Why read him? Because it's so enjoyable. The prose is just magnificent and Gibbon's style peerless. I particularly love his cutting wit. I'm 73 now and first read th'e work when I was 20. I've read the 'entire book 3 more times over the course of my life. One of the greatest books I've ever read.
At an early age (15) I was fascinated by Roman history and read Gibbons Magnus Opus 'Decline and Fall' within one winter in 1970-71. While thoroughly learning the actual history I also learned about prose. His elegant writing style was one of a man who enjoyed writing and his style is forever laminated into my soul. I read it again recently and it brought back all those good feelings I had as a teenager in the seventies. Only now am I learning about the man himself. A giant of the literary world.
Reading Gibbons is refreshing in that he is forthright in his views; something I feel is impossible in the modern era, due to the rapidity of immediate criticism in the digital age. There are no qualifications or apologizes in his acerbic style. His prose is indeed wonderful.
I strongly believe the acerbic style is the main reason to read him. Scholarship, archeology, etc. have moved on so much since he wrote that his thesis and his incredible style are the main appeal, rather than objective facts about history.
His insights show that nothing is new under the sun and that men and women had the same hopes and fears and dreams and trials that we experience today. And that circumstances that we think are new or unique to our times are not new at all.
Reference to gibbons: Whoever has curiosity in the Roman deity terminus so recently taken under the patronage of American democracy, will have his ample curiosity fulfilled in the luminous pages of gibbons decline and fall. For what Rome was in her decline, America was in her infancy! -from the “war with Mexico reviewed” Abiel Livermore, American Peace Society 1850
Edward Gibbon FRS (8 May 1737 - 16 January 1794) was an English historian, writer and Member of Parliament. His most important work, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, was published in six volumes between 1776 and 1788 and is known for the quality and irony of its prose, its use of primary sources, and its open criticism of organised religion.
Interesting that his first volume 1776 was written same year as the Declaration of Independence and it's last volume 1788 was written the same year as the Constitution. I know our founding fathers were inspired heavily by Roman history when they wrote the Constitution. I imagine they all had copies of Gibbon's work. Thomas Jefferson cited Cicero as one of his major influence when writing the Declaration of Independence. When the Continental army was at their lowest point encamped in the miserable Valley Forge, the sick, hungry, and exhausted troops crowded into a small building to watch the play Cato, A Tragedy. Cato’s story was specifically chosen to rouse the troops’ desperate spirits.
@Mike Markwell i want to read the book, I already hold it on my reader, but my English is somewhere around intermediate. I read George Martin or Tolkien, but i use dictionary almost on every page. There are always couple of words I'm not aware of still. I've been studying English since October of 2017 and there is a long path in front of me. I'm kind of training myself with these fictional books before i can read such master pieces like Gibbon's writing. Or maybe i just should read it and translate unknown words simultaneously?
I dig how surprisingly even-handed and humorous he is with christianity and, just as importantly, how he maps this criticism to the 'mohammedan' religion.
Greed of the intellect (i will read all these books...) vs. Cultivation, care, development of intellectual stamina, decency, etc (i will read some of the great works and study them exhaustively and -[then]- go forth...) Standing in a cemetary of giants vs. Standing on the shoulders of giants. "Attitude is everything, _attitude is everything_ ."
A few hundreds years later and we’re still not sure what caused the fall of the Western Roman Empire. It’s now fashionable to label it Multifaceted…maybe if we would focus on comparing the Western half vs the Eastern one and list the differences and study that ?
I've gone through 15 and 16 recently and I do not agree with the opinion that Gibbon blames Christianity for the fall of the Roman Empire. In a couple of chapters before, in fact, he places the blame at the feet of Gallienus and the previous bad emperors during the Crisis of the 3rd Century. After him, the Empire passed into the hands of a long string of Illyrian Emperors and the Roman Empire may as well then have been called the Illyrian Empire. While many were successful in gathering back the provinces and ruling, almost all distained Rome and all things Roman. They were merely strong men administrators, with no use or sanction of the Senate. If anything, Constantine used Christianity to hold the empire together for a bit longer. It was getting quite difficult to get Roman citizens to fight against rivals and barbarians; dying for honor was much less attractive than living for enjoyment. But a state religion that promised life after death, especially in a cause sanctioned by God - then you had something.
If a historian is more renowned because of their most famous' books writing style instead of historical accuracy or discoveries, they’re a poor historian.
this is an ages old debate about whether or not a historian's job is simply to collect facts about the past, or instead to present those facts within a particular context or narrative. Modern historians prefer the former, but there's value in the latter. It respects the historian as a professional who might be able to inject their own wisdom and insight into history. Instead of 'I've spent a decade researching this historical event, and here are the facts', it says 'I've spent a decade researching this historical event, and here's what I've concluded'. The former is scientific, the latter is artistic. It's understandable why historians are reluctant to approach history in this manner. It's easy to abuse. But I think we've taken the artistry and creativity out of presenting history and I think it's part of the reason why we don't have as many great classic works of history as we've had in the past.
Why read him? Because it's so enjoyable. The prose is just magnificent and Gibbon's style peerless. I particularly love his cutting wit. I'm 73 now and first read th'e work when I was 20. I've read the 'entire book 3 more times over the course of my life. One of the greatest books I've ever read.
His prose style is matchless; I couldn’t agree more !
At an early age (15) I was fascinated by Roman history and read Gibbons Magnus Opus 'Decline and Fall' within one winter in 1970-71. While thoroughly learning the actual history I also learned about prose. His elegant writing style was one of a man who enjoyed writing and his style is forever laminated into my soul. I read it again recently and it brought back all those good feelings I had as a teenager in the seventies. Only now am I learning about the man himself. A giant of the literary world.
Reading Gibbons is refreshing in that he is forthright in his views; something I feel is impossible in the modern era, due to the rapidity of immediate criticism in the digital age. There are no qualifications or apologizes in his acerbic style.
His prose is indeed wonderful.
I strongly believe the acerbic style is the main reason to read him. Scholarship, archeology, etc. have moved on so much since he wrote that his thesis and his incredible style are the main appeal, rather than objective facts about history.
His insights show that nothing is new under the sun and that men and women had the same hopes and fears and dreams and trials that we experience today. And that circumstances that we think are new or unique to our times are not new at all.
Reference to gibbons:
Whoever has curiosity in the Roman deity terminus so recently taken under the patronage of American democracy, will have his ample curiosity fulfilled in the luminous pages of gibbons decline and fall. For what Rome was in her decline, America was in her infancy!
-from the “war with Mexico reviewed” Abiel Livermore, American Peace Society 1850
Edward Gibbon FRS (8 May 1737 - 16 January 1794) was an English historian, writer and Member of Parliament.
His most important work, The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, was published in six volumes between 1776 and 1788 and is known for the quality and irony of its prose, its use of primary sources, and its open criticism of organised religion.
Interesting that his first volume 1776 was written same year as the Declaration of Independence and it's last volume 1788 was written the same year as the Constitution. I know our founding fathers were inspired heavily by Roman history when they wrote the Constitution. I imagine they all had copies of Gibbon's work. Thomas Jefferson cited Cicero as one of his major influence when writing the Declaration of Independence. When the Continental army was at their lowest point encamped in the miserable Valley Forge, the sick, hungry, and exhausted troops crowded into a small building to watch the play Cato, A Tragedy. Cato’s story was specifically chosen to rouse the troops’ desperate spirits.
@ Marty moose
Don't forget Thomas Paine ! !
He ought to be honoured on both sides of the Atlantic .
An interesting discussion. I've been meaning to read The Decline and Fall for a while, but this gives me even more desire to do so.
@Mike Markwell i want to read the book, I already hold it on my reader, but my English is somewhere around intermediate. I read George Martin or Tolkien, but i use dictionary almost on every page. There are always couple of words I'm not aware of still. I've been studying English since October of 2017 and there is a long path in front of me. I'm kind of training myself with these fictional books before i can read such master pieces like Gibbon's writing.
Or maybe i just should read it and translate unknown words simultaneously?
@Teucer Russell so you know about the Giants?
Reading him right now. Love it!
I dig how surprisingly even-handed and humorous he is with christianity and, just as importantly, how he maps this criticism to the 'mohammedan' religion.
Greed of the intellect (i will read all these books...)
vs.
Cultivation, care, development of intellectual stamina, decency, etc (i will read some of the great works and study them exhaustively and -[then]- go forth...)
Standing in a cemetary of giants
vs.
Standing on the shoulders of giants.
"Attitude is everything, _attitude is everything_ ."
A few hundreds years later and we’re still not sure what caused the fall of the Western Roman Empire. It’s now fashionable to label it Multifaceted…maybe if we would focus on comparing the Western half vs the Eastern one and list the differences and study that ?
I've read that this book was a massive influence on sci fi writers such as Frank Herbert & Isaac Asimov.
The guest sounds a lot like Richard Dawkins.
my grandfather is Billy Gibbons.
@Jacob Gibbons Really? Oh I love your ancestor.
I've gone through 15 and 16 recently and I do not agree with the opinion that Gibbon blames Christianity for the fall of the Roman Empire. In a couple of chapters before, in fact, he places the blame at the feet of Gallienus and the previous bad emperors during the Crisis of the 3rd Century. After him, the Empire passed into the hands of a long string of Illyrian Emperors and the Roman Empire may as well then have been called the Illyrian Empire. While many were successful in gathering back the provinces and ruling, almost all distained Rome and all things Roman. They were merely strong men administrators, with no use or sanction of the Senate. If anything, Constantine used Christianity to hold the empire together for a bit longer. It was getting quite difficult to get Roman citizens to fight against rivals and barbarians; dying for honor was much less attractive than living for enjoyment. But a state religion that promised life after death, especially in a cause sanctioned by God - then you had something.
It says in the introduction that Gibbons is a Calvinist. Therefore he has a theological foundation as evangelical
Can anyone tell me which volume cimtains chapter 15-16?
end of Vol.1 and the beginning of II
me-nang = win
be-nang = thread
By the way, what is veal?
He used the adverb, insensibly, incessantly, throughout the book(s).
I don't think Gibbon was so much 'attacking Christianity' as being anti-clerical.
He didn't attack Christianity severely enough honestly
@@therealestg9 He lived in the lifetime of Voltaire and the Enlightenment, he didn't need to.
My great great grandfather is edward gibbon
I didn't think Gibbon had any children?
impossible unless you are over 100 years old
lol your family must live long lifes :)
No, he's not.
Eiw great
If a historian is more renowned because of their most famous' books writing style instead of historical accuracy or discoveries, they’re a poor historian.
So edgy.
this is an ages old debate about whether or not a historian's job is simply to collect facts about the past, or instead to present those facts within a particular context or narrative.
Modern historians prefer the former, but there's value in the latter. It respects the historian as a professional who might be able to inject their own wisdom and insight into history. Instead of 'I've spent a decade researching this historical event, and here are the facts', it says 'I've spent a decade researching this historical event, and here's what I've concluded'. The former is scientific, the latter is artistic.
It's understandable why historians are reluctant to approach history in this manner. It's easy to abuse. But I think we've taken the artistry and creativity out of presenting history and I think it's part of the reason why we don't have as many great classic works of history as we've had in the past.
@@manco828 But it's the truth? Gibbon is never recommended to be read if you actually want to understand how Western Rome fell.