Your bottomless well of knowledge is unbelievable and the fact that you can rattle off this highly informed narrative in essentially one take deserves an Emmy! Kudos also to Alyssa for hand holding a 1 hr+ shot!
Seriously. And then when they’re done at the conference we join Kyle in his hotel room where he continues talking for like 10 more minutes. So much information
Alyssa, great job of on the fly camera work as Kyle is just spit balling on this jaunt through the expo. Your camera movement quickly folllowed his commentary and made very little need for editing, major kudos!
The Flo charger unit is a perfect design to directly replace gas pumps. 2 side access, access all ports, pull through. Also status visible from distance, which can be important.
Kempower is literally the only real comparable solution to Tesla superchargers. Having stalls with dynamic loadsharing instead of Units is cheaper and better for sharing. They really need to step up their production, we need more Kempower in Europe (and you in the US too!).
The Flo chargers are SUPER exciting to see. Love so much about all they have done there 👏💕 Thanks Flo-great ideas! (Just keep the heat/rain/snow in mind please)
But did you notice their monster cable was liquid cooled, and "As a result was big and heavy"? Tesla's V3 cable is 3/4 inch in diameter. Very easy to move. Two thumbs down on Flo. And that worm drive is a maintenance issue.
The flo units around here that Francis uses cannot charge an Ioniq 5 or EV 6 or other high-voltage EV’s. Of course they are old units that Francis has bought and installed at their locations, I figure because providers in Canada have installed new units that can charge high-voltage EV’s.
@@glenngore6609 Glen, this is simply not true. Do you have any examples of FLO chargers not working with an Ioniq 5? The V3 SmartDC is the same unit in Canada as the States
There are plenty of examples here in Oklahoma, where Francis Electric has flo chargers at most of their DCFC charging stations. My local Francis site has two flo units but they cannot charge my Ioniq 5. Some of their sites have only flo charging units while some sites have 2 or 3 different types of charging units, but only one of the 3 types that Francis uses is able to charge an 800-volt EV. I have never been able to charge my Ioniq 5 with those flo machines and I have talked with Francis techs on their help line where they confirmed to me that those units cannot charge an 800-volt vehicle. @@omidtoussi
I like how Kyle says it’s “not going to be 2hrs long”. I had to check, because I know he likes to talk. And I’m 100% good with that, I like how he talks about every single aspect, he’s a legit journalist 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@@barryw9473 If and when the NACS officially becomes a standard, Tesla won’t be dictating anything outside of their Supercharger network. As a chartered member of the standard governing body, they will have input, but the point of a standard is to remove the proprietary nature of the technology.
I think that XCharge 95 kWh unit is really exciting for rural installs. Most of the “fast chargers” I go to are 30-50 kWh, and 62.5 is a treat. Being able to do 95 kWh not far from camping areas would be awesome!
Forget that. We need 250kW+ units in rural areas as the higher vehicle throughput means fewer total units are needed which reduces the cost of the network and increases customer satisfaction. Slow charging sucks unless I'm sleeping.
Watched your test videos late last year and then that now infamous vid where you tested the charging infrastructure in freezing conditions. Since then you’ve done more than most to continue testing all charging systems and the net effect of having all these different ‘Providers’ on what needs to be an utterly reliable charging infrastructure. It makes sense that the best solution should be a) recognised as such and b) adopted if the transition to electrification is going to be completed smoothly. Huge credit to you Kyle, you’re soaking up all the technical subtleties and nuanced arguments and making sense of it. Only an independently minded person could have done that. Geoff Chown 👍
Glad to see this conference in Sacramento, the convention center was recently renovated to accommodate larger events so looks like it paying off. We also have a great auto museum if you have time you should go check out.
OK, that was a sober and balanced summary at the wrap-up. One thing stood out to me: besides going NACS, all the foreign manufacturers are committed to building facilities in the US. Thanks Brandon!
You’re right, the FLO stations are reliable. Here in Québec the popular Circuit Électrique charging system also use the FLO charging units and in 4 years I’ve never had a problem with them. 😅 😊 Also, is Canada included in the N American standard area ?? Great video.😮
Alpitronics rocks. In 2.5 years BEV ownership in Europe I had exaxtly 0 (zero) failed charging sessions with their hyperchargers. Rock solid. ABB’s are not as reliable though.
Longer cables offer more flexibility in vehicle design and more importantly pull through for towing. Another RUclipsr also brought up a significant handicap on rear connectors, truck beds are designed to be removed or refitted for various work needs, essentially eliminating the possibility of a rear port.
@@wzDH106 Super chargers V3 offer 2 possible locations, no need for long dangly cables. Tow a trailer with my Y, super charger cable length is correct at a rear pull in station. The refitted trunk manufacturer can instal the charge port to function current cable length.
Ok, so this feels a bit like USA adopting their own TV standard or electricity standard, which was then not compatible with rest of the world? I do think it’s great that there will be one standard, but would have loved a global standard. In the Uk/Europe- ccs2 is the standard for most cars including Tesla..means I can charge my M Y everywhere…final thought- will the Tesla standard work well with 800v or higher voltage cars?
Given that the current Tesla Supercharger operate at up to 400 volts (maybe 500 volts), what does that mean for vehicles that have high voltage (800 volt) architectures? The big draw of opening up the Supercharger network is improved charging for other vehicles but will that really be the case for high voltage vehicles?
As a Canadian. Really love Flo's reliability. They have mostly 50kW chargers here so hopefully faster chargers start showing up because they are the most reliable network here.
Seems NACS would never work in Europe since it does not support 3-phase charging which would make the charging 3 times slower at home than what is possible today. I can charge with 11 kW at home, but that would never be possible using NACS
Just a note: There are public installed HYC400 chargers from Alpitronic in the Netherlands from Fastned ;) They aren't labeled as 400kW yet, but they do deliver it and you can clearly distinguish it from the HYC300.
The Flo charger with their innovative cable system (ccs) seems to fix the charging problem. The cord can go out to 18 ft. and it is not labor intensive. This should be the standard (Tesla included). The move is to have a uniform standard. The more charging stations there are the faster the EV adoption. CCS, NACS, Chademo can all coexist it's only a charger - Apple / Android (no problems there).
We do need more content on level 2 charging mainly plug and charge and public street charging in downtown areas for apartment/commuters that park on the street.
What are you a bureaucrat 😂😂 Tesla should never open the standard, they make Superior products why should they give away the bank, plus the more good Elon does , equals no good deed goes unpunished
Something a lot of automotive journalists (Except Kyle Connor) seem to have missed or have glossed over is that NACS is not just about the hardware. NACS covers hardware, software, communications protocols and backend processing. NACS belongs to Tesla. In my opinion, in order for the transition to NACS to successfully proceed smoothly, Tesla will have to act as a responsible standards body. NACS will have to be responsibly managed just as IEEE 802.11 or IPv6 are. Is this something a rapid iteration, "move fast & break things" type company is ready for?
Can I recommend you guys pick up some DJI mics for interviews. Comes with 2 mics in a charging case. Would be nice to just pull out the second mic when you are interviewing people.
I'm looking forward to seeing KemPower DC Fast Chargers installed in the US (especially the NorthEast / New England) most. That new Flo is also exciting.
I love the fast charger content, but I would love to see more content on commercial Level 2 content, both what is being done, and new options. Sometimes it's better to bring the charger to the car, than the car to the charger. Appartments, hotels, parking garages, boat launch.
1. I hope a lot of these manufacturers are using reliable ambient light sensing. Some of those green/red status lights and screens are way too bright at night. 2. I also hope that whatever communication strategies Tesla is using for their vehicles will also be made open to other makers. As you said previously, some of those other handshake times are far too long. A Tesla could have already added a few % in just those handshake times! 3. I bought the Lectron CCS->Tesla adapter for $220 in that time period right after you couldn't buy the Tesla one from S.K. anymore. Have you tried that one? I've only used it a couple times on 50kW units, but it seemed to work without a hitch. Kinda wish I had waited though, especially since the Tesla unit was cheaper on release anyway...
The cable management system that Flo uses is similar to that that they use when I fill up my big diesel rig not everyone has that but I seen that a lot on big truckstops. It’s a good idea I like it.
It doesn't. There is nothing special about the proprietary Tesla connector that fixes any charging infrastructure issues we see here in the US. The only benefit is getting access to the Tesla Supercharger network.
It doesn't solve that at all. It just quiets down the vocal minority who complained about the CCS connector's size and unwieldyness. Most of that is actually due to individual suppliers' designs and not the standard itself.
TY for your editorial at the end!! Everyone thinks NACS is the savior and using tesla superchargers will make it all golden. Glad you touch on closed ecosystem (tesla) being reliable and new Mfg be a new challenge, as well as one company controlling a standard is a bad idea.
Is it CCS1 as a standard that is unreliable or simply just the networks? I've used EA, Chargepoint and EVgo and all have their quirks. Other than the cable being heavy I highly doubt the look of the cable would deter people to not use the network. That is all I've heard, Tesla plugs look better, it isn't bulky and it works! Definitely not the reason to kill a standard that support V2X capabilities, fast charging speeds, cable cooling, etc. Time will tell :).
Speaking of EGMP with magic dock, it's not a problem with magic dock itself, it's something incompatible between Tesla's CCS implementation and EGMP. You can check out Europe where iirc EGMP won't charge on V2 or V3 (one of them or both...), while both being fully CCS-2
27:04 Hey Kyle- we F150 Lightning owners appreciate 180kW/500A dispensers, like the new BTC Power All-In-One (why? low pack voltage means 150kW/350A are not capable of supplying max requested charge rate from vehicle)
Would it not make more sense for Tesla to move to CCS, instead of all other chargers and cars move to NACS? Tesla’s transition to CCS has worked. Are there so much more benefits with NACS?
So Tesla should disrupt their customers to help the competition? Tesla is opening up their charging and creating NACS to cash in on the public money available to build out charging in the USA
To be clear, CharIN is an industry interest group, it is NOT an ANSI recognized SDO (Standards Development Organization) like SAE or IEEE. It would be most expedient to have NACS accepted by a SAE committee, most likely J1772. Note the Tesla connector was submitted to J1772 a decade ago, but was rejected by the legacy auto guys. Presumably those committee members will be given new marching orders now, so it should move through quickly.
Tesla should never give control of its NACS standard to any other org they mess it up. Turn it into as bad as ccs😢😢😢 nacs is only great because Tesla controls its design and specs, why mess it up by now giving it to some org to dictate its specs
Elon stop helping all these other carmakers, when will he learn that no good deed goes unpunished, your attitude is one example, he should just left Ford and GM and the rest go out of business wich they would if he stopped helping them
It's hilarious that the CHARIN CCS1 connector is the same size as the megawatt MCS connector. Should tell you pretty much all you need to know about why everyone who's used both prefers Tesla's NACS over CCS.
Tesla should never give control of its NACS standard to any other org they mess it up. Turn it into as bad as ccs😢😢😢 nacs is only great because Tesla controls its design and specs, why mess it up by now giving it to some org to dictate its specs
No. Tesla isn't charging for the plug. I think Tesla is charging for the software. That was more about accessing the Tesla Supercharger network. Ford wanted to give the customer the nice plug and charge and in car experience. IE things like the location and availability of chargers displayed on the in car map screen. Any company can use the NACS plug without Tesla's software, the same as they do with CCS.
No. That's why this is happening so fast. The design is fully open source now. The only issue I have with Tesla is that they should have done this years ago, before CCS really got a foothold.
that Zoozter idea is almost too bizarre, but in a good way. We’ll see if the market has appetite. The main risk I see is durability, i.e. wear and tear caused by weather, etc.
Kyle, I understand why you are getting exited about NACS. But the reality, it’s never been about NACS vs CCS. It’s about good charging network operator VS bad ones. Going NACS won’t solved that. In Quebec we have Flo/Circuit Electric operating in extreme winter conditions and the network has been really good. Frankly, Ford/GM decision will create uncertainty and more confusion that was almost behind us.
The only problem I’ve had with CCS is non 800v vehicles slow charging and blocking up chargers. How about leave luxury brands on CCS and put mass market brands on NACS.
Holding out hope that we might see CCS to NACS conversion kits for existing cars. Sounds like that’s pretty unlikely given the need for the charge controller to switch pins between A/C and D/C?
I realize there are issues with differing electrical systems, but what is going to happen to allow transmigration of autos from Continent to Continent? With gas and Diesel it is easy to bring your vehicles around, especially when safety is a concern. (world leaders, military). Differing international standards will make it tougher.
so i'd never heard of flywheel energy until today, Kyle. But wow, after thinking about it for a few minutes...it really seems to be something unique and possibly revolutionary. For example, gas stations already have large underground storage tanks for gasoline. Why not just install large flywheel energy storage systems where the tanks used to be? It appears to me that the main disadvantage of the technology is size--the units are fairly large. But virtually unlimited discharge cycles. It's PERFECT for high utilization charging stations that have lots of extra space to store kinetic energy. I think vehicles will always need batteries since you can't mount a gigantic flywheel on a car. But for grid support and on-site energy storage? Maybe i'm missing something but it seems like a no-brainer. Other kinetic energy storage systems like pumped hydro are overly complex and subject to wear due to heat and/or water, and complex engineering required to raise and store weight in towers, etc. This seems to solve that problem. It can go anywhere that you can fit a box with a flywheel in it. Perfect for placing underground too. Again am i missing something. it seems like this should be way bigger than it is. It must be expensive, therefore. But I wonder, how expensive could it really be? With modern materials, magnetic bearings, they could be made to be virtually maintenance free. So what if its expensive to install, if it lasts virtually forever?
I’m curious what you meant about the advantage of low power DC? I see an advantage to destination charging for amusement sites where you might spend an hour to charge. Places like truck stops or rest areas with restaurants maybe arcades
Interesting seeing the e-Cascadia. Glad to see it's a day cab. I'm a huge advocate of EVs, but I feel we are way off on battery and charging technology for OTR trucks to be EV. But I definitely feel local trucks would be good as EV
Have you seen how thick the cables are on the new V4 superchargers? Thicker than a babies arm, conversely the cables on CCS chargers for 800v vehicles are super thin. This kinda dumps on your NACs is better with lighter cables advantage.
I find the flywheel charging setup quite curious. I've known about older bus designs using flywheels as mechanical batteries, and I think the idea of boosting grid power using stored energy without worrying about chemical degradation is quite promising I decided to use my curriculum as a mechanical engineer to see *just* how viable an idea like this is. Assuming the flywheel is about .4 meters across and a constant 100 kW draw, the entire setup would last *about* an hour and 15 minutes taking all 8 flywheels from 17,000 rpm to 0 (This is excluding any losses, but assuming about 65% efficiency from storage to delivery [standard for EV power delivery], it's about 50 minutes, which does track for what their engineer said [assuming these YT subtitles are correct]). I can see a setup like this working wonders for areas that maybe don't see a lot of EV usage, but for areas that are densely populated with EVs, a grid upgrade would probably be better for reliable performance. Still a great concept in theory!
What's Kyle's investment portfolio or profit motive behind pushing Tesla's network? It's always boils down to follow the money people, follow the money.
The zoot upscaling device at the end had so many moving parts, all good in average weather, but in minus temperatures and snow.. those parts will have issues. But good luck to them.
Dropping ccs and j1772, throws early ish adopters and people who can't or don't want to afford $40K+ under the electric bus, will send the early eat these to scrap earlier. Contrary to the buzz, ccs and j1772 work fine.
I recently bought an Audi Etron. I'm totally confused about what adaptor to get so that I can use a Tesla supercharger station. I see videos on using the Tesla Supercharger stations on non-Tesla cars, but I have no idea what the status of the conversion to non-Tesla car. I understand that a few Tesla stations can charge a CCS car, but how many and how do you know to plan a trip. Everything I look at has little good to say about Electrify America.
25 kW DC... Fascinating. I've never seen one, but that would be ideal for apartments. Would charge most cars in 2.5-3 hours without being nearly as rough on the battery as a full rate DC charger. More importantly, I hope the cost for the unit would be substantially cheaper than a 100 or 150 kW charger.
Also good for places like shopping malls, hospital ramps, and movie theaters where time spent parked can be 2-4 hours. But also think those are more urban locations where you're not travelling far and AC charging speeds will suffice. I think the local circuit capacity would be better utilized by making two 11kW AC chargers for mass parking locations. Would be a lot cheaper for location owners too. I suppose if the 25kW DC charger had load sharing for 2 simultaneous adjacent spots that wouldn't be so bad.
When will something like the capability of that Stäubli multi-megawatt cable become available? That seems like a potential game changer for converting industrial machines to electric. Is Caterpillar or any other tractor manufacturer developing electrical machines?
![[4K] Watch SpaceX Catch A Starship Rocket From Space!!! #IFT5](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pIKI7y3DTXk/mqdefault.jpg)
Your bottomless well of knowledge is unbelievable and the fact that you can rattle off this highly informed narrative in essentially one take deserves an Emmy! Kudos also to Alyssa for hand holding a 1 hr+ shot!
Seriously. And then when they’re done at the conference we join Kyle in his hotel room where he continues talking for like 10 more minutes. So much information
frfr no filler no hums no ums just knowledge zoomzoom
Alyssa, great job of on the fly camera work as Kyle is just spit balling on this jaunt through the expo. Your camera movement quickly folllowed his commentary and made very little need for editing, major kudos!
What a whirlwind of a show! The timing of NACS announcements could not have been better and I’m so glad to be here at EVS36 in person
The Flo charger unit is a perfect design to directly replace gas pumps.
2 side access, access all ports, pull through.
Also status visible from distance, which can be important.
Oleg calling you out in the Q&A personally after the NACS CharIN announcement spoke volumes to your impact on the industry
Where can I listen to that?
Kempower is literally the only real comparable solution to Tesla superchargers. Having stalls with dynamic loadsharing instead of Units is cheaper and better for sharing. They really need to step up their production, we need more Kempower in Europe (and you in the US too!).
The Flo chargers are SUPER exciting to see. Love so much about all they have done there 👏💕 Thanks Flo-great ideas! (Just keep the heat/rain/snow in mind please)
Fli chargers are nothing next to Tesla chargers I use both and now I will only teslas
But did you notice their monster cable was liquid cooled, and "As a result was big and heavy"? Tesla's V3 cable is 3/4 inch in diameter. Very easy to move. Two thumbs down on Flo. And that worm drive is a maintenance issue.
The flo units around here that Francis uses cannot charge an Ioniq 5 or EV 6 or other high-voltage EV’s. Of course they are old units that Francis has bought and installed at their locations, I figure because providers in Canada have installed new units that can charge high-voltage EV’s.
@@glenngore6609 Glen, this is simply not true. Do you have any examples of FLO chargers not working with an Ioniq 5? The V3 SmartDC is the same unit in Canada as the States
There are plenty of examples here in Oklahoma, where Francis Electric has flo chargers at most of their DCFC charging stations. My local Francis site has two flo units but they cannot charge my Ioniq 5. Some of their sites have only flo charging units while some sites have 2 or 3 different types of charging units, but only one of the 3 types that Francis uses is able to charge an 800-volt EV. I have never been able to charge my Ioniq 5 with those flo machines and I have talked with Francis techs on their help line where they confirmed to me that those units cannot charge an 800-volt vehicle.
@@omidtoussi
I like how Kyle says it’s “not going to be 2hrs long”. I had to check, because I know he likes to talk. And I’m 100% good with that, I like how he talks about every single aspect, he’s a legit journalist 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I absolutely love your conference walkthroughs, Kyle. This is just fantastic. Great job Alyssa as well. Plus the Branden videobomb was epic.
Glad Charin got on board with NACS. Full speed ahead.
Wasn't really a choice..... But, they may try to impose certain restrictions/ requirements (payment, etc)
@@rogerstarkey5390 Tesla is the one who will be imposing payments to get Supercharger access. Not sure how Charin gets operating cash.
@@barryw9473 If and when the NACS officially becomes a standard, Tesla won’t be dictating anything outside of their Supercharger network. As a chartered member of the standard governing body, they will have input, but the point of a standard is to remove the proprietary nature of the technology.
I just wanted to say that Alyssa does excellent video work. You go girl!
I think that XCharge 95 kWh unit is really exciting for rural installs. Most of the “fast chargers” I go to are 30-50 kWh, and 62.5 is a treat. Being able to do 95 kWh not far from camping areas would be awesome!
Forget that. We need 250kW+ units in rural areas as the higher vehicle throughput means fewer total units are needed which reduces the cost of the network and increases customer satisfaction. Slow charging sucks unless I'm sleeping.
Rural and Company chargers (so folks could charge morning and afternoon - 2+ vehicles a day)
Watched your test videos late last year and then that now infamous vid where you tested the charging infrastructure in freezing conditions. Since then you’ve done more than most to continue testing all charging systems and the net effect of having all these different ‘Providers’ on what needs to be an utterly reliable charging infrastructure. It makes sense that the best solution should be a) recognised as such and b) adopted if the transition to electrification is going to be completed smoothly. Huge credit to you Kyle, you’re soaking up all the technical subtleties and nuanced arguments and making sense of it. Only an independently minded person could have done that. Geoff Chown 👍
So glad Flo used the cable management that made long hoses for gas & diesel pumps easy, but then improved it!
Glad to see this conference in Sacramento, the convention center was recently renovated to accommodate larger events so looks like it paying off. We also have a great auto museum if you have time you should go check out.
Awesome. Thanks for the tour. When Kyle speaks, the industry listens.
When Kyle speaks, the industry says
"Oh No! Not him again!!"
Kempower ➕
S series needs to go all over the northern parts of the United States 🇺🇸
I have seen cable management like that Flo system before... at Costco.
Now that everyone Is supporting NACS Kyle, can you work on world peace?
Then, the US 2 party system (but that's probably beyond saving, World Peace would be easier)
Not everyone is supporting it lol!!!
"Everyone" is just proprietary US. They should habe chosen the global standard instead of the limited/outdated NACS..
Yeah he can do it, go Kyle!
OK, that was a sober and balanced summary at the wrap-up. One thing stood out to me: besides going NACS, all the foreign manufacturers are committed to building facilities in the US. Thanks Brandon!
So many manufacturers in what is still an infant industry. It will be interesting to see which companies are still around in five years.
Thank you so much, Kyle, for the summary of EVS36. Truly appreciated.
Perfect camerawork, Alyssa.
Seriously. Keeping things steady and on target while weaving through the crowd is not easy.
What equipment does Alyssa use?
You’re right, the FLO stations are reliable. Here in Québec the popular Circuit Électrique charging system also use the FLO charging units and in 4 years I’ve never had a problem with them. 😅 😊 Also, is Canada included in the N American standard area ?? Great video.😮
Alpitronics rocks. In 2.5 years BEV ownership in Europe I had exaxtly 0 (zero) failed charging sessions with their hyperchargers. Rock solid. ABB’s are not as reliable though.
the worst chargers where from efacec
Excellent overview, thanks so much!
Tesla Super charges have a excellent cable management system, charge port location needs a standard.
I'd say that's mostly because the pre v4 cables are on the short side. Which works great for the handful of cars they were designed for.
@@petehelme7714
Best Selling Car Worldwide In Q1: The Tesla Model Y
Longer cables offer more flexibility in vehicle design and more importantly pull through for towing. Another RUclipsr also brought up a significant handicap on rear connectors, truck beds are designed to be removed or refitted for various work needs, essentially eliminating the possibility of a rear port.
@@wzDH106
Super chargers V3 offer 2 possible locations, no need for long dangly cables.
Tow a trailer with my Y, super charger cable length is correct at a rear pull in station.
The refitted trunk manufacturer can instal the charge port to function current cable length.
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 Who the hell cares dude.
Thanks Kyle for also answering my question - cable change won’t totally fix any already bad third party EVSEs.
Thanks Kyle, lots of great content, always look forward to your updates and show visits! Keep it coming!
Such a great insight!! great job man
Ok, so this feels a bit like USA adopting their own TV standard or electricity standard, which was then not compatible with rest of the world? I do think it’s great that there will be one standard, but would have loved a global standard. In the Uk/Europe- ccs2 is the standard for most cars including Tesla..means I can charge my M Y everywhere…final thought- will the Tesla standard work well with 800v or higher voltage cars?
Thank you Kyle for recording this with HDR, looks so nice on my iPhone and brighter to see all the detail.
Would have liked to see what Wallbox has on tap for public charging, home charging, and NACS.
Thank You for supporting ethical Plant-based food and for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ☮ ❤
Given that the current Tesla Supercharger operate at up to 400 volts (maybe 500 volts), what does that mean for vehicles that have high voltage (800 volt) architectures? The big draw of opening up the Supercharger network is improved charging for other vehicles but will that really be the case for high voltage vehicles?
As a Canadian. Really love Flo's reliability. They have mostly 50kW chargers here so hopefully faster chargers start showing up because they are the most reliable network here.
Flo reliability is terrible next to the Tesla chargers
Seems NACS would never work in Europe since it does not support 3-phase charging which would make the charging 3 times slower at home than what is possible today.
I can charge with 11 kW at home, but that would never be possible using NACS
For 3phase AC you can take Type2 and for DC can take NACS. CCS can be dropped worldwide.
Just a note: There are public installed HYC400 chargers from Alpitronic in the Netherlands from Fastned ;)
They aren't labeled as 400kW yet, but they do deliver it and you can clearly distinguish it from the HYC300.
What about EnelX? Do you know or have anything to say about them?
This guy is good! Been watching for over 30min and am still hooked.
The Flo charger with their innovative cable system (ccs) seems to fix the charging problem. The cord can go out to 18 ft. and it is not labor intensive. This should be the standard (Tesla included). The move is to have a uniform standard. The more charging stations there are the faster the EV adoption. CCS, NACS, Chademo can all coexist it's only a charger - Apple / Android (no problems there).
yeah, their stuff seemed very impressive. and the CCS-1 handle was nice and compact.
🙋♂️THANKS KYLE …FOR SHARING THIS INFO AND WE HOPE THAT THIS GOES SMOOTHLY AS POSSIBLE 👍🤗😎💚💚💚
We do need more content on level 2 charging mainly plug and charge and public street charging in downtown areas for apartment/commuters that park on the street.
The part about HYC/Alpitronics was cool, awesome to hear they are headquartering in Charlotte. I love this city.
Is the NACS open source? Does it require any license free or paid from Tesla? Does it require their approval?
What are you a bureaucrat 😂😂 Tesla should never open the standard, they make Superior products why should they give away the bank, plus the more good Elon does , equals no good deed goes unpunished
Something a lot of automotive journalists (Except Kyle Connor) seem to have missed or have glossed over is that NACS is not just about the hardware. NACS covers hardware, software, communications protocols and backend processing. NACS belongs to Tesla. In my opinion, in order for the transition to NACS to successfully proceed smoothly, Tesla will have to act as a responsible standards body. NACS will have to be responsibly managed just as IEEE 802.11 or IPv6 are. Is this something a rapid iteration, "move fast & break things" type company is ready for?
Wow, that Flo unit looks JUST like a regular gas pump.
Can I recommend you guys pick up some DJI mics for interviews. Comes with 2 mics in a charging case. Would be nice to just pull out the second mic when you are interviewing people.
We use them and love em
I'm looking forward to seeing KemPower DC Fast Chargers installed in the US (especially the NorthEast / New England) most. That new Flo is also exciting.
I love the fast charger content, but I would love to see more content on commercial Level 2 content, both what is being done, and new options. Sometimes it's better to bring the charger to the car, than the car to the charger. Appartments, hotels, parking garages, boat launch.
1. I hope a lot of these manufacturers are using reliable ambient light sensing. Some of those green/red status lights and screens are way too bright at night.
2. I also hope that whatever communication strategies Tesla is using for their vehicles will also be made open to other makers. As you said previously, some of those other handshake times are far too long. A Tesla could have already added a few % in just those handshake times!
3. I bought the Lectron CCS->Tesla adapter for $220 in that time period right after you couldn't buy the Tesla one from S.K. anymore. Have you tried that one? I've only used it a couple times on 50kW units, but it seemed to work without a hitch. Kinda wish I had waited though, especially since the Tesla unit was cheaper on release anyway...
The cable management system that Flo uses is similar to that that they use when I fill up my big diesel rig not everyone has that but I seen that a lot on big truckstops. It’s a good idea I like it.
If the issue is EVSE reliability and ease of use - which is a software (& experience) aspect, how does changing connector solve this problem ?
It doesn't. There is nothing special about the proprietary Tesla connector that fixes any charging infrastructure issues we see here in the US. The only benefit is getting access to the Tesla Supercharger network.
It doesn't solve that at all. It just quiets down the vocal minority who complained about the CCS connector's size and unwieldyness. Most of that is actually due to individual suppliers' designs and not the standard itself.
TY for your editorial at the end!! Everyone thinks NACS is the savior and using tesla superchargers will make it all golden. Glad you touch on closed ecosystem (tesla) being reliable and new Mfg be a new challenge, as well as one company controlling a standard is a bad idea.
Is it CCS1 as a standard that is unreliable or simply just the networks? I've used EA, Chargepoint and EVgo and all have their quirks. Other than the cable being heavy I highly doubt the look of the cable would deter people to not use the network. That is all I've heard, Tesla plugs look better, it isn't bulky and it works! Definitely not the reason to kill a standard that support V2X capabilities, fast charging speeds, cable cooling, etc. Time will tell :).
That zoozter flywheel device is kinda neat. I'm curious as to the safety and reliability of something like that but a very neat concept.
Come to Montréal Canada. Level 2 Street charging stations everywhere.
We do have Chademo on the left with J1772 on the right, just look at the Nissan Leaf.
I watch this and is very very great and I am from Sacramento where the convention was
Zoozter-100 installed in SC off I-77! It is at a Scotchman Travel Plaza on I-77
Speaking of EGMP with magic dock, it's not a problem with magic dock itself, it's something incompatible between Tesla's CCS implementation and EGMP. You can check out Europe where iirc EGMP won't charge on V2 or V3 (one of them or both...), while both being fully CCS-2
The Zoozter flywheel-based system looks pretty interesting. I wonder if it could work as a home-based solution as well.
How does Kyle talk, without a single break in words, for an hour. Such a talent talker lol.
What's even more fun is watching it at 1.5x speed (which I do for most videos I watch, get thru more, still get the content)
Vaccinated with a Phonograph needle.
@@Dive-Bar-Casanova lol what? Vaccinated? What does that have to do with anything?
27:04 Hey Kyle- we F150 Lightning owners appreciate 180kW/500A dispensers, like the new BTC Power All-In-One (why? low pack voltage means 150kW/350A are not capable of supplying max requested charge rate from vehicle)
Would it not make more sense for Tesla to move to CCS, instead of all other chargers and cars move to NACS? Tesla’s transition to CCS has worked. Are there so much more benefits with NACS?
So Tesla should disrupt their customers to help the competition? Tesla is opening up their charging and creating NACS to cash in on the public money available to build out charging in the USA
CCS must have at least 1 advantage over NACS, right? What about higher power capacity?
To be clear, CharIN is an industry interest group, it is NOT an ANSI recognized SDO (Standards Development Organization) like SAE or IEEE. It would be most expedient to have NACS accepted by a SAE committee, most likely J1772. Note the Tesla connector was submitted to J1772 a decade ago, but was rejected by the legacy auto guys. Presumably those committee members will be given new marching orders now, so it should move through quickly.
Tesla should never give control of its NACS standard to any other org they mess it up. Turn it into as bad as ccs😢😢😢 nacs is only great because Tesla controls its design and specs, why mess it up by now giving it to some org to dictate its specs
Are there Flo chargers in Colorado? Will chargers start having weather protection canopies like gas stations?
Just posted elsewhere they look perfect to rip out gas pumps and place them on the island the pumps sit on.
At the end Kyle understands that is not so simple as he thought. No car manufacturer want to be dependent of Tesla.
Elon stop helping all these other carmakers, when will he learn that no good deed goes unpunished, your attitude is one example, he should just left Ford and GM and the rest go out of business wich they would if he stopped helping them
Don’t think that Mr. Musk is doing this without any self-interest
It's hilarious that the CHARIN CCS1 connector is the same size as the megawatt MCS connector. Should tell you pretty much all you need to know about why everyone who's used both prefers Tesla's NACS over CCS.
would it be possible to buy an adapter so I can chaarge a CHADEMO car on the tesla charging stations?
Would love to see NACS be submitted to ISO and become a standard. Similar to ISO 8802 for ethernet.
Tesla should never give control of its NACS standard to any other org they mess it up. Turn it into as bad as ccs😢😢😢 nacs is only great because Tesla controls its design and specs, why mess it up by now giving it to some org to dictate its specs
Do Tesla get a license fee each time someone wants to add a NACS charger?
No. Tesla isn't charging for the plug. I think Tesla is charging for the software. That was more about accessing the Tesla Supercharger network. Ford wanted to give the customer the nice plug and charge and in car experience. IE things like the location and availability of chargers displayed on the in car map screen. Any company can use the NACS plug without Tesla's software, the same as they do with CCS.
No. That's why this is happening so fast. The design is fully open source now. The only issue I have with Tesla is that they should have done this years ago, before CCS really got a foothold.
Legislation will need to change as currently ccs is a condition of funding with the billions of tax dollars
Wait for the "97% uptime target" to be mentioned in the near future as a precursor to "CCS1 isn't working"
@@Noisy_Cricket
Tesla DID "do this years ago" (10+)
Problem was, "the others" simply ignored them.
Got the Signet surge with my EV6 when I plugged in at 6% SOC. Fortunately it stabilized after a couple of minutes when I reached 10% SOC.
that Zoozter idea is almost too bizarre, but in a good way. We’ll see if the market has appetite. The main risk I see is durability, i.e. wear and tear caused by weather, etc.
Kyle, I understand why you are getting exited about NACS. But the reality, it’s never been about NACS vs CCS. It’s about good charging network operator VS bad ones.
Going NACS won’t solved that.
In Quebec we have Flo/Circuit Electric operating in extreme winter conditions and the network has been really good.
Frankly, Ford/GM decision will create uncertainty and more confusion that was almost behind us.
How come no chargepoint at this show?😮
The only problem I’ve had with CCS is non 800v vehicles slow charging and blocking up chargers. How about leave luxury brands on CCS and put mass market brands on NACS.
Holding out hope that we might see CCS to NACS conversion kits for existing cars. Sounds like that’s pretty unlikely given the need for the charge controller to switch pins between A/C and D/C?
I realize there are issues with differing electrical systems, but what is going to happen to allow transmigration of autos from Continent to Continent? With gas and Diesel it is easy to bring your vehicles around, especially when safety is a concern. (world leaders, military). Differing international standards will make it tougher.
Thank you for the long informative video. :-)
so i'd never heard of flywheel energy until today, Kyle. But wow, after thinking about it for a few minutes...it really seems to be something unique and possibly revolutionary. For example, gas stations already have large underground storage tanks for gasoline. Why not just install large flywheel energy storage systems where the tanks used to be? It appears to me that the main disadvantage of the technology is size--the units are fairly large. But virtually unlimited discharge cycles. It's PERFECT for high utilization charging stations that have lots of extra space to store kinetic energy. I think vehicles will always need batteries since you can't mount a gigantic flywheel on a car. But for grid support and on-site energy storage? Maybe i'm missing something but it seems like a no-brainer. Other kinetic energy storage systems like pumped hydro are overly complex and subject to wear due to heat and/or water, and complex engineering required to raise and store weight in towers, etc. This seems to solve that problem. It can go anywhere that you can fit a box with a flywheel in it. Perfect for placing underground too. Again am i missing something. it seems like this should be way bigger than it is. It must be expensive, therefore. But I wonder, how expensive could it really be? With modern materials, magnetic bearings, they could be made to be virtually maintenance free. So what if its expensive to install, if it lasts virtually forever?
I’m curious what you meant about the advantage of low power DC? I see an advantage to destination charging for amusement sites where you might spend an hour to charge. Places like truck stops or rest areas with restaurants maybe arcades
Interesting seeing the e-Cascadia. Glad to see it's a day cab. I'm a huge advocate of EVs, but I feel we are way off on battery and charging technology for OTR trucks to be EV. But I definitely feel local trucks would be good as EV
Does NACS allow for a non-Tesla-owned alternative charging network?
Oops. You answered the question in the positive several minutes later.
Why do you care, nobody else can make chargers as good as Tesla I would never go to any charger that's not a Tesla Island
Have you seen how thick the cables are on the new V4 superchargers? Thicker than a babies arm, conversely the cables on CCS chargers for 800v vehicles are super thin. This kinda dumps on your NACs is better with lighter cables advantage.
I find the flywheel charging setup quite curious. I've known about older bus designs using flywheels as mechanical batteries, and I think the idea of boosting grid power using stored energy without worrying about chemical degradation is quite promising
I decided to use my curriculum as a mechanical engineer to see *just* how viable an idea like this is. Assuming the flywheel is about .4 meters across and a constant 100 kW draw, the entire setup would last *about* an hour and 15 minutes taking all 8 flywheels from 17,000 rpm to 0 (This is excluding any losses, but assuming about 65% efficiency from storage to delivery [standard for EV power delivery], it's about 50 minutes, which does track for what their engineer said [assuming these YT subtitles are correct]). I can see a setup like this working wonders for areas that maybe don't see a lot of EV usage, but for areas that are densely populated with EVs, a grid upgrade would probably be better for reliable performance. Still a great concept in theory!
Great show.....The Zoozter flywheel thingymabob was really interesting. They also had a great animation to explain everything.... Go Israel!
22:07 Woman at the desk looking at you like “I can hear you!”😂 Seriously though. Thank you for being honest and not holding back.
What's Kyle's investment portfolio or profit motive behind pushing Tesla's network?
It's always boils down to follow the money people, follow the money.
Great and interesting content per usual Kyle and Alyssa. Why not go to South Korea? Perhaps you could schedule your China visit at the same time.
It is pity that you have skipped EkoEnergetyka. Great video. I am wondering if this will have any impact on other regions like Europe or Asia
Lovin the HDR! ✨
The zoot upscaling device at the end had so many moving parts, all good in average weather, but in minus temperatures and snow.. those parts will have issues. But good luck to them.
You have big voice to tell everyone what is ok and what isn't
Dropping ccs and j1772, throws early ish adopters and people who can't or don't want to afford $40K+ under the electric bus, will send the early eat these to scrap earlier. Contrary to the buzz, ccs and j1772 work fine.
You can always use an adapter, its honestly no big deal.
@@TheRealMartin let them use an adapter
I recently bought an Audi Etron. I'm totally confused about what adaptor to get so that I can use a Tesla supercharger station. I see videos on using the Tesla Supercharger stations on non-Tesla cars, but I have no idea what the status of the conversion to non-Tesla car. I understand that a few Tesla stations can charge a CCS car, but how many and how do you know to plan a trip. Everything I look at has little good to say about Electrify America.
i wonder if the SAE group/Charin become the proprietor for NACS with Tesla as a signatory?
I didn't get to see the face of those phoenix contact cables at 16:46. Are those cables type 1 or type 2?
25 kW DC... Fascinating. I've never seen one, but that would be ideal for apartments. Would charge most cars in 2.5-3 hours without being nearly as rough on the battery as a full rate DC charger. More importantly, I hope the cost for the unit would be substantially cheaper than a 100 or 150 kW charger.
Also good for places like shopping malls, hospital ramps, and movie theaters where time spent parked can be 2-4 hours. But also think those are more urban locations where you're not travelling far and AC charging speeds will suffice. I think the local circuit capacity would be better utilized by making two 11kW AC chargers for mass parking locations. Would be a lot cheaper for location owners too. I suppose if the 25kW DC charger had load sharing for 2 simultaneous adjacent spots that wouldn't be so bad.
When will something like the capability of that Stäubli multi-megawatt cable become available? That seems like a potential game changer for converting industrial machines to electric. Is Caterpillar or any other tractor manufacturer developing electrical machines?