I think the fundamental thing being missed about Pac was that he was cranking out tracks at such a high rate it was never about getting people to dive deeper and deeper into the same song, it was about a continuous conversation.
Such an awesome discussion. Came from Bomani's Twitter, I love how Touré is comfortable bringing on dudes who directly disagree with him. 9:20 hearing KRS-One, Black Thought, & Jay-Z for best MC is a damn good mix. 16:30 - nice to hear Bomani mention a similar feeling I have with Lil Wayne who is an All-Time great but yea... I ain't trying to hear that ALL the time. 18:25 - amazing point, "you find complexity to be intriniscally valuable, and I do not."
As an African-American born in 1969 who never liked enough rap to become a regular connoisseur, I still enjoy listening to three intellectuals provide a serious sociopolitical context to art. As an aside, I wonder if Brother Jones’ age is a prime reason why he thinks that Purple Rain is Prince’s best work when many of us who were Prince fans since 1978 think that other albums are superior to Purple Rain. Regardless, this is an insightful discussion.
@@thomasjones8805 Jay’s only argument for the GOAT is his popularity and his billion dollars. Neither has anything to do with his actual skill or output.
@@SD-vf1eranyone that makes reasonable doubt (one of best lyrical albums ever, maybe top 5), blueprint, black album, with number of hits and constantly evolving, great feature career, literally had everyone in 2000s sounding like him. Then yh, u have as good a case for goat as anyone ever. To me nas is goat but jay is right there
Typing this as I go through the episode 1.) Introduction to Hip-Hop - I was born in 1992, so Hip-Hop was a well-established culture/ musical genre/ industry when I came into the world. But my first introduction is easily Ma$e. Feel So Good, and Shiny Suits were everywhere. I remember being on the school bus dancing to this song and the Honey Remix. These two records were game-changers. 2.) Number 1 MC - If we’re talking straight pen game and bars, I’m going Hov 10/10. But I will say, if we were to select one artist to represent what an MC is, this is the prototype/ archetype of an MC; this is the guy who embodies its grassroots and what it became all in one - I’m going, Nas. 3.) Critique of Jay-Z - Bomani is a hater lol. Are there any rap artists selling out stadiums? Let’s be real. 4.) Number 1 MC from the South - Andre 3k 10/10. For both pen game and representation. However, Bomani makes a great point about the lack of solo content from ‘Dre. 5.) Number 1 MC from the West - Kendrick?? Hell NO! Lol. I’m going Snoop, and I will have ‘Pac second. Snoop is the West Coast. I think that’s self-explanatory. 6.) A Critique of Nas - Michael took it there, lol! I’ll tell a quick story. It’s 2016, and I’m on a road trip with the guys, and we decide to do a Versuz. Two artists/ groups, song for song, with a focus on bars only, and make sure the songs were similar in content. Ex- can’t do a club banger to follow up a thought-provoking record within the same round. So I nominate Jay to go up against Big. My boy says no, let’s do Jay & Nas. Long story short, Jay got smoked, lmao. But I realized the matchup wasn’t in Jay’s favor because Jay’s specialty is his wordplay, but Nas is a storyteller, and a well-crafted narrative will always win. But if we were judging off the entire song, Jay would’ve won because, as Toure and Bomani stated, he’s got whack beats. - The funny part after this matchup is we nominated J. Cole to step in the ring with Nas, and man, it was getting ugly for Nas until my boy decided to drop Ether and ruined the fun, lol. 7.) Best Woman MC - Lauryn Hill 10/10. I agree 1000%, but I also give Nicki Minaj the same respect Lauryn Hill has earned within the genre/ culture. 8.) Another Critique of Jay-Z - Bomani is a real-life hater lmao. 9.) The Most Underrated MC - Jadakiss, is only considered Top 5 if you ask somebody from the East Coast, and the conversation needs to be happening nationally. Kiss is one of the best to pick up a pen and a microphone. Styles P is right behind Jadakiss for MC skills and may be ahead, depending on who you ask. Meek Mill is underrated because he deserves the same flowers as Kendrick, Cole, and Drake. LL Cool J is underrated, people only remember the R&B records, but the man is a problem. He was also one of the few artists (maybe the only) from the 80s to have a legitimate career in the 2000s. LL is a pioneer with a track record that speaks for itself. Big Boi does not get the respect he deserves. - More Jay hate, this time coming from Michael. Lol, what is going on here? 10.) Best Duo/ Group - Outkast 10/10 & Tribe 10/10. - Bomani makes a compelling argument for Run-DMC. 11.) Critique of Hip-Hop - Did you guys not listen to the Jay Elec and Jay-Z album? This album is NOI and God Body 5% rhetoric from top to bottom. But still a beautiful critique of the direction of the music, especially not being able to identify the geographic-cultural differences today. 12.) 2Pac - Hip-Hop Jesus is the most accurate description of ‘Pac. His legend is more significant than his physical form. I would love to have more Hip-Hop conversations that exclude ‘Pac because I believe the spectrum is wide enough to do so. 13.) Complexity vs. Simplicity - My problem is that these guys who get crowned as deep or thought-provoking are just surface-level if that. 14.) Death in Hip-Hop - Unless we address gun violence in Hip-Hop, the overall death rate or experience is on par with any other culture, genre, or decade. Michael makes a great point about the coverage Hip-Hop receives, but ultimately, gun violence is the most alarming and tragic aspect. Drug overdoses, freak accidents, etc, are normal. 15.) Do You Still Love It? - I don’t think I do. I think I’m in a scene from Brown Sugar. I’m invested in the foundation, history, untold stories, principles, and theory. Hip-Hop got reduced to music, and its music is now a capitalist tool used to keep the rich richer. Hip-Hop is a way of life to me. And that’s what’s missing. It hurts more when I don’t see artists growing. As Toure said, I’m at a different point in my life. So I get disappointed when I see a guy 40+ with a world of knowledge and an ability to communicate in a way many can’t, and he chooses to talk about the same stuff he spoke about in his 20s. 16.) Album Recommendations - Im about to tune in to Stakes is High right now. - Mixtape Era Rap is PEAK Hip-Hop for me. LimeWire/ DatPiff. Those were the days. 17.) Impact of Southern Rap - Toure, please do different regional and age iterations of this SAME conversation. Keep the questions, and change the intellectual minds speaking on these topics. - Chill out; Tariq Nasheed will not like the West Indian culture comments you three are making; lmao! - Wait, Bomani tied that point very, very well. - Dart! Lmaoo. Overall, a beautiful conversation on Hip-Hop culture, and you three articulated yourselves perfectly. This is where our discussions on HIp-Hop should go because it is deep and complex enough to be studied and analyzed at the highest level. Too often, we have consumers or casuals speaking on Hip-Hop, and it does not do it any justice.
No one ever, ever mentions Guru from "Gangstarr" or Bahamadia in their top ten....But those two will always be my top two. Back when I worked in radio, I had the chance to meet Guru and actually tell him that "Moment of Truth" was my favorite. He said it was his too.
Great convo man. It was a good example of passionate brothas debating, agreeing, and disagreeing in an engaging way. It enlightens. Thanks! I grew up in a southern super sanctified semi-cult church. And we were FORBIDDEN to listen to any kind of wordly demon music. (were told we'd burn in hell, if we did)) lol. As young oppressed kids...we snuck and listened to the radio one day and LL Cool J's "I Need Love" was playing. It changed my musical life! #WhenIFellInLoveWithHipHop #ShoutOutToMemphisMusicTooThough
Met some folks in Tanazania that told me they learned to speak English listening to 2pac. Changed my opinion of Pac as a rapper. Made me appreciate the simplicity and directness of his lyrics.
NaS gets shitted the most in tge Hip-Hop Genre! The GOAT 🐐 has the best hip-hop discography by a good margin, and these dudes just ignore his greatness.
@ronmoody3001 So, his 11.5 million monthly listeners in Spotify don't count. I know there are more popular artists, but 11.5 million monthly listeners in just Spotify is impressive for an MC who never caters to Popular Radio Rap. You sound like a hater! Smh
Love or dislike them or their takes. This is intelligent convo about hip hop at 50! I want more from these three on music, sports, politics and social commentary!
Nasir Jones is the greatest! He checks all of the boxes: bars, storytelling, classic albums, sold out show at Madison Square Garden, 4 hot records in the last 5 years and he beat Jay in their battle. He’s the greatest poet of our time.
People like him never really listened to Pac or any of his deepcuts. They never dissected his lyrics like they do with other rappers. They think Pac was all emotion and passion and in reality he was more then that.
Underrated in terms of just this conversation...Lupe. When all is said and done he will have an incredible impact on the culture touching every level of fandom...especially with his outreach and purposful dive into drill concurrently as he is in Ivy league schools teaching
Yep. But Bomani doesn't like "super rappers" whatever that is, so I'm sure he ain't messing with Lupe. Funny how the guys who never really been to the hoods say shit like that lol.
Ice Cube said to NaS on his 'The Bridge' podcast, "Back then we were doing our penmanship, then you came and put it in Cursive". Highest compliments from 1 of Hip-Hop GOATS 🐐!
I come from the same place as Touré in terms of a moment where I felt I saw myself in hip-hop with the advent of De La but, even as a fellow Black egghead/ wannabe intellectual, I still diverge with him on his fixation with complexity. Complexity ≠ better or necessarily great. But maybe he’s actually using complexity as a synonym for poetic in which case I could entertain an argument. Also, I bet if Touré went back and actually listened to those Pac albums now, especially Me Against the World and All Eyez On Me, he might have a revelation re: how good a pure MC he actually was.
Nas is the best rapper I’ve ever heard. Lyricism. Introspection. Storytelling. Subject matter. Longevity. Catalogue. Concepts. Features. Flow. Nobody is better.
You can not have a hip hop debate with people born in the 80s … they weren’t around to know the evolution…another older guest would have gave the conversation more balance … come on he was introduced to hip hop by the chronic and deep cover … At least Toure was with the birth of mainstream rap with rappers delight
Bomani, I totally agree with you. I really don’t mess with those New York dudes. I love East Coast hip-hop, but I start hating the way they felt like they were better than anybody and now they are just a sad and old I mean Funkmaster Flex is going to still be on the radio at 75 yrs old Melly Mel had a nerve the thing, he could do a diss track east coast dudes. When you’re talking about the south and putting us down you’re talking about your own great grandmother or great grandfather who came from the south. but I love this conversation. I hope you do more of these with different people. 1:17:27
Toure is wrong about Pac lyrical ability I can literally name multiple tracks he’s rapping on a high level he doesn’t understand his prophecy it’s deeper then the wordplay
Bomani is right about 400 Degrees whole album is FIRE! Definitely slept on, Fresh was in a zone Run For It!, Ghetto Children, U.P.T. & Rich Niggaz WHOA!
I legit needed 2 or 3 more hours of this, because it's absolutely fascinating. I don't agree with everything (no one should), but I found the perspectives and knowledge absolutely necessary and intriguing. I love this. (And Michael Smith was correct: Gotta do another one of these, but with some West Coast cats.)
My first hip hop memory. Cold crush brothers came to my block and threw a jam in the park. Hooked the equipment up to the street lamp at dusk. They had lights. I loved the music but it was totally amazing when they started rhyming. Nobody expected it. My heart started beating fast I, started screaming them the DJ said make some noise. The next day me and my brother made up our first rhyme
Being from Los Angeles and born in the 70's, my earliest memory is going to swapmeets to get cassettes of Ice-T, DOC, Kid Frost, Egyptian Lover, Cube, Eazy and NWA.
I appreciated the acknowledgement of the Caribbean influence regarding the east coast zeitgeist of hip-hop. When I was younger, I used to spend a season in hip-hop and then a season in reggae/dancehall before I figured out how to live in both spaces at the same time growing up as a Jamaican kid. I enjoyed the conversation.
Slept on: Phonte Coleman. And Common, as Resurrection is likely my favorite HipHop album ever...with the best combination of beats, rhymes and scratches (Mr Sinista's cuts on this album were as clean as any I've heard on one album).
Mobb Deep... Mobb Deep.... MOBB DEEP!!!! Ok so they are officially the most underrated duo (not even mentioned) as well as the best rap duo of all time. All 3 of you guys seem to have a similar upbringing, so I understand but, it's a criminal omission imo.
@quintonashutabi8256 the same thing? The elements, the trauma of growing up in what is essentially a war zone. How much Mobb have you listened to? Because to say this is wild! But let's do it. I could run you down but I'm not sure I'm boxing with someone who is informed.
Also their songs really pull you into their environment, havocs beats are really convince me what queens bridge would sound like. It’s impossible to describe how to pull that off and what that essence really is
@kbop exactly! They PAINTED some of the most VISUAL Hip-Hop of all time... P had a once in a lifetime delivery and style and Havoc was the Unsung leader of the duo. How about how much the sound had "cleaned up" by Murder Musik BUT it worked so well, that transition from this Vietnam War sound to this like quasi 70s-esq postwar vibe is so underrated. Man I'm kinda mad they get overlooked like this, not even P passing could get them proper respect smh.
Bounce for the Juvenile is in fact, Juvenile you can hear it sounds like him...but it's super early in his career so it makes sense he sounds different later
I respectfully disagree! Not even close??? There is no one who is head and shoulders above ALL RAPPERS!!! Jay-Z is the greatest to me but I’m not going to say there’s no one close.
@@jameswilson4033 Ok maybe me saying it's not close was a stretch. But Nas is the goat. I don't even remember the last JayZ album i've enjoyed. Probably American Gangster. At this point that was 15 years ago.
@@kes9298 I personally think 4:44 was a brilliant album. They are also trippin’ about the fact that Jay-Z didn't out-rap Jay Electronica on his own album. Bomani is my favorite commentator on the planet, but he was wrong about that!
Underrated rapper- Guru (RIP 🕊️ ) was slept on; specifically, Jazzmatazz album…he was before his time, nobody had that sound of rap w/ jazz beats back then…I had the tape 😀
1:22:50 I'm from DC. Go Go was our thing. We were too busy partying to everything while also partying to our Go Go. Also DC is big on Jazz as well. In DC, we were more so fans and collectors than creators. We admired all of the HIP HOP from everywhere. I think that's why the HIP HOP Museum is here.
This was dope. Hope this becomes a monthly series with these 3. 3 Stacks can't be top anything solo though. He's incredible, but he doesn't meet the requirement in having never dropped a single solo album. He's also not a better rapper/emcee than Nas. Easier to spit bars with a partner vs. carrying albums by yourself. Also easier to drop one guest feature every 2 yrs or so.
I love how relatable this conversation is because it perfectly shows the difference between a hip hop head and casual hip hop listeners. Nolan I bringing up 400 degrees speaks to my soul because it’s one of my top 5 personal favorite albums. As a southerner, we are not that impressed with overly complex lyrics
Nas having “whack beats” is completely Fabricated. It aint hard to tell, take it in blood, nas is like, hate me now, made you look, family, thieves theme, black republican, ny state of mind, book of rhymes, get down, small world, favor for a favor, life we chose, no bad energy, life’s a bitch, represent, the set up, god love us…What are we talking about??
The problem with a lot of these discussions is that the term greatness is not clearly defined. Everyone is arguing their opinions from their own perspectives... still fun though.
Being a 54 year old man from Brooklyn my first memory was "Rappers Delight", but my solidified moment was going to see Biz Markie at the Albie Square mall as a teenager....wow
I whole heartedly agree that 400 Degrees Juvenile was in a bag that people may not realize unless you listen to the songs close enough because it sounds southern and effortless. But ironically that's the point. He kind of effortlessly was flowing his ass off and the songs are catchy yet not corny in a way that deserves their own discussion, but catchy makes people overlook how he was such a game spitter similar to an E40 or Suga Free. This street talk, game spit type rap that requires another gear of genius to turn into song versus which embody everything you want a rap verse to have in it. It's not lyrical miracle but it's Black slang, street game, story telling and song writing genius. He def raised Lil Wayne.
Toure made an excellent point about where we listen to music. Headphones in NYC (and when you are younger), cars for alot of the rest of us. Damn that was a dope observation. As a Detroiter i loved some Three 6 Mafia growing up, but in NY they wasnt playing that shit at all.
Lauryn. Hill. That name. That legacy. She broke the mold on so many levels. The fact that she only released one full studio album makes her an enigma. "The Miseducation..." said everything that needed to be said. Period.
Born in '82, Hip Hop has been a part of my life as long as I can remember. I'm right on the same wavelength with Michael.... Black Thought is my favorite MC of ALL TIME, with 3 Stacks up there too. When I was 4, I wanted to BE DMC 😂😅
Pac was definitely the most political and was becoming more and more so as he got older. Makaveli was the deepest album ever made by a mainstream rap artist esp at that time! Pure genius!
When they started talking about MC Ren being slept on I literally thought if anyone is slept on is Inspector Deck.😂 His inteo versus for triumph is one of the best verses ever. I'm glad someone mentioned him.
![[DOKKAN BATTLE] Worldwide Campaign Announcement Video Part 2!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JpT5Voak6WA/mqdefault.jpg)
These 3 should get together and do this every couple of months
LOL
I think the fundamental thing being missed about Pac was that he was cranking out tracks at such a high rate it was never about getting people to dive deeper and deeper into the same song, it was about a continuous conversation.
Such an awesome discussion. Came from Bomani's Twitter, I love how Touré is comfortable bringing on dudes who directly disagree with him.
9:20 hearing KRS-One, Black Thought, & Jay-Z for best MC is a damn good mix.
16:30 - nice to hear Bomani mention a similar feeling I have with Lil Wayne who is an All-Time great but yea... I ain't trying to hear that ALL the time.
18:25 - amazing point, "you find complexity to be intriniscally valuable, and I do not."
Toure is literally the reason why I can’t stand the New York bias
Toure' is not only New York bias but he's bad New York bias as he only is hip to the popular rappers that white kids in college are hip to.
I appreciate that Bomani & Michael counter that with their individual perspectives
Luda is so slept on. I’m glad Bomani brought him up. Chris is sooooo good. Also, I love athe Ren shout out.
Ren was so underrated on the NWA albums. Ren not being able to deliver a memorable solo album is what holds him back.
LISTENING SUGGESTION: Go back and spend some time with Lupe Fiasco's "Thre Cool". Really get into it. Easily a classic
As an African-American born in 1969 who never liked enough rap to become a regular connoisseur, I still enjoy listening to three intellectuals provide a serious sociopolitical context to art. As an aside, I wonder if Brother Jones’ age is a prime reason why he thinks that Purple Rain is Prince’s best work when many of us who were Prince fans since 1978 think that other albums are superior to Purple Rain. Regardless, this is an insightful discussion.
I trust no one that thinks Jay-Z is the best MC of all time. Period.
It's all subjective, Jay have a good argument for the goat.
@@thomasjones8805 Jay’s only argument for the GOAT is his popularity and his billion dollars. Neither has anything to do with his actual skill or output.
@@SD-vf1ernigga wrote still Dre and jay is your favourite rappers favourite rapper
@@SD-vf1eranyone that makes reasonable doubt (one of best lyrical albums ever, maybe top 5), blueprint, black album, with number of hits and constantly evolving, great feature career, literally had everyone in 2000s sounding like him. Then yh, u have as good a case for goat as anyone ever. To me nas is goat but jay is right there
Jay has more good songs than maybe anyone besides nas and maybe rakim
Typing this as I go through the episode
1.) Introduction to Hip-Hop - I was born in 1992, so Hip-Hop was a well-established culture/ musical genre/ industry when I came into the world. But my first introduction is easily Ma$e. Feel So Good, and Shiny Suits were everywhere. I remember being on the school bus dancing to this song and the Honey Remix. These two records were game-changers.
2.) Number 1 MC - If we’re talking straight pen game and bars, I’m going Hov 10/10. But I will say, if we were to select one artist to represent what an MC is, this is the prototype/ archetype of an MC; this is the guy who embodies its grassroots and what it became all in one - I’m going, Nas.
3.) Critique of Jay-Z - Bomani is a hater lol. Are there any rap artists selling out stadiums? Let’s be real.
4.) Number 1 MC from the South - Andre 3k 10/10. For both pen game and representation. However, Bomani makes a great point about the lack of solo content from ‘Dre.
5.) Number 1 MC from the West - Kendrick?? Hell NO! Lol. I’m going Snoop, and I will have ‘Pac second. Snoop is the West Coast. I think that’s self-explanatory.
6.) A Critique of Nas - Michael took it there, lol! I’ll tell a quick story. It’s 2016, and I’m on a road trip with the guys, and we decide to do a Versuz. Two artists/ groups, song for song, with a focus on bars only, and make sure the songs were similar in content. Ex- can’t do a club banger to follow up a thought-provoking record within the same round. So I nominate Jay to go up against Big. My boy says no, let’s do Jay & Nas. Long story short, Jay got smoked, lmao. But I realized the matchup wasn’t in Jay’s favor because Jay’s specialty is his wordplay, but Nas is a storyteller, and a well-crafted narrative will always win. But if we were judging off the entire song, Jay would’ve won because, as Toure and Bomani stated, he’s got whack beats. - The funny part after this matchup is we nominated J. Cole to step in the ring with Nas, and man, it was getting ugly for Nas until my boy decided to drop Ether and ruined the fun, lol.
7.) Best Woman MC - Lauryn Hill 10/10. I agree 1000%, but I also give Nicki Minaj the same respect Lauryn Hill has earned within the genre/ culture.
8.) Another Critique of Jay-Z - Bomani is a real-life hater lmao.
9.) The Most Underrated MC - Jadakiss, is only considered Top 5 if you ask somebody from the East Coast, and the conversation needs to be happening nationally. Kiss is one of the best to pick up a pen and a microphone. Styles P is right behind Jadakiss for MC skills and may be ahead, depending on who you ask. Meek Mill is underrated because he deserves the same flowers as Kendrick, Cole, and Drake. LL Cool J is underrated, people only remember the R&B records, but the man is a problem. He was also one of the few artists (maybe the only) from the 80s to have a legitimate career in the 2000s. LL is a pioneer with a track record that speaks for itself. Big Boi does not get the respect he deserves. - More Jay hate, this time coming from Michael. Lol, what is going on here?
10.) Best Duo/ Group - Outkast 10/10 & Tribe 10/10. - Bomani makes a compelling argument for Run-DMC.
11.) Critique of Hip-Hop - Did you guys not listen to the Jay Elec and Jay-Z album? This album is NOI and God Body 5% rhetoric from top to bottom. But still a beautiful critique of the direction of the music, especially not being able to identify the geographic-cultural differences today.
12.) 2Pac - Hip-Hop Jesus is the most accurate description of ‘Pac. His legend is more significant than his physical form. I would love to have more Hip-Hop conversations that exclude ‘Pac because I believe the spectrum is wide enough to do so.
13.) Complexity vs. Simplicity - My problem is that these guys who get crowned as deep or thought-provoking are just surface-level if that.
14.) Death in Hip-Hop - Unless we address gun violence in Hip-Hop, the overall death rate or experience is on par with any other culture, genre, or decade. Michael makes a great point about the coverage Hip-Hop receives, but ultimately, gun violence is the most alarming and tragic aspect. Drug overdoses, freak accidents, etc, are normal.
15.) Do You Still Love It? - I don’t think I do. I think I’m in a scene from Brown Sugar. I’m invested in the foundation, history, untold stories, principles, and theory. Hip-Hop got reduced to music, and its music is now a capitalist tool used to keep the rich richer. Hip-Hop is a way of life to me. And that’s what’s missing. It hurts more when I don’t see artists growing. As Toure said, I’m at a different point in my life. So I get disappointed when I see a guy 40+ with a world of knowledge and an ability to communicate in a way many can’t, and he chooses to talk about the same stuff he spoke about in his 20s.
16.) Album Recommendations - Im about to tune in to Stakes is High right now. - Mixtape Era Rap is PEAK Hip-Hop for me. LimeWire/ DatPiff. Those were the days.
17.) Impact of Southern Rap - Toure, please do different regional and age iterations of this SAME conversation. Keep the questions, and change the intellectual minds speaking on these topics. - Chill out; Tariq Nasheed will not like the West Indian culture comments you three are making; lmao! - Wait, Bomani tied that point very, very well. - Dart! Lmaoo.
Overall, a beautiful conversation on Hip-Hop culture, and you three articulated yourselves perfectly. This is where our discussions on HIp-Hop should go because it is deep and complex enough to be studied and analyzed at the highest level. Too often, we have consumers or casuals speaking on Hip-Hop, and it does not do it any justice.
Appreciate the way you think
East Coast,
Rakim, Big Daddy Kane,
South
Scarface, Andre
West
Tupac, Ice Cube
This was a EXCELLENT conversation on the art form that is Hip Hop from us "OLD HEADS" and how we see it. RESPECT!
When you talk about duos, you gotta mention Mobb Deep
Yo "Havoc" is on Line 1 He wanna holla at you! lol because "Queens got something to say" lol
This was a great intelligent conversation. Thank you @Touré and @DCP_Entertainment👋
Loved this music convo. Wouldn't mind seeing another one
Redman and AZ are most slept on!!!
No one ever, ever mentions Guru from "Gangstarr" or Bahamadia in their top ten....But those two will always be my top two. Back when I worked in radio, I had the chance to meet Guru and actually tell him that "Moment of Truth" was my favorite. He said it was his too.
Gangstarr💯 got amazing discography of rap groups. thas dope u met guru, rip.
Great convo man. It was a good example of passionate brothas debating, agreeing, and disagreeing in an engaging way. It enlightens. Thanks! I grew up in a southern super sanctified semi-cult church. And we were FORBIDDEN to listen to any kind of wordly demon music. (were told we'd burn in hell, if we did)) lol. As young oppressed kids...we snuck and listened to the radio one day and LL Cool J's "I Need Love" was playing. It changed my musical life! #WhenIFellInLoveWithHipHop #ShoutOutToMemphisMusicTooThough
Underrated: Phonte, Pharoahe Monch, Aesop Rock
Most def
Phonte, one of my top 3 favorite MCs EVER. He speaks to me, when he's rhyming.
Toure putting on for JayZ while rockin a Kaepernick jersey is nasty work
Right 🎯 the Irony lol the disingenuousness writes itself.
Met some folks in Tanazania that told me they learned to speak English listening to 2pac. Changed my opinion of Pac as a rapper. Made me appreciate the simplicity and directness of his lyrics.
This is my favorite video on RUclips right now. I was born in 85... this is a conversation by, between, and for my tribe
Nas #1 ….Just dropped 5 dope joints in the last 3 years in his late 40’s .. like what are we talking bout??
People are willfully ignoring the classics he ALWAYS drops. 🐐
NaS gets shitted the most in tge Hip-Hop Genre! The GOAT 🐐 has the best hip-hop discography by a good margin, and these dudes just ignore his greatness.
NO ONE LISTEN TO NAS....BUT HIS STANS FOR THE MOST PART....
HE'S ONE OF THE GREATS THO
@ronmoody3001 So, his 11.5 million monthly listeners in Spotify don't count. I know there are more popular artists, but 11.5 million monthly listeners in just Spotify is impressive for an MC who never caters to Popular Radio Rap. You sound like a hater! Smh
Nas is to rap as Gretzky is to hockey.
Love or dislike them or their takes. This is intelligent convo about hip hop at 50! I want more from these three on music, sports, politics and social commentary!
Grand Puba is slept on, and has one of the illest flows.
Nasir Jones is the greatest! He checks all of the boxes: bars, storytelling, classic albums, sold out show at Madison Square Garden, 4 hot records in the last 5 years and he beat Jay in their battle. He’s the greatest poet of our time.
46:06 Regardless of the 2Pac mythology & drama that distract and even inflate his legacy, DEAR MOMMA exists, so he artistry can not be denied.
People like him never really listened to Pac or any of his deepcuts. They never dissected his lyrics like they do with other rappers. They think Pac was all emotion and passion and in reality he was more then that.
Underrated in terms of just this conversation...Lupe. When all is said and done he will have an incredible impact on the culture touching every level of fandom...especially with his outreach and purposful dive into drill concurrently as he is in Ivy league schools teaching
Yep. But Bomani doesn't like "super rappers" whatever that is, so I'm sure he ain't messing with Lupe. Funny how the guys who never really been to the hoods say shit like that lol.
Any discussion on Hip Hops 50th without discussing all the elements isn’t a conversation about Hip Hop. Its a conversation about rap culture….
The 2Pac slander from Toure(ttes) is mind-numbing
You can tell its personal. Pac must’ve took his girl back in the day or declined him a photo.
Ice Cube said to NaS on his 'The Bridge' podcast, "Back then we were doing our penmanship, then you came and put it in Cursive". Highest compliments from 1 of Hip-Hop GOATS 🐐!
I come from the same place as Touré in terms of a moment where I felt I saw myself in hip-hop with the advent of De La but, even as a fellow Black egghead/ wannabe intellectual, I still diverge with him on his fixation with complexity. Complexity ≠ better or necessarily great. But maybe he’s actually using complexity as a synonym for poetic in which case I could entertain an argument.
Also, I bet if Touré went back and actually listened to those Pac albums now, especially Me Against the World and All Eyez On Me, he might have a revelation re: how good a pure MC he actually was.
Nas is the best rapper I’ve ever heard. Lyricism. Introspection. Storytelling. Subject matter. Longevity. Catalogue. Concepts. Features. Flow. Nobody is better.
In the group conversation there was no mention of Little Brother!
faaaaam
Facts!!! Minstrel Show front to back!
I couldn't understand why they didn't...unless you only see Little Brother as 9th Wonder.
“If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.”
Complexity does demonstrate skill. Simplicity demonstrates mastery.
I'm 20 mins in and I declare Bomani the winner of the debate lol. He gave DJ Paul & Juicy J their proper credit for impact of the sound of hip hop.
🐐🐐
The show I never realized I needed to watch! This was so dope, I’m surprised I didn’t hear certain names like Pun or AZ. ✌🏽❤️
Man this was great! I wish this was a monthly podcast!
You can not have a hip hop debate with people born in the 80s … they weren’t around to know the evolution…another older guest would have gave the conversation more balance … come on he was introduced to hip hop by the chronic and deep cover … At least Toure was with the birth of mainstream rap with rappers delight
Bomani, I totally agree with you. I really don’t mess with those New York dudes. I love East Coast hip-hop, but I start hating the way they felt like they were better than anybody and now they are just a sad and old I mean Funkmaster Flex is going to still be on the radio at 75 yrs old Melly Mel had a nerve the thing, he could do a diss track east coast dudes. When you’re talking about the south and putting us down you’re talking about your own great grandmother or great grandfather who came from the south. but I love this conversation. I hope you do more of these with different people. 1:17:27
Great Conversation🔥🔥🔥🔥
Peace...😎
Toure is wrong about Pac lyrical ability I can literally name multiple tracks he’s rapping on a high level he doesn’t understand his prophecy it’s deeper then the wordplay
Pac wasn't no prophet, shit biblical so called prophets are frauds, Pac was just a rapper.
Pac acappelas are wayyyy more intriguing than his songs, with those basic beats
I love to hear an intelligible convo about hip hop with no bias. I hate to see these roc nation powered podcasts that think Jay is above critique smh
The rap I grew up on was extremely regional.
Bomani is right about 400 Degrees whole album is FIRE! Definitely slept on, Fresh was in a zone Run For It!, Ghetto Children, U.P.T. & Rich Niggaz WHOA!
Ghetto
I legit needed 2 or 3 more hours of this, because it's absolutely fascinating. I don't agree with everything (no one should), but I found the perspectives and knowledge absolutely necessary and intriguing. I love this. (And Michael Smith was correct: Gotta do another one of these, but with some West Coast cats.)
RAKIM enough said
My first hip hop memory.
Cold crush brothers came to my block and threw a jam in the park.
Hooked the equipment up to the street lamp at dusk.
They had lights.
I loved the music but it was totally amazing when they started rhyming. Nobody expected it.
My heart started beating fast I, started screaming them the DJ said make some noise.
The next day me and my brother made up our first rhyme
Slept on = Little Brother
Mc Ren solo catalog was fire!
KIZZMYBLACKAZZ
I love the conversation, even though I disagree with do many of the takes . I wish I was a part of it myself .
love these discussions
Being from Los Angeles and born in the 70's, my earliest memory is
going to swapmeets to get cassettes of Ice-T, DOC, Kid Frost, Egyptian Lover, Cube, Eazy and NWA.
What about joe Cooley and Rodney O
The hate on PAC is real!!! As a black man you’ll learn more from Tupac than any school in America
There was such a dope flow to this conversation.
I appreciated the acknowledgement of the Caribbean influence regarding the east coast zeitgeist of hip-hop. When I was younger, I used to spend a season in hip-hop and then a season in reggae/dancehall before I figured out how to live in both spaces at the same time growing up as a Jamaican kid. I enjoyed the conversation.
Slept on: Phonte Coleman. And Common, as Resurrection is likely my favorite HipHop album ever...with the best combination of beats, rhymes and scratches (Mr Sinista's cuts on this album were as clean as any I've heard on one album).
How an artist makes u feel is more important than complexity
I thoroughly enjoyed this. Thanks fellas 🤘🏾
These are my type of conversations
I’m really enjoying this conversation
This was dope. Thanks for this conversation, gentlemen.
Mobb Deep... Mobb Deep.... MOBB DEEP!!!! Ok so they are officially the most underrated duo (not even mentioned) as well as the best rap duo of all time. All 3 of you guys seem to have a similar upbringing, so I understand but, it's a criminal omission imo.
Mobb deep can’t touch Outkast. Lyrically, they were talking about the same thing every song
@quintonashutabi8256 the same thing? The elements, the trauma of growing up in what is essentially a war zone. How much Mobb have you listened to? Because to say this is wild! But let's do it. I could run you down but I'm not sure I'm boxing with someone who is informed.
Also their songs really pull you into their environment, havocs beats are really convince me what queens bridge would sound like. It’s impossible to describe how to pull that off and what that essence really is
@kbop exactly! They PAINTED some of the most VISUAL Hip-Hop of all time... P had a once in a lifetime delivery and style and Havoc was the Unsung leader of the duo. How about how much the sound had "cleaned up" by Murder Musik BUT it worked so well, that transition from this Vietnam War sound to this like quasi 70s-esq postwar vibe is so underrated. Man I'm kinda mad they get overlooked like this, not even P passing could get them proper respect smh.
Need more of these convos
Bounce for the Juvenile is in fact, Juvenile you can hear it sounds like him...but it's super early in his career so it makes sense he sounds different later
…and Michael Smith is from NOLA.
Nas is the goat and its not close. Illmatic - all the way to Magic 2 and 5 albums in the last 3 years. All quality too.
I respectfully disagree! Not even close??? There is no one who is head and shoulders above ALL RAPPERS!!! Jay-Z is the greatest to me but I’m not going to say there’s no one close.
@@jameswilson4033 Ok maybe me saying it's not close was a stretch. But Nas is the goat. I don't even remember the last JayZ album i've enjoyed. Probably American Gangster. At this point that was 15 years ago.
@@kes9298 I personally think 4:44 was a brilliant album. They are also trippin’ about the fact that Jay-Z didn't out-rap Jay Electronica on his own album. Bomani is my favorite commentator on the planet, but he was wrong about that!
@@jameswilson4033 444 is cool to me. Nothing more nothing less.
Andre better.
Tupac is one of the greatest
Man I wish I could have been part of this conversation.
Underrated rapper- Guru (RIP 🕊️ ) was slept on; specifically, Jazzmatazz album…he was before his time, nobody had that sound of rap w/ jazz beats back then…I had the tape 😀
With the help of Nas and J Cole, Guru resurgence is on his way. The brother was nice.
1:22:50 I'm from DC. Go Go was our thing. We were too busy partying to everything while also partying to our Go Go. Also DC is big on Jazz as well. In DC, we were more so fans and collectors than creators. We admired all of the HIP HOP from everywhere. I think that's why the HIP HOP Museum is here.
I remember go go... Kinda was melded into rap. Beats
Nah, the land was just too expensive in NY.
Bomani, name 1 factual error in the song (which is also a book) "I Know I Can" by Nas.
facts, that was hollow
This discussion is epic! ✊🏾💪🏾🔥
I need to be on this show. I could bring a dope perspective on a few levels...
This was dope. Hope this becomes a monthly series with these 3.
3 Stacks can't be top anything solo though. He's incredible, but he doesn't meet the requirement in having never dropped a single solo album. He's also not a better rapper/emcee than Nas. Easier to spit bars with a partner vs. carrying albums by yourself. Also easier to drop one guest feature every 2 yrs or so.
Shout out to Bomani for the Question Mark Asylum reference. I’m not even from DC but Hey Look Away still slaps.
I love how relatable this conversation is because it perfectly shows the difference between a hip hop head and casual hip hop listeners.
Nolan I bringing up 400 degrees speaks to my soul because it’s one of my top 5 personal favorite albums.
As a southerner, we are not that impressed with overly complex lyrics
Bomani and Michael Smith sound like two guys that are knowledgeable about sports critiquing music
Compelling convo, as expected.
Part of the reason Jay does all those collaborative tours is the nature of his deal w/ Live Nation
Thank y'all for this. I needed this while cleaning the house on a Sunday morning! 🙏🏿🙏🏿
Great conversation fellas
Nas having “whack beats” is completely Fabricated. It aint hard to tell, take it in blood, nas is like, hate me now, made you look, family, thieves theme, black republican, ny state of mind, book of rhymes, get down, small world, favor for a favor, life we chose, no bad energy, life’s a bitch, represent, the set up, god love us…What are we talking about??
Mike nailed it w ins deck and black thought. Soooo underrated
The problem with a lot of these discussions is that the term greatness is not clearly defined. Everyone is arguing their opinions from their own perspectives... still fun though.
always subjective and really just our personal preferences. we will never agree on who is the best because of the singular experience
Being a 54 year old man from Brooklyn my first memory was "Rappers Delight", but my solidified moment was going to see Biz Markie at the Albie Square mall as a teenager....wow
I whole heartedly agree that 400 Degrees Juvenile was in a bag that people may not realize unless you listen to the songs close enough because it sounds southern and effortless. But ironically that's the point. He kind of effortlessly was flowing his ass off and the songs are catchy yet not corny in a way that deserves their own discussion, but catchy makes people overlook how he was such a game spitter similar to an E40 or Suga Free. This street talk, game spit type rap that requires another gear of genius to turn into song versus which embody everything you want a rap verse to have in it. It's not lyrical miracle but it's Black slang, street game, story telling and song writing genius. He def raised Lil Wayne.
Bomani is right about Juvenile...I didn't need 400 degrees, Solja Rags is what done it for me; when I heard "Money on the Couch"....I was convinced.
I like Juve Mardi Gras mixtape, need more love. Classic
Toure made an excellent point about where we listen to music. Headphones in NYC (and when you are younger), cars for alot of the rest of us. Damn that was a dope observation. As a Detroiter i loved some Three 6 Mafia growing up, but in NY they wasnt playing that shit at all.
My one album is Sticky Fingaz the Autobiography of Kirk Jones... Best concept album of all time. Yep I said it.
Lauryn. Hill. That name. That legacy. She broke the mold on so many levels. The fact that she only released one full studio album makes her an enigma. "The Miseducation..." said everything that needed to be said. Period.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾great conversation. Even the last ten minutes is informative and entertaining.
The fact that yall made me find Nas “I Can” just to say out loud WHERE ARE THE FACTUAL INACCURACIES???
Yeah I read the lyrics and nas information is factual
It was a great convo, a great example of black intellect. It makes me want to pick up a book. Keep it fellas.
Born in '82, Hip Hop has been a part of my life as long as I can remember. I'm right on the same wavelength with Michael.... Black Thought is my favorite MC of ALL TIME, with 3 Stacks up there too. When I was 4, I wanted to BE DMC 😂😅
Finally a genuine, can't be bought, non a$$ kissin' Hip Hop conversation.
Great conversation 🥂
Toure's definitely in touch with his feminine side.
This was a dope ass convo about 50 years in hip-hop and here's to many more! 🍻 🥂
Pac was definitely the most political and was becoming more and more so as he got older. Makaveli was the deepest album ever made by a mainstream rap artist esp at that time! Pure genius!
Intelligent and insightful conversation. Appreciated it. Thank you guys
My favorite rappers who tend to get overlooked looked in these discussions:
Pharoahe Monch
Jadakiss
Freeway
Blu
Cam’ron
Scarface
Mos Def
Phonte
When they started talking about MC Ren being slept on I literally thought if anyone is slept on is Inspector Deck.😂 His inteo versus for triumph is one of the best verses ever. I'm glad someone mentioned him.
This debate was everything!
I fucking love intellectual hip hop conversations! This was dope!