Every way the CS70M is BETTER than the Yamaha CS-80!
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2023
- Many people do not know about this rare, vintage synthesizer, the "update" to the greatest analog polysynth of all time. The CS70m was Yamaha's last chance to capture the analog synthesizer market before they went all in with digital synthesizers like the DX7. Today there are less than 1,000 that have survived. I think this synthesizer should be considered as legendary as the Roland Jupiter 8, Juno 106, Sequential Prophet 5 and Oberheim OB-X. It's older sibling, the Yamaha CS-80, was championed by Vangelis, who wrote and performed the score to Blade Runner.
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CORRECTIONS:
"CS" actually stands for Combo Synth.
The CS-80 does have a variable sustain slider.
0:00 Intro Jam
1:06 Stereo Oscillator / Channel / Binaural Output
2:25 Polyphonic Sequencer
5:51 Unison Mode + Splits
7:10 Switchable Filter (Highpass, Bandpass + Lowpass)
9:21 Time X 5 (ADSR Multiplier)
10:31 2 LFO's
11:23 Dynamic LFO (Rate Changes Over Time)
11:52 Dynamic Filter FM
12:23 Sample + Hold LFO
12:41 Glide + and - (Positive + Negative Pitch Modulation)
13:29 Pulse Width Envelopes
14:29 6-Stage Envelopes (Combining Envelopes)
15:00 Ring Mod as a Mod Source (Ring Mod PWM?!)
15:31 Ring Mod to Filter FM
16:15 Pulse Width Through Zero
16:59 Pitch Wheel in Intervals (3rd, 5th, Octave)
17:45 Stereo LFO Effects (Mod Wheel Routable)
18:26 Aftertouch to LFO VCA Modulation
19:04 Ensemble with 3 Bucket Brigade Delays (Roland VP-330 sounds)
19:32 Tremolo Button Adjusts Slowly Changes Speed
20:01 Fully Editable Digital Patch Memory!
21:02 LA Synthesis ala D-50 + JX-10
21:41 No Leaking Batteries!
22:20 Save Patches to Magnetic Cards!
22:46 Auto-tune Button
23:18 1/3rd The Weight!
23:55 CV Trigger and Gate Out
24:15 3 Expression Pedal Inputs (Modulation, Volume, Brilliance)
25:18 Variable Sustain Slider
25:45 VCF Level Slider Removed (Redundant)
26:08 PRICE
26:34 Cons
26:42 Polyphonic Aftertouch
27:32 Ribbon Controller
28:11 No Velocity or Keyboard Tracking
29:11 Shared Channel Controls
30:14 6 Bitimbral Voices
30:52 LFO Intensity Not Mixable Between Sources
32:16 Subtle Vibrato is Impossible
33:47 Filter Stepping (ADSR + LFO are smooth)
34:43 No Aftertouch to Brilliance
35:54 Ensemble + Tremolo are Mono
37:16 Single Filter per voice
37:54 Ring Mod only affects Channel I
40:14 No Reverse Saw LFO Shape
41:12 CS-80 History
41:47 CS70M History
43:00 Conclusion
#vst #vstplugins #synth #synths #vintagesynth #synthesizer #analogsynth #musicproduction #sounddesign #keyboardsounds #vintagesynthesizer #analogsynthesizer #synthwave #electronicmusic #musictechnology #freepresets #omnisphere #ericpersing #roland
#yamaha #cs80 #cs70m #arturia #behringer #vangelis #bladerunner #Cherryaudio #gx80 #CS80V #DS80 
Хобби
The first person who can comment who said all 27 Blade Runner universe quotes in this video I'll send you a free T-shirt and a free download link for my vintage drum sample pack Diodes & Rust!
Hey VC & co. 👍 Awesome classic vintage beast this!
It really deserves to be up there with the other legendary synths.
I bought two CS-70M NOS in 1987 for $300 each. They couldn't sell them in the midi era so they languished in the warehouse. I liked how you could have four sounds going with the layering, pretty cool. I also bought two NOS CS-30L from the same warehouse pretty cheap. Those were the days!
That's incredible! I'm hoping to find a CS-30 at some point. Any other synth gems you found like that?
Many bargains, but I was a dealer/collector for decades. A few other choice scores (in AUD):
ARP 2600 & Roland SH-5 -$50 for both.
Digisound 28 module system $50
Obie Four Voice -$350
Roland System 700 modular - $900
Klaus Shulze's Korg PS-3300 prototype - $1,000
RMI Harmonic Synthesiser - $400
Plus hundreds of others, dang I had fun! @@VultureCulture
@davidjames1858 four voice for $350? That's melting my mind 🫠
The Four Voice was from a mate, he played in King Fox. That's all they were worth in 1986, everyone wanted midi. Both of my Chromas were $600 each, the Quadra was $400, Jupiter 8 was $600. You could get more for a Jupiter 6 because it had midi. The cheap era for those big, boofy polys. I just couldn't resist because I could appreciate the intrinsic value. Had an OBSX, OBXa, OB-8, Prophet 5, Trident etc. I never managed to score a Memorymoog, SCI T-8 or CS-80. My best friend had a CS-80 that he'd 'permanently borrowed' from Mackie College. Then he sold it for a grand to buy a DX7 heh @@VultureCulture
@@davidjames1858 Well, the DX7 is a much better keybord than the CS80. It had Midi and more memory.
Loved this.
I'm glad you enjoyed it! 🙏
Great work! The CS70M is a polyphonic CS20M. It has got more toys than the CS80 but no where as mighty sounding as the big brother.
I've never played an 80 but I have to say, the 70M sounds pretty mighty
This video is awesome! Thanks for the demo and comparison. I learned quite a bit.
I'm glad you found it helpful! 🙏
I had the chance to play a CS70M at the synth museum in Berkeley back in 2012 and I fell in love immediately! Since then I try to get my hands on one, but it seems they are rare as gold ❤
It's almost impossible to find one that's not insanely expensive.
Crazy --- I did not know this thing existed! It is amazing!
It definitely fell under the radar unfortunately! Glad to have the privilege of showing it off!
Hey man nice work, love the vintage synth education.
I'm glad you enjoyed it 🙏
Great walkthrough Vulture Culture, really enjoyed it. Love the CS70M and CS-50/60/80 equally, but the CS70M does have some really cool capabilities. Both series sound amazing!
They're all truly gorgeous sounding, and besides the CS in their name, they're all so unique!
Glad you enjoyed the video 🙏
So awesome 🔊✨✨✨ I’m curious what are you recording to? Digital interface or tape? Your recordings sound really good
All digital - focusrite audio interface, that's it!
I tried to buy one of those e70 organs supposedly some of the cs 80 architecture without analog oscillators someone else nabbed it before i could
Yeah - that's a thing. I think you can modify the hell out of it to get some sort of CS-80- like instrument.
Word! I read that article where we all got the idea we might be worthy of a cs80 lol
Wow! This is going to be super cool!
I love Yamaha synths (esp. ones from 70-90s).
Around 2000 they stopped innovating really. Last good synths were FS1R and EX5, in my opinion. Nowadays they seem want to clone Clavia synths. :) Montage (and MODX) is nice, but is essentially MOTIF + stripped-down FS1R with improved control and effects…
Everyone keeps saying I need to check out an EX5 on the channel - we'll see if I can come across one!
@@VultureCulture I cannot highly enough recommend trying out EX5. Just FDSP and VL alone will keep you busy. Floyd Steinberg made great videos on EX5. For example: ruclips.net/video/vgK9fnhdWz0/видео.html
World first. Well done I have never ever seen a take down of the cs70m. Always wondered how it was compared to the cs80. I think Yamaha were trying to get a programmable sequencer polysynth to make it's mark. This was extraordinary for it's time. I remember reading all about this synth in my monthly mag when it came out thinking Gosh a sequencer.
Yeah, the polyphonic sequencer is crazy! Thank you
sounds amazing...love the vid bro!
Thank you so much my man 🙏
This video is top notch quality! Great structure and presentation, very informative. Thank you very much, VC!
I have only CS10, that I got very cheap. I can definitely hear its sound character in CS70m. The CS10 is super fun to play and is prone to “happy accidents”.
I can fully agree on confusing “Init level” and “Attack level” envelope controls though :). The only problem after getting CS10 is that I want to try CS30 one day…
I hope to get a CS-30 one day too!
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! 🙏
Sweet demo as always.
Thank you very much!
I really love this synth but find the current prices totally insane. I’m guessing most people do since they never seem to actually sell. The same 2-3 get listed and sit for 6 months, get taken down for a little while and then get re-listed for the same crazy price. I’ve been watching these closely for the last couple years. Shipping them is also a crazy ordeal.
I got a more sanguine price from Vintage Standards (although it was still very expensive). The link for his reverb shop is in the description.
Regardless, no synth is worth what people are asking for right now on Reverb.
@@VultureCulture I’m seeing a lot of prices dropping. Sucks for the flippers and “investors” but that’s awesome for everyone else. Unfortunately I just bought a 3000 sq ft Victorian home for the studio and label so I really shouldn’t be getting any gear. But also…. I have all this space now!! I did crack and buy a Tempest in the original box because it was down to only about 1k.
That's an awesome drum machine I've always wanted to try !
@@VultureCulture now if I can just steal the lifetime from about 5 people I might be able to use all my stuff for everything I would like to do. Thanks for the CS70M video. Best demo I have seen of it. I’m stuck with the CS40M and modded CS30 for now
Those are both pretty incredible instruments as well! I'm curious, if you had to have only the CS-30 or CS40M, which would you pick?
Another amazing video 😊
+1 !!! (as always for VC, right up my alley his content 😔🙏🎹🎶💥)
Thank you very much 🙏
Thank you for this wonderful video. Yes, the CS70M was the culmination of analog at Yamaha. It should be noted that this synthesizer was in fact intended to work in duo with the SK30 SK50D to reveal their full potential... Huge and totally unknown... For this there was an interface called Keycode on these instruments which allowed them to be connected . I would give a lot to be able to listen to these two instruments playing together, these two instruments complementing each other! maybe one day you can make such a video, it would be completely new. Thanks again.
I very much want to find an SK-30 and try it out! I do mention this in the video btw
The only thing Yamaha did that was wrong was to stop building these. That vibrato control ring is amazing. Cool tech.
A very neat way to interact with a piece of history.
If Uli Behringer would do a copy kat version of this instead of the DS-80, I would ask the pope to canonize him. Much more of a player synth, and more modern feature set.
It's probably not too late to incorporate both sets of features into one!
Yeah, why not mash the two together to make a super synth!
I totally agree. As a former owner of an 80, I’ve been trying to convince the synth community ever since this century. Lol but, they’re stuck on such an ICONIC narrative. I believe they’re blinded by peer rhetoric. Jmo.
@hurricane6014 absolutely. Btw I'm actually doing a livestream on the 70 tonight if you want to swing through: ruclips.net/user/liveM6dZxFfTWLA?si=CPeAeoWTpMC6FnV3
It doesn’t matter how many extra bells and whistles the 70 has. It does not sound as good as the 80. I’ve never seen a 70 video that made me want to own one. It just doesn’t have the character of the original trio of the 50/60/80. They have a very specific, elegant, melancholic sound.
No doubt that the original 50/60/80 sound incredible. I hope to one day be able to try them out against each other
Well done! Very detailed video, wise words but there's one thing: "C" does not stand for "compact" but for "combo", like f. e. CE30 = Combo Ensemble, a.s.f. It definitely makes more sense & I've read that anywhere. Btw by now we share the same Ensemble Effect:Since Thursday Yamaha GS-2 replaced the kitchen table but certainly no one dines on it.
You're correct! I'll put an addendum in the description! Thank you for catching that.
And that's awesome!
You're welcome... ...but what GS stands for I still have no clue. By their wooden keybed II'd assume Grand Synth. 1 & Grand Synth. 2, but that actually sounds like Grandma & Grandpa to me.
Excellent video Alex, and a very comprehensive comparison! You must have had spent some considerable time with a CS80 at some point I take it? I remember seeing one in the early 90's at my local Daddy's Junky Music, but I had no clue what it really was. I seem to remember it priced at a few thousand dollars. Although the CS80 had the advantages and defining features you mentioned, I think you nailed the CS70M pros, which seem to be quite numerous. Congrats on the acquisition, a true 'holy grail' synth I think!
I'm glad you enjoyed it. I've been watching your videos and they're great! You should have 10x the subscribers you do (although subscribers are mostly a vanity metric nowadays anyways.)
Crazy to think there was a CS-80 priced at a few thousand!! And I've never gotten the chance to play one. All the info in this video is from reading the manuals, and watching as many videos as I could to make sure I didn't get anything wrong. So far the only thing I've got wrong is that CS stands for Combo Synthesizer not Compact Synthesizer lol.
@@VultureCulture Ahh thanks a lot, much appreciated!
I know, if I only knew what I was looking at back then! Wow, now that is impressive. It seems like you're so intimately familiar with the CS-80, well done on being so thorough. I would hope that small error would be forgivable!! 🤣🤣 Anyway, looking forward to catching up on more from your channel...
great video (liked and subscribed), i own a cs70m and i learnt a lot about it
That's the highest compliment 🙏
Thank you and welcome to the Vulture Culture!
Subscribed for mentioning Leon Kowalski in your video.😆
And for the good content, too.🍻
Sorry for calling you out 🤣
Strange member of the CS-family that I had never heard of until now!
Although it had a lot of features that the CS-80 didn't have, to me the sound itself sounded more "modern"/clean and upfront than on the CS-80 that sounds much more lush and warm if I go by this video.
And without the polyphonic aftertouch, the ribbon control and lots of other central CS-80 specials it kind of, to me, puts it into another category of some of the 80:s polysynths where it still probably was very good.
And the brighter sound can probably fit in a mix better if you don't wanna sound like a Vangelis "wannabe"...
In fact, the sound itself in the "cleanliness" and more "modern" stable sound reminded me at times of the Jupiter 6,which also had 6 voices and multimode filters.
Not that they are similar in other ways since the architecture differs.
But it puts it more in that cleaner analog sound category.
Also some of the Oberheims, for the bright pad sounds!
Interesting nevertheless to get to know about an analog Poly from the CS-family that I never had heard of before!
BTW that ribbon control famous of the CS-80 is also a great feature of the dirt cheap Arturia MicroFreak! And it actually has polyphonic aftertouch too. Crazy!
(Although probably as far away from a CS-synth you can get in sound)
I think the Microfreak is awesome!
Yes, my goal with this video was to show how great this synth is. I think it gets overshadowed by the 80 for obvious reasons, but comparing it to the Jupiter 8, Prophet 5 and OB-X it has a lot of really special features!
Mmm... Love your demos.
I can't wait until you do the Oberheim Xpander, SCI Prophet Vs, and Roland Jupiter 6.
Those are all awesome synths id love to cover. I almost bought a Jupiter 6 once but it sounded very similar to the Polaris and the build quality did not feel great so I skipped on it.
@@VultureCulture Yes, i got mine for $700 back in the day, I ned some Roland sound for my remixes. :)
That's amazing!!
Wow. I wonder what a hybrid CS+DX1 synth would have been
Dear God lol.
how do you get "velocity" on the keyboard exactly? what's that midi thing?
Look up Neova by Enhancia - it's a ring midi controller. It does not add velocity but it can add a whole lot of expression (you can send midi messages to filter cut off and volume)
is it reliable? looks like the kind of stuff I don't trust lol@@VultureCulture
very reliable. the only issue is the company went out of business. Genki makes a similar product that loopop reviewed but I can't say either way on it
Well, you had me convinced after number two. Then it just went up from there.
It's actually crazy how many improvements they put into the CS70M. For some reason, it's almost never talked about in the synth community.
@@VultureCulture I have already looked at prices (and not in my current budget) so it is apparent people know what they have. Will keep an eye/ear out though. In addition to more budget I would also need some more space for it. The pain is real lol.
Synthesizers are all pain and then they break 🫠
Soon I will be restoring friend's CS-70m. I hope I will able to fix everything. Fortunately ... it is not CS-80, so carrying to the third floor should be ok. Soundwise both great machines!
They're both really incredible and luckily from the era where they still made them to be repaired. Good luck and let me know how it goes!
@@VultureCulture It has those magnetic cards. If I don't manage to repair the card reader I will ask the owner to donate them as they are useless on their own.
I hope you can repair it though! Especially if you can get the original presets off of them!
I'm looking for those cards@@DonSolaris let me know if they're available pls
@@VultureCulture Just curious, that's your own CS-70m? Was it ok priced when you bought it?
Great video dude! I want one. Haha.
It means a lot coming from you 🙏
Enjoy that 3rd Wave - we can be mutually jealous!
CS80 still King ❤
Still King 👑 but I was shocked at how many improvements the 70M has
One interesting tidbit, Vangelis mostly used one layer of the CS-80 to get all those powerful sounds. Meaning he did not use nor need two defined oscillators. Yamaha able to get the sound of blade runner on 1 oscillator across multiple voices of course. Just incredible
But Vangelis can make an award-winning album with a kazoo... at least when he's alive.
Yeah, it's actually insane to think what he was able to get out of one oscillator for Blade Runner Blues and the like.
He certainly could have played a kazoo and I would have loved it 🤣
@@VultureCulture well, he had a hacked digital echo system too 🙂
I don't know about that, what kind of system?
I bought the 80 new in 1980 for $4400. I got it from across the state line to save on tax. I toured around the country in a cover band with it for 10 years and, amazingly, never had one problem with it. Not even a tuning issue. But, if I could do it all over again , knowing now the differences, it would be the CS-70m. I’ve tried to convince the community of these things/sounds etc. for years but, like you say, if they’re convinced because of a certain narrative, they won’t change their mind. Oh well. Come say come saw.
Pretty incredible to have had no issues with the 80 in all of that time! But yes, the 70M really is something special.
K that sounds good…geez…
It really sounds better than I expected it to..
Interesting how different it sounds from the CS80. Yamaha's R&D surely had a spectacular run in those years.
They really did something special. And yes, the CS70M can sound much more overdriven than the mellower 80, this was with the levels only at 70%
Seems better to me and sounds great! I chose CS-30 when there wasn't a huge difference in price between it and the 80. Think it was the same price as a CS-60 from the same person.
The CS-30 is no doubt the most powerful of the monosynths they made, much more flexible than the voice structure of the 70M! I hope to find one at some point to try out.
@@VultureCulture Definitely try one; I see you have Polivoks and SH-2 so yeah just get a 30. A lot of the larger synths were priced similarly at one point and in actual use/maintenance, I'd take a 30 over an 80 even now.
I hope to! Maybe to replace my Moog Source
@@VultureCulture It's your oyster use it how you want, man. For new production gear that ASol Colossus looks pretty crazy 😛
That it does lol
There is a big issue with those old synths, they're going to be very hard to service in the future because of the rare custom chips inside :/
Luckily there's companies all the time cropping up and remaking those old chips. A synth like the CS70M is actually a lot more resistant to that because it is discreetly wired as opposed to using synth on chip technology of the later 80's.
Yes I hope someone could clone Yamaha chips one day, if not those wonderful synths will be unplayable unfortunately...
It cost me a lot to change just one VCO chip in my CS70m and it's a fragile vintage synth😬@@VultureCulture
Hopefully you didn't pay much more than $80 + someone's time to put it in. They're currently $80 on Syntaur right now
I saw that but they're out of stock since a long time now, you can find NOS ones but for a lot more money...@@VultureCulture
Ahhh I see. Yeah that can get brutal quick.
Incoming
I own both (he boasted). The CS70M has ao lot of stuff on board that should have made it more desirable at the time and for those that do not get the expressive potential it was and is the better choice for most people. 2 separate channel outputs indeed. Much more stable tuning, pitch bend and modulation wheels where becoming the standard, it was fully programmable (even including the great ring mod). There are however also some clear omissions. No velocity sensitivity, no poly aftertouch (mono aftertouch only controlling the second non-programmable LFO), no ribbon, no 5 stage envelope (I do not agree on standard ADSR being better), no separate hi and low pass filters. The VCO designs themselves are however also different. The CS70M has a more general sound, which actually makes it somewhat more versatile in emulating other classic synths. But nothing sings like the CS80. Just because of the quirks. I’m however unaware of the CS70M ring mod only working on one channel. I can’t imagine never having picked up on that. I’d have to check mine again but it could also be yours is not working properly in this respect.
I dont think ADSR is better (although it is easier) than a 5 stage, but it's the ability to truly invert them that makes them more flexible.
I have no doubt that the CS-80 sings better than any synth in the world! 🌎
Also I checked the schematic because I'm crazy like that and it is in fact only on channel 1. Very strange to me.
Thank you for all the information 🙏
Drum sounds ? OK - I take it . . .😀😎✌
Awesome, thank you!
Great video! I dont think they even made 850 CS80s though! Definitely not 2000 or anywhere near it. Hard to find reliable info though!
Yes, I think the number is less than 850 - however because I couldn't get a hard source on that one I left the range open.
And thank you!
Some old guy sold me one in pristine condition 2 years ago and I bought it for $300 bucks
That is insane! They list at about $20k currently.
@@VultureCulture that’s what I said he didn’t know what he had
I made a serious mistake selling mine in the 90s simply because they’re worth so much now but actually found it sadly uninspiring at the time.
I'm surprised! What instruments were inspiring you back then / now?
I sold my Maplin 5600s thinking a polysynth would be a step up but just didn’t gel with it and stopped making music for a long time. Life took over I guess!
Like the RingMod only effecting Chanel 1, you can not get PWM on Chanel 2 of the CS70m
That's not true, I just turned it on now to double-check and you can absolutely modulate Channel 2's PWM.
@@VultureCulture You can change it from 50% to 10% certainly……but can you use the programmable LFO to automate the PWM on CH2?
Great video by the way, you’ve done a man’s job sir.
Yes you can! You can even use ring mod to modulate channel II
@@VultureCulture hmmm…..if that is the case mine was probably faulty. When listening to just CH2 the programmable LFO would not modulate/PWM the square wave.
CH1 yes, you could achieve all sorts of PWM shenanigans but not on CH2.
But then again it could have been a fault on mine.
Still one heck of a sonic synth!
That does sound like maybe an issue on yours, but I absolutely can modulate everything on Channel II.
You know what might be interesting? Comparing the CS 70M to the Arturia CS80 or some other plugins. Because in the start of the channel you were mostly like Plugins often are almost as good as the real stuff. Actually I think the CS80 belongs to those machine where it's the hardest. So I'd be curious but would bet even the 70 blows all Plugins away.
That's a great idea!
Which is the best plugin to shoot it out against? Arturia vs Cherry vs UVI?
@@VultureCulture I can't tell, I only have the Arturia
I have both and don't think they should be compared
Despite they share same ig they dont sound the same, they have veey different capabilities
I'd say cs70m is underestimated because it is overshadowed by its bigger brother, but it is a fantastic instrument
I think comparing them is the natural outcome of how they're named, but I agree with you that the 70M stands out in its own right.
@VultureCulture absolutely, I believe they're both fantastic instruments
I started 2 years ago a detailed video comparing them, but despite it has auto tune, my cs70 needs to be calibrated, I believe I'll do again my video
Cs70m could easily be compared to other polysynths, such as jp8, synthex or oberheims
As you demonstrate in your video, People should not see it as a slim down version of the cs80
@@Michael_Geyre Check your voltages. Perhaps it's out of tune due to failing capacitors.
It's currently being fully restored, so i'll manage to complete that damn video :) @@izzzzzz6
How much would this cost?I'm already ducking..I have the Roland HS60...........got it for $250 and now it goes for over $1000
Right now the cheapest one on Reverb is listed at 16k.
The HS60 is an awesome synth and $250 is dead cheap!
A synth for $16k???? Imagine me that out of my mind unless using it brings me 1,000,000 dollars/track..
Agreed, no synthesizer is worth that much.
@@VultureCulture Not only that ,I am sure you know that at any given time, about 85% of them do the same thing if you work at it..
Absolutely!
uv77mc85
0 seconds ago
Nice synth. Problem with these vintage synths is they scare me because they get so hot that i just know they are gonna go wrong at some time. Even a polysix can cost hundreds in repairs if you do it yourself. I just sold mine after spending quite a lot on it
I was gonna buy a CS70 from Japan a couple years ago until i saw how much the shipping was. It is so heavy that the quote i got was nearly as much as the synth
You want to make sure you get them serviced from a reputable source. After that though, they're actually very reliable and built to be fixable unlike modern synths. They really built this stuff to last.
But I feel your pain on the Polysix, we've all had a vintage synth we ended up sinking way too much money into.
kawai R50 I LOVE IT
Actually what you're hearing in the track are my samples of the Kawai R-50 III, in case that interests you: VultureCulture.live
Lol costs more then my car .. i guess I'll wait till I'm 80 yrs old and behringer drops a 7 key version
That CS mini should be coming out soon lol
I guess this will be a 0 second video 🤣
Hahahahahahaha you'd be surprised 😜
The 70M is a lot better than the 80, it's more organic and acoustic. Is the CS80 great? Sure! Overrated? Yes, and a nightmare to maintenance. The 70M is a pain too but not NEAR as fussy than the 80. You really demonstrated how powerful and expressive this beautiful beast is, well done! It will outlive the 80s by decades, no doubt about it. May your 70M live long and stay well for years.
Thank you very much and I'm glad you enjoyed the video?
Any other underrated synths you think I should try out?
Just about all the CS models is very rare today. Even I can’t repair them myself I would love to find one, but I honestly think most of them have succombed to time or rust, dust and decay. I just remember from my youth, the keyboard guy from the “Fame” series used one of the smaller models, and it sounded awsome. I forget the model names, but remember I dreamed of getting the 2 manual organ/synth model instead of the C55N Electone we had at my parents, wich I started dragging around together with a Yamaha TM-5 Electronic leslie cab.
the CS70 is a pretty awesome machine, I would certainly prefer it over the CS80 (as a practical studio machine) and I would def not miss the CS80's near 200 pound weight.
I cannot even imagine how heavy an 80 is! And yeah - as much as I'd love, if price wasn't a problem, to have the Blade Runner machine in the studio, there's a bunch of things the 70M can do I don't want to live without now.
VC- I dont think I caught it, but is that a 100v machine?
The CS70M has a switchable voltage between 100v and 120v so you don't need a step-down converter. I would have mentioned it in this video but the 80 had the same feature I believe.
ah... A++++ thoguthfullness on the part of Yamaha on that! I wish they would have continued that practice with their instruments!@@VultureCulture
Seriously! That should be a feature on every synth!
To me the CS-70m always sounded way better than the 80.
It really sounds out of this world good. I don't know if I could lose the stereo nature and increased modulation capacity.
@@VultureCulture congratulations! It sounds like a polyphonic CS-15...
I played a CS-80 on various occasions, not impressed at all. Of course Vangelis work with it is amazing, but rely too much on reverb. A dry CS-80 is not that great.
Yes, the real star of the Blade Runner soundtrack is the Lexicon 224.
@@juno6 I think it's because if people is just a tad to young to have experienced how you worked with recording back in the 70's, you expect a big sound right out of the box if your mainly a late 80's and up person. Everything was mono back then and you recorded the synth's multiple times to stack sounds to get the finnished sound you hear on the records. Even the DX-7 which is one of the most sold synths ever, sounds incredibly boring if you just plug it directly into an amp. It first shines when you stack them up and/or add some effects to it. just a decent BBD chorus helps imensely
@@mrdali67 it could be the case with some people, not mine. I've well over 100 synths, mostly vintage, I know how they work and how they sound. I've never played a CS-70M but from demos I've heard, specially this by Culture Culture which is the best by far, I'm pretty sure the raw sound of the 70 is way more interesting than the 80 (which I did play several times). That's *MY* opinion, based on *my* taste and years of experience. Nobody have to agree.
20 GRAND and maintenance problems no thanks. No matter how good it sounds it's not worth the headache. Besides you can probably get the same sounds from most of the new analog synths made today. Great video though thanks.
No synthesizer is worth 20 grand. And I totally agree, I think my Korg Prologue's Blade Runner patch actually gets closer to the original CS-80 sound than the CS70M. And don't get me started with how good the plug-ins sound!
Um I've got the CS80V vst in os9 so it wins hands down.
The VST just smokes the hardware?
64 pounds? Well thats still less than Michael Jackson.
hahahahaha
OMG 😭
Good cry or bad cry?
Sample
Sample?
Poly aftertouch tho....And the ribbon, I also wish the sequencer was step, this one is kinda useless. and my MAIN problem with my beloved CS70M....the f*ck*ng UNISON, who wants a polyphonic unison?
WOW! I DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE CV ONLY SEQ, THANK YOU!!!!!
I was just about to say you can do Polyphonic step sequencing 🤣
And poly unison is great! It's what makes the Thriller sound on the Jupiter 8!
But of course if possible we'd all want polyphonic aftertouch and a ribbon controller.
@@VultureCulture honestly I'd chose monophonic Unison over the polyphonic aftertouch AND the ribbon. Polyphonic unison can be cool but if you wanna play cool monophonic basslines or leads you really need monophony.
@schoovaertssimon7904 I hadn't really considered that - probably just because of my playing style being pretty terrible I've never really used monophonic unison the way you're describing
The volume drop when the Chorus is on is also a (small) problem
Never understood why the 70 feature set didn't all port over to the 80?..... as you are eloquently demo'ing 🙃
The 70M was released after - so it's an "update" although a lot was removed too (poly at, ribbon controller etc etc)
@VultureCulture True, was the immediate follow up but guess the 'improvements' balanced with $ of removing the Poly AT keybed for one.....I guess was as simple as the 80 design brief at that time was to create the most technically advance analogue synth withinYAM, no cash ceiling, with plan to dilute down for wider audience, though 70M still a chunk of cash back then.
Yeah it was about 1/2 the price of an 80 at launch and they quickly cut the price back even further due to low sales. Considering all the improvements I think they didn't lose too much in order to slash the price in half.
@@theaudioeng Look at the Mother of them all .. the GX-1, which was the test bed of the CS-80. It had the price tag of HOUSE, several times what the CS-80 cost. It was kinda Show Off of what the electronic revolution in Japan could achieve. No one makes these kinda instruments anymore that is totally out of the reach for mere mortals. Comming from a childhood of learning to play the Organ, it was totally crazy how good the analog circuits of the GX-1 was to imitate especially woodwind instruments and string ensembles. It's just way more impressive to see how far they could get with just simple tone generators and filters in about a decade or 2 than following the last 4 decades of sampling developement which is kinda boring compared. It's just a question of amount of memory you have today and how good you can code a software library and none other than professional musicians, composers etc. is able to hear if you used software or a real Orchestra for a recording if it's wellmade.
But Instruments like the CS-80 was never made for the "average" Joe. Just see how few there were ever made.
I understand this is some sort of clickbait and that you've never actually used a cs80 (which you don't disclose in the video.) I have both - acquired them when no one cared about analog synths. The cs80 is so substantially better than cs70m in just about every single way (sure cs70m is way lighter - but still a boat anchor; and cheaper - as it should be!). But they are not even in the same galaxy. cs70m is...a janky cold wheezy steppy mess. cs80 is a masterpiece synthesizer. What is even happening here? Also much incorrect in the features dept: there is indeed a variable sustain slider on the cs80, VCF slider is not redundant, it's there to mix into the VCA and balance the sine...etc...etc.
You'll notice I never said the CS70M *is* better than a CS-80 (which is subjective and not my opinion) but just listed all the features / improvements of the CS70M over the CS-80, and then all the negatives for balance and to let the viewer make up their own mind.
Thank you for letting me know about the variable sustain slider on the CS-80, I'll add that to the corrections in the description of the video.
I appreciate your comment
Jeez call the fun police on this guy. Playing synthesisers is meant to be a joyous and fun activity. I feel bad for your CS80 and CS70m having to live with you. I’ve played on both extensively and they’re *very* different experiences, to the point where if offered either, I’d likely take the CS70m - it seems to do magical things that never happened on the CS80.
I think they're both incredible (goes without saying, doesn't it?) and I appreciate what you're saying. I made this video to highlight a lesser known synthesizer hoping to show it off to a wider audience 🙏
@@VultureCulturethe first line of the video you said ‘the first way the CS70M is BETTER than the CS80’………
Exactly! The first *way* the CS70M is objectively better is the ability to run the oscillators out stereo or mono! That is a feature that is objectively better! That doesn't mean the entirety of the synth is better - I go through every negative of the CS70M in this video too!
You didn't buy these did you?
Only the CS70M. I will never be able to afford a CS-80 lol.
Sounds amazing but it doesnt sound like a cs-80 to my ears. So i get that it has different and in some cases more options The opinion cs-70m is better than the CS-80 is an odd stance to take. Clearly you are an expert here but your review although awesome is so heavily weighted towards the CS-70m. Sentences like "cs-80 had a dinky split knob" Wish it was a balanced review like the strengths of each. The poly after touch of cs-80 and dual 8 voice vs a 6 voice is not emphasized among a dozen other things. I do not think you can get that Vangellis sound out of the CS-70m not that you need to of course. The Cs-70 is in the cs-30/cs-40 family which is not the same sound as cs-50/cs-60/cs-80 family. I think its great but different
You'll notice I never say the 70M *is* better than the 80, simply list the differences that I think are better, and cover the negative differences as well. I still think the CS-80 is the king of polysynths.
But that pitch knob is dinky! 🤣
I do spend almost half the runtime of the video talking about the negatives (from 26 minutes onward). I think I hit the 70M pretty hard, especially when it comes to the lack of velocity, weird stereo things and lack of after touch brilliance. I talk about the lack of poly-aftertouch, and demo how the 70M's is mono, and cover how the 70M is dual 6 voice instead of dual 8 voice.
I think the sound differences between the original CS, black-face and M-series synths is overblown. Of course they all sound unique but they're made of the same components.
You're right to point out that I am biased or slanted towards the CS70M. The goal of this video was to show what an incredible synth it is in its own right, and how favorably it's features compare to the 80, which so many take as the final word in analog polysynths prima facie. I think RUclips has enough videos fawning over the CS-80.
I appreciate your well thought-out comment 🙏
@@VultureCulture thank you for that wonderful response, to my ears I can hear the sound difference, but then again, I don't have them right in front of me, so what do I know? Your video is professional, as well as your response. Thank you for providing the community with a wondeful comparison. I truly believe your knowledge outweighs mine, the sound is just a subjective thing I hear.
I think you're right to notice a tonal difference, and many have pointed out the CS-80 has a more mellow, beautiful timbre. The 70M is very pushed, almost distorted-sounding, and that's with the VCA's pulled back to 70% in the video. You can actually drive them even harder than that, which is cool, but takes you further away from that Vangelis sound.
Oh yes stereo is better.
Pretty big difference
Somehow gayer than Mr Ballen character
I take that as a compliment 🤣
Fantastic Synth but sorry sweetheart the CS80 was a different beast.
You'll notice I didn't say the CS70M *is* better than the CS-80 (that's subjective.) I still think the 80 is the king of polysynths, although there's some features of the 70M I'd miss (stereo oscillators, better envelopes, ring mod to filter FM). My goal for this video was really to make the case that this is such an overlooked synth because it's not its sibling, but when you compare it to the other legendary synths of around the same time (Jupiter 8, Prophet 5, OB-X etc etc) I think it has a lot those synths don't have.
@@VultureCulture The ''sorry sweetheart'' was actually a general response to the CS80 ''haters'' (basically because they can't buy it etc etc.)And yes CS70M and all of the CS models rule, maybe except the CS-01 :P
I'd love to try a CS-01 out and see how it compares to the 70M.
Imagine if they singularly just carried the Poly AT keybed in to the 70M, then I'd expect everyone here would be lamenting about the 70M as being the 'best' poly synth ever.... (did Vangelis put the icing on the cake as it were for the 80 though prior?.....).
If the 70M had poly at it probably would be considered the best version.