Is Kodak Okay?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2023
- Film manufacturer Eastman Kodak is hanging on by a thread in 2022. Every year Kodak has to put out an annual report for shareholders that goes into the microscopic details about the company's revenue, assets, liabilities, and more. Here's how much money Kodak made in 2022 from the sales of film, branding, printing, and how the company is holding on after bankruptcy.
*Correction: Consumer film production (the film sold to Kodak Alaris) accounted for just $75 million, or a grand total of 6% of Eastman Kodak's revenue last year, with a 15 million dollar increase in those profits directly attributed to "improved" pricing. Film produced for cinema, and other manufacturers like CineStill, Lomography, and other manufacturers that resell film accounted accounted for $105 million of Kodak's total net sales. In total, film sold accounted for $180 million, or 15% of Kodak's bottom line.
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Развлечения
The unprecedented success of Oppenheimer, especially in the interest of seeing it in 70MM IMAX film, is very encouraging. They’ve had to extend their Imax showings TWICE now. Hopefully Nolan and others will continue inspiring Hollywood filmmakers to keep shooting on film!
I'm certain they will! Hollywood cinematographers love film, and many of the biggest ones have signed on to continue using Kodak film for as long as it exists. I'm certain that the next generations will also continue to latch onto it.
The problem isn't the niches. 70mm film is unobtanium. Hell, for most people 16mm or 8mm is unobtanium.
@@theothertonydutch solid point. I tried shooting a 15 minute short film a year ago on 16mm and just couldn’t because our budget shot up another $10K. Ended up going digital.
@@nathanhattaway1616 You can give some quite realistic looking film look by using a piece of film as mask. Shoot at a gray or a white surface develop (just a few feet so the loop in the patterns is hard to notice) then scan and use that when processing your digital footage.
@theothertonydutch according to my local film shop there has been a small but growing demand among Gen z for 16mm and super 8 cameras, film, and developing services. As I said that demand is still very small, too small for said filmshop to actually offer any of those services but it's grown large enough that they've noted it. Apparently specifically within the skater and punk community in an attempt to recreate the look and aesthetic of classic videos from when those cultures were forming.
Can we just appreciate how much work went into this incredibly well researched video. Respect.
kinda wish there was a TLDR haha, i watched at x 1.75 speed
@@d0rifto1 Yes, I skipped a lot of it too as I'm not really interested in what they are doing with their pension funds, etc.
Kodak didn't get killed by digital. Kodak's history with digital is more complicated than people make it out to be. They were one of the best selling digital camera brands in the 2000s, and their easy printing systems were popular. Kodak just invested in the WRONG digital cameras -- everything Kodak sold was point and shoots and that market got destroyed by camera phones. And their at-home printing got destroyed by social media because consumers stopped making prints of life moments.
There are still printing units in photography shops in the netherlands, where you can bring most of your storage media to print pictures on the fly without much hassle. It helped me out a few times in a pinch.
Kodak digital cameras were the WORST; when retailers were flooded with complaints from customers, retailers ceased stocking on Kodak cameras. One would be better off taking photos using their fart than a Kodak digital camera.
@@PSYCHIC_PSYCHO They were cheap cameras. Camera stores might have stopped carrying them but they were still all over Walmart and Target etc which was their target audience anyway
@@35mm21 I am British; here retailers ceased stocking Kodak cameras back in 2008, because they were flooded with customer complaints about Kodak digital cameras being crap. I made the mistake of buying the Kodak P880 digital camera, it's auto-focusing system was so primitive it couldn't focus on a subway train travelling at 15 MPH; plus the shutter lag was unbearably long. Only the Japanese make great cameras.
@@PSYCHIC_PSYCHO Pretty sure I remember them being pushed in Curry's and Dixons for some time. They were garbage though and by 2008, the writing was on the wall with the iPhone coming out the year before and just blowing up.
As @35mm21 said, they invested in an area of photography that just vanished beneath them.
This is extremely helpful. I recently discovered some of my old cameras in boxes and thought it would be fun to shoot film again. The truth is that I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find that film is making a comeback, and to find that Kodak is still alive and kicking.
So glad I watched this! I live in Rochester, 3 miles from their film production facility (where my son interned as an EE last summer), yet I knew nothing about the health of the company. It really interests me, as I have been a film photographer since the 60's, and still am. My dad was a Kodak optical physicist for 40 years, my brother for 35 years and is still a technician for their commercial printers. Love Kodak, and wish them many more years of progress and success!
wish kodak company forever❤
I'm a passionate film shooter for 11 years now and it's my favorite hobby of all time! Thanks for your insight and yes, I also hope Kodak, Ilford, Foma et al. woll stay for a long time!
I remember the Kodak bonus days.. lots of new cars were purchased that week..
What were the Kodak bonus days?
@LearnFilmPhotography Every year Kodak employees would receive a bonus based on their length of employment..it was a big event in Rochester, NY.. this is the way they kept the labor unions from organizing.Some long-term employees would receive substantial amounts of $$$..
Yes, I will always support Kodak and Kodak films - if you watched this video, you should too
Its weird to think that film photography began on black and white, and in the future, that could be the only type of film available..
I've watched more than a couple videos regarding Kodak situation following the prices' increases and I feel that if a casual photographer stumbles upon this video he/she may not appreciate the gold that it actually is. And that's ok, every one of us have different amounts of investments into film photography (financially and emotionally). Having Daren put in so much work and allowing all of us to rationalise it all, is such a precious work for the community ❤
Thank you!
While I was researching the content for this video, I found it fascinating that Eastman Kodak is being held up by their Pension Plan - without it, they'd have a $72 million loss in 2022. Most modern companies stay away from creating them, yet this fund may be one of the only reasons Kodak can pivot into otherwise risky new business ventures. What do you think? And what were your favorite takeaways from this deep dive into Kodak's business?
Where's the link to the I'm back project thing you promised to post
It's in the description now, at the bottom in the sources/resources section. Thanks for pointing that out!
In that regard, KODK is no different than most large telecommunications companies like AT&T.
My take away is finally someone has covered this topic with facts, and realism, and avoided simply parenting business magazines and websites facile snap judgments that we’ve seen for the past 15 years. Thank you. I’ve been shooting from Photography for 50 years so and him still doing it today with my students so I’m less interested in learning film photography, but very interested and seeing factual reports by someone who actually knows how to interpret them and get that out there. Especially the bit about Fujifilm.
It's a pretty good summary of the public information about Eastman. I would be cautious not to over-dramatize things. For instance, there is a difference between spending cash and burning cash. Supply chain issues impacting cash flows might have been mentioned by most companies in the S&P500 with international operations, after Covid. Also extrapolating impact from lawsuits based on past financial statements and cash positions in a balance sheet are quite a leap.
Whether Eastman is doing well or not, they could very well decide tomorrow film is no more core to their business and up to the interests of their shareholders, leading them to simply decide to spin it off and sell it like Alaris wants to... It has been heard often Kodak Film relies mainly on the movie industry. This might be the true indicator whether Kodak film is doing well or not.
I appreciate the feedback here! It's a complex topic, and even in a video of this length, it's very difficult to capture everything perfectly (while also keeping it interesting).
I chose to use burning because that's the colloquial term I typically hear regarding daily spend - I certainly didn't mean to say it was wasted. The parts about the lawsuits were also directly found in the report.
I don't really shoot colour film other than the occasional Ektachrome, but honestly out of all the film manufacturers, I would be most sad if Kodak every actually go out of business. It will sever one major link we photographers have to our history and that would be a loss beyond words.
@@meow69696 "every other color film is a "rebrand" or modification of Kodak filmstock now" is not entirely true. While US market Fuji 200 and Superia 400 are indeed just Gold and Ultramax respectively, that isn't worldwide, and not necessarily permanent; their Provia and Velvia films are definitely not Kodak made. Then there's also Adox and Orwo coming out with new color film, and I'd imagine Ferrania could potentially start remaking Solaris within the next 10 years.
In the Camera Repair industry, of which I am now formerly employed, has raised their prices to repair film cameras. $90.00 was the charge to repair a film camera. Now their prices have allowed to almost 400%. Now one can see $350.00 few just to look at a film camera for repairs. I have been offered a job with my former employer but I turned it down for reason that the job site is some 70 miles away, and it was the CPA who had me removed from this same shop. I do repair cameras on my own time, and I am one of the last repairmen in the South Western United States. Film will never die, all for the exception of CFO who don't have a clue about the industry. Film photography is not about a business for me, it is an art form that Kodak has forgotten about.
kodak and fuji should cooperate and bring all their knowledge and machines together and exist as one brand only for film :)
Yeah, for the people! ✊🏾
It's a good idea at surface level, but then they could just charge whatever the hell they want, and if that company goes out of business it's dunzo for film photography forever.
They do already, the "new" Fuji films are rebadged Ultramax...
I would bring my money to ADOX, Ilford, Foma, Ferrania and Berger instead.
This is the worst idea ever lol.
Fuji does more than just camera stuff though, Kodak would be swallowed up
Shortly after this video Kodak announced they will be continuing to manufacture film until at least 2029 as they renewed their contract to supply film with Alaris. And due to the resurgence of film, it seems likely that it will be past 2029 as well. So we don't have anything to worry about yet as long as another major crisis doesn't upend the world (again).
"We are committed to manufacturing film as long as there is demand from the filmmakers and photographers worldwide... In addition, we continue to see growing demand in our still in motion picture film business."
I'm glad you defended Kodak's foray into digital. They are primarily a chemical and printing company, not an electronics company. The big electronics companies like Panasonic, Sony and Canon are diversified enough to be able to make the large investments for incremental gains. Nikon and Olympus struggle because they were not, and couldn't keep up (Olympus also had other issues that were detrimental). Kodak would have had to essentially start from scratch to change the industry that they were in, trading a huge profit margin for a tiny one, not a good look for any business.
Just an FYI, not all film is sold to Alaris. Motion Picture films, Aerocolor, and large-scale custom film runs are all sold directly from EK. If I had $40,000, I could buy Aerocolor in 35mm or 120, unfinished, and have color film for life at about $4.50/roll for 35mm. You can also get in contact with a company that contracts with Kodak to make sheet films in custom sizes, though it is at a small enough volume that the prices are fairly high (for reference, a ten sheet box of 8x10 E100 was $225 during his last run of that). And CineStill just buys entire master rolls, which are just movie film without remjet, direct from EK as well.
Very well researched as so many have said. One point on the digital transformation you may have missed, was Kodak's state-of-the-art CCD sensor built for Leica's M9, starting in 2009. The grain structure, curves, and light response of these sensors is still today (according to some like me) unparalleled. It photographs very much like Kodachrome, but expanding its dynamic range. That's on the plus side. To the negative, they were not manufactured (originally) to Kodak's or Leica's standards, and they encountered corrosion issues. These were mostly replaced under warranty with a re-engineered sensor that Kodak supplied, which was properly manufactured. This sensor is one of the key reasons that the M9 continues to be so sought after today. Kodak did understand digital photography; they just couldn't find the right path, as you discussed.
That's cool to hear! Do you know if there are any other companies using CCD sensors? That could be a fun video to make.
There aren't. My understanding is that they were too expensive to make, and moreover for today's digital audience, their high-ISO performance was too limited. I rarely shoot mine over ISO 640 if I can help it (but then I came to this from 8x10)...@@LearnFilmPhotography
Great video. I grew up in Rochester NY in the 60s and 70s and Kodak was a behemoth. That and Xerox which was also headquartered there and growing rapidly. A good 70 % of the families in my neighborhood were employed by one of those two companies. It has been sad to see the demise of both companies over the years and the resulting decline of the city (which I moved away from in the 80s). These are great case studies in how companies must continue to pivot and change themselves otherwise complacency will bring them down. The times changed and neither were able to pivot fast enough and both made some fateful bad decisions. Very few have shared the full story of Kodak and your aside about them pioneering digital is often missed. You did a very thorough job of the history and painting the real challenge they face in being able to hang on in the future.
It's really sad to see the decline of Kodak. I've been a film photographer for over 10 years now, but at this point I've am completely switched over to digital (Fujifilm systems). It's just far far too expensive. $20 a roll is insanity. (sometimes over 30 if you account for developing). If photographic film makes up such a small part of their business I don't see why they feel the need to keep raising the prices when it's never gonna make them money.
I've been using film and chemistry for 50 years in many formats. Sad, but even my habits have changed. I began scanning film for 10 years then latterly fully digital. Times change
I read your comment and had to laugh considering what I use to pay for film and chemical back in 1986. I was shooting anywhere from 5 pro packs of 120 film a day, that's 25 rolls a day. In a month depending what season I could go through 300 rolls, plus all the chemistry to process them, and if I was shooting full page ads or catalogue covers I would shoot 4x5 film which at the time was costing me $5 each shot and would go through several 100 sheets a month easily. The one thing you did because of the cost was not waste film, you were careful and had to get your exposure accurate, in focus and carefully composed. I was one of the first in Canada to buy a high-end digital Camera Back, long before digital SLR cameras even were available and even worth wasting the money on. Cost me around $100K to get my first system, which had to be tethered to a Mac and only used in studio for still life. Knew it was the beginning of the end of film and photography as the world knew it, and as I preferred it but man did it save me on film and processing, and opened the door for my business, especially when so few were willing to face reality. Must be a bugger finding processing these days! I wonder of getting 4x5 sheet film processed is even available. Maybe I should fire up my old processor and darkroom again.
Curious why you were shooting film in the first place, perhaps buy a 4x5 and only shoot selectively when you want the quality and colour transparency film provides.
The crazy thing here is a 4x5 sheet of Portra 400 is now just $7.5. If it had kept up with inflation, that would cost $14. It's still crazy expensive, but it seems like film always was.
It is still possible to get 4x5 sheets developed, but definitely harder to find a good place to do it. That said, if you have a good color processing machine for 4x5, I'm certain there are some labs nearby that would happily buy that off you for a good price. Labs are having a hard time keeping up with the rising demand.
@@LearnFilmPhotography Why don't they simply set up a dunk and dip line, you can process far more film in a tank system than a auto film processor. I will have to check my storage and see if I still have all the tanks, racks and reels for a Dunk'n Dip system. The problem with the film processors I have is parts, especially rubber seals, that are most likely dried out. The other problem with a roller transport auto processor is the amount of chemistry you go through as it is one shot and dump. Is there really that much demand for processing, I'd seriously consider opening a lad if I thought it there would be enough demand to justify maintaining a chemistry line. I don't think I would want to do colour print film C41, E6 transparency yes. Would really like to offer high quality BW silver/fibre base archival printing though, and maybe even platinum printing, but very hard to get the needed chemistry etc. I kept most of my Darkroom equipment after shutting down my lab in the 90s, figured one day would return to shooting BW 4x5 and printing large BW. Think i may even have a densitometer, and hydrometers for measuring specific gravity of chemistry.
@@LearnFilmPhotography I even have a couple of full bricks of ilford bw 120 and a case of 4x5 Polaroid type 55 I was saving to use to shoot some fashion and print from the negative, the quality is mind-blowing. Polaroid and ilford bought a number of my prints back in 1990 from a show of fashion work I did at the time, prints were 5ft x 4ft, no grain whatsoever, could see tiny facial hairs.
Incredible episode! Thank you for the knowledge and the effort put into compiling this episode. This deserves more views!
Fantastic video with a very clear explanation. My plan is to keep shooting Kodak film and enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you! And same here. I do believe they'll be around quite a while longer, but these next three years will tell for sure.
Appreciate going into accounting details. Got me nostalgic about the days I was writing these statements with a thought: "how the hell i am supposed to know what actually goes in production? Let's put about uncertain markets here." I just bough a sh*t load of film, i love it, but my next camera is going to be digital (i was thinking about medium format before reserching into current film cituation)
I will continue to shoot film until I physically can't. I'm obsessed with the hobby.
My film inventory right now will last me a couple of years, however, I will continuously add to that inventory with purchases from Kodak of 5222 and several Vision 3 films.
Bulk loading and understanding the process of ECN will allow me to continue shooting both B&W and color film for a long time.
Massive respect on the effort to make this video. There's a lot to unpack in the financials, as a former fin reporting accountant, you did a great job here. A lot of companies leverage debt to operate and often take out new debt or restructure, renegotiate before its due and losses aren't uncommon, they are a tax benefit sometimes. It doesn't look great for Kodak but looking over the past 10 years or 5 year comparative financials tells a story too. Will be interesting to see their next few 10Qs/10Ks and see how Alaris does.
Thanks for that! There's definitely a lot more that can be covered here - it's going to be a super interesting story going forward.
Excellent reporting! I do hope Kodak survives to continue making film, but I’ll continue to support Ilford with my meager B&W film purchases, and Kodak with my even more meager purchases of color film.
although I have a TON of film built up, I'll probably keep buying it to ensure I have the freshest film I can when they finally stop making it.
Super cool video. Thank you for the information and insight. Hopefully, Kodak will be able to continue making film or sell the technology and information to companies who can (maybe Ilford or lomography?). I also really enjoyed your explanation of why Kodak failed to adapt into the digital age. I always knew it wasn’t for lack of trying, but the new perspective on why their approach failed is super cool. Awesome video overall, please make more like this.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
Great video, really well researched. Thanks for taking the time to make it. I've always thought of Kodak as a chemical company.
I think it's very important to have content like this, keep it up! i hope that one day fuji will come back to produce the slides and the pro 400h… it would be nice to have some information about that! Thank you for the effort you put into making your content!
I would love to see Pro400H made again! That would be an amazing day for film photographers everywhere.
this was super informative, especially as a current kodak engineer that survived a layoff. I was in one of the digital print sectors that got cut and currently going to interview for a job over on the film manufacturing line. I'm the 4th generation in my family to work at kodak and I'd love to stay as long as I can. But i'm also interviewing for other positions around rochester as well due to a lot of uncertainty. But you make a lot of great points that are very encouraging for me to stay. Its such a legacy technology and they are the last color film producers because its so complicated. Its almost like they're too big to fail and someone will be intrested in keeping that film legacy alive because you need that 100 years of experience.
I fully believe that there will be enough interest to buy out that facility and continue producing film if Kodak ever does fail - there's a lot of interest in the tech from a consumer standpoint, and even camera manufacturers are investing in making new film cameras. I think they are on the right path, and it will be a tough few years, but it's very encouraging to see they're hiring more people on the film production line.
I wish you the best of luck with the interview!!
@@LearnFilmPhotography thank you!
Thank you for this report, I thought Kodak was doing well compared to Fuji, with the former bringing back discontinued films and Fuji discontinuing film lines.
My take away is we have to wait until the court cases are done. This could be the big wave that takes out the sandcastle. Though, depending how much of the sandcastle is left, Kodak may be able to rebuild.
Fuji and Kodak joining forces to keep producing film makes one wonder if can a long term commensalism relationship (favoring Kodak in keeping them afloat) or better, if a symbiotic relationship is possible. Hopefully doesn't end up like Mercedes and Chrysler's love child.
The question is for those staring out or getting back into color, what should they use? Seems very likely one could become proficient in one film stock only to have it discontinued (had that happen with Velvia).
I believe Kodak will be able to survive the court cases - they will definitely incur some costs, but I don't think it'll be enough to destroy the company.
Fuji is doing better, actually, but that's more because the company diversified themselves fairly early on. Right now Fuji has very profitable ventures in the medical industry. fuji's CEO has said that they only want to keep producing film because it's a legacy product of Fuji. So there's always the chance that in the future, they'll just outsource everything to Kodak. But they also might just pick up production again in their factory (there's a link in the description to KosmoFoto, which released a piece talking about it). If that's the case, then film might get a bit cheaper if there's more demand.
As for a film stock that's safe for beginners, I'd highly recommend Kodak Gold. That's a film stock that will be around for the long haul.
Darren, thank you for the response, much appreciated. 😁
Firstly, regarding the court cases, that was not my impression given by the video, appreciate the clarification. I was honestly really down last night thinking about a world without Kodak and worse, no color film, until found Lomography possibly makes there own color film (some emulsions most likely Kodak Kodacolor VR), Wolfen did a very limited run of color (love to see them move to full production, a beautiful Agfa cinema film), though not including Adox Color Mission as the company seems to have flawed company culture and doubt their longevity (ex. just talk of re-releasing CMS 20 II in 120 for over four years and seems no progress).
Secondly, regarding Fuji, why terminating so many film stocks? I will look into the article.
Thirdly, I am not a beginner, sorry was not clear. I shot Gold from the time I was 12 though Junior College, then studies consumed all my time. Dad passed and I inherited three Olympus OM bodies and a few lenses, now all told have five OM bodies (I had forgot even had a spare body) and five non 50mm lenses, so been saving up for developing at home (spurred by not finding any USA lab processing C6, have a 1980s 135 Ektachrome Dad forgot to develop and my roll of Velvia to develop), then get back to taking landscape pictures. Gold is okay, but it is a consumer film. Just this morning stumbled on Kodak Pro Image, a professional-consumer film, B and H has it about $10 a roll. Nice feature is designed for warm and humid climate, I live in the Sonoran Desert and we have warm summers followed by warm and humid monsoon season (though when not in the camera be in the freezer or refrigerator). If Kodak is not going anywhere, this seems a good film for the intermediate photographer, right?
Cheers,
Adriel
Thanks for making this informative and fascinating video! Keep it up!
I've sold all my digital gear (except for the Canon and the macro I digitise negatives with), and won't go back unless everything stops... which I don't think it will. I primarilly shoot black and white, so I'm quite content with being limited to stocks like SVEMAFOTO from Ukraine, or Ilford from the United Kingdom or FOMAPAN from Czechslovakia. Colour for me is for those special occasions, but if it were gone, it will not make huge differences to my workflow.
Hopefully if troubles happens with Kodak's colour side of things, a well-financed company or individual with an appreciation for the dark arts of film swoops in to save the day.
Brilliant, well-structured video with some great tidbits of information sprinkled inbetween the big stuff!
*Czech Republic not Czechoslovakia 😀 the latter doesn't exist since 1993
That’s why I’m sticking with ilford, prices are still decent compared to Kodak film stocks. But I love b&w, so to each their own.
t was my understanding that Eastman Kodak sold the cinema film directly and not through Alaris. My understanding is that Alaris sold only the "consumer" film
Yes, that is true. Eastman Kodak does handle some direct film sales for Hollywood, as well as to CineStill, Lomography, and potentially Fuji.
The fact that Ektachrome seems to have re emerged because of a couple of big orders for Euphoria suggests movie film is still really important to that division of Kodak.
For sure! I believe motion picture film represented about 30-40% of Kodak's film sales. I'm having a hard time tracking it all down, but cinema is likely the reason Kodak can continue to make film.
woah just came across this video, very well informed, incredible work!
Minor correction/context for Kodal Alaris' finances: all private companies above a certain size in the UK are required to publish full accounts ("small" can publish abridged accounts). UK law just makes timing a bit funky (companies have 9 months to upload their accounts to Companies House from the end of the the accounting period, and that period varies by company and typically runs annually from the date the company was founded and is separate from the HMRC financial year - some companies line them up, many don't).
I though Kodak was legit out of business shortly after that bankruptcy. That they're still toughing it out in the low end point and shoot camera category makes me hopeful they stick around. On the other hand, I know that Fujifilm still seems to be heavily involved in the higher end consumer camera industry. Had no idea they were in any trouble at all.
Great content, deserves more views!
I continue buying Kodak stock, but my life circumstances have lead to me shooting fewer photos (time+opportunity are the main issues, price of film not so much).
Kudos to you for putting this together. I will certainly continue to buy Kodak film, despite its cost. With the implementation of AI in photography, my expectation is that provenance will play a key part in the future of the photographs. There's nothing more representative of truth than the negative. It may be the time to go back to the future.
I am interested to see how this plays out, but I suspect you're correct! It would be interesting to see the press start using film cameras again (right now some organizations only allow photographers to shoot in jpeg, because RAW files are easier to tamper with) since there may come a day when that's the only way to prove an image is real.
Dont forget that those that want to fake it can make negatives from AI images...tho its more work but can be done....but good point either way.
@@SchroderPhotography That's when you see people with color images and tri-x film borders.
I live in Rochester NY and I didn't know half of these things. What an excellent review. Thank you.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it!
This is exceptional work man!! Well done! Truly awesome
Thank you!
I definitely will be buying film, because if we don’t buy , they definitely won’t survive.
Great job with incredibly valuable info. As to your question, yes, I do plan to continue to shoot film, albeit mostly B & W. Over the last year, I purchased a mint Nikon F6, a Mint F5 and two in excellent condition F100s. I also own a consumer grade Nikon N80 that still works well.
The Titan Sub Collapsed in 1 millisecond. That is slower than the amount of time it would take customers and partners to buy Kodak film assets if they got into trouble. Think of their actual or rumored customers... Sony... Disney... MGM/Amazon... Fujifilm... They are happy with Kodak's role in their ecosystem. The small players benefit as well. Kodak is small but they are of great interest to everyone when it comes to film!
The first digital camera was developed at Kodak and they said it wouldn’t over take film. Their arrogance is what caused digital to kill Kodak. Wish there was a way for us to start a new business to buy Kodak and have Kodak owned and run by the people who use the products
Thank you for this valuable information!! I would like to add a small piece of the puzzle for all colour analogue photographers: ORWO, former G.D.R. film manufacturer has introduced a new colour film.
Thanks for this insightful, well done video !
Great analysis. I also think you’re right about the timing - the next three years will tell. I’m heavily invested in film cameras, but I just bought a new digital camera two months ago. I’m hedging my bets..
That's always one of my fears when buying a new film camera that costs over $1000 - if film goes away or gets too expensive, is this thing going to be worth less than a couple hundred bucks again? That's why I'm only using cameras that can have a digital back.
,@@LearnFilmPhotography Good thinking..
I think I spent about $74 million on film last year, so these numbers seem about right.
Great video! However, after watching this I began to wonder why Kodak would be in the film business at all. Film is a sensitive, complicated, troublesome thing to produce with little contribution to the bottom line. For the same investment, you could buy up some McDonalds franchises, and be just about as far ahead.
Further, if Fuji is indeed leaving the manufacturing to Kodak, that is a huge wake up call. Kodak now knows any trade secrets that make Fuji Fuji. Fuji apparently does not care, has written off the development costs and seems to be content with running out the life of the product, goodwill and all. Fuji has made the jump to digital in fine form and has less reason to look back with each passing day. I'll bet that their future 'film' offerings are digital presets.
Bottom line: film prices will not be coming down soon, which will further decimate the market resulting in even fewer choices. Myself, I had been in the process of ramping up my Dad's Miranda Sensorex and my OM 2 for another romance with film. But not at these prices. I'll put a few rolls through for old times sake, but that will be it and then back to digital and my Sony A7riii.
Film is still profitable for Kodak, even if it's not much, it is helping them to fund other ventures, and they just signed a deal with Alaris to continue making film until 2029, so at least we have that assurance.
One interesting thing about the Fuji deal is that Kodak was actually using Kodak Gold and Ultramax for the fuji lines - the technical data sheets that Fuji published were pretty much identical to the Kodak films. So I suspect that Fuji didn't give Kodak the secrets to creating their film, which may mean Fuji begins production again when their supply chains get back in order. I put a link to an article in the description about how Fuji is looking to restart film production again.
But, you may be correct, that in the future, Fuji film could just become a simulation. They have discontinued much of their lines, and have destroyed some of their goodwill. And I feel you on the prices. They are definitely getting out of hand. I'm happy I stocked up on Portra, but there is a future where I never shoot it again, because it's just too expensive now.
@@LearnFilmPhotography Here’s how i compare cost then and now, since I first started buying film in the 70s. In the 70s when I was working a fast food job to buy film for my Olympus, or for my super8 Camera, overall it usually cost me about somewhere between 1 1/2 to 2 hours of working a minimum wage job. Whereas today Film appears to cost about 1 to 2 hours of working a minimum wage job in the United States.(this applies to the states in the US that have finally corrected minimum wages back up to where they should’ve been all along the last 15 years -at least $15 an hour. ) I’m in Seattle and the starting wage now is not even the minimum wage at most fast food restaurants; is $18-$21 an hour. So how many hours does it take to work at a fast food restaurant to buy a roll of film now?
For everyone who thinks Film is somehow more expensive now than it used to be. Here’s a reality check - it was always expensive. And that was why we didn’t shoot hundreds or thousands of pictures a year if we didn’t have a lot of income. We bought a roll at a time, and we were careful with what we shot. for me, that is part of what is fun and interesting about film photography- taking a picture at a time. And really trying to get each one as good as we could get it. But I sure did envy the when I would read about the big magazine and sports photographers, who could just burn through dozens of rolls of film! :-)
Great video! Thank you.
2/3 years ago colorplus was 4.5€, now it's 15,5€; Gold was 5.5€, now 17,9€; Portra 400 was 11€, now 20,90€ - all in 135 rolls. My Portra 800 120 film is 29€ a roll!
This said, I was all in favor of Kodak raising prices, but one thing is 30%, another thing is more than 300% for some rolls, whilst the lowest was 200%, from what I've seen.
Love film photography, have a bunch of 35mm cameras both fully analog and electronic, Zeiss glass, Mamiya medium format, but there is no way I'm supporting this, regardless of how much I like it.
In perspective, a roll of Portra 800 in 120 is 15 frames on my mamiya 645, plus 15€ for the cheapest file format and size scan on a frontier - which in Portugal will cost you the same as a Epson scan. So, 29€ for the roll + 15€ for the worst scan quality you can get = 44€ = ~3€ a frame. The reality is that I'll use it only for commercial work and only when requested, so it also means I won't be getting a low res JPEG for 15€, but a high res tif for almost 40€, so that's 69€ for 15 frames, or 4,6€ a frame.
By the way, Colorplus, Gold (135) and UltraMax have been impossible to get for the last 2 years - which is for how long I've had my order for 15 of each of the mentioned films, for.
So: Stupidly expensive, unavailable for years, and costs raised so that they could make more of them - supposedly, 'cause I see none.
They can keep their film =)
The American market has it bad, but no where near as bad as the European market. Do you ever have people asking you to shoot professional projects on film? And at those costs, why not scan the film yourself with a digital camera and macro lens?
@@LearnFilmPhotography only huge brands like Levi’s and such will pay the extra for film (because all their store and billboard photos are film, usually medium format). Well, to be fair, huge swimwear brands will also pay for that, but no one else. Most clients want the film look taken on digital, which to be fair isn’t the hardest thing to do if you’ve done it for awhile. Can a professional spot the difference between digis and film? Most likely, but not their target consumers.
Regarding costs, what the lab quotes for their budget should be at least the same you charge, unless you think their time is worth more than yours. I have a scanner and was going to change to DSLM scanning, but at those film prices I just don’t want to give them a single dime. BTW, scanners are perfectly good for scanning 645 film or bigger, the biggest difference would be for anything smaller.
I don't think you're looking in the right places if you're paying 17,50 euro for Gold. Check online rather than the photo store.
Bulk rolled vision3 is 5-7 eur per roll, bulk rolled fomapan is 3 eur per roll. If you shoot a lot not bulk rolling is cringe
Very good summary - Thank you!
I almost exclusively shoot in B&W. I used to buy TriX a lot..no more...their prices have become too expensive..their B&W film have doubled in the last 2 years where I'm located and are double that of Ilford. TriX is also not the same film as it once was as the new version contain less silver and more dyes). The only "reasonably" priced Kodak color is Aerocolor IV, which is not sold by Kodak to consumer directly buy rather by smaller outfits who buy Aerocolor in bulk and spool them, for example Santa Rae 100, Popho, Film Washi, Flic etc. These spooled films are significantly cheaper than Portra and Extar. It is an excellent film, great colors and sharp - developed as surveillance film. As for chemistry I bought as much D76 as I could (I've got the Sinopromise version which was still manufactured in Rochester). Also Adox is now selling D76 - apparently Kodak has not renewed their patents on D76 allowing Adox to step in.
Absolutely agree. New TriX is nothing like it’s older incarnation. I haven’t shot a single roll of it since 2019. I use Ilford now for BW exclusively, along with some other smaller brands for fun. Also, spot on about Aerocolor, it’s a fantastic film, great colors, sharp, as mentioned. Been using that for color lately.
Vision3 exists
Chapeau bas! I can only imagine how much time it took to get all the information needed to prepare this market analysis. Great job! And yes, I will continue buying film. I recently purchased 20 rolls 135 and 30 rolls 120 :-)
Thanks! That's a lot of film! How long does that usually last you?
@@LearnFilmPhotography Probably until the end of 2024.
This could've been an episode on Suits.
Great break down and insights.
Yea, only when film is no longer available I will have my film cameras digitalised.
It would be a very sad day and it’s harder to buy film with the prices being up so high.
Hopefully it will not be the end of film 😢
Really interesting, and educational. Thank you.
I really loved this video, amazing insights explained easy. I wonder, how do you get to know all this info, only looking at their balance sheet 😮
In their yearly filing they have to literally tell investors everything about their business (other than trade secrets that could be used to undermine them) so investors can do their due diligence before buying or selling their stocks. It's really amazing how much info they put in these docs.
Most interesting video I've watched today. Hope Kodak manage to escape out of this, even with the prices of film being high and film stocks sold out regularly, if Kodak are doing this poorly all those portra400 shooters will be in trouble.
I personally believe at this point, if Kodak were to go under, there will be some other company that'll buy up their equipment and patents to create color film like The Impossible Project did with Polaroid. The only question is whether or not that would cause another spike in prices.
So disappointing that Kodak potentially found a way out with that pharma deal but the greed of executives ruined it for them, and possibly ruined film in the future for us
yes, i will continue to use and buy film in 2023 even when prices go up.
I will continue to buy film and photographic paper in 2023 but alas, not from Kodak. I used Kodak film and paper for 30 years but because of the rapid and steep price increases, now it's Ilford film and paper and chemistry from a variety of sources. I have shot black and white almost exclusively for most of my photographic journey and despite a sentimental fondness for the Great Yellow Father, Kodak has priced themselves beyond my reach. And let's be honest, the only thing I sacrificed when switching to Ilford was the color of the box the film and paper comes in.
I get that for sure. I also don't buy as much Kodak film as I used to after all the price increases. Hopefully there aren't more to come if the PPF sells Kodak Alaris. And Tbh, I've always found HP5 was a better film than Tri-X - it captures way more shadow detail and pushes far easier.
One of the best film photography videos I’ve seen…👍🏾💪🏾👊🏾
Thank you!
Amazing video. I would love to see one about Fujifilm, especially since they've discontinued Pro 400H.
Thank you! I can take a look into Fuji for sure. The hardest part is the translations, but it will be worth doing for sure. I'd also love to do a video like this on Lomography and Ilford, though it's a little tougher to get real info on those companies since they're private.
Fuji are done, they are just selling up their remaining stocks. They don’t even sell domestically in Japan anymore. They are just trying to get as many of those sweet US dollars for their remaining stocks and they will focus on their other businesses.
@@LearnFilmPhotography Yes please do a video about Fujifilm. There's so much speculation and misinformation. This will be a real challenge to find the truth. I can't buy fresh Provia or Velvia anywhere in the world right now.
Imagine if film just goes away. 💔
That will be a sad day if it ever comes! I truly hope it doesn't.
I loved the video, I will recommend you add more graphs and charts. Thanks !
I will do that for the next one!
I'm a very passionate photographer...was mainly digital for my 1st 10 years, then picked up film a year and half ago....the prices just keep creeping up every couple months. And i shoot A LOT. Even with me developing all of my B&W and scanning all of my color negs, it's still just too expensive to shoot the higher end stocks. I plan on selling my Mamiya RZ67 Pro ii kit while it still fetches a pretty penny. Looks like I will be doing digital for all my color work (Ricoh GR/fuji systems) and sticking to B&W 35mm only for film
The current state of Kodak Alaris does raise a concern for me. Haven't heard any updates since April when the company was apparently looking for a new ownership.
I suspect we won't hear anything until a sale is announced, unfortunately.
Alaris is effectively a middleman. If Eastman could buy it they’d increase their margin and have control of the recommended retail price for photographic colour film.
As a distributor Alaris sure make an easy job appear difficult. Currently we have a bizarre situation where it’s as easy to buy rebranded cinema film (produced and sold by Eastman, then rebranded by small companies) as it is official Kodak products.
@@mynewcolour That is absolutely true. The only problem is if Kodak has the ability to raise enough funds to buy it back. Looking into Alaris's annual reports, it made around $30 million from distributing film internationally. So that means Kodak's revenue off film would increase from $75 to around $100 million. It would be great for film photographers, but that would raise Kodak's debt astronomically at a time when interest is outrageously high. I wish I could see how much Alaris is being valued at in its current piecemeal state.
@@LearnFilmPhotography Good point. I also wonder if ownership of Alaris includes commitments/debts to UK pensions.
@@mynewcolour When Kodak gave Alaris to the UK Kodak Pension plan, that essentially absolved Kodak of it's commitments to the pensioners. They gave them that business so they could generate their own revenue to make investments and keep paying the pensioners. The UK Kodak Pension Plan then built up the company, and actually transferred all of their assets in the non-profit Penion Protection Fund, which is now selling off Alaris's assets to invest in other ways. So if Kodak did buy it, they wouldn't have any obligations to the UK Penion Protection Fund.
Thank you for this!❤
I still love shooting film and will shoot as long as I can. Its a great medium and alot of fun to shoot.
Jacking their prices up last year did not help. There's a fine line between the price the current market would bear, and the point at which folk would just buy and shoot less colour film, and Kodak's price hikes passed that line for a lot of photographers.
For example, from around 24 rolls of colour a year, I now shoot three or four, and that loss of revenue for Kodak is not made up by their price increase per roll. And I am sure I am not alone in buying a lot less Kodak film.
My film cameras won't be bricked as I also shoot Ilford black and white, and now I just shoot more of it. Kodak's loss is Ilford's gain.
I think that's a common sentiment a lot of people have. The thing is, Kodak was already having trouble keeping up with demand since they broke down many of their machines in the past. So there have been sporadic shortages of many film stocks over the last couple of years specifically. Raising their prices did move a lot of shooters to B&W, but that may mean they are now starting to meet demand, which I think is true - at least for medium format shooters, who are seeing some price decreases more recently.
Annual report photography went south as the web became strong. Perception of producing a cost effective 10k while keeping the great imaging online is marketing.
I am returning to the use of film to create. If needed, I will even go to creating glass plate to provide unique images.
My background is a professional photographer doing annual reports in the ‘90s. Started using electronic cameras in the late `80s.
Amazingly well done analysis (frankly, a lesson, in itself, on how to do a financial presentation . . I don't think it's an exaggeration to imagine Kodak executives, themselves, watching this video and learning a few things from it!) Bravo.
Great video! I didn’t know the situation with Kodak was so dire. I wonder if crowd sourcing could be used to help Kodak keep up og increase film production?
Thank you! The problem with Kodak is they scrapped their machines to make film, and laid off the engineers who built them in the 2010s. And those machines just can't be built anymore - not only because of the cost, but also because of a lack of international expertise remaining in the field.
Crowd sourcing is good for capital but no replacement for a sound business model.
It's a pity, one big stroke of financial disaster will wipe out the science genius of decades (and centuries). Intellectual properties like this should become national (or global) treasures.
For sure, that's the worst part about all of this. Film photography was one of the greatest technological advancements of the 20th century. It will be the end of an era if Kodak does disappear, though I do think this time someone will take over - the same way the Impossible Project was able to resume making Polaroid film.
I wonder if there are cooperative and/or non-profit structures that could help them pivot in a way that makes sense make sure their film business is here to stay?
@@meow69696 don't I know it! I donated to bring Ferrania back into business ten years ago. As far as I know they still haven't been able to produce any color film with their new, smaller facilities, and nothing at scale for motion picture stock at all.
I find your assumption interesting that one would buy film cameras only if there were color film. I have shot film for over 50 years. I did switch to digital and enjoy that medium a lot. There are many advantages to digital. However, I never stopped shooting film. I still own my last "recent" film cameras and have purchased more film cameras. However, about 90% of my film shooting is BW film. Every now and again I shoot color. I buy it mostly to support continued production. I roll my own vision 3 film and I have a roll of Kodak aerocolor IV film and bulkload that also. I also periodically buy portra and ektar--again mostly to support film. However, about 90% of my color shooting is done with digital cameras not film. I buy film cameras basically to shoot BW so a loss of color would not keep me from acquiring additional cameras. So, even if, god forbid, kodak color film collapses, I would still shoot BW film. I think we own the motion picture industry a lot of thanks for continued color film productions. Because their purchase of 35mm/70mm color movie film help subsidize the consumer color film production.
You make a good point there, but I personally believe most film photographers are interested primarily in color film. Certainly there will be many of us who still love shooting black and white, but losing color film would likely see a dramatic decline in camera sales. I will have to try to track down Ilford's numbers to see that split.
I admit that I am a bit like you, I do have a digital camera that I use for colour, but most of my photography is B&W. Having said that, I do have some colour film in the freezer, but I cannot remember the last time I used any colour film
thanks for the deep dive. some of the little shooters from "kodak" is the new HF35
That camera is awesome! I have one, and I enjoy using it very much.
thanks for sharing
This was fascinating. Well done. My Impression is that Kodak will be fine but has little motivation to continue its film/chemistry division. And that’s all I care about.
perfect comment... we all only care about one thing about kodak and it is the most fragile sector of the entire product range, little margin and production difficulties make kodak's big bosses turn up their noses
This was a nice, thought-provoking, treatment that makes one wonder if Kodak would have been in better shape after the decline in the snap shot market if they had maintained their rivalry with high end consumer camera makers before and after WWII. I love my Medalist . What if there had been a Medalist III-X? My Retina XX,..Ectra mrk 2..., etc, When you consider that Graflex was Eastman innovation too, it certainly makes one root for Rochester's return to technological glory.
I'd like to bet that they could have. They certainly had the money to pursue that market, and they had developed so many patents that were used in high-end camera markets. They also had the brand recognition and the trust needed to make it in the expensive markets. But it seems like Kodak only ever wanted the easy money.
Kodak used to make (import) a line of really nice 35mm film cameras.. The Kodak Retinas were made in Germany and were a nice alternative..super quiet shutter and great optics.. I enjoy using mine..
The Retina cameras were the only time they tried to make something premium. It's such a shame they didn't continue in that direction. I suppose there could have been an anti-trust lawsuit if they ever did completely corner the market for both cameras and film, hahah.
God bless! Really well Kodak company explanation! Done really well!
Thank you!
Well done!
Solid work
One of my favorite cameras is my Olympia e500, which uses a Kodak sensor. Fun fact.
I know it seems like a longshot, but I wonder if Kodak has an ability to make cameras again, akin to Fuji's X100v. Like you said, Kodak has some equity with it's film. To get their film profiles onto decent digital gear, it could be a step towards making something photographers want. I wouldn't bankrupt the company all on one product, but putting some intentional effort into developing something new...could be a step in the right direction,.
There could be some money in that, but digital camera sales have been on the decline for a while now. I think there has been some resurgence with mirrorless, and definitely with the X100V. But for Kodak to get in there and compete would be a monumental effort at this point, and would be a tough sell. They could get an easier entrance by joining the L-Mount Alliance, but then they still have to make a camera body that's different enough to stand out, or reach a niche audience. I think they would need to be out of their debt before they considered moving in that direction.
Maybe I missed something on this excellent analysis, but it seems to me that 2022 figures doesn't refer that at that time we can't find film to buy on the market, there's an almost total shortage of stock
@LearnFilmPhotography that is true for now, if you have ever had to explain to someone why their cellphone pictures can only go to 8x10, you know they are pissed. There are also some social indicators that may lead to people returning to film, namely the return of flip phones and the growing miss trust in tech. (People want a type of privacy, privacy phones cant provide but negatives can....)
Great video!
Well from what I heard. They started 24/7 shifts since they cannot keep up the demand for film.
Great Video!
Thank you!
Fridge sales are looking much better after this video released.
On a serious note, sad to see this, fingers crossed for Kodak. 🤞
People will always need fridges! That's never going to chance even if the tech does.
I think Kodak can pull through, but there's definitely nothing certain about their future.
great job
Thank you for the great video. One thing I’m confused about… if they only made $26million in profit in 2022, how do they hope to pay off a $300million loan coming due in a few years? Are they already making the payments and that is one of the numbers eating into their revenue?
That's the real question. They have been showing year over year profit growth, but certainly not enough to pay off the entire loan in 2026. At their size, Kodak is able to take out loans that they only have to pay the interest until a certain date where they can just refinance. And that's what they're doing right now - just paying down that interest, and slightly touching the principle. I personally believe in 2026 they will pay down a chunk of it and refinance another 250 million or so and then keep doing what they're doing.
Interesting, I watched a RUclipsr doing a walk through the Kodak color film process in NY. I thought that film might be on a new revival. I will continual to buy film for my Canon A-1 and Pentax Sportmatic. I only shoot about one roll of film a month! So if film gets to be too expensive for me I will just use my Sony digital cameras.
I just purchased a Spotmatic SP with the 50mm 1.4 (thorium version). I'm happy to start shooting film, but I'm not a fan of the prices. Happy shooting!
this was some great accounting!
Fuji doesn't have any problem. It actually is giving Kodak a head start.
Exellent video. Verywell done.
I already own a ton of film cameras and I have enough film stock but yeah, I am going to keep buying film!