I just started using this technique this week also. Everyone uses an OD pedal for the eq curve. But this way we dont have to mess with the natural saturation of the amp. We can also match the exact curve of any pedal if we want too. Also doing small Pre Eq moves you can emulate having different pickups.
I never thought owning 10+ amp heads made any sense back when I started learning and I still think that today when I can switch between 20+ different ones on my laptop at an instant. After a certain point they all sound similar, with very few exceptions. This video is yet another example that proves that. Effects are much more interesting imho.
Fantastic content and explanation. I have been using Pre-EQ for quite a while but the examples given in this video are great and I am happy Mikko confirms what I have been preaching for a good while. Awesome!
This was a very important lesson that I learned years ago and it can be expanded with the additional use of putting in an EQ in the effect loop and also throwing one on post IR. And then the next rabbit hole is to use dynamic EQ/compression post IR. And then there is the final step of blending two amps (e.g. one looser and darker and ghe orher brighter and tighter) for an ideap hybrid tone. But then I found my perfect tone without the need of any trickeration in a different amp (i.e. Wizard amps). I could get my Mark IIC+, V, and dual rec Roadster to sound how I wanted after applying a bunch of these EQ tricks, but the Wizards dial in right to where I want without needing to mess with any EQ tricks, which is exponentially easier and more versatile. It's a journey down the never needing tone chasing rabbit hole where compromises are needed to be made. But once I found the solution that gets me everything I wanted without any fuss, I could finally allow my focus to be where it belongs, on the actual playing and writing.
@@MaxMCMLXXXV well I just put a compressor before the amp plugin I use a simple one called jw guitar it's got a preset called chug slayer I hit it hard on loudness but I recon a multi band compressor would work just as well probably better I might try the multi band compressor myself now 😂 but yea then I hit an overdrive pedal. I use amplitube so I use the ocd pedal with the low pass on into a stack of triple recto and deisel vh4 into @mikko mega og ir it has pretty tame low end and chugs nicely.
@@MaxMCMLXXXV no problem man. I tend to only light eq afterwards for transient balance i hate compression aftwrwards I find the guitar losses it of bite unless it's light compression but my problem is getting my drums to kick through the guitar 😂
Super cool hack, more or less solved my hankering for a Fortin Grind pedal did this trick! Learned this the hard way trying to dial in a Mesa Mark 4 and not knowing why this legendary amp sounded like a flubby mess!
Hey Mikko. I partly agree with this video. For mixing purposes I would think though, that you definitely want the harmonics from the low end of the DI in the total guitar tone. If you just make a HP filter before the amp you lose some of that and the tone will probably be less rich. Low end can easily just be removed after the amp. So adding low end before the amp is something I totally approve of, but removing it seems potentially damaging.,
I feel like you're not understanding the fundamental concepts that are at play here. If you add low end before the amp, the amp is going to distort more bass frequencies. This causes "flub" or muddy sound. Cutting low end before the signal hits the amp leaves the low frequencies of the guitar less distorted which results in a tighter, punchier tone. If you're going for 90's Alternative Mesa tone, you don't wanna cut low end before the amp. If you want a tight and reactive modern tone, you absolutely must cut low end before the gain is applied.
this one was a good one Mikko. Thanks! p.s just was pausing the video accidentally when tried to bypass the EQ few times to hear it compared to no-eq dual :)
He just basically explained the difference between amp sims. They start with a generic high gain amp coloration then shape it with EQ based on the amps characteristics. If it's a 'marshall', then bump the mids, if it's a 'mesa' scoop them and add sag in the low end etc. There's a guy on youtube that shows how to build an amp sim from scratch and it's surprisingly not that complicated.
Can't thank you enough for taking the time to make this video and sharing your knowledge. I downloaded Stevie T plugin and the fluff amped roots. I am just not able to get a similar or usable tone from these, like I saw in Stevie T and also your video. It sounds very very boomy and muddy. Something is just not right. Am I doing something wrong? Or maybe you and Stevie T used this pre EQ technique on both of your videos? I own many of your impulse response and love them. Thanks for everything Mikko!
Improved tighter low end on Dual with HP but ML5 sounds better overall and is still one of my go to amp sims. Something about the ML5 distortion just sounds more organic which is interesting because ML Sound Lab talks up the Vorna modeling which ML5 doesn't have yet. Overall good vid!
It has more clarity and doesn't have that "low fizz" from the Dual Rec's sag and slight latency in the bassiness of the amp itself. It's like there was a minor spill of extra low frequencies. So the ML5 "Charmin" wiped it to where it's entirely clean.
Mikko! I have to get you to help me for like 15 mins! I listen to every demo, own products etc but I can never get anything remotely close to what you are getting! It's all on my end i'm sure!
It's all about source tones - we don't post-process anything (outside of general master bus glue on mix demos) except where explicitly mentioned. Getting the sound right at the source is the main deal. Fresh strings, a good setup, the right pick, a good pick attack, and setting your input gain correctly will all impact your tone in a positive way. -Kai
Instead of using tube screamer in front of real amp, could I just use EQ pedal instead and just cut the lows? Would I have the same result or even better?
Depends on the amp, I'd say. Can't hurt to try it out though, the EQ pedal can help the amp to cut through the mix without the added saturation that a tube screamer would bring. The Pre-EQ can be thought of as kind of a pickup shaper - if you want to simulate having pickups with more cut and aggression, you can tweak the EQ to accommodate it. -Kai
ill be buying you mesa plugin next payday! does the mark 5 and dual rec come as a package? been looking for a good mesa suite, and just found yours! btw im so jealous of your home setup man! congrats youre very fortunate ;) ill be there one day too when i buy a house , much love!
Hello! Great video! Very informative! Quick questions: How do you capture your guitar DIs? Direct to the audio Interface? With a DI Box? A preamp? Wich One? Thanks!
Cool !! U should make posible to get another like pedals separate and be able to use them in your amp sims, like some overdrives cause al OD in the amp are kind of a tscream… so that way u could buy some BD-2 alike overdrive y use it !!
I don't know. I'm playing a 7 string primarily and if I cut above 140Hz my guitars loose a lot of low end and in lamest terms, balls. I cut somewhere around 100-120Hz and let my bass fundamentals growl around 80-120Hz. I figured a high pass is primarily genre specific, depends on the tuning and the desired sound. However, high passing around 200HZ was always too high for me.
You can run the EQ either in front of the amplifier as a pre-EQ (this will be similar to running slightly different pickups and cause the amp to act differently), or you can run it in the FX loop. Running it in the FX loop will make for more drastic results, but you're affecting the characteristics of the amp significantly. Hope this helps! -Kai
so in a sense, if you wanted to physically recreate this then one of those 7 band eq pedals would be good. would you even need the tube screamer at that point? so you'd have to play something DI so you could use something like fabfilter, then write down the frequencies you wanna cut or boost and then dial that into your eq pedal
Super powerful - cleaning up the signal before it hits the amp. Sort of like making your guitar signal sound superhumanly perfect with no clammy bits. :)
I'm always baffled by guitarists getting excited about pickups. Beyond a certain point (i.e., don't use a shit pickup) you can get most of what you want, even live, using an eq pedal. The difference between one pickup and another is the emphasis on certain frequencies - which you can duplicate using eq.
I just started using this technique this week also. Everyone uses an OD pedal for the eq curve. But this way we dont have to mess with the natural saturation of the amp. We can also match the exact curve of any pedal if we want too. Also doing small Pre Eq moves you can emulate having different pickups.
I never thought owning 10+ amp heads made any sense back when I started learning and I still think that today when I can switch between 20+ different ones on my laptop at an instant. After a certain point they all sound similar, with very few exceptions. This video is yet another example that proves that. Effects are much more interesting imho.
Yup plugins and amp sims are the future.
@@mlsoundlab Your plug-ins certainly are. I can't what for the ML5 and the Ark to get the Vorna update!
Wise, clever, thoughtful & concise. My best recent subscription.
This was veeeeery golden!!!!! I wish I had not sold my EQ-pedals, still sometimes using analog setup...
IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE DAYS
😂
Fantastic content and explanation. I have been using Pre-EQ for quite a while but the examples given in this video are great and I am happy Mikko confirms what I have been preaching for a good while. Awesome!
That's awesome - let's spread the word!
Yes Amped Dual def needs pre EQ for sure
This was awesome! Thank you for taking the time to share this info.
You're welcome! 💪
-Kai
This was a very important lesson that I learned years ago and it can be expanded with the additional use of putting in an EQ in the effect loop and also throwing one on post IR. And then the next rabbit hole is to use dynamic EQ/compression post IR. And then there is the final step of blending two amps (e.g. one looser and darker and ghe orher brighter and tighter) for an ideap hybrid tone. But then I found my perfect tone without the need of any trickeration in a different amp (i.e. Wizard amps). I could get my Mark IIC+, V, and dual rec Roadster to sound how I wanted after applying a bunch of these EQ tricks, but the Wizards dial in right to where I want without needing to mess with any EQ tricks, which is exponentially easier and more versatile. It's a journey down the never needing tone chasing rabbit hole where compromises are needed to be made. But once I found the solution that gets me everything I wanted without any fuss, I could finally allow my focus to be where it belongs, on the actual playing and writing.
Awesome video! Super valuable information. Thanks Mikko!
I wanted to post this question in prior videos but thought you would not answer, and now you made a video on it. Thank you kind sir👍
Please keep the questions coming. Definitely will cover things that deserve attention like f.ex. this. :)
Pre EQ is essential for crafting your guitar tone at least in my opinion
Yup - get the bad stuff out before gain so it doesn't get multiplied. :)
Damn good pointers here.much needed. tks Mikko
Great video, great guitar riff!
The Master of Guitar tones 🤘
Awesome! Dual sounds great!
Thanks so much! Embrace the bass. :P
Thank you much for sharing this technique. It really opens up some other doors for me. :)
Great video Mikko (and team). Thanks a lot :) P.S. Amped dual sounds great!
Thanks so much! Embrace the bass! :D
Thanks Mikko! Great info!
Thanks for checking it out!
I love to pre comp the low end it makes the chugs kick ass
Good idea! Need to try other effects as well.
Nice tip @paul - how would you implement ?
@@MaxMCMLXXXV well I just put a compressor before the amp plugin I use a simple one called jw guitar it's got a preset called chug slayer I hit it hard on loudness but I recon a multi band compressor would work just as well probably better I might try the multi band compressor myself now 😂 but yea then I hit an overdrive pedal. I use amplitube so I use the ocd pedal with the low pass on into a stack of triple recto and deisel vh4 into @mikko mega og ir it has pretty tame low end and chugs nicely.
@@Ambitiouz_mindset Cool! Thanks for the tip
@@MaxMCMLXXXV no problem man. I tend to only light eq afterwards for transient balance i hate compression aftwrwards I find the guitar losses it of bite unless it's light compression but my problem is getting my drums to kick through the guitar 😂
Than you for this!!!! 🔥🤘
No worries! Have fun.
Amazing!
Super cool hack, more or less solved my hankering for a Fortin Grind pedal did this trick! Learned this the hard way trying to dial in a Mesa Mark 4 and not knowing why this legendary amp sounded like a flubby mess!
excellent
Hey Mikko. I partly agree with this video.
For mixing purposes I would think though, that you definitely want the harmonics from the low end of the DI in the total guitar tone. If you just make a HP filter before the amp you lose some of that and the tone will probably be less rich.
Low end can easily just be removed after the amp. So adding low end before the amp is something I totally approve of, but removing it seems potentially damaging.,
I feel like you're not understanding the fundamental concepts that are at play here. If you add low end before the amp, the amp is going to distort more bass frequencies. This causes "flub" or muddy sound. Cutting low end before the signal hits the amp leaves the low frequencies of the guitar less distorted which results in a tighter, punchier tone. If you're going for 90's Alternative Mesa tone, you don't wanna cut low end before the amp. If you want a tight and reactive modern tone, you absolutely must cut low end before the gain is applied.
this one was a good one Mikko. Thanks! p.s just was pausing the video accidentally when tried to bypass the EQ few times to hear it compared to no-eq dual :)
Killer video.
NB : 15:50 you can do the same with real amps, but it's definitely easier ITB :)
He just basically explained the difference between amp sims. They start with a generic high gain amp coloration then shape it with EQ based on the amps characteristics. If it's a 'marshall', then bump the mids, if it's a 'mesa' scoop them and add sag in the low end etc. There's a guy on youtube that shows how to build an amp sim from scratch and it's surprisingly not that complicated.
yes great trick !!!
Sweet tip
Thanks buddy!
Great Video! Try this out!
Hello friend, great video! It would be nice to make the same video about the bass guitar
Can't thank you enough for taking the time to make this video and sharing your knowledge.
I downloaded Stevie T plugin and the fluff amped roots.
I am just not able to get a similar or usable tone from these, like I saw in Stevie T and also your video.
It sounds very very boomy and muddy. Something is just not right.
Am I doing something wrong?
Or maybe you and Stevie T used this pre EQ technique on both of your videos?
I own many of your impulse response and love them.
Thanks for everything Mikko!
This is Soo cool couse it can tighten your guitar without adding gain and unwanted noise
Exactly! Super powerful tool for sure. Glad you like it!
-Kai
@@mlsoundlab hey would you use this EQ before or after a gate ? Even in a free amp sim situation. Here you use it before the ml dual gate isn't it?
Improved tighter low end on Dual with HP but ML5 sounds better overall and is still one of my go to amp sims. Something about the ML5 distortion just sounds more organic which is interesting because ML Sound Lab talks up the Vorna modeling which ML5 doesn't have yet. Overall good vid!
It has more clarity and doesn't have that "low fizz" from the Dual Rec's sag and slight latency in the bassiness of the amp itself. It's like there was a minor spill of extra low frequencies. So the ML5 "Charmin" wiped it to where it's entirely clean.
We. need. more. Guitar. Hacks. videos.!
Working on it! 💪
-Kai
Mikko! I have to get you to help me for like 15 mins! I listen to every demo, own products etc but I can never get anything remotely close to what you are getting! It's all on my end i'm sure!
It's all about source tones - we don't post-process anything (outside of general master bus glue on mix demos) except where explicitly mentioned. Getting the sound right at the source is the main deal. Fresh strings, a good setup, the right pick, a good pick attack, and setting your input gain correctly will all impact your tone in a positive way.
-Kai
Nice trick
Instead of using tube screamer in front of real amp, could I just use EQ pedal instead and just cut the lows? Would I have the same result or even better?
Depends on the amp, I'd say. Can't hurt to try it out though, the EQ pedal can help the amp to cut through the mix without the added saturation that a tube screamer would bring. The Pre-EQ can be thought of as kind of a pickup shaper - if you want to simulate having pickups with more cut and aggression, you can tweak the EQ to accommodate it.
-Kai
Great video! rakastan!
Finns use that word very sparingly. :D But hey - that's awesome! Shoulder taps.
Whats the IR? Sounds very good.
ill be buying you mesa plugin next payday! does the mark 5 and dual rec come as a package? been looking for a good mesa suite, and just found yours! btw im so jealous of your home setup man! congrats youre very fortunate ;) ill be there one day too when i buy a house , much love!
Hello! Great video! Very informative!
Quick questions: How do you capture your guitar DIs? Direct to the audio Interface? With a DI Box? A preamp? Wich One? Thanks!
Cool !! U should make posible to get another like pedals separate and be able to use them in your amp sims, like some overdrives cause al OD in the amp are kind of a tscream… so that way u could buy some BD-2 alike overdrive y use it !!
Thank you for the feedback!
-Kai
Miko please add an eq in the future plugins pedalboard section !!! this video is gold !! thank you !!
Your daw has an eq
Pretty much for a heavy dist. guitars a roll-off under 200Hz is advisable...
I don't know. I'm playing a 7 string primarily and if I cut above 140Hz my guitars loose a lot of low end and in lamest terms, balls. I cut somewhere around 100-120Hz and let my bass fundamentals growl around 80-120Hz.
I figured a high pass is primarily genre specific, depends on the tuning and the desired sound. However, high passing around 200HZ was always too high for me.
Mikko, when are you bringing your sims to iOS? I'm 100% iPad based rig and feel like I'm missing out. Please consider us non-PC/Mac plebs.
And of course thinner strings like 9's or 10's have much less low end anyway.
I still prefer the ml 5 sound 🤷♂️....great video
Perfectly fine! I love ML5 as well.
What IR was used for this tests?:)
This was ML-MEGA-OS-Almighty ;)
Interesting! What IR did you use?
To keep the amp sims comparable it was ML-MEGA-OS-Almighty mix for all guitar tones here.
how do you put an EQ pedal if you have a amp combo? is it impossible do you need an fx loop?
You can run the EQ either in front of the amplifier as a pre-EQ (this will be similar to running slightly different pickups and cause the amp to act differently), or you can run it in the FX loop. Running it in the FX loop will make for more drastic results, but you're affecting the characteristics of the amp significantly. Hope this helps!
-Kai
Yaaaaaàs
OH YAAAAA!!
so in a sense, if you wanted to physically recreate this then one of those 7 band eq pedals would be good.
would you even need the tube screamer at that point?
so you'd have to play something DI so you could use something like fabfilter, then write down the frequencies you wanna cut or boost and then dial that into your eq pedal
I thought I was the only one who did this, I live in a bubble. I blame the pandemic
Super powerful - cleaning up the signal before it hits the amp. Sort of like making your guitar signal sound superhumanly perfect with no clammy bits. :)
It would be extraordinary if your amps were Stereo!! Why don't you implement them like that?!
I'm always baffled by guitarists getting excited about pickups. Beyond a certain point (i.e., don't use a shit pickup) you can get most of what you want, even live, using an eq pedal. The difference between one pickup and another is the emphasis on certain frequencies - which you can duplicate using eq.
Yes, but if you have the right pickup, then you don't need to use the EQ pedal, which is nice :)
There is no way that Dual Rectifier sounds like this in real life. Nevertheless I`m thankful for the video.
The bass guitar sound in this mix is not suitable. It is too subby, it needs more string springness aggression. It will make the mix explode!
это шляпа, как не эквализируй эти перделки