As a long-time collector, I think the old-old label (first generation (2000 to 2003)) was the tightest CGC grading, ever. Those old-old labels command a premium in the market for keys. CGC then went through an inconsistent, but mostly soft grading period from 2004 or so to 2016. Then, in 2016, CGC got really tight again, and there has been no let up. BTW, CBCS is grading tightly also.
I do wish that CGC would release a more concrete grading scale to give us a better idea as to why books that seem flawless get a 9.2 as there are often times graders notes don’t even appear
The one thing I love about your channel is how much fun it looks like you're having doing it! It's really an inspiration and I hope you keep doing it. Aside from getting the same grade, it's better than getting a lower grade.
Very interesting and insightful vid on CPR. I'm not at that level yet and this definitely gives me something else to think about. Thank You Bry for yet another great video.
Very interesting! I've heard a lot of the opposite, but I can't speak on it myself. I've only own two pre-2016 CGC slabs. I have a Cap 100 that has the original blue labels from the early 2000s, graded at a 3.5 It has a long piece of tape along the spine, but no spine damage and the staples are completely intact. It has a 3/4 inch defect running across the top of the cover, but other than that, the rest of the book presents really clean with very minor flaws . I'm not to savvy on how they judge tape, but man would it be interesting to see what they would grade it now.
@@angelvalle9963 Humbly disagree. It's presents much more like a 5.5 - 6.0, but of course the tape brings that down. I think it would all depend on how harsh they are about the tape, but in no way is it near a 2.0. If it came back a 2.0, or even a 2.5, I'd honestly never send a book to CGC ever again. I know CGC has their own "standards," but I've studied the Overstreet Guide to Grading and there is no way a piece of tape will knock down a book that is otherwise in the Fine range, all the way down in the 2's.
I think CGC actually has a video on their YT channel about tape…if I remember correctly they grade it as though the tape were the defect it was trying to fix, something like that
I completely agree about the change in grading standards. I have a number of slabs submitted myself from 3-4 years ago that would not get 9.8 and 9.6’s now. Now for the reason why, I think two-fold. The market loves and idolizes 9.8’s, so that grade has become the gold, flawless standard, so CGC has adjusted accordingly to only give flawless books a 9.8 grade. I bet it’s even harder now, outside of square bound books, to receive a 9.9. Secondly, CGC knows their slabs get a premium price compared to other companies, so CGC wants to make their 9.8’s even more rare and desirable. They don’t want to oversaturate the market, outside of modern books, of 9.8’s. By adhering to stricter standards, it makes their 9.8’s even worth more, which makes their company more desirable.
It would help us if CGC actually said what their grading standards are. I have never seen it listed or published what they use to grade any book at any time period.
Great video, I have a bunch of older case slabs I need to revisit and see what I can come up with for resubmitting. Thanks for the idea to do just that!
This is one of the main reasons I love your channel. You make evidence-based videos to back up your main point. Major kudos to you, keep up the good work!
I have a Marvel Spotlight 28 that came back last year at 8.5. Defect was a “crunch bottom”. Which I can’t even see. Is it a CPR candidate in your opinion?
Makes a lot of sense man. I’ll keep this in mind with looking to buy older slabs. I wonder if some that may have been pressed and slabbed a long time might even somewhat revert to some original pressable defects over time?
That reminds me of the old label CGC 9.2 x-men #50 that I bought on ebay with the intent to crack and get a Steranko sig. Seller said that they felt it would grade higher (first mistake). Had it cracked, signed, regraded, and it came back a 8.5. Shoulda bought a raw copy (second mistake). But it has a sweet green Steranko sig that matches the green on the cover so I'm good with that.
It baffles me that people still value grades from CGC so highly when there’s clearly no consistency. It’s like trying to see how your diet is going when using a broken scale. Everybody cheers when the scale says you lost 12 pounds and then makes a whole slew of excuses when it says you gained 5. The grades should validate a book’s value, not inflate it.
We can all agree that there clearly is a huge difference between a grade 9.0 and 2.0. The inconsistencies with cgc occurs with grades that are close example 9.8 vs 9.6 or 9.4 vs 9.2 these ranges are so close to each other that it is almost indistinguishable leading to disagreements and controversies.
@@michaeltan4204 and yet the price between a 2.0 and a 9.0 is less than the difference between 9.0 and a 9.8. At those grades the evidence should be very clear and the grades should be very objective. They’re not debating how much a stain lowers the grade or how severe a subscription crease is. A spine tick is either there or it isn’t. But this is why CGC hides their grading standards. They know at those higher grades they can’t fall back on the “subjective” excuse and they don’t want to be held accountable.
I have an ASM 300 in the old pink label modern tier case graded a 9.2. I was about to crack it have it cleaned and pressed and re-submit it but after this video I don’t know that I should. There are no greater notes to look at but I suspect being graded at CGC when they had the pink label that it was never cleaned or pressed. I just don’t know if it is worth the risk. I am not good at seeing defects through cases unless they are right there in your face. Without the greater notes I don’t know if it’s because of something in the book or something else. What should I do
How much would a 1 to 2 inch spine crack vertically affect the grade of a comic? Flawless book but at the top and bottom of the spine there's a 1 to 2 inch crack. What grade would you give that book?
Love to see your wisdom on collecting books, it’s really great to get an insight into CPR. I’m not really at that level to start doing yet but it’s definitely something I want to look into in the future. Thanks again for sharing your experience. Also what a great book to own in your PC!
one thing i learned is that you cant trust cgc anymore. ive seen so many bad graded issues being given higher grades than they are. while ive had higher grades getting graded lower.
It sucks the standards have clearly changed. I just got back into comic collecting two years ago after a 25 year hiatus and I will say based on my current understanding of grading, the issue here is that it was simply not a "modern" 8.5 in its pre-CPR condition. Looks fantastic now in its new case.
Nice video Bry. Haven’t CPR’d a book myself but after cleaning and pressing I can see how frustrating that could be to get the same grade after improving the book. On the flip side it’s probably super fulfilling to successfully pull off a CPR
Yeah I’ve did a couple of CPRs and think you saw on one of my post that it got a grade bump and it went from off white to white and came back white pages…lol. So at times it does seem a little off but on the most part if you can spot fixable defects and enough of it CPR is a great option. But great segment about the older labels…I had avoided older labels but now I’ll look into it more … thx Bry!
I’ve heard a couple stories of people getting a decrease in grade after sending it in for reholder. Cgc sent an email stating that they can’t honor the grade with new standards. So yea the new standards are 💯 true. Grain of salt though because it wasn’t my book but someone in one of my fb groups. Great info as always Bry. Missed the mystery box cuz I was at work but I’ll try for one next round.
Thanks. Book does look great. I just did a couple of CPR & waiting for them to come back. They were candidates for improvements (ie no press on them.). So taking a shot. Reward is there if it goes up.
Great info. What I get from this is to try to buy only newly graded comics, because the grade is probably more representative to the current condition of the book. So knowing this, new case 9.8s are more valuable to me than old case 9.8s.
Very interesting points on the CPR! A lot more thought into a CPR than one would think. Sucks it’s still an 8.5 but damn does it show much better in that new slab! … also when’s the launch of the Brys comics merch? Can only flex that hat for so long!!
This video has me curious now. Is there a difference in value between a CGC old label & a CGC modern label (21/22) for example... your 2.0 tales of suspense.. would that cost more in a modern slab as opposed to a 20yo slab?
Thanks for posting Bry. Tons of good info there. I agree that grading can change and IMO, there are likely many newer graders since they've expanded and original graders may have moved on. Still, just seeing Avengers #2 in an 8.5 with white pages is fantastic by itself. The C&P had it looking really clean and tight. I did notice that you resubmitted it as new submission as opposed to keeping the former CGC Certificate number. I've got a number of original slabbed books and one in particular is Fantastic four #46, which was graded a 5.5. Looking at it hard, I would have thought it a higher grade but whatever. Still, I might do a little CPR on it and resubmit. Even if it comes back the same grade, it will be in a better slab, though I fear newton rings. Best to all and Make Mine Marvel.
I completely agree with you. Everything I have gotten recently have been under graded. I had a book with the pages wrinkled due to water dmg that was a 6.0. I got it pressed and it removed the wrinkles and it came back a 6.0 WTF.
I've got new CGC books that I think are generous and/or overly strict, but I will admit that my old CGC cases seem "loose" overall, so I agree with you on that. All that said, even with a couple of outliers in my collection where I'm like "How did it get THIS grade?", overall I think my books are graded accurately. Bry: Speaking of CGC books, I just took advantage of your 15% off and went ham on some Tynion goodness. And yes, the SIKTC book I just ordered is for my wife. 😄
Hey Bry, I’m in the process and wanted to know how much $$ do you need to start an actual brick and mortar? Where are you located? Do most collections come thru your store that you buy? And I’m the beginning what did you do to hunt major books?
Yeah. There is a lot of subjectivity involved (for example, what is REALLY the difference between a 9.4 and 9.6?) Without the notes you are left wondering things like is it a new hire, are they giving bad grades because they came in hungover, etc.
Exact same experience here. I CPRed a Giant Size X-Men 1 and a House of Secrets 92 from my PC....after a significant clean and press, they returned with the same, 20 year old grades! Meh, the books DO present better, now, and the new cases are much more clear. Still a win overall, but not the 1.0 bumps I was hoping for!! I had always intended to keep them in the PC.
As a long-time collector, I think the old-old label (first generation (2000 to 2003)) was the tightest CGC grading, ever. Those old-old labels command a premium in the market for keys. CGC then went through an inconsistent, but mostly soft grading period from 2004 or so to 2016. Then, in 2016, CGC got really tight again, and there has been no let up.
BTW, CBCS is grading tightly also.
Very interesting! 👍
@@BrysComics Your content is a tremendous resource, keep up the great work.
I do wish that CGC would release a more concrete grading scale to give us a better idea as to why books that seem flawless get a 9.2 as there are often times graders notes don’t even appear
Dudes gots great eyebrows. little known fact, he plays The Count on Sesame Street. One great eyebrow two great eyebrows.
🤣🤣🤣
Great job Doctor Hugh with the cpr.. Grading sooo sub-ject-ive.. Great advice Bry
The one thing I love about your channel is how much fun it looks like you're having doing it! It's really an inspiration and I hope you keep doing it. Aside from getting the same grade, it's better than getting a lower grade.
Truth!
@@BrysComics 100%
Very interesting and insightful vid on CPR. I'm not at that level yet and this definitely gives me something else to think about. Thank You Bry for yet another great video.
Very interesting! I've heard a lot of the opposite, but I can't speak on it myself. I've only own two pre-2016 CGC slabs. I have a Cap 100 that has the original blue labels from the early 2000s, graded at a 3.5 It has a long piece of tape along the spine, but no spine damage and the staples are completely intact. It has a 3/4 inch defect running across the top of the cover, but other than that, the rest of the book presents really clean with very minor flaws . I'm not to savvy on how they judge tape, but man would it be interesting to see what they would grade it now.
2.0
@@angelvalle9963 Humbly disagree. It's presents much more like a 5.5 - 6.0, but of course the tape brings that down. I think it would all depend on how harsh they are about the tape, but in no way is it near a 2.0. If it came back a 2.0, or even a 2.5, I'd honestly never send a book to CGC ever again. I know CGC has their own "standards," but I've studied the Overstreet Guide to Grading and there is no way a piece of tape will knock down a book that is otherwise in the Fine range, all the way down in the 2's.
I think CGC actually has a video on their YT channel about tape…if I remember correctly they grade it as though the tape were the defect it was trying to fix, something like that
Thanks for the walk through, makes it easier for us to make a good decision on what to do in the future
Maybe the introduction of cleaning and pressing books indirectly increased the standards of not only CGC but other grading companies as well.
That’s a very interesting point!
Bry, love the topic. Makes you wonder how much is the CGC census overstated by everyone who crack, press and resubmit.
👏
I completely agree about the change in grading standards. I have a number of slabs submitted myself from 3-4 years ago that would not get 9.8 and 9.6’s now. Now for the reason why, I think two-fold. The market loves and idolizes 9.8’s, so that grade has become the gold, flawless standard, so CGC has adjusted accordingly to only give flawless books a 9.8 grade. I bet it’s even harder now, outside of square bound books, to receive a 9.9. Secondly, CGC knows their slabs get a premium price compared to other companies, so CGC wants to make their 9.8’s even more rare and desirable. They don’t want to oversaturate the market, outside of modern books, of 9.8’s. By adhering to stricter standards, it makes their 9.8’s even worth more, which makes their company more desirable.
If this were true it invalidates the grading process all together.
@@Supertomscustoms True or not, people will still pay premium dollar for a 9.8.
Some great information in this video. Thanks for sharing. We are all always learning
It would help us if CGC actually said what their grading standards are. I have never seen it listed or published what they use to grade any book at any time period.
I never really thought about it but your right. Its something we need to keep in mind that never really comes to mind. Thank you!
Great vid dude, I love how you include pics and show us what's changed.
Great video, I have a bunch of older case slabs I need to revisit and see what I can come up with for resubmitting. Thanks for the idea to do just that!
Great video thanks for the info. I like how you show the before and after pictures. And Grading standards have definitely changed over the years.
Thanks Bry. Always informative. Appreciate you
Very informative. Thanks.
I really like your reasoning about how the discovery of a bunch of pedigrees could have caused CGC to grade harsher
Thanks for sharing this valuable information. As someone who's just getting back into the hobby, I'm taking notes.
Great video, I’ve felt the same way about grading for a while.
Very informative here. Def going to use this knowledge for slab-hunting moving forward!
About to get your mystery box ⁉️📦 I watch your videos and get so much knowledge about comics so I definitely want to support you in every way I can.
🙏🏻💯
Great content! Very informative.
Nice detailed explanation of the process. Indeed a great way to get value out of a collection.
Love the info!
Good tips. I think your theory of standards tightening makes perfect sense.
This is one of the main reasons I love your channel. You make evidence-based videos to back up your main point. Major kudos to you, keep up the good work!
I have a older TMNT that was graded a 7.0 and waiting to see what graded I get now that I had it opened, pressed and cleaned.
Great video, Bry - love your positive attitude about these frustrating and tricky issues!
Good knowledge!! Thanks and keep up the great content
Great info. Looks great after the clean and press. Definitely presents better in the new case. Beautiful book in your PC.
Great information on CPR and experience on how grading standards have changed. It's not surprising as you said - it's subjective. Excellent work!
Very informative as always. Thanks!
Another informative video! Keep'em comin!
I just experienced this myself. A Giant Size X-Men 7.5 CGC with pressable defects was cracked, cleaned, and pressed and off to CGC. Came back a 7.0 😭
This is truly a great video. This video deserves a comic book RUclips award. Stellar content, Bry.
Ty so much!
Very interesting video. Thanks for helping us learning
Your man did a KILLER job on cleaning & pressing. Massive improvement.
Always enjoy the content and can’t wait for the next one!
I have a Marvel Spotlight 28 that came back last year at 8.5. Defect was a “crunch bottom”. Which I can’t even see. Is it a CPR candidate in your opinion?
If it doesn’t break color yeah
thanks for the video. really appreciate that information.
Great topic to explore. Thanks!
Makes a lot of sense man. I’ll keep this in mind with looking to buy older slabs. I wonder if some that may have been pressed and slabbed a long time might even somewhat revert to some original pressable defects over time?
It’s definitely possible
wonder if they look at previous notes for a book if they know it was graded
🤷♂️
Great comic books information. Thanks.
Congratulation on the grail I'm happy for you
Your giveaways are insanely good mate!!
That reminds me of the old label CGC 9.2 x-men #50 that I bought on ebay with the intent to crack and get a Steranko sig. Seller said that they felt it would grade higher (first mistake). Had it cracked, signed, regraded, and it came back a 8.5. Shoulda bought a raw copy (second mistake). But it has a sweet green Steranko sig that matches the green on the cover so I'm good with that.
That sucks man…I’m always so puckered to crack for sigs I usually avoid it…at least you got a great sig!
Always looking for ways to make the hobby fund itself. Great info, great advice.
good tip on the presser...
Have you compared the grader's notes before and after resubmitting?
Yep
It baffles me that people still value grades from CGC so highly when there’s clearly no consistency. It’s like trying to see how your diet is going when using a broken scale. Everybody cheers when the scale says you lost 12 pounds and then makes a whole slew of excuses when it says you gained 5.
The grades should validate a book’s value, not inflate it.
Precisely...
We can all agree that there clearly is a huge difference between a grade 9.0 and 2.0. The inconsistencies with cgc occurs with grades that are close example 9.8 vs 9.6 or 9.4 vs 9.2 these ranges are so close to each other that it is almost indistinguishable leading to disagreements and controversies.
@@michaeltan4204 and yet the price between a 2.0 and a 9.0 is less than the difference between 9.0 and a 9.8. At those grades the evidence should be very clear and the grades should be very objective. They’re not debating how much a stain lowers the grade or how severe a subscription crease is. A spine tick is either there or it isn’t. But this is why CGC hides their grading standards. They know at those higher grades they can’t fall back on the “subjective” excuse and they don’t want to be held accountable.
@@Supertomscustoms Agree we need more transparency and grading guidelines from cgc
I have an ASM 300 in the old pink label modern tier case graded a 9.2. I was about to crack it have it cleaned and pressed and re-submit it but after this video I don’t know that I should. There are no greater notes to look at but I suspect being graded at CGC when they had the pink label that it was never cleaned or pressed. I just don’t know if it is worth the risk. I am not good at seeing defects through cases unless they are right there in your face. Without the greater notes I don’t know if it’s because of something in the book or something else. What should I do
I think it’s always best to only
Crack if you see a defect that can be improved…
Great video! Can you do a video about CGC exceptions like manufacturer color rubs, tiny corner tears, miswraps, etc...?
What professional work👍
Very good break down great video as always
Always enjoy your videos!
Totally agree with you. Standards have changed.
Very interesting stuff Bry I need to have some books pressed before a submission
I do agree with you. I CPR'd two books and they came back lower grades and the notes listed the same pressable defects. I was extremely disappointed.
new to the hobby and glad i found this channel
Me too, welcome!
Bry Box Round 2 was awesome! Just got my first delivery. Should have gotten two of them.
🙌
Hugh is a magic man wow what a great clean up job.
Good info for those that are looking to try their hand at this.
How much would a 1 to 2 inch spine crack vertically affect the grade of a comic? Flawless book but at the top and bottom of the spine there's a 1 to 2 inch crack. What grade would you give that book?
Love to see your wisdom on collecting books, it’s really great to get an insight into CPR. I’m not really at that level to start doing yet but it’s definitely something I want to look into in the future. Thanks again for sharing your experience. Also what a great book to own in your PC!
one thing i learned is that you cant trust cgc anymore. ive seen so many bad graded issues being given higher grades than they are. while ive had higher grades getting graded lower.
Went to buy a mystery box but you were all sold out when will u do more?
Maybe next week, sign up for the newsletter so you don’t miss it!
Interesting. There's an ASM 300 at one of my lcs's in a 6.5 old label I was thinking about trying a CPR on. Guess I need to take a closer look 🧐
It sucks the standards have clearly changed. I just got back into comic collecting two years ago after a 25 year hiatus and I will say based on my current understanding of grading, the issue here is that it was simply not a "modern" 8.5 in its pre-CPR condition. Looks fantastic now in its new case.
Agreed
Nice video Bry. Haven’t CPR’d a book myself but after cleaning and pressing I can see how frustrating that could be to get the same grade after improving the book. On the flip side it’s probably super fulfilling to successfully pull off a CPR
Awesome video. It's amazing seeing some of these before/after pics. Not just the pressing but the cleaning alone should have bumped the grade imo.
Yeah I’ve did a couple of CPRs and think you saw on one of my post that it got a grade bump and it went from off white to white and came back white pages…lol. So at times it does seem a little off but on the most part if you can spot fixable defects and enough of it CPR is a great option. But great segment about the older labels…I had avoided older labels but now I’ll look into it more … thx Bry!
I’ve heard a couple stories of people getting a decrease in grade after sending it in for reholder. Cgc sent an email stating that they can’t honor the grade with new standards. So yea the new standards are 💯 true. Grain of salt though because it wasn’t my book but someone in one of my fb groups. Great info as always Bry. Missed the mystery box cuz I was at work but I’ll try for one next round.
Whoaaaaa, I would love to see that email!
@@BrysComics let me see if I can find it and I’ll email it to you.
CGC is undermining their own product then... Basically telling people the grade isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
So true on the hunt for old labels. My press is ready
Great video! I tried a CPR once and it backfired. It was a 9.2 and came back an 8.5. I have yet to get up the courage to try this again..lol!
I’ve definitely noted stricter and inconsistent grading of late
Thanks. Book does look great. I just did a couple of CPR & waiting for them to come back. They were candidates for improvements (ie no press on them.). So taking a shot. Reward is there if it goes up.
I’m very interested in CPR of books. Interesting to hear about the looser grades.
Great info. What I get from this is to try to buy only newly graded comics, because the grade is probably more representative to the current condition of the book. So knowing this, new case 9.8s are more valuable to me than old case 9.8s.
Or it's simply been recased...
For 9.8’s definitely…a 9.8 old label means it may have been damaged and needs a reholder which costs
Very interesting points on the CPR! A lot more thought into a CPR than one would think. Sucks it’s still an 8.5 but damn does it show much better in that new slab! … also when’s the launch of the Brys comics merch? Can only flex that hat for so long!!
😜
I really LOVE THIS COMMUNITY….. and comics :)
I would agree grading changed i will have to check my slabs I know I have lots of old label cases
Grading standards have definitely changed, slabbing comics wasn't as big back then than it is now
This video has me curious now. Is there a difference in value between a CGC old label & a CGC modern label (21/22) for example... your 2.0 tales of suspense.. would that cost more in a modern slab as opposed to a 20yo slab?
Often it’s the other way because people are hopeful for a grade bump
Very informative stuff. That is a beautiful copy of Avengers 2. Amazing how glossy it still looks.
Hmm this is interesting, great analysis.. I have a book with an older case i’ve been thinking about getting reholdered.
Thanks for posting Bry. Tons of good info there. I agree that grading can change and IMO, there are likely many newer graders since they've expanded and original graders may have moved on. Still, just seeing Avengers #2 in an 8.5 with white pages is fantastic by itself. The C&P had it looking really clean and tight. I did notice that you resubmitted it as new submission as opposed to keeping the former CGC Certificate number.
I've got a number of original slabbed books and one in particular is Fantastic four #46, which was graded a 5.5. Looking at it hard, I would have thought it a higher grade but whatever. Still, I might do a little CPR on it and resubmit. Even if it comes back the same grade, it will be in a better slab, though I fear newton rings. Best to all and Make Mine Marvel.
I completely agree with you.
Everything I have gotten recently have been under graded.
I had a book with the pages wrinkled due to water dmg that was a 6.0. I got it pressed and it removed the wrinkles and it came back a 6.0 WTF.
I've got new CGC books that I think are generous and/or overly strict, but I will admit that my old CGC cases seem "loose" overall, so I agree with you on that. All that said, even with a couple of outliers in my collection where I'm like "How did it get THIS grade?", overall I think my books are graded accurately.
Bry: Speaking of CGC books, I just took advantage of your 15% off and went ham on some Tynion goodness. And yes, the SIKTC book I just ordered is for my wife. 😄
Tynion for the win!
Hey Bry, I’m in the process and wanted to know how much $$ do you need to start an actual brick and mortar? Where are you located? Do most collections come thru your store that you buy? And I’m the beginning what did you do to hunt major books?
Crazy but understandable. That was a huge improvement.
It's crazy to me it was the same grade. It was such an improvement after the cleaning and pressing. 🤔
Great information
Honestly, I firmly believe that the community should demand the graders notes from CGC. Lack of transparency is never good for the customer.
Yeah. There is a lot of subjectivity involved (for example, what is REALLY the difference between a 9.4 and 9.6?) Without the notes you are left wondering things like is it a new hire, are they giving bad grades because they came in hungover, etc.
Very informative.
I have a CGC 9.9 graded in 2012. So do you think it is not a 9.9 by today's standards? If not that would be upsetting since I paid so much for it.
Exact same experience here. I CPRed a Giant Size X-Men 1 and a House of Secrets 92 from my PC....after a significant clean and press, they returned with the same, 20 year old grades! Meh, the books DO present better, now, and the new cases are much more clear. Still a win overall, but not the 1.0 bumps I was hoping for!! I had always intended to keep them in the PC.
Yeah I guess we can’t complain too much, at least the grades didn’t go down 😜