What an idiot do some research this is nothing new jfc still can't beat an hcca idiots go to Alibaba design and produce any woofer you dream of n sundown u can keep that 300 percent Chinese mark up god worse than jl junk lmao
@@christopherparis6841 if you were as critical about your obesity as you are car audio then you would be in much better health. Being severely obese for so many years will sadly be your demise if you do not begin living a healthy lifestyle. Something you should take care of & with New Years right around the corner you should make getting healthy your New Year resolution. ☮ 🌎
This is why america is great because of men like him design and build amazing products that surpass all other countries. Good job guys can't wait till there is a pair ripping every bolt nut screw from my car 🚗 thumbs-up 👍
@@2869may i really think they gave the work to someone here in the states but they did try China first . I believe they did try China first only so that it was cheap enough for us consumers to afford . But I do agree let's keep manufacturing here just is going to volt more for us initially but it will definitely bring pay rate up here eventually
@@danielwarbucks2469 I'll admit it's hard to compete with china made products when large profit margins are first and foremost the main concern.... If you produce a quality product at a fair price, you could make just as much money in volume of sales. If you're a popular brand, but it is a difficult balance in this day and age with so many competing brands... and all the money stays in our country and boosts our economy, and for that reason more people are looking to buy American made products.
That’s very impressive, way back in the day I was a Memphis dealer and we used to demo in the showroom how smooth the excursion was on the studio series subs VS the higher powered HP sub because of the multi roll surround. Those studio subs also had a multi size multi roll surround. Obviously not on the same level as this but seemed like great tech for those days and they performed very well for us. Well done!
YayyCrazy you definitely are not wrong! I want a Sundown TEAM subwoofer so bad! But I can't bring myself to let go of that much $ for two subwoofers. Not when I can get the same rms rating for $800 less by getting an Audio Legion Emperor, or around $500 less for the Resilient Sounds TEAM woofer. The TEAM Sundown woofer I'm sure is superior especially compared to the other two I listed but $3200+ is A LOT of $ to spend on two subwoofers. Lol that's more than I paid for my car that I use as my bass beater. I really wish Sundown Audio would do two things: 1. Start selling their products straight to the consumer from their website like Skar does. 2. Drop the prices on all of their subwoofers by at least 20-25%. Imo the prices for the Zv5 & Nightshade subwoofers are a little high. Can get other nice woofers with same rms ratings for less $ and they are nice quality subwoofers as well like Sundown. Just my .02 cents, either way I still like Sundown & refuse to bash them.
@@maincharacter2677 I've never owned JL gear. I remember back in my teenage years everyone was on the JL Audio & Kicker bandwagon. Maybe I'd feel different if I had actual firsthand experience with JL subs but imo they are priced too high & too low of rms ratings. Like I said I could be wrong & might actually love them if I had experience with them. But right now I'm in the market for two 5k rms rated 15" subwoofers & far as I know of JL doesn't make such an animal. (If they did it'd be $10k per woofer & i couldn't afford it lol) Though I will say that I've never heard a JL owner complain or bash their subwoofers but they do seem to be oriented towards SQ rather than SPL.
@@itdoesntmatterwhatyourname6128 grab PSI woofers they are thee shit. I have a platform 2 in a 12 and it absolutely slams. I've had just about every brand of woofers out there and the PSI is by far the best ones for the price
I remember when the CV Vegas came out they were tearing the spiders from over excursion. The surround could travel way more than spider allowed . I remember the shop that I hung out at the owner would show me free airing pointing out the flaw.
Back then I ran 4 Vega Vega 10's in a Sierra, 2 12's in a pathfinder, 2 15's in a Pontiac grand prix, I made some hella pounding assed systems with them old subs. Had my dealer's license so they were soooo freaking cheap too!!!!! I personally loved the Vega Vegas. Had a ton of fun. Built enclosures with subs facing back, down, 6th order, 4th order. Again for the price and it being the early 2000's....... damn it was fun!! Then came along the ol alpine type r.... Whole. New. Level. They were invincible compared to the Vegas in power handling. Again pounded too. I became obsessed with 6th order parallel boxes and it's hard af room wise to run more than 2 but even with only 2..... pounded and sounded amazing. Never bottomed out, just clean, clean, clean!!!!
Anyone else hate the fact sundown is calling it the mega W surround?? Come on now........ give credit where credit is due. Cerwin Vega.... thank you for your creating of the Vega Vegas
In reality I’m just being a hard ass. The design of this surround is pretty innovative even though it’s sacrificing cone area. But as long as the soft parts are able to move a lot without making any inherent noise I guess it’s ok.
So If I understood correctly the only advantage of this surround is it's progressive nature at full excursion to help take stress off the spider? Also, unless my math is wrong wouldn't this give less excursion than the current megaroll surrounds? Zv.5 lists 4" peak to peak which is 101.6mm where this is claiming a 60mm peak to peak.
You are not understanding this at all, no. There is a difference between 100% flat CMS and maximum excursion (which is generally understood as a 50% change).
Type r alpine were like these. When doing spl it's not good bc the surround can fold if air bubbles back behind the surround and cause incorrect coil travel. But all in all. Awesome xmax
@@kford9467 No, he was insinuating that this sub would be plagued with the same problems. I pointed out that they covered all of that in the video. You cool off "bro".
Looks amazing made in the USA lot of respect. do you have any concerns that at medium to low volume at certain frequencies that's there may be a lot of back pressure in the speaker cabinet and maybe have a weird affect what they flatter style design of the w? also are you combat in anyting effects that may happen with a very stiff material?
1998 I had 2 Cerwin Vega XL 12s with the W surround. Glad someone finally copied the design! That CV had to be the best sub of the 90s, with it's 94db sensitivity and massive excursion. Not to mention that was when CV was an american company and the SQ was incredible on a big Class A amp.
Now, since we're looking at a new surround on what appears to be a smaller cone, how does one correctly calculate cone displacement (Sd)? The old way of "inside to outside" won't work with this as the surround is nearly folded in on top of itself at rest and appears to become a negative displacement as the cone travels. I'd love to see how the Fs and Qts changes as the cone enters the Xmax regions. #Hexibase should get his hands on this and test it from 1 to 1,000 watts to get an idea of what will happen.
I dunno if I like that Mega W.... I'm used to the classic sundown mega Roll.. the huge ass monster phat ass Surround lol. This looks like it came from the 1960s with that surround or a Stroker lol. But knowing Jacob this Sub prob kicks absolute ass. It's unique.. anyway Im waiting on the Z 8" and NS 8"... But I gotta feeling the NS 8" is going to have this w surround.. I picked up a Zv5 12" finally pretty excited about it.. swapping out my SAv3 8"s for the Zv5 12".. can't wait to hear the diff ;)
These surrounds (M-roll, vega-flex) have difficulty with "suck-back" - in a small sealed enclosure, negative pressure inside the box created during the out-stroke wants to pull the surround profile inward. With a large single-roll surround, the entire surround profile is thicker, and unrolls in one direction only, so it's all loaded in a bending in only one direction. If you had an S-shaped surround, one roll is unrolling outward while the other roll is unrolling inward, but there is always an inflection point in the profile (between the out roll and in-roll) where the surround is not flexing very much, and that is the unloaded part of the surround. It's very easy to take that unloaded part of the surround and pull it one way or the other, even at high stroke, whereas a normal roll surround is bending and receiving tangential stress more evenly across its full surface. The same is true with M, W, and other surround shapes with multiple rolls - they have these inflection points. Alpine's HAMR has less trouble with this because the additional rolls in the surface of the surround are small relative to the surround thickness, so the minor rolls are actually stiffer compared to the major roll part of the profile. Pro audio subwoofers with accordion surrounds also don't have as much trouble with this because the surround material is relatively very stiff compared to rubber or foam used in roll surrounds, and this is desired for the application - even high-excursion applications. Be careful to test for suck-back effects in small enclosures; there are drawbacks in every design.
Acoustic Theory while I do believe you contribute valuable information for some with your comment. BUT my thoughts keep going back to the idea that the majority of people buying this sub will be using it in a ported enclosure, right? Which negates some issues that you mentioned, unless they do happen to be putting this subwoofer in a sealed enclosure. Right? Or am I wrong? Its possible I may have missed something. I'm not a car audio or tech pro but any means. I'm just a fella who loves music & heavy bass. Just from my experience it seems 90% or more of Sundown subwoofer customers end up putting their subs in ported enclosures because they like high SPL.
@Acoustic Theory lol I know I already commented once but this was on my mind & thought you may be able to get me on track to understanding the excitement. The video seems to really hype up that this new surround will give the the sub a 60mm xmech (p2p exc) which should be 30mm xmax (1 way exc). Why is that supposed to be so great when Sundown already has other subwoofers that feature more than 30mm xmax & more than 60mm xmech?? For example the Zv5 & Nightshade woofers both have more than 30 mm one way excursion (xmax) & both woofers have over 60 mm peak to peak excursion (xmech). Acoustic Theory am I missing something or have I simply misunderstood something? I've got that feeling like something has flew right over my head. 😳🤯
@@itdoesntmatterwhatyourname6128 This new surround configuration is supposed to produce less change in stiffness over the required amount of stroke than a single roll surround. We can make moving-coil motors with crazy long stroke, but the suspension components are starting to reach practical limits for deformation, to the point where new design ideas are needed.
@@Acoustic_Theory ok, so if I'm understanding correctly, even though this new 'W' roll surround isn't increasing excursion more than what current woofers have been producing & are capable of. This new surround WILL benefit us in the fact that it reduces strain on the coils, tinsel leads, soft parts, etc of our subwoofers? If I'm finally understanding this correctly then the new 'W surround' will give us increased woofer life & the ability to push our subs that much harder. Acoustic Theory please do not hesitate to correct me anywhere I am wrong. I'm a sponge for knowledge & would much rather be quickly corrected vs being incorrect and not even aware of my errors. I'm indeed human.
@@itdoesntmatterwhatyourname6128 It may provide reduced strain, but the main benefit is less change in stiffness over the operating excursion range of the speaker; when surrounds reach the limits of their travel, they contribute to an increase in distortion, so this won’t do that until about 60mm stroke.
When is this surround going to become an option for the nsv5 12 on your website. Can I pre-pay now to get one when they.are released? Who do I contact at Sundown about this?
Progressive spiders are progressive in currougation shape. Meaning they start off smaller and progressively larger to maintain the same stiffness. Linear roll means each roll is the same shape and corrugation height.
@@tammyforbes2101 We're in the middle of a fucking pandemic with million upon millions of people without jobs. The food lines are literally miles long. And you tell someone to "nut up" when they say they cant afford something? I hope your heartless ass catches covid.
Nice, nice, NOYCE!!!!! Freakn game changer team that with some neo motors. Or idk I just buy custom subs and try my best to learn from my sub builder. Some may think designing/building subs is easy from what I’m learning it’s all give and take and ya being perfect in the tolerances and crazy detail. Hell ya!!
Looks nice but not new I believe... Alpine has been using this for years. Since the 3rd generation for example, the Alpine Type R 12s have been using their "HAMR" surround and are Klippel-verified at 20mm xmax along with 70mm peak-to-peak before mechanical damage.
@@recon440 thx...ya i believe the alpine states x-mech collapse like if a gorilla stood on it,, however with electric amolifier prolly 60mm..its a great woofer any way ...swr is also great!! i competed in the world championships with alpine 15 type x....a fierce fn woofer!!!
Does the larger amount of surround surface reduce the effective cone diameter and therefore reduce the potential output? I understand that it can be made up for with the additional excursion, but isn't there a trade-off?
The easiest way to say it, is progressive suspension. This is similarly used in off-road industry. Basically a larger spring for everyday driving, with a smaller and stiffer spring for the extremes to maintain control. I been wondering when someone would try this
@@carolsmaple4763, yes and no, the MTX and also CV, used identical rings. these are differing in size, the bigger one is not normal listening, the smaller is an added cushion to prevent bottoming out
Jacob, Why do you like to use linear spiders instead of progressive on most of your subs? Can you explain the difference in type of sound you will get from one to the other? Or maybe pro and con of each one?
I soooooooo called this long long ago. I kneeeew they'd do it and I was right!! The "others" like the alpine and Vega did and do damn good too and the alpine I have one 12 in a parallel 6th in a gmc envoy and it pounds!!
That thang there is a work of art. Really shows the advanced engineering Sundown has over the competition. I luv it! It reminds me of the Incriminater audio death penalty r6. I don't think that phasing out mega roll surrounds is a good idea though. As an option I'd say yes, as a replacement no. At least not until after you see the response from the basshead community.
I better start saving money to get me a mega roll sub, every since I was a kid I loved seeing big surrounds and at the time I called them phat foam speakers, so I definitely gotta get one before they are gone for good.
Are the x and zv series getting a bigger version of that Sorround because a x or zv has over 101mm of peak to peak excursion and this has 60mm of peak to peak @Sundown Audio
@@91rickstar -- It can move as far as the basket allows given enough power. The point is -- it tries to prevent that. It reach about 2x stiffness at ~100mm p-p -- this is generally considered the linear limit on Klippel.
@@jacobfuller9893 I don't think I'm understanding everything correctly. For example I thought the Zv5 18" has a 35 xmax & 70 xmech... And even the TEAM subwoofer a 40 mm xmax... Jacob if I'm correct on those specs where is the 100 mm peak to peak coming from that you fellas were mentioning in comments above? Apologies if its a dumb question, I'm not a car audio pro but I do try to learn all I can. Btw Jacob Fuller is there any way that I could get either two Sundown TEAM 15" or two Sundown Nightshade 15" for 30% off?? That would be so awesome & I would appreciate it beyond belief. They could be B-Stock or Refurbs, I wouldn't mind at all. I've looked online everywhere I could think of even at Audio Apex/CAB but all I can find at a nice discount are the Sundown Zv5 woofers. Which in all honesty would get the job done but I'm guilty of preferring to go overkill. Jacob Sir help out a semi broke basshead. Take care, I wish you well & appreciate your contributions to the sport & hobby we all love so much! My email is: jdmhondainc@gmail.com
come on its based on a alpine type r ,vega , and pa speakers been using acordian style suround since the desert had sand .no matter if the roll looks like it will do the same thing let cone go up and down . that thing is so big you loose cone area so a 15 is really a 12 . its gonna do the same thing first gen type r s did . they seperate between 1 and 2nd roll
Well if you're so cock strong and smart Mr E-Engineer, why don't you build one of your own and show these rookie guys at Sundown how it's supposed to be done?
@@craigengelman4534 reconing a sub and building sub boxes are trivial at best. Design and engineer a subwoofer on your own to compete with or beat what Sundown has created, then your words will have merit. I've done exactly what you have done for over 20yrs and I will freely admit that I'm no subwoofer engineer. Get your pompous head out of your ass for a while and get some fresh air, you'd be surprised at how much more insightful you can be fuck face. Have a nice day! 😁
@@oldschoolmobile i designed this last year the bottom of t yoke has oval holes and the top of pole pice flares out www.chenbaoaudio.com/cb-x15-high-strength-neodymium-magent-car-subwoofer-5000w-rms-15835852180854409.html
Will the mega W eat into the cone size? like is the surround bigger and the cone has to be built smaller or will it be about the same as the mega roll v2?
The new stroker pro though. Do a head up battle. 18 for 18. 15 for 15. Use 1 phoenix gold zpa 0.5 @ 4ohm.. see what sub is better! Or try a Peavy black widow low max. 9 cubes.
So I shared this to FB & everyone kept saying how it's been done before.. but something I feel people aren't realizing is the W surround from say Vega back in the day, it would activate all the surrounds at the same time, where these 1 would activate, then when that got towards it's peak the other would & so on, each with individual tightness in the surround. Basically think of a car, what's easier on the cars braking system while braking... Slamming on the brakes or gently & gradually pressing on the brakes over time. That's the change in structure from the new W surround from Sundown & the old W surrounds you might have seen from companies in the past. So this video brings in question, if you're happy with the spider technology where it's at, does that mean you're not happy with the surround since you're trying to improve it & logically if you weren't, are you now with the W surround or do you feel there's still a bit of a ways to go with surround technology as a whole?
60mm one way would be more next level. 30mm one way was early 2K tech. I like the increased cone area for sure over the inner-tube junk, but hoping to see a minimum of 75mm of P-P Xsus. 30mm one way wasn't unheard of 20 years ago.
Audio_Phill yes a 60 mm xmax would be VERY next level! Sundown's TEAM woofer already has a 40 mm Xmax, the Zv5 has 35mm xmax, so it seems to me that with this new 'w roll' surround that they would shoot for significantly higher 'xmax' and 'xmech' numbers than what they have already offered for years. Either way its always refreshing to see new features & I'm sure Sundown will increase travel with this new 'w surround' as things move forward. Lol I don't care I just want two Sundown TEAM subwoofers at around a 30% off discount that way I feel more comfortable spending that amount of cash on 2 subwoofers.
Doesn’t incriminator audio have something out that is kind of like this to? I know it different just thought I saw them with a multi roll surround also
He smoking like Elon musk, you know it's going to be good
Obviously a cigar. 🙄
Hell ya brotha
What an idiot do some research this is nothing new jfc still can't beat an hcca idiots go to Alibaba design and produce any woofer you dream of n sundown u can keep that 300 percent Chinese mark up god worse than jl junk lmao
@@christopherparis6841 if you were as critical about your obesity as you are car audio then you would be in much better health. Being severely obese for so many years will sadly be your demise if you do not begin living a healthy lifestyle. Something you should take care of & with New Years right around the corner you should make getting healthy your New Year resolution. ☮ 🌎
This is why america is great because of men like him design and build amazing products that surpass all other countries. Good job guys can't wait till there is a pair ripping every bolt nut screw from my car 🚗 thumbs-up 👍
Except they tried to give the work to China instead of Americans....because of greed.
@@2869may i really think they gave the work to someone here in the states but they did try China first . I believe they did try China first only so that it was cheap enough for us consumers to afford . But I do agree let's keep manufacturing here just is going to volt more for us initially but it will definitely bring pay rate up here eventually
@@danielwarbucks2469 I'll admit it's hard to compete with china made products when large profit margins are first and foremost the main concern.... If you produce a quality product at a fair price, you could make just as much money in volume of sales. If you're a popular brand, but it is a difficult balance in this day and age with so many competing brands... and all the money stays in our country and boosts our economy, and for that reason more people are looking to buy American made products.
That’s very impressive, way back in the day I was a Memphis dealer and we used to demo in the showroom how smooth the excursion was on the studio series subs VS the higher powered HP sub because of the multi roll surround. Those studio subs also had a multi size multi roll surround. Obviously not on the same level as this but seemed like great tech for those days and they performed very well for us. Well done!
The Chinese made sundown are expensive enough I know I won’t be able to afford an American version but it never hurts to wish😂
YayyCrazy you definitely are not wrong! I want a Sundown TEAM subwoofer so bad! But I can't bring myself to let go of that much $ for two subwoofers. Not when I can get the same rms rating for $800 less by getting an Audio Legion Emperor, or around $500 less for the Resilient Sounds TEAM woofer. The TEAM Sundown woofer I'm sure is superior especially compared to the other two I listed but $3200+ is A LOT of $ to spend on two subwoofers. Lol that's more than I paid for my car that I use as my bass beater.
I really wish Sundown Audio would do two things: 1. Start selling their products straight to the consumer from their website like Skar does. 2. Drop the prices on all of their subwoofers by at least 20-25%. Imo the prices for the Zv5 & Nightshade subwoofers are a little high. Can get other nice woofers with same rms ratings for less $ and they are nice quality subwoofers as well like Sundown. Just my .02 cents, either way I still like Sundown & refuse to bash them.
It doesn't matter what your name is Jl audio is another story all together they deserve bashing😂😂😂
@@maincharacter2677 I've never owned JL gear. I remember back in my teenage years everyone was on the JL Audio & Kicker bandwagon. Maybe I'd feel different if I had actual firsthand experience with JL subs but imo they are priced too high & too low of rms ratings. Like I said I could be wrong & might actually love them if I had experience with them. But right now I'm in the market for two 5k rms rated 15" subwoofers & far as I know of JL doesn't make such an animal. (If they did it'd be $10k per woofer & i couldn't afford it lol)
Though I will say that I've never heard a JL owner complain or bash their subwoofers but they do seem to be oriented towards SQ rather than SPL.
@@itdoesntmatterwhatyourname6128 grab PSI woofers they are thee shit. I have a platform 2 in a 12 and it absolutely slams. I've had just about every brand of woofers out there and the PSI is by far the best ones for the price
@@itdoesntmatterwhatyourname6128 try not to get so hung up on the RMS rating. There's a lot more going on than that.
I remember when the CV Vegas came out they were tearing the spiders from over excursion. The surround could travel way more than spider allowed . I remember the shop that I hung out at the owner would show me free airing pointing out the flaw.
Back then I ran 4 Vega Vega 10's in a Sierra, 2 12's in a pathfinder, 2 15's in a Pontiac grand prix, I made some hella pounding assed systems with them old subs. Had my dealer's license so they were soooo freaking cheap too!!!!! I personally loved the Vega Vegas. Had a ton of fun. Built enclosures with subs facing back, down, 6th order, 4th order. Again for the price and it being the early 2000's....... damn it was fun!!
Then came along the ol alpine type r.... Whole. New. Level. They were invincible compared to the Vegas in power handling. Again pounded too. I became obsessed with 6th order parallel boxes and it's hard af room wise to run more than 2 but even with only 2..... pounded and sounded amazing. Never bottomed out, just clean, clean, clean!!!!
Anyone else hate the fact sundown is calling it the mega W surround?? Come on now........ give credit where credit is due. Cerwin Vega.... thank you for your creating of the Vega Vegas
@@Basshead40 IT’S NOT THE SAME THING. It’s not even hard to see the difference. Quit being dumb about it.
@@ThisGuyDrives Not the same but it's not rocket science of the excursion facts from wayyyyyyyy back... W tho right.... just so freaking different lol
Multi-roll, also known as accordion surround, has been around in the PA world for years. This is just on a larger scale
It's been in car audio for a long time as well.
Reminds me of the type r
This sub is gonna move some serious air. I can't wait to see it in a system
Where’s the cone? Where’s the beef? 😂
I was thinking the same🤔but I guess it dont matter
In reality I’m just being a hard ass. The design of this surround is pretty innovative even though it’s sacrificing cone area. But as long as the soft parts are able to move a lot without making any inherent noise I guess it’s ok.
I don't think it sacrifices cone area. It may even add to the effective cone area.
@@KGReef Oh true cuz those inner surrounds do move as a whole when the sub is really moving. I never thought about it that way.
@@Bassotronics and the mega roll didn’t?
So If I understood correctly the only advantage of this surround is it's progressive nature at full excursion to help take stress off the spider? Also, unless my math is wrong wouldn't this give less excursion than the current megaroll surrounds? Zv.5 lists 4" peak to peak which is 101.6mm where this is claiming a 60mm peak to peak.
You are not understanding this at all, no. There is a difference between 100% flat CMS and maximum excursion (which is generally understood as a 50% change).
I absolutely love the SQ from the X series woofers. I hope that’s not going to be affected negatively if this surround goes in them.
Jl got the best surround I have seen! But sundown louder and sounds decent to and this could change that! Smart idea on both! 👍🏽
“The best surround I have seen” now try listening instead of seeing.
Type r alpine were like these. When doing spl it's not good bc the surround can fold if air bubbles back behind the surround and cause incorrect coil travel. But all in all. Awesome xmax
You obviously didn't watch the video. They covered all of that and they are NOTHING like a Type R.
@@vandersgarage4682 he was saying the surround looked like it and the cons of it.... cool off bro
@@kford9467 No, he was insinuating that this sub would be plagued with the same problems. I pointed out that they covered all of that in the video. You cool off "bro".
Looks amazing made in the USA lot of respect. do you have any concerns that at medium to low volume at certain frequencies that's there may be a lot of back pressure in the speaker cabinet and maybe have a weird affect what they flatter style design of the w? also are you combat in anyting effects that may happen with a very stiff material?
A progressive accordion style surround with different size cord from the cone to frame/basket lip sounds promising. Curious as to preferred motor?
12 inch sub, with 6 inch surround and 6 inch of cone.
1998 I had 2 Cerwin Vega XL 12s with the W surround.
Glad someone finally copied the design!
That CV had to be the best sub of the 90s, with it's 94db sensitivity and massive excursion. Not to mention that was when CV was an american company and the SQ was incredible on a big Class A amp.
I remember seeing prototypes like this back in early youtube
Now, since we're looking at a new surround on what appears to be a smaller cone, how does one correctly calculate cone displacement (Sd)? The old way of "inside to outside" won't work with this as the surround is nearly folded in on top of itself at rest and appears to become a negative displacement as the cone travels.
I'd love to see how the Fs and Qts changes as the cone enters the Xmax regions.
#Hexibase should get his hands on this and test it from 1 to 1,000 watts to get an idea of what will happen.
I dunno if I like that Mega W.... I'm used to the classic sundown mega Roll.. the huge ass monster phat ass Surround lol. This looks like it came from the 1960s with that surround or a Stroker lol. But knowing Jacob this Sub prob kicks absolute ass. It's unique.. anyway Im waiting on the Z 8" and NS 8"... But I gotta feeling the NS 8" is going to have this w surround.. I picked up a Zv5 12" finally pretty excited about it.. swapping out my SAv3 8"s for the Zv5 12".. can't wait to hear the diff ;)
Not much cone area for a 15 with that surround tho? When will we see final production??
Love this design . Will this require a larger box than x and z series currently spec'd at due to sub needing less stiffness from airspace in the box ?
Why do you think the sub would need less stiffness?
These surrounds (M-roll, vega-flex) have difficulty with "suck-back" - in a small sealed enclosure, negative pressure inside the box created during the out-stroke wants to pull the surround profile inward. With a large single-roll surround, the entire surround profile is thicker, and unrolls in one direction only, so it's all loaded in a bending in only one direction. If you had an S-shaped surround, one roll is unrolling outward while the other roll is unrolling inward, but there is always an inflection point in the profile (between the out roll and in-roll) where the surround is not flexing very much, and that is the unloaded part of the surround. It's very easy to take that unloaded part of the surround and pull it one way or the other, even at high stroke, whereas a normal roll surround is bending and receiving tangential stress more evenly across its full surface. The same is true with M, W, and other surround shapes with multiple rolls - they have these inflection points. Alpine's HAMR has less trouble with this because the additional rolls in the surface of the surround are small relative to the surround thickness, so the minor rolls are actually stiffer compared to the major roll part of the profile. Pro audio subwoofers with accordion surrounds also don't have as much trouble with this because the surround material is relatively very stiff compared to rubber or foam used in roll surrounds, and this is desired for the application - even high-excursion applications. Be careful to test for suck-back effects in small enclosures; there are drawbacks in every design.
Acoustic Theory while I do believe you contribute valuable information for some with your comment. BUT my thoughts keep going back to the idea that the majority of people buying this sub will be using it in a ported enclosure, right? Which negates some issues that you mentioned, unless they do happen to be putting this subwoofer in a sealed enclosure. Right? Or am I wrong? Its possible I may have missed something. I'm not a car audio or tech pro but any means. I'm just a fella who loves music & heavy bass. Just from my experience it seems 90% or more of Sundown subwoofer customers end up putting their subs in ported enclosures because they like high SPL.
@Acoustic Theory lol I know I already commented once but this was on my mind & thought you may be able to get me on track to understanding the excitement. The video seems to really hype up that this new surround will give the the sub a 60mm xmech (p2p exc) which should be 30mm xmax (1 way exc). Why is that supposed to be so great when Sundown already has other subwoofers that feature more than 30mm xmax & more than 60mm xmech?? For example the Zv5 & Nightshade woofers both have more than 30 mm one way excursion (xmax) & both woofers have over 60 mm peak to peak excursion (xmech). Acoustic Theory am I missing something or have I simply misunderstood something? I've got that feeling like something has flew right over my head. 😳🤯
@@itdoesntmatterwhatyourname6128 This new surround configuration is supposed to produce less change in stiffness over the required amount of stroke than a single roll surround. We can make moving-coil motors with crazy long stroke, but the suspension components are starting to reach practical limits for deformation, to the point where new design ideas are needed.
@@Acoustic_Theory ok, so if I'm understanding correctly, even though this new 'W' roll surround isn't increasing excursion more than what current woofers have been producing & are capable of. This new surround WILL benefit us in the fact that it reduces strain on the coils, tinsel leads, soft parts, etc of our subwoofers?
If I'm finally understanding this correctly then the new 'W surround' will give us increased woofer life & the ability to push our subs that much harder.
Acoustic Theory please do not hesitate to correct me anywhere I am wrong. I'm a sponge for knowledge & would much rather be quickly corrected vs being incorrect and not even aware of my errors. I'm indeed human.
@@itdoesntmatterwhatyourname6128 It may provide reduced strain, but the main benefit is less change in stiffness over the operating excursion range of the speaker; when surrounds reach the limits of their travel, they contribute to an increase in distortion, so this won’t do that until about 60mm stroke.
Omg look at that travel this is a game changer for sundown 👍🏻
This is too cool when they gonna release in 2022?
that slow-mo footage is sofa king cool 😎👍🏻
looking forward to this bad boy!
That's awesome! Now you got that fixed improve the sensitivity, no less than 93db FREE AIR in the product bandwidth.
🤦🏻♂️
@@ThisGuyDrives nothing better than using more power than necessary because of inefficient drivers!
Hey, If I wanted to watch rolls moving... I'd go do jumping jacks in the mirror... :0
I cannot wait until this is ready!
When is this surround going to become an option for the nsv5 12 on your website. Can I pre-pay now to get one when they.are released? Who do I contact at Sundown about this?
Reminds me of the vid of those “fs3 technology” subs
this
BS5
Whatever happened to the fs3 sub?
I was thinking the same exact thing
yes fs3 technology
Progressive spiders are progressive in currougation shape. Meaning they start off smaller and progressively larger to maintain the same stiffness. Linear roll means each roll is the same shape and corrugation height.
I can't afford any of it,so it doesn't matter.
Get an audiopipe 4 stack sub hits as hard as this if not harder
The yardsale is your friend.
Boo hoo, nut up son!
@@tammyforbes2101 We're in the middle of a fucking pandemic with million upon millions of people without jobs. The food lines are literally miles long. And you tell someone to "nut up" when they say they cant afford something? I hope your heartless ass catches covid.
@@rdooski thank you ..👍
Nice, nice, NOYCE!!!!! Freakn game changer team that with some neo motors. Or idk I just buy custom subs and try my best to learn from my sub builder. Some may think designing/building subs is easy from what I’m learning it’s all give and take and ya being perfect in the tolerances and crazy detail. Hell ya!!
Just curious what do you mean by its all a give and take kinda thing?
Looks nice but not new I believe... Alpine has been using this for years. Since the 3rd generation for example, the Alpine Type R 12s have been using their "HAMR" surround and are Klippel-verified at 20mm xmax along with 70mm peak-to-peak before mechanical damage.
i love alpine...but 20mm true...70 mm p to p ? prolly 60mm peak to peak
@@lunam7249 Its in the manual... In fact they state 72mm peak to peak before bottom.
@@recon440 thx...ya i believe the alpine states x-mech collapse like if a gorilla stood on it,, however with electric amolifier prolly 60mm..its a great woofer any way ...swr is also great!! i competed in the world championships with alpine 15 type x....a fierce fn woofer!!!
thx recone440 i will take your word and the manual....i love alpine....musically and db
Does the larger amount of surround surface reduce the effective cone diameter and therefore reduce the potential output? I understand that it can be made up for with the additional excursion, but isn't there a trade-off?
Will there always be an option between mega roll and this??
Damn That thing looks like it could smash them lows
But probably won't hit hard at all plus it has no cone area lows don't hit they just move air that's it
Chris 6.0 or die It seems like it has the same cone area as those large surround versions. We will see.
The easiest way to say it, is progressive suspension. This is similarly used in off-road industry. Basically a larger spring for everyday driving, with a smaller and stiffer spring for the extremes to maintain control. I been wondering when someone would try this
MTX did years ago.
@@carolsmaple4763, yes and no, the MTX and also CV, used identical rings. these are differing in size, the bigger one is not normal listening, the smaller is an added cushion to prevent bottoming out
Jacob, Why do you like to use linear spiders instead of progressive on most of your subs? Can you explain the difference in type of sound you will get from one to the other? Or maybe pro and con of each one?
Awesome, sundown for the win!! 👍🍻
I soooooooo called this long long ago. I kneeeew they'd do it and I was right!! The "others" like the alpine and Vega did and do damn good too and the alpine I have one 12 in a parallel 6th in a gmc envoy and it pounds!!
That thang there is a work of art. Really shows the advanced engineering Sundown has over the competition. I luv it! It reminds me of the Incriminater audio death penalty r6. I don't think that phasing out mega roll surrounds is a good idea though. As an option I'd say yes, as a replacement no. At least not until after you see the response from the basshead community.
Lets be care this reminds me of the Alpine subs so it is cool
Immediately I thought of the alpine type-r's
Reminded me of my old type s
All i see is a12inch reduced to a 10inch
Cone area is the same as it was with the normal megaroll surround
Exactly. Bigger surround but smaller cone. Last time I checked cone area is king.
@@ASSOpid it is but Xmax/cone area is king and queen! That’s get you there!
Anyone got a release date on these? I'm looking to buy some SA 12's now, but I'll wait a bit if these are coming soon.
did they mention output/RMS?
Does this give you more effective cone area? I love it. 💪
ruclips.net/video/B1VOYTSkm8Q/видео.html
Will i be able to get this for my zv4 15s.
Looked great guys...love all the uniformed haters comments..
Zv6 motor huh? Very interesting! That motor looks huge! Very nice
I better start saving money to get me a mega roll sub, every since I was a kid I loved seeing big surrounds and at the time I called them phat foam speakers, so I definitely gotta get one before they are gone for good.
can we get some magic box spl tests and comparisons?? It's been a long long time since the magic box has made an appearance!
Orion xtr magic boxes were fantastic, the dual-reflex xtr single 12 at 4 ohms.
Will there be a large dia version for HT use?
Are the x and zv series getting a bigger version of that Sorround because a x or zv has over 101mm of peak to peak excursion and this has 60mm of peak to peak @Sundown Audio
60mm p-p is the completely flat compliance zone. It keeps going after but gets tighter from there. Moving 100mm p-p is no problem.
Ok
What’s the maximum peak to peak on the W Sorround
@@91rickstar -- It can move as far as the basket allows given enough power. The point is -- it tries to prevent that. It reach about 2x stiffness at ~100mm p-p -- this is generally considered the linear limit on Klippel.
@@jacobfuller9893 I don't think I'm understanding everything correctly. For example I thought the Zv5 18" has a 35 xmax & 70 xmech... And even the TEAM subwoofer a 40 mm xmax...
Jacob if I'm correct on those specs where is the 100 mm peak to peak coming from that you fellas were mentioning in comments above? Apologies if its a dumb question, I'm not a car audio pro but I do try to learn all I can.
Btw Jacob Fuller is there any way that I could get either two Sundown TEAM 15" or two Sundown Nightshade 15" for 30% off?? That would be so awesome & I would appreciate it beyond belief. They could be B-Stock or Refurbs, I wouldn't mind at all. I've looked online everywhere I could think of even at Audio Apex/CAB but all I can find at a nice discount are the Sundown Zv5 woofers. Which in all honesty would get the job done but I'm guilty of preferring to go overkill. Jacob Sir help out a semi broke basshead. Take care, I wish you well & appreciate your contributions to the sport & hobby we all love so much!
My email is: jdmhondainc@gmail.com
That is so bad ass!! Can't wait for it to be in production!!
Back in the 60's we called it accordion surround with a peak to peak of 1/4", yeah real high fidelity....
It will always be accordion surround
@Regular Guy Audio it’s not the same, regardless of how many times you try to say it is.
Music from the 60s had no bass
@@thingsdemystified cap
Sweet so will it sound better than the newest mega roll
Made in America. Sounds promising
Immediately reminds me of the HAMR surround
Wow Jacob Fuller that's a work of art my friend 👏
What advantage does the hammer from alpine / w surround have compared to conventional
Love what you guys are doing.
Looks sick
Reminds me of the Mercedez bens spare tire
How much power can it take
Please make some Neo Pro Audio Subwoofers like Ipals or B&C 115-4
Jacob is a cigar guy. If I wasn’t a fan before, I am now.
Definitely getting 2 of these
Amazing control !!! Man I love technology!
I wonder if I could get those and drop em in some X baskets and motors?
Looks interesting. Glad to see y'all doing something that no other companies are even attempting.
Looks a lot like the Memphis Audio MOJO......
like the Cerwin Vega strokers and Alpine subs
come on its based on a alpine type r ,vega , and pa speakers been using acordian style suround since the desert had sand .no matter if the roll looks like it will do the same thing let cone go up and down . that thing is so big you loose cone area so a 15 is really a 12 . its gonna do the same thing first gen type r s did . they seperate between 1 and 2nd roll
Well if you're so cock strong and smart Mr E-Engineer, why don't you build one of your own and show these rookie guys at Sundown how it's supposed to be done?
@@oldschoolmobile i recone subs and build custom sub boxs all day long mr keyboard warrior
@@craigengelman4534 reconing a sub and building sub boxes are trivial at best. Design and engineer a subwoofer on your own to compete with or beat what Sundown has created, then your words will have merit. I've done exactly what you have done for over 20yrs and I will freely admit that I'm no subwoofer engineer. Get your pompous head out of your ass for a while and get some fresh air, you'd be surprised at how much more insightful you can be fuck face. Have a nice day! 😁
@@oldschoolmobile i designed this last year the bottom of t yoke has oval holes and the top of pole pice flares out www.chenbaoaudio.com/cb-x15-high-strength-neodymium-magent-car-subwoofer-5000w-rms-15835852180854409.html
@@craigengelman4534 you’re such a know it all and can’t see the difference? 🤦🏻♂️
cant wait
So if I order a recone kit how do I order a basket too off your website??
This may actually make me buy something sundown... take your time, i know imma have to save my money🙃
tristan lasley curious what brand subwoofers you have?
Will the mega W eat into the cone size? like is the surround bigger and the cone has to be built smaller or will it be about the same as the mega roll v2?
Cone area is identical to Mega v2.
@@jacobfuller9893 the demo of it on the bench already has me sold, excursion looks crazy when the separate rolls start kicking in.
Keep up the great work
Reminds me of the old cerwin Vega stroker subs
TY ALPINE!!!!!
Alpine had nothing to do with it.
The new stroker pro though. Do a head up battle. 18 for 18. 15 for 15. Use 1 phoenix gold zpa 0.5 @ 4ohm.. see what sub is better! Or try a Peavy black widow low max. 9 cubes.
So I shared this to FB & everyone kept saying how it's been done before.. but something I feel people aren't realizing is the W surround from say Vega back in the day, it would activate all the surrounds at the same time, where these 1 would activate, then when that got towards it's peak the other would & so on, each with individual tightness in the surround. Basically think of a car, what's easier on the cars braking system while braking... Slamming on the brakes or gently & gradually pressing on the brakes over time. That's the change in structure from the new W surround from Sundown & the old W surrounds you might have seen from companies in the past. So this video brings in question, if you're happy with the spider technology where it's at, does that mean you're not happy with the surround since you're trying to improve it & logically if you weren't, are you now with the W surround or do you feel there's still a bit of a ways to go with surround technology as a whole?
60mm one way would be more next level. 30mm one way was early 2K tech. I like the increased cone area for sure over the inner-tube junk, but hoping to see a minimum of 75mm of P-P Xsus. 30mm one way wasn't unheard of 20 years ago.
Do you reckon this has more cone area or less? I like more cone area too with thin but tall surrounds
Audio_Phill yes a 60 mm xmax would be VERY next level! Sundown's TEAM woofer already has a 40 mm Xmax, the Zv5 has 35mm xmax, so it seems to me that with this new 'w roll' surround that they would shoot for significantly higher 'xmax' and 'xmech' numbers than what they have already offered for years. Either way its always refreshing to see new features & I'm sure Sundown will increase travel with this new 'w surround' as things move forward. Lol I don't care I just want two Sundown TEAM subwoofers at around a 30% off discount that way I feel more comfortable spending that amount of cash on 2 subwoofers.
60mm for this is P-P.
Look up the old Mass Destruction Napalm, they used this "new" surround lol.
@@2002ZRX1200R considering this is a new patent, they clearly *didn’t* use _this_ surround.
That's like 15 and 18 surrounded working together or 12 and 12 and so on 😱💪👍🔊🔊🔊🔊
When will the zv6 be released
2021
Looks familiar to that bs5 v2 video on RUclips
Nice
Love it!
keep up the good work boys
Looks bad ass
Reminds me of the Alpine Type R
I got SD4 and omg I love my 3 10s
Need one for a zv5 18.
Cool engineering
Doesn’t incriminator audio have something out that is kind of like this to? I know it different just thought I saw them with a multi roll surround also
Nothing on the market right now is like this. They explained the difference and showed it.
Looks like kicker will be designing the new sundown
Moses Salazar i sure hope NOT!
trust me its from china...
@@lunam7249 he literally said it's not from China😂😂😂did you not watch the video?
someonne is literally lieing....did you not hear him?....
Can that speaker be used for free air?
Should do good just won't handle as much power.
Good stuff
Haha I love how my Beats pros pick up the background bass at the 3:30 mark
So did my $5.00 dollar general wired earbuds.
Price?