Another interesting video, but can I just point out, again, that the sound is poor. The voice sounds like you're underwater and the music is too loud, making it hard to get your meaning at several points. I understand that better microphones cost money, but the sound balance between speech and music is surely fixable in the edit?
I've always thought that Captain Pike's quarters looked like they were meant to be just below the bridge. But there are also lots of clues in the first pilot episode that suggest the Enterprise was originally meant to be much smaller than they finally decided. The taller bridge dome, the 203 crew count, the captain's quarters appearing to fill the height of the B/C superstructure, and the added rows of windows for the second pilot, all suggest a ship of about 150m length and only 10 decks. Would love to see a video on that!
Even in its final form I think the scale is off. The problem is the shuttlecraft. It throws everything off. First of all, the interior set is larger than the exterior prop. So, that begs the question, what is the actual length of a real TOS shuttlecraft? Not the prop but the in-world ship itself. Because I have a theory that Franz Joseph based the size of the hanger deck on the known size of the prop and built everything up from that. But if the shuttlecraft is actually larger than the prop we see on TV then we have to assume that the entire scale of the Enterprise is off by a bit and the ship is actually larger than we think it is. If you look at cross sections of the TOS Enterprise you will notice the hanger deck really crowds the engineering section and even, in some renderings, invades where the engine pylons enter the secondary hull, defying spatial logic. This is because the ship is rendered too small.
@@Lethgar_Smith Plus the crew complement is small for the size of the ship. A typical aircraft carrier has several thousand people. One would think a ship the size of a Constitution Class could carry far more than a few hundred personnel.
@@keirfarnum6811 But a Carrier has massive amounts of birthings as sleeping space. Starfleet vessels are designed to carry their crew comfortably for multi year deployments instead of the six to eighteen month deployments carriers have taken on. Everyone on a starship for the most part has their own quarters, barring Nicholas Meyers desire to make things more utilitarian and Lower Decks using crew bunks to emphasize that these guys are the bottom of the ladder. So everyone gets a state room and the ship has numerous laboratories and cargo bays.
@@3Rayfire I think the quarter size has always been misrepresented. In ST:VI UC we see they have coffin racks for the lower enlisted. The love boat sized quarters for general crew always rubbed me wrong. It might be a 5 year mission but they aren’t away from port longer than some current naval vessels who can be away for 9 months at a whack. Given a back of the envelope comparison I’d say enterprise needed a crew of 2,000 to 2,500 including the security and air wing. Include the diplomats, colonists, space station crew rotation who would also be hitching a ride and you have 2,500 to 3,000 people running around. Just the maintenance and life support sections would need several hundred people, with all the engineering spaces that needed manned it’s another couple hundred for three shifts, plus replacements and trainees. Probably hundred people just in the phasers & photon torpedo sections. Remember Kirk started out his career as a phaser bank gunner.
Franz Joseph designs did a good job back in 1973. But we know it was the best he could do based on the resources he had. It doesn’t accurately correspond to the large prop. As your channel has pointed out, many things don’t jibe. Especially the oversized hangar bay, and the shortened engine nacelles. 50+ years later, we know so much more about this iconic vehicle.
I use to have the original set of those plans in the mid 70’s as a teenager. I think my parents bought them for me. They came in a vinyl case and each plan folded out. I use to poor over those plans for hours. Eventually sold the set which I occasionally regret.
I still have my blueprints and Technical Manual - and it has plenty of errors in it. it gets the scale and details of phasers and communicators all wrong.
@Terminus_El_Camino I still have mine as well. I used to imagine myself as a crew member walking throughout the ship, having adventures. It was something to do before other media existed.
If people can have their own truths, I can have my own canon, and I think Franz Joseph’s work is canon. I think he deserves a lot of credit trying to reconcile the mixed information from a TV series that wasn’t always consistent.
If you look at why Roddenberry "decanonized" Franz Joseph's work (Roddenberry had originally given it his blessing and had said as far as he was concerned, it was canon) basically Roddenberry had grown petty and became a control freak in his later years, especially around the time they were preparing to start shooting TNG. He grew jealous of anything Trek related that he didn't have oversight over. You should read up on a lot of his original ideas for TNG, which would've absolutely made the show unfilmable.
@@Thor13332Paramount sidelined him and brought in Nicholas Meyer because he went $20 million over budget on TMP. His budget was $25 M and he spent $45 M. For TWOK, they told Meyer his budget was $10M. He had a reputation for keeping productions on-budget and told Paramount “I can make you 5 movies for that!” Meanwhile Roddenberry was in the background, fuming that he’d been cut out.
In the original pilot, Captain Pike's quarters have a curved wall shape and a small window suggesting they are in the structure immediately below the bridge, which would make more sense than the ones seen for Kirk all the way down on deck five.
I toured an aircraft carrier a few years ago, and the captains orders are right next to the bridge. Literally, exit the bridge and there’s the captains door on your left hand. I’m not sure if that was his main quarter, or if that the same purpose as Picard ready room. We don’t see a ready room or a bridge adjacent office on Kirk’s Enterprise. That it definitely feels like an oversight by the writers and show runners.
@@tomwilson2112I toured the Battleship Wisconsin - sister ship to the Missouri. Captain’s quarters were very close to the bridge, along with a very impressive meeting room, and I seem to remember reading he based the design on navy ships. While Enterprise was not a battleship, dreadnought, etc, she was often quite alone out there. It would make sense if the Captain’s Quarters were just a few steps away - the Captain couldn’t get stuck in a turbolift during an emergency. Same reason we always ran the stairs going to a code - you’re of no use to anyone, trapped in a malfunctioning elevator.
@@tomwilson2112 I saw that on the USS Lexington, they had a duty cabin in the conning tower and a larger stateroom lower in the ship, so in battle times they were sleeping closer to the command area.
Not as dangerous as having the very command bridge at the most superficial point on the ship that could be easily destroyed by a glancing shot in battle. That’s a bad design choice.
@@Terminus_El_Camino it seems many actual naval ships today still have prominent bridges that could be replaced by one buried in the ship supplied with sensor data
I prefer the idea that there was a more equipped communications center than just the main console on the bridge and a combat information center as well that had more dedicated work areas than just what was on the main bridge located on deck two and three.
I am going to look at it from the point of view of a former military engineer , someone sho has had to frequently cross train in situations that shifted from civil engineering to tactical engineering. Now lets take that dual philosophy of the Seabees and Army Corp of engineers and apply it to an organization with a primary mission statement of scientific exploration and a secondary mission statement of defense . Your fleet is going to have a massive amount pure science vessels like the oberth and miranda class that are primary scientific vessel …. You will also have a select few vessel that will be fully tactical …. These are going to be your dreadnoughts, various scout vessels, and a small number or constitutional classes that are primarily design and staffed by a tactical crew ….. your dreadnoughts are going to spend most of their time discreetly docked at various starbases with only a small skeleton crew on permanent assignment . Your scouts will hop from station to stations, with the majority of its crew on temporary assignment …. Which leads us to the first line Constitutional class …… There will be a few laid out as you speak. These vessels will spend most of their time as flag ships for high end admirals , escorting or transporting the Federation secretary general , or on training missions. As the Constitution is phased out in favor of the Excelsior class a few of these vessels will become training vessel under the command of starfleet academy. HOWEVER at this point the Enterprise has not entered that phase of its service …. As such the enterprise will be configured to scientific exploration, BUT with the ability to quickly convert to tactical. In that way the stations closest to the bridge will be the scientific labs BUT must still be ready to convert to tactical …
@@MrSheckstr I’d think they would still need a central control room to collect and collate the information sent to the command bridge. Even the original enterprise had half a dozen engineering rooms spread between saucer & secondary. It would seem logical to have a Central Information Center under the bridge. Given the saucer & Secondary were meant to be separable you’d need some space to bring all those systems together. The 8 phaser turrets plus photon torpedos would need coordination in case of battle as well. Just my thoughts but with the Klingon situation they’d be as ready as the sailing ships if old to swing into battle stance. Even if often inactive wouldn’t those spaces be manned?
I enjoy these videos because as a kid I would pour over the blueprints and wonder how the deck arrangements would work. I was often left a little puzzled so it's nice to see it realized in 3D and confirm I wasn't the only one.
I like that explanation. If we accept that bridge modules can be swapped out, why not accept that they redid a few decks below after ToS? Franz Joseph’s work deserves to remain at least semi canon 👍
I dunno if I can trust those 60's blueprints. The sets portray the ship to be much smaller than the 'canon' drawings and measurements. I suspect the entire bridge and some essential systems is the ENTIRE upper saucer section. One deck down, the widest part of the saucer section are living quarters for 180-200 crew if they hotbunk. A 6 man sick bay and 1 maybe 2 transporter rooms squeezed in there somehow. The lower side of the saucer (deck 3) houses ship's main computer and lower sensor systems.
Directly under the bridge should be the Ships CIC where all the work is done. Below that is the kitchen for The captain’s mess to the rear and to the front the “10 forward “ officers lounge
@@venomgeekmedia9886 a very multi-purposed area. Good to help freshen the ships air and water as well as serve as relaxation space for crew and the space station crews they visited. Enterprise and sister ships served as the R&R for those crews stuck in tiny stations for several years.
@@chrissmith7669 yeah i think the Franz Joseph Blueprints show it taking up a whole deck on the original. then on the galaxy class there should probably be several.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 although likely only set dressing we saw in ST V there were planters in the forward lounge and in ST:TMP there were a bunch on the rec deck when it was configured as food court “Biergarten “ that would have improved air quality as well as the large one shown in the lower secondary hull during the reveal shots in I & II with jogging trail, stream and bushes/trees. I don’t recall any in the Formel dining room below the VIP shuttle dock but it would make sense
Those 3D cutaways of the bridge and superstructure look amazing, lit or not 😊 I'm glad you pointed out that the structure and details of the "teardrop" are different on the FJ plans to the filming model. The shape of the bridge is different too, so it allows for significant wiggle room on what those deck plans teen in TMP truly are - perhaps some other starship?😉 Oh, and the secondary door on TAS was in a different location too - it actually replaced the entire short console to the left of the viewscreen!
Well, the "original" 1701 had already lost her new 'starship smell' by the time she made onto the silver screen. Maybe when new, the high energy lab was indeed in that location, but through experience, got moved elsewhere. Same for ALL the other inconsistencies. Experience through time moved them.
"[administration of/for] high energt lab[oratory]" ? Logically(?) having a single fixed place for information/control nearby in the event of any active experiements (or _active_ samples) interfacing with the ship's operations (or an emergency), but still insulated from the actual laboratory/storage space(s) which may be allocated as needed (by the plot) could be beneficial.
Excellent video! The cutaways of the bridge and lower decks gives a sense of scale, placement and orientation otherwise hidden. It would be wild if someone actually did an Enterprise flyby with all the hull-adjacent, "outer" decks revealed like this, with characters seated at their stations, walking, etc. Thanks for using your extensive talents to let us see The Big E in a new and exciting light!
I can see a strong argument for putting essential systems low enough down that a serious phaser or Torpedo shot that takes out the bridge leaves those intact.
I have big questions about the structure everywhere, not just under the bridge. There just isn’t enough “steel” on Trek ships, they have no visible skeletons. It’s as if the various interior walls were all load-bearing structures. The ships appear to be built like they’re TV sets! 😄 Also the deck-to-deck heights are about half of what they’d actually need to be. Every even-numbered deck would need to be a network of Jefferies tubes and service tunnels, full of equipment and services distribution serving the deck above.
Boy, the poor Enterprise from TOS! It is so small compared to the Enterprise D and other, later starships. I note that the Enterprise in "Strange New Worlds" does seem substantially larger than this. is that the case? (Like in the later ST movies, where the Enterprise is just enormous)
SNW uses an Enterprise model scaled to around 440 meters, so a lot larger than the TOS size, but nowhere near the 720 meter monstrosity that is the Kelvin Connie
I, too, used to have those plans when I was a kid. I was happy to see them appear in the movie. But given the difference between what the plans showed & what would be more practical, perhaps we can look at the Franz Joseph plans as the original Constitution plans whereas the Enterprise of TOS was Connie Block II or Block III, refits from the original. Thoughts?
If I was designing the thing, decks 2 and 3 would have rooms directly supporting bridge operations; things like astrometrics, computer support, captain's office, photon control, a small galley with a synthesizer for coffee and small protein items, and a couple of heads.
One could also speculate that the blueprints are from an earlier layout that was drawn up while the Constitution Class was being designed as there are archives full of ship designs/basic layouts which would eventually be built but to a different layout. Ex: The North Carolina Class battleships. Originally they were ordered with 14in guns but when the treaty system fell apart, they were built, and equipped with 16in guns.
In a hospital, a red line on the floor means only certain people are allowed to pass. They're usually in the corridor leading to operating rooms and other critical areas. I wonder if that red line at 0:36 has a similar purpose.
From memory, in TOS the room doors had number plates near to them. I think Kirk's was 3C xxx (can't remember the xxx). I took the 3 to mean deck number.
If you look at warships, you’d expect a restroom (toilet if youre british), a place to grab a coffee/snack and the captains day cabin (with space for staff and a waiting area fir crew). The problem with the Star Trek ships is they done have a CIC where the weapons and sensors would be analysed by a team of people supported by AI. The Captain may fight the ship from the Bridge for manoeuvring, but then the first officer should run the CIC. ,
There's no need for laboratories on deck 2 and 3. In fact, that's where the briefing room should be - in close proximity to the bridge. eg. On the refit, the officers lounge is there at the back. Having maintenance corridors behind the bridge also solves the turbo lift issue, as there would be room for a turbo lift to go the the angled entrance and the round "turbo lift" module at the rear of the bridge could be the top of the shaft, or as Mr Trek speculates, a dedicated bridge turbo lift storage bay.
I seem to remember one episode in which Spock and guest take an infamously long turbo lift trip to Deck 2 (B?). It would appear that this deck was reserved for guests (quarters, lounge, etc).
Those curved rooms with no headroom near the edge have long bugged me. A similar problem applies with the rooms beneath, but with a funny floor that curves up at the edge. I hope the bowling alley isn't there.
Having labs and such makes sense to me - you don't want all that on the bridge as that could be disruptive but you do want it close incase it is needed so having them on decks 2 and 3 are a good idea. I think having the briefing room on 2 would have made sense - the idea of having it on a deck surrounded by junior officer's quarters seems like an odd one to me. I could see it being more of a "public" meeting room so a place where you bring diplomats, etc and then having it on 4 make sense since it is away from ship operations, etc incase there are issues and then you have a smaller one on deck 2 that the crew uses so they are close to the bridge. But that's just me.
Wires and conduit, mostly. The whole layout of the ENTERPRISE is ludicrous. There is no reason for a vital control center of the ship to be in such an exposed position. In a starship, which depends on sensors for its interface with the outside world, the 'bridge' would be where the CIC is in a modern warship, inside a lot of protective steel.
It would seem an odd choice to put laboratories there on deck 3 where it looks like they indulged in enough windows that you'd think they'd put more common spaces there where, say, more of the crew might get a nice view on their coffee break or while on standby I if the ship happens to be near anything to see.
Interesting to see that deck 2 and deck 3 were home to science labs. I was thinking that the science labs would be located further down, maybe located in the secondary hull.
The bridge can be left, right, up, down or even facing the opposite direction. It does not matter considering they could see outside the ship on the view screen. JJ Abrams Trek made the view screen a window. Funny how the sun can shine in and no one other than the Captain can command to "polarize the view screen"
Wow, never been so early to the party. I had the original blueprints publication as a teen. It made perfect sense to me and mostly still does. The Enterprise is not a warship. It's an explorer. Auxiliary control makes sense as a backup to the bridge for emergencies. It's in a protected area. The bridge isn't always the primary control center, it's merely the highest manned station on a ship's superstructure. In a few episodes, bridge control was locked out from auxiliary control, but I don't recall the reverse ever happening. Perhaps the bridge actually IS a secondary control center? Could it be that customary word usage and drift reversed the actual names vs. functions? Maybe Captains prefer the bridge for the better layout. The service corridor around the bridge actually solves the offset bridge main turbolift issue nicely as well. As for the extra door, I'll go along with easier access to a toilet as well as staircase being a great advantage. Just don't be leaning on the batteries while you wait your turn. Lowest bidder contractors can play hell with the rack construction.
On thing the Star Trek Technical Manual showed was something never seen on the showed was a bathroom for the bridge. It was a much better than James Doohan’s suggestion of using phasers 🤣
I appreciate how you compared the Enterprise bridge to that of a sea-going vessel. On that line, where do you suppose are all the lifeboats? Do you believe TOS Enterprise was equipped with them? The predecessor NX was shown to have them as was the Refit. Are we to assume the only options to abandon ship were shuttles, detaching the saucer or emergency transporters? I think this might be a worthy topic of a video. Thanks for a fun analysis of the sub bridge decks. There are many fun and interesting challenges or downright conflicts that present themselves in the Enterprise model as you have previously discussed. Thanks again. A Star Trek: The Original Series inspired life boat: ruclips.net/video/pExECwfiHkw/видео.htmlsi=Sdx6s8f-lo6aPzbt
Interestly, later interations of the ENTERPRISE had her main computer core that started on deck 2 and would extend down through the saucer section connect with the planetary sensors located in the ventral sensor dome...TOS didn't do thst.
The second door on bridge doesn’t bother me. It makes sense to have another egress if one gets disabled and for utility access reasons. Plus, this video inadvertently brings up the scale conundrum of Trek ships probably not being large enough. Obviously there’s Jeffries tubes and other maintenance paths, but allowing enough space to be available for turbo lifts and similar equipment to properly operate is questionable when looking at schematics and vessel structures. Yeah it’s fiction and suspension of belief is in play but it’s still a mystery that many of us try to grasp. That’s why I think when looking at windows and shuttle craft those are fairly quantifiable items that can be used for scale in reference when measured by the height of an average person.
Having the Bridge on the very top was itself ridiculous. Why not just paint "shoot here!"? Of course, having the Captain and First Officer both in the same place also ssems reckless. Why not put the Bridge on Deck, say, six in the forward section, where the Captain is in red alert, while the XO goes to an Auxiliary Bridge on, say, the aft portion of deck nine? Its not like the bridge has actual windows requiring it to be near the outer hull.
Very interesting information, I always love this kind of stuff, however, the background music is to loud. Am I gonna listen to the music or to the natation?
this video has the kind of audio that young people can hear clearly but old people have a hard time with audio is fine for me by the way, maybe slightly muffled but your voice is clear
My biggest question for this and all space adventures of any generation is where do they keep the artificial gravity machine? No one seems to question that one! They only ever land on a planet with the same gravity as earth and if someone can explain to me how they can project a hologram onto nothing I will stand back in amazement!
Clearly Frank didn't understand what he was working on, kinda like I was doing the same kind of sketches during my teenage years just for the lolz. So I don't consider it canon, especially since we barely see it on screen. The logic of ship building doesn't apply. What we should have according to sets and other Starfleet vessels on decks two and three: briefing room, support systems and one officer ready room, and eventually a mess but the superstructure seems too small for that and it could be forward of the Saucer section on deck four or five. No labs, no wide rooms without any structure since all electrical power and computer supply cables and circuitry is going through the center of the saucer structure. As for fhe briefing room, it could also be around the same vertical structure, hence its supports and the diameter they are protraying but on deck 5 (the corridor on which it is hooked si so generic that it could be anywhere on the ship anyway. The main problem is that to make everything fit together, sets and blueprints should have been done accordingly and the sad truth is that it's NEVER done properly. I see you ST DISCOVERY with those huge voids for turbolifts in the middle of nowhere like it's in another dimension or something...
Sadly these days ( maybe always ) Star Trek Canon is about as firm as overcooked pasta....Sadly most writers for all series ( movies, tv, games, etc ) would rather put new stuff in that they think is great and fantastic without bothering to see if it even remotely fits what was established before, rather than making their new ideas fit with already established lore. This is especially true in most sci-fi series anymore, since apparently Hollywood can't envision any sort of future setting that isn't grim dark, or just otherwise horrible, and even setting like Star Trek that were supposed to be bright and uplifting and humanities better angels have triumphed over our darker devils is subject to this now.
Do we know V'ger is accessing Enterprise deck plans in that scene? Could be another starship. The bridge dome doesn't look right for a Constitution. Also, I'd love to see plans that justify the shape of the A-C decks. Why have the bulge if it just has more generic rooms in it? Why not make the whole thing a detatchable ship/ escape vessel for the essential vessel control staff?
This could have been an interesting video, but I couldn't hear or understand anything that was being said due to the muffled voice and the loud background sounds.
Am I the only one that finds the narration audio really muffled and hard to discern?
The sound is not balanced.😢
I thought exactly the same thing.
Yeah, not the first time. All this skill with cgi, but falls down just speaking into a microphone😂
Nope - me too.
Agreed. Music is too loud or the narration is too quiet. Whichever you prefer
Audio is messed up on this upload.
The music is too loud making the narration muffled.
So hard to hear him narrate
sounds like he's talking into the wrong end of the mic
@@Michael_F_F the narration is just muffled, nothing to do with the music
Another interesting video, but can I just point out, again, that the sound is poor. The voice sounds like you're underwater and the music is too loud, making it hard to get your meaning at several points. I understand that better microphones cost money, but the sound balance between speech and music is surely fixable in the edit?
The sound quality needs to be fixed as it's hard to hear over background noise.
Indeed. And the high pitch horn quality of that background noise does not help.
The last time i was early Captain April was still in command
And still white?
I've always thought that Captain Pike's quarters looked like they were meant to be just below the bridge. But there are also lots of clues in the first pilot episode that suggest the Enterprise was originally meant to be much smaller than they finally decided. The taller bridge dome, the 203 crew count, the captain's quarters appearing to fill the height of the B/C superstructure, and the added rows of windows for the second pilot, all suggest a ship of about 150m length and only 10 decks. Would love to see a video on that!
Even in its final form I think the scale is off. The problem is the shuttlecraft. It throws everything off. First of all, the interior set is larger than the exterior prop. So, that begs the question, what is the actual length of a real TOS shuttlecraft? Not the prop but the in-world ship itself. Because I have a theory that Franz Joseph based the size of the hanger deck on the known size of the prop and built everything up from that. But if the shuttlecraft is actually larger than the prop we see on TV then we have to assume that the entire scale of the Enterprise is off by a bit and the ship is actually larger than we think it is. If you look at cross sections of the TOS Enterprise you will notice the hanger deck really crowds the engineering section and even, in some renderings, invades where the engine pylons enter the secondary hull, defying spatial logic. This is because the ship is rendered too small.
@@Lethgar_Smith
Plus the crew complement is small for the size of the ship. A typical aircraft carrier has several thousand people. One would think a ship the size of a Constitution Class could carry far more than a few hundred personnel.
@@keirfarnum6811 But a Carrier has massive amounts of birthings as sleeping space. Starfleet vessels are designed to carry their crew comfortably for multi year deployments instead of the six to eighteen month deployments carriers have taken on. Everyone on a starship for the most part has their own quarters, barring Nicholas Meyers desire to make things more utilitarian and Lower Decks using crew bunks to emphasize that these guys are the bottom of the ladder. So everyone gets a state room and the ship has numerous laboratories and cargo bays.
@@3Rayfire I think the quarter size has always been misrepresented. In ST:VI UC we see they have coffin racks for the lower enlisted. The love boat sized quarters for general crew always rubbed me wrong. It might be a 5 year mission but they aren’t away from port longer than some current naval vessels who can be away for 9 months at a whack. Given a back of the envelope comparison I’d say enterprise needed a crew of 2,000 to 2,500 including the security and air wing. Include the diplomats, colonists, space station crew rotation who would also be hitching a ride and you have 2,500 to 3,000 people running around. Just the maintenance and life support sections would need several hundred people, with all the engineering spaces that needed manned it’s another couple hundred for three shifts, plus replacements and trainees. Probably hundred people just in the phasers & photon torpedo sections. Remember Kirk started out his career as a phaser bank gunner.
That's where the replacement control panels made of explodium were stored.
Troubled water, naturally.
Ha!
Franz Joseph designs did a good job back in 1973. But we know it was the best he could do based on the resources he had. It doesn’t accurately correspond to the large prop. As your channel has pointed out, many things don’t jibe. Especially the oversized hangar bay, and the shortened engine nacelles. 50+ years later, we know so much more about this iconic vehicle.
Clearly should have been the bowling alley.
Seriously though its like they made the ship in a certain shape then tried to cram everything into it.
That is pretty much exactly what happened.
I use to have the original set of those plans in the mid 70’s as a teenager. I think my parents bought them for me. They came in a vinyl case and each plan folded out. I use to poor over those plans for hours. Eventually sold the set which I occasionally regret.
Cygnus has them to enjoy. I wish I still had mine
I still have my blueprints and Technical Manual - and it has plenty of errors in it. it gets the scale and details of phasers and communicators all wrong.
@Terminus_El_Camino I still have mine as well. I used to imagine myself as a crew member walking throughout the ship, having adventures. It was something to do before other media existed.
What was under the bridge? Why Trolls of course!
Hey, in the troll world that bridge is a very well sought out location!
If people can have their own truths, I can have my own canon, and I think Franz Joseph’s work is canon. I think he deserves a lot of credit trying to reconcile the mixed information from a TV series that wasn’t always consistent.
If you look at why Roddenberry "decanonized" Franz Joseph's work (Roddenberry had originally given it his blessing and had said as far as he was concerned, it was canon) basically Roddenberry had grown petty and became a control freak in his later years, especially around the time they were preparing to start shooting TNG. He grew jealous of anything Trek related that he didn't have oversight over. You should read up on a lot of his original ideas for TNG, which would've absolutely made the show unfilmable.
@IntergalacticDustBunny I agree 100%. I've read that he tried to spoil the plot of Star Trek ii because paramount had basically fired him.
Discovery is not canon
@@IntergalacticDustBunnyYup. That’s why the FASA RPG lost its license when TNG came out.
@@Thor13332Paramount sidelined him and brought in Nicholas Meyer because he went $20 million over budget on TMP. His budget was $25 M and he spent $45 M.
For TWOK, they told Meyer his budget was $10M. He had a reputation for keeping productions on-budget and told Paramount “I can make you 5 movies for that!” Meanwhile Roddenberry was in the background, fuming that he’d been cut out.
It doesn't look like your bridge model is offset like the blueprints. Also, it doesn't line up wit the outside turboshaft. But it looks great!
In the original pilot, Captain Pike's quarters have a curved wall shape and a small window suggesting they are in the structure immediately below the bridge, which would make more sense than the ones seen for Kirk all the way down on deck five.
I toured an aircraft carrier a few years ago, and the captains orders are right next to the bridge. Literally, exit the bridge and there’s the captains door on your left hand.
I’m not sure if that was his main quarter, or if that the same purpose as Picard ready room.
We don’t see a ready room or a bridge adjacent office on Kirk’s Enterprise. That it definitely feels like an oversight by the writers and show runners.
@@tomwilson2112I toured the Battleship Wisconsin - sister ship to the Missouri. Captain’s quarters were very close to the bridge, along with a very impressive meeting room, and I seem to remember reading he based the design on navy ships. While Enterprise was not a battleship, dreadnought, etc, she was often quite alone out there. It would make sense if the Captain’s Quarters were just a few steps away - the Captain couldn’t get stuck in a turbolift during an emergency. Same reason we always ran the stairs going to a code - you’re of no use to anyone, trapped in a malfunctioning elevator.
@@tomwilson2112 I saw that on the USS Lexington, they had a duty cabin in the conning tower and a larger stateroom lower in the ship, so in battle times they were sleeping closer to the command area.
the music is too loud for the voice. I have a hard time listening.
I say the Joesoph blueprints are canon. the only reason they are not is because gene got mad at Franz and this was his payback
Awesome video, the music is a bit too loud and makes it a bit hard to hear you but beyond that the atmosphere and pacing is great 👍
I find it strange that there would be science laboratories directly underneath the bridge. Wouldn't that be dangerous and risky to the ship?
Not as dangerous as having the very command bridge at the most superficial point on the ship that could be easily destroyed by a glancing shot in battle. That’s a bad design choice.
very good point - even the Galactica's CIC is protected by several decks of the ship.
@@Terminus_El_Camino it seems many actual naval ships today still have prominent bridges that could be replaced by one buried in the ship supplied with sensor data
Voice is hard to hear. CGI is amazing as always. Been going through ToS this year. Good memories.
I prefer the idea that there was a more equipped communications center than just the main console on the bridge and a combat information center as well that had more dedicated work areas than just what was on the main bridge located on deck two and three.
I am going to look at it from the point of view of a former military engineer , someone sho has had to frequently cross train in situations that shifted from civil engineering to tactical engineering.
Now lets take that dual philosophy of the Seabees and Army Corp of engineers and apply it to an organization with a primary mission statement of scientific exploration and a secondary mission statement of defense .
Your fleet is going to have a massive amount pure science vessels like the oberth and miranda class that are primary scientific vessel ….
You will also have a select few vessel that will be fully tactical …. These are going to be your dreadnoughts, various scout vessels, and a small number or constitutional classes that are primarily design and staffed by a tactical crew ….. your dreadnoughts are going to spend most of their time discreetly docked at various starbases with only a small skeleton crew on permanent assignment . Your scouts will hop from station to stations, with the majority of its crew on temporary assignment ….
Which leads us to the first line Constitutional class ……
There will be a few laid out as you speak. These vessels will spend most of their time as flag ships for high end admirals , escorting or transporting the Federation secretary general , or on training missions. As the Constitution is phased out in favor of the Excelsior class a few of these vessels will become training vessel under the command of starfleet academy.
HOWEVER at this point the Enterprise has not entered that phase of its service …. As such the enterprise will be configured to scientific exploration, BUT with the ability to quickly convert to tactical.
In that way the stations closest to the bridge will be the scientific labs BUT must still be ready to convert to tactical …
@@MrSheckstr I’d think they would still need a central control room to collect and collate the information sent to the command bridge. Even the original enterprise had half a dozen engineering rooms spread between saucer & secondary. It would seem logical to have a Central Information Center under the bridge. Given the saucer & Secondary were meant to be separable you’d need some space to bring all those systems together. The 8 phaser turrets plus photon torpedos would need coordination in case of battle as well.
Just my thoughts but with the Klingon situation they’d be as ready as the sailing ships if old to swing into battle stance. Even if often inactive wouldn’t those spaces be manned?
I enjoy these videos because as a kid I would pour over the blueprints and wonder how the deck arrangements would work. I was often left a little puzzled so it's nice to see it realized in 3D and confirm I wasn't the only one.
The maintenance corridor behind the 2nd bridge door also led to a bathroom for when Chekov needed to piss.
So the others must to have taken no piss pills?
Did it have the three seashells? 😋
@ it sure did!
Was that where he annoyed Khan?
мочиться
It should have contained the briefing room and the Captain's and First officer's quarters along with a lounge and facilities for the bridge crew.
I like that explanation. If we accept that bridge modules can be swapped out, why not accept that they redid a few decks below after ToS? Franz Joseph’s work deserves to remain at least semi canon 👍
I dunno if I can trust those 60's blueprints. The sets portray the ship to be much smaller than the 'canon' drawings and measurements.
I suspect the entire bridge and some essential systems is the ENTIRE upper saucer section.
One deck down, the widest part of the saucer section are living quarters for 180-200 crew if they hotbunk. A 6 man sick bay and 1 maybe 2 transporter rooms squeezed in there somehow.
The lower side of the saucer (deck 3) houses ship's main computer and lower sensor systems.
But isn't the neck EVEN more way too small then?
Since the CBS acquisition of Star Trek, TAS is apparently canon now. The giant Spock's skeleton was even in Lower Decks.
I lost it when blue Orions showed up complete with the strange pronounciation of their name!
My issue with these blueprints is that everything is bundled up into one column and the rest of the saucer is empty
Directly under the bridge should be the Ships CIC where all the work is done. Below that is the kitchen for The captain’s mess to the rear and to the front the “10 forward “ officers lounge
have you looked ar the various arboretums (Supposedly) found in the different enterprises
@@venomgeekmedia9886 a very multi-purposed area. Good to help freshen the ships air and water as well as serve as relaxation space for crew and the space station crews they visited. Enterprise and sister ships served as the R&R for those crews stuck in tiny stations for several years.
@@chrissmith7669 yeah i think the Franz Joseph Blueprints show it taking up a whole deck on the original.
then on the galaxy class there should probably be several.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 although likely only set dressing we saw in ST V there were planters in the forward lounge and in ST:TMP there were a bunch on the rec deck when it was configured as food court “Biergarten “ that would have improved air quality as well as the large one shown in the lower secondary hull during the reveal shots in I & II with jogging trail, stream and bushes/trees. I don’t recall any in the Formel dining room below the VIP shuttle dock but it would make sense
Those 3D cutaways of the bridge and superstructure look amazing, lit or not 😊
I'm glad you pointed out that the structure and details of the "teardrop" are different on the FJ plans to the filming model. The shape of the bridge is different too, so it allows for significant wiggle room on what those deck plans teen in TMP truly are - perhaps some other starship?😉
Oh, and the secondary door on TAS was in a different location too - it actually replaced the entire short console to the left of the viewscreen!
2:20 , a bottany bay? BOTTANY BAY!!
Well, the "original" 1701 had already lost her new 'starship smell' by the time she made onto the silver screen. Maybe when new, the high energy lab was indeed in that location, but through experience, got moved elsewhere. Same for ALL the other inconsistencies. Experience through time moved them.
"[administration of/for] high energt lab[oratory]" ? Logically(?) having a single fixed place for information/control nearby in the event of any active experiements (or _active_ samples) interfacing with the ship's operations (or an emergency), but still insulated from the actual laboratory/storage space(s) which may be allocated as needed (by the plot) could be beneficial.
It's where they kept the talking dolphin that was constantly screaming "Bridger!"
Excellent video! The cutaways of the bridge and lower decks gives a sense of scale, placement and orientation otherwise hidden. It would be wild if someone actually did an Enterprise flyby with all the hull-adjacent, "outer" decks revealed like this, with characters seated at their stations, walking, etc. Thanks for using your extensive talents to let us see The Big E in a new and exciting light!
I can see a strong argument for putting essential systems low enough down that a serious phaser or Torpedo shot that takes out the bridge leaves those intact.
I have big questions about the structure everywhere, not just under the bridge. There just isn’t enough “steel” on Trek ships, they have no visible skeletons. It’s as if the various interior walls were all load-bearing structures. The ships appear to be built like they’re TV sets! 😄
Also the deck-to-deck heights are about half of what they’d actually need to be. Every even-numbered deck would need to be a network of Jefferies tubes and service tunnels, full of equipment and services distribution serving the deck above.
Boy, the poor Enterprise from TOS! It is so small compared to the Enterprise D and other, later starships. I note that the Enterprise in "Strange New Worlds" does seem substantially larger than this. is that the case? (Like in the later ST movies, where the Enterprise is just enormous)
SNW uses an Enterprise model scaled to around 440 meters, so a lot larger than the TOS size, but nowhere near the 720 meter monstrosity that is the Kelvin Connie
I, too, used to have those plans when I was a kid. I was happy to see them appear in the movie. But given the difference between what the plans showed & what would be more practical, perhaps we can look at the Franz Joseph plans as the original Constitution plans whereas the Enterprise of TOS was Connie Block II or Block III, refits from the original. Thoughts?
5:55 The term used in religious studies is 'deuterocanonical' ("second[ary] canon").
Superb work as always, thank you (:
Odd, the prints I recall seeing had the computer core in the center of the saucer below the bridge.
If I remember correctly directly under the helm console
If I was designing the thing, decks 2 and 3 would have rooms directly supporting bridge operations; things like astrometrics, computer support, captain's office, photon control, a small galley with a synthesizer for coffee and small protein items, and a couple of heads.
One could also speculate that the blueprints are from an earlier layout that was drawn up while the Constitution Class was being designed as there are archives full of ship designs/basic layouts which would eventually be built but to a different layout.
Ex: The North Carolina Class battleships. Originally they were ordered with 14in guns but when the treaty system fell apart, they were built, and equipped with 16in guns.
In a hospital, a red line on the floor means only certain people are allowed to pass. They're usually in the corridor leading to operating rooms and other critical areas. I wonder if that red line at 0:36 has a similar purpose.
From memory, in TOS the room doors had number plates near to them. I think Kirk's was 3C xxx (can't remember the xxx). I took the 3 to mean deck number.
If you look at warships, you’d expect a restroom (toilet if youre british), a place to grab a coffee/snack and the captains day cabin (with space for staff and a waiting area fir crew).
The problem with the Star Trek ships is they done have a CIC where the weapons and sensors would be analysed by a team of people supported by AI. The Captain may fight the ship from the Bridge for manoeuvring, but then the first officer should run the CIC.
,
There's no need for laboratories on deck 2 and 3. In fact, that's where the briefing room should be - in close proximity to the bridge.
eg. On the refit, the officers lounge is there at the back.
Having maintenance corridors behind the bridge also solves the turbo lift issue, as there would be room for a turbo lift to go the the angled entrance and the round "turbo lift" module at the rear of the bridge could be the top of the shaft, or as Mr Trek speculates, a dedicated bridge turbo lift storage bay.
I seem to remember one episode in which Spock and guest take an infamously long turbo lift trip to Deck 2 (B?). It would appear that this deck was reserved for guests (quarters, lounge, etc).
Those curved rooms with no headroom near the edge have long bugged me. A similar problem applies with the rooms beneath, but with a funny floor that curves up at the edge. I hope the bowling alley isn't there.
Having labs and such makes sense to me - you don't want all that on the bridge as that could be disruptive but you do want it close incase it is needed so having them on decks 2 and 3 are a good idea. I think having the briefing room on 2 would have made sense - the idea of having it on a deck surrounded by junior officer's quarters seems like an odd one to me. I could see it being more of a "public" meeting room so a place where you bring diplomats, etc and then having it on 4 make sense since it is away from ship operations, etc incase there are issues and then you have a smaller one on deck 2 that the crew uses so they are close to the bridge. But that's just me.
Wires and conduit, mostly.
The whole layout of the ENTERPRISE is ludicrous. There is no reason for a vital control center of the ship to be in such an exposed position. In a starship, which depends on sensors for its interface with the outside world, the 'bridge' would be where the CIC is in a modern warship, inside a lot of protective steel.
It would seem an odd choice to put laboratories there on deck 3 where it looks like they indulged in enough windows that you'd think they'd put more common spaces there where, say, more of the crew might get a nice view on their coffee break or while on standby I if the ship happens to be near anything to see.
Interesting to see that deck 2 and deck 3 were home to science labs. I was thinking that the science labs would be located further down, maybe located in the secondary hull.
The bridge can be left, right, up, down or even facing the opposite direction. It does not matter considering they could see outside the ship on the view screen.
JJ Abrams Trek made the view screen a window. Funny how the sun can shine in and no one other than the Captain can command to "polarize the view screen"
Remember that time Spock was taking the captured Romulan captain to deck 2, (3 or 4 I can't find the video) that was one long turbolift ride.
I love videos like this, bravo!
Wow, never been so early to the party. I had the original blueprints publication as a teen. It made perfect sense to me and mostly still does. The Enterprise is not a warship. It's an explorer. Auxiliary control makes sense as a backup to the bridge for emergencies. It's in a protected area. The bridge isn't always the primary control center, it's merely the highest manned station on a ship's superstructure. In a few episodes, bridge control was locked out from auxiliary control, but I don't recall the reverse ever happening. Perhaps the bridge actually IS a secondary control center? Could it be that customary word usage and drift reversed the actual names vs. functions? Maybe Captains prefer the bridge for the better layout. The service corridor around the bridge actually solves the offset bridge main turbolift issue nicely as well. As for the extra door, I'll go along with easier access to a toilet as well as staircase being a great advantage. Just don't be leaning on the batteries while you wait your turn. Lowest bidder contractors can play hell with the rack construction.
everyone knows it was a mini bar, serving romulan ale
Realistically the bridge/cockpit should be right in the middle of the primary-hull as it's very vulnerable to enemy fire where it is.
Under the bridge is where there Space Trolls reside.
Its been confirmed in canon that under the bridge is where the keep the supply of explosives for the com panels.
Might want to turn down the music volume. Having a hard time hearing your words.
Mr. Trek ought to know this.
On thing the Star Trek Technical Manual showed was something never seen on the showed was a bathroom for the bridge. It was a much better than James Doohan’s suggestion of using phasers 🤣
3:32 So would you say this area could be the Botany Bay!?
where are the giant void spaces the size of Australia where turbo lifts don't have shafts and there's enough room for a whole starship to fit??
Have you seen Mr. Trek’s work with physical models? It’s very intriguing.
Seems to me more likely to contain officer's lounge, diplomatic reception areas, etc.
You would think they would place the bridge in the heart of the structure so it's the last place to get destroyed in a battle
I appreciate how you compared the Enterprise bridge to that of a sea-going vessel. On that line, where do you suppose are all the lifeboats? Do you believe TOS Enterprise was equipped with them?
The predecessor NX was shown to have them as was the Refit.
Are we to assume the only options to abandon ship were shuttles, detaching the saucer or emergency transporters? I think this might be a worthy topic of a video.
Thanks for a fun analysis of the sub bridge decks. There are many fun and interesting challenges or downright conflicts that present themselves in the Enterprise model as you have previously discussed.
Thanks again.
A Star Trek: The Original Series inspired life boat:
ruclips.net/video/pExECwfiHkw/видео.htmlsi=Sdx6s8f-lo6aPzbt
Pretty good. But you have deck one the bridge at the wrong angle. The turbo lift is at the red door section. Not behind communications panel.
In the episode Enterprise incident, about twenty decks.
Im guessing the toilets for the entire ship since you never see them anywhere else.
Interestly, later interations of the ENTERPRISE had her main computer core that started on deck 2 and would extend down through the saucer section connect with the planetary sensors located in the ventral sensor dome...TOS didn't do thst.
did you notice tthat turboelevator is centrally positioned and the whole bridge is offset by 36 degrees off ceenter?
3:00 I remember a reference made by Sargon in Kirk’s body saying he was in Deck six briefing room.
The second door on bridge doesn’t bother me. It makes sense to have another egress if one gets disabled and for utility access reasons. Plus, this video inadvertently brings up the scale conundrum of Trek ships probably not being large enough. Obviously there’s Jeffries tubes and other maintenance paths, but allowing enough space to be available for turbo lifts and similar equipment to properly operate is questionable when looking at schematics and vessel structures.
Yeah it’s fiction and suspension of belief is in play but it’s still a mystery that many of us try to grasp. That’s why I think when looking at windows and shuttle craft those are fairly quantifiable items that can be used for scale in reference when measured by the height of an average person.
It contains a large target for the enemy to aim at
It is the cetacean ops suite, actually.
The vocal needs the treble boosting around 1 khz to improve intelligability. Sounds like it was recorded in a cardboard box under the floorboards.
I just noticed something ! If there are turbo lift goes down no one can get to or out of the bridge !
Didn't look like there was a staircase there .
What's under the bridge ?
Red hot chili peppers !
what was under the bridge?
Troubled waters.
I wonder if they will do a Voyager layout
Having the Bridge on the very top was itself ridiculous. Why not just paint "shoot here!"? Of course, having the Captain and First Officer both in the same place also ssems reckless. Why not put the Bridge on Deck, say, six in the forward section, where the Captain is in red alert, while the XO goes to an Auxiliary Bridge on, say, the aft portion of deck nine? Its not like the bridge has actual windows requiring it to be near the outer hull.
Very interesting information, I always love this kind of stuff, however, the background music is to loud. Am I gonna listen to the music or to the natation?
this video has the kind of audio that young people can hear clearly but old people have a hard time with
audio is fine for me by the way, maybe slightly muffled but your voice is clear
The one and only toilet on the whole ship. 😅
Hey, guy, you need a boost in the 5-8khz range on this one.
My biggest question for this and all space adventures of any generation is where do they keep the artificial gravity machine? No one seems to question that one! They only ever land on a planet with the same gravity as earth and if someone can explain to me how they can project a hologram onto nothing I will stand back in amazement!
Q: What's under the bridge?
A: Everything else. Duh.
Thanks for the Video ..... Audio is too loud (maybe by 6-8db) under the narration. Especially noticeable in the last 2 minutes.
Why on earth would they leave the bridge exposed like that? Silly starfleet. You had so much to learn.
Clearly Frank didn't understand what he was working on, kinda like I was doing the same kind of sketches during my teenage years just for the lolz. So I don't consider it canon, especially since we barely see it on screen. The logic of ship building doesn't apply.
What we should have according to sets and other Starfleet vessels on decks two and three: briefing room, support systems and one officer ready room, and eventually a mess but the superstructure seems too small for that and it could be forward of the Saucer section on deck four or five.
No labs, no wide rooms without any structure since all electrical power and computer supply cables and circuitry is going through the center of the saucer structure.
As for fhe briefing room, it could also be around the same vertical structure, hence its supports and the diameter they are protraying but on deck 5 (the corridor on which it is hooked si so generic that it could be anywhere on the ship anyway.
The main problem is that to make everything fit together, sets and blueprints should have been done accordingly and the sad truth is that it's NEVER done properly.
I see you ST DISCOVERY with those huge voids for turbolifts in the middle of nowhere like it's in another dimension or something...
Sadly these days ( maybe always ) Star Trek Canon is about as firm as overcooked pasta....Sadly most writers for all series ( movies, tv, games, etc ) would rather put new stuff in that they think is great and fantastic without bothering to see if it even remotely fits what was established before, rather than making their new ideas fit with already established lore. This is especially true in most sci-fi series anymore, since apparently Hollywood can't envision any sort of future setting that isn't grim dark, or just otherwise horrible, and even setting like Star Trek that were supposed to be bright and uplifting and humanities better angels have triumphed over our darker devils is subject to this now.
I'm pretty sure it was the Red Hot Chili Peppers that was under the bridge.
Do we know V'ger is accessing Enterprise deck plans in that scene? Could be another starship. The bridge dome doesn't look right for a Constitution.
Also, I'd love to see plans that justify the shape of the A-C decks. Why have the bulge if it just has more generic rooms in it? Why not make the whole thing a detatchable ship/ escape vessel for the essential vessel control staff?
This could have been an interesting video, but I couldn't hear or understand anything that was being said due to the muffled voice and the loud background sounds.
What? There's no bowling alley?!