot of work to do to try and make my outer voice sound even remotely close to it and even more work, learning and self doubt to get over ( still can't shop for girl clothes/makeup in person and online's been a crapshoot for "big" girls ) before I can be as feminine as I want to be considering how badly I treated my body during all these decades and how far I am in MPB (will likely need wigs forever), but that tiny spark with my inner voice and the fact I'm comfortable with it now is a start and it's largely due to you and F1nn forcing my algorithm to change.
So it's all your fault!!!! and a big thank you to both of you. If I could see you in person I would give you both the biggest hug, but I'm all the way here in Canadaland.
- Love, Melody
The human voice, like every other part of your body, is a composition.❤
It fluctuates from moment to moment based on pathways that are established by learned behaviors.
Singularity of self is an illusion that is often exploited by grifters or narcissistic actors.
Philosophy tube has a great way of tackling these kind of issues through the act of theatre.
Also..
Did you freaking see her in Star Wars!!! She was an effing Star Wars!!!
Who was
@@LHZOZ777 Abigail thorn plays one of the witches in the acolyte, and I think might be in an upcoming role?Not sure about that.
@@mitzzzu_tigerjones444 ohh that's awesome
@@mitzzzu_tigerjones444pretty sure she also is the VA of a trans character in BG3
I've been on HRT for over 3 years, socially transitioned about a year ago and used my voice since then. It definitely changed over time, I'd say it's 85% fem, 15% more masc voice now. Like when I fall back into old patterns it's more masc. I don't plan on ever doing my guy voice again (idk if I even could at this point) and am fully expecting to just... forget? what it sounded like at some point.
Also I really loved this format, I'm like in the middle between your two positions/experiences and greatly relate to both, it's like I'm discussing something with myself ^^ I'd totally listen to a podcast like this haha
Interesting. I think I'm with F1nn on the "gender is all performative" thing - I don't really believe in an "innate" gender. You have preferences, you have dispositions, and we call these things "innate gender" but ultimately that's just a label we slap on an experience. There's no, like, Essence of Gender that can be proven scientifically to exist imo.
To be clear, I really liked this video and respect the opinions of both of the wonderful hosts. You are both so cool and I wish you all the happiness :)
The voice in my head changes all the time. It will often change to a voice I've recently heard a bunch. Sort of like how you can get songs stuck in your head. I hear that song sung in my memory exactly as I heard it. The same thing happens with my inner voice. It will even include the accent of that voice. Too much Harry Potter and I have a British voice in my noggin. Same thing if I only listen to girls a bunch.
Same, although my inner voice tends to default to Darth Vader when I‘m annoyed.
Playing red dead turned my inner monologue into a cowboy for a while.
my childhood voice usually.
These videos help me so much bc I relate to F1nn a lot bc of their experiences and just having yall here to explain shit is really affirming ❤
8:10 it is pretty crazy when it suddenly swaps, and you wonder if you were just faking it the whole time
Yes. I absolutely LOVE this format! It's so nice to hear you both kicking back and relaxing while discussing the important stuff! (I mean, I've seen you do that in a few videos, but this one just felt... I don't know... on another level)
I don't think that I've ever heard myself as a guy. I played a role of a male for many different reasons but all of them left me incomplete. It's so much better now.
This is a very good video and I like the conversation. Thumbs up.
Honestly I like this channel a lot, it's really cool to learn more about the world and everyone that resides on it. This duo is really fun!
I never really had a voice of my own in my head. It's all other people's voices compiled into coherent thoughts.
To answer Finn’s question at 6:38
While my experience may not be exactly universal, I am a cis man who did/does (female)voice training for D&D (I am a dm and find my worlds feel weird without women in them).
And I personally have not found much change in my inner voice, what I have noticed however is that my inner voice on seemingly random intervals just jumps to a random character voice (sometimes my big bad, sometimes a little girl). This might be something to do with the fact that I play dnd in English, despite it not being my first language. But I am by no means an expert.
About inner voices, I have a funny thing to share. I was always able to "change" my inner voice to whatever voice I hear, so it's fun for me to think sometimes in other people's voices. However, my default voice was always somewhat closer to my real voice (I'm amab).
But around a year ago, something really weird happened. I wasn't questioning my gender yet, but i created an online secondary profile with a female persona. That was the first time I was able to be in touch with my femininity for real, and I spent a whole week being this girl version of me. Within a little more time, I wasn't having internal monologuing, I was having discussions back-in-forth with a girl's voice in my head. It was me, but like, another me. This scared me a little bit, and that would only cease when I started really questioning my gender. Since I realized I am trans, a month ago, I sometimes switch naturally to that voice in my head, but most of the time I still default to my old voice in my head
It may sound like a fanfic, but I swear it is real hahaha
Also, thanks for your videos! Yours, alongside other channels, were key for me to understand about what is to be trans, what to expect from a transition, and a lot more. I'm not on HRT yet, but you helped to change my life. For that, you have my gratitude forever ♡
This, but Pony Town girly oc (after I was "suffocating" and forcing myself to use male oc, only to realise that you don't have to be Trans to have an OC of opposite gender and male Bronies can and some do have girly OCs, but welp, I guess it was one often of the main involving factors that influenced questioning and helped the egg crack^^.)
About the girly inner voice though, I kinda was suppressing it during the suppressive phase (it kept breaking through), but after accepting I'm Trans and later on realising I can just change my inner voice, I did it and now, it's 90% girly most of the time.)
I really loved this video. And it dealt with more personal struggles which I think is very, ACTUALLY, very brave. So thank you. I might end up showing this to a few people to help them understand some things.
I love you guys so much, you speak such simple truths that I always need to hear. Thank you.
The worst thing that can happen if you transition is that you wind up just as unhappy as you already are with being cis, and even then you will have the added advantage of having tried being trans and knowing through experience that it isn't right for you.
But it might be right for you andit might make the difference between a miserablelife and a happy life or even just a tolerable life.
please turn this into a podcast, i would binge that 24/7 this is so amazing
Around 15 Mins .. the topic about early stage of HRT and start to accepting and changing things in your life and all the struggles .. just thank you for that particular part. It's just such a wierd state to be in and someone who is able to put it in words is just a little relief for me.
You just got to love Ashley's reaction at 5:11 on how f1nn compares the womb to a McDonalds worker is just the funniest😂
You can use that analogy for a lot of biology honestly. Soooo many competing hormones and biological processes and environmental factors go into development, that it's no surprise that things get messed up.
the voice inside my head is elderly paul mccartney
Wow, I really needed to hear a lot what was said in this. Thank you, both of you.
about believing it to be it: i used to work at a starbucks when i started like transitioning there was so much push back. people would be freaked out or mean or purposefully call me bro, but in my head I would just try to "act like I am [chosen name] how would she do this" and it helped me like be aware of my body movements and mannerisms. but after like, 3 months or so, everything just clicked, like strangers weren't actively misgendering me even though they knew. If you want to be something you have to become it. if you want to get in shape and start forcing yourself to go to the gym you're not "pretending" to be gym person. lol, any habit like that becomes natural overtime.
wow i wanna go out w y
Thank you for all your help with transitioning ickyyyyyyy!!!!
Trans, gay who gives a sh!t you 2 are hilarious and crack me up. You two have awesome energy together and are absolutely gorgeous. This stuff is confusing, but you made it a little easier to understand. This was actually educational well done you 2
I saw a newspaper article at 15 in 85 about a trans girl's transition and I instantly knew I was trans... but I didn't transition until I was 35. I wish I was a kid today.
And yes, all your vids are great, Ashley :^)
I've watched many of your videos and I feel like this is one of you best. It is rare for both of you to just sit down and have a serious convo about these things (for us to see). Thanks!
it's so funny to hear them talking about the voice in their heads sounding like a guy or a girl because i don't think i actually have a constant auditory thinking.
my thoughts can have sound, as they can have any sense, but usually it'll only sound like me if i'm actively thinking to myself (mentally talking to myself). otherwise, i just think with concepts, no specific sense necessarily involved.
I'm Genderfluid and am ALSO living with a dissociative disorder.
Can confirm that my internal voice RARELY matches my external voice - Dysphoria 2.0
sure, i do have a voice in my head while actively thinking, like when trying to find the words to write/say, but apart of that my thoughts are more abstract and specific less like text or voice more like movies or videogames.
this video was very helpful, I agree with Finn on a lot of his perspective, ive had similar experiences. Icky is really good at explaining a lot of it.
As a bilingual, I can confirm that the language of the inside voice is random.
It was so confusing mine became mute and now expresses itself with flashing symbols and other quaint stuff.
I could listen to you two talk like this for hours!
Reading stuff like Self Reliance by Emerson helps u to overcome the internalised societal gender bs. I think transcendentalism and what it says ab conformity applies rly well here
one probably-irrational fear of mine is that T puberty permanently rewired my brain and somehow managed to subtly add certain aspects to my personality that i now hate... very fun to have breakdowns about the fsct that you have thought processes
though as for internal monologue, i usually don't have one, and when i do, it has no distinctive qualities such as gender
One thing I've learned in therapy is, that if your brain was able to be wired in a certain way it means that it's most likely possible to rewire the brain.
@@SGffddyhccthat's just a physiological fact, the brain is plastic, brain plasticity constantly rewires our neurons, that's why I don't believe in the gendered brain thing personally, it is an ever changing organ why woulf it be chained to human conceptions instead of the overall weirdness of the biological world
@@SGffddyhcc Absolutely, neuroscience supports this. There is no such thing as a permanent rewiring of the brain.
@@sumsarsiranenThat said, neuroplasticity varies and generally decreases as you get older.
So not everyone is as capable of changing, even if they want to.
Ive actually had a femme internal monologue as soon as i figured out i wanted to be a girl (i didnt know about transness back then) as a kid. so for me it seems to be more identity based. And even before that it didnt sound like my actual voice. It was more like the nasally stereotypical nerd voice. My narrator was just the "um actually" kid 😅
This is really really good. This might be my favorite video you've done so far
Interesting thing to discuss in what appears to be an ottoman sultans harem.
There are five components for sexual expression. Genetic, hormonal, physical body parts, brain structure, and social conditioning. Any one or any combination of them can be anywhere on the spectrum because nature is messy and rarely perfect.
Yes, it's a spectrum, even DNA. It's less likely that you have perfect xx or xy than having some extra material or mutation.
Due to all sorts of factors beyond just having testicles or ovaries you can have all sorts of hormonal conditions that lead to different results.
DNA and hormones can impact physical body parts. But there are other factors as well.
Brains are like moldable clay that can be shaped in any number of ways. There are so many influences.
If a person spends more time with people that encourage certain types of behavior they are more likely to do it. If a person hangs out with the LGBTQ crowd they are more likely to lean in that direction than someone that doesn't.
Understanding how complex sexual identity is makes it a bit easier to understand where people are at in their journey through life and accept them for who they are.
As someone who is questioning just about everything about themselves (and not just gender) while never really finding a satisfying answer to any of my questions, this comment actually explains a lot.
I also don't believe I have a singular self. As in the "me" in 1 context feels different from "me" in another.
It doesn't necessarily answer exactly what combination I am, but for now I can enjoy existing as a messy nature blob.
Currently doing voice training, and the inner voice is shifting as my spoken voice does.
This might be one of your best videos yet! Love seeing both of you go in-depth about gender like this! And I love hearing about Finn's personal growth with help from his Mom.
omg love you icky your so educational
Also, loved this video overall. One of my favorites you've done so far, collab included.
The voice in my head is changing as i do voice training. Whenever I use my girl voice for long enough, then I continue to remember to use the girl voice cuz the voice in my head will switch. Then, if I do go back to my regular voice, it just feels wrong. I get voice dysphoria over it.
These vids are so important to me. If they weren't, I wouldn't have chose (stolen) your name.
Thanks Ashley
the voice in my head changes depending on what it’s saying. i’ll hear different people’s voices depending on the context, for example if i’m engaging in self destructive thoughts, it’s my dad’s voice (this is the only example i could think of off the top of my head😭)
I think my mental voice is part of what makes voice training hard. My mind doesn't like the physical voice to be too different from the mental voice.
You should make podcasts with people there.. Food, drinks, fun times! Would be good 😊🐶
This discussion was quite beautiful
The voice in my head changed with voice training, but it took time. I think my brain needed a bit of time to adjust to my new voice. But now my inner voice is pretty much just my normal speaking voice.
This has got to be the best video I've ever seen from either of you. Whoa. What an awesome conversation to have. I'm gonna link this to everyone I know LOL
This video is so good I love this, good job!!
Hi Icky
You are incredibly fortunate to be living in a time when society is more accepting. I first started dressing around the age of 7, which was in the late 1960s. Back then, you can’t imagine how difficult it was. Finding feminine clothing and accessories was nearly impossible, and simply trying to exist authentically was a constant struggle. If people found out, you were often treated as a pervert or an outcast. At best, they assumed you were gay, which itself was illegal until 1967, and even after that, you had to be at least 21.
Throughout the years, I’ve always been open about my feminine side with my partners. It’s encouraging to see how much society has evolved; it’s far more relaxed and accepting now. What used to be stigmatized is gradually becoming normalized, and it’s much easier to express oneself without fear.
Today, I live full-time as my authentic self and am fortunate to have a wonderful, supportive relationship.
Are you kidding? My inner voice never dropped with my outer voice. I just never realized until last year. There's been a girl in my head forever.
I'm succeeding at voice training, but my inner voice is still higher to some degree.
Same.
Just a HUGE thankyou to you and the content you make. ❤❤❤
I am a Tran-Woman, who has not, for a host of reasons, started HRT (military, family, and recently discovery that i am trans - not bi-gendered, recent divorce due to gender).
Anyway the content and topics discussed here, as well as other videos are so affirming and really help place some perspective around thoughts that have crossed my mind and the normalization of those thoughts and experiences I have had as I begin to socially live out my life in a non-duty status.
Again just a huge thank you I am loving the content I know it has helped me in my transition.
With respect and sisterly love,
Karie-Lee
I'm a straight cis guy and I just watch you and f1nn because I find your content entertaining
Ty for beingopen. A cis female..
Same here! I really love the dynamic between these two awesome people. It's really fun to watch, it's very informative and, I must add, it's edited wonderfully too!
this was the most helpful video that I've seen in the last 4 years
thank u
Something to remember is that you’ve always talked in your brain with whatever voice feels natural.
So, as a kid you had your kid voice, as a teen you had your teen voice, and pre-transition you have your pre-transition voice. The transition (hah) between these voices are as fluid as your transition of growing up.
You never really notice them because you aren’t consciously making these changes, but now you are making a conscious change when voice training or even just noticing your voice (including in your head), so it can feel weird or “forced” (maybe a lil dysphoric).
I do wonder how a 10+ year trans person’s voice in their head is.
Loved your mini-podcast! Watching this was like a piece of feel-good informative therapy session. Would be so nice to watch more of these. :)
In prehistoric times, women would often hunt and throw spears more than men, so that's a girly instinct finn. It's also how I justify doing that sort of shit despite being mtf
glad someone pointed this out!
No they wouldn’t. They tended to the children and fire, gathered wood, did laundry, and picked berries and tended to the garden. It was the men that went out fishing and hunting and on violent raiding parties to kill competing tribes and steal their resources. It was a brutal, terrible existence for everyone. Men were often killed in war or while hunting wild animals, women often died in childbirth, and most children died before they were 3. The average lifespan was 20-25 for the vast majority of human history.
The girly instinct is to be nurturing.
The manly instinct is to be protective.
@@JesusFriedChristThe picture that is emerging from recent literature on the topic indicates that there were far more women who were big game hunters than was previously assumed. In the ancient Americas, female participation may have been as high as **half** of all hunters, and no lower than 30 percent.
For a modern day view, among existing forager societies, women hunt in 79 percent of them. In those societies where hunting is the most important activity for subsistence, women participate 100 pecent of the time.
😂😂💯
@@JesusFriedChrist I love this stupid idea that if you are struggling for food you're gonna force half your population to abstain from a job lmao
i really enjoy these kind of videos they help me understand myself alot more and help me care alot less about what haters have to say
For the bilingual bit, not only my voice is different in Spanish as it is in French but it takes some time for my brain to switch from one to the other and my personality is kinda different. I'm way more confident and reckless in Spanish
im incredibly comfortable being a cis woman. i however LOVE watching these kinds of videos and often resonate with them on a deep level!
i've rejected sort oft "girlish" stuff from a young age onwards; i hated pink, i hated glitter, makeup, unicorns and whatever - now, many years later, i sometimes struggle with not feeling "girl" enough - these kinds of videos help! its nice to hear different communities struggle with (kind of) similar stuff
maybe some trans woman or girl might wonder wether cis women ever feel like not being girl enough - yes, we do, some more than others
identity is hard, but everyone gets somewhere eventually
"Why do you care?"
That this has taken off as the counter-narrative against the conservative Republican Party in the U.S. is _wild._ Calling them out for being dangerous and destructive? Nah, that's powerful. Calling them out for being weird and off-putting? It riles them _up,_ and they just get _more weird and off-putting_ trying to justify themselves!
This is really good and has motivated me to work harder on my voice training. Thank you!
I’m a trans man and while I’ve never thought the voice in my heard was particularly gendered, it sounds way more like my voice 4 years on T than it did pre T, yet I don’t think it ever changed pitch. It was always deep, yet I didn’t think as a “girl” that I had a male voice in my head, it was just normal and I never thought about it.
thank you just for existing ICK
nb here without an inner monologue, not sure wtf happened with me but this was a good chat
Please do more of this podcast vibing content. Setting was great too. And its so fun to watch the difference in the way you two sit. F1nn just melts into liquid like a cat :)
I had a mental breakdown a week and a half ago cus I had to wear men's shorts. After that, I don't think I'll question my transness ever again.
Aw
from a genderfluid bean: yes my inner monologue, needs, wants, and voice tone changes depending on the gender I'm feeling. And took me multiple years to really understand and tell all flavours apart. Ever since it really clicked it feels more like a superpower, being able to emphatise with so many more people
I wish my daughter could have seen this and excepted the slow interpersonal change that takes place. I see this and see the devil/angel on her shoulder, but the devil won out. It is so hard to push against the trauma of taught gender norms that so many trans people can’t overcome and ends their lives!!!
Thank you sooo much for this discussion!!!!!!!!!!
ICKY, this is one of the most informative videos I’ve seen!!!!!! Please keep making your content ❤❤❤❤❤
I was just thinking about this today and having an inner monologue with myself on my internal voice. Helpful content. Thanks! n.n