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Honesty (Is Autistic Honesty Different?) Autism & Relationships 5
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
- Autism seems to shape the way we see concepts of honesty & truth. Autistic eyes often see the way people lie to each other in ways they don't even realise. How does this affect the relationships we have with people who don't see the deception all around us?
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autistamatic.com
#Actually Autistic #AllAutistics #AskingAutistics #Autism
Part 1: Dealing with Diagnosis
• Dealing with Diagnosis...
Part 2: "You've Changed"
• Does Autism Diagnosis ...
Part 3: "Mind Reading" - Theory of Mind
• "Mind Reading" - (Theo...
Part 4: "Face Value" (Expressions & Flat Affect)
• "Face Value" (Expressi...
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Yes, I did enjoy that, thank you. Can anybody else 'feel' when they're being lied to? The cognitive dissonance literally shuts down my brain - most uncomfortable and really quite dangerous.
I hope somebody else responds to you because I've heard this many times. I've theorised with others that it may be because our attention is directed away from the signals most people are trying to control when they lie, such as eye contact, voice modulation & nervous movements, so we are picking up signals and incongruities others usually miss. The sense of "being lied to" (and being confirmed later) when others are convinced of a speaker's sincerity is often spoken of. I've met a few autists who get called "human lie detectors" by those close to them😉
@@Autistamatic this is very good to know. I have said it for years and it's confirmation for me that I should trust it.
Wow. This is so comforting to read
Absolutely.
I used to be very naiive and trusting, almost incapable of detecting dishonesty. But, after being lied to so much by my peers as a child and teenager, I have developed a keen sense for lying. Although it might be too keen, the false positive rate is unacceptably high.
When people lie/ are dishonest, I loose my respect/ cannot trust them anymore. Something breaks deep inside me. It takes a long time to recover from this feeling of disappointment and I need to know why they acted this way, confronting them, but usually they seem to be silly cowards, who normalize or deny this behaviour. These elicits in me the need to isolate for a long time.
i feel the same. as ive gotten older its become so much harder to trust people because of this. i react like you too.
1. If you make a statement that is measurably untrue, then it is false. That a statement is false doesn't necessarily mean that it is dishonest. A statement is dishonest when you assert a statement as true or correct while knowing it is false.
2. An honest mistake is not a lie since the giver of what turns out to be inaccurate information has no intention to deceive while delivering it. In such a situation, it is more appropriate to say that the receiver of the inaccurate information was misinformed.
That is pretty much a perfect description. Very nuanced.
I makes me so sad when people lie to me or I’m accused of being dishonest. I cannot lie. Even as a joke. My face changes, I start uncontrollably laughing so hard I start crying. I have an immediate powerful urge to say I lied and say the accurate information. And I just feel so bad. As a kid, I lied in order to avoid physical punishment before, but late at night, I could be heard saying what actually happened when I should’ve been heard sleeping. I usually just said the truth despite the punishment.
Regarding white lies… my Zen teacher talks about the difference between "affirmations" and "reassurances". An "affirmation" is an optimistic statement that isn't (or may not be) actually true: "I'm active and healthy!" "My partner loves and values me." "I eat a healthy diet." Affirmations (and white lies) can IMO be harmful.
A "reassurance" is something that is true. "I value being active and moving my body." "I can maintain healthy relationship boundaries, and it's okay to require my partner to respect them." "I want to focus on eating foods that feel like they support me."
And the ultimate reassurance: "I love you exactly as you are, and I will help you work to be how you want to be."
Many thanks for your videos. They always get me thinking.
There is without doubt a clear distinction between affirmation & reassurance that is all too frequently blurred. One can strive to be better without distorting reality or having implausible expectations of ourselves. Thanks for the feedback - I'm always happy to hear that my work makes people think 💜
I thought my autistic partner was the most honest person in the world but he turned out to be a huge massive LIAr
Hello, I'm glad there will be a Part 2. This is a "painful" subject for many of us, I think. I prefer not to lie, but of course I have for both "selfish" & "unselfish" reasons. Another example of the "Honest Mistake" could be when we promise we'll do something and then forget. There are definite "consequences" in the form of inside mental "pain" for being honest/dishonest. I don't think NTs understand this very well. They have very complicated "rules" and don't think about it. I can find ways around - I guess being silent is a kind of lie. This need to be honest has certainly got me into trouble at interviews and when filling in forms. I try not to hurt people's feelings and am horrified if I do. It is frustrating when I think someone is reading something different in my meaning or is trying to spare my feelings. Also, I get "paranoid" that people think I am exaggerating when I am not. It's so complex. Thank you again for your insights.
Another thought: it's been my experience, as an autistic Zen practitioner, that neurotypical people are often really, really uncomfortable with "don't-know mind" or hearing "I recognize that I don't know enough about this topic to have a useful opinion, so I don't have an opinion yet." You can almost see their brains seize up. "But! not having an opinion?! HOW DOES THAT WORK???" 🤷🏼
If I had a penny for every time...😂
I've so frequently had to tell people I would come back to them once I'd had time to think or educate myself further only to be pushed for an immediate answer. I don't like expressing opinions without adequate understanding which is something so many autistic people share. It's not universal, but very common.
Apparently it's a "cop out" phrase. I just don't go out, much simpler and safer. I'm tired of public meltdowns, they're much too dangerous.
@@faerietattoosnapdragon5429 Really? A "cop out" phrase? Oh dear. I have been "copping out" all my life.
People (NT and ND) who have little knowledge (or worse, false knowledge) on a subject will almost always believe they are in possession of the full truth. The ability to accurately assess your own level of knowledge is rare. I only developed it after discovering I had been given false knowledge on the subjects of feminism and transgender issues by certain online talking heads. And even then, bringing my pride and ego down to a level where I could openly, honestly, and without shame say "I don't know enough about that topic to speak on it" took years.
One of your best. Because I clearly recall making others very angry by being honest, I have found myself speechless in many social situations. I know what I want to say, but I have learned to not do so.
There's also a problem where people expect you to do the hint / half truth dance and end up interpreting your words as something completely different.
"It's pink" can mean it's a colour of red mixed with white, or it can mean it's for (little) girls.
There's extra frustration with how some people refuse to understand that everyone has their own way of seeing and speaking to the world, so they never adjust to the obvious truths and are always looking for hidden meanings.
This right here! My whole life struggle summed up.
I always thought that autistic people were all honest and not capable of lying like neurotipical people do. I used to be close friends with an autistic girl, and many years later I found out that she destroyed a really good friendship I had with another girl with a bunch of fucked up lies. It was quite shocking to me that the friendship she formed with me was based on a bunch of lies and toxicity. That was the most bizarre friendship I've ever had!!
I'm feeling for you @lajellybeans you are right though, some autists are ok with being much more loose with the truth. I have a couple in my family and they have caused me enormous pain. I recognise we share a phenotype, but for years I doubted it because they are ok with not being honest in a way that I am not. I think they are a minority in the autist community, I hope so anyway.
There is a problem with the label, 'autistic'. In private clinics in the UK, people can purchase a diagnosis of autism for £1200. Just because a person has a diagnosis, it doesn't mean the person is autistic. I have dealt with therapists, who have diagnosed themselves with autism, so that they can exploit autistic clients. In the same way, just because someone doesn't have a diagnosis, it doesn't make them neurotypical.
The way I see it, for example, if you ask me if a new haircut looks good on you, there's a difference between it being objectively ugly and me not liking it. Believing that my opinion on a haircut is THE truth is, in fact, a lie. Do they like it? that is the important thing
Nice to see someone else understands that objective truth and opinion are different.
Thank you for existing on RUclips.
Well, sometimes people don't lie, but we understand something different. An autistic friend introduced me as their biggest friend, and I felt honored. They didn't mean their best friend, but I was actually the fattest friend. And I felt so hurt when I found out. On the other hand, I have delayed sensory comprehension, so when I am pushed to answer it may not be the correct answer, because I am still processing. And that may take a while. Nowadays I try not to answer right away and say I haven't made my mind up or I 'll get back to you on that. Because sometimes I just don't know.
Excellent the way you clearly put into words what I feel and felt through my entire life.
Diagnosed aged 47.
Thank you.
Thanks for commenting and I'm really glad you related so strongly to it 💜
The few people in my life are brutally honest and I love it because it allows me to be the same. We take no offense. If anything we’d be more offended by the lie like “you seriously let me walk around looking like that?” “You really let me say something that stupid and didn’t check me?”. I’d rather the brutal truth than a comforting lie. You’re just allowing me to live in a false reality. I mean, I’m pretty self aware, but no one is perfect. I have my moments. But yeah, we dont lie to each other because we dont want to be lied to. Granted my few friends are either clinically diagnosed Autistic, ADHD, or both, and one is a literal Psychopath. We are who we are, we dont harm others in any way, and we get each other. We’re all loners and hermits. We get together once in a while or play games once a month. We all like our space, but we like that we can not talk or see each other for a long time, and when we get together, it’s like there was no gap. You dont like people and would rather be alone? Me too. Oh, you have complex trauma and other things going on in your head? Cool. I understand you and your issues. No judgment or hate from me. I know what it’s like. We dont always control who we are but we’re good people who have been repeatedly ostracized and cast out. We have our small circle, been friends for over 10 years. Met in our teens, now in our 30’s. We’re all married or engaged, and struggling, but getting by. All of our wives are some type of neurodivergent too. It just works out. I’m understood, not seen as a rude liar, or cold, not infantilized, or talked to like I’m dumb, and yes I paid for my IQ test, not that it means a lot, and yes it’s up in the “superior intelligence” brakcet. But hey my limitations from Autism over shadow that with NT’s. Like I’m more intelligent than 90% of the people around me on a daily basis, but because I’m Autistic they really think there’s no way I could be more intelligent than a gold fish. It’s really infuriating. I’m not resentful in any way. But because I found out later in life (recently actually, then had it confirmed to be true), so now the people who already knew me think I’m lying. Mine my friend group I mentioned. I came out the them first and they all laughed at me and said they already knew and I should have just asked if I wanted to know. My family seems to have had very strong suspicions, but decided I seemed well enough. You know despite all my struggles, melt downs, crys for help, getting beat, screamed at and punished from my special interests for MONTHS. All for exhibiting overwhelming signs if Autism as a kid. My own family refuses to believe it despite themselves in their own words describing my behaviors and actions and stuff as a kid. It was right in front of everyone and I was expected to just learn to be like my cousins and the kids at school. Actually, mire was expected. I was supposed to know and understand what the “perfect” all American White (I’m actually half Hispanic, but my dad hated it, makes no sense) Boy was and I needed to be that. Like I was a proper young lad from the 40’s or 50’s. Like idek what YOU want from me, let alone the rest if the world. Then when I say I’m confused, you say I’m not and kick the shit out of me, then get mad that I’m upset you just beat me. So yeah, I was abused for being Autistic and my family did nothing basically because it would have been a stain on their image. I’m basically the family embarrassment. It’s good though. Haven’t talked to any of aside from my mom and sister in years. Been better off and happier without the judgment, criticisms, gaslighting, or mental, emotional, and physical abuse. The best part is, I’m the “disabled” one and struggling, but I’m still doing better than all of them. And yoy know what? I’m damn proud of myself and my wife for making it this far with just each other. Her with ADHD that effects her in many ways, and me with now for sure Autism. But since finding out. So much guilt, stress, self hate, etc is all gone. I actually respect myself now for fighting so hard through burnouts and all and not even knowing why all of this was happening, why I couldn’t socialize, why my senses were more intense, why certain smell, sounds and brightness give me chronic migraines, why I hear things no one else does, why I have insomnia. All of the situations and interactions from my past that make so much sense now. I wasn’t crazy, I did live and experience all of this, and no one online or in real life can take that from me, idc what they have to say. I feel for the many out there struggling who still don’t known this about themselves. I sincerely hope they find out one day so they can stop feeling like a failure, loser, broken, weird, or whatever. My whole life changed after finding out. And in a good way for once. I finally understand so much about myself and my life, and with all of this new knowledge, IK my future is looking bright. I’m gonna have a hell of a hard time, but at least I know the accommodations I can make for myself. And my marriage had gotten so much better and so many misunderstandings from the last decade make sense. The communication between is so much better. It’s a bitter sweet thing in many ways. I was going so crazy with imposter syndrome before I got an official answer. Sooooooo bad. But now I just accept it. It’s who I am and I wouldn’t want it any ither way. I mean, if I knew sooner, I’d have changed some things I did, but better late than never. I’ve been so down on myself, stressed, depressed, full of self hatred and disgust, but not anymore. I mean, I’ll still going to deal with negative internal struggles, but at least I’m aware of why and I can catch it and be a healthier person. And thank god for my Wife’s support in all of this an not using it against me. She’s been so happy to see me learning about myself and making changes for the better. She said this is the happiest she’s seen me in 8 years. And that being said, she now see’s how honest I have been being about my experiences, feelings, and etc. she’s been learning so much about Autism as I did with her ADHD. We really get each other on such a deeper level. That barrier from before is gone. It’s both happy and sad for me. Like I’m happy with everything, but mourning the life and person I thought I had and was.
Yes, yes, yes, on all your assertions. I had to explain to my mother, recently, that I don't operate well, in a social context, without honesty and straightforwardness. I am scared to be brutally honest to her though. I avoid her and everyone who can't handle my honesty. Luckily, I have an autist companion who is wonderfully honest and straight with me.
I can be to honest ... LOL ... I feel bad sometimes for that!
Layers 1:41 Yessss life & honestly has layers! They frustrate me but I am aware of them. ❤️
If someone close lies to me when I was asking for the truth, it feels like a betrayal beyond belief, but everyone lies and sometimes no matter what they’ll never admit they lied, yet every sense in my body is telling me otherwise, it’s horrible, feels like a stand off.
If I lie but you persist on calling me out on a lie, I’ll break quite easily and turn to truth, lying is hard anyway
I'm of a mind that intent doesn't always balance the ledger. I know of too many instances where I and others have come to harm through someone's misguided, high-handed attempts at 'help'. Even here in Aotearoa, our history is littered with such instances.
I also think we need to be aware that although we are responsible for what we say and do we are not responsible for what someone else does or thinks. We can't control the feelings and reactions of others; we can only be aware of our own. I get the feeling that my sister is constantly trying not to upset me; but it bothers me more that she is being dishonest than would correct and truthful information.
Wouldn't it be nice if people would say what they mean and mean what they say. (sighs ruefully)).
Excellent.
This was so true for me!!! I just can’t lie 🥲
Imagine not knowing you are autistic and assuming everyone lived by the same moral code to not lie... because that's your frame of reference... sigh. The amount of people I trusted, scams I fell for... believing the best in people. I find it sad AF and odd AF that there even has to be a video about what I see as common sense... like I know no other way to be. I also grew up strict catholic and my mom would say she would wash our mouths out with laundry soap (back then it was a disgusting dry yellow bar). So again, I had no concept that lying was acceptable and totally wrong.
I agree and understand FULLY.
Another great video, thank you for your hard work.
Thank you 💜
3:04 its not excusable. this is the type of behaviour why I dont trust people
Thank you! I found that very relatable!
Thanks for the feedback 😊
So… isn’t masking a form of lying? I’ve always thought of myself as of as a huge liar mostly bc of how I have to present myself with most people, and respond to them in ways they can understand. Being honest is just setting myself up for abuse
NORMAL FORKS SAY THEY WANT TRUE BUT THEY DON'T
After Jesus Christ personally revealed Himself to me, He showed me that He is literally Truth, as mind boggling as that sounds. I know that the place completely devoid of deception is Heaven, not a dystopia. Satan is the father of lies, so liars join their father in Hell, as the bible says. They go there because they love their darkness, and despise the light of Truth, the light of God, the light of Christ.
I was an atheist, but now I worship Truth, and Truth is Jesus Christ. That is why Truth cannot be changed, controlled, destroyed or possessed, because Truth is God. I don't know how, but it is.
Social contracts are nonsense. Nobody ever agreed to those. Nothing was signed, explained or specified, for it to count as an agreement/contract.
In the end everyone is motivated by their egoes.