Very cool to see the repair done on my rifle. You’re an expert sir. I would’ve never guessed that was the feeding issue. I just replaced the missing screws and refreshed the springs. I knew the mag tube had issues, but that’s as far as my knowledge went. These 86’s are a little more complex than the toggle link guns. That’s why you send stuff to the experts. And I guess I made a mistake looking at the serial number list I found online, I thought it was made in 1889. But I remember you saying you’re in the winchester collectors association so you’ve got access to better information saying it was 1893. I’ll have to look into joining up. Funny I have a rod bayonet trapdoor rifle made the same year. I’ll be enjoying this rifle and popping steel out to 300 yards at my local club in the pine barrens with some black powder. I’ll be sure to share your business with the cowboy action folks and black powder target shooters around my area. Now I can joke around and say I sent my rifle to a gunsmith and he repaired it by throwing it in a pile of rocks. Thanks again sir and I’m sure I’ll be hearing from you soon to pay you and get her back home. Edit: we were both wrong it was manufactured in 1888 upon further research from Mark.
Hey Josh, Glad you caught this episode. I enjoyed working on and shooting this rifle. It's a dandy shooting rifle and great fun. I'll get everything worked up and sent to you today and get her packaged up for the long trip home.
You have a beautiful old rifle, I'm certainly jealous! Also, good choice on boring it for a 45/70. Love the sound of that round, enjoy it, and if you get tired of it let me know 😁
@@sfbfriend ha, if you were nearby I’d let you fire off a round but it’ll definitely be in my collection for quite awhile. Nice to have an original I can enjoy without worrying about getting any dings on it. I’ll just keep it well oiled.
Mark, not only was this video informative, it was also entertaining for me. I love these "Old Tyme" firearms. Thanks for sharing this video with us. Stan
Love seeing these ol girls brought back to running condition. Just what everyone needs! Reliable, accurate and not be afraid to take it out and run it as it should.
I really enjoy these. I live in San Diego and dream of a Ranch. To see you on yours with a pickup truck and an old Winchester is as good as it gets for me.
Had to do a search for your channel, wasn't getting notices despite being a subscriber. Love those 86s no matter the caliber. You did a fantastic job on my 92 blending new parts and cleaning up after a string of meathead hammer mechanics. Winchester whisperer you are.
Thanks. It seems RUclips is hiding my channel from a lot of subscribers. I don't think they like guns. 😉 Your 92 was a challenge, but it was really fun to get it shooting again.
what an absolutely cool old rifle. I like these types better than the pristine collector grade ones. They were made to be shot and that is how they should be loved today!
I had good success with using the modern reproduction magazine tubes when the originals were beyond repair. Another trick is to take two shorter good sections of original magazine tube and combine them together to make a full length tube. By boring out one piece of the tube in a collect in the lathe to half the thickness about a half of an inch, then turn the second piece of magazine tube down to about a thousand of an inch slip fit with the other section, they can be joined together and make the Winchester operational again. The joined section should be made so it is hidden under the forearm and can be soldered or epoxied for strength. Thanks again Mark for another great video on repairing an old Winchester.
Awesome Job Mark The Coolest Thing About Gun Smithing Is The Test Firing After The Repairs 💨🔫😀 It’s Like My Job as a Mechanic The Test Drive After I Fix The Vehicle Is Always A Feel Good Moment 😊😀😊😇
Hey Cinnabar, thanks for another Terrific video. I emailed you a few months ago about possibly re-lining my 45-70 Winchester 1886; Thanks for answering me quickly, you are a True Gentleman! I ended up using Robert Hoyt in Pennsylvania and he did a Great Job! My rifle is only a "Shooter Quality," but it now shoots like New, Mr. Hoyt did a Fantastic job. Thanks Again!! P.S. Your Videos are Truly Enjoyable. 👍🏻
I’ll definitely be shooting and enjoying it sir. The collectability is gone with the rebore but now that it’s a pristine bore in an even better caliber it’s arguably more useful. I’ll be ringing steel out to 300 yards with it at my local club.
As much as I would like to see how you age metal I do appreciate and agree with your stance on not showing. Beautiful rifle, I just love the .45/70, what a work horse. Thanks
Very nice repair work done on the Model '86. I would have loved to have seen it in the rust blue finish. With really nice multi passed rust blue finishing one can see down deep into the metal. This looks good though. You do very good gunsmithing there at Cinnabar, 😊
@@thecinnabar8442 I’ll let you know when I ship it out and send you the tracking information. Just ordered a good hard case to ship it as I don’t trust the cheap plastic one I have.
You are good. Very creative approach to matching new to old. What a shooter. Wish I could shoot offhand like that. Been playing with black powder for my 1885 High Walk. Managed to load up some 45-70 with Goex 2F and the first shot hit steel at 300 yds. As long as I swabbed the barrel after three shots accuracy did not suffer. Going to try some Pyrodex next. Thanks for another great video.
I'll share with you my secret for successful offhand shooting. Get close enough to the targets that you can hit them. That's the only thing that works for me. 😃
Love the big bore’s. I’ve noticed in my area a lot of small caliber Winchester’s showing up. I figure it’s the WWII generation’s collection’s coming on the market. Kinda sad.
You're right. Lots of "Old Timer's" collections coming to market recently. The primary reason I started this channel was to try to get some interest in these guns from the next generation of shooters. Thanks for watching!
@@thecinnabar8442 kids today don’t know the fun we had before Glock’s and AR15’s. I think the most modern gun I had was a S&W revolver. Glad you’re doing the channel.👍
Just poking a little fun. No offense intended. I was surprised when this one came in from New Jersey, but I've since been told that there are a fair amount of them in the less urban parts of the state.
No offensive taken. I was simply thinking of my friend who unfortunately passed away. Almost everything he had, which was a lot, was an original passed down through his family since at least before the Civil War. He ended up with all of it.
Evaporust is great. Found it a bunch a years back. Always keep a gallon handy. A length of 1-½” abs / pvc with a cap welded on makes a real efficient barrel soaker. Uses less liquid and avoids ending up In the missus’ dog house for using her planters
I work on a lot of Marlin lever guns. Old and newer. One thing I often do is polish the inside of the tube and wax it. Makes a big difference sometimes.
Yeah, doggone it. The ‘patina and aging’ part is what I’d liked to have seen SO I could match my 1873 (1901) ‘NON-collector’ shooter’s NEW mag-tube to match the barrel. I DO understand why you don’t show it Mark..
well done. About as good as I've seen matching an old finish. It is almost impossible to match the randomness of the original dings. They were put on there over years of use and have different depths, ages, sometimes dings inside of dings. Hard to recreate but this job looks good.
Very captivating video, since I have a similar magazine issue with my first year production Winchester Model 1892. I'm torn as to whether I should replace the mag tube, or just leave it as is, with its feeding issues (it's 38WCF). I *very* rarely shoot this rifle, as ammunition prices are prohibitive, but it irks me a little that the rifle isn't in *perfect* mechanical condition. Do you have any suggestions/opinions? Thanks for the excellent video!
Karl, if it were my 1892, I'd keep an eye out for a used mag tube in similar condition. If you're not in a hurry, one will come along that will look right for the gun. Lots of people are parting out old guns and selling the parts on EBAY. Old Arms of Idaho is another good source for used parts.
@@thecinnabar8442 Excellent suggestion. No, I'm not exactly in a hurry... I've had this rifle for just about fifty years, (!) and taken it out about once a decade for a few nostalgic shots. It's "minute of paint can lid" accurate at 100 yards! I'll start with putting a search on Ebay. Thanks for the reply!
So I put a couple drops of 3 in 1 on the release lever of grandpa's 1800's Remington Damascus side by side to see if I can get it to break free. Hope that wasn't a bad decision. I would really like to get the foregrip off so I can get it properly taken apart and maybe some more information. Wish me luck!
@@chrislang5659 Are you asking about the date of manufacture of the shotgun? If so, Remington serial numbers and dates of manufacture are not as straight forward as other brands. I've had to really dig for information on the internet in the past. You might try a Remington collectors forum.
@@thecinnabar8442 thank you sir for your time this evening. Yes trying to find the date of manufacturing was the goal and I will take your advice to do so. Once again, thank you very much for your time!
I had the same problem as you with cartridge hanging up in the carrier I used your remedy by filling the carrier hook and it worked great thanks for that. But now the cartridge is getting stuck halfway in the carrier on the way out of the magazine tube. What can this be and how do I fix it? Help and thanks
Diagnosing a feeding problem can be a real challenge. Trying to diagnose it without having the rifle in hand is purely guess work. I would look to make sure the carrier is all the way down when the cartridge is being fed and make sure there's nothing interfering with the bullet as it leaves the magazine. If it's more of a problem on the last rounds to be fed, it could be a weak mag spring. Good luck!
@@thecinnabar8442 yup I just installed a new mag spring so definitely not that but I will check the orientation of the carrier. What would be the mechanism to put the carrier all the way down? Would it be the carrier spring
I got an 1866 1966 centennial yellow boy 30-30 Barely been shot. I'm having a hard time pulling that forehand. I want to look underneath the barrel. Any suggestions?
Hit the wrong button! Anyway I had no idea that evapo-rust would remove bluing like that. I surely would admire to come down and do some shooting with you.
I would have just rusted the tube on the outside and sanded it with really fine paper. The old tube has brown rust spots. I'm sure that crooks will be crooks no matter what you do.
I'm not getting what's wrong with refinishing something with no finish left and then making it look original/ simulate/ add years of wear, isn't that what you call top notch professional refinishing/restoration
In my opinion, nothing is wrong with it. That's a big part of what we do here. In this case, the customer didn't want to spend the money to get the firearm refinished, only to get it repaired mechanically to be able to hunt with it.
@The Cinnabar gotcha these leave it as is, people drive me nuts, and the price of used guns through the roof, the whole reason we say leave it alone, is when you have a real clean one with no finish ,light rust, but overall good to great condition is leave it alone, save that one for a professional ,but still restore it, if you can afford it or are capable of doing it yourself. Only extremely rare peices should be conserved only, the rest have at it. PATINA MY A- - that's a term dealers started using in the 80s to charge the unknowing more for worn out guns than good ones
She turned into a real sweetheart, nice work!
Very cool to see the repair done on my rifle. You’re an expert sir. I would’ve never guessed that was the feeding issue. I just replaced the missing screws and refreshed the springs. I knew the mag tube had issues, but that’s as far as my knowledge went. These 86’s are a little more complex than the toggle link guns. That’s why you send stuff to the experts. And I guess I made a mistake looking at the serial number list I found online, I thought it was made in 1889. But I remember you saying you’re in the winchester collectors association so you’ve got access to better information saying it was 1893. I’ll have to look into joining up. Funny I have a rod bayonet trapdoor rifle made the same year. I’ll be enjoying this rifle and popping steel out to 300 yards at my local club in the pine barrens with some black powder. I’ll be sure to share your business with the cowboy action folks and black powder target shooters around my area. Now I can joke around and say I sent my rifle to a gunsmith and he repaired it by throwing it in a pile of rocks. Thanks again sir and I’m sure I’ll be hearing from you soon to pay you and get her back home.
Edit: we were both wrong it was manufactured in 1888 upon further research from Mark.
Hey Josh, Glad you caught this episode. I enjoyed working on and shooting this rifle. It's a dandy shooting rifle and great fun. I'll get everything worked up and sent to you today and get her packaged up for the long trip home.
You have a beautiful old rifle, I'm certainly jealous! Also, good choice on boring it for a 45/70. Love the sound of that round, enjoy it, and if you get tired of it let me know 😁
@@sfbfriend ha, if you were nearby I’d let you fire off a round but it’ll definitely be in my collection for quite awhile. Nice to have an original I can enjoy without worrying about getting any dings on it. I’ll just keep it well oiled.
@@soylentgreen7074 I would love that, however we are on opposite coasts! In kind I would let you shoot a clip of my M1Garand
@@sfbfriend i have a few m1’s also. Used to shoot high power with them and my m1a. They’re one of my favorite rifles ever.
Mark, not only was this video informative, it was also entertaining for me. I love these "Old Tyme" firearms.
Thanks for sharing this video with us.
Stan
Love seeing these ol girls brought back to running condition.
Just what everyone needs! Reliable, accurate and not be afraid to take it out and run it as it should.
I really enjoy these. I live in San Diego and dream of a Ranch. To see you on yours with a pickup truck and an old Winchester is as good as it gets for me.
Glad you like the channel, Ben.
Very good repair.
Great video, really enjoyed watching you work your magic on this old gun. Thanks for sharing!
Had to do a search for your channel, wasn't getting notices despite being a subscriber. Love those 86s no matter the caliber. You did a fantastic job on my 92 blending new parts and cleaning up after a string of meathead hammer mechanics. Winchester whisperer you are.
Thanks. It seems RUclips is hiding my channel from a lot of subscribers. I don't think they like guns. 😉 Your 92 was a challenge, but it was really fun to get it shooting again.
what an absolutely cool old rifle. I like these types better than the pristine collector grade ones. They were made to be shot and that is how they should be loved today!
I enjoyed this video as I do all your videos. I hope you have many more in the making.
Love the 86. Thanks for sharing!
Well done Mark. Good video.
Glad you enjoyed it, Mark!
I had good success with using the modern reproduction magazine tubes when the originals were beyond repair. Another trick is to take two shorter good sections of original magazine tube and combine them together to make a full length tube. By boring out one piece of the tube in a collect in the lathe to half the thickness about a half of an inch, then turn the second piece of magazine tube down to about a thousand of an inch slip fit with the other section, they can be joined together and make the Winchester operational again. The joined section should be made so it is hidden under the forearm and can be soldered or epoxied for strength. Thanks again Mark for another great video on repairing an old Winchester.
Thanks for the tip, Karl. I've got a couple of pictures to send you and then call for your thoughts on a couple of projects I'm working on.
Very interesting, thank you. Happy trails!
Glad you enjoyed it, Peter!
Hey! You did a real good job matching the mag tube to the rest of the gun! I am surprised how well it turned out because that is really hard to do.
Awesome Job Mark The Coolest Thing About Gun Smithing Is The Test Firing After The Repairs 💨🔫😀 It’s Like My Job as a Mechanic The Test Drive After I Fix The Vehicle Is Always A Feel Good Moment 😊😀😊😇
really enjoying your channel.. great work, fine ole rifle ..
Hey Cinnabar, thanks for another Terrific video. I emailed you a few months ago about possibly re-lining my 45-70 Winchester 1886; Thanks for answering me quickly, you are a True Gentleman! I ended up using Robert Hoyt in Pennsylvania and he did a Great Job! My rifle is only a "Shooter Quality," but it now shoots like New, Mr. Hoyt did a Fantastic job. Thanks Again!!
P.S. Your Videos are Truly Enjoyable. 👍🏻
Great to hear your 86 is shooting well!
Thanks for your much appreciated content!
Great job, love seeing these old rifles getting 2nd chance to do what they made to do.
The owner sounds like myself.
Shoot and enjoy.
I’ll definitely be shooting and enjoying it sir. The collectability is gone with the rebore but now that it’s a pristine bore in an even better caliber it’s arguably more useful. I’ll be ringing steel out to 300 yards with it at my local club.
Another job well done! Shoots great too!
As much as I would like to see how you age metal I do appreciate and agree with your stance on not showing. Beautiful rifle, I just love the .45/70, what a work horse. Thanks
Thanks for understanding. There are just too many faked guns out there and too many people getting swindled out of their hard-earned money.
Great job, Great rifle. All the best.
Thanks, Gary!
Very nice repair work done on the Model '86. I would have loved to have seen it in the rust blue finish. With really nice multi passed rust blue finishing one can see down deep into the metal. This looks good though. You do very good gunsmithing there at Cinnabar, 😊
Thanks, I hope to do a rust blue episode very soon.
I’ll be packing up my 1873 very soon to ship out to you. You can use it for a video as well. 👍
Thanks Benjy. We'll keep an eye out for your '73.
@@thecinnabar8442 I’ll let you know when I ship it out and send you the tracking information. Just ordered a good hard case to ship it as I don’t trust the cheap plastic one I have.
Great find
Thank you. 👍👍
another good interesting video!!
You are good. Very creative approach to matching new to old. What a shooter. Wish I could shoot offhand like that. Been playing with black powder for my 1885 High Walk. Managed to load up some 45-70 with Goex 2F and the first shot hit steel at 300 yds. As long as I swabbed the barrel after three shots accuracy did not suffer. Going to try some Pyrodex next. Thanks for another great video.
I'll share with you my secret for successful offhand shooting. Get close enough to the targets that you can hit them. That's the only thing that works for me. 😃
@@thecinnabar8442 😆
Love the big bore’s. I’ve noticed in my area a lot of small caliber Winchester’s showing up. I figure it’s the WWII generation’s collection’s coming on the market. Kinda sad.
You're right. Lots of "Old Timer's" collections coming to market recently. The primary reason I started this channel was to try to get some interest in these guns from the next generation of shooters. Thanks for watching!
@@thecinnabar8442 kids today don’t know the fun we had before Glock’s and AR15’s. I think the most modern gun I had was a S&W revolver. Glad you’re doing the channel.👍
Question if I may. I have a 86 ultralight in 45-70 made in 1897. What would the popular load then been for this gun.
Standard load in 1897 was a 500 grain bullet and 70 grains of black powder. The Army carbine load was a 405 grain bullet and 55 grains of black.
Hey, I live in NJ and you might be surprised how many original Cowboy guns are floating around.
Just poking a little fun. No offense intended. I was surprised when this one came in from New Jersey, but I've since been told that there are a fair amount of them in the less urban parts of the state.
Hi William, What part of jersey? It’s my rifle and I shoot my cowboy guns in Jackson at my local club.
No offensive taken. I was simply thinking of my friend who unfortunately passed away. Almost everything he had, which was a lot, was an original passed down through his family since at least before the Civil War. He ended up with all of it.
Evaporust is great. Found it a bunch a years back. Always keep a gallon handy. A length of 1-½” abs / pvc with a cap welded on makes a real efficient barrel soaker. Uses less liquid and avoids ending up In the missus’ dog house for using her planters
Pretty cool.
I work on a lot of Marlin lever guns. Old and newer. One thing I often do is polish the inside of the tube and wax it. Makes a big difference sometimes.
Great tip! I didn't show it, but I polished and oiled this one after I added the patina.
Yeah, doggone it. The ‘patina and aging’ part is what I’d liked to have seen SO I could match my 1873 (1901) ‘NON-collector’ shooter’s NEW mag-tube to match the barrel. I DO understand why you don’t show it Mark..
Thanks for your videos. Where did you get the reproduction magazine tube?
It came in an auction lot with a bunch of other Winchester parts. Unfortunately, I don't know who made it.
Mark, could you put the mandrel in the tube and kinda hit it lightly with a edge of something that would create those dings ?
Very nice, hope you found a good apprentice.
Thanks. I think I have found a good one.
Awesome!👍🏽😀❤️🇺🇸
Mine is chambered in 40-65
well done. About as good as I've seen matching an old finish. It is almost impossible to match the randomness of the original dings. They were put on there over years of use and have different depths, ages, sometimes dings inside of dings. Hard to recreate but this job looks good.
Another great video. What's the manufacture date on the '86
1893
Very captivating video, since I have a similar magazine issue with my first year production Winchester Model 1892. I'm torn as to whether I should replace the mag tube, or just leave it as is, with its feeding issues (it's 38WCF). I *very* rarely shoot this rifle, as ammunition prices are prohibitive, but it irks me a little that the rifle isn't in *perfect* mechanical condition.
Do you have any suggestions/opinions? Thanks for the excellent video!
Karl, if it were my 1892, I'd keep an eye out for a used mag tube in similar condition. If you're not in a hurry, one will come along that will look right for the gun. Lots of people are parting out old guns and selling the parts on EBAY. Old Arms of Idaho is another good source for used parts.
@@thecinnabar8442 Excellent suggestion. No, I'm not exactly in a hurry... I've had this rifle for just about fifty years, (!) and taken it out about once a decade for a few nostalgic shots. It's "minute of paint can lid" accurate at 100 yards! I'll start with putting a search on Ebay. Thanks for the reply!
@@kbjerke If you can hit a gallon paint can lid at 100 yards it won't do much better. Heck, the front sight is bigger than the lid at 100 yards.
So I put a couple drops of 3 in 1 on the release lever of grandpa's 1800's Remington Damascus side by side to see if I can get it to break free. Hope that wasn't a bad decision. I would really like to get the foregrip off so I can get it properly taken apart and maybe some more information. Wish me luck!
Best of luck with your project! Kano Kroil is my "go to" penetrating oil for loosening up stuck gun parts.
@@thecinnabar8442 it came right off this time. Still cannot find a date. Any suggestions?
@@chrislang5659 Are you asking about the date of manufacture of the shotgun? If so, Remington serial numbers and dates of manufacture are not as straight forward as other brands. I've had to really dig for information on the internet in the past. You might try a Remington collectors forum.
@@thecinnabar8442 thank you sir for your time this evening. Yes trying to find the date of manufacturing was the goal and I will take your advice to do so. Once again, thank you very much for your time!
I had the same problem as you with cartridge hanging up in the carrier I used your remedy by filling the carrier hook and it worked great thanks for that. But now the cartridge is getting stuck halfway in the carrier on the way out of the magazine tube. What can this be and how do I fix it?
Help and thanks
Diagnosing a feeding problem can be a real challenge. Trying to diagnose it without having the rifle in hand is purely guess work. I would look to make sure the carrier is all the way down when the cartridge is being fed and make sure there's nothing interfering with the bullet as it leaves the magazine. If it's more of a problem on the last rounds to be fed, it could be a weak mag spring. Good luck!
@@thecinnabar8442 yup I just installed a new mag spring so definitely not that but I will check the orientation of the carrier. What would be the mechanism to put the carrier all the way down? Would it be the carrier spring
Sounds like the same problems as mine
I got an 1866 1966 centennial yellow boy 30-30 Barely been shot. I'm having a hard time pulling that forehand. I want to look underneath the barrel. Any suggestions?
I had no idea that evapo-rust
Hit the wrong button! Anyway I had no idea that evapo-rust would remove bluing like that.
I surely would admire to come down and do some shooting with you.
I would have just rusted the tube on the outside and sanded it with really fine paper. The old tube has brown rust spots. I'm sure that crooks will be crooks no matter what you do.
𝓅𝓇𝑜𝓂𝑜𝓈𝓂
I'm not getting what's wrong with refinishing something with no finish left and then making it look original/ simulate/ add years of wear, isn't that what you call top notch professional refinishing/restoration
In my opinion, nothing is wrong with it. That's a big part of what we do here. In this case, the customer didn't want to spend the money to get the firearm refinished, only to get it repaired mechanically to be able to hunt with it.
@The Cinnabar gotcha these leave it as is, people drive me nuts, and the price of used guns through the roof, the whole reason we say leave it alone, is when you have a real clean one with no finish ,light rust, but overall good to great condition is leave it alone, save that one for a professional ,but still restore it, if you can afford it or are capable of doing it yourself. Only extremely rare peices should be conserved only, the rest have at it. PATINA MY A- - that's a term dealers started using in the 80s to charge the unknowing more for worn out guns than good ones