Whuuuuuut? How could the character who was excited to finally get out of here and get on a boat to finally propose to their significant other and meet their child for the first time, being only 2 days away from retirement have died?
lil pepto bismol or I was making a tiny little joke my guy, I get he was saying that it doesn't take itself too seriously, it's just funny that he chose those words
It's especially odd when he talked unfavorably about Dragon Ball not a few seconds before when, if anything, it's even MORE comedic and less high art than JoJo.
Dying in Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be serious, they don't treat it like a character going away, they just treat it like "well he's gone for a month"
Buff Buck yeah it's not like they ever take it seriously in universe either, it's more of an emotional one, hell even when trunks gets one shotted by cell and vegeta is freaking out Krillin tells him " hey dude we can wish him back, chill" same with Goku after the cell saga, he's just dead but he doesn't want to come back, they could get him back wheeeeverrr
Also depend on the set of dragon balls they are using, the Earth dragon balls can bring people back to life but only once, the Namek ones can bring people back to life multiple times, so in dragon ball death is serious if it is your second time.
I disagree with Attack on Titan’s author being “shitty”. If you’ve gotten caught up it’s obvious he’s thought as least the main outline of the plot all the way through. Personally, while it might have been more interesting for Eren to have straight up died in the short run, it would have eventually turned into an anime walking dead. But with the direction that happened we ended up with a much more compelling story.
Kamina's death from Gurren Lagann was definitely impactful. I was actually depressed after he died and debated whether or not I should have kept watching the anime. I'm glad I did.
I thought it was impactful as well. Because, eventually, one of the two would not be together if things go way south (which it did), and who would most likely survive alone? Kamina. Simon? FUCK, no. Simon needed to grow a heart, a pair, and a will in order to survive as long as Kamina and not be such a pushover. THAT is when killing off a character is necessary, because despite our curiosity in seeing just what Kamina could pull off next if he survived, he's already got his shit together, unlike Simon. It would be pretty damn boring if we saw the rest of the show following a character who's fully grown already so early in the show.
Actually Kamina's even though had an impact on me, I was glad he died because he didn't seem level headed enough and at that point the Simon wasn't good either. At least it made Simon's character more likeable as we saw him overcome his trauma.
gamrage again that is because we got to know him and saw him from episode 1 up to the episode when he died, this just reminded us that for as great as the heroes can be, the villains are not pulling punches and if one manages to lose themselves, like the hot headed Kamina, death is ALL TOO WILLING to take you.
I respectfully disagree with a lot of the points you made, though it was interesting. The Death flag, where characters narrate their life before obviously dying, really needs to end though...
Akatsubasa people have to die in story's like AOT, GOT, Walking dead it's the genre of the story's they aren't supposed to be pretty, the war side of things is supposed to be realistic, it would feel fake and weak if characters didn't die, I agree about the death flag tho it makes it too obvious and predictable and that isn't suprising to the watcher and reader
Cliffe FC he did say the writer didn't really know what he was doing especially the moment he wrote that Eren could turn into a Titan... That was the moment that changed the entire tone of the story.
I disagree with you that Josuke's crazy diamond breaks tension. Because they still CAN die. We never feel bad about characters getting simply wounded. We don't lose anything, so emotionally we don't care. Heroes getting hurt just shows the enemy is strong. But limbs and lives we react to more because something was actually taken away from us as viewers. Josuke does fix the limbs thing, but death is still very possible. That was the point being established woth his grandad's death. In addition, in DiU there is always the question, CAN josuke manage to heal them?
Strange how people saw AOT like that. I always think that the deaths are just there to show the viewer that anyone can die and they aren't completely powerful. Makes it seem less like your standard shonen sometimes.
You kinda failed to give a GOOD example of a character death. Let me do it for you; Kamina from Gurren Lagann. He matches none of your criteria. A. He doesn't get an exposition dump right away and is paced out for him and everyone over the episodes. B. He doesn't have "I will die or turn evil" stamped on his forehead. C. He is effectively in contest for main character for the episodes he is alive. He's both the driving force behind the team, energetic and charming and the center of attention. D. Unlike other expendable meatbags you listed his usefulness was far from over, you actually cared for him and the other characters did as well; his lost affected them throughout the entire series(and the viewer feels it as well). He is a prime example of a character death done right. Impactful , sudden and leaves a obvious hole in the cast throughout the rest of the series.
Yeah, when I saw the title of this video, with the thumbnail, I was very confused. Probably just placed there for some clicks? It's a great example of a character death, one of the best I know. Your comment is very good.
Not liking the concept of a series does not mean its author is incompetent. "OH GOSH, HE RUINED ATTACK ON TITAN BY MAKING EREN TRANSFORM INTO A TITAN" If that didn't happen, it wouldn't have been Attack on Titan. It wouldn't have had any of the intrigue or tension in later arcs. The author does a fine job with the series on a functional story-telling level and respecting character death (Which is a bigger deal later on). I don't even really like Attack on Titan, but even I can understand that disliking the core concept of a show is just a sign that you should find a different show.
Akame ga kill manga ended a while back, it was still running when the anime came out tho. And although I prefer the manga end over the anime end they weren't THAT different
Also, disagree with the stuff about JoJo. (I know I have a jojo profile picture frick off) Like most of the fights in Diamond is Unbreakable are either completely separate from Josuke with different characters, have Josuke completely alone, or have Josuke at a distance where he can't heal his friends. So, I don't think his powers really take away any tension from the fights. And having a healing character pretty much becomes essential after part 3, anyways, with how deadly and complicated some of the enemies stands become.
The way I see it is. If they manage to get away or prolong the fight enough to where he can get to them they are fine. But you are right the main fights when josuke is alone are good
Carl's death gave me the opposite reaction. At the heart of the Walking Dead's story, you had a father raising his family in a zombie apocalypse. Without Carl that heart is gone. I don't see how the story could end any other way than in tragic pointlessness. So yeah, not watching it anymore.
I think that's the reason people are bored of the walking dead. Everytime they get to a point where they just don't know where to take the story they kill someone off, and then repeat the same old fucking story they used the last time. Find someplace they think is safe, get attacked by some rouge group/Bandits or zombies (In the case of season 2), fight them, fail, Move to new location they think is safe. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's so old and uninteresting because you know what's going to happen before it does. I think if they had stuck to the comics it would have lasted a lot longer. TellTales game's have a better story than the show does right now and it's sad.
I feel like Jojo's example was a miss. The whole series had a good bunch of characters dying and in the end of the first part the main Jojo even dies (I'm not even going to talk about future parts but believe me, they keep on with this). Jojo's part 4 is actually a subversion within a series that tends to kill off main characters by the end of its main arcs.
Ayyyyyy. To be honest though, she was supposed to die 60 chapters ago. She would have died in the anime already, had things gone according to the author's original plan, that's how long overdue her death was.
I have to admit, I don't exactly agree with killing off a character simply for the sake of letting said character go, at least when it comes to the meat (heh) of writing and why many people enjoy this trope in the first place. But it doesn't hurt to have that mindset when the time finally comes to kill off that elderly mentor in order to signify growth.
Cvit I disagree with u on aot. Yeah there some clunky writing at points but not as bad say akame ga kill. Akame ga kill is complete garbage both anime and manga.
I always hate the "eren should have died!!!11!11!!!" argument because its so dumb and Attack on titan would probably become another walking dead(just humans trying to survive and dying, which gets so boring). The inclusion of Eren being a shifter is what made Attack on Titan really interesting and exciting. It added mystery and excitement in the sense of "hey maybe humanity does have a shot at surviving". If you take away that, its just another "zombie" show where people die and there is no "end" in sight. thats boring and unoriginal.
Before the reveal of what happened to the world, I could've thought that it would've been fine for Eren to have died, but now I appreciate much more that things happened this way.
Temujin18S no it takes a massive MASSIVE turn that is really interesting but at the same time makes one of the most original and unique things about the manga / show completely irrelevant
Haha, the *If they show the backstory outta nowhere, they are going to die* is more than true. Take Walking Dead, Akame Ga Kill, or Attack on Titan and especially Naruto... They NEVER cared about person XY and suddenly explain the backstory of him. Or, in the case of Naruto *HEAVY* Plotarmor. Walking Dead sure is the worst example of this: A: The Usefulness of character XY Ran out B: He was a walking meatpack designed to die from the beginning C: Cheap ass Shock Value (ohmahgerd guys glenn did die, he didnt roll under the dumpster xdddd) And the Fanbase made themselves cringy yet again. As for JoJo, like i always say: JoJo takes a different path in every single Part. Maybe try Diamond is Unbreakable again, i did appreciate it way more after watching it again. Every Part has its own reasons to watch, and Yoshikage Kira and Bite Za Dusto is exactly that. It *DOES* take the Tension for Josuke being to heal anyone, but we can't pretend that JoJo does this in every Part. Jonathan Joestar died right in Part 1. Caesar Zeppeli, Iggy, Avdol, Kakyoin died in Part 2-3. Joseph became a senile Man. I think JoJo does have the perfect balance in having interesting Characters, but still dont giving them Plot Armor and Survival forever. I mean, killing Main Characters IS important, but you need to find a balance. Otherwise you find yourself killing off the only characters that made your show watchable.
I feel like lots of character death makes it hard to get into a piece of fiction. I feel like Supernatural is a good example of this. Almost everyone that isn't Sam or Dean dies and never gets revived. This makes it so you have literally no one else to get invested in. Obviously, this is ignoring how Supernatural has hugely jumped the shark to begin with, but yeah
I agree. I feel like if every/lots characters die then it just becomes a chore to watch. You don't want to watch it because you know the character you like is inevitably going to die, and probably die for no particular reason other than to make the main character get mad and go super saiyan for an episode.
Akaki wrote in a healing character because in past parts, injury was played off as little to nothing aside from the occasional cases like Kakyoin and Avdol. Avdol was suppose to die, then he brought him back because reasons. (there is a lot of youtube videos about this so you don't need top travel off site to find this) He added someone who could heal so that the next ep people wouldn't just be resting and healing, nor would they need to go to a hospital. people still died in Jojo's part 4. I don't see why you brought it up, maybe to add "Jojo's" to the tag to get more people to watch? either way, id be interested to hear what you liked more. Part 3 where injury didn't matter, or at least matter very little, or part 4, where he tried to at least add something to add sense to it.
Albedo Yuriev What's wrong with you liking it? Cause some people say it has a lot of story problems? If that's why, something doesn't have to be good for you to like it. A lot of things I like critics hated, but I found them entertaining or they spoke to me. Like what you like, don't worry 👍
Albedo Yuriev Alot of "critics" like to trash the show, using buss words and strawman examples. Lots of people overhype it for the wrong reasons and "critics" only talk about what's on the surface, rather than analyse things such as characters, themes and lore. It's a highly misunderstood series by alot of people, due to it's hype/hate.
I can see what you're saying, but I think you miss the point of some deaths. Not every death is about the person dying as much as it's about the situation they die in. For Example: In AoT the "meat bags" weren't meant to matter, but more so set the tone of the series. They were there to basically tell us that this world is grim and fucked up and that humanity has no chance. This is why Eren didnt need to die. When he returned as the Titan it created the idea that maybe humanity wasnt screwed. This is why it worked, because his escape from the jaws of death( pun intended) was the first true feeling of hope the series had provided and made the story much more enjoyable going forward. I also am going to defend DBZ here as well. Yes death is meaningless in DBZ, but again it's not so much about their deaths as it is about the story surrounding them. Giokos death at the beginning of the Saiyan saga is far mor pivotal than its given credit for. If he hadn't died we would arguably have never gotten good Piccolo and if not for him, then everyone can kiss the most beloved character in Gohan goodbye. Then if we look at the other Z fighters and their demise we come to Yamcha. Yes, his death is a meme, but think about the situation presented. Yamcha was young optimistic, he tried to be a true leader of his friends and was immediately cut down l, which set the tone. Then think about Chiaotzu and Tein. The fight was a hopeless battle where our heroes were doing nothing but stalling for times in Hope's to save the world. Chiaotzu seein no other option, sacrificed himself in an effort to hopefully defeat at least one of the enemies...to fail. Tein heartbroken at losing his best friend, put absolutely everything in his final attack, not only for revenge but in hope it did something anything just...to...fail. Then we come to Piccolo the enemy of Goku, now sacrificing himself to save Gokus son, because Gohan showed him that there are things far more important than himself. I could go on and on about how deaths in DBZ are far more important than they are given credit for, but I think with those three examples I've made my point. I'm not saying that some deaths arent pointless, but what I'm getting at is that sometimes the deaths that seem pointless are more about the actual situation and not the death itself, and can forward the plot in a meaningful way. Personally, I think some series are better as a result of death(Ace from One Peice, Ned in GoT, and Jason Todd in Batman).
I think Kutner's death was actually brilliantly pulled off in House. It's unexpected and crude, like most suicides tend to be. House, who usually has an excellent grasp on other people's attitudes and actions is caught completely by surprise. He couldn't cope with his death, even obsessing over it. It was a huge trigger to his mental decline and final arc of the 5th season.
DONT YOU TALK BAD ABOUT MY JOJO real talk: an insane regeneration ability is like standard fare for any jojo series. If they decided to make the fights more grounded the show would cease to be Bizarre and would be another typical battle shonen. Half of the fun of JOJO is watching the main characters get wreckt and come out on top in a creative manner. Dont take away half of the formula
You are ignoring some things. Character deaths in a story happens for 1. To move the plot 2. They are no longer needed in the plot. 3. To set a tone of the story. 4. Because the character cant survive anymore. 5. Shock Value 6. Character Development Number 1 is pretty simple, Glens death in the WD led to the Alexandria Group finally talking Negan seriously which eventually led to all out war. Number 2 is also pretty simple. Also in the case of WD would be Beth...i think that was her name when she died during that random ass group in that random ass hospital. Nothing really came from that moment and was incredibly poorly done. Number 3, you are obviously going to have people die in a zombie apocalypse. Number 4, when the character in question can no longer survive due to external and internal circumstances. "The world is only going to get thougher and if you cant change with it, then it will leave you behind." If the character in question kept surviving it can be seen as plot armor which again is poor writing. Number 5 is also prettt simple. Number 6, a character develops around another characters death. Edit: Attack on Titan Yeah that review on Attack on Titan is not even relevant as that isnt what the story is about. Could have Eren died and the story focus on the other characters learning to cope with his death and survive in this damned world? Yes, however that is not the story being told. A story could be done differently, obviously, and author choosing not to do so does not make it inherently bad. Edit: Dragon Ball Z What you are referring to is "Death is Cheap"
Attack on titan isn’t about the deaths at all, if you keep watching you will learn that there aren’t even good/bad guys in the show ( yes that includes the titans). The deaths aren’t to for shock they are for perspective. And once you learn more of what the titans are and where they come from I think your opinion on AOT will change.
at some point it starts getting annoying the eren should have died argument, it's like, we like your story, but you should have written a different story
I lost it at Yoko Taro. He's the perfect candidate to not try to bullshit his stories. -Unless he's getting paid to, the guy doesn't hide what he'd do for money-
The backstory-is-death trope is so common. I'm sick to death of it. "Oh, you're actually giving this guy some character development? Good, the cast needs something different. And I kinda like this character now, I want to see what's going to happen in the fut- oh." Now it's like. "Shit, he's getting character development. Time to stop caring, because don't look now, the Grim Reaper is tapping you on the shoulder." It's just -so- manipulative.
I perfectly agree. Killing off a character is not good on it's own. I hes/her death ment something for the story and for other characters than it can be good and fine.
Another defense i would pose for jojo part 4 is the fact that we are shown that kira has essentially the ability to instakill making him a particularly dangereus foe and thus making him seem like more of a threat but hey dats just me
Well stuff like AOT gives the world a realistic tone. It doesn’t matter who they were, they are still normal humans and there deaths bring a shock value towards the audience.
No if the character have nothing to offer, If I say "my cat died yesterday" are you going to feel shock by that? No, you probably say "My condolence" and move on with your day normally you didn't meet my cat, if a character have nothing to offer his died isn't tragic or shocking. P.S: My cat is stil alive I just use him as an example , that is for me not to use even better examples because I have them a lot actually. Can think about 4
DarkHeartTheEmo It isn't supposed to be tragic or shocking, it's about setting the tone and sending a message. Having a side charachter die in AOT is a reminder (specially on the first episodes) of how everyone is vulnerable against the creatures they're fighting and how only the strongest make it out alive. Sometimes being strong isn't enough and life is just unfair (look at Marco for example).
DarkHeartTheEmo If your cat died I would have to need some context. If you happened to be in a story, that "my cat died yesterday..." must have been followed by some sort of reaction you wanted to create, not just the death itself.
DarkHeartTheEmo I can actually think of two scenarios in which a cat dies without having been introduced properly but rather given a symbolic value (wich I'm not gonna cite since I would spoil the shows for you or anyone reading)
I disagree with the argument that eren should have stayed dead, at the time the entire series was anything too special, it was essentially just zombies in the form of giants as another comment pointed out , but eren not dying moved the plot forward and also gave humanity a way to fight back as at the rate they were going, they would have all been killed, and it also let the traitorous trio know who they needed to target, which would lead to rests of the scouts knowing that eren isn't the only one with that ability. While the beginning of the series did rely heavily on the pointless deaths, it didn't happen as much, especially in the uprising arc. Not to mention that it did give off a sense of dread, as having the main character " dead " made the audience believe that no one was safe ( at least for that short period of time ). While I don't think attack on titan is perfect by any means, it is definitely better than what the author originally planned out.
I would like to voice one criticism I have with your video: your argument is solid and I agree with the fact that death in a plot must have meaning and weight in order to have effective impact, but you didn't really exemplify any stories where death WAS handled properly with impact, except perhaps the Brian's Death arc on Family Guy (which I don't even want to count since it was done almost solely for shock value, although I admit hiding the way they brought him back in what would normally be considered a throwaway gag was more clever than I would've given them credit for otherwise). Just for next time use the essay style video like this, it would benefit your argument to include examples that meet your expectations of what character death should entail rather than simply ragging on some shows that did it wrong and calling it a day.
When the Levi Squad died on AOT I was truly disheartened. They had a clear future, even the one who bit his tongue. Maybe another trick to make a character likable is to make a clear future for them.
In the case of JoJos there was always someone who acts as a "healer" so whenever a character fights and the episode ends, they'll be healed right away for the next episode so they won't stay fucked up for the next few episodes cause they play major roles and major character interactions in battles. It's a show that focuses on fights for most of the time.
WoomyB it is going somewhere Eren is well developed and amazing, your point? I'm not seeing one, why don't you give up and read the manga to see the true greatness off Attack on Titan
You see kamina's death was how its done we were or at least I was so invested in that character the first time I watched it I thought he was the coolest guy ever and then when he died it was so sad but I do feel like they dragged his oldest out to long like if you're gonna make a character depressed in a show like that you need to go all out and make it to the point where they become so useless that someone else takes the lead for a decent amount of time or they are depressed for like half an episode which I mean gurren lagann did that almost perfectly really my only gripe was how long they complained about Kamina I understand he was a cool character and all and he was a brother and a lover and the coolest damn guy but seriously
I don't understand some points made by you in a video. Though I agree that killing of main characters in your show/movie doesn't make it better but is just another way to manipulate viewers' emotions...it's okay to fall for it? If my favorite character (old or new) would die I'd be sad..because I like their storyline or as you say relate to them. So being like "Oh well, he dead, ok" kind of reaction is a bit psychopathic? Are you okay, dude?
7:48 WOah...It's very Surprising how a dude like you can be *so oblivious* about WHY JONATHAN DIED. ANSWER: It wasn't just for shock value. (still, any death should cause some kind of shock) Jonathan's Death is there show HOw much this Character was willing to die, just if that grants his son's identity to still be a secret. and that's the reason, why Clark in the movie, (before finding his origins) always leaves after he saves someone because he KNOWS HOW MUCH HIS Secret identity Matters. His secret identity is the reason why he is not concern about his mother or other people he loves, because He Knows His enemies don't know The Superman has a human family. And you Care about Clark, You Care about Jonathan, and at first, it FEELS Horrible, cause you think it was a confusing or Meaningless dead, but then You realize it was just a Last Message From a Dad to a SON. "I made a mistake, However, my Son Needs to GROW." As I already mentioned, it plays in Clark's character. ♠ Thats why Clark started his journey. Its the reason WHY Clark was able to develop with calm without the CIA/FBI NEVER coming into place, cause he Knew How to Keep this side on himself as secret BECAUSE HE VALUED JONATHAN'S DEATH. *He believed that I needed to wait* --- *and when the Right day came, your shoulders would be able to bear the weight.* ♠
Isayama doesn't really know how to develop his characters. Or more appropriately doesn't know what to do with his characters. All he relies on is just shock factor to deepened the resolve for the main conflict of the show, he doesn't do nothing much other than that and he calls that character development. Well it is to be honest, it's not bad to write like that, you just need to go the extra mile and build on the personalities of each of the cast, changing how cast members act or adding more to what they are, resulting from that shock factor. But you don't see any of that, or rather what you only see is just a stronger resolve to the main conflict, a really bland way of handling things. Or for episode 4's case, a predictable asspull power up you could see from episode 1. But don't get me wrong, predictable asspuls isn't always bad, there is always exceptions out there you just have to handle it delicately. And I'm not saying AOT is "all" predictable, it's not. There was many moments in the series where it was greatly unpredictable. To be honest if they drop the whole titan shifter thing and just made it strictly humans versus titans and build it from there. Maybe.....adding the discovery of titan shifters much later on, and then the reveal of the war with Marley and have this titan shifter thing a completely newly discovered thing between them. Having twists here and there like changing the origin story of the titan shifters. Instead of having the Progenitor titan splitting her power with 9 other shifters, have a descendant to inherit all the power. Giving a better reason for Marley to be at war with Eldia. Like to take down an looming all power threat capable of toppling the world as they know it. Instead of being crazy racist radical fucks blaming their ancestors for a war the current generation never fought. Or something more strongly constructed, much better than what I said. I would love the story alot more. Other than that he's pretty good on what he does. Isayama is not a overall bad writer, he just has his bad points.
DsLrsy Eren, Armin, Jean, Ymir, Historia, Levi, Erwin and Reiner. Are all well developed characters. There aren't many series which develops more characters than that. They're very well realised and go through interresting internal struggles. Only ones lacking are Mikasa, Connie and Sasha. What are you reffering to specifically? The "asspull" you're reffering to was set up from the beginning. The colossal and armored being shifters. Eren waking up with flashbacks of his dad with a syringe and key around his neck. It was predictable but the series is very unpredictable in many other areas, which makes up for it as you sa.
DsLrsy Attack on Titan's themes heavely revolve around war and morallity. Had it remained humans vs titans, it would have remained black and white. Not expanding it's themes and lore. What would be better by introducing shifters later? We don't know yet how legit the story about the goddess is. There's been alot of controversy displayed althrough the series. Marley is at war with paradise to survive upcoming battles with other countries. The need the origin titan, in order to stand a chance. Taking down an almighty evil threath would be alot less interresting than between people fighting for survival. Attack on Titan has always been about war and what sacrefices are to be made and how far they'll go to survive. It goes from mindless evil beings to people with their own reasons and morallity.
So you think that the deaths in the first five episodes of attack on titan are the only reason people think that it's good and yet you think you would have a better story if Eren just died and the entire super natural war story was totally scrapped, you think it's somehow bad writing that the story managed to hide that facet of the story from you all the way until the big reveal. It's a lot like you're just hating something because it's popular and you don't actually follow the story.
But AoT does have some bad writting at times. Manga Spoilers: One death that really pissed me off was Ymir's. The way she was killed was very anti-climactic and lazy. Her screen time during the Clash of Titans Arc made her look pretty interesting but all off a sudden they just kill her off screen. There's also that whole "Serum Bowl" in chapter 84. Why would Levi off all people pick Armin instead of Erwin? It just felt like cheap plot armor. HUGE SPOILERS FROM CHAPTER 105 SPOILERS AHEAD. STOP HERE IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT YET This most recent chapter has probably one of the best handled deaths in the series. You may know that Sasha was supposed to die way back in the Clash of Titans Arc when she saves that little girl. She wasn't going to be able to release herself from the Titan after stabbing his eye. Basically one of the "meat puppets" mentioned in the video. But she didn't and we, the readers, got used to her as a comic relief character who would say silly stuff to ease a little bit the dark tone of the series. However, that doesn't change the fact that Isayama intend to kill her and so that happens in chapter 105. Eren 2.0 and Falco get aboard and Gabi shoots the rifle wounding Sasha and nearly killing Jean if Falco had not make her miss the shot. The following moments are heartbreaking. Connie and Jean, who had a little moment bonding with her just a few moments before, are now desperate to seal the wound. Mikasa and Armin also blast into the room right after Jean tells them of the incident. While Zeke talks, Connie enters the room and announces with tears on his eyes that Sasha has passed away. In the next panel we can see Armin and Mikasa crying over her dead body. Eren just stands there struggling to contend his own tears. Sasha was character relevant enough for the viewers to care about and her death is most likely going to impact some of them. Mainly Gabi and Falco who are now "captuted" by the "Devils of the Pardis". That's how you make a death matter. My one complain is that her last words were about food. I get why Isayama did that, but reading it again just makes the scene a little bit more silly than it should be.
shipu302 I doubt you read the attack on titan manga 1) Well as everyone else stated, it’s because Levi realized that Erwin looked to be at peace and decided that his own personal feelings got in the way of what was really important. There is another reason though, it’s subtle but it was there. Erwin had stopped Levi from injecting him for a reason. This was because Armin would be of more value to humanity than himsef. Why? Because Erwin knew Armin was genuinely fighting for humanity. Erwin was doing everything for himself. His mission to save humanity was not his priority and he knew that. Erwin knew that if Armin continued to live, Armin would continue to try to save humanity and would not be selfish like he had been. Plot armour had nothing to do with this 2) Her character arc/development was already wrapped up, and we all knew she was going going to die/be eaten after staying with Reiner/Bert (heck, even she knew her fate). I mean I guess you can make the argument that Isayama should have at least drawn her getting eaten, but still. 3) When creator Hajime Isayama first drew out the story of episode 27, Sasha was killed during her final stand against her hometown’s Titan. However, the artist changed his mind after editors pleaded with him to keep the heroine alive.
Yeah, who needs nuance? Speaking seriously now, he explained how we got attached to Eren in the first 4 episodes, and how his death would be impactful because there was an actual character behind it. Also, I love how you phrase it as "hiding" the supernatural rather than asspulling it out of nowhere.
Saying that "hurr durr levi should've picked erwin hurr durr" just means you don't understand what the story is about. The entire idea is that the new generation needs to undo the wrongs made by the past generations, take erwin's speech as an example of that. I don't mean to be rude, but it really pisses me off when people judge levi's decision as a bad one just because armin is a main character and therefore it MUST be plot armor, wich is actually completely false. Also, most of the brilliant and amazing strategic thing done in the manga were thought out by armin, not erwin.
I mean, you did use a main character's death (Eren) and a random character's death that will eventually be VERY important (Marco) to make up your point, so I don't think you watched or read the whole thing, but fine, it makes for a good point in your video
I get sad about the meat puppets because- well- in universe they're just people and not bags of flesh with faces. You're hoping they don't die because they've done nothing wrong and seeing them on the sidelines and having more cast for good guys somehow feels gratifying. When that's taken away it's saddening. That's how I see it anyways.
This is what we call shock factor. Casual audiences are very susceptible to it (I was too). All the shows you mentioned here used to be some of my favorites on my pleb days. Gurren laggan and JoJo end up breaking less dishes because of their "style over substance nature" thus being the shows I like the most on your list. and The Walking Dead will end the day the cast realize that the production team are bending their roles to repeat the formula with a new cast of characters. As for Attack on Titan...the tension went to shit when we realize there's an easier way to fight Titans with superpowers.I like your channel sir, you do have a good reasoning for good writing.(small grammar edit).
Mr Kill jr. the tension in AOT is insane, especially when they find out about other Titan shifters, the Orgins of the titans, and the uprising arc which is a human vs human arc.
TragicLight no there is no tension. Firstly erren was always and overpowered character even before his unexplained titan powers. Do t forget he was so good at 3-D slinging that he made a broken one work for 10seconds. Implying that the only way anything could ever happen to this guy is if he were really dumb. There is that rule of never bringing characters back from the dead more then once. Once that gerade is pulled you can’t do it again without everyone having to assume that they will just do it again. And aot did that in ep 4. Now whenever we see a named character die we have to assume that he will come back.
Frank West If he was overpowered without his Titan abilities then why is it that he only got his first kill as a human in episode 5 of season 2? You don’t know what you’re talking about. Eren was pathetic, he may have been in the top 10 of his class but he was far from strong as he wouldn’t have been eaten in his first mission.
Overpowered? Maybe compared to humans who can't turn into titans, but as a shifter, he was the less experienced and easily overpowered by the female, and later the armoured ans colossus titan.
Frank West how in the world was Eren overpowered even before his titan abilities? You do remember he got eaten pretty quickly, right? Sure he was great at using he 3D maneuver gear, but he hadn’t actually killed a titan with it, had he? Come on, dude. I didn’t even like the AOT show and I know half of what you said doesn’t make sense
So here’s a question. If there is a major character in a story that dies in the first episode but has strong after effects from that persons death, will it still be meaningless or would we have to learn that persons backstory too?
In the case of your Eren argument, I feel that's what Gurren Lagann succeeded when they killed Kamina. We liked him and how h inspired his friends to fight the beastmen. And his death sent Simon into a downward spiral of depression and self doubt. We saw how his death affected the others and the threat the beast men posed until Simon was able to move on and rise back up in his brothers place. That's how a character death should be handled.
I'm gonna disagree with your points about AoT. People take it as a show where anybody can die at any moment, and honestly, that isn't true (but this ain't a bad thing, cuz it FEELS like it is). Humanity as a whole gets slaughtered by the hundreds but our cast is for the most part fine because they consist of the dozen or so most capable people in the walls or fucking shifters; there's a reason why they're harder to kill. The "whoops Even wasn't dead" isn't a cop out, it's an establishment of tone and the introduction of the concept that all is not as it seems. While it would probably be a higher quality story if Isayama went deeper into the development of Eren's squad, it isn't bad writing. This is a story where humanity as a whole is losing and has no fucking idea how to fix it. The more they progress, the smaller the population gets, and the more they learn, the more confusing it becomes, and it's not like Isayama pulls these twists outta his ass or anything: they remain consistent throughout. While there is structure, I hesitate to call it a mystery because AoT does little to hint at what's actually going on, and I doubt the audience could piece anything together, but we're not meant to be able to. We are an observer meant to feel the hopeless struggle of humanity. Again, I agree with your video as a whole, and AoT would probably be better off if it treated its deaths as more than blank slates (with just enough humanity to be sympathetic) for people to project personality onto, just don't lump it in with shit like the walking dead, AoT doesn't reuse the same dramatic beats for the sake of shock value: everything has a purpose in the long run.
kamina's death was a good one, like erin, he was built up from the start, but his death is both permanent and a high impact moment, and his death is also treated as an obstacle, with simone not being able to get over it
I completely agree with what you've pointed out in the video. Another good example of this, would be the infinity war movie which I myself didn't watch as I already knew what was going to happen i.e the death of half the avengers and half earth's population by just following the comics, facts and previous movies. I think most of the time it comes down to a viewer or fan of a particular series/book/comic/movie to successfully predict the finale but pretty much the hype factor makes it not possible.
When it comes to the healing to JoJo, araki did that cause he wanted the ability to fuck up the protagonists more without having to constantly justify why they didn't die or just live horribly mutilated. I would have agreed with you that this kills the tension of the fights if he could bring you back to life. If you feel the way you do about the healing in JoJo do you also feel the same way with other series that feature characters with healing abilities?
Healing is typically pretty limited in fiction. Elven healing is powerful enough to drag Frodo back from the brink of death, but he carries the pain of that stab wound for the rest of his life, along with a few other changes. Its not really touched on in the movies, but remember that weird shadow world where Frodo saw the faces of the Nazgul? Frodo's existence is closer to that for the rest of his life. There are healing abilities in Yuyu Hakusho, yet Hiei's arm being damaged for a significant time is a (relatively minor) plot point. There's some tension when Yusuke is barely walking and is approached by a villain, despite Botan, a character with some proficiency in healing, literally walking next to him. Avatar: The Last Airbender features Katara, someone gifted at healing, but the tension can be maintained with consequences OTHER than physical injury for losing a fight. Subduing and capturing Aang, then keeping him imprisoned, buys DECADES of time for the Fire Nation to conquer the rest of the world unchecked.
SquallLionhart409 Most of the tension in JoJo is not really the physical injury but will our heroes be able to find out what ability their enemy is using, beat it and not die. Even though josuke has a heal all he can't bring back the dead and thus does not interfere with the tension established in all JoJo fights. Even in the parts before the healing was introduced there was almost never any lasting physical damage established besides someone losing a hand (and then getting a robot one). All the healing abilities you meantioned have in common with JoJo is that none of them are a cure all to everything.
When the character(s) that dies in Episode 9 of "Devilman Crybaby", it moves the main character, Akira Fudo, foward and the story forward, which is basically a big, dramatized retelling of multiple cases of a group people being discriminated, like Parasite, or Tokyo Ghoul. Even though in the manga, the earlier animes/ movies, and the new anime have the same character(s) die ,but are very different even though it was/were the same character(s). It still moves the story by giving Akira more of a motivation.
And in the Harry Potter BOOKS did anyone else notice that Cedric suddenly got a shot ton of page time. Where was that page time in the last three books huh?
Wait... Then what's a death with good writing and how do we get it? I can't really see any other reason for why death occurs in stories. -create shock -create tension -hold the viewers attention -dramatic effect -show the story's seriousness
In the case of Eren, I actually found his powers added a lot to the story as they were unpredictable and often uncontrollable so it wasn't like they had an easy peasy solution to all this. Not like he went all Titan and sealed up the hole all by himself and whatnot. In the case of Eren's squadmates, we at least were lead to believe that things wouldn't immediately go to shit and that they'd get picked off right out the gate. These tricks worked when it came to the story's first release but as the show went on, well...
For the most part I agree with your criticism. A lot of writers think that character deaths are a cool and edgy thing to do. I also feel like you missing some of the point of killing off characters. There are emotions tied to seeing another being disappear, even temporarily. Death is a really good motivator for not just characters, but even the audience. I also feel like your condescending attitude towards people who like these pieces hurts your argument. People aren’t likely to be convinced if your treating them like idiots for the things they like. I’m all for condescending outlooks and snobbish personas for critics, but something about your delivery of it ruins the kinda of charisma the snob critic character can have. I think it has to do with the fact that you think there is a “High art” as if art has levels and a spectrum of what is objectively good and bad. Honestly tho I hate most of the shows you used as examples. So I definitely agree with your points, but I think you missing a crucial understanding of art in order to be good a critic. Art is emotional, not logical.
To be fair, the stakes in DragonBall are actually a lot more dire than people give the series credit for, especially if you watch/read all the way from the beginning. -The first character to ever be revived was Bora, and before him, the possibility of using Shenron's wishes to bring somebody back from the dead never really crossed anyone's mind. To a lesser extent, there was also the issue of Goku journeying to get back his grandfather's four-star ball in the first place, which he would've lost for at least another year had he not been clever enough to jump up and grab it as soon as the balls scattered. -In the next arc, King Piccolo not only takes the wish for himself but actually KILLS Shenron immediately afterwards. It's only afterwards that Goku discovers the dragon itself could be revived so long as the creator of the Dragon Balls is there. -When Goku died after beating Raditz, Piccolo actually did downplay the whole thing. This turned out to be a mistake on his part, as it led to the Saiyans' arrival and Goku staying dead so he can train in the spiritual realm. -Piccolo getting killed by Nappa meant that there are no more Dragon Balls. While everyone remembers Freeza and Super Saiyan Goku and all that, it's worth keeping in mind that the whole point of the Namek arc was so they could revive their friends and get their own set of Dragon Balls back (plus, because Earth's balls can't revive anyone twice, it was initially assumed that Chaozu, and later Krillin, were dead for good). Also worth noting that they only realized Namek was a solution by paying close attention to the Saiyans' dialogue, and even then, actually getting there proved to be an obstacle. -Trunks came from a future that no longer had balls. Any time someone dies in his world, they stay dead. -Though Goku did recruit Dende soon afterwards (with the added convenience of Dende not being a fighter who constantly puts himself in danger), Piccolo merging with Kami resulted in a brief absence of the Dragon Balls. This meant the stakes were raised during their early bouts with Cell. Also, the balls still couldn't revive anyone twice and Namek was still too difficult to reach, so Goku stayed dead for seven years. -I would concede that the balls are getting to be too convenient of a crutch by the Buu saga, but even then, there were still a good number of complications. Bulma summoning Shenron too early and putting the next wish on hold for a few months, Buu actually succeeding in nuking the earth (and Dende would've went along with it had Goku not teleported him to safety, which is worth keeping in mind with any Dragon Ball villain that threatens the planet), and Goku still remained dead until the old Kai revealed he could trade their lives. Vegeta was also at risk, since he was too neutral for Heaven or Hell and instead would've had his soul completely cleansed and reborn, and had his good side not won out in the end, it's suggested that he would've been exempt from the wish that brought back everyone "except the bad guys". Amusingly enough, Toriyama initially wrote this arc with the intent of bringing back the light-hearted humor that was more prominent earlier in the series (which really shows when you look at stuff like the Great Saiyaman, Mr. Satan, and most the stuff involving Trunks and Goten), so the fact that some dramatic tension still managed to arise in spite of this really speaks volumes. -Say what you will about GT, but it ultimately showed that there would be consequences for relying too much on the Dragon Balls. Super doesn't have the same tension, but as with the Buu saga, it was a lot more humorous in general (and even so, the destruction of the entire universe was a constant risk). Of course, after a while, it does become obvious that the series won't kill off anyone for good no matter what (few shounen manga in general are that ballsy, especially when it comes to main characters). Nevertheless, context does matter, which is why I'm willing to say that death isn't quite the minor convenience that everyone sees it as being in Dragon Ball. From the points of views of the characters, at least, it really does seem like their friends and loved one are being killed off for good almost every time that it happens.
Blade Master Over drive lol way too hard? It looks like it took him all of 30 seconds to come up with it and type it. Sorry being witty takes so much effort for you, that must suck.
This video threw a new light on Plot Armor for me. I shouldn't complain about it as much while there are shows out there that kill of everyone for cheap shock value.
Just would like to add to the character useless/ making other characters move is also some sort of punishing. I mean they aren't that important for the story but it adds to the doings of another character (ex. Attack on Titan - Sasha in the the latest chapter) She wasn't important but she could have lived aswell.
The characters that are created I a series for the sole purpose of dying to motivate the character, I call them tragedy targets, a named I based on plot armor.
THANK YOU, you litterally did EXACTLY what i was griping about, back up your statements with a little more persepctive and clarity, it makes your point soo muchs stronger and i HIGHLY reccomend you continue that for futur videos like thse, Great content, keept it up!
I guess I still think your eren point is a little just wrong due to that fact the whole point of that scene is subversion, you think the story is going exactly the way u described the in the video. No hope against the titan, characters dying left n right and then boom huge plot twist and eren comes back and adds this new power and mystery to the world that allows the story to be driven foward, the auther litterally knew the entire time what he was gonna do. Thats why there is the basement, and the injection b4 we see eren die, the auther KNOWS what hes doing, you just may not like the direction Also u say alot of people freakout in cry when meat puppets die, it probably not cause theh are attachted to them, but like attack on titan has thag wtf wow factor of ppl eating ppl that can make some people cringe. There js a death of a meat puppet in S2, i didnt care abkut her, but the way she screams for her dad is haunting and impactful
Whilst killing off characters that people care about can produce heavy emotional moments and create tension knowing that yes, maincharacters can die and your favourite might be next, when it's done wantonly it's a problem. You have to remember what you're actually doing - you're getting rid of characters that people like and are invested in. It's generally good to have characters in your show that people like and are invested in. Obviously characters that exist just to die are non-consequential because noone cares and it doesn't do any of the good things that killing off a proper character does. Just leaves you with less characters, which can be a good thing, and possibly allows for another character to develop IF we believe and feel that THEY had a strong connection to each other.
I agree with the point on Attack on Titan and Eren's death, but I think the writing greatly improves. Post-timeskip in the manga, it's almost a completely different series. Not to say it doesn't have a couple of ass pulls, but the point still stands.
If you haven't, you should do a full video about stories that suffer from having no permanence. Where things can never die or lose anything permanently. (like how in Dragon Ball they can just revive constantly with dragon balls, so there is no real depth to anyone being injured or killed.)
Folks, let's all remember that it's not because a person voiced their opinion on RUclips and put some effort into editing it that they're right, or that there aren't other equally "impactful" people that just so happen to have diverging opinions concerning the matter at hand
For my money death is mostly useful to help remind readers/viewers of the idea that there are actual stakes. To use Dragon Ball as a a great example of this in the original series only a small handful of characters ever die, and mostly those are used to emphasize how great a threat Piccolo is, which makes Z onward frustrating because it is almost always clear that even if someone dies they can easily be brought back through the Dragon Balls. Another good case is Maes Hughes, who is around long enough and does enough in either version of "Fullmetal Alchemist" that seeing him get shot genuinely hurts because it shows that the villains are willing to simply murder someone if they are even potentially a threat to their plan regardless of how prominent they have been up to that point. What does not work is simply killing off characters for the heck of it or outright introducing a character for no other reason than to have them die in an episode or two.
I feel like in Arrow's case. if Oliver actually perma died and his son took over. That would have been a really good use of character flashbacks. All those scenes ending with him thinking back on his back, bleeding out.
Yo yo yo yo - hold up....Marco was Jean's friend and by extension he felt like part of the group - not like the real close type but he wasn't NPC material. It didn't tug any heart strings here but I still was like 'Shit, they got Marco...' - now the reason why it didn't sting much is because you keep thinking - well at least it's not one of the other noteable ones so you thank your lucky stars - already thoroughly terrified seeing the main protag get scarfed down like it was nothing - you don't put it out of your mind that any of them could get bodied...
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
>watches JoJo Part 2
>knows Caesar is going to die when they give him a bunch of backstory
>still cries when Caesar died
Whuuuuuut? How could the character who was excited to finally get out of here and get on a boat to finally propose to their significant other and meet their child for the first time, being only 2 days away from retirement have died?
..hey you look familiar..
Aren't you-...
This video is how people defend fairy tail
Just Some Guy with a Mustache Hi again
I like your name...mustaches are cool
Wait a minutes. I see you around everywhere
I love videos where i don't completely agree with the examples, but that definitely get the point across!
great vid ma dude!
>JoJo isn't high art
>Is literally displayed in the Louvre, along with all the other high art
>What
The Funniest Valentine you completely missed his point lol
It really is
lil pepto bismol or I was making a tiny little joke my guy, I get he was saying that it doesn't take itself too seriously, it's just funny that he chose those words
It's especially odd when he talked unfavorably about Dragon Ball not a few seconds before when, if anything, it's even MORE comedic and less high art than JoJo.
Reuploading your video doesnt mean youtube wont kill it
House of Champs he said add the start thed was not the reason
Reuploading a video all about following through on character deaths. Fascinating.
Dying in Dragon Ball isn't supposed to be serious, they don't treat it like a character going away, they just treat it like "well he's gone for a month"
Buff Buck yeah it's not like they ever take it seriously in universe either, it's more of an emotional one, hell even when trunks gets one shotted by cell and vegeta is freaking out Krillin tells him " hey dude we can wish him back, chill" same with Goku after the cell saga, he's just dead but he doesn't want to come back, they could get him back wheeeeverrr
Well some deaths are a bit more tragic, but yeah you're right
Except both times krillin died
Also depend on the set of dragon balls they are using, the Earth dragon balls can bring people back to life but only once, the Namek ones can bring people back to life multiple times, so in dragon ball death is serious if it is your second time.
an ounce more serious maybe... Theres some Nameks just sitting around making dragon balls right?
I disagree with Attack on Titan’s author being “shitty”. If you’ve gotten caught up it’s obvious he’s thought as least the main outline of the plot all the way through. Personally, while it might have been more interesting for Eren to have straight up died in the short run, it would have eventually turned into an anime walking dead. But with the direction that happened we ended up with a much more compelling story.
Kamina's death from Gurren Lagann was definitely impactful. I was actually depressed after he died and debated whether or not I should have kept watching the anime. I'm glad I did.
I thought it was impactful as well. Because, eventually, one of the two would not be together if things go way south (which it did), and who would most likely survive alone? Kamina. Simon? FUCK, no. Simon needed to grow a heart, a pair, and a will in order to survive as long as Kamina and not be such a pushover.
THAT is when killing off a character is necessary, because despite our curiosity in seeing just what Kamina could pull off next if he survived, he's already got his shit together, unlike Simon. It would be pretty damn boring if we saw the rest of the show following a character who's fully grown already so early in the show.
Kamina was great but I still keep watching the serie, although after his died the serie seem less good, I still like it but something was missing
kamina was a mere fucking reference of a better piece of fiction from the 60's, just saying. Stuff in ttgl shouldn't be taken that heavily
Actually Kamina's even though had an impact on me, I was glad he died because he didn't seem level headed enough and at that point the Simon wasn't good either. At least it made Simon's character more likeable as we saw him overcome his trauma.
gamrage again that is because we got to know him and saw him from episode 1 up to the episode when he died, this just reminded us that for as great as the heroes can be, the villains are not pulling punches and if one manages to lose themselves, like the hot headed Kamina, death is ALL TOO WILLING to take you.
I respectfully disagree with a lot of the points you made, though it was interesting. The Death flag, where characters narrate their life before obviously dying, really needs to end though...
Akatsubasa people have to die in story's like AOT, GOT, Walking dead it's the genre of the story's they aren't supposed to be pretty, the war side of things is supposed to be realistic, it would feel fake and weak if characters didn't die, I agree about the death flag tho it makes it too obvious and predictable and that isn't suprising to the watcher and reader
Cliffe FC he did say the writer didn't really know what he was doing especially the moment he wrote that Eren could turn into a Titan... That was the moment that changed the entire tone of the story.
I disagree with you that Josuke's crazy diamond breaks tension. Because they still CAN die. We never feel bad about characters getting simply wounded. We don't lose anything, so emotionally we don't care. Heroes getting hurt just shows the enemy is strong. But limbs and lives we react to more because something was actually taken away from us as viewers. Josuke does fix the limbs thing, but death is still very possible. That was the point being established woth his grandad's death.
In addition, in DiU there is always the question, CAN josuke manage to heal them?
Strange how people saw AOT like that. I always think that the deaths are just there to show the viewer that anyone can die and they aren't completely powerful. Makes it seem less like your standard shonen sometimes.
You kinda failed to give a GOOD example of a character death. Let me do it for you; Kamina from Gurren Lagann. He matches none of your criteria.
A. He doesn't get an exposition dump right away and is paced out for him and everyone over the episodes.
B. He doesn't have "I will die or turn evil" stamped on his forehead.
C. He is effectively in contest for main character for the episodes he is alive. He's both the driving force behind the team, energetic and charming and the center of attention.
D. Unlike other expendable meatbags you listed his usefulness was far from over, you actually cared for him and the other characters did as well; his lost affected them throughout the entire series(and the viewer feels it as well).
He is a prime example of a character death done right. Impactful , sudden and leaves a obvious hole in the cast throughout the rest of the series.
Yeah, when I saw the title of this video, with the thumbnail, I was very confused. Probably just placed there for some clicks?
It's a great example of a character death, one of the best I know. Your comment is very good.
Not liking the concept of a series does not mean its author is incompetent. "OH GOSH, HE RUINED ATTACK ON TITAN BY MAKING EREN TRANSFORM INTO A TITAN"
If that didn't happen, it wouldn't have been Attack on Titan. It wouldn't have had any of the intrigue or tension in later arcs. The author does a fine job with the series on a functional story-telling level and respecting character death (Which is a bigger deal later on).
I don't even really like Attack on Titan, but even I can understand that disliking the core concept of a show is just a sign that you should find a different show.
Akame ga kill was basically the edgier berserk they even have a potato girl and it got a shitty adaptation
the manga was way better
Martin Maksimova "the manga was way better" where have i heard that before...
It doesn't make the story bad either. Good writing makes the story. Characters surviving or dying as a result of good writing happens all the time.
Akame ga kill manga ended a while back, it was still running when the anime came out tho. And although I prefer the manga end over the anime end they weren't THAT different
Still a bad series tbh
+Jewell Her and Tatsumi actually had sex before he turned into a dragon.
Sean Turner they had 2 more kids. So either Dragon Tatsumi has a tiny af dick or Mine can really take it.
I think the writting in AOT is actually pretty great, read the manga
Gshiin hating snk is hip now don't judge and snk has flaws as much as great moments so..
Gshiin aot is great
No the writing is absolutely abysmal
Also, disagree with the stuff about JoJo. (I know I have a jojo profile picture frick off)
Like most of the fights in Diamond is Unbreakable are either completely separate from Josuke with different characters, have Josuke completely alone, or have Josuke at a distance where he can't heal his friends. So, I don't think his powers really take away any tension from the fights.
And having a healing character pretty much becomes essential after part 3, anyways, with how deadly and complicated some of the enemies stands become.
The way I see it is. If they manage to get away or prolong the fight enough to where he can get to them they are fine. But you are right the main fights when josuke is alone are good
part 4 is also full of fights where the stakes aren't life or death anyway.
Doppioヴィネガー
Spoiler Alert part 6
Stone Ocean: Everyone dies
Carl's death gave me the opposite reaction. At the heart of the Walking Dead's story, you had a father raising his family in a zombie apocalypse. Without Carl that heart is gone. I don't see how the story could end any other way than in tragic pointlessness. So yeah, not watching it anymore.
I think that's the reason people are bored of the walking dead. Everytime they get to a point where they just don't know where to take the story they kill someone off, and then repeat the same old fucking story they used the last time. Find someplace they think is safe, get attacked by some rouge group/Bandits or zombies (In the case of season 2), fight them, fail, Move to new location they think is safe. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's so old and uninteresting because you know what's going to happen before it does. I think if they had stuck to the comics it would have lasted a lot longer. TellTales game's have a better story than the show does right now and it's sad.
I feel like Jojo's example was a miss. The whole series had a good bunch of characters dying and in the end of the first part the main Jojo even dies (I'm not even going to talk about future parts but believe me, they keep on with this). Jojo's part 4 is actually a subversion within a series that tends to kill off main characters by the end of its main arcs.
Her last words were meat....
Had this recommended to me like 5 minutes after finishing that chapter. How topical
Ayyyyyy. To be honest though, she was supposed to die 60 chapters ago. She would have died in the anime already, had things gone according to the author's original plan, that's how long overdue her death was.
I have to admit, I don't exactly agree with killing off a character simply for the sake of letting said character go, at least when it comes to the meat (heh) of writing and why many people enjoy this trope in the first place. But it doesn't hurt to have that mindset when the time finally comes to kill off that elderly mentor in order to signify growth.
*were
Cvit I disagree with u on aot. Yeah there some clunky writing at points but not as bad say akame ga kill. Akame ga kill is complete garbage both anime and manga.
I always hate the "eren should have died!!!11!11!!!" argument because its so dumb and Attack on titan would probably become another walking dead(just humans trying to survive and dying, which gets so boring). The inclusion of Eren being a shifter is what made Attack on Titan really interesting and exciting. It added mystery and excitement in the sense of "hey maybe humanity does have a shot at surviving". If you take away that, its just another "zombie" show where people die and there is no "end" in sight. thats boring and unoriginal.
Before the reveal of what happened to the world, I could've thought that it would've been fine for Eren to have died, but now I appreciate much more that things happened this way.
Well I mean the series has turned into complete trash now
WetMIlk AOT turned into generic battle shounen by having Eren survive and turn into a titan, sure it may work at first eventually it will lose steam.
Temujin18S no it takes a massive MASSIVE turn that is really interesting but at the same time makes one of the most original and unique things about the manga / show completely irrelevant
novablue201 I see where your coming from
Haha, the *If they show the backstory outta nowhere, they are going to die* is more than true.
Take Walking Dead, Akame Ga Kill, or Attack on Titan and especially Naruto...
They NEVER cared about person XY and suddenly explain the backstory of him.
Or, in the case of Naruto *HEAVY* Plotarmor.
Walking Dead sure is the worst example of this:
A: The Usefulness of character XY Ran out
B: He was a walking meatpack designed to die from the beginning
C: Cheap ass Shock Value (ohmahgerd guys glenn did die, he didnt roll under the dumpster xdddd)
And the Fanbase made themselves cringy yet again.
As for JoJo, like i always say: JoJo takes a different path in every single Part.
Maybe try Diamond is Unbreakable again, i did appreciate it way more after watching it again. Every Part has its own reasons to watch, and Yoshikage Kira and Bite Za Dusto is exactly that.
It *DOES* take the Tension for Josuke being to heal anyone, but we can't pretend that JoJo does this in every Part.
Jonathan Joestar died right in Part 1.
Caesar Zeppeli, Iggy, Avdol, Kakyoin died in Part 2-3.
Joseph became a senile Man. I think JoJo does have the perfect balance in having interesting Characters, but still dont giving them Plot Armor and Survival forever.
I mean, killing Main Characters IS important, but you need to find a balance. Otherwise you find yourself killing off the only characters that made your show watchable.
It works sometimes near the start of an anime as it's hard to tell what's setup for future importance and what's setup for imminent death.
JoJo World Order When they showed Caesars backstory in part 2 I already knew my boy was about to die.
I feel like lots of character death makes it hard to get into a piece of fiction.
I feel like Supernatural is a good example of this. Almost everyone that isn't Sam or Dean dies and never gets revived. This makes it so you have literally no one else to get invested in.
Obviously, this is ignoring how Supernatural has hugely jumped the shark to begin with, but yeah
I agree. I feel like if every/lots characters die then it just becomes a chore to watch. You don't want to watch it because you know the character you like is inevitably going to die, and probably die for no particular reason other than to make the main character get mad and go super saiyan for an episode.
Akaki wrote in a healing character because in past parts, injury was played off as little to nothing aside from the occasional cases like Kakyoin and Avdol. Avdol was suppose to die, then he brought him back because reasons. (there is a lot of youtube videos about this so you don't need top travel off site to find this) He added someone who could heal so that the next ep people wouldn't just be resting and healing, nor would they need to go to a hospital. people still died in Jojo's part 4. I don't see why you brought it up, maybe to add "Jojo's" to the tag to get more people to watch? either way, id be interested to hear what you liked more. Part 3 where injury didn't matter, or at least matter very little, or part 4, where he tried to at least add something to add sense to it.
Well, had part 3 not asspulled Avdol back to life, I think he'd prefer part 3.
Peasham you're probably right lol. I wasn't the biggest fan of that choice either.
This video is what got me into watching Attack on Titan. Now it's one of my favorite anime / manga series.
Goddamnit.
Albedo Yuriev
What's wrong with you liking it? Cause some people say it has a lot of story problems? If that's why, something doesn't have to be good for you to like it. A lot of things I like critics hated, but I found them entertaining or they spoke to me. Like what you like, don't worry 👍
That's pretty hilarious.
Season 1 good, season 2 shit
DarkHeartTheEmo season 2 was sick
Albedo Yuriev Alot of "critics" like to trash the show, using buss words and strawman examples. Lots of people overhype it for the wrong reasons and "critics" only talk about what's on the surface, rather than analyse things such as characters, themes and lore. It's a highly misunderstood series by alot of people, due to it's hype/hate.
TL DW: 'Popular shows are dumb, people who watch them are dumb, I am smart.'
I can see what you're saying, but I think you miss the point of some deaths. Not every death is about the person dying as much as it's about the situation they die in. For Example:
In AoT the "meat bags" weren't meant to matter, but more so set the tone of the series. They were there to basically tell us that this world is grim and fucked up and that humanity has no chance. This is why Eren didnt need to die. When he returned as the Titan it created the idea that maybe humanity wasnt screwed. This is why it worked, because his escape from the jaws of death( pun intended) was the first true feeling of hope the series had provided and made the story much more enjoyable going forward.
I also am going to defend DBZ here as well. Yes death is meaningless in DBZ, but again it's not so much about their deaths as it is about the story surrounding them. Giokos death at the beginning of the Saiyan saga is far mor pivotal than its given credit for. If he hadn't died we would arguably have never gotten good Piccolo and if not for him, then everyone can kiss the most beloved character in Gohan goodbye. Then if we look at the other Z fighters and their demise we come to Yamcha. Yes, his death is a meme, but think about the situation presented. Yamcha was young optimistic, he tried to be a true leader of his friends and was immediately cut down l, which set the tone. Then think about Chiaotzu and Tein. The fight was a hopeless battle where our heroes were doing nothing but stalling for times in Hope's to save the world. Chiaotzu seein no other option, sacrificed himself in an effort to hopefully defeat at least one of the enemies...to fail. Tein heartbroken at losing his best friend, put absolutely everything in his final attack, not only for revenge but in hope it did something anything just...to...fail.
Then we come to Piccolo the enemy of Goku, now sacrificing himself to save Gokus son, because Gohan showed him that there are things far more important than himself. I could go on and on about how deaths in DBZ are far more important than they are given credit for, but I think with those three examples I've made my point.
I'm not saying that some deaths arent pointless, but what I'm getting at is that sometimes the deaths that seem pointless are more about the actual situation and not the death itself, and can forward the plot in a meaningful way. Personally, I think some series are better as a result of death(Ace from One Peice, Ned in GoT, and Jason Todd in Batman).
Deleting your video does not make your video better
Broom Films stealing a comment doesn't make your life better
ShogunSkull Onigiri stealing a reply to a comment doesn’t make your life better
Broom Films 😄🔫
*cough* game of thrones *cough*
Farhad Nor he didn’t choose game of thrones because at least seasons 1-4 does it well
But yeah for real though
I think Kutner's death was actually brilliantly pulled off in House. It's unexpected and crude, like most suicides tend to be. House, who usually has an excellent grasp on other people's attitudes and actions is caught completely by surprise. He couldn't cope with his death, even obsessing over it. It was a huge trigger to his mental decline and final arc of the 5th season.
Certainly pulled off more elegantly than the end of season seven.
*Drops the **-hairbursh-** Mic*
DONT YOU TALK BAD ABOUT MY JOJO
real talk: an insane regeneration ability is like standard fare for any jojo series. If they decided to make the fights more grounded the show would cease to be Bizarre and would be another typical battle shonen. Half of the fun of JOJO is watching the main characters get wreckt and come out on top in a creative manner. Dont take away half of the formula
this man knows the truth
Unless you are a dog. RIP Dogs of JJBA.
If it's necessary and a staple, it's not creative
I like how you prove to me you can still be civilised even if you are fanboying/fangirling
reasly dutchmans We already got Jojo without its bizarre and its fucking OVA. Its freaking sucks except that Final Battle
can you upload this video every day
1:30 Man of culture
Gonna have to disagree with you at that My Hero Academia clip.
Mina Ashida is clearly best girl.
You are ignoring some things. Character deaths in a story happens for
1. To move the plot
2. They are no longer needed in the plot.
3. To set a tone of the story.
4. Because the character cant survive anymore.
5. Shock Value
6. Character Development
Number 1 is pretty simple, Glens death in the WD led to the Alexandria Group finally talking Negan seriously which eventually led to all out war.
Number 2 is also pretty simple. Also in the case of WD would be Beth...i think that was her name when she died during that random ass group in that random ass hospital. Nothing really came from that moment and was incredibly poorly done.
Number 3, you are obviously going to have people die in a zombie apocalypse.
Number 4, when the character in question can no longer survive due to external and internal circumstances. "The world is only going to get thougher and if you cant change with it, then it will leave you behind." If the character in question kept surviving it can be seen as plot armor which again is poor writing.
Number 5 is also prettt simple.
Number 6, a character develops around another characters death.
Edit: Attack on Titan
Yeah that review on Attack on Titan is not even relevant as that isnt what the story is about. Could have Eren died and the story focus on the other characters learning to cope with his death and survive in this damned world? Yes, however that is not the story being told. A story could be done differently, obviously, and author choosing not to do so does not make it inherently bad.
Edit: Dragon Ball Z
What you are referring to is "Death is Cheap"
Attack on titan isn’t about the deaths at all, if you keep watching you will learn that there aren’t even good/bad guys in the show ( yes that includes the titans). The deaths aren’t to for shock they are for perspective. And once you learn more of what the titans are and where they come from I think your opinion on AOT will change.
Now, if only any of that was established, or even thought up, before the gratuitous deaths
at some point it starts getting annoying the eren should have died argument, it's like, we like your story, but you should have written a different story
JoJo deaths are very good though. They hurt because you are experiencing the journey WITH them and you feel like they're unstoppable. Until....
I lost it at Yoko Taro.
He's the perfect candidate to not try to bullshit his stories.
-Unless he's getting paid to, the guy doesn't hide what he'd do for money-
The backstory-is-death trope is so common. I'm sick to death of it.
"Oh, you're actually giving this guy some character development? Good, the cast needs something different. And I kinda like this character now, I want to see what's going to happen in the fut- oh."
Now it's like.
"Shit, he's getting character development. Time to stop caring, because don't look now, the Grim Reaper is tapping you on the shoulder."
It's just -so- manipulative.
I perfectly agree.
Killing off a character is not good on it's own. I hes/her death ment something for the story and for other characters than it can be good and fine.
8:12 "They make me seem smarter than I actually am" You said it yourself 😂😂😂
Another defense i would pose for jojo part 4 is the fact that we are shown that kira has essentially the ability to instakill making him a particularly dangereus foe and thus making him seem like more of a threat but hey dats just me
Well stuff like AOT gives the world a realistic tone. It doesn’t matter who they were, they are still normal humans and there deaths bring a shock value towards the audience.
No if the character have nothing to offer, If I say "my cat died yesterday" are you going to feel shock by that? No, you probably say "My condolence" and move on with your day normally you didn't meet my cat, if a character have nothing to offer his died isn't tragic or shocking.
P.S: My cat is stil alive I just use him as an example , that is for me not to use even better examples because I have them a lot actually. Can think about 4
DarkHeartTheEmo It isn't supposed to be tragic or shocking, it's about setting the tone and sending a message. Having a side charachter die in AOT is a reminder (specially on the first episodes) of how everyone is vulnerable against the creatures they're fighting and how only the strongest make it out alive. Sometimes being strong isn't enough and life is just unfair (look at Marco for example).
DarkHeartTheEmo If your cat died I would have to need some context. If you happened to be in a story, that "my cat died yesterday..." must have been followed by some sort of reaction you wanted to create, not just the death itself.
DarkHeartTheEmo I'm not saying AOT is perfect though, it's far from that, but I can't agree with what's being said about it...
DarkHeartTheEmo I can actually think of two scenarios in which a cat dies without having been introduced properly but rather given a symbolic value (wich I'm not gonna cite since I would spoil the shows for you or anyone reading)
I disagree with the argument that eren should have stayed dead, at the time the entire series was anything too special, it was essentially just zombies in the form of giants as another comment pointed out , but eren not dying moved the plot forward and also gave humanity a way to fight back as at the rate they were going, they would have all been killed, and it also let the traitorous trio know who they needed to target, which would lead to rests of the scouts knowing that eren isn't the only one with that ability. While the beginning of the series did rely heavily on the pointless deaths, it didn't happen as much, especially in the uprising arc. Not to mention that it did give off a sense of dread, as having the main character " dead " made the audience believe that no one was safe ( at least for that short period of time ). While I don't think attack on titan is perfect by any means, it is definitely better than what the author originally planned out.
I would like to voice one criticism I have with your video: your argument is solid and I agree with the fact that death in a plot must have meaning and weight in order to have effective impact, but you didn't really exemplify any stories where death WAS handled properly with impact, except perhaps the Brian's Death arc on Family Guy (which I don't even want to count since it was done almost solely for shock value, although I admit hiding the way they brought him back in what would normally be considered a throwaway gag was more clever than I would've given them credit for otherwise).
Just for next time use the essay style video like this, it would benefit your argument to include examples that meet your expectations of what character death should entail rather than simply ragging on some shows that did it wrong and calling it a day.
When the Levi Squad died on AOT I was truly disheartened. They had a clear future, even the one who bit his tongue. Maybe another trick to make a character likable is to make a clear future for them.
In the case of JoJos there was always someone who acts as a "healer" so whenever a character fights and the episode ends, they'll be healed right away for the next episode so they won't stay fucked up for the next few episodes cause they play major roles and major character interactions in battles. It's a show that focuses on fights for most of the time.
While I agree with what your saying but I don't think Attack on Titan is as bad as you say.
Tyler Love but here's the thing...
It is
NOOB SAIBOT nope
WoomyB sure
WoomyB it is going somewhere Eren is well developed and amazing, your point? I'm not seeing one, why don't you give up and read the manga to see the true greatness off Attack on Titan
WoomyB Word of advice, keep reading
You see kamina's death was how its done we were or at least I was so invested in that character the first time I watched it I thought he was the coolest guy ever and then when he died it was so sad but I do feel like they dragged his oldest out to long like if you're gonna make a character depressed in a show like that you need to go all out and make it to the point where they become so useless that someone else takes the lead for a decent amount of time or they are depressed for like half an episode which I mean gurren lagann did that almost perfectly really my only gripe was how long they complained about Kamina I understand he was a cool character and all and he was a brother and a lover and the coolest damn guy but seriously
I don't understand some points made by you in a video. Though I agree that killing of main characters in your show/movie doesn't make it better but is just another way to manipulate viewers' emotions...it's okay to fall for it? If my favorite character (old or new) would die I'd be sad..because I like their storyline or as you say relate to them. So being like "Oh well, he dead, ok" kind of reaction is a bit psychopathic? Are you okay, dude?
I'm surprised that you left out George R.R Martin and his wheel of death for Game of Thrones
7:48 WOah...It's very Surprising how a dude like you can be *so oblivious* about WHY JONATHAN DIED.
ANSWER: It wasn't just for shock value. (still, any death should cause some kind of shock)
Jonathan's Death is there show HOw much this Character was willing to die, just if that grants his son's identity to still be a secret.
and that's the reason, why Clark in the movie, (before finding his origins) always leaves after he saves someone because he KNOWS HOW MUCH HIS Secret identity Matters. His secret identity is the reason why he is not concern about his mother or other people he loves, because He Knows His enemies don't know The Superman has a human family.
And you Care about Clark, You Care about Jonathan, and at first, it FEELS Horrible, cause you think it was a confusing or Meaningless dead, but then You realize it was just a Last Message From a Dad to a SON. "I made a mistake, However, my Son Needs to GROW." As I already mentioned, it plays in Clark's character. ♠
Thats why Clark started his journey. Its the reason WHY Clark was able to develop with calm without the CIA/FBI NEVER coming into place, cause he Knew How to Keep this side on himself as secret BECAUSE HE VALUED JONATHAN'S DEATH.
*He believed that I needed to wait* --- *and when the Right day came, your shoulders would be able to bear the weight.* ♠
Still dont get why Isayama is a bad writer.
Isayama doesn't really know how to develop his characters. Or more appropriately doesn't know what to do with his characters. All he relies on is just shock factor to deepened the resolve for the main conflict of the show, he doesn't do nothing much other than that and he calls that character development. Well it is to be honest, it's not bad to write like that, you just need to go the extra mile and build on the personalities of each of the cast, changing how cast members act or adding more to what they are, resulting from that shock factor. But you don't see any of that, or rather what you only see is just a stronger resolve to the main conflict, a really bland way of handling things. Or for episode 4's case, a predictable asspull power up you could see from episode 1. But don't get me wrong, predictable asspuls isn't always bad, there is always exceptions out there you just have to handle it delicately.
And I'm not saying AOT is "all" predictable, it's not. There was many moments in the series where it was greatly unpredictable. To be honest if they drop the whole titan shifter thing and just made it strictly humans versus titans and build it from there. Maybe.....adding the discovery of titan shifters much later on, and then the reveal of the war with Marley and have this titan shifter thing a completely newly discovered thing between them. Having twists here and there like changing the origin story of the titan shifters. Instead of having the Progenitor titan splitting her power with 9 other shifters, have a descendant to inherit all the power. Giving a better reason for Marley to be at war with Eldia. Like to take down an looming all power threat capable of toppling the world as they know it. Instead of being crazy racist radical fucks blaming their ancestors for a war the current generation never fought. Or something more strongly constructed, much better than what I said. I would love the story alot more. Other than that he's pretty good on what he does.
Isayama is not a overall bad writer, he just has his bad points.
DsLrsy Eren, Armin, Jean, Ymir, Historia, Levi, Erwin and Reiner. Are all well developed characters. There aren't many series which develops more characters than that. They're very well realised and go through interresting internal struggles. Only ones lacking are Mikasa, Connie and Sasha. What are you reffering to specifically?
The "asspull" you're reffering to was set up from the beginning. The colossal and armored being shifters. Eren waking up with flashbacks of his dad with a syringe and key around his neck. It was predictable but the series is very unpredictable in many other areas, which makes up for it as you sa.
DsLrsy Attack on Titan's themes heavely revolve around war and morallity. Had it remained humans vs titans, it would have remained black and white. Not expanding it's themes and lore.
What would be better by introducing shifters later?
We don't know yet how legit the story about the goddess is. There's been alot of controversy displayed althrough the series.
Marley is at war with paradise to survive upcoming battles with other countries. The need the origin titan, in order to stand a chance. Taking down an almighty evil threath would be alot less interresting than between people fighting for survival.
Attack on Titan has always been about war and what sacrefices are to be made and how far they'll go to survive. It goes from mindless evil beings to people with their own reasons and morallity.
What about when Araki kicked of Jojo by killing off Jojo and then proceeded to touch you in the feelys by killing Avdol Kakyoin and Iggy
So you think that the deaths in the first five episodes of attack on titan are the only reason people think that it's good
and yet you think you would have a better story if Eren just died and the entire super natural war story was totally scrapped, you think it's somehow bad writing that the story managed to hide that facet of the story from you all the way until the big reveal.
It's a lot like you're just hating something because it's popular and you don't actually follow the story.
But AoT does have some bad writting at times.
Manga Spoilers:
One death that really pissed me off was Ymir's. The way she was killed was very anti-climactic and lazy. Her screen time during the Clash of Titans Arc made her look pretty interesting but all off a sudden they just kill her off screen.
There's also that whole "Serum Bowl" in chapter 84. Why would Levi off all people pick Armin instead of Erwin? It just felt like cheap plot armor.
HUGE SPOILERS FROM CHAPTER 105 SPOILERS AHEAD. STOP HERE IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT YET
This most recent chapter has probably one of the best handled deaths in the series. You may know that Sasha was supposed to die way back in the Clash of Titans Arc when she saves that little girl. She wasn't going to be able to release herself from the Titan after stabbing his eye. Basically one of the "meat puppets" mentioned in the video. But she didn't and we, the readers, got used to her as a comic relief character who would say silly stuff to ease a little bit the dark tone of the series.
However, that doesn't change the fact that Isayama intend to kill her and so that happens in chapter 105. Eren 2.0 and Falco get aboard and Gabi shoots the rifle wounding Sasha and nearly killing Jean if Falco had not make her miss the shot. The following moments are heartbreaking. Connie and Jean, who had a little moment bonding with her just a few moments before, are now desperate to seal the wound. Mikasa and Armin also blast into the room right after Jean tells them of the incident. While Zeke talks, Connie enters the room and announces with tears on his eyes that Sasha has passed away. In the next panel we can see Armin and Mikasa crying over her dead body. Eren just stands there struggling to contend his own tears.
Sasha was character relevant enough for the viewers to care about and her death is most likely going to impact some of them. Mainly Gabi and Falco who are now "captuted" by the "Devils of the Pardis". That's how you make a death matter. My one complain is that her last words were about food. I get why Isayama did that, but reading it again just makes the scene a little bit more silly than it should be.
shipu302
I doubt you read the attack on titan manga
1) Well as everyone else stated, it’s because Levi realized that Erwin looked to be at peace and decided that his own personal feelings got in the way of what was really important.
There is another reason though, it’s subtle but it was there. Erwin had stopped Levi from injecting him for a reason. This was because Armin would be of more value to humanity than himsef. Why? Because Erwin knew Armin was genuinely fighting for humanity. Erwin was doing everything for himself. His mission to save humanity was not his priority and he knew that. Erwin knew that if Armin continued to live, Armin would continue to try to save humanity and would not be selfish like he had been.
Plot armour had nothing to do with this
2) Her character arc/development was already wrapped up, and we all knew she was going going to die/be eaten after staying with Reiner/Bert (heck, even she knew her fate).
I mean I guess you can make the argument that Isayama should have at least drawn her getting eaten, but still.
3) When creator Hajime Isayama first drew out the story of episode 27, Sasha was killed during her final stand against her hometown’s Titan. However, the artist changed his mind after editors pleaded with him to keep the heroine alive.
Yeah, who needs nuance?
Speaking seriously now, he explained how we got attached to Eren in the first 4 episodes, and how his death would be impactful because there was an actual character behind it.
Also, I love how you phrase it as "hiding" the supernatural rather than asspulling it out of nowhere.
Saying that "hurr durr levi should've picked erwin hurr durr" just means you don't understand what the story is about. The entire idea is that the new generation needs to undo the wrongs made by the past generations, take erwin's speech as an example of that. I don't mean to be rude, but it really pisses me off when people judge levi's decision as a bad one just because armin is a main character and therefore it MUST be plot armor, wich is actually completely false. Also, most of the brilliant and amazing strategic thing done in the manga were thought out by armin, not erwin.
Dominic Proctor he s just triggered because Sasha s dead
I mean, you did use a main character's death (Eren) and a random character's death that will eventually be VERY important (Marco) to make up your point, so I don't think you watched or read the whole thing, but fine, it makes for a good point in your video
I get sad about the meat puppets because- well- in universe they're just people and not bags of flesh with faces. You're hoping they don't die because they've done nothing wrong and seeing them on the sidelines and having more cast for good guys somehow feels gratifying. When that's taken away it's saddening. That's how I see it anyways.
This is what we call shock factor. Casual audiences are very susceptible to it (I was too). All the shows you mentioned here used to be some of my favorites on my pleb days. Gurren laggan and JoJo end up breaking less dishes because of their "style over substance nature" thus being the shows I like the most on your list. and The Walking Dead will end the day the cast realize that the production team are bending their roles to repeat the formula with a new cast of characters. As for Attack on Titan...the tension went to shit when we realize there's an easier way to fight Titans with superpowers.I like your channel sir, you do have a good reasoning for good writing.(small grammar edit).
Mr Kill jr. the tension in AOT is insane, especially when they find out about other Titan shifters, the Orgins of the titans, and the uprising arc which is a human vs human arc.
TragicLight no there is no tension. Firstly erren was always and overpowered character even before his unexplained titan powers. Do t forget he was so good at 3-D slinging that he made a broken one work for 10seconds. Implying that the only way anything could ever happen to this guy is if he were really dumb. There is that rule of never bringing characters back from the dead more then once. Once that gerade is pulled you can’t do it again without everyone having to assume that they will just do it again. And aot did that in ep 4. Now whenever we see a named character die we have to assume that he will come back.
Frank West If he was overpowered without his Titan abilities then why is it that he only got his first kill as a human in episode 5 of season 2? You don’t know what you’re talking about. Eren was pathetic, he may have been in the top 10 of his class but he was far from strong as he wouldn’t have been eaten in his first mission.
Overpowered? Maybe compared to humans who can't turn into titans, but as a shifter, he was the less experienced and easily overpowered by the female, and later the armoured ans colossus titan.
Frank West how in the world was Eren overpowered even before his titan abilities? You do remember he got eaten pretty quickly, right? Sure he was great at using he 3D maneuver gear, but he hadn’t actually killed a titan with it, had he? Come on, dude. I didn’t even like the AOT show and I know half of what you said doesn’t make sense
So here’s a question. If there is a major character in a story that dies in the first episode but has strong after effects from that persons death, will it still be meaningless or would we have to learn that persons backstory too?
In the case of your Eren argument, I feel that's what Gurren Lagann succeeded when they killed Kamina. We liked him and how h inspired his friends to fight the beastmen. And his death sent Simon into a downward spiral of depression and self doubt. We saw how his death affected the others and the threat the beast men posed until Simon was able to move on and rise back up in his brothers place. That's how a character death should be handled.
I'm gonna disagree with your points about AoT. People take it as a show where anybody can die at any moment, and honestly, that isn't true (but this ain't a bad thing, cuz it FEELS like it is). Humanity as a whole gets slaughtered by the hundreds but our cast is for the most part fine because they consist of the dozen or so most capable people in the walls or fucking shifters; there's a reason why they're harder to kill. The "whoops Even wasn't dead" isn't a cop out, it's an establishment of tone and the introduction of the concept that all is not as it seems. While it would probably be a higher quality story if Isayama went deeper into the development of Eren's squad, it isn't bad writing. This is a story where humanity as a whole is losing and has no fucking idea how to fix it. The more they progress, the smaller the population gets, and the more they learn, the more confusing it becomes, and it's not like Isayama pulls these twists outta his ass or anything: they remain consistent throughout. While there is structure, I hesitate to call it a mystery because AoT does little to hint at what's actually going on, and I doubt the audience could piece anything together, but we're not meant to be able to. We are an observer meant to feel the hopeless struggle of humanity.
Again, I agree with your video as a whole, and AoT would probably be better off if it treated its deaths as more than blank slates (with just enough humanity to be sympathetic) for people to project personality onto, just don't lump it in with shit like the walking dead, AoT doesn't reuse the same dramatic beats for the sake of shock value: everything has a purpose in the long run.
i hope you read the manga because people do died not alot but they do died recent chapters
kamina's death was a good one, like erin, he was built up from the start, but his death is both permanent and a high impact moment, and his death is also treated as an obstacle, with simone not being able to get over it
Eh i disagree as far as the aot comments were made , the writing is good and the deaths were helpful to the storyline .
In response, I can only add a prime example of how not to do a character death to your evidence. Everyone say it with me: ROMAN TORCHWICK.
iammighty1 he was never meant to be a big player he was always gonna be small time crook
Who the fuck is that
I completely agree with what you've pointed out in the video. Another good example of this, would be the infinity war movie which I myself didn't watch as I already knew what was going to happen i.e the death of half the avengers and half earth's population by just following the comics, facts and previous movies. I think most of the time it comes down to a viewer or fan of a particular series/book/comic/movie to successfully predict the finale but pretty much the hype factor makes it not possible.
When it comes to the healing to JoJo, araki did that cause he wanted the ability to fuck up the protagonists more without having to constantly justify why they didn't die or just live horribly mutilated. I would have agreed with you that this kills the tension of the fights if he could bring you back to life. If you feel the way you do about the healing in JoJo do you also feel the same way with other series that feature characters with healing abilities?
Healing is typically pretty limited in fiction. Elven healing is powerful enough to drag Frodo back from the brink of death, but he carries the pain of that stab wound for the rest of his life, along with a few other changes. Its not really touched on in the movies, but remember that weird shadow world where Frodo saw the faces of the Nazgul? Frodo's existence is closer to that for the rest of his life. There are healing abilities in Yuyu Hakusho, yet Hiei's arm being damaged for a significant time is a (relatively minor) plot point. There's some tension when Yusuke is barely walking and is approached by a villain, despite Botan, a character with some proficiency in healing, literally walking next to him. Avatar: The Last Airbender features Katara, someone gifted at healing, but the tension can be maintained with consequences OTHER than physical injury for losing a fight. Subduing and capturing Aang, then keeping him imprisoned, buys DECADES of time for the Fire Nation to conquer the rest of the world unchecked.
SquallLionhart409 Most of the tension in JoJo is not really the physical injury but will our heroes be able to find out what ability their enemy is using, beat it and not die. Even though josuke has a heal all he can't bring back the dead and thus does not interfere with the tension established in all JoJo fights. Even in the parts before the healing was introduced there was almost never any lasting physical damage established besides someone losing a hand (and then getting a robot one). All the healing abilities you meantioned have in common with JoJo is that none of them are a cure all to everything.
Tbh whenever it showed Marco's dead body I was like "Wait who was that again?"
When the character(s) that dies in Episode 9 of "Devilman Crybaby", it moves the main character, Akira Fudo, foward and the story forward, which is basically a big, dramatized retelling of multiple cases of a group people being discriminated, like Parasite, or Tokyo Ghoul. Even though in the manga, the earlier animes/ movies, and the new anime have the same character(s) die ,but are very different even though it was/were the same character(s). It still moves the story by giving Akira more of a motivation.
Big, dramatized retelling?
You realise Devilman's ending came way before Parasyte which came way before Tokyo Ghoul, yeah?
You're wrong about Attack on Titan, the deaths are meant to establish the tone of the world, which is survival of the fittest.
TheAutistWhisperer and the fittest are those with the strongest plot armor?:p
And in the Harry Potter BOOKS did anyone else notice that Cedric suddenly got a shot ton of page time. Where was that page time in the last three books huh?
This guy sounds like Eraserhead from My Hero Academia. I love it.
Marco was not even a full character. He was Half.
Wait... Then what's a death with good writing and how do we get it?
I can't really see any other reason for why death occurs in stories.
-create shock
-create tension
-hold the viewers attention
-dramatic effect
-show the story's seriousness
Only reason why still watch walking dead is because i want to see if they do it like the comics or not..
In the case of Eren, I actually found his powers added a lot to the story as they were unpredictable and often uncontrollable so it wasn't like they had an easy peasy solution to all this. Not like he went all Titan and sealed up the hole all by himself and whatnot.
In the case of Eren's squadmates, we at least were lead to believe that things wouldn't immediately go to shit and that they'd get picked off right out the gate. These tricks worked when it came to the story's first release but as the show went on, well...
matt0044 Not really made into generic shounen battle manga, but it's entertaining though I can't lie
For the most part I agree with your criticism. A lot of writers think that character deaths are a cool and edgy thing to do.
I also feel like you missing some of the point of killing off characters. There are emotions tied to seeing another being disappear, even temporarily. Death is a really good motivator for not just characters, but even the audience.
I also feel like your condescending attitude towards people who like these pieces hurts your argument. People aren’t likely to be convinced if your treating them like idiots for the things they like. I’m all for condescending outlooks and snobbish personas for critics, but something about your delivery of it ruins the kinda of charisma the snob critic character can have. I think it has to do with the fact that you think there is a “High art” as if art has levels and a spectrum of what is objectively good and bad.
Honestly tho I hate most of the shows you used as examples. So I definitely agree with your points, but I think you missing a crucial understanding of art in order to be good a critic. Art is emotional, not logical.
Moral of the story: The Walking Dead is a dumpster fire.
Momo is best girl!! Finally someone else agrees with me!
To be fair, the stakes in DragonBall are actually a lot more dire than people give the series credit for, especially if you watch/read all the way from the beginning.
-The first character to ever be revived was Bora, and before him, the possibility of using Shenron's wishes to bring somebody back from the dead never really crossed anyone's mind. To a lesser extent, there was also the issue of Goku journeying to get back his grandfather's four-star ball in the first place, which he would've lost for at least another year had he not been clever enough to jump up and grab it as soon as the balls scattered.
-In the next arc, King Piccolo not only takes the wish for himself but actually KILLS Shenron immediately afterwards. It's only afterwards that Goku discovers the dragon itself could be revived so long as the creator of the Dragon Balls is there.
-When Goku died after beating Raditz, Piccolo actually did downplay the whole thing. This turned out to be a mistake on his part, as it led to the Saiyans' arrival and Goku staying dead so he can train in the spiritual realm.
-Piccolo getting killed by Nappa meant that there are no more Dragon Balls. While everyone remembers Freeza and Super Saiyan Goku and all that, it's worth keeping in mind that the whole point of the Namek arc was so they could revive their friends and get their own set of Dragon Balls back (plus, because Earth's balls can't revive anyone twice, it was initially assumed that Chaozu, and later Krillin, were dead for good). Also worth noting that they only realized Namek was a solution by paying close attention to the Saiyans' dialogue, and even then, actually getting there proved to be an obstacle.
-Trunks came from a future that no longer had balls. Any time someone dies in his world, they stay dead.
-Though Goku did recruit Dende soon afterwards (with the added convenience of Dende not being a fighter who constantly puts himself in danger), Piccolo merging with Kami resulted in a brief absence of the Dragon Balls. This meant the stakes were raised during their early bouts with Cell. Also, the balls still couldn't revive anyone twice and Namek was still too difficult to reach, so Goku stayed dead for seven years.
-I would concede that the balls are getting to be too convenient of a crutch by the Buu saga, but even then, there were still a good number of complications. Bulma summoning Shenron too early and putting the next wish on hold for a few months, Buu actually succeeding in nuking the earth (and Dende would've went along with it had Goku not teleported him to safety, which is worth keeping in mind with any Dragon Ball villain that threatens the planet), and Goku still remained dead until the old Kai revealed he could trade their lives. Vegeta was also at risk, since he was too neutral for Heaven or Hell and instead would've had his soul completely cleansed and reborn, and had his good side not won out in the end, it's suggested that he would've been exempt from the wish that brought back everyone "except the bad guys". Amusingly enough, Toriyama initially wrote this arc with the intent of bringing back the light-hearted humor that was more prominent earlier in the series (which really shows when you look at stuff like the Great Saiyaman, Mr. Satan, and most the stuff involving Trunks and Goten), so the fact that some dramatic tension still managed to arise in spite of this really speaks volumes.
-Say what you will about GT, but it ultimately showed that there would be consequences for relying too much on the Dragon Balls. Super doesn't have the same tension, but as with the Buu saga, it was a lot more humorous in general (and even so, the destruction of the entire universe was a constant risk).
Of course, after a while, it does become obvious that the series won't kill off anyone for good no matter what (few shounen manga in general are that ballsy, especially when it comes to main characters). Nevertheless, context does matter, which is why I'm willing to say that death isn't quite the minor convenience that everyone sees it as being in Dragon Ball. From the points of views of the characters, at least, it really does seem like their friends and loved one are being killed off for good almost every time that it happens.
1:31 Finally! Someone with SOME REAL FUCKING GOOD TASTE!
Magdros nah mina/uraraka better
ALL HAIL, Yako Taro
Uploading your videos twice doesnt make them good
U trying to be a savage
Failure Artist yeah cause this comment is trying way to hard to be "smart" and "edgey"
Blade Master Over drive lol way too hard? It looks like it took him all of 30 seconds to come up with it and type it. Sorry being witty takes so much effort for you, that must suck.
Yeah. Once is just enough, the video was good the first time it was uploaded.
MasterOfMelons uh wat?
Akame ga Kill comes to mind.
Good time as any to bring up Keima's rant about killing off characters for shock value.
This video threw a new light on Plot Armor for me. I shouldn't complain about it as much while there are shows out there that kill of everyone for cheap shock value.
Just would like to add to the character useless/ making other characters move is also some sort of punishing. I mean they aren't that important for the story but it adds to the doings of another character (ex. Attack on Titan - Sasha in the the latest chapter)
She wasn't important but she could have lived aswell.
The characters that are created I a series for the sole purpose of dying to motivate the character, I call them tragedy targets, a named I based on plot armor.
THANK YOU, you litterally did EXACTLY what i was griping about, back up your statements with a little more persepctive and clarity, it makes your point soo muchs stronger and i HIGHLY reccomend you continue that for futur videos like thse,
Great content, keept it up!
I guess I still think your eren point is a little just wrong due to that fact the whole point of that scene is subversion, you think the story is going exactly the way u described the in the video. No hope against the titan, characters dying left n right and then boom huge plot twist and eren comes back and adds this new power and mystery to the world that allows the story to be driven foward, the auther litterally knew the entire time what he was gonna do. Thats why there is the basement, and the injection b4 we see eren die, the auther KNOWS what hes doing, you just may not like the direction
Also u say alot of people freakout in cry when meat puppets die, it probably not cause theh are attachted to them, but like attack on titan has thag wtf wow factor of ppl eating ppl that can make some people cringe.
There js a death of a meat puppet in S2, i didnt care abkut her, but the way she screams for her dad is haunting and impactful
Whilst killing off characters that people care about can produce heavy emotional moments and create tension knowing that yes, maincharacters can die and your favourite might be next, when it's done wantonly it's a problem. You have to remember what you're actually doing - you're getting rid of characters that people like and are invested in. It's generally good to have characters in your show that people like and are invested in. Obviously characters that exist just to die are non-consequential because noone cares and it doesn't do any of the good things that killing off a proper character does. Just leaves you with less characters, which can be a good thing, and possibly allows for another character to develop IF we believe and feel that THEY had a strong connection to each other.
The extra bits were a very nice addition. I'm glad you went to the trouble.
Well, this sure is edgy lol
I agree with the point on Attack on Titan and Eren's death, but I think the writing greatly improves. Post-timeskip in the manga, it's almost a completely different series. Not to say it doesn't have a couple of ass pulls, but the point still stands.
If you haven't, you should do a full video about stories that suffer from having no permanence. Where things can never die or lose anything permanently. (like how in Dragon Ball they can just revive constantly with dragon balls, so there is no real depth to anyone being injured or killed.)
Folks, let's all remember that it's not because a person voiced their opinion on RUclips and put some effort into editing it that they're right, or that there aren't other equally "impactful" people that just so happen to have diverging opinions concerning the matter at hand
For my money death is mostly useful to help remind readers/viewers of the idea that there are actual stakes. To use Dragon Ball as a a great example of this in the original series only a small handful of characters ever die, and mostly those are used to emphasize how great a threat Piccolo is, which makes Z onward frustrating because it is almost always clear that even if someone dies they can easily be brought back through the Dragon Balls. Another good case is Maes Hughes, who is around long enough and does enough in either version of "Fullmetal Alchemist" that seeing him get shot genuinely hurts because it shows that the villains are willing to simply murder someone if they are even potentially a threat to their plan regardless of how prominent they have been up to that point.
What does not work is simply killing off characters for the heck of it or outright introducing a character for no other reason than to have them die in an episode or two.
I feel like in Arrow's case. if Oliver actually perma died and his son took over. That would have been a really good use of character flashbacks. All those scenes ending with him thinking back on his back, bleeding out.
Had to immediatly think of "Akame ga Kill" when I saw the title, lmao
Yo yo yo yo - hold up....Marco was Jean's friend and by extension he felt like part of the group - not like the real close type but he wasn't NPC material. It didn't tug any heart strings here but I still was like 'Shit, they got Marco...' - now the reason why it didn't sting much is because you keep thinking - well at least it's not one of the other noteable ones so you thank your lucky stars - already thoroughly terrified seeing the main protag get scarfed down like it was nothing - you don't put it out of your mind that any of them could get bodied...