I think the bump is from a case of spring fever. There are still plenty of economic storm clouds on the horizen that are waiting for the 1st clap of thunder to start a deluge of chaos. I continue to wait for the '11-'12 Boxster Spyders to drop another $10K before I swoop in for a bargain (currently at $65K). Just missed one at $52K. There will be more. My dad said there's alway another car around the corner.
The time to buy a GT3 Touring was January-February I’ve already seen an uptick in values (of cars with decent spec….not rubber dashboard, PDK car with no options whatsoever) values in the last few weeks. A $20k discount is nice but on a car that was vastly overpriced or an undesirable spec it means nothing
@@mg-by7uu perhaps? Or perhaps not? …..if there is one thing I’ve learned over the last 6 months or so is wealthy people still have lots of money and although I personally thought 8-9% interest rates would have brought the luxury car market it to its knees and that absolutely hasn’t happened …..infact they are starting to sell really well again after a pause and noticeable decline in prices.
What makes this hard to predict is that 1. the internet and youtube have fundamentally changed the hobby by making the information so accessible, which I think had broadened the market substantially. 2. As cars are getting increasingly digital, increasingly refined, and more utilitarian, the desire for something that delivers a visceral experience may be pushing a growing audience towards a shrinking pool of cars. On the flip side we’ve seen bubbles in alternative investments before, and it does seem that speculation is an element in the car market. If that’s true, a painful correction could be building. I analyze investments for a living and even I struggle to form a strong opinion on whether exotic cars are a bubble about to burst, or a rocket ship just beginning a trip to the moon.
@@RichJ_youtubethat's good news, because I'm looking for a 992. So I hope there are lots of people like you wanting that more experience vs what the 992 provides. I just had a tuned 992 for a few days with the same mods I want to do and it turned me into a huge Porsche fan. I had driven Ferraris, Lambos and McLarens but never a 911 and holy cow. I get it now lol. And this one is still comfy for my gf and I to enjoy luxury car comforts like A/C and heated seats, Bluetooth for my phone etc.... If customers like us spread the love amongst the different 911 generations that's good, instead of everyone all wanting the same thing like you see in other brands
Going to have to disagree with you here, I believe what you are seeing is a bit of a dead cat bounce, and we are going to see a significant downturn in the overall economy which will significantly impact the price of nearly all exotics / collector cars.
There might be a significant credit crunch in the near future (at least in the US)! A lot of US banks don't have a lot of liquidity right now. If this storm clears then yes, I think prices will bottom, if not then.. we will have some further to go!
There are exotics, like Huracan, GT3, F430, 458, 650S.....then there are special versions of these that I believe will outpace in terms of price Performante, GT3RS, 430 Scud, 458 Speciale, 675LT. More exclusive and appealing to folks with far more disposable income willing to pay what they need to pay. Not a horrible hedge against an even more volatile stock market.
Nope. Not yet. There might be a little bounce as desperate dealers try to squeeze some more out of their inventory before the car salesman's dream goes up in flames, never to return again. If you look at all the financial data and the predictions for different asset classes' performance over the next two years it's absolutely clear that the well will dry up, there won't be many buyers left and car prices will have to be slashed. It's that simple. And then there's priorities... real estate prices are coming down too... and the vast majority of people would rather spend their money on a house than on a car, so if they see that the time to buy real estate has come, they will put their money there, not into cars.
Dealers are overpaying going into tax refund season. Some argue that this will be the worst refund season and prices will accelerate to the down side once dealers realize this.
Yes, I see dealers being stuck with inventory that is too expensive in a declining market. Hasn't happened yet, but lets see what happens when more banks fail and more commercial real estate craters.
Unlikely it's rebounding. Stock market just had a small bull run too, after the fed injected a heap of liquidity in the market. The money has to go somewhere. They'll pull back soon and markets will head south again incl car market
Porsche prices for base models have increased so I predict my 718 value will not significantly decrease but will likely remain the same.❤ thanks for the info!!
How bout a current market report on Ferrari f430. It looks like that car has been pretty stable in the last six months and appears to be on an upward trend. I have an 07 Spyder with 9500 miles I just picked up for about 140. New clutch new actuator fully serviced Florida from a Ferrari dealer really nice car at this point nothing wrong with it inside or out. I really think this car has the ability to spike. I'd like to see total production numbers. Love your videos thank you for doing I share them. On a recent Porsche convert. Thank you.
@@davidowen2859 been monitoring 992 turbo s prices, they are not moving quickly especially at the over inflated prices. Was offered 2 cancelled orders recently - these would of be summer delivery cars. Market is changing ever so slightly and will continue. Just economics
This is assuming the fed pivot will lead to price increases. Which doesn't really happen in a bear market. The stock market and crypto will have a massive selloff and exotic car demand will fall off a cliff
Would like to see a spot from you on financing available right now. Banks are failing, repos are rising. Is a cayman GT4 buyer paying cash vs GTS or S buyer? Is your perception of values bottoming based on the belief that a flip from Fed QT to QE will bring rates down and thus the market is better able to support these high prices?
I keep seeing videos on this. The problem is I DO NOT see it translate to the real world in my area. I live in AZ and even unpopular model years for sports car favorited (such as the early 2000s Porsche 911) still go for 15 - 20k for high milage examples - mid 30’s for low milage. GTRs that are almost 15 years old with 100,000 + miles are going for 65 - 70k on the cheap end. Plus interest rates are insanity right now. You might be paying a “bargain” price on something but even with good credit most lenders are gonna hit you with at least 9%
The general used car market might have an uptick in the next two months due to lower inventories, because no new cars were sold in this period of 2020, so there are fewer cars coming out of the traditional 36 months leases. But it shouldn’t last long, IMHO.
First of let me tell you how much I have enjoyed your videos. I am currently in the market for a 911 and I am trying to decide which of these two would hold value better, 991.2 GTS or a 992 4S. The GTS will probably go for a little less money to start with, but not much difference thou. I would highly appreciate your feedback. Thanks again.
Tax return season is marginal compared to the bonus season. That starts also. And since 22 was a great year, expect them to be at a high level, initiating the purchase of holidays, luxury goods and …cars.
Another great video! Thanks for all the hard work you do to produce these videos. I'd love to see you cover the Dodge Viper market, but that is a very difficult market to cover with all the specifics on model, year, and color that play a massive role in their values.
Why? They're highly commoditized and don't have the desirable engine. I'm genuinely interested in your POV. IMO, they're one of the most generic supercars, and worst bets. But maybe I'm missing something.
Lamborghini avenador is way of a priced. In 1989 A lamborghini Countach 5000s Quattro valve Was $124k new out the door. Adjusted for inflation. That's $300k in 2023 but The lamborghini aventador s 2023 Is $800k . Why are they almost three times the pace of inflation? This is way overprised for a lamborghini. Lamborghini was built for The upper middle class. Why have the outpaste inflation.? And why are they three times what the price of A new flagship lamborghini should be in 2023. $800k is along way from $300k They are basically getting completely out of the reach of the average lamborghini buyer.
I think the bump is from a case of spring fever. There are still plenty of economic storm clouds on the horizen that are waiting for the 1st clap of thunder to start a deluge of chaos. I continue to wait for the '11-'12 Boxster Spyders to drop another $10K before I swoop in for a bargain (currently at $65K). Just missed one at $52K. There will be more. My dad said there's alway another car around the corner.
A new GT3 Touring I was looking for just dropped $20k, I think we are still seeing a correction.
H bk NM BM
The time to buy a GT3 Touring was January-February I’ve already seen an uptick in values (of cars with decent spec….not rubber dashboard, PDK car with no options whatsoever) values in the last few weeks. A $20k discount is nice but on a car that was vastly overpriced or an undesirable spec it means nothing
@@jameswillard1 Wait until the fed pivots and the stock market craters. Everyone still feels rich
@@mg-by7uu perhaps? Or perhaps not? …..if there is one thing I’ve learned over the last 6 months or so is wealthy people still have lots of money and although I personally thought 8-9% interest rates would have brought the luxury car market it to its knees and that absolutely hasn’t happened …..infact they are starting to sell really well again after a pause and noticeable decline in prices.
I'm suddenly assigned to produce the 992 GT3 Touring in May how do I handle it and continue making it? Or give up?
What makes this hard to predict is that 1. the internet and youtube have fundamentally changed the hobby by making the information so accessible, which I think had broadened the market substantially. 2. As cars are getting increasingly digital, increasingly refined, and more utilitarian, the desire for something that delivers a visceral experience may be pushing a growing audience towards a shrinking pool of cars. On the flip side we’ve seen bubbles in alternative investments before, and it does seem that speculation is an element in the car market. If that’s true, a painful correction could be building. I analyze investments for a living and even I struggle to form a strong opinion on whether exotic cars are a bubble about to burst, or a rocket ship just beginning a trip to the moon.
Your #2 comment is spot on, at least for me. Just forfeited a 992 allocation and bought a 997 GT3 instead.
@@RichJ_youtubethat's good news, because I'm looking for a 992. So I hope there are lots of people like you wanting that more experience vs what the 992 provides. I just had a tuned 992 for a few days with the same mods I want to do and it turned me into a huge Porsche fan. I had driven Ferraris, Lambos and McLarens but never a 911 and holy cow. I get it now lol. And this one is still comfy for my gf and I to enjoy luxury car comforts like A/C and heated seats, Bluetooth for my phone etc.... If customers like us spread the love amongst the different 911 generations that's good, instead of everyone all wanting the same thing like you see in other brands
Great info but one suggestion: Turn down the transition swooshing sounds. It’s Really annoying with AirPods.
Going to have to disagree with you here, I believe what you are seeing is a bit of a dead cat bounce, and we are going to see a significant downturn in the overall economy which will significantly impact the price of nearly all exotics / collector cars.
I love your channel! Nobody do theses analyses better than you! Greetings fron France.
Porsche 911 prices seem pretty stable still in my area.
There might be a significant credit crunch in the near future (at least in the US)! A lot of US banks don't have a lot of liquidity right now. If this storm clears then yes, I think prices will bottom, if not then.. we will have some further to go!
I have been receiving weekly price reductions on all Porsche models including GT3 but particularly Turbo S.
There are exotics, like Huracan, GT3, F430, 458, 650S.....then there are special versions of these that I believe will outpace in terms of price Performante, GT3RS, 430 Scud, 458 Speciale, 675LT. More exclusive and appealing to folks with far more disposable income willing to pay what they need to pay. Not a horrible hedge against an even more volatile stock market.
Aventador replacement will be announced in a few days, what's your thoughts on what it will do to Aventador prices?
tank.
Market update:ruclips.net/video/L1nvKGMs0vs/видео.html
*Are prices bottoming?*
Nope. Not yet. There might be a little bounce as desperate dealers try to squeeze some more out of their inventory before the car salesman's dream goes up in flames, never to return again.
If you look at all the financial data and the predictions for different asset classes' performance over the next two years it's absolutely clear that the well will dry up, there won't be many buyers left and car prices will have to be slashed. It's that simple.
And then there's priorities... real estate prices are coming down too... and the vast majority of people would rather spend their money on a house than on a car, so if they see that the time to buy real estate has come, they will put their money there, not into cars.
No. The economy has further to go, and so do luxury goods.
No
Can you a video of the prices for the AMG gt 2 door coupe
I have been working on the data for these for quite a while. Hoping to drop a video in the upcoming three months.
Dealers are overpaying going into tax refund season. Some argue that this will be the worst refund season and prices will accelerate to the down side once dealers realize this.
Yes, I see dealers being stuck with inventory that is too expensive in a declining market. Hasn't happened yet, but lets see what happens when more banks fail and more commercial real estate craters.
Love your analysis _ I wish your conclusions were bolder.
Thanks! The data more often than not does not support bold conclusions.
Unlikely it's rebounding. Stock market just had a small bull run too, after the fed injected a heap of liquidity in the market. The money has to go somewhere. They'll pull back soon and markets will head south again incl car market
Prices will decrease further. We're at the beginning of this bear market.
Porsche prices for base models have increased so I predict my 718 value will not significantly decrease but will likely remain the same.❤ thanks for the info!!
How bout a current market report on Ferrari f430. It looks like that car has been pretty stable in the last six months and appears to be on an upward trend. I have an 07 Spyder with 9500 miles I just picked up for about 140. New clutch new actuator fully serviced Florida from a Ferrari dealer really nice car at this point nothing wrong with it inside or out. I really think this car has the ability to spike. I'd like to see total production numbers. Love your videos thank you for doing I share them. On a recent Porsche convert. Thank you.
These are on the way down. Been tracking them for years. They already spiked. Will flatten out for several years, and then likely see a steady climb.
Ah yes, the famous dead cat bounce :D
The pattern is awfully similar 😅
Prices still going down in the UK 😢
@@davidowen2859 been monitoring 992 turbo s prices, they are not moving quickly especially at the over inflated prices. Was offered 2 cancelled orders recently - these would of be summer delivery cars.
Market is changing ever so slightly and will continue. Just economics
Ferrari 430, 458, 488, F8, 296
Porsche GT3, Cayman Spyder, GT4
Mercedes GT
Thank you so much for the great content, your dedication and passion!
Thanks! Many of those cars are covered on the channel. Have a look at the ferrari and porsche playlist.
This is assuming the fed pivot will lead to price increases. Which doesn't really happen in a bear market. The stock market and crypto will have a massive selloff and exotic car demand will fall off a cliff
I agree. But remember, there hasn't even been a FED pivot yet. More decreases to come.
Good to hear!
Porsche used cars prices will tank 50% starting from august.
Would like to see a spot from you on financing available right now. Banks are failing, repos are rising. Is a cayman GT4 buyer paying cash vs GTS or S buyer? Is your perception of values bottoming based on the belief that a flip from Fed QT to QE will bring rates down and thus the market is better able to support these high prices?
I keep seeing videos on this. The problem is I DO NOT see it translate to the real world in my area. I live in AZ and even unpopular model years for sports car favorited (such as the early 2000s Porsche 911) still go for 15 - 20k for high milage examples - mid 30’s for low milage. GTRs that are almost 15 years old with 100,000 + miles are going for 65 - 70k on the cheap end. Plus interest rates are insanity right now. You might be paying a “bargain” price on something but even with good credit most lenders are gonna hit you with at least 9%
Is part of the bottoming seasonal?? Sports cars in the spring going up a surprise?
This is extremely predictable. It's tax return season; prices always spike now. Flattening is actually an underperformance.
Yes there is a good chance it is seasonal, hence the inclusion in the video.
The general used car market might have an uptick in the next two months due to lower inventories, because no new cars were sold in this period of 2020, so there are fewer cars coming out of the traditional 36 months leases. But it shouldn’t last long, IMHO.
First of let me tell you how much I have enjoyed your videos. I am currently in the market for a 911 and I am trying to decide which of these two would hold value better, 991.2 GTS or a 992 4S. The GTS will probably go for a little less money to start with, but not much difference thou. I would highly appreciate your feedback. Thanks again.
Tax return season is marginal compared to the bonus season. That starts also. And since 22 was a great year, expect them to be at a high level, initiating the purchase of holidays, luxury goods and …cars.
would love to hear your thoughts about 991.1 carrera and carrera s market!
I uploaded a market update a few weeks ago. Check it out.
Another great video! Thanks for all the hard work you do to produce these videos. I'd love to see you cover the Dodge Viper market, but that is a very difficult market to cover with all the specifics on model, year, and color that play a massive role in their values.
Also trim level, a gen 5 ACR is double the other trim levels
Huracans are the best value play in my opinion
Why? They're highly commoditized and don't have the desirable engine.
I'm genuinely interested in your POV. IMO, they're one of the most generic supercars, and worst bets. But maybe I'm missing something.
Let’s all hope so😅
How is the lamborghinin gallardo and alfa romeo 4c holding
Your the best. Thank you for your work.
I wish porsche 964 prices would return to sanity but it seems somewhat unlikely. same for the w124 mercedes 500E but less terrible in that case.
Dead cat bounce?
Prices are about to crash, this is a dead cat bounce
Bottoming? No
Research BMW M3 please :)
Love your video but I feel like your excellent conclusion is not coherent with the title of the video 😅
Lamborghini avenador is way of a priced.
In 1989 A lamborghini Countach 5000s Quattro valve
Was $124k new out the door.
Adjusted for inflation. That's $300k in 2023 but
The lamborghini aventador s
2023
Is $800k .
Why are they almost three times the pace of inflation?
This is way overprised for a lamborghini.
Lamborghini was built for The upper middle class.
Why have the outpaste inflation.?
And why are they three times what the price of A new flagship lamborghini should be in 2023.
$800k is along way from $300k
They are basically getting completely out of the reach of the average lamborghini buyer.
Borrowing rates are still going up also which this video completely ignores.
They are part of the video ( 11:21 )
Tesla models
can be anything more boring ??
This is not a car porn site--there are plenty of those around. Fourwheeltrader is about the markets for these high(er) end cars.