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Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End, First and Last: Titles for God and for Jesus? - Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2019
- A clip from #GregStafford during his Day Text show for July 6, 2019, in which he discusses texts in Revelation and in Isaiah which pertain to the question of whether #AlphaandOmega, Beginning and End, and #FirstandLast are titles used for God or for Jesus, or for both?
Link to Part 1 in this series on the use of Alpha and Omega, Beginning and End, First and Last: • Alpha and Omega, Begin...
Link to the entire Day Text show for July 6, 2019 from which part 2 in this series was taken: • Day Texts with Greg St...
Link to Greg Stafford’s video, “The ‘Sons of God’ in Pre-Christian Biblical Texts”: • Day Texts with Greg St...
Link to Greg Stafford’s video, “More on Jesus as "a god" and "a man," the "S/sons of God," and Monotheism”: • More on Jesus as "a go...
Other links:
CWJah Web Page:
www.CWJah.org
Order books and videos by Greg Stafford:
www.elihubooks.com/content/boo...
Articles by Greg Stafford on "Watching the Ministry" Blog:
elihubooks.blogspot.com/
Greg Stafford's Topical Index:
www.elihubooks.com/content/top...
CWJ Facebook page:
/ cwjah
Follow Greg Stafford on Twitter:
/ thegreatmessage
In this video at one point I mention Isaiah 45:18 as a text like Isaiah 44:6 in which Jah uses the Greek term PRWTOS, "first," or EGW PRWTOS, "I first," followed by EGW META TAUTA, "I after this," both without the article, though the article could have been used. But I meant Isaiah 48:12 uses "first" in this way, similar to Isaiah 44:6, with Jah speaking, while in Revelation 1:7 and 2:8 Jesus uses hO PRWTOS, "The First," as well as hO ESKATOS, "The Last," as titles pertaining to his death and resurrection. Jesus' uses of "First and Last" in Revelation 1:17 and 2:8 is not the same as what Jah says according to the Greek text of Isaiah 44:6 or Isaiah 48:12, the latter of which speak of God in comparison to other gods, not his death and resurrection. Further, the God of Isaiah has no God above him. Jesus does.--Revelation 3:2, 12.
@@solomd8134 Not the same words according to Codex A, and much different accompanying terms, right? So in 1:17-18 and 2:8 you do not see "Alpha and Omega" or "Beginning and End." Jesus' God is the Father, right? Did you miss those texts?--Revelation 3:2, 12. The God of Isaiah has NO ONE who is his God. So you should never connect Jesus' words in 1:17-18 and 2:8 with Isaiah 44:6. Right?
@@solomd8134 You keep bringing up 22:13 but I already previously linked my discussion on this and all other Alpha and Omega texts, which explains the speakers in Revelation, and in particular how this relates to 22:12-13. Please read this entire article and in particular the discussion of 22:12-13 on pages 181-186: www.elihubooks.com/data/topical_index/000/000/452/Stafford_JWD2_CHAP_3_Alpha_Omega_Discussion.pdf
@@solomd8134 I don't see you addressed the fact the glorified Jesus who calls himself The First and the Last regarding his death and resurrection has a God (Revelation 3:2, 12). The God of Isaiah has no other God above him. Please read Isaiah 44 through 45 for details on this and then explain how The First and Last of Revelation 1:17-18 and 2:8 has a God. Because I guarantee you the God of Revelation 22 does not have anyone who is God to him. I don't see how providing some other reference to Jesus as The First and The Last will change any of this, particularly since it is clear the God of Isaiah would not say what Jesus says in Revelation 3:2, 12. That is clear. But I appreciate your view. I just disagree and I do not see the consistency in your view I see with mine.
@@solomd8134 Using your logic, then John is the Alpha and the Omega, as in Revelation 1:9 we read, "I, John," RIGHT AFTER the "Alpha and Omega" speaks in verse 8 (NO EIMI in verse 8 either!). Please explain why you apparently believe, based on your argument above for Revelation 22:12-16, John is the Alpha and Omega, for we read in verse 9: EGW IWANNES. This is EXACTLY like the pattern shown in Revelation 22:12-16, but neither one of which identify the one speaking ("I") as the one speaking in the preceding verse! If you had read what I wrote almost 20 years ago, and which I linked for you, you would know this. Or if you just read the entire text of Revelation and did not ignore the grammar and speech pattern in Revelation 1:18-9 when you interpret 22:12-16.
@@solomd8134 When you explain how that is a problem for me I'll let you know.
This guy is without doubt, the most intelligent “jehovahs witness” I’ve ever listened to ! I see now that one can be a non-trinitarian Christian, and have a well developed intellect! I have talked to a lot of Witnesses & Greg Stafford is a helpful one, for sure!
A “Christian witness of Jah” I should say!