Many of the doctors writing baby care manuals decades ago which advised mothers to touch their babies as little as possible were educated in boarding schools. Mothers who gave birth in church run mother and baby homes were not allowed to feed their new borns at night or spend much time with them during the day. Even married mothers who had paid to stay there. Church denomination leaders are often boarding school educated too.
Hi @lemsip207, thank you for your comments. I so agree. You might be interested in this interview with Sarah Ockwell-Smith ruclips.net/video/ijqYaxlXK34/видео.html who talks about this a lot in her book, Because I Said So. Take care, Piers
It's all part of UK culture led by boarding school culture. That's why parents were discouraged from touching their children and handling their babies as little as possible.
I wonder about a link between a lack of touch and turning the resultant learned self-loathing, that anger, onto oneself, with the end point being suicide.
It is most essential in the first two years of life as the damage is done if there isn't enough touching then. Dr Spock wrote about how important it was.
Thanks Nicky for your comments. So true. I would be fascinated by that research. I know quite a few boarders and ex-boarders who have committed suicide and I wonder how much is due to the lack of touch. In Buddhism they say that suicide is violence towards the self. Take care, Piers
Bolby's work on 'attachment theory' also accords with this idea. Having worked in special education with neglected and abused children, I can also confirm the importance of what is referred to as therapeutic touch and the importance of this in bringing these children back to a human connected world. Educational therapeutic settings do see the value of therapeutic touch, however much of contemporary paranoid management styles in education do not understand the importance of platonic intimate haptic interaction.
Thanks for sharing @Humanity101-zp4sq. Interestingly Bowlby originally wanted to call attachment theory, Love Theory but was persuaded otherwise. It sounds like you are doing wonderful work, take care, Piers
A most touching speech Piers. I always think of life on earth with David Attenborough and how the final programme ended with him being accepted by a load of Gorillas in the Congo who were all lying around stroking and touching each other. It is us rather than them who have lost the plot. Touching is not just nice. It is a thoroughly necessary biological programme for our mental wellbeing as a species. Certainly in British society there can be two extremes. The clench or the shaking of the hands or the peck on the cheek which can last for under five seconds. And then for those in relationships that sanction it full blown sexual intercourse - though this may not actually be that loving or affectionate or even that imaginative. But it is the in between - the prolonged hugging and the touching and the stroking - that we need most of all. Apart from anything else it is what makes sex real and meaningful and not just the using of someone else's body as a masterbatory tool. Women in particular of course really really want to be held and caressed and stroked after love making and be told how special they are and that they really matter. Some men will do this and very happily so. Others will feel a sense of shame and anger and guilt and turn over and fall asleep (or pretend to be asleep) I don't think enough men realise just how very very upsetting this can be for many women. But men need touching with sex too. And not just physical touching. In a survey in the USA around 50% of men who saw prostitutes did so not primarily for the sex but for the company - indeed the human touch.
Thank you Richard for your reflections as always. So true. We yearn for touch. And we didn't receive any positive touch at these schools for years. Take care, Piers
Sounds like it could be true. However, some countries are pretty violent compared to the UK. Europe has far the lowest murder rate. When we look at murder rates by country, it is clear that "touching" is not the leading cause. Europe has the least murders of any continent, bu, Ignoring tiny island populations and countries with populations of less than 10 million, the safest countries are in the far east. Japan and Indonesia... The Japanese are not touchy feely at all!
Hi @didougedy, thanks for sharing. Really interesting. This is one of James Prescott's articles which gives a greater perspective of it: www.violence.de/prescott/pppj/article.html Take care, Piers
"Love is touch, touch is love. Love is reaching, reaching love. Love is asking to be loved" Verse 2 of John Lennon's song Love. Something is seriously wrong with a society without love at its helm!
Hi Piers, interesting movie. When I was born I was put straight into an incubator for the first days of my life - no touch. I wonder what that did to my personal development as a human being but also perhaps you can get data on people that were born and put into incubators and how that correlates with future violent behaviour. Grt
Thank you @TimpeTuyt for sharing. I have worked quite a few people who spent the first few weeks in an incubator and really struggled with intimacy in adult life. Take care, Piers
Touch creates ‘feel good’ chemicals all very soothing and touch and cuddling need to be life long too…… Why do you think some children and adults are so ‘attached’ to their cats and dogs….. same reason. I’ve lived this and observed this….interestingly this links back to the story of Cain and Abel. Cain killed Abel due to anger issues (wont go down the rabbit hole of why inc attachment and parenting styles!) but was allowed to live his son Enoch though worked on himself in every way including good deeds and refining himself and apparently evolved through his good deeds into being taken by God ……!!! Basically he achieved what we call today ‘Christ Consciousness’……… which is the real meaning of ‘the second coming’………. Life’s a riddle we are here to work out and we are all Spiritual Beings……. Despite everything including Christianity being ‘dumbed down’ ………….. It’s a choice grow up or be manipulated……. ? Dorothy Rowe wrote ‘life has no meaning other than what we give it’ actually as we are in fact Spiritual Beings it always ‘has meaning’?
Thank you @TheIansharp73, it is interesting to note that the 3 main advisors during lockdowns were ex-boarders. Patrick Valance, Chris Whitty and Boris Johnson. The ABCD of boarding school syndrome is Abandonment, Bereavement, Captivity and Dissociation. As Peter Levine points out about trauma: "The man who was hit as a child will feel compelled to hit as an adult." Take care, Piers
Many of the doctors writing baby care manuals decades ago which advised mothers to touch their babies as little as possible were educated in boarding schools.
Mothers who gave birth in church run mother and baby homes were not allowed to feed their new borns at night or spend much time with them during the day. Even married mothers who had paid to stay there. Church denomination leaders are often boarding school educated too.
Hi @lemsip207, thank you for your comments. I so agree. You might be interested in this interview with Sarah Ockwell-Smith ruclips.net/video/ijqYaxlXK34/видео.html who talks about this a lot in her book, Because I Said So. Take care, Piers
Piers...this is SO true! Thank you!
It's all part of UK culture led by boarding school culture. That's why parents were discouraged from touching their children and handling their babies as little as possible.
Thank you @gail777
I make it a rule to never be the first to let go when hugging my son.
That's a really sweet rule! I shall adopt it if I'm lucky enough to have a son someday.
Thank you @shoutatthesky, wow, that's really beautiful. Thanks for sharing, Piers
I wonder about a link between a lack of touch and turning the resultant learned self-loathing, that anger, onto oneself, with the end point being suicide.
It is most essential in the first two years of life as the damage is done if there isn't enough touching then. Dr Spock wrote about how important it was.
@@lemsip207 I think it's vital throughout the development of a child.
Thanks Nicky for your comments. So true. I would be fascinated by that research. I know quite a few boarders and ex-boarders who have committed suicide and I wonder how much is due to the lack of touch. In Buddhism they say that suicide is violence towards the self. Take care, Piers
Bolby's work on 'attachment theory' also accords with this idea. Having worked in special education with neglected and abused children, I can also confirm the importance of what is referred to as therapeutic touch and the importance of this in bringing these children back to a human connected world. Educational therapeutic settings do see the value of therapeutic touch, however much of contemporary paranoid management styles in education do not understand the importance of platonic intimate haptic interaction.
Thanks for sharing @Humanity101-zp4sq. Interestingly Bowlby originally wanted to call attachment theory, Love Theory but was persuaded otherwise. It sounds like you are doing wonderful work, take care, Piers
A most touching speech Piers. I always think of life on earth with David Attenborough and how the final programme ended with him being accepted by a load of Gorillas in the Congo who were all lying around stroking and touching each other. It is us rather than them who have lost the plot. Touching is not just nice. It is a thoroughly necessary biological programme for our mental wellbeing as a species. Certainly in British society there can be two extremes. The clench or the shaking of the hands or the peck on the cheek which can last for under five seconds. And then for those in relationships that sanction it full blown sexual intercourse - though this may not actually be that loving or affectionate or even that imaginative. But it is the in between - the prolonged hugging and the touching and the stroking - that we need most of all. Apart from anything else it is what makes sex real and meaningful and not just the using of someone else's body as a masterbatory tool. Women in particular of course really really want to be held and caressed and stroked after love making and be told how special they are and that they really matter. Some men will do this and very happily so. Others will feel a sense of shame and anger and guilt and turn over and fall asleep (or pretend to be asleep) I don't think enough men realise just how very very upsetting this can be for many women. But men need touching with sex too. And not just physical touching. In a survey in the USA around 50% of men who saw prostitutes did so not primarily for the sex but for the company - indeed the human touch.
Thank you Richard for your reflections as always. So true. We yearn for touch. And we didn't receive any positive touch at these schools for years. Take care, Piers
Sounds like it could be true. However, some countries are pretty violent compared to the UK. Europe has far the lowest murder rate. When we look at murder rates by country, it is clear that "touching" is not the leading cause. Europe has the least murders of any continent, bu, Ignoring tiny island populations and countries with populations of less than 10 million, the safest countries are in the far east. Japan and Indonesia... The Japanese are not touchy feely at all!
Fair point.
Hi @didougedy, thanks for sharing. Really interesting. This is one of James Prescott's articles which gives a greater perspective of it: www.violence.de/prescott/pppj/article.html Take care, Piers
Bravo, Piers! A very important message and a great video.
Thank you Andrew, take care, Piers
"Love is touch, touch is love. Love is reaching, reaching love. Love is asking to be loved" Verse 2 of John Lennon's song Love. Something is seriously wrong with a society without love at its helm!
Hi Piers, interesting movie. When I was born I was put straight into an incubator for the first days of my life - no touch. I wonder what that did to my personal development as a human being but also perhaps you can get data on people that were born and put into incubators and how that correlates with future violent behaviour. Grt
Thank you @TimpeTuyt for sharing. I have worked quite a few people who spent the first few weeks in an incubator and really struggled with intimacy in adult life. Take care, Piers
Touch creates ‘feel good’ chemicals all very soothing and touch and cuddling need to be life long too……
Why do you think some children and adults are so ‘attached’ to their cats and dogs….. same reason.
I’ve lived this and observed this….interestingly this links back to the story of Cain and Abel. Cain killed Abel due to anger issues (wont go down the rabbit hole of why inc attachment and parenting styles!) but was allowed to live his son Enoch though worked on himself in every way including good deeds and refining himself and apparently evolved through his good deeds into being taken by God ……!!!
Basically he achieved what we call today ‘Christ Consciousness’……… which is the real meaning of ‘the second coming’……….
Life’s a riddle we are here to work out and we are all Spiritual Beings……. Despite everything including Christianity being ‘dumbed down’ …………..
It’s a choice grow up or be manipulated……. ?
Dorothy Rowe wrote ‘life has no meaning other than what we give it’ actually as we are in fact Spiritual Beings it always ‘has meaning’?
Covid - don't hug don't kiss don't shake hands stay 6 feet apart.
Thank you @TheIansharp73, it is interesting to note that the 3 main advisors during lockdowns were ex-boarders. Patrick Valance, Chris Whitty and Boris Johnson. The ABCD of boarding school syndrome is Abandonment, Bereavement, Captivity and Dissociation. As Peter Levine points out about trauma: "The man who was hit as a child will feel compelled to hit as an adult." Take care, Piers
yessss......
Maybe. The Japanese are renown for not being "touchy feely".. But they have the lowest murder rate of any large country by far...