We Poured It A Foot Thick - How Did They Mess This Up! (Garage Floor Over-kill)
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- Опубликовано: 31 дек 2022
- #EverythingAboutConcrete #MikeDayConcrete #overkill
We ended up pouring this garage floor about a foot thick because the excavation contractor didn't grade the sub-grade to the right level.
The general contractor didn't check his work before the heating contractor installed the styrofoam and radiant heat so there was no way to re-grade the floor without tearing out all the styro and heating tubes.
The GC decided to just pour the concrete extra thick so that's what we did.
There was also an issue with the slope being excessive, 6 inches from back to front in 27 feet.
After talking with the home owner we changed the slope to 3 inches. See if pouring 12 inches of concrete is easier than 5 inches.
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12" thick >> just in case you wanna park your D11 Dozer in your garage
Right, you never know!
LOL
I’ve watched a few videos and have to say Mike your approach and narration during the videos is really easy to listen to and you’re a true pro. I don’t do a lot of concrete but I’ve picked up a few tips for sure.
The home owner will be lucky if that floor heats up at all with the 12 inches of concrete on top of the heat tubes !!
It'll heat up, just might take a while. Then it'll stay warm longer also.
@@MikeDayConcrete... one giant heat sink that's for sure.
I was wondering how effective the heating would be. Doesn’t seem like it would work very well being that thick
Heat rises people
That was my thoughts. Conrete is a thermal conductor but at that depth and the size of tubing and total heating power it can produce I wonder if it is now ineffectual. It seems like radiant tubing has to be within the top 3-4 inches of the conrete surface to have any affect.
Greetings from the UK. Wish our houses were built like yours, ours are tiny, garages you can’t get modern cars in let alone work on. Nice job there. Nice big slab that’ll take whatever the home owner puts on it, even big machinery like lathes and milling machines.
Really excellent team work. Everyone knows what to do and where to go. I did a concrete slab only once, 30 years ago. We did the forming, and the concrete (0rdered the concrete truck) in a construction class at a Community college. They had free labor in us, we poured a large slab for the County Fairgrounds. It was a lot of work and there even for 12 of us working on a 18X20 foot slab.
i could form and pour that by myself :)
If I was the homeowner I would be seriously pissed if my GC didn't coordinate with the grade crew and the concrete contractor to the point I ended up paying for a foot of concrete in my garage.
The homeowner didn't pay for it, the GC did. It was their call to move forward the way it was.
Never pour on someone else's drading job
Your screeding is poetry in motion!
I drove a mixer truck for about a decade and you wouldn't believe the stories.
1. A home owner wanted 9 yards inside a cardboard form.
2. Husband wasn't home so wife said to just put it over there and he will take care of it when he gets back.
3. Homeowner wanted it so wet it looked like wash out for his garage floor so he could work it easier.
4. Home owner ordered 3 truck loads too much and we sent them back to the batch plant loaded. Miscalculated by 27 yards.
5. Flow filled Styrofoam walls wich of course broke and made a mess.
I could go on and on....
Mike,
First of all Happy New Year to you and your family and crew. Another great video.
I enjoy watching these types of videos because you point out the things to look for or you mention the posiible problems. One can get tired of seeing how things turn out good but I feel it's more important to know the bad things that would and could go wrong.
Great work.
Same to you!
I enjoy your videos being a old concrete guy. My knees keep from pouring anymore and I really miss it. I'm from Tennessee and we kick screed here to. That think of a floor is ridiculous, someone's got some explaining to do. Thanks for your content.
I'm enjoying the banter with the first truck driver, I imagine he's one of the drivers you're glad to see.
Great video. Learned a few things. Thanks for sharing
Very Satisfying.
Thank you.
amazing job mike happy new year
I'm just here for the "When Mike isn't looking, the wire doesn't get pulled", crowd. 😎
That thin wire in that thick a slab is nearly worthless.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb In this case, I would agree. I'm guessing the trucks were already on the way, otherwise, I would have aborted the pour myself.
You said it was spec'd out at 6" slope on the plan, don't blame the excavator for making it so.
Might need to add hip waders to the truck for pours like this.
I know, right
So the GC eats $1900 in extra concrete and the homeowner is basically out the cost of the radiant system and pays for all the future bottom of the slab underside heat losses. Output drops off as tubing depth increases. The highest output occurs when the tube is centered about 3/4-in. below to the slab surface (about 25 Btu/hr./ft2 at 100° F water temperature). Lowering the tube another inch into the slab reduces output to 24 Btu/hr./ft2. Taking it down yet another inch lowers the output to 22.3 Btu/hr./ft2. However, when the tube is located at the bottom of 12" slab the output is only 7.6 Btu/hr./ft2 -OUCH. On the plus side they can feel free to park a 85 ton John Deere 870G excavator any time they want.
GOOD MORNING & HAPPY NEW YEAR
Awesome awesome job u and ur guys did Mike be safe and always be careful doing what y'all do each and every day buddy
Thank you!
You did a great job
great-great job boys
Just think of the car lifts you could install in that slab. No issues with bolting anything into that thing!
Be able to install a heavy equipment lift for say the concrete delivery truck.🤪
Wow.. It's New Years Day;Happy New Year Guys... Totally agree that Grade should have been taking care of,with the hse foundation being a issue/ur First pour I'd have had Grade checked everywhere else..Crazy man,but u guys did a Nice job.I work construction, Concrete,Aspault,Mach. That's alot of Concrete right there
Doesnt organic material rot under concrete?
Any concern with the radiant heat being able to heat that huge mass of concrete? I'd imagine there will be a lot of lag between the radiant turning on and the heat energy actually getting through to the garage space.
Radiant heat is recommended (by manufacturer) to be no more than 2" from the top of the concrete.
The deeper it is the less efficient it is (I figure with that depth they're not gonna be happy with their gas/electric bill. Whichever is the one warming the water tank for the system).
Man, concrete is soo much fun to pour. Ive paid people to let me help on big jobs whenever driving by one at random.
Happy new year
I like the one guys idea of a booster, Capt Morgan's LOL. Merry New Year to all.
I’m not in construction and probably never pour concrete but I watch this whole video-on New Year’s Day , looked nicely done, I was waiting for a fail.. but I get it now. Great job. Happy New Year 2023. Thanks for all your great videos.
I did concrete work when I was young and I will say these guys are good at their trade.
Shrinkage and expansion are real problems, so there is a reason why there is a code for minimum reinforcement. That video that shows small gauge welded wire fabric is interesting. You are right somebody should get back from vacation and supervise this job
Nice Job!
Thanks!
Going to take a very long time for under floor heating to heat up a 12" slab.🤣
That's not a bad thing because it would hold heat longer too (heat sink).
Also, better too thick than too thin.
Great job.12inch?it was almost over the top of their wellies at this end!
radiant floor is great idea but what happens if there's a problem? Gotta dig up the slab?
How effective is this heated floor going to be when it under 12 inches of slab?
I was about to pose that very thought.
It only makes a difference for the lag time to bring it to temp or for cool down. It has more thermal mass is all
Typically 1" to 2" below surface. Is most efficient! Seems like ya'll did a great job at finishing that concrete though! Hopefully it don't take five years for that new homeowners boiler system to heat the concrete up.
Just discovered your videos Mike - you do a great job. I’m looking at building garage in a rural area. Trying to get knowledgeable when talking to trades. Garage is going to be about 25’ deep. What slope should one have? You make comment in this video about 3” over 28 feet. Is there a rule of thumb?
Is that going to mess with the in floor heating so far under the concrete. I see the tubing under the rebar.
Mike.... you guys always do great work...
This time though, the wire wasn't off the ground and only second were pulled up... it happens in 12" off concrete
Hi Mike, Thanks for your videos. Do you happen to have a video where you poured a slab patio that the owner was considering one day possibly building over at least part of it?
In Europe there would be two pours, first the 4 inch subfloor, then on top of that insulation, then the radiant heat on top with a fast warming thin liquid screed self levelling covering that. Much better
That's a lot of concrete to heat up will in floor heating even work?
Watching from Australia. Here, the "reo", steel mesh, is held up by placing plastic "saddles" or supports under it to situate the steel in the middle of the poured concrete. Is that not done in the USA??
Wow. That adds to the cost substantially when the sub grade is that far off.
Yes, it's a lot of extra concrete.
If the mesh is being used for rebar as well as holding the pipes then prop it up from below on cups, you’ll get adequate ‘cover’ and stop the rebar rusting and the concrete will be strengthened in tension. Bottom 1/3 so 4” up if 12” is the rule of thumb
Truck driver was a class act!
He's a good guy!
The radiant heat will probably be useless
I wish you were in the Greenville, SC area. I have grown to trust you from afar.
will the radiant heat even work with it that thick?
I'm just wondering if the rebar is high enough for that much concrete.
When concrete is that thick, you really don’t need rebar. If you’re going to use rebar then it would have to be at least 3/8” that wire mesh they used in the video is USELESS!!!!
@@jeanious2009 Time for some pre stress cables perhaps?
That was a very good expensive mistake. Surprised noone questioned it before the pour even started.
Very nicely done. I like watching a crew that knows what their doing. Was that 6in slump or 6in slope on the plans? haha. Maybe they wanted them to back in so they could have a better running start out of the garage. What an incredibly enormous mistake in grading! Wow! I used to get my ass chewed over a 1/4 inch. Strange overhang detail there. Is that wood post supporting the steel beam permanent? I would have used a steel post for that, but wood is fine as long as it stays dry. That slab will certainly hold some serious heat once it get warmed up. No worries about piercing the radiant tubing using Tapcons in that slab.....
Thanks Mike!
Should keep the rain water out if nothing else.
Maybe it is so when you drive through the back wall of the garage, you don't damage the basement walls.
Nice work, Why wasnt the wire pulled up?
It was many times.
Will the heat come thru
customer gonna wonder why the hell his heated floor don't work.
I assume you’re going to need extra deep cuts for your relief cuts. Is the soft cut saw capable of going that deep ? If not, how do you get the relief cuts done adequately?
Great question.
Probably have to use a Cut off saw in a cart for that depth. Soffcut usually has the 1.5"max depth cut on a 6" blade.
12” concrete doesn’t require relief cuts, that whole slab is thicker than any 10 story foundation.
gj fellas
Any chance we can get someone with a leaf blower to blow out all the debris before the ready mix concrete gets installed?
@Mike Day Concrete, should charg' em extra for new sets of boots and jeans for the 3 of yea!!! I love the gruff talk, truckkkk driva!!! ha ha ha!!! Damm didn't know that you needed SUBA gear for flat work, ha ha ha!!!
Wow, what a feffed up design.
Wonder how effective that under slab heating will be with that much more concrete.
Not sure but I think it'll be ok once it's heated.
I mean, obviously that is not a normal situation however, if it were to happen you couldn't have asked for better conditions. The fact that the concrete was already an hour and a half old by the time it got to you helped and then of course the weather was not baking hot in the sun and so on and so on. You boys went in, assessed the situation and made it happen and luckily like I said, the conditions on your side weren't worse. Great job. I really couldn't pull away from watching this episode. It looks incredible. I live in Oregon and I would hire your crew in a heart beat in any of my projects if you weren't on the other side of the states haha That is one way to end a year out haha I cant wait to see what 2023 has in store for you. See you in the next one.
Awesome, thank you Megan!
Hey Mike love your content. I cannot wait to pour my 40x60 slab after joining the Concrete Underground and watching all of your content. One question about the mix y’all use though. I emailed a company about what I was after - 4k psi, mid-high range water reducer, 6” slump, fiber mesh reinforcement. They said the fiber mesh they use is to prevent shrinkage, he made it sound like the fiber mesh used to actually reinforce was uncommon and only used on engineered jobs etc. Is their a specific brand of those additives you can expound on a bit either somewhere in the Underground or here? Thanks a ton appreciate you sharing a lifetime of experience with us.
Don't put too much weight on the advice from the sales staff at the company you emailed. Just because contractors don't necessarily follow a best practice in your area doesn't mean that it's overkill or a bad practice! Just take a look at the average spec house from a national home builder... they can barely frame their houses competently.
For these builders (who likely comprise a significant portion of the business for that concrete company you mentioned), they need to save every last cent to maximize quarterly earnings. They'll be buying 3500psi (or less, if possible!) concrete to save a few bucks. They certainly aren't going to be paying for extras like fiber mesh. Consider that fiber mesh may "only" cost you $8+ per yard for a retail purchase. For you (as the project manager / homeowner), that may only be an extra few hundred dollars, but for a national homebuilder completing 500 homes per year, that could be $100,000!
Now, of course, any homeowner buying a new home for $250K - $1.5M+ would gladly pay an extra $150 for fiber mesh in their concrete if the cost/benefit was explained to them. But as I just described, this information is very far removed from the end user. Even if builders did explain this to the user, there's no way they could sell a home for $250,149 instead of $249,999 to recoup that expense, so material upgrades are almost always a cost center for national homebuilders.
(I could go on; this doesn't just apply to concrete! Check out the sill plate for homes from national builders; For an extra $100 per house, they could upgrade to "ground contact" UC4A pressure treated lumber. But instead they pocket that $100 and almost exclusively use "above ground only" UC3B pressure treated lumber which has ~50% less wood preservative (and more headaches down the road for the homeowner!). A reasonable home buyer would certainly spend $100 in this area for the better material... but except for custom homes (where an engineer is likely specifying the wood quality and concrete fiber mesh ;)), there's currently no way for national home builders to "monetize" any material upgrades... so they're never even offered to the homeowner)
In any case, that was the (long; sorry!) explanation for why concrete sales people find add-ons like fiber mesh to be "rare" or exotic; it's not that they're misleading you, the problem is that the majority of their business comes from contractors who are following the directions of upper management pencil pushers!
Hi Mike That must have worn you out having to walk through concrete that deep. Your crew and the driver seem to be good friends
How is the underground? Is it a lot more detailed?
Check out helix micro reinforcing - tiny twisted steel that is added to the mix.
Always use rebar if you want it to last! Use of fiberglass in place of rebar is not going to give yup the strength against stress fracturing. Wire mesh or rebar should be held up with plastic risers or concrete Dolby blocks with tie wire embedded into them to tie to rebar or mesh. Any structural rebar or wire that is not held within the slab at the proper depth will not give the ultimate strength. Adding of plasticizers in place of water to make it flow-and achieve a specific slump is a great way to get a higher PSI concrete. Less water greater strength. Always pour as dry as you can handle it and work it. Use high frequency vibrator to help with moving the concrete, removing air bubbles and bringing the cream to the top for an easier finish. Higher Portland concrete, like a six sack mix, will give much better quality in the long term.
I’m still Attempting to wrap my mind around
putting the garage floor over the basement.
Either expand out the garage or shrink the basement.
"I had booster the other day too, it's called Captain Morgan'" 😆
With how tick the concrete is the heat pipe in it are going to do Feck all mite just stop it freezing
Wow. Guess he'll never have to worry about weigh limits for vehicle parking.
I'm wondering if the subgrade compaction failed, or washed out some? And is the floor heating going to work under that much concrete? Wow, big mistake. It looks great now though!
This is the same thing I was wondering. I was thinking is the in floor heat even gunna work with a slab that thick.
Sure. It's insulated underneath. It will take a long time to warm up and a long time to cool down, so even temps in the garage will be easier to maintain. Thermal mass is generally a good thing when constant temperature is the goal, but if you want more heat quick, it's not so bueno. If you turn up the heat in that garage, you may not see result for several hours.
@@mikemorgan5015 the responses....they are clueless and don't read..you are absolutely correct and they are looking at the heat like they are a heated bathroom floor, which is heated to make it comfortable to bare feet.
For constant temperature thermal mass is needed and if the heat source was geothermal or solar they would be looking at more mass..maybe 18"? Lol.
Concrete isn't necessarily the most cost effective mass though.
Maybe 12" of concrete for rebar top and bottom for added flexural strength in the floor slab?
Wow, Looked like it was over the boots. Guess he'll be ok if he ever wants a automotive lift put in. Is that a heated floor ? Isn't that going to be a bit thick to feel the heat ?
Well am glad that wire wasn’t pulled.
The guy shooting grade must have dropped his laser. 🤣
You guys ended up making it look good though
It probably makes no difference, but we always vibrate our concrete.
What saw do you use to cut joints in at 12in thick concrete?
We still use our Soff-Cut saw
When it's that thick don't you need to vibrate the concrete to remove the air pockets?
At the slump we pour, there's no air pockets.
How long does a pour that thick take to cure 100%?
Man you guys busted that out three guys man that's hard work
When pouring that thick is thermal contraction, expansion not a problem? I thought that’s way bridges and such needed those oversized expansion joints. I work in wood and with using larger and larger pieces it’s a issue.
I don't think it'll be an issue here, maybe if it was in the middle of the summer and temps in the 90's. It's was cool this time of year.
@@MikeDayConcrete
LoL
You should put time-capsules in your 12 inch pours. Somebody in 1,000 years will get a nice chuckle out of that.
Will the extra thick concrete effect how well the radiant heat tubing works?
It will take a little longer to heat up to temp, but that's about it.
@@MikeDayConcrete I'd assume it would also hold it's heat a little longer too. Which is good
I hope you got the home owner to pay for the extra concrete and labor
I just had a customer get me the ok but later try to back out of the agreement to a similar situation
Well, that driver sure had a lot to say.
Ah Yep that's what I was a thinkin!
Great wire placement 😂
It would have been nice them to tell you that you needed the fishing waders instead of boots
Thanks for sharing keep up the hard work love the
Videos!!
Hamstrings more sore x2? Hoochie mama!
thats where a measuring tape comes in handy lol lol try it next job
Hi Mike. I've been binge watching your videos (and subscribed) and have picked up a lot of information from you and watching how you work, pour, finish, etc. you guys do great work.
I have a question for you, if you would be so kind.... I am building a small 3/4 underground pool (we found a room under our back yard from an old construction that still has solid walls on 3 sides) that is 5 meters long by 1.5 meters wide. The depth goes from 35 1/2 inches on the shallow side to 5 1/2 feet at the deep end. I have scoured the internet trying to find what grade of concrete to use, and found nothing that says "use this grade for pools", so decided that M20 would be sufficient with 4" rebar reinforcement. Is that overkill for the size of the pool, or am I on the right track? Thank you and keep up the greats videos!
That'll be good, I don't think it's overkill.
@@MikeDayConcrete Thank you. I guess I should have asked if M20 was necessary. The issue is the gravel ratio. We do not have easy access to our back yard as it's completely enclosed and we can't buy bagged gravel here (Mexico), so it is delivered loose and dumped in the front of the house and I would have to move it all to the back yard, which is no easy task. I'm currently using the gravel I get from separating the dirt from the gravel and rocks from digging out the area. Would a 1:1.5:2 mix work? And does the same mix apply to the walls? Thank you so much for your response :)
Sorry for all the questions. It just that we've been ripped off on various occasions and had work done where the contractors didn't use the quality of materials they should have (like the carport, where the roof, which is going to have a bedroom built on it, they only used 4 inch rebar instead of 6 and the roof started to sag in the center, so we had a have a steel support beam installed under it) and decided that I'll do the work on the pool and learn at the same time to save money and headaches, so I want to ensure I'm doing everything as best I can.
I do truly appreciate your advice and than you very much.
Reaching the upper limits of your boots! Look nice!
So close!
If I had to guess, the earthwork guy read the specs and saw a 6” pitch and just went with it, I think that’s why you have such a deep slab in the front, but yes, you’re completely right, 6” pitch on a garage slab is pretty ridiculous, another nice job Mike, when all that mass heats up that floor, it won’t cool down til spring!
Crazy they spec'd a resi garage with 6" slope. Even the homeowner said it was too much.
@@MikeDayConcrete I wonder if the crazy slope was in relation to that overhung slab into the basement? Maybe the designer wanted to be really sure any snow melt would not travel to the back wall and down into the basement? Weird design all around.
2big guys move faster than I imagined at first look.
Man, the added cost to heat that extra material is some shit. Homeowner should be piiiiiiiiiissed.
Pine needles are Gods fiberglass
Hey Mike. Happy new year. And all the best going forward.
I have a question. Can you tell us the prices from now on when you do your great work. On these different projects As you do the jobs? Thanks.
Prices? Of course not!
(1) it's the customer's confidential business
(2) next thing, some local cowboy will come along and undercut his quotes
I know you guys did your part, but sure seems like that grade issue should have been corrected? Just crazy for so many reasons and I could see you where thinking the same all the while you were pouring Mike. All the best in 2023!
The GC was notified and it was their call. We had the same problem on the house floor, it was 8" instead of 4.
Someone used a metric tape?.... Lol... That's nuts.
@@MikeDayConcrete Yep I thought that was the case.Keep on Keepin on!
@@MikeDayConcrete The GC’s brother must own the concrete company
Just wondering:
Who eats the cost for the additional
‘crete?
The GC.
*_"No way 3 guys can finish 21-yards by themselves"_* --- Then I watched a Mike Day video upload. ---
its only the top half inch that matters , or it will be tomorrow ,,
bet that site has a great view on a good day though.
Bet the owner brought differnet crews in and put a basement bunker under that garage slab. And the 'overhang' framing is actually concealing the entrance.
Is that a Darby somebody's using forehand Meg makes it a lot easier if you have the wrist for it use them on sidewalks and porches a lot
Why no pump?
At least no one lost a boot! Well, the owner can install a vehicle lift in the thick part, just sayn.
$180.00 a yard in KC MO right now. How much in your neighborhood?
$185 in STL.