89 octane does have some advantages and is worth the extra cost. 1) Prevents engine knock 2) Slightly better fuel economy between 1.5 and 2 mpg. 3) slightly higher acceleration 4) Contains better engine cleaning detergent additives
zarbon700 1( only prevents engine knock if it's tuned for 89 in which case it should have 89 in it. ) 2(it doesn't get better gas milage. In fact it should get sightly worse. ) 3 (again only if it's tuned for it. ) 4(that may be true. )
Ilikeboost You're 100% incorrect on all your statements. A car doesn't have to be tuned to benefit from the advantages of 89 octane because all cars ECU are designed to automatically detect the slightly different output from switching from 87 to 89 and make adjustments to leaning the mixture to compensate, which will result in slightly higher fuel economy, acceleration and prevent engine knock. Small engines will see the most boost in performance when going from 87 to 89. 89 octane is a 50/50 mixture of of 93 and 87, which means it contains the more powerful engine cleaning detergent additives found in 93, which will keep the engine more clean and run more efficiently.
zarbon700 That all depends. Ive ran 87, and 93. I kept the same MPG (12-14), the knock is less but overall it performs the same. The maybe 1-2 mpg i do get is throttle control. Why i dont use cruise control. I know my vehicle better than a computer to get MPG. Come up on a decline and see an incline. Slowly speed up to 7mpg above limit tlhit the incline and back off. Prevent the engine from down shifting. Reach the top of the small incline, kept 3rd even towing a trailer and still sat at the 13mpg mark. If i downshift letting the vehicle maintain speed, i loose 1-2 mpg. Especially towing. Ive pushed the 4mpg mark pulling burning 3/8 a tank in a small 35mile pull. Doing my own throttle control, i only burn 1/4. That was a test done on both 87 and 93. I do have to be careful for ethonal levels. Too high will cuase my engine to eat itself..
I think mid grade is just a combo of regular and premium made onsite at the station so it doesn’t really cost that much extra to provide which is probably why it’s readily offered by gas stations (it also helps use some of the premium gas up)
Greg McMullen good to know but maybe in Canada is different. For example, all Shell mid grade has 5% ethanol vs regular having 10%.... Shell V power 91 here is 0% Ethanol. Other stations here in Ontario has 10% for midgrade
Greg McMullen common highest grade is 91/RON 96-97(all stations), Esso/Exxon Supreme Plus is 93 (RON97-98) at some locations and Petro Canada Ultra 94 (RON 98-99) at some locations. I gave the approximate RON values as some people think north america has lower than usual octane ratings .... Dont know why haha despite the difference is only due to the calculation methods.
Leatherkid01 I'm a gas pump tech in the U.S. I didn't consider the differences up in Canada. I see ppl filling up all the time with 89 or 93 and say it makes their car run better. I tell them if they really want to make a difference use some non-ethanol. All of the new stations going in now are offering non-ethanol.
Here's a huge problem with a 1 high octane solution. Most people won't be driving new cars and the high price of fuel will just mean more money people will have to spend at the pumps since 90% of us drive used cars or older cars that we've decided to keep.
It is inevitable that the government will require states to charge higher fees to renew registrations on older, less efficient cars. A yearly gas guzzler tax if you will.
89 octane is mixture of 87 and 93. I don't know the ratio but years ago I worked at a shell station and when the tanker came to fill the stations tanks, I had to sign the drivers paper work which showed 87, 93, and diesel. When I ask why isn't 89 on his paper work, he said that the pumps mix the 2 fuels as you pump it into your car.
5 лет назад
One Eyed Willie It's a 50% regular 50% premium blend to achieve midgrade
Some stations are setup like that, but not all. Back in the 80s, 90s and up until maybe 10 years ago, the midgrade here was our 10 percent ethanol choice...
One quick note to add. It’s more than just the Challenger and the 300 from FCA that request mid-grade fuel. Looking through their manuals, many of the vehicles equipped with their 5.7L engine say mid-grade preferred but regular is acceptable.
Chrysler vehicles have many issues, but for the ones with the Hemi engine, the engine is not one of them. Granted the vehicle sometimes has a habit of falling apart around the engine, but why do you think they at one point had a lifetime powertrain warranty - they have an excellent engine and they know it.
Darkhorse87 Bc the 5.7 Hemi is Mexican made JUNK! All the Hemi's are made there and they all have shit quality. Impressive horsepower and torque dont mean shit when your sitting on the side of the road waiting for your tow truck.
Erik Lehnsherr You might as well throw Cummins, Power"joke", Many LS based engine GM vehicles, and even caterpillar engines if you think mexican built things are crap.
Alessandro Navarro I would absolute love for him to go back to reviewing cars but I think he might not want to do reviews anymore perhaps cause I'm sure cnet sees how many of us want Cooley back.
As a gas station owner, I've been running for over 10 years now. This both interest me but also terrifies me. We just upgraded our dispenser at a whopping six figure costs. I've always wondered if one of my dispensers would serve electric, but 95 octane would be interesting too. We have three tanks underground, 1 Premium, 1 Regular and 1 Diesel. mid grade is blended at the dispenser. I've always thought of one day adding E85, but I can't imagine adding 95. We currently have 87,89 and 93 Octane available. I hope the gas lobby prevents such a major change as infrastructure is expensive already. Voluntary is fine, some early adopters can take hold but the rest of us will stick to the original three
Hey Brian, the 2018 Mazda 6 is rated for different octane fuels. The gas in the case of the Mazda 6 does drag the car into a higher performance profile. According to Mazda's website: Horsepower, 87 octane regular unleaded fuel 227 hp @ 5,000 rpm - Horsepower, 93 octane premium unleaded fuel 250 hp @ 5,000 rpm
Ashwin Narasimhan and there are probably other cars that do it as well. My point was, unlike what Brian states in the video, sometimes running higher octane can adjust the performance. Or more accurately the car can adjust based on the octane of the fuel in the tank.
I believe you are the most correct. The newer Mazdas have sophisticated sensors and electronics that can increase the performance of the engine when you put higher octane fuel in the tank. In this case, it's not the fuel itself that increases performance, but the engine adjusting itself accordingly.
Agreed. The video is accurate for most of the drivers out there on the road. Putting 91 in your tank when your car is only tuned for 87 isn't going to make the car perform better. For the few advanced cars, like the Mazda which can adjust it's engine mapping in the ECU to take advantage of higher octane fuel, the video is "not quite" accurate. I'm just being pedantic.
Thre reason why people use premium and 91 octane+ is because in some pumps it's refined better and chances are it will be "Cleaner". The most important thing though is that premium and top grade gas is often combined with addidives that help clean your engine pistons, valves and other internal components especiall if you're on a direct injection engine.
My mother has put mid-grade in her Camry since new, I've tried cheap fuel in it when I use it and you can absolutely tell a difference, less mileage and valve chatter to start, so it seems it only likes mid-grade, it now has close too 300k on it, great car.
Mid-Grade is actually just Deluded 91 or 93 octane fuel most gas stations in-fact don't even have a designated storage tank for mid-grade fuel, they just mix regular and premium fuel together so it can achieve a 89 octane rating. As Cooley pointed out there isn't really any cars that use this fuel but with that said if you have a shortage of higher octane gas (91/93) and need to fill up it's better you do so with 89 octane rather than 87. This way gas stations can stretch what little premium fuel they have left until they are resupplied.
Not sure where you live (US I assume) but not all oil/gas products are refined or treated in the same manner and so the chemicals you may also be different. I worked at a gas station for 3 years in my younger days, they had 2 storage tanks for fuel, Regular and Premium but they did not have any type of storage tanks for premium despite the fact we sold a few hundred liters of it a week.
Some nice insight appreciate the in-depth break down of the refinement process +1 sir. I provide IT infrastructure support for multiple oil and gas companies these days but I'm not privy to the refinement process. Most I see of the back end is some flow rates of pipelines. and some other automated systems, but hey if they do treat fuel in that manner perhaps the increased cost to push the baseline octane to 91 won't be so bad and actually make it cheaper. (I doubt it though). But hey if it does drop the cost of 91 octane that's a win for me as I'm already paying for it. lol
Hammer SMith - Hah well next time I see a refill truck at a station I may ask see if that is the case, probably the easiest way to find out. At the very least the space, cost, and maintenance and inspections costs to have a dedicated 89 tank storage certainly don't seem worth it given the low number of mid-grade cars available. Hah my job is far more impressive sounding then it seems a lot of the time, occasionally I'm creating a virtual servers, by-passing security or running some fiber-optic strands , but vast majority of the time I'm turning off a printer and turning it back on again and resetting passwords and other mundane stuff. lol
That means your combustion chambers have built up enough carbon deposits to cause the compression ratio to increase, making the higher octane gas necessary. Get it cleaned up and you'll see the better mileage on 87
I live in California and we mainly have 87-89-91, and that's what I thought it was like everywhere in the States. When I went on a road trip to Colorado, however, I noticed that a lot of the low octane ratings were at 85 which meant that we would be spending more for the midgrade, 87, which is what was our minimum.
I’ve had this discussion with other car guys. None of us could come up with a reason for mid grade. All of our commuter cars called for 87 while our performance cars call for 91+. Thankfully we get 93 in my area and I’d love to see a 95 single rating. I know Costco simply offers 87 & 93 and that makes plenty of sense.
When I had my 16' Honda Accord Sport I noticed that it ran better on 89oct as opposed to 87. I also noticed that running premium did absolutely nothing compared to 89 so I stuck with 89 and got better fuel economy along with slightly better engine response. Engine compression on that particular K24 is 11.1:1 which is higher than most others in the segment. To my knowledge higher compression engines benefit from higher octane fuel so it made sense to me.
Prince Charming we have a 2014 CRV with a similar engine (also a K24, but it's got less power and compression) and for us, we can't tell any difference between 87 and anything higher
I used to haul fuel from s1 refinery down in Louisiana and i can tell you there is no diffrence between regular and mid grade i dumped from the same baffle. Most of the time the premium underground tank waa topped off with what i had left in the front baffle tank. Mainly did that at walmart gas stations. Most other stations didnt allow it. So if you have to run premium dont get it from walmart. Stations that where really strict on what they received where Marathon number one and Mobile. They would turn down a shipment if it didn't test 7 or above. Hell i never had to test a load before i dumped at walmart.
Willie B. Hardigan no, 91 is quite common where I live in NY, however I do still see stations that are only 87, 89, and 93, and a few stations that adapted to selling non-ethanol are only 87,89, and 90
From my understanding, midgrade fuel is a literal mix of regular and premium grade fuels. Like, it's literally mixed right there at the pump. There are only 2 tanks in the gas station ground.
The transition to a more expensive gas will affect the poor and lower middle class the most, as they won't be first on the bandwagon when the new cars needing that come out, and their older cars won't benefit from better gas they are forced to buy.
It depends on how the higher octane is achieved - if they achieve it by putting ethanol in the fuel then it will actually make fuel cheaper, but it may also require that some vehicles have some minor engine modifications to correct for the higher fuel/air ratio(Many fuel injected cars might need some electronics in between the ECU and injectors, but carbourated engines would probably only need a minor adjustment)
If you're so poor that you can't afford to pay an extra 20 cents per gallon for higher octane fuel if you're required to, you can't afford to be driving a car in the first place. Maybe you should re-evaluate your life choices and perhaps try to improve your work ethic and make more money.
JR: Ah, I hadn't considered the source of the octane improvement! GR: It doesn't work like that, actually, as those at the lowest income brackets already see gas as a large expense, while those who are able to escape that financial situation can almost be unaffected by the cost doubling. The cost of basic goods rising makes "hard work" something that isn't the magic cure-all for people's problems it apparently once was, and in the US, you probably need some sort of permit to do that anyway.
Using ethanol is pointless, yes it absolutely will increase the ability of a engine to run on more compression/advanced timing. But ethanol has 30% less energy by volume than gasoline. So the gain in power would be offset by the increased mpg needed to make up for the energy loss from ethanol. Ex: my truck gets roughly 285hp/305tq on reg gas and about 22mpg highway. If I were to run e85(85%ethanol and 15% gas. My engine is flex fuel and can because it automatically can retune itself to the grade of gas in the tank) I jump to 297hp/330tq but drop to 19mpg. Even tho e85 is a Lot cheaper (And yes I'm aware the new fuel will not have that much ethanol,probably closer to 20%) the fuel mileage loss makes it pointless to not use regular. Also if I run premium it's the same idea. Minor gain in hp/tq and minor gain in mpg but not enough to offset the cost. Granted I'm in Canada and the price difference here between grades can be $.50-$1/gallon from regular to premium
I'm glad I live in an area where regular is 87, midgrade is 91, and premium is 93. I actually don't know anywhere that sells 91 as premium around here.
If you drive a modern car with a Turbo Charged engine that specifies 87 octane, you should use 89 Octane instead. The engine will perform slightly better. If you are a turtle type driver then it doesn't matter. The Engine Management System will adjust to 87 octane fuel by reducing engine performance. I am an Automotive Tech with over 40 years experience. Todays engine management systems adjust to the octane level of the fuel that is being consumed by the engine. Even if you own a modern car that specifies High Octane Fuel, the engine manage system will adjust accordingly.
Basically you can run whatever minimum octane fuel the car specifies but you will gain a little performance from running premium. Some have actually noted that the engine actually makes slightly more power when using higher octane fuel. I guess using lower octane fuel would have the opposite effect. The car would probably still run fine, just would have a little less power. I would guess fuel economy would be better with the higher octane fuel as well. I know people have noted noticably poorer fuel economy and less power with E85 fuel. It does cost considerably less than even 87 octane. I don't think I would ever use it in any vehicle even if it were a flex fuel vehicle that allowed it.
Soda beverage has more calories than water, despite the energy spike I receive from it, it’s not worth my overall health. If you plan to keep your vehicle for not too long while a new technology arrives in the market than gasoline is the choice for you. Similar to drug addicts, if that is what your car is.
Because for 99.999% of vehicles E10(and higher blends for that matter) are superior fuels to No-Ethanol gasoline blends. I could have sworn the majority of the 0.001% were scooters and things powered by 2-stroke engines(these tend to not be happy with ethanol in the fuel but are very smoggy engines anyway)
John Rickard My gas mileage is always better when using pure gas. I just wish there was a bigger market so they could put more money into it to make better blends. My car just runs better with it.
Well then you have discovered your car's favorite fuel. Unfortunately I'm fairly certain that it's a fuel type that's going to be obsolete soon so there's that. I'm working on chipping my vehicle to run on E85 since it's one of those cars with a tiny engine but a big turbo, and it really appreciates the high octane rating of ethanol-based fuels if only the ECU wouldn't get so wound tight about the required ratio corrections. To be fair, ethanol's energy density is somewhere around 60-70% that of gasoline or something along those lines, so a drop in fuel economy is expected, but are you sure that the decrease in $ per gallon isn't offsetting your refueling costs?
Smaller engines in powersports vehicles like atvs and motorcycles do benefit from non ethanol gas. My local Shell station's 93 octane gas is ethanol free.
95ron gas is equivalent to 91 R+M (what you see at the pump in the US). In texas, most stations carry 93, not 91. So a switch to 95ron would actually be an octane decrease for me.
95RON should equate to 91 ResearchOctane. So they just want to build higher compression engines like BMW and Mercedes sport. Notice that owners manual said 87 ResearchOctane or 91 RON (being about the same thing). Europe shows RON on their pumps. It is more likely that international car companies truly just want to have ONE TIMING AND TUNING SETTING worldwide. They won't give us 70mpg cars, or they would have done it long ago. #1 that is hard. #2 where's the profit. Comfy cars is what people buy. Comfy means, bigger cabins and bigger alternators. What we should expect is the mileage you see in Europe where the lowest compression gas is typically 93 or 95RON. Adjust for imperial gallons being 1/4 bigger, then a Fiesta-S 5speed getting 40mpg in the US should equal 50mpg in the UK. However they do even better than that because the engines are tuned for higher octane. They get about 60 miles per imperial gallon. That would be 45 mpg US. Ethanol is an octane booster. Add 10% Ethyl and you bring up the octane by 4 points. So your 87 E10 is made from 83 octane piss-poor petroleum. If the US is going to 91/93 research (95 RON) then expect 15% Ethanol in your future. Easiest way to boost poor petrol.
There are two grades they are mixed for 89. Higher octane is sensed in some new engines adjusting timing and producing more power. Only 20-30% of the energy in gas is used to power the car.
You also have to consider that a lot of old cars from the 70s and 80s require 89 octane. My parents had a ‘86 Buick Grand National that required 89 octane. So even though virtually no new cars use it, there’s a lot of legacy clientele built in.
Most cars that require premium require 91 octane. For my cars that require 91, I usually fill my tank at half tank and alternate between the 89 and 93 for an average of 91. Simple way to save some money while still using the gas my car was designed for.
I think most new cars within a few years should be able to take advantage of higher octane. The ecu should take the base timing map for that load/rpm and try to optimize timing by looking at the knock sensor.
If your not racing use nothing but E85. E85 is smoother than 89 but you will lose torque and full throttle but it all makes up in the mid range and oil quality.
E85 13B Not everyone has a flex-fuel vehicle though(and not everyone has the kit installed that corrects that design flaw). Best to assertain if their vehicle can run on that fuel before recommending it.
I should probably add that E85 is actually FAR superior for performance applications compared to gasoline thanks to burning cooler and having a higher octane rating
Flex fuel is negligible. I had a factory flex fuel tune and it performed less than a non flex factory tune. It is all in the injectors and ignition map. Besides, non flex can take advantage of lean injection for comparable figures to gasoline. In some circumstances same mileage can be achieved.
Sounds like your vehicle's E85 mode was more of a bodge than anything. Properly tuned, E85 cars have more performance than their gasoline counterparts. It's all over the Passat forums - and in fact is one of the most common mods for this car. I'm just not bothering with the performance tuning though I figure my car's ECU will be smart enough to at least pick up on the higher octane and at least advance the timing if not pump up the boost pressure.
Some older engines that have accumulated carbon over their lifetime may start knocking. You can either spend lots of money to clean it or you can save money and just use higher octane to prevent detonation. So while the engines will still run on lower octane, some circumstances call for a bump in octane rating to make a car perform better than manufacture specs
@@panglingaow I've been building engines for over 16 years with great results. I've noticed running 89 is the magic number... Not to rich and/or hot.. There's a lot of Science and first-hand knowledge involved,
I hope my car continues to run through all of this. It's one of the few cars I've ever seen that says it can perform just fine on regular fuel but prefers premium. Which means it's should be fine with anything in between as well. 2010 Lincoln MKS Ecoboost
That short dodge challanger clip in the biggining of the video was recorded close to my home town l, the dalles, Oregon. I recognised the road it was on lol
One high grade sounds great. Right now those of us in the 2 wheel world, with much smaller fuel tanks, are paying for premium fuel, but chances are that single handle nozzle is loaded with regular from the previous customer. Some of those hoses are pretty long.
here in Europe, our regular gas is actually 95 RON (the one car manufacturers want in the US). it's kinda weird because a lot of basic, non-performace cars run on what would be premium in the US. 95 RON = 91 AKI (US) of course almost all cars are at least turbocharged, but some small cars are still naturally aspirated and even though they say they could run on 91 RON (87 in the US), 95 RON (91 in the US) is still recommended. 91 RON / 87 US is only available in a few stations in Germany and Austria, but even over there everyone runs on 95. it kinda feels like a waste. also, when you get a performance car, people tend to buy premium (which is 98 where I live, 97 or 98 in the UK, but can go up to 100 in Shell Race gas stations). 98 RON would equal to 94 in the US. So your performance cars run on what our Golf's and Civic's run on? it's not because of the downsized cars because we literally never had anything less than 95(91)! only difference is, since 2017 95 contains 10% ethanol and 98 doesn't. so lawnmowers or older cars might want to use 98 because the ethanol might be bad for tubes / rubbers and whatever the gas flows through Also, speaking about that 5.7 V8, in the US it runs on 91 (87) in most vehicles, and over here it's recommended (not required) to use 95 (91). the 5.7 is naturally aspirated tho. so weird.
I had a 2015 Chrysler 300 with the HEMI and I only ever ran regular 87 in it. I believe the manual said “premium recommended but not required,” and I never had any issues with the performance on 87.
"Adding higher octane grades, unless your car says so, adds no performance improvements" You say so, but my Dodge Caliber feel so much better with mid-grade than 87. I only go back to 87 to pass the emission test as mid grade causes my check engine light to turn on. I get my Caliber is designed for 87, but it feels terrible to drive. Using a higher grade solved my problem.
It's a myth that's starting to come true. Turbo engines and a good chunk of modern engines do actually get a little extra hp, but it has to do with the electronics being able to adjust to the higher octane and running a little more efficiently. 6.2 in the Ford trucks are a decent example.
Most modern performance engines will run fine on regular gas, even if they say use premium. They’ll just alter their timing to prevent knock, at the expense of some horsepower.
Ethanol is a scam to raise the price paid for corn to farmers. 10% entanol and 10% worse mileage, is actually negative since it takes energy to raise and process the corn.
In my experience I've never seen such a large change in fuel economy between regular and non-ethanol, ran through a couple tanks of non-ethanol compared to regular 87, and the differences are small, I only observed 0.3-0.8 MPG difference
Justin Noker what vehicle did you use for the test ? sometimes they program the cars computer system to adjust for no benefit. The newer models were designed for government emissions
Justin Noker hmm that's interesting. pure gas has a higher btu it should of had a noticeable jump . there's other facts involved affecting mpg so it depends
If your car is pinging at 87, bump up to 89. Geez it’s not that difficult to understand. People want different grades to deal with vehicles in various rates of disrepair
Have always thought that if you want 89 octane just fill up half of regular and supreme yourself as the gas station will probably rip people off by giving it a 20/80 mix for greater profit.
Elaborate what problems ethanol may have? I use E85 on stock injectors where it is slower than gasoline but my mileage is same and cost less at the pump.
E85 13B E85 isn’t common in a lot of areas. Unless you’re running a flex fuel vehicle or have a tune you will ruin you car. It’s impossible to get the same MPGs as e85 has less energy and needs a richer AF. Cheaper per gallon yes but you use more of it. You will make more power on a tuned or flex fuel vehicle. Based on what you’ve said I’m guessing you’re putting E85 in a car not made for it or tuned?
Think of a frozen yogurt machine: the left handle is for vanilla (regular). The right handle is chocolate (premium). Mid grade fuel is analogous to the handle in the middle for swirl. Regular and mid-grade are “swirled” at the pump, resulting in 89 octane. While there isn’t much demand specifically for mid grade, it doesn’t really cost extra to have it as an offering.
If the percentages of purchased fuel are 83, 10 and 7 then that tells me that a lot of people who drive vehicles that require 91 are putting in 87 or even 89. Those cheap bastards. Tsk tsk
ben lee ... unless your car's engine is designed to operate with 91+ octane fuel. Since those motors involve higher compression ratios, I would think using 87 octane would risk knock in the combustion process which can damage the motor over time.
There are a few cars that are like that I believe Honda sold. V6 was that way, but both MyMazda and Toyota both run better on a higher octane even though it calls for 87 my theory is when it’s brand new it might not make much of a difference but you got 80,000 miles on there with some carbon deposits that effectively raise compression I do feel like putting higher octane in those enginesdoes make a difference No a valid argument might be. Is it enough to make the price worth? It doesn’t matter to you you can make those argument.
Unless you get a tune for your car to push more timing from the cam shaft, more octane is useless. Although things like ethanol can clean up your valves
"Higher octane doesn't provide any benefit." That's no longer true, most cars are designed to run on 87 nowadays but will run better on 91 or 93. Modern cars have knock sensors and essentially up or lower the timing to right below where it no longer detects detonation. In an f150 ecoboost , it calls for 87 , but when run on 93 will make more power. Same deal with the 5.0 in the mustang. The silverado with the 6.2 recommends 93 but explicitly says 87 can be used. Keeping in mind with 87 it likely dials down the timing and sacrifices a few hp. The ecoboost 2.3 in the mustang can be run on 87, but only makes full power on 93. etc
Mid grade is prem and standard mixed most time. Also, fords ecoboost engines HP and torque is usually based on 93 octane if I’m not mistaken. The engine supposedly adapts to the octane you run
my friend how safe is the jack that comes with most cars i would like to see the safe usage of the jack when the temp is 40 degrees and you are on a hill
It has to do with altitude and compression ratio. If you live at a high altitude (above 4000') you can probably use lower octane fuel without detonation on a non turbo engine. So why not just use the highest octane available? Because it's unecessarily expensive.
Sensors in the engine that are able to detect if the fuel is prematurely detonating before spark is applied to ignite it. If it detects knock the ECU will reduce the effective compression ratio of the engine by decreasing boost pressure and/or delaying the closure of the inlet valves after the 1st(intake) stroke into the 2nd(compression) stroke.
I’m curious how you did your research, the owners manual of my dad‘s Cadillac ATS specifically says that the 2L turbo models need 89 or higher, his 3.6 V6 says it can run on 87, but the dealer (who has no stake in the gas used) and most forums recommend using mid grade. My brother has an eco boost mustang, it’s manual says it can use any grade, however, higher grades will result in better performance, 91/93 is expensive, so he typically uses 89 as a compromise.
I went from a civic to a Lexus and the premium fuel shock lasted about a month before I got used to it. It’s really only a couple bucks more a week than regular for a much better driving experience.
Here's why I use mid-grade fuel, even though my cars don't require it. Back in the days when the gas stations would switch between 10% ethanol and no ethanol based on the seasons, I would notice a dramatic decrease in fuel economy with the ethanol gas. I mentioned this to the gas station attendant and he recommended trying the mid-grade fuel. I did and low and behold, my fuel economy went up 10%! I did this on two cars and got the same result. So If I pay 10 cents more a gallon, I get 10% better mileage. That's just good economics. Of course, I tried going to the premium grade to see if there was any further improvement and there wasn't so I now just by mid-grade fuel all the time. I also buy mid-grade fuel for my small engines because I strip out the ethanol which lowers the octane so I need to start with a higher octane.
it's interesting because in Europe the lowest you can get at the pump is 95 RON. That's the baseline, then there is the midgrade 98 (rare) and the 100RON. People buy the most expensive because of the BELIEF it cleans and some premium cars require it or because it has low ethanol content (a substitue alcohol can be used so the shelf-life is much longer too). Since E10 is a must, many people buy premium for their older cars. In Ukraine you can get a 92 RON octane gas that fits old soviet block cars (old. Skodas, Ladas...).
My 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit with the 5.7L Hemi recommends 89 octane for "optimum performance" but can run just fine on 87 and that is all I've ever put into it. I've never had any issues with 87 octane and I also only use top tier gas.
Probably premium since running a higher octane than your vehicle requires won't damage anything. If it's a higher ethanol blend it might turn on your MIL(It will give a "System Too Lean" message if this happens) though so be advised about that.
Fuel injected cars are designed to adjust for the fuel you use... As cars age some need higher octane to offset carbon buildup in the combustion chamber Owners manuals only apply till the warranty runs out then your on your own in more ways than one.
Hi. Say I recently traveled through NM& TX and I notice there was a few gas stations that sold 85-86 octane fuel. I bought this gas only because at the time this was the only station in the area( TX is a large state) my car ran ok with this fuel.. I drive a 09 Camry,with a 2.4L engine. What's the story on this lower octane fuel?
Lmao...I'm one of the 7%. I drive a Versa thru the streets of Chicago daily and fill up with it, every couple of weeks. It just adds to the driving fun factor and mpg has wonderful.
In 2009, My new wife and I went on a road trip honeymoon from PDX > Couer d'Alene >Glacier> Billings> Twin Falls>PDX. We were driving in a 1997 Lincoln Mk VIII. It was in Whitefish that I found Non-ethanol Premium(93 octane) fuel. That was the best fuel I ever had as I was doing 75 mph on the highway, with the ac on and getting 34 MPG. Between Billings and Twin falls that fell to 31. From Twin Falls to Pendleton that again fell to 28 MPG. From Pendleton to PDX, going 55 mph on i84 with no ac. I was getting 26 mpg. I wouldn't doubt with that same fuel and perhaps traveling through some long flat stretch like Nebraska; I probably could have topped out at 36 MPG. Ethanol suck.
My Infiniti Q50 calls for premium 89. It states it right inside the gas cover. But I always wondered what will happen when if I used regular unleaded..
The owner's manual of my 2018 Ford F-150 with the standard 3.3L NA engine states that modest horsepower gains can be acheived with increased octane. My guess is that the knock sensor will permit advanced timing when it senses higher octane fuel. This lowly 290 hp base engine has a 7000 rpm redline. Reving it out to even 5500 rpm, this truck which weighs 4100 lb gets right with it. Surprised me the first time I punched it. Only 1600 miles on the truck, so I haven't run it all the way to redline. Sport mode on the 6 speed auto is very impressive.
It's a trick to help companies meet CAFE standards for fleet fuel economy. An engine tuned to 89 can get marginally better economy, although manufacturers make the computer recognize and run with 87 anyway. But by claiming it requires 89, they can report the higher mpg to the govt to get lower corporate taxes.
89 octane is like the awkward middle child of pump gas lol
89 octane does have some advantages and is worth the extra cost.
1) Prevents engine knock
2) Slightly better fuel economy between 1.5 and 2 mpg.
3) slightly higher acceleration
4) Contains better engine cleaning detergent additives
zarbon700
1( only prevents engine knock if it's tuned for 89 in which case it should have 89 in it. )
2(it doesn't get better gas milage. In fact it should get sightly worse. )
3 (again only if it's tuned for it. )
4(that may be true. )
Ilikeboost You're 100% incorrect on all your statements. A car doesn't have to be tuned to benefit from the advantages of 89 octane because all cars ECU are designed to automatically detect the slightly different output from switching from 87 to 89 and make adjustments to leaning the mixture to compensate, which will result in slightly higher fuel economy, acceleration and prevent engine knock. Small engines will see the most boost in performance when going from 87 to 89. 89 octane is a 50/50 mixture of of 93 and 87, which means it contains the more powerful engine cleaning detergent additives found in 93, which will keep the engine more clean and run more efficiently.
zarbon700 That all depends. Ive ran 87, and 93. I kept the same MPG (12-14), the knock is less but overall it performs the same. The maybe 1-2 mpg i do get is throttle control. Why i dont use cruise control. I know my vehicle better than a computer to get MPG. Come up on a decline and see an incline. Slowly speed up to 7mpg above limit tlhit the incline and back off. Prevent the engine from down shifting. Reach the top of the small incline, kept 3rd even towing a trailer and still sat at the 13mpg mark. If i downshift letting the vehicle maintain speed, i loose 1-2 mpg. Especially towing. Ive pushed the 4mpg mark pulling burning 3/8 a tank in a small 35mile pull. Doing my own throttle control, i only burn 1/4. That was a test done on both 87 and 93. I do have to be careful for ethonal levels. Too high will cuase my engine to eat itself..
if your car need 89 either you have a snowflake or your car got some problems.
I think mid grade is just a combo of regular and premium made onsite at the station so it doesn’t really cost that much extra to provide which is probably why it’s readily offered by gas stations (it also helps use some of the premium gas up)
Clarence Taylor this is true... The blender blends a 50/50 mix to get 89(RON 93-94)
Leatherkid01 The mix is usually 65% 87 and 35% 91 or 93, depending on which higher grade you're using.
Greg McMullen good to know but maybe in Canada is different. For example, all Shell mid grade has 5% ethanol vs regular having 10%.... Shell V power 91 here is 0% Ethanol. Other stations here in Ontario has 10% for midgrade
Greg McMullen common highest grade is 91/RON 96-97(all stations), Esso/Exxon Supreme Plus is 93 (RON97-98) at some locations and Petro Canada Ultra 94 (RON 98-99) at some locations. I gave the approximate RON values as some people think north america has lower than usual octane ratings .... Dont know why haha despite the difference is only due to the calculation methods.
Leatherkid01 I'm a gas pump tech in the U.S. I didn't consider the differences up in Canada. I see ppl filling up all the time with 89 or 93 and say it makes their car run better. I tell them if they really want to make a difference use some non-ethanol. All of the new stations going in now are offering non-ethanol.
Here's a huge problem with a 1 high octane solution. Most people won't be driving new cars and the high price of fuel will just mean more money people will have to spend at the pumps since 90% of us drive used cars or older cars that we've decided to keep.
I was thinking the same thing.
I think if it's only one gasoline blend the price will be close to what 87 is right now.
And that means you are likely to buy new cars that are lobbied from the manufacturers that want a 1 octane solution. What's the problem here? :P
It is inevitable that the government will require states to charge higher fees to renew registrations on older, less efficient cars. A yearly gas guzzler tax if you will.
Benjamin Burkhardt It’s rated differently in Europe, it’s not higher octane.
I have a V6 accord and i can swear it just drives better with 93 octane . It just glides going through gears , unlike 87 :(
No kidding of course it does your accord V6 is high compression it needs 91 minimum to run properly
89 octane is mixture of 87 and 93. I don't know the ratio but years ago I worked at a shell station and when the tanker came to fill the stations tanks, I had to sign the drivers paper work which showed 87, 93, and diesel. When I ask why isn't 89 on his paper work, he said that the pumps mix the 2 fuels as you pump it into your car.
One Eyed Willie
It's a 50% regular 50% premium blend to achieve midgrade
Some stations are setup like that, but not all. Back in the 80s, 90s and up until maybe 10 years ago, the midgrade here was our 10 percent ethanol choice...
One quick note to add. It’s more than just the Challenger and the 300 from FCA that request mid-grade fuel. Looking through their manuals, many of the vehicles equipped with their 5.7L engine say mid-grade preferred but regular is acceptable.
Yeah that’s the problem it’s a chrystler
Yeah I noticed that about any non SRT hemis to include the 6.4 in the 2500.
Chrysler vehicles have many issues, but for the ones with the Hemi engine, the engine is not one of them. Granted the vehicle sometimes has a habit of falling apart around the engine, but why do you think they at one point had a lifetime powertrain warranty - they have an excellent engine and they know it.
Darkhorse87
Bc the 5.7 Hemi is Mexican made JUNK! All the Hemi's are made there and they all have shit quality. Impressive horsepower and torque dont mean shit when your sitting on the side of the road waiting for your tow truck.
Erik Lehnsherr You might as well throw Cummins, Power"joke", Many LS based engine GM vehicles, and even caterpillar engines if you think mexican built things are crap.
"Pass the savings along to the customer." HEH! HEH! That makes me laugh every time!
Thanks for answering another one of my emails. Second time! Love your videos, Brian!
Bring back Cooley on cars
Alessandro Navarro I would absolute love for him to go back to reviewing cars but I think he might not want to do reviews anymore perhaps cause I'm sure cnet sees how many of us want Cooley back.
As a gas station owner, I've been running for over 10 years now. This both interest me but also terrifies me. We just upgraded our dispenser at a whopping six figure costs. I've always wondered if one of my dispensers would serve electric, but 95 octane would be interesting too. We have three tanks underground, 1 Premium, 1 Regular and 1 Diesel. mid grade is blended at the dispenser. I've always thought of one day adding E85, but I can't imagine adding 95. We currently have 87,89 and 93 Octane available. I hope the gas lobby prevents such a major change as infrastructure is expensive already. Voluntary is fine, some early adopters can take hold but the rest of us will stick to the original three
Hey Brian, the 2018 Mazda 6 is rated for different octane fuels. The gas in the case of the Mazda 6 does drag the car into a higher performance profile. According to Mazda's website: Horsepower, 87 octane regular unleaded fuel 227 hp @ 5,000 rpm - Horsepower, 93 octane premium unleaded fuel 250 hp @ 5,000 rpm
Todd Barber The Lincoln Navigator does this as well.
Ashwin Narasimhan and there are probably other cars that do it as well. My point was, unlike what Brian states in the video, sometimes running higher octane can adjust the performance. Or more accurately the car can adjust based on the octane of the fuel in the tank.
I believe you are the most correct. The newer Mazdas have sophisticated sensors and electronics that can increase the performance of the engine when you put higher octane fuel in the tank. In this case, it's not the fuel itself that increases performance, but the engine adjusting itself accordingly.
Agreed. The video is accurate for most of the drivers out there on the road. Putting 91 in your tank when your car is only tuned for 87 isn't going to make the car perform better. For the few advanced cars, like the Mazda which can adjust it's engine mapping in the ECU to take advantage of higher octane fuel, the video is "not quite" accurate. I'm just being pedantic.
Yup, Hondas are known for this as well
My 3.5L Charger’s manual suggests mid-grade 89. I’ve ran regular a few times with no problems. 110K miles and counting.
Thre reason why people use premium and 91 octane+ is because in some pumps it's refined better and chances are it will be "Cleaner". The most important thing though is that premium and top grade gas is often combined with addidives that help clean your engine pistons, valves and other internal components especiall if you're on a direct injection engine.
My mother has put mid-grade in her Camry since new, I've tried cheap fuel in it when I use it and you can absolutely tell a difference, less mileage and valve chatter to start, so it seems it only likes mid-grade, it now has close too 300k on it, great car.
Mid-Grade is actually just Deluded 91 or 93 octane fuel most gas stations in-fact don't even have a designated storage tank for mid-grade fuel, they just mix regular and premium fuel together so it can achieve a 89 octane rating.
As Cooley pointed out there isn't really any cars that use this fuel but with that said if you have a shortage of higher octane gas (91/93) and need to fill up it's better you do so with 89 octane rather than 87. This way gas stations can stretch what little premium fuel they have left until they are resupplied.
Not sure where you live (US I assume) but not all oil/gas products are refined or treated in the same manner and so the chemicals you may also be different.
I worked at a gas station for 3 years in my younger days, they had 2 storage tanks for fuel, Regular and Premium but they did not have any type of storage tanks for premium despite the fact we sold a few hundred liters of it a week.
Some nice insight appreciate the in-depth break down of the refinement process +1 sir. I provide IT infrastructure support for multiple oil and gas companies these days but I'm not privy to the refinement process.
Most I see of the back end is some flow rates of pipelines. and some other automated systems, but hey if they do treat fuel in that manner perhaps the increased cost to push the baseline octane to 91 won't be so bad and actually make it cheaper. (I doubt it though).
But hey if it does drop the cost of 91 octane that's a win for me as I'm already paying for it. lol
Hammer SMith - Hah well next time I see a refill truck at a station I may ask see if that is the case, probably the easiest way to find out. At the very least the space, cost, and maintenance and inspections costs to have a dedicated 89 tank storage certainly don't seem worth it given the low number of mid-grade cars available.
Hah my job is far more impressive sounding then it seems a lot of the time, occasionally I'm creating a virtual servers, by-passing security or running some fiber-optic strands , but vast majority of the time I'm turning off a printer and turning it back on again and resetting passwords and other mundane stuff. lol
BigHeadClan
Diluted*
Rusty Shackleford Damn that single mistake just invalidated my entire point??
Curse your cold black heart Rusty!
89 is an easy octane to offer, since they blend the higher and lower octanes at the pump.
All 5.7 hemi use 89 doesn’t matter the chassis it’s in
And do not use a lower grade gas as this can raise combustion temperatures possibly contributing to dropped valve seats on the 5.7
The supply and demand side of things will make it such that a higher octane will cost about what regular does today. Many people seem to miss that.
I used premium gas on my civic a couple of times and noticed a jump in mileage. I suppose it can be worth it depending on the price gaps in your area
That means your combustion chambers have built up enough carbon deposits to cause the compression ratio to increase, making the higher octane gas necessary. Get it cleaned up and you'll see the better mileage on 87
The Volvo-Penta in my old boat called for 89. That’s the only vehicle I’ve ever owned that called for 89.
I live in California and we mainly have 87-89-91, and that's what I thought it was like everywhere in the States. When I went on a road trip to Colorado, however, I noticed that a lot of the low octane ratings were at 85 which meant that we would be spending more for the midgrade, 87, which is what was our minimum.
Because of the higher elevation, the air is less dense so vehicles can run good on a lower octane.
I have a 2017 Toyota Highlander Limited Platinum should I use 87 grade or stick to 95 grade
W Stephens 87 is good for new cars that require regular gas
I can feel the difference in the amount of pressure I have to put on the peddle.
Many gas stations in the Rocky Mountains have 85 Regular 88 Midgrade 91 Premium. That's the only time I ever pumped Midgrade
I’ve had this discussion with other car guys. None of us could come up with a reason for mid grade. All of our commuter cars called for 87 while our performance cars call for 91+. Thankfully we get 93 in my area and I’d love to see a 95 single rating.
I know Costco simply offers 87 & 93 and that makes plenty of sense.
The manufactures don't blend mid-grade it's Blended at the pump and it pulls it from the high octane and the low octane to get the mid-grade
When I had my 16' Honda Accord Sport I noticed that it ran better on 89oct as opposed to 87. I also noticed that running premium did absolutely nothing compared to 89 so I stuck with 89 and got better fuel economy along with slightly better engine response. Engine compression on that particular K24 is 11.1:1 which is higher than most others in the segment. To my knowledge higher compression engines benefit from higher octane fuel so it made sense to me.
Prince Charming we have a 2014 CRV with a similar engine (also a K24, but it's got less power and compression) and for us, we can't tell any difference between 87 and anything higher
I used to haul fuel from s1 refinery down in Louisiana and i can tell you there is no diffrence between regular and mid grade i dumped from the same baffle. Most of the time the premium underground tank waa topped off with what i had left in the front baffle tank. Mainly did that at walmart gas stations. Most other stations didnt allow it. So if you have to run premium dont get it from walmart. Stations that where really strict on what they received where Marathon number one and Mobile. They would turn down a shipment if it didn't test 7 or above. Hell i never had to test a load before i dumped at walmart.
Is 91 octane only in California? I live in Illinois and ive been to alot of other states and its always 87, 89, and 93. Ive literally never seen 91.
Willie B. Hardigan true. Me neither. Also some Southern states have 91 instead of 89 at amny gas stations
my state offer 91 and 93. Just depends on the station. Think Shell is 93, Exxon is 91, and HEB is 93.
Willie B. Hardigan no, 91 is quite common where I live in NY, however I do still see stations that are only 87, 89, and 93, and a few stations that adapted to selling non-ethanol are only 87,89, and 90
All over Minnesota
Colorado is 91 only. Never seen 93 here
From my understanding, midgrade fuel is a literal mix of regular and premium grade fuels. Like, it's literally mixed right there at the pump. There are only 2 tanks in the gas station ground.
dont the different octanes have different detonation ?
The transition to a more expensive gas will affect the poor and lower middle class the most, as they won't be first on the bandwagon when the new cars needing that come out, and their older cars won't benefit from better gas they are forced to buy.
It depends on how the higher octane is achieved - if they achieve it by putting ethanol in the fuel then it will actually make fuel cheaper, but it may also require that some vehicles have some minor engine modifications to correct for the higher fuel/air ratio(Many fuel injected cars might need some electronics in between the ECU and injectors, but carbourated engines would probably only need a minor adjustment)
If you're so poor that you can't afford to pay an extra 20 cents per gallon for higher octane fuel if you're required to, you can't afford to be driving a car in the first place. Maybe you should re-evaluate your life choices and perhaps try to improve your work ethic and make more money.
JR: Ah, I hadn't considered the source of the octane improvement!
GR: It doesn't work like that, actually, as those at the lowest income brackets already see gas as a large expense, while those who are able to escape that financial situation can almost be unaffected by the cost doubling. The cost of basic goods rising makes "hard work" something that isn't the magic cure-all for people's problems it apparently once was, and in the US, you probably need some sort of permit to do that anyway.
Using ethanol is pointless, yes it absolutely will increase the ability of a engine to run on more compression/advanced timing. But ethanol has 30% less energy by volume than gasoline. So the gain in power would be offset by the increased mpg needed to make up for the energy loss from ethanol. Ex: my truck gets roughly 285hp/305tq on reg gas and about 22mpg highway. If I were to run e85(85%ethanol and 15% gas. My engine is flex fuel and can because it automatically can retune itself to the grade of gas in the tank) I jump to 297hp/330tq but drop to 19mpg. Even tho e85 is a Lot cheaper (And yes I'm aware the new fuel will not have that much ethanol,probably closer to 20%) the fuel mileage loss makes it pointless to not use regular. Also if I run premium it's the same idea. Minor gain in hp/tq and minor gain in mpg but not enough to offset the cost. Granted I'm in Canada and the price difference here between grades can be $.50-$1/gallon from regular to premium
Cars Simplified
If they got rid of the infrastructure needed to support 87 & 89 you'd be able to buy 91 for less than what 87 sells for now.
Great question. Thanks for covering this.
I only use 93, was pissed when they told me they only had 91 in Pennsylvania. Drove like 4 miles to get 93
Davie Blaze In Canada 94 Octane is available
I'm glad I live in an area where regular is 87, midgrade is 91, and premium is 93. I actually don't know anywhere that sells 91 as premium around here.
If you drive a modern car with a Turbo Charged engine that specifies 87 octane, you should use 89 Octane instead. The engine will perform slightly better. If you are a turtle type driver then it doesn't matter. The Engine Management System will adjust to 87 octane fuel by reducing engine performance. I am an Automotive Tech with over 40 years experience. Todays engine management systems adjust to the octane level of the fuel that is being consumed by the engine. Even if you own a modern car that specifies High Octane Fuel, the engine manage system will adjust accordingly.
Basically you can run whatever minimum octane fuel the car specifies but you will gain a little performance from running premium. Some have actually noted that the engine actually makes slightly more power when using higher octane fuel. I guess using lower octane fuel would have the opposite effect. The car would probably still run fine, just would have a little less power. I would guess fuel economy would be better with the higher octane fuel as well. I know people have noted noticably poorer fuel economy and less power with E85 fuel. It does cost considerably less than even 87 octane. I don't think I would ever use it in any vehicle even if it were a flex fuel vehicle that allowed it.
Soda beverage has more calories than water, despite the energy spike I receive from it, it’s not worth my overall health. If you plan to keep your vehicle for not too long while a new technology arrives in the market than gasoline is the choice for you. Similar to drug addicts, if that is what your car is.
E85 13B who owns you?
I like to put ethanol free gas in my vehicle. Why is it that barely any stations carry it?
Because for 99.999% of vehicles E10(and higher blends for that matter) are superior fuels to No-Ethanol gasoline blends. I could have sworn the majority of the 0.001% were scooters and things powered by 2-stroke engines(these tend to not be happy with ethanol in the fuel but are very smoggy engines anyway)
John Rickard My gas mileage is always better when using pure gas. I just wish there was a bigger market so they could put more money into it to make better blends. My car just runs better with it.
Well then you have discovered your car's favorite fuel. Unfortunately I'm fairly certain that it's a fuel type that's going to be obsolete soon so there's that. I'm working on chipping my vehicle to run on E85 since it's one of those cars with a tiny engine but a big turbo, and it really appreciates the high octane rating of ethanol-based fuels if only the ECU wouldn't get so wound tight about the required ratio corrections. To be fair, ethanol's energy density is somewhere around 60-70% that of gasoline or something along those lines, so a drop in fuel economy is expected, but are you sure that the decrease in $ per gallon isn't offsetting your refueling costs?
Smaller engines in powersports vehicles like atvs and motorcycles do benefit from non ethanol gas. My local Shell station's 93 octane gas is ethanol free.
jason9022 fuck off you liberal tyt troll. Trump has nothing to do with this you ignorant fuck.
95ron gas is equivalent to 91 R+M (what you see at the pump in the US). In texas, most stations carry 93, not 91. So a switch to 95ron would actually be an octane decrease for me.
Why is 85 regular in the mountain states? Then you have to buy the mid grade there
95RON should equate to 91 ResearchOctane. So they just want to build higher compression engines like BMW and Mercedes sport. Notice that owners manual said 87 ResearchOctane or 91 RON (being about the same thing). Europe shows RON on their pumps.
It is more likely that international car companies truly just want to have ONE TIMING AND TUNING SETTING worldwide. They won't give us 70mpg cars, or they would have done it long ago. #1 that is hard. #2 where's the profit. Comfy cars is what people buy. Comfy means, bigger cabins and bigger alternators.
What we should expect is the mileage you see in Europe where the lowest compression gas is typically 93 or 95RON. Adjust for imperial gallons being 1/4 bigger, then a Fiesta-S 5speed getting 40mpg in the US should equal 50mpg in the UK. However they do even better than that because the engines are tuned for higher octane. They get about 60 miles per imperial gallon. That would be 45 mpg US.
Ethanol is an octane booster. Add 10% Ethyl and you bring up the octane by 4 points. So your 87 E10 is made from 83 octane piss-poor petroleum. If the US is going to 91/93 research (95 RON) then expect 15% Ethanol in your future. Easiest way to boost poor petrol.
Older premium cars run well on midgrade especially when you are just driving around in the city. The octane is high enough to prevent knocks.
In Colorado we have 85 as the lowest grade you can get at the pump so 87 is our mid-grade.
There are two grades they are mixed for 89. Higher octane is sensed in some new engines adjusting timing and producing more power. Only 20-30% of the energy in gas is used to power the car.
You also have to consider that a lot of old cars from the 70s and 80s require 89 octane. My parents had a ‘86 Buick Grand National that required 89 octane. So even though virtually no new cars use it, there’s a lot of legacy clientele built in.
Most cars that require premium require 91 octane. For my cars that require 91, I usually fill my tank at half tank and alternate between the 89 and 93 for an average of 91. Simple way to save some money while still using the gas my car was designed for.
I think most new cars within a few years should be able to take advantage of higher octane. The ecu should take the base timing map for that load/rpm and try to optimize timing by looking at the knock sensor.
My owners manual says “use 87 or higher”. I run 89 because it has a somewhat high compression at 10:6:1 and it’s port injection.
If your not racing use nothing but E85. E85 is smoother than 89 but you will lose torque and full throttle but it all makes up in the mid range and oil quality.
E85 13B Not everyone has a flex-fuel vehicle though(and not everyone has the kit installed that corrects that design flaw). Best to assertain if their vehicle can run on that fuel before recommending it.
I should probably add that E85 is actually FAR superior for performance applications compared to gasoline thanks to burning cooler and having a higher octane rating
Flex fuel is negligible. I had a factory flex fuel tune and it performed less than a non flex factory tune. It is all in the injectors and ignition map. Besides, non flex can take advantage of lean injection for comparable figures to gasoline. In some circumstances same mileage can be achieved.
Sounds like your vehicle's E85 mode was more of a bodge than anything. Properly tuned, E85 cars have more performance than their gasoline counterparts. It's all over the Passat forums - and in fact is one of the most common mods for this car. I'm just not bothering with the performance tuning though I figure my car's ECU will be smart enough to at least pick up on the higher octane and at least advance the timing if not pump up the boost pressure.
Some older engines that have accumulated carbon over their lifetime may start knocking. You can either spend lots of money to clean it or you can save money and just use higher octane to prevent detonation. So while the engines will still run on lower octane, some circumstances call for a bump in octane rating to make a car perform better than manufacture specs
Where’s the link for the octane ratings for each car. I can’t find it on the website
👨🏻🏭 as a mechanic I think 89 fuel is the Best all around fuel ✔️
Why?
@@panglingaow not to hot..
@@michaelwightman4358 explain and educate
@@panglingaow I've been building engines for over 16 years with great results. I've noticed running 89 is the magic number... Not to rich and/or hot.. There's a lot of Science and first-hand knowledge involved,
I hope my car continues to run through all of this. It's one of the few cars I've ever seen that says it can perform just fine on regular fuel but prefers premium. Which means it's should be fine with anything in between as well. 2010 Lincoln MKS Ecoboost
Here in New Zealand 91 octane is the regular, and rises to 98 octane
That short dodge challanger clip in the biggining of the video was recorded close to my home town l, the dalles, Oregon. I recognised the road it was on lol
Love Cooley’s videos
One high grade sounds great. Right now those of us in the 2 wheel world, with much smaller fuel tanks, are paying for premium fuel, but chances are that single handle nozzle is loaded with regular from the previous customer. Some of those hoses are pretty long.
here in Europe, our regular gas is actually 95 RON (the one car manufacturers want in the US). it's kinda weird because a lot of basic, non-performace cars run on what would be premium in the US.
95 RON = 91 AKI (US)
of course almost all cars are at least turbocharged, but some small cars are still naturally aspirated and even though they say they could run on 91 RON (87 in the US), 95 RON (91 in the US) is still recommended.
91 RON / 87 US is only available in a few stations in Germany and Austria, but even over there everyone runs on 95. it kinda feels like a waste.
also, when you get a performance car, people tend to buy premium (which is 98 where I live, 97 or 98 in the UK, but can go up to 100 in Shell Race gas stations). 98 RON would equal to 94 in the US.
So your performance cars run on what our Golf's and Civic's run on?
it's not because of the downsized cars because we literally never had anything less than 95(91)!
only difference is, since 2017 95 contains 10% ethanol and 98 doesn't. so lawnmowers or older cars might want to use 98 because the ethanol might be bad for tubes / rubbers and whatever the gas flows through
Also, speaking about that 5.7 V8, in the US it runs on 91 (87) in most vehicles, and over here it's recommended (not required) to use 95 (91). the 5.7 is naturally aspirated tho. so weird.
I had a 2015 Chrysler 300 with the HEMI and I only ever ran regular 87 in it. I believe the manual said “premium recommended but not required,” and I never had any issues with the performance on 87.
Put E85 is better than 87. Premium only for race application.
"Adding higher octane grades, unless your car says so, adds no performance improvements"
You say so, but my Dodge Caliber feel so much better with mid-grade than 87. I only go back to 87 to pass the emission test as mid grade causes my check engine light to turn on.
I get my Caliber is designed for 87, but it feels terrible to drive. Using a higher grade solved my problem.
It's a myth that's starting to come true. Turbo engines and a good chunk of modern engines do actually get a little extra hp, but it has to do with the electronics being able to adjust to the higher octane and running a little more efficiently. 6.2 in the Ford trucks are a decent example.
Most modern performance engines will run fine on regular gas, even if they say use premium. They’ll just alter their timing to prevent knock, at the expense of some horsepower.
When you see 10% ethanol at the pump just think of 10% less fuel mileage I worked at a Refinery I did the test I know don't let nobody fool you
Ethanol is a scam to raise the price paid for corn to farmers.
10% entanol and 10% worse mileage, is actually negative since it takes energy to raise and process the corn.
In my experience I've never seen such a large change in fuel economy between regular and non-ethanol, ran through a couple tanks of non-ethanol compared to regular 87, and the differences are small, I only observed 0.3-0.8 MPG difference
Justin Noker
what vehicle did you use for the test ? sometimes they program the cars computer system to adjust for no benefit. The newer models were designed for government emissions
dcomputers it was a 2014 CRV and a 2007 Chevy Malibu, both vehicles had the similar results as noted in my comment above.
Justin Noker
hmm that's interesting. pure gas has a higher btu it should of had a noticeable jump . there's other facts involved affecting mpg so it depends
I usually put midgrade in my lawn care equipment. I found it to work a bit better on start ups
If your car is pinging at 87, bump up to 89. Geez it’s not that difficult to understand. People want different grades to deal with vehicles in various rates of disrepair
Have always thought that if you want 89 octane just fill up half of regular and supreme yourself as the gas station will probably rip people off by giving it a 20/80 mix for greater profit.
Unfortunately in my country more than 80% of the cars in the road require 89 octane unless it's US imported
If your regular unleaded car is pinning, then you go for the midrange.
niacal4nia Had to do that on a few older vehicles in summer months.
E85 will solve all your problems, try and see for yourself.
E85 13B E85 brings its own set of headaches. Great budget race fuel though.
Elaborate what problems ethanol may have? I use E85 on stock injectors where it is slower than gasoline but my mileage is same and cost less at the pump.
E85 13B E85 isn’t common in a lot of areas. Unless you’re running a flex fuel vehicle or have a tune you will ruin you car. It’s impossible to get the same MPGs as e85 has less energy and needs a richer AF. Cheaper per gallon yes but you use more of it. You will make more power on a tuned or flex fuel vehicle. Based on what you’ve said I’m guessing you’re putting E85 in a car not made for it or tuned?
Think of a frozen yogurt machine: the left handle is for vanilla (regular). The right handle is chocolate (premium). Mid grade fuel is analogous to the handle in the middle for swirl. Regular and mid-grade are “swirled” at the pump, resulting in 89 octane. While there isn’t much demand specifically for mid grade, it doesn’t really cost extra to have it as an offering.
I would pay five times the tution fee to have Cooley as a lecturer.
If the percentages of purchased fuel are 83, 10 and 7 then that tells me that a lot of people who drive vehicles that require 91 are putting in 87 or even 89. Those cheap bastards. Tsk tsk
Tommy Cruz ..Because it's all bullshit. 87 gas will have the vast majority of cars running fine.
ben lee ... unless your car's engine is designed to operate with 91+ octane fuel. Since those motors involve higher compression ratios, I would think using 87 octane would risk knock in the combustion process which can damage the motor over time.
Losing mileage on 89, only second try with this car. Stick with the minimum.
There are a few cars that are like that I believe Honda sold. V6 was that way, but both MyMazda and Toyota both run better on a higher octane even though it calls for 87 my theory is when it’s brand new it might not make much of a difference but you got 80,000 miles on there with some carbon deposits that effectively raise compression I do feel like putting higher octane in those enginesdoes make a difference No a valid argument might be. Is it enough to make the price worth? It doesn’t matter to you you can make those argument.
Unless you get a tune for your car to push more timing from the cam shaft, more octane is useless. Although things like ethanol can clean up your valves
"Higher octane doesn't provide any benefit." That's no longer true, most cars are designed to run on 87 nowadays but will run better on 91 or 93. Modern cars have knock sensors and essentially up or lower the timing to right below where it no longer detects detonation. In an f150 ecoboost , it calls for 87 , but when run on 93 will make more power. Same deal with the 5.0 in the mustang. The silverado with the 6.2 recommends 93 but explicitly says 87 can be used. Keeping in mind with 87 it likely dials down the timing and sacrifices a few hp. The ecoboost 2.3 in the mustang can be run on 87, but only makes full power on 93. etc
Mid grade is prem and standard mixed most time. Also, fords ecoboost engines HP and torque is usually based on 93 octane if I’m not mistaken. The engine supposedly adapts to the octane you run
We want Cooley back!
my friend how safe is the jack that comes with most cars i would like to see the safe usage of the jack when the temp is 40 degrees and you are on a hill
Most of the Premium cars recommend 91 but they also mention 89 minimum. You can see that near Gas Tank door.
It has to do with altitude and compression ratio. If you live at a high altitude (above 4000') you can probably use lower octane fuel without detonation on a non turbo engine. So why not just use the highest octane available? Because it's unecessarily expensive.
So should I use the Texaco Fire Chief, or the Texaco Sky Chief in my Chevy with the Blue Flame Six?
You rock Cooley!
What are "knock sensors", Alex?
Sensors in the engine that are able to detect if the fuel is prematurely detonating before spark is applied to ignite it. If it detects knock the ECU will reduce the effective compression ratio of the engine by decreasing boost pressure and/or delaying the closure of the inlet valves after the 1st(intake) stroke into the 2nd(compression) stroke.
Isn't mid-grade simply half reg and half premium?
Mike Morales 65% regular and 35% premium
Prices in PA are crazy for high octane, $3.70 a gallon.
I’m curious how you did your research, the owners manual of my dad‘s Cadillac ATS specifically says that the 2L turbo models need 89 or higher, his 3.6 V6 says it can run on 87, but the dealer (who has no stake in the gas used) and most forums recommend using mid grade. My brother has an eco boost mustang, it’s manual says it can use any grade, however, higher grades will result in better performance, 91/93 is expensive, so he typically uses 89 as a compromise.
All depends on drive style but E85 is best overall.
I went from a civic to a Lexus and the premium fuel shock lasted about a month before I got used to it. It’s really only a couple bucks more a week than regular for a much better driving experience.
Here's why I use mid-grade fuel, even though my cars don't require it. Back in the days when the gas stations would switch between 10% ethanol and no ethanol based on the seasons, I would notice a dramatic decrease in fuel economy with the ethanol gas. I mentioned this to the gas station attendant and he recommended trying the mid-grade fuel. I did and low and behold, my fuel economy went up 10%! I did this on two cars and got the same result. So If I pay 10 cents more a gallon, I get 10% better mileage. That's just good economics. Of course, I tried going to the premium grade to see if there was any further improvement and there wasn't so I now just by mid-grade fuel all the time.
I also buy mid-grade fuel for my small engines because I strip out the ethanol which lowers the octane so I need to start with a higher octane.
it's interesting because in Europe the lowest you can get at the pump is 95 RON. That's the baseline, then there is the midgrade 98 (rare) and the 100RON. People buy the most expensive because of the BELIEF it cleans and some premium cars require it or because it has low ethanol content (a substitue alcohol can be used so the shelf-life is much longer too). Since E10 is a must, many people buy premium for their older cars. In Ukraine you can get a 92 RON octane gas that fits old soviet block cars (old. Skodas, Ladas...).
My 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit with the 5.7L Hemi recommends 89 octane for "optimum performance" but can run just fine on 87 and that is all I've ever put into it. I've never had any issues with 87 octane and I also only use top tier gas.
If my 2013 Ram 1500 with the 5.7L calls for mid grade 89, would it be best to substitute 87 or premium if the station doesn't offer 89?
Probably premium since running a higher octane than your vehicle requires won't damage anything. If it's a higher ethanol blend it might turn on your MIL(It will give a "System Too Lean" message if this happens) though so be advised about that.
John Rickard
I was reading my owner's manual after I commented and it stated 87 is acceptable, but 89 is recommended.
Fuel injected cars are designed to adjust for the fuel you use...
As cars age some need higher octane to offset carbon buildup in the combustion chamber
Owners manuals only apply till the warranty runs out then your on your own in more ways than one.
Hi.
Say I recently traveled through NM& TX and I notice there was a few gas stations that sold 85-86 octane fuel. I bought this gas only because at the time this was the only station in the area( TX is a large state) my car ran ok with this fuel.. I drive a 09 Camry,with a 2.4L engine. What's the story on this lower octane fuel?
Does higher octance help prevent knock?
Short answer: Yes it does
Ask below if you want the long answer
High octane promotes preignition of thin fuels but prevent detonation.
Lmao...I'm one of the 7%.
I drive a Versa thru the streets of Chicago daily and fill up with it, every couple of weeks. It just adds to the driving fun factor and mpg has wonderful.
Can you use mid89 instead of 92prm ?
In 2009, My new wife and I went on a road trip honeymoon from PDX > Couer d'Alene >Glacier> Billings> Twin Falls>PDX.
We were driving in a 1997 Lincoln Mk VIII. It was in Whitefish that I found Non-ethanol Premium(93 octane) fuel. That was the best fuel I ever had as I was doing 75 mph on the highway, with the ac on and getting 34 MPG. Between Billings and Twin falls that fell to 31. From Twin Falls to Pendleton that again fell to 28 MPG. From Pendleton to PDX, going 55 mph on i84 with no ac. I was getting 26 mpg.
I wouldn't doubt with that same fuel and perhaps traveling through some long flat stretch like Nebraska; I probably could have topped out at 36 MPG. Ethanol suck.
Always the best man
I'm a simple man, I see Cooley, I click.
My 91 Mitsubishi GTO takes 93 octane. 3.0 liter twin turbo is still incredibly strong for its age.
My Infiniti Q50 calls for premium 89. It states it right inside the gas cover. But I always wondered what will happen when if I used regular unleaded..
The owner's manual of my 2018 Ford F-150 with the standard 3.3L NA engine states that modest horsepower gains can be acheived with increased octane. My guess is that the knock sensor will permit advanced timing when it senses higher octane fuel. This lowly 290 hp base engine has a 7000 rpm redline. Reving it out to even 5500 rpm, this truck which weighs 4100 lb gets right with it. Surprised me the first time I punched it. Only 1600 miles on the truck, so I haven't run it all the way to redline. Sport mode on the 6 speed auto is very impressive.
It's a trick to help companies meet CAFE standards for fleet fuel economy. An engine tuned to 89 can get marginally better economy, although manufacturers make the computer recognize and run with 87 anyway. But by claiming it requires 89, they can report the higher mpg to the govt to get lower corporate taxes.
What do they have in other countries like over in Europe?