The Challenges of Interfaith Relations | Ed Kessler on Israel-Gaza Conflict, and Religious Dialogue
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 12 июн 2024
- What makes international conflicts turn domestic? Does Qatar play the key role in bringing peace to the Middle East? Is there a generational split in the West over Israel-Gaza?
On today's episode of Leading, Rory and Alastair are joined by Ed Kessler, a leading thinker in interfaith relations, to answer all these questions and more.
TRIP ELECTION TOUR:
To buy tickets for our October Election Tour, just head to www.therestispolitics.com/
TRIP Plus:
Become a member of The Rest Is Politics Plus to support the podcast, receive our exclusive newsletter, enjoy ad-free listening to both TRIP and Leading, benefit from discount book prices on titles mentioned on the pod, join our Discord chatroom, and receive early access to live show tickets and Question Time episodes.
Just head to www.therestispolitics.com/ to sign up.
✅ Subscribe Here: / @restispolitics
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
🎙️ Listen To The Podcast: lnk.to/TheRestIsPoliticsYT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Follow Us On Socials:
Facebook: / restispolitics
Instagram: / restispolitics
TikTok: / restispolitics
Twitter: / restispolitics
00:00 Intro
01:30 Who is Ed Kessler?
03:02 The calamitous effects since the Hamas attack October 7th
04:56 What does the end of the Israel/Palestine conflict look like?
05:52 Upbringing and how it influenced your career path
07:58 Breakdown of the types of Judaism
09:09 What is the difference between Christianity and Judaism?
11:10 Experience of anti-Semitism and how today's form of anti-Semitism is different
17:21 How to make interfaith relationships work
22:45 Why do you recommend a two-state solution to the Israel/Palestine conflict?
22:50 How the Jewish and Muslim communities have reacted in the UK
31:27 How extreme the reaction has been in the US compared to the UK
35:16 Is the woke-culture from America coming to the UK?
39:31 Multiculturalism has been a success
45:11 How do you make sense of all the conflict?
53:18 Attitude to refugees in the UK
I haven't seen anyone invited to present Palestinian point of view on the show although they are the most affected people by this conflict ie right from the 1947 not October the 7th.
ruclips.net/video/AtsTsCFxrNI/видео.html
Interview with Husam Said Zomlot
Seems like it would be easy to get someone like Layla Moran on, given that she's a politician in Britain who is not that busy and would appreciate the airtime.
They interviewed some politician, I think it was some Palestinian representative in the uk, shortly after oct 7th, in late October or November. I think it was shortly after yuval noah harari was interviewed
Let's be real, with the kind of high level associations the podcast has both in terms of past guests, future guests and broadcasting entities, to present the Palestinian side of the argument in any real or credible way would be hugely not in the interests of the podcast. It would make maintaining the quality fof the podcast almost impossible.
I'm a practicing Christian (Anglican). Ed Kessler what a breath of fresh air. Thanks guys for this discussion and video.
Absolutely agree - practicing Muslim. This pod gave me some hope
Non religious here, I just want peace.
ive been to the woolfe institute for a summer school about the israel-palestine conflict and it’s so great to have people recognise the importance of religion and its intersection with politics and culture etc!! kessler is doing great work
Relatively secular, but traditional 30-something Jew here... I really enjoyed this episode, but I'm left a bit confused, without focus or without next steps. - What can I do in my little world to bring more peace, harmony and understanding. I am basically on the far left in comparison to some of my family and friends views on Israel-Gaza, by which I mean I feel sympathy and understanding for the Palestinians, especially the children, I am worried about the Israeli government and more. If I was to voice those with certain people I'd be called a self-hating Jew. - Likewise, in the same way as other countries 'have a right to exist' I also believe in Israel's right... So, to those on the left, I'm a Zionazi.
Thoughts, feelings, hints, suggestions.
Cheers.
Ah! You're singing my theme song:
"Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you."
🖖
I went to a C of E primary school.
The result.
Life long anti-religion stance.
Same and same.
Sadly, I’m afraid there are very few people who appreciate-- or even want to appreciate-- the complexity of the relationships in the Middle East. Most people want the simplistic sound-bite. We can wish it weren’t so, but this seems to be part of the reality that characterizes our peoples and our national leaders.
Well said. The circumstances that have given rise to the conflicts are multiple and far from easy to understand. They interact in a complicated way. There is most certainly no single cause.
Agreed
What a wonderful, inspiring person. Thank you for interviewing Ed Kessler.
I’m an atheist.
We need more people like Ed Kessler
And if there is a god, looking at most of us he must be thinking “what a bunch of morons”…
Amazing interview. Should be broadcasted in major channels. Thank you for this.
As a practising Muslim, I find Ed Kessler a beacon of wisdom, hope. I would add that Muslim ‘ anger and frustration’ at what is happening to Palestinians has to be compounded with what has been happening in / to the Muslim world over the past 30-40 years.
I think that until we can free ourselves from religious dogma, all these problems are unsolvable. Getting rid of faith schools would be a very small, but necessary, step towards that better future. Now that would be brave politics!
The Emperor Protects.
It is really not as simple as that.
There certainly is a faith problem in that the Israeli Government maintains it has a god given right to steal other peoples land. If you look back to before 1945, members of all three faiths lived together in pretty much harmony….it’s pretty outrageous to now, after 75 years of tyranny plead for a riddance of dogma! The sheer effrontery of this spurious claim that it’s the fault of Islam and Christianity beggars belief.
Do not be silly. It is a fight for land and survival. The religious factor is minor
@@farzanamughal5933 I understand what it has become, but religiosity makes it unsolvable, because unfortunately all religions deal in absolutes. Google a list of the world’s least violent countries and generally you will find secular countries. List the most violent countries and generally you will find religion.
Very engaging/interesting. Thanks for introducing me to Ed Kessler.
How do you manage to bring better and more interessting discussions online than the mighty BBC?
Thank you very much. This is an excellent conversation! Thank you again!
Brilliant discussion. More attention needs to go to the peace making efforts that are happening around the world. Its these efforts that truly change the world for the better not more bullets and bombs.
Thank you very much for this!
Excellent, thank you!!!
An interesting but ultimately thin discussion. It dares to venture, but not far enough, into the notion of doctrinal difference, and how we might learn to tolerate these variances.
The guest is professionally polite to all religions and appears unwilling to criticise anything other than lack of tolerance.
@@davegold Your reply does not address my point and, therefore, is irrelevant.
@@t5kcannon1 Are you wanting toleration through avoiding difficult issues (political correctness) or a toleration through solutions to difficult issues? The latter requires an examination of difficult issues and sometimes a critique of specific religions.
@davegold A tolerance as unaware of its own bias, as this speakers tolerance is, is simply not tolerance at all.
Thin is all we get these days.
Islam is not in the "tolerate" business
How odd that the conversation on antisemitism focussed so much on complex antipathies and differences in the 16th century etc. but then 'modern' antisemitism is about opposing Zionism?
So that would mean disliking the war crimes, regular crimes, and crimes against humanity carried out by a supposedly secular ethnocracy in service of religious prophecy is just a 'modern' version of the most abhorrent racism the 20 century faced.
I rather dislike the ease with which equivalence is drawn there.
Because it is nonsense. He says that he's all about tolerance and then unequivocally backs a state recently created through ethnic violence against people who aren't Jewish. 😊
He admitted to being a Zionist which says it all
The discussion fails (quite badly) at defining terms. These kinds of discussions must offer definitions first. Then the listener will have an improved understanding of what follows.
Why would a discussion of interfaith matters be expected to resolve what is happening today? I don't get your reasoning. Should every discussion about Islam only focus on Islamic terrorism? Should every Muslim speaker be told it is an "easy equivalence" if they don't address the extremists that profess the Islamic faith?
@@joeuma6403 Just to present a balanced perspective, that recently created state has been suffering 'ethnic violence' against people who are Jewish ever since it was created.
Excellent Interview
Hmmm…. Might have to listen again to have a real opinion. But first impression (having listened to it all) he seems like a very nice guy, but not sure how concrete the answers were. Would have been interesting to hear more solid opinions and to be pressed to express them more. Again may have missed them, hence will listen again to make a fuller conclusion on the conversation.
Super interesting conversation
There are too many nefarious actors who don’t want Israel-Palestine peace that will ensure there is never a solution
My word! Everyone I know has always wanted that very thing! That’s why we are protesting for heavens sake. Why do you think that British Jews are marching in the protests against this war; why are Israeli Jews demonstrating against their own government in Jerusalem! All of us condemn Hamas…..what we are saying is that it’s not about one religious faith against another….it’s about a criminal racist government, which by its actions IS stirring up religious hatred and has been doing that for decades: it’s the old saying proving terribly true, ‘He who sows the wind reaps the whirlwind’
This has been going on all my lifetime, I’m 76, and I’ve been dreading this happening…and now it has.
Apartheid Zionists is that nefarious actor
An interesting conversation. Food for thought.
Good interview but with 50 minutes of Rory pulling funny faces I would struggle to keep composure.
The Toothy Gurner
Rory’s facial expressions when he’s listening to others, anyone else noticed or care to share ? 😂
Yes. I'd be really curious to understand what goes on through his mind while he does that. Because he doesn't always do it.
Rory's grimacing horse looks like a souped-up twitch
I've been watching this for so long I've found myself doing it too... bizarre really, I always thought I was made of stronger stuff but now I'm mirroring a former Tory MP
@@ElliottCauser you are a brave person to admit it. Admirable.
@@alexeyp83 Tourettes?
Great interview, whats the reason that we have had to wait 2 months for it?
Thank you Ed for giving Catholic Palestinians more airtime than anybody else has ever managed! I'm not a religious person, but my family were Roman Catholics from a village named Ein Karem, which is pretty much within Jerusalem (hence the family surname - we were imaginative, you know!). I too believe a land named Palestine and another named Israel is the only possible solution; as for whether it'll happen this century, even this millennium, I wouldn't want to bet. It's so heartwrenching - all of it, all the time, on both sides. We are human. We are the same. We must stop killing each other. We must stop killing each other.
You have a beautiful mindset.
I'm just wondering - why are some of the episodes / videos that show up on YouTbe different to those on the podcasat episode lists? I just listened to the Kwasi episode for example, which doesn't show up here, and on the podcast side, THIS doesn't show up. What gives?
It's amazing that we can have a discussion about Israel/Palestine without discussing the root of the problem: the fundamental injustice done to the Palestinian people with the creation of Israel in the first place. It was not a land without a people.
The idea of a religiously exclusive or supremacist state is an anathema in the 20th/21st century. Zionism was an idea from the 19th century when colonialism, racism, and ethno-supremacism was all the rage.
Reparations for European crimes against the jewish people can not possibly be used to justify the injustice done towards the Palestinians, who had nothing to do with the Holocaust.
But Israel exists and no one is going to turn back the clock because that would be to do an injustice as great as was done in the past.
The best we can do now is to recognise the injustice done and allow Palestinians to finally be free to live in their own country too.
I've given you a like, because in general I agree with you that we need to look to the future, but I will just point out that there is no one "root of the problem". Everyone involved traces the problem back to their own root cause, the point at which they arbitrarily decide that things were in a natural state and so everything after that point is the injustice. A lot of Israelis would argue that the "root of the problem" was the Palestinians not accepting the UN's original decision on the borders; or the Six Day War; or indeed the eviction of the Jews by the Romans millennia ago, since before all those turning points things were "fine" from their perspective until someone came along and messed it all up. But history is ever-evolving, that land has belonged to dozens of civilizations throughout history, and no one of them has any greater claim than any other.
@@phueal thank you. I definitely think we need to look more to the future.
However.
What you said about an arbitrary start point betrays a confused understanding of history.
The starting point is clear.
It is Zionism.
Zionism is a 19th century invention.
Most Jewish people were not Zionists initially.
Most Zionists were not even practising Judaism. It was a secular ethno nationalist, colonial movement.
Some Jews already lived in Palestine but most did not.
Jews had been free to move to Palestine for thousands of years but chose not to, because the orthodox Jewish position is to wait for the messiah.
The problem clearly started when the western powers created the state of Israel by displacing the Muslim and Christian Palestinians.
The newly emigrated people, mostly from Eastern Europe, terrorised the local population.
Just because different people once occupied a certain land over the course of thousands of years does not mean that someone who claims ancestry from 2000 years ago to people who once lived in a certain place suddenly has the right to evict the person who currently lives there.
It’s like an Italian person coming to London and saying that one of his ancestors (Romans) lived in south London at one point in history, so the people of south London need to move north of the river. Or perhaps a Swede, who has some kind of ancestry with the Vikings might say the same thing.
That is a confused understanding of history and logic.
I agree with most of Ed Kessler’s views but I cannot agree with his view that multiculturalism in the UK is a success. The huge unrest in UK society currently, the ghettos, would suggest he is wrong on this point.
Great interview!
Happy Republic Day! would love to see you guys interview Graham Smith from Republic.
Rory and Alistair do a great job on this channel and it's always informative, challenging and thought provoking. They are both very smart political operators, but obviously not 'religeous' (maybe agnostic/athiest/cannot be bothered to think about it).
I'm not sure if they asked Ed Kessler the question about the difference between the Christian and Jewish faith because they were ignorant (hard to believe), or it was an opening for him to explain some very simple basics.
It's a complex subject, but this glossed over the major theological diffences that separate Christianity, Judaism and the Muslim faith that are so fundamental, that apart from being respectful and being quite nice to each other, cannot be bridged by conversations, however well intentioned.
For Christians, Jesus was and is the Son of God, his death on the cross was the atonement for the sins of the world.
For Jews, perhaps he was a gifted teacher, but certainly not the long awaited messiah, and maybe a slightly deranged and dangerous charlatan who was rightly executed as a troublemaker.
For Muslims, a great prophet, but he didn't actually die on the cross, but at the second coming he will be subservient to the Mahdi.
How can these vastly different doctrines be reconciled?
Never, but we don't have to fight each other while we hold very different views.
"How do we deal with difference"? Refreshing to hear this. Incredible stuff.
Heaven forbid you think twice before you say something that could offend someone
International events become domestic because we are funding many of these international events.
Dear Rory and Alastair: please interview Stephanie Kelton
From the Nakba to the Nation State law, Israel's character has always been obvious and in the open. It isn't racist to see crimes and label them such.
The crime of being a nation state. such a unique concept- doesn't exist in any other European state (aside maybe from multicultural Britain) and more ironically in the middle east with the Jordanian or Syrian "nations" - and don't forget one....the Palestinian - the nation with no history, no agency, no integrity and no responsibility- but the everlasting rights of making the world a worse place- they must get a nation-state.
Taqyia ?
What preceded the nakba?
@@veryfitting Don't try to argue with someone who assigns character to a state
@@veryfitting better question - what is the NAKBA???
Great
I am disappointed that at 45:11, where the question about "How do you make sense of the conflict?" the guest sidesteps the question. ("I can't do it in a sound bite.")
This is the forum specifically for that question, and the guests answer was that of a polished politician, avoiding the question. Can you follow up with him, to give him the time to consider and the opportunity to answer, that question. That question being the center of this whole conversation.
I can understand the hosts good graces in there example of keeping a measured tone on such a device topic in word and deed.
Keep up the good work. Peace and happiness to all.
I completely agree, he repeatedly skirted difficult questions, which I consider an especially distasteful attitude to have in an academic. Rather than addressing the problems in the region, he kept trying to shut down Alistair and Rory so he could point to a couple of friendly meetings, as if bringing together a couple of rich Palestinian and Israeli students in an academic environment is going to eclipse the escalating hatred at the grassroots level in the region. It goes past naivety and into deliberate deception to misconstrue the dire depth of the problem as so easily addressed.
@@bunnyadvocate2999 We are making two different points. The lead up was good, but that question was the one point that was being led up too. That is why I was thrown, by the answer. If you have ever watched Maggy Thatcher talk around a question she did not want to answer, she was a master. I do not know this guy and while it was a different technique to Maggy's, she has left me on the lookout for people using avoidance when answering questions. Maggy was much smoother, you did not know you where being led until it was all over. lol.
Good graces?
He is frightened to criticise Islam
Thank you!!!
This was an amazing interview that i really appreciate you guys doing as a jew in the uk who has unfortunately experienced in the relatively short time ive been here (9 months) quite a bit of antisemitism and ignorance. It's the first time I've seen someone express exactly what I wish people understood.
Am Yisrael Chai ❤️
Really interesting and as a committed atheist it is always illuminating to hear about the ridiculous squabbling that goes on between belief communities. Faith is the root cause of the instability in the Middle East and elsewhere, I do not see factionalism amongst those that do not believe in some mystic higher force.
I can tell you now, and as an agnostic, that this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Middle East and human nature generally. Religion is just a tool for these groups to despise each other but the fact is many would use ethnicity or nationality if there were no religion. Humans factionalise, it's an evolutionary trait we haven't gotten rid of and in the present there is no region more obvious for this than the incredibly complex Middle Eastern factions, states and groups of people.
@@thekernowyonpenguin Unfortunately, what unites all the incredibly complex Middle Eastern factions, states, and groups of people is their long standing anti-semitism.
This has nothing to with faiths whatsoever…as I said above if you do any research you will find that Christians, Jews and Muslims lived in mutual harmony before and for some time after 1945….
Salman Rushdie would be an interesting interview
They're talking around the obvious. It's unfortunate that of those three major faiths, two tolerate liberal intrepretations and seccular governance. And I'm not sure what can be done, externally, to bring about that tolerance in the third.
35:56 "Its more difficult engaging in [classroom] dialogue than it was 25 years ago" This is such an interesting statement from this interviewee, because He doesn't seem to be interested in engaging with why that is, what Materially Changed over those 25 years. Alot of other dialogues got easier, even in his interfaith sphere, there's been a drastic improvement since 2001 on Muslim-Christian Dialogue on things in that time.
Having a discussion on Israel Palestine is more difficult and he should really think about why that is. I would contend its because the prospect of material improvement in the situation is drifting away, a dialogue is made more difficult when the value of dialogue is diluted, and when dialogue is repeatedly undermined by material events. For example the nation state law, or further settlements that go relatvely unchallenged in Israeli society. When the institutions of the state of Israel and institutions of the Palestinian authority are unable to engage in joint actions, and dialogue, then we should be unsurprised when people lose interest in discussions between commoners. And IMO it might be whats best for this individual but dialogue on this scale seems pointless to me when the basis on which its discussed is so detached.
Fascinating interview, please contact your MP and ask them to restore the Interfaith Council's funding.
A brilliant interview. I have friends with different faiths around the world. I see it as a personal thing and did heard our bishop Christer Stendahl in Stockholm in the 80-ties when he talked about these brilliant ways to look at other religions. The problem is that many leaders have hijacked religions for power and don't see it as a personal thing, rather make it a we vs. them in a cultish way.
Fascinating. How can I help? I’m a secular Jew and spent many years as a senior refugee law judge.
If want to understand a people live or try to live their lives
i think i heard of some place (in London maybe?)
where you actually borrow/take a pair of shoes (that have belonged to someone else)
and go for a walk in them!
..sure i heard this, as opposed to my inventing it..
but it is possible..
thank you for this content, meaningful discussions at a difficult time.
Impressive open-minded pragmatic guy. if only there were many more. Very interesting. Thank you.
How can you possibly think this guy is openminded! He equates criticism of the Israeli Government as anti semitism.
I would like for this podcast to bring in more voices that can express the Palestinian perspective! It’s largely favoured towards guests that are sympathetic to the Israeli narrative
Agreed
A group of people who voted in a proscribed terrorist organisation that preaches genocide of Jews?
UK Palestinian Ambassador has been interviewed on this very podcast and , in fairness, Rory has been very vocal and balanced with the support of Alastair.
@@kieranoconnor4334 Alastair and Rory even by their own admission are very much on the Israeli side. And one Palestinian representative in comparison to atleast 4 people of the top of my head who are pro Israel isn’t exactly balance. Especially if you are trying to provide understanding to the masses regarding this issue.
@@kieranoconnor4334Jhon mearsheimer
Regarding Israel, @30:15 Alistair mentioned Northern Ireland. It seems the Northern Ireland model might be the only option open in the long run. Both Israeli and Palestinian representatives will have to jointly govern and new legislation can only be enacted by a select Committee from both parties. The only difference from the Northern Ireland model would be a UN defence force and police force which would include members of both communities. Israel as it is cannot be allowed to continue and Palestinians must be given responsibility. Otherwise Europe will be drawn into another disastrous conflict.
Israel is Jewish supremacist state. They aren't sharing power with lesser people like Palestinians
Check what happened to Israeli Prime Minister who was on the verge of making a longer term peace in Middle East
Why do you think that the NI model is the *only* option in the long run? Which conditions/constraints have you assumed to result in that conclusion?
Ironic that he denied the characterisation of Israel/Palestine as having colonial comparison at the same time though, don't you think?
Northern Ireland is often touted as a model for the the Israeli Palestinian conflict. It isn't.
Whatever the historic rights and wrongs of either conflict, even the most extreme elements of Irish Republicanism never wanted to destroy Britain as an entity . It just wanted them out of Ireland.
Israel on the other hand has always faced an existential threat, previously PLO, Egypt, Syria, Jordan etc now Hamas, Hezbolla, and Iran etc...
If you remove that threat definitively then any kind of arrangement if possible. If that threat continues then I'm afraid continuation of conflict is guaranteed.
The next time someone says I'm bla bla bla because of faith can you please ask them to define faith... Coz in reality it is the excuse people use when they don't have proof/evidence.
Or is it that a lot of Jews equate Israel with Judaism and automatically consider anti Zionism as antisemitism? I don’t doubt there’s a rise, but that caveat seems important.
Do you challenge any other religion’s right to a state or self-determination? Why there is just a word for this in the case of Jews, I don’t know, but it’s an incredibly convenient crutch for anti-semites.
Exactly, and being an antizionist doesn't mean you want to see jews wiped from the land of Israel.
It is simply a call for fair play, for the ethnostate of Israel not to be given all precedence over the needs of Palestinians... Palestinians must be treated as equals not animals.
@@patrickwalker4159 even if they are governed by jihadists?
Thought you were the Irish guy from the Chase for a moment
Forget about faith when it comes to wars, it's a self justifying distraction. It's about people.
Can you define what exactly 'woke culture' is?
If you have to ask that, then you have not been keeping up with events.
@@t5kcannon1well everyone seems to have completely different ideas and definitions. I think conciseness is key in political debates and using buzz words like woke without referring to it's standard definition and following populist general lines of thinking or general trends of events within people who are categorized as woke to define it just simply isn't impartial. I ask you, if you were to see racial discrimination as it happens would you be aware that it were happening?
The woke culture???? Again define that, what are you talking about!
Seems like, listening to the guy speak for quite a while, that there are lots of differences, now lets face it, the real differences are about resources and real estate and a place to live and a living to buy bread. But... people love to add a layer based on wizards and magic and unknowable invisible friends who think that they are great and the others (who are living on land you want / think you should have, rightly or otherwise) are evil. Then they use the invisible friends as excuses to attack each other. Funny thing is, offer a man dying of thirst a drink of water and he'll stop pretending to believe in all the wizards pretty quick-sharp, so frankly, it really is about real estate, and for that there is no good solution, so just pick one, build some decent walls and keep it stable for 100 years and people will stop bothering about historical arguments about property rights, because they will be too busy living their lives. And every time someone cites the fictional writings of a fictional wizard as an excuse to do anything, take their mobile phone off them and tell them that when they admit that modern science created their phone and that modern science does not think there are any gods, and see if they still want to start any wars.
Exacerbated by Christian RC prayer about “perfidious Jews”
Glad rory is so cultured.
Your answer to the genocide in Gaza is to talk about antisemitism? Spectacular.
1. War in Gaza described as 'calamitous for everybody" without detailing Palestinian suffering.
2. No specific Palestinian or Muslim voices/scholars included to share their experiences.
3. When discussing interfaith tensions, Kessler says "I've never known relations between Faith communities particularly as Rory said Jews Christians and Muslims in this country to be as bad as they are", but then focuses discussion primarily on anti- Semitism and threats to Jews. 4. Kessler mentions hearing from Muslims that "'m scared of going on the tube in my hijab I've taken down my muza from the door I'm worried about my kids", but does not delve deeper into their experiences of Islamophobia.
5. Larger focus on Jewish theology, rituals and intra-community dynamics compared to Islam.
6. Continually links Israeli support or criticism with Antisemitism.
How precisely is this interfaith work another Israeli apologist?
The thing that antisemitism campaigners need to make up their mind on is the relationship between the state of Israel and all Jews. Are they equivalent? Does Israel represent all Jews, and vice-versa?
If they are the same, then criticising the state of Israel is antisemitism, sure, but also all Jews worldwide are accountable for the actions of the state of Israel.
If they are not the same, then Jews are not accountable for the state of Israel, but criticising Israel is not antisemitic.
At the moment antisemitism campaigners love having it both ways: they don't want to be accountable for Israel's worse behaviour, but they do want criticism of Israel to be considered antisemitism. It is surely self-evident that Jews in general are not accountable for the actions of the state of Israel, and criticising the state of Israel is not a criticism of Jews in general.
Whilst Ed Kessler comes across well and sincere , there is very little evidence that inter-faith dialogue has any impact in any situation.
ive listened to this episode a few time and i always get the impression the Alastair doesn't like Ed, or has some active negative beef with him etc. Not sure why as i never get that feeling with any guests, even the ones he obviously disagrees with i don't see this side of him
I didn't get the feeling here Andrew.
why should there be trust?
Man is born without a religion. We come to acquire it here so why do make a choice divide us so
Man is innately tribal.
Nakba constantin zurayk?
In the one moment he denies that Israel is a "Colonial Project".......(Which by the way the original Zionist founders are recorded as many times having stated it as such).......and in the next moment he's agreeing with the comparison to Northern Ireland!
It strikes me that, well meaning and all as this gentleman is, he along with many others in this discussion need to pay heed to Mathew 7:3..... "...... first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
And there was me thinking the hatred of jews by christians was that they crucified our lord (roman catholics couldn't blame the romans could they).
Who listens to a good politician these days
We never hear women's voices, they have no say and yet they are the ones holding communitites together, raising children, caring for their families. It's insane. Half the population is not represented. And how different might any negotiations be if there were women involved? Your Leading guest, Robert Sapolsky, might have something to say on this. But you two never do.
Sorry what is your point relating to this video, or the podcast as a whole?
I'm sorry but I found this interview fundamentally lacking due to the attitude of the Interviewee.
He reminds me of a head teacher who is utterly unwilling to deal with bullying at as school, and keeps restating again and again there is an anti bullying policy, we have a zero tolerence approach to bullying, and we are looking to establish dialogue with the child. But who wont, separate the two children, or intervene, or punish, or even talk directly to them about what is wrong here. They are focused on saying the line, but not doing the thing, or another way, they show they are pulling the stop bullying lever, but are disinterested that the lever is disconnected from the computer.
Everytime he is asked about the Israel-Palestine conflict the talks about individuals engaging in dialogue, but (and he nearly goes there) but entirely ignored the importance of institutional dialogue between states and ministries and international organisations, which then result in Action. Alistair brings up Northern Ireland, and somehow he misses the point, NI wasnt resolved by dialogue between the common people, it was resolved by institutions talking to each other, the IRA to the British government for one, and the important step was action, Over time perhaps the human relationships were formed that cemented the peace, but the peace was created by written declarations (GFA) and the movement and ceasefire of troops, and creating a process for justice-punishment, and importantly amnesty, and reconciliation.
Sorry, I know this is entirely off topic. The sad part about Conservatives is they went from McMillan who improved the list of millions of Britons to Liz Truss who in a major negative record of sorts, tanked the UK economy by a single budget.
Correction: Improved the lots of millions of Britons.
Censored comments
Hes very good at saying almost nothing
Really? Really? We are going to solve real world problems with people who believe in their own version of fairies? Just change that to furies and it makes about as much sense.
👍
Free Palestine
Does Rory grimace a lot? Is it a habit?..He looks like he is snarling sometimes.
Still a load of nonsense then, great
I cannot believe that none of these people know the fundamental difference between Judaism on one side and Christianity and Islam on the other side. Come on, why deny the obvious? Everyone can fact check this through their local Synagogue.
What sets Judaism apart from the rest is this story of being the chosen people. Jesus wanted to open the Jewish God to everyone which is same as Islam. Jews believe that their God is theirs and cannot be shared.
You can convert to Islam through repeating a phrase three times. To become a Chistian all you need to do to accept Jesus as the result of a virgin birth and the promised Messiah that Jews claim is still to come. But you need to study seven years before your can call yourself a believer in Judaism, but you are still not Jew, not until you or one of your male descendants marry a woman with Jewish blood.
Judaism is passed through mothers which is unique but makes perfect sense anthropologically and even genetically. The question of knowing who your real son is had been hauntig men until DNA tests came along. There were all sort of superstition and tricks invented to erase this doubt out men's brain and used frequently by women to torture men. But proving the identity of one's mother is far easier. This is why Judaism decided that it will be the mother who carries over the Jewish blood. This way no Thom, Dick, and Harry could have circumcision and pretend to be a Jew. It is is part of the mythology of Judaism that in reality was stolen from the Greeks.
Are you telling me that I am wrong about anything in the last three paragraphs? If I am wrong, then please tell me and send me relevant links to correct me. I would love to be proven wrong because I have always thought that this is the root of antisemitism which is something apparently three well educated in this podcast don't know. I refuse to believe that gas lighting could possibly go this far and therefore I must be wrong and all I need is proof which if this comment is not hidden by some strange accident, I am certain that somebody, maybe someone in the production team or the researchers could send me the relevant information.
When asked why anti-semitism is widespread, it seems strange again that the killing of the Christian messiah is not mentioned.
Interesting thing to ask for: proof about beliefs... To me that doesn't really make sense.
@@alexeyp83 It is not a question of belief. It is a question of doctrine and history.
It is a question religious text in which the follower of a religion believe. My belief is irrelevant.
Those who follow Islam have to believe that Koran is the word of god directly commnicated to his profit Mohamed. That is written in Koran.
To be Christian you must believe or claim to believe that Jesus of Nazareth was of Virgin birth and the son of God. That is a matter of doctrine. I don't have to share belief by accepting that this is stated condition as dictated by the Christian doctrine.
The person invited to the discussion pointed out that Judaism refused the claims of Christians that Jesus was the promised Messiah. Christians believe that the Judaism missed the bus. That is a pretty well known consensus based on religious text.
What was he basing that statement on?
His personal belief or history and religious text?
What do you call the religious cannon of Christianity adopted before the first schism.
It doesn't make sense to you because you don't have the intellectual background on the subject.
You probably don't even know the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament which is fine.
I wasn't asking your type to provide me with evidence of otherwise that I stated.
You shouldn't enter discussions that you don't know anything about.
I would imagine that would be common sense, wouldn't you?
@@davegold That is a sore point and avoiding it is an attempt at reconciliation between the two religions. Besides, it is part of history that can be excused that should be. Christ wanted to be crucified and there was no definate proof that he was the Christ.
I mean what would your neighbors think if started talking about your daughter having had a virgin birth?
If you remember it were the Romans who crucified Jesus of Nazareth in the strictest version of history not the Jewish Religious Institution of the time.
I am not trying to start a religious war here and I am certainly not taking side.
This problem is already tainted with a lot of scientifically impossible to test which personally is why secular society developed, to allow people to get on with daily life instead of sticking it to one another because miracles that no one can proof to have happened.
But then there are those who use the same unlikely, improbable events as an excuse to gain power more than their neighbor. But apparently impossible in that part of the world.
In any case this is a strictly intelectual query.
I sincerely find it hard to believe that neither Rory nor Alister know the fundamental difference between Judaism and the other two religions discussed here.
If there is going to be a way forward, it must start from a common ground. That is a point of agreement. Denial dimply won't do.
Unless, I am wrong this is the mistake that the Bush administration made, i.e. to dictate reality from above by one administration.
There are plenty of lies in history but they were all constructed over long periods of time, not dictated through media. That kind of manufactured reality has a bad habit of back firing, and I am hoping that our friends here are aware of that.
@@ExiledGypsyAim to structure your comments around both brevity and coherence.
This guest is a weird mix of pious and persecuted. It's all very conflicted and consequently the episode lacks any weight.
Spoke for nearly an hour and said nothing. Just vague platitudes about comforting each other about each other's superstitions to solve real world problems...
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
If he loves the world so much, why does one have to believe in Him or suffer eternal torment, you proselytizing boob?
LOL good one.
Genesis 22:1-19: Then God said, “Take your son to the land of Moriah and kill your son there as a sacrifice for me."
My friend, Jehovah has something of an unhealthy fascination and disturbingly eager readiness when it comes to child sacrifice and how much you should value their existence. I remain unconvinced that this is an admirable trait.
I'm a big fan of the Boy from Nazareth mind you: Matthew 5 38-49 applies.
Him Upstairs? Worries me greatly.
Genesis 1974
It's 1'oclock and time for lunch bum de dum de dum
@@jezlawrence720 Exodus 4:24 On the way to Egypt, Moses stopped at a place to spend the night. The Lord met Moses at that place and tried to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint knife and circumcised her son. She took the skin and touched his feet. Then she said to Moses, “You are a bridegroom of blood to me.” 26 Zipporah said this because she had to circumcise her son. So God let Moses live.[
Is invasion and genocide a religion?
READ, STUDY!
@@jamesjukebox2386Was that your new year resolution?
@@leonardoferrari4852The definition of a cave dweller is?
@@jamesjukebox2386 I would not call your mother a cave dweller, that's a bit harsh
Yes, jihads and crusades for example.
I haven't seen anyone invited to present Palestinian point of view on the show although they are the most affected people by this conflict ie right from the 1947 not October the 7th.
Is that because they are jihadist maniacs who voted in a proscribed terrorist organisation to govern them?
I so agree….I am very disappointed in Rory and Alastair behaving like Breakfast Show hosts: thought they had more guts than just giving this guy such an easy ride :-(
@@tonyaustin4472 giving a British Jew an easy ride about what?
UK Palestine ambassador has been interviewed on this very show.
@@heinkle1 well for one thing, letting the interviewee get away with saying that anyone who criticises Zionism is being antisemitic :-)