This is one of those videos that you can go back to and watch over and over again every few months for the entertainment and informative value. Watched it when it first dropped and here I am again
Your videos are a breath of fresh air. Your down to Earth, witty, sarcastic style is very entertaining to watch. Also, I can't tell you how I appreciate you not ramming the highest end tools down our throats. Tools that most can't afford, but you happen to have "sent to" you by the company. Keep it up man - you deserve more subs!
My god someone finally calling out the overkill of woodpeckers products. 1000% true machinist squares are so much more accurate. Aluminum and a marking knife will kill your accuracy over time So why buy them? So over priced over hyped Woodpeckers will never be in my shop. Also I own the incra Tiny T and Long T. Thanks for this great video and your honest opinions!
All of my friends who want to get into woodworking, I tell them before they do anything to watch your videos. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into this.
I have a unique ( or maybe not so much) job where I work on older houses where everything is out of square and out of plumb and I often find myself splitting the difference to achieve the best results. My problem lies in not having a shop to bring these pieces to, therefore having only worksite tools. No giant table saws, bandsaws taller than me etc. I'm sure I'm not alone with this problem and I find myself doing all work on site using folding tables , clamps and whatever it takes to get the job done. I love my job and I guess I don't actually know where I'm heading with this rant. Thank you for your videos, keep them coming and I'll keep watching. Your work is appreciated . Peace
So refreshing to see someone only discussing functionality and not just praising a specific brand. I believe in “buy once cry once” but that doesn’t always mean go buy the most expensive thing you can find. Love your channel 👌🏼
Value & quality will always be subjective at the end of the day. I, too, like to balance the two. As some stuff I use rarely ever but it's nice to have the correct stuff for a job.
I absolutely needed to know this three years ago when I started buying tools. I bought the WP squares thinking the price meant best quality. I’m glad my wife saw through that when she bought the machinist squares. I use both, but more often the machines squares get the call when checking for square and setting up saw blades,
I use YT as a resource like most others. Kudos to you for producing comprehensive and informative content that doesn't waste my time but still injects your personal experience, perspective and advice. Cheers
As a poor person who really wants to get into woodworking I'm* all for videos showing me how I can save money. I think you do a great job of not only explaining where you can save money on your tools and when it's important not to go cheap, but you also show examples of good options for both. All this to say I would be interested in a jig video. Thank you for making and putting out this content, people don't realize that it's not easy to be in front of a camera and make things seem natural. You not only have to be a skilled and knowledgeable woodworker, you also have to learn camera skills, acting skills, editing skills, and marketing skills to learn about algorithms, views, and viewer engagement. I really appreciate your hard work and dedication to helping the rest of us out here crafting blindly in the dark. Your lighthearted approach is fun and refreshing. God bless from Florida.
If you are a hobbyist, you can do quite a bit of woodworking without all the machinery. Good, sharp hand tools are a pleasure to work with, are safer and less messy. The money you save can buy some good wood, and all the space you save can give you more room to work in.
Another fine video brother. I, for one, would really like to see your money saving jigs. Great tips throughout this video. Especially the squares. Thanks for keeping it real!
Please make more frequent videos. Love the videos and information. Straight talk and no BS! Imagine that in today's world. Slowly becoming my favorite channel. Thank you.
@@banja9172 yeah, l live in both worlds. Well aware of the differences. One thing I always bring up to to people why switching is so hard. For folks in the USA, it's hard to visualize what 18mm looks like. People know that roughly 30cm is a foot. But it's hard to visualize it. Just like it's near impossible for you to visualize what a 14" piece would look like. People who grown up with have an instant sense of how long that is. In the military, everyone uses meters. Including US. 1 klick is a km. You navigate using klicks, you qualify on 250 or 300m targets, you adjust arty fire using meters. But oddly, the aviation world uses feets and knots. (I think except for Sweden or Switzerland)
@@hansangb a balanced out comment. Visualisation is a real issue but only when it is resisted. I started converting in my head to 12" roughly 30cm/300mm and 1 yar approx 1mtr. Now I don't. I resisted the metric system for (admittedly, now) stupid unconscious bias of most things European (probably caused by a political bias in the News.. how insidious is that!).. till I realised the benefits of 10 base when calculating 'anything' in your head! UK had the imperial system for most of my life but it is definitely not easy to use in your head.. what is half of 1ft 3" and 7/8ths? some will be good at this but half of anything metric is so much easier to calculate even with a calculator. LOL
3:52 The Incras are great! I have a few different ones. You can get very precise markings. It is the only way to go. I don't have any problem with lead breaking, there is stronger leads out there too. Basically just use 0.5mm. Also I prefer a nice speed square over a combo square or double square anyday.
I drilled bigger holes in my Incra so that I could use a .7mm lead or a #2 pencil. Those .5mm leads break all the time for me. Any imperfection in the wood at all breaks the pencil lead off (again and again). I think that I just don't need such fine lines for the woodworking stuff that I do. Only if the wood is surfaced already can I get away with it. A rough piece of wood.. forget it for the .5mm leads!
@@tralfazy If I recall, it was Paul Sellers who brought my attention to the idea that you are cutting to the edge of a pencil line anyway, so the thickness of the line is not that critical.
Thanks for this video. I did seriously question myself on some layouts I did. I was convinced the square had to be off. This helped reinforce that belief.
Kudos for this video. As a moldmaker CNC machinist I congratulate to your very good points about tools and accuracy....Keep up the good work. This young man is very valuable...
I absolutely love my PEC blems. I also rely heavily on my engineers squares, the 90 and 45 for blade set up. Thought about the Delve square but opted for a small Milwaukee trim square and verified it's accuracy with my engineers square. I have the 6" Woodpeckers edge rule and love it. It is truly easy to spend way to much on all the "cool tools" that end up gathering dust. Thanks for the breakdown.
@CAD Thunkin Measure with a laser, mark with a chalk, and cut with an axe. I can't control my cuts no matter how accurate I marked it. LMFAO. May be some day it will get better.
I'm glad to see that you mentioned the differences between aluminum & steel/cast tools. My father was a high tolerance toolmaker for nuclear facilities & I was fortunate to learn the value of quality tools at a young age. Even so, I purchased a "high end" aluminum measuring tool that was highly regarded by many & it was early in my cabinetmaking career. It took all of one week to regret my decision as laying it down on any machine surface or coming into the slightest contact with almost any other tool created small dents & burrs that completely ruined it. I've spent the last 30+ years trying & in most cases convincing others to do the same, as accuracy & quality mean nothing if the materials used in its construction are inferior. If anyone is considering one of those high-priced tools with the colorful & fancy anodized finishes, avoid them like the plague unless you'd enjoy buying it again in a month.
Hey Charlie, ihm from Germany just reading the comments here, didn't know that my job is called Toolmaker in the US, German Word is Werkzeugmacher with is a 1:1 translation. Werkzeug =tool, Macher =maker. Still learning stuff at 55.
As a retired machinist, we will take quality tool steel or stainless most any day over aluminum. But I will say that those WP red tools are very accurate, have interesting little additional features built in, quality fit and finish, and will last a lifetime if you dont abuse them. I suspect they choose to use aluminum because it machines easily, gives a nice finish, and is easy on the bits.
@@alexxander4572 I worked with a German printing press (Man Roland) machinist and he introduced me to some of the very best tools made in Deutchland. Been a fan ever since. Cheers.
I definitely would like to see a video about the dial gauge jig. Also, found this super helpful. I’m going to start slowly replacing my home center tools now with some of these. I honestly think my progression as a woodworker has stalled because I can’t get precise and accurate measurements.
I'd have to agree with you. I cringed when I saw that Empire combo square (that I bought at Home Depot) that I use a lot for general layout and use to check square/parallel on my SawStop. First purchase is a PEC blemished combo square. Hey Jon, how about a video on how you made that mount for your dial gauge?
@@Lincolnstww GREAT Stuff - Any update ? A plan would be nice if you're not doing a video - THANKS It looks like the other slot has a nut and turning the bolt pinches to hold the bar in place? What are the 2 bottom holes that look like they contain set screws ?
Thank you for the video!!! So far my accuracy has never been limited by the accuracy of my tools, but finding the right tool and the right technique. I find wood woodworking does not required the best of the best in tools, but simply decent tools and a lot of knowledge and technique and experience in using them. Its taken me many months to figure out how to drill a hole with dead on accuracy. It did not require better tools, but the right tools and the right technique. Now I can nail it every time and am very happy with my hole drilling accuracy after quite a journey.
Great video. Like your presentation .... and the fact that I came to the exact same conclusions. Engineers square as a base; moderate speed square in my belt for site work; decent combi square for the bench and digital calipers that I use more than any other tool I own. Also 1,2,3 blocks come in really handy
This is genuinely the most important woodworking video I've ever seen. evry bit of info I have thought about. I don't know where to get these things or what tools are accurate thanks for laying it put in such a great vid
I haven't been getting these videos recommended for a while. Idk why but I had to look for the channel again. It's good to see like 130k more subs! Congrats
Other advantage to steel tools - you can use magnets to keep them organised. Never have to dig them out of a drawer or a box (while in your own workshop, anyway), and self-adhesive strips are cheap, and can sit on the edge of the bench so they can be close to hand while you work, too.
I put magnets in many of my aluminum tools. A realllly big downside of steel, rust. Low rust stainless, are very expensive, and not magnetic. But for me, aluminum is a godsend. Easy to work with, and create anything you need. From tracks, to pulleys, to tabletops... it's a very forgiving. Steel is a pain to deal with... I'm glad I dumped my old iron top machines for aluminum. I've seen no downsides (especially in my 115°F shop here in salty Florida lol... without aluminum here, I think 50% of my workload would be maintenance of equipment lol )
@@ChemEDan oh... it's horrible. This summer was very cool, but i ended up getting heat stroke all the same. Lucky, my wife is an RN and got me a chilled IV Fluids to drop my temp immediately or I would not have made it to the ER. And I'm able to handle heat really well, but I've worked my crippled body nearly to death this year. But after 8 years bound to a bed, and finally getting my neuro illness "managed" better... I can't slow down. It takes me 100x longer to do all tasks with 1 functioning arm/leg. So, my debt, and medical team here, keep me from leaving. If I wasn't nearly a million inedible debt, I'd built a workshop with AC... but having $25k for a 12x20 shed is nit a reality... but I did buy a better fan. Lol. So while Colorado is great... it's not feasible. And as hot as it gets here, it's better than the freezing cold. I'd mlbe in a frigid hell out there. Lol. So yeah... definitely gross. But gross and alive us better than not-gross, snd not being able to move my body from the cold lol.
Just had to say keep up the good work. As a noob learning the ropes, you are one of only a handful of youtubers that not only shoots straight but I appreciate the honesty in regards to reasons if I really need something or just want it because I saw someone say it's the only way to do it. :)
@Lincoln St. Woodworks The company you reference to in connection with Machinist Squares, KINEX, is a traditional Czech manufacturer with long history of manufacturing measuring devices and "precision engeneering" as you put it.
Excellent advice all around, though I have to admit my double squares (4" and 6" from lee valley) are my most used layout tools in the shop aside from my shinwa steel rulers (6", 12" and 24").
Started with your 'Izzy Swan Called Me an Idiot' video, had to back track and marathoned them all the way to this one. Good work. Good stuff. Great content.
I have a lot of tooling left over from my metal shop days, and they have made the transition to woodworking much easier. The accuracy is way overkill (hello Mitutoyo digital indicator) but it definitely affects the end product.
Great video. Thanks for sharing the good advise. I never knew how bad my measuring skills were until I started a "modified" French cleat project a few years back. Before buying an Incra Rule, I actually made a marking tool, with a hole, from a wireway cover. Then I found the Incra rules on RUclips. These are so good, they literally made the difference between a great success and the previous total failures. Looks like we're nearly neighbors, I'm down the road in Powdersville/Easley. Keep up the good work!
Great video man. Couldn't agree more on the avoiding cheap combination squares, have wasted some time and money before now with that. I'm a analogue caliper kind of guy too, but that's just me. Chur!
Worth mentioning is that a couple accurate tools (square, straight edge) can be used to test and potentially true up some cheaper tools. For example, after some judicious whacks with a hammer and punch my framing square is now spot on.
With the Incra rules, you can use a utility knife in the slots - just be careful to avoid cutting the rule with the knife blade. And all my rules are Starrett or PEC. And keep an eye for old Brown & Sharp or Lufkin.
For a mechanical pencil for woodworking I have really enjoyed the Staedtler Mars Technio, it has a 2 mm lead which is very durable and you can use the built-in sharpener built in to sharpen the lead.
One measurement with digital calipers that most people miss is the step. If you look at the back side of the calipers, the end of the fixed jaw and the sliding jaw are machined to be even when they're closed, and match the inside and outside gap measurement when they're open. A lot of people try to use the pin that slides out from the opposite end to take step measurements, but it's much easier to use this secret method.
I'll do you one better. Did you know that when the jaws are closed, one jaw makes a 90° and the other makes 82°? This is to figure out if you're using inch or metric countersinks.
That is very useful. The measurement end is much sturdier than using the 'pin' end for getting a depth measurement. It's too easy to have the pin at an angle. Thanks! Not sure why it never occurred to me to measure depth with that other end.
Thank you so much for this! And thank you for not doing the 'More$$ is better' hogwash. I recently discovered that my miters are off, not because i suck, but because my box store 45-degree combo square was off. Now I have to get a good 45 and re-calibrate everything. This video should be pinned to the top of every beginner (and middle!) woodworking how-to playlist. I subscribed three times just to make sure I don't miss any m,ore of your videos. Thanks, again!
I am machinist and Starret is the bar none gold standard. We also use PEC tools in our shop. If you don’t care about where a tool is made Mitutoyo makes good quality tools as well.
I thought it was a mistake when I saw the price of the PEC "blemish" squares (like the one he shows in the video), or thought I had found some internet scam or something, but I bought one anyway... Lo and behold, as in the video, the square is essentially exactly the same as a full-price one (the blemish on mine is almost impossible to notice). My Starrett square, while significantly more expensive, and surely accurate, has a finish that needs to be kept oiled to prevent it from getting a rust-like tarnish. I actually prefer the PEC for most things since I feel better about beating on it. I would say Germany, Japan, and USA are all similar for high-precision tooling, and would have no complaints with Mitutoyo tools - they make some sweet calipers and dial gauges.
Nice one. I agree on 99%. I do like the Woodpecker measuring sticks, they make a lot of measurements easier then a tape measure and they look great hanging on a shop wall or laying on the correct shelf displayed. 😉😁
As a machinist who eventually began dabbling in carpentry (because why not?) I firmly believe that the closer the tolerance the better the result no matter the material used. I use machinist’s squares, mics, calipers, and indicators on my projects as a novice (at best) carpenter and receive tons of customer compliments.
I forgot to add: Starrett is built well & in the USA, but for my production projects I use Mitutoyo coolant-proof tools only because I already own them for coolant flooded mill work. Stupid accurate calipers for only $300 on reputable sites such as MSC. My advice is to stay away from less costly fake Mitutoyo that are shitty copies made by the chicoms as they are no where near as accurate nor durable. Buy once, cry once.
I would suggest there is a balance. If you want to spend an inordinately long time making your length of timber as accurate as it might need to be for a space rocket, then that’s your choice. I’ve been woodworking for over 45 years and think I’ve learnt how accurate you need to be. Natural timber (non made products such as MDF, plywood and engineered beams) moves. It moves across the grain in hours or even minutes. Therefore what was super accurate before lunch isn’t so in the afternoon. In addition, the fibres on timber do mess up super-accuracy. When you cut something with a saw, the fibres crush, cut or move - and the amount depends on the coarseness of the grain of the timber. If you want better accuracy, then you can plane or sand to a better finish but, be aware, adhesives don’t work so well with super smooth finishes. Most adhesives recommend nothing finer than 150 grit. So, the lesson I’ve learnt is to balance time spent against relevant accuracy.
Excellent information with a presentation just as strong. Made it to the 9:30 mark "Lincoln St. just saved you a bunch of money, but now we are going to spend it.." hilarious, instant sub
I actually bought a Starrett Combo Square as one of my first woodworking tool. My dad used one forever as his "speed square" on site and it took a beating and just worked, staying well within true enough for framing to finish carpentry, so I feel a connection to him whenever I use mine. Plus once I get his I can put it in a place of honour. Love my square, even though it cost a fair bit, and get used on almost every project I do. I also got the center finder with it, not used often but great to have. I went with a 12" model, it seems to cover everything I do. Recently I got myself some of the small rules from Lee Valley, a precision square and pocket rule and they are very good for small layout and lines, I keep them in my pocket as they are just the right length for most jobs and super light. I want to get a small double square next, probably another Starrett, as I could of used that when working on my first tennons recently. The 12" square can be a bit much at times too, although I would still not change getting it first.
As a retired machinist- The machinist industry demands high quality precision tools that perform like new even 10-20 years later. For that reason machinist tools are rarely made of aluminum. Buy quality steel tools that won't wear like aluminum or rust like Chinese steel. As a woodworker now I still build my projects with a machinist mentality, with an accuracy in thousandths, so I use tools that will consistently provide that. If you are less discerning, then by all means buy the cheaper tools. But if you realize later you really enjoy woodworking and want to up your game, you will have wished you bought the good stuff in the beginning. It's a buying decision that will differ with everyone.
Master sheet metal mechanic of 47 years I couldn't agree with you more. Especially when I was working on nuclear submarines and destroyers. I still have my Starrett and my 8" MItutoyo. They are 46 years old and are still as accurate as the first day.
@@kevinhogan715 If someone is looking for accuracy why even start with inferior tools. That's starting off at an automatic disadvantage. People in the trades like you and I realize the importance of quality tools that last forever. Cheers
Great Video, best purchase I ever made 20 years ago was a Starrett 12" combination square with satin chrome rule....I had no idea the pleasure I would get by working with such a fine tool.....I made the decision after working with one at work......the lines are engraved and it is a joy to use......by the way, I work in wood and metal......so accuracy and durability are important when working with hard material.....cheers from an old dude who loves tools, Paul in Florida
Good video, but the woodpecker indexable squares are about the same price as the Starrett these days. Both are crazy, but the price is about the same and the Starrett have been getting increasingly negative reviews. Just mentioning because this is all fresh in my head and my bank account balance having just done this research and made the purchase recently.
Wow, that was a lot of really good information. Now I want to go out in my garage/shop and see what tools I have been buying all these years. I'll be watching this video over a few times.
Very good video. One thing I'd like to comment on is using a square on a table saw. The first table saw I used was an inherited Ryobi, which had a really terrible blade insert. Not only was the throat ridiculously wide, but it was made with a rather springy metal. If you held the square down at all firmly, the insert visibly sagged. It also sagged during cuts. And it wasn't flush with the top of the table. Perfect other than that!😁 I should thank Ryobi because they forced me into making a good rigid zero-clearance insert with set screws for height adjustment. Not that hard to make and an absolute game changer.
I agree that machinist squares are essential for setup and some layout. And a precision straight-edge. I would also add at least one pair of 1-2-3 blocks. I also reccomend a good quality combination square. (I was lucky enough to be able to score an excellent Starret set - the rule, the square head, the protractor head, and the center finder head - when a woodworker in my area had a "retired and moving away" sale of his whole shop.) One thing about measuring and reference tools being steel - in the world of physical/dimensional calibration, steel is everywhere. Most of the tools being calibrated are steel, and most of the measurement standards (such as gage blocks) are also steel. This is important because the standards and the tools being calibrated have about the same thermal coefficient of expansion, which means that there is normally no need to correct for temperature. A tool made of aluminum, however has a different thermal coefficient and will therefore expand or contract a different amount than the standards. That makes the math of determining in or out of tolerance more complex, and adds to the total measurement uncertainty. All of my dimensional measuring tools are made of steel, because I know that if, for example, I compare two rulers I can expect all of the graduations to line up. However, trying to compare a steel rule to an aluminum or plastic rule would be pointless because of the different expansion rates. They would "probably" read the same if I maintained my workshop at a constant 20°C as calibration labs do. But I am retired from that environment, and I prefer my workshop warmer than that. Things get even more complicated when you add plastics to the mix, such as the common glue-up squares. The mould they are made in is square, but is the actual square square? Injection-moudled plastics can change over time due to internal stresses. I believe they eventualy reach an equilibrium state, but how much time does that take? I do have one tool from Woodpecker's - their small aluminum pocket square. It's size makes it convenient to keep in my pocket, and I know the thermal expansion/contraction will not make a VISIBLE difference when checking squareness. But it is for quick checks - it is not one of my reference tools. High quality measurement tools are not "essential" for beginner or casual woodworkers. It is possible to start and do reasonable work with low-cost tools. But the better measurement tools enable better precision and accuracy, which enables a better end product. The day I bought that Starret combination square, my old one from Harbor Freight instantly acquired the status of "honorable paperweight", and my work is improving.
Finally standing up to woodpecker products! Pretty cleaver designs but, you have to be very careful with them or your accuracy can be thrown just buy a brush or prick dent! Steel has it issues also, but my preference. Also depending on your work, you only need a few layout tools really and not a bunch of combo tools that repecate several tools, again it depends on what you build the most. Simple layout are the best! All good points you made in this video! I do prefer a dial vs digital cause you can discriminate better, and like a vernier it never needs batteries! Columbus Michigan
To beginner DIY woodworkers: you don't need the tolerances mentioned in the video for wood. Wood expands and contracts with humidity and temperature changes so even 1 hundredths of an inch is more than enough tolerance for good square builds. Get the cheap home center stuff, it works perfectly fine.
You're half correct. But wood moving across the grain has little to do with square cuts. Wood movement definitely impacts dimensions and the flatness of pieces. The true benefit of really accurate measuring is setting up tools like I mentioned - that's where errors compound. I would always encourage somehow starting out to remove variables wherever possible especially for reasonably nominal cost.
In general, I'm a believer in buying cheap first time, then buying expensive for whichever tools wear out; that way I invest in the tools that need to be replaced with something of better quality and longevity, and I don't then spend excess money on expensive versions of the cheap tools that I don't need to invest so much in.
Excellent advice. While I don't really need an extremely accurate combo level, I bought one about 40 years ago. I don't use it often, but it's the one square I usually know where it is. Nice video. I'll check out some more of yours.
Seriously am I taking crazy pills or is everyone in the comments and the video vastly overestimating the tolerances needed with diy wood working? Wood expands and contacts WAY more than "thousands" of an inch with a 1 degree change in temperature. All of these tools and "advice" are overkill.
I loved this video. I'm just now getting into woodworking and starting my first project. Been loving the content and especially as a former quality engineer this just seemed geared for me. I spent $200 on Taylors Toolworks from your recs and could not be more excited.
Excellent content. I'm a beginner kind of (it's been about 15 years since I did any real woodworking = I just retired so now I've finally got time and I'm building a new house with a woodworking shop) so I'll be looking for practical tools to get restarted. Love, love, love your explanations of each tool and it's accuracy. I'm a big believer in ROI, and like to buy things that will help make this hobby a bit less of a drain on my pocket book. I'll be teaching my grandkids (7 with one on the way) how to work with wood, so I'm really looking forward to this next chapter in my life. As for you question regarding doing a video on the tools used most in your shop, please do, I'd love to see it.
I am so pleased that you have taken Woodpeckers tools to task. THEY HAD TO USE Starrett tools to make their tools, so buy the tools from the company that Every manufacturer uses to make their product. It is especially frustrating that the major magazines are accepting Woodpeckers many page advertisements. Do you think they will ask you for an article that speaks the truth? It's a reason I have been considering to not renew those magazines that I have subscribed to for over twenty years. Thank you, thank you.
My supposed top end Stanley combination was out by 3 degrees but when I put a starrett blade in it that fixed it. I have a Starrett combination in 12 and 6in and both will take up to a 72in blade. I have 24in blade that I use way more than I thought I would. Also have an engineers square and a very old Starrett T square. A tool collector friend of mine gave me the handle and I bought a blade for it at work for peanuts. The 24in blade I bought for my combinations squares is accurately flat enough to set up my jointer top.
Thank you for another frank, brutal but true review of essential woodworking kit, I love it. I'm an amateur but recently purchased a small engineering square for tool tune up and a small combination square which I use constantly. Keep your content coming and I would like to see your jig clip for sure.
Good honest video. I've never understood the need to go all red on the wall LOL. The best work that I've seen are often made with cheaper but decent quality old tools. I find that Lee Valley stuff tend to be well designed and priced (some would argue otherwise on the pricing, but you get what you pay for). You can find some products cheaper or a bit more specialized, but they have a good trade off there.
5:49 for my money, the gold standard for a combination square is a Starrett set with the centering and protractor heads. Your great grandchildren will be able to use them and enjoy the same accuracy you get today.
@@Lincolnstww What's your source for that claim? I just saw a video of Abom79 touring the Starret factory in Massachussets, and combination squares were among the products they were making there, alongside the micrometers and dial indicators.
Another great video. One recommendation though. Whatever tape measure you go with stick with it. Not every tape measure is the same as other when going longer distances. I stick with my Fastcap tapes. And my machinist square sits by the tablesaw. After making an angled cut, I reset it with my machinist square. One more thing to add. I love the Paolini tools because it's small but sturdy. And it's very specific use. Once I set a distance, I use all three (sometimes) and I know it's a known distance that I can reset the fence/cutter/bit etc to. So it's used more for reference distance than anything else. Because it's so small, I put it in my toolbag and constantly reach for it. I do use my Starret levels as a straight edge and I think it's good enough for my use case. And I keep a 48" Empire level for jointing use for the tablesaw. Again, being off a few thou is OK for that use case. But I may have to pick up those straight edges. thanks!
Great point. I verified the accuracy of a dial caliper against Starrett micrometers and then started using it to check the accuracy of rulers, tape measures and other devices in my shop. The tape on my table saw was off by about 1/10" in 12 inches. It has an incremental fence as well but I still changed the tape out. A number of tape measures were removed from the wood/metal working shop and put in a separate garage to only be used when "close is good enough" like looking for raw material or building garage shelving.
I have one of those 6" black rulers. I find it very easy to see the lines. I also have a Utilitas hooked rule I got from Lee Valley. I've used it a lot but I always wanted to try the Woodpeckes version for the simple reason that the WP's has 1/32" increments and the Utilitas only has 1/16". I finally got the WP version of the hooked rule and have been using it for about a month now. I'm not blown out of the water by how much better it is but I do like it a bit more. I got the Paolini 8" rule a few weeks ago and I'm still learning how to use it well. I sort of wish I got the steel version because I can see how the aluminum version is going to get beat the heck up.
One indispensable tool in my shop is a 1-2-3 block: want 90° accuracy for the table saw, jointer fence, etc., ya cannot get any better - and they do not cost an arm an a let. Personally, it is just nice to reward oneself with Woodpecker, Infinity, Veritas, Bridge City, or Blue Spruce Tool Works tool every now and then: because you deserve it!
It's been a while since your last videos. Glad to see you're still into making informative videos. Keep up the good work. I like the idea of you showing off money making jigs.
I have the PEC 6” double square + extra 4” blade. This is my go to tool every time. Anything less than 4”, this is perfect bc of how light it is. 12” is hard to hold when marking small dimensions. The fact that the handle is a perfect 1” width, it works extremely well with 1-2-3 blocks for setup. May be add 1-2-3 blocks to your lists of must have. Cheap set of 2 under $20 are accurate to .0005”
Well done - lucidly described and practical. For me personally, a Starrett combination square (the 12" is my fav) is an imperative. It is the most-used tool in my shop. I rarely use machinist squares as the Starrett does everything a machinist square can do and I trust the Starrett more. And I agree on the straight edge. I've had a 36" Woodpeckers for a long time (48" would be better).
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This is one of those videos that you can go back to and watch over and over again every few months for the entertainment and informative value. Watched it when it first dropped and here I am again
Me too!
Your videos are a breath of fresh air. Your down to Earth, witty, sarcastic style is very entertaining to watch. Also, I can't tell you how I appreciate you not ramming the highest end tools down our throats. Tools that most can't afford, but you happen to have "sent to" you by the company. Keep it up man - you deserve more subs!
You said it perfectly. So sick of all the other over-the-top idiots pushing stupid products. LSW is direct, to the point, and no bullshit.
My god someone finally calling out the overkill of woodpeckers products. 1000% true machinist squares are so much more accurate. Aluminum and a marking knife will kill your accuracy over time So why buy them? So over priced over hyped Woodpeckers will never be in my shop. Also I own the incra Tiny T and Long T. Thanks for this great video and your honest opinions!
My man Keith here gets it.
That´s the problem with almost all US brands. Like DeWalt or Sawstop, way overpriced for the quality. You buy from abroad if you wanna buy smart.
"So over priced over hyped Woodpeckers will never be in my shop." Will you step up from that Yugo in the garage?
@@albertthesecond210 Lol nope aluminum is hot garbage next to a marking knife. And I dont own a Yugo. I own Festool and Starrett. Move on. 🙂
@@tekviper9 By the tone of your response we know where you store that 24-in Starrett straight edge! Sold the Yugo for a Geo Metro?
All of my friends who want to get into woodworking, I tell them before they do anything to watch your videos. Really appreciate the time and effort you put into this.
Yes to videos on basic jigs that will save me money please.
Let’s not limit ourselves to one’s that will save money. Let’s see some jigs that are going to cost us some money.
Or jigs to make jigs. It’s turtles all the way down!
+1 on jigs to save money please and thank you
Yes and jigs that won't cost me much money either
BRING ME ALL THE JIGS JON!
I have a unique ( or maybe not so much) job where I work on older houses where everything is out of square and out of plumb and I often find myself splitting the difference to achieve the best results. My problem lies in not having a shop to bring these pieces to, therefore having only worksite tools. No giant table saws, bandsaws taller than me etc. I'm sure I'm not alone with this problem and I find myself doing all work on site using folding tables , clamps and whatever it takes to get the job done. I love my job and I guess I don't actually know where I'm heading with this rant. Thank you for your videos, keep them coming and I'll keep watching. Your work is appreciated . Peace
So refreshing to see someone only discussing functionality and not just praising a specific brand. I believe in “buy once cry once” but that doesn’t always mean go buy the most expensive thing you can find. Love your channel 👌🏼
Value & quality will always be subjective at the end of the day. I, too, like to balance the two. As some stuff I use rarely ever but it's nice to have the correct stuff for a job.
I absolutely needed to know this three years ago when I started buying tools. I bought the WP squares thinking the price meant best quality. I’m glad my wife saw through that when she bought the machinist squares. I use both, but more often the machines squares get the call when checking for square and setting up saw blades,
I damn near spit out my coffee at the "cteven" part. Love your videos and your sense of humor. Keep up the great work!
Was it a triple Macchiato?
😂☕ Me Too
I'd probably pronounce it K'teven, and then get fired.
I use YT as a resource like most others. Kudos to you for producing comprehensive and informative content that doesn't waste my time but still injects your personal experience, perspective and advice. Cheers
As a poor person who really wants to get into woodworking I'm* all for videos showing me how I can save money. I think you do a great job of not only explaining where you can save money on your tools and when it's important not to go cheap, but you also show examples of good options for both. All this to say I would be interested in a jig video. Thank you for making and putting out this content, people don't realize that it's not easy to be in front of a camera and make things seem natural. You not only have to be a skilled and knowledgeable woodworker, you also have to learn camera skills, acting skills, editing skills, and marketing skills to learn about algorithms, views, and viewer engagement. I really appreciate your hard work and dedication to helping the rest of us out here crafting blindly in the dark. Your lighthearted approach is fun and refreshing. God bless from Florida.
If you are a hobbyist, you can do quite a bit of woodworking without all the machinery. Good, sharp hand tools are a pleasure to work with, are safer and less messy. The money you save can buy some good wood, and all the space you save can give you more room to work in.
The "Cteven" part was gold!
Another fine video brother. I, for one, would really like to see your money saving jigs. Great tips throughout this video. Especially the squares. Thanks for keeping it real!
Please make more frequent videos. Love the videos and information. Straight talk and no BS! Imagine that in today's world. Slowly becoming my favorite channel. Thank you.
Digital Calipers that show fractions are amazing. Don't know how I lived without them. Thanks for all the useful information Jon!
And the ones that you can force to a 32nd is even better. I mean, what am going to do with 77/128" LOL
@@hansangb 🤣 🤣 🤣
I could live without them cause I use the metric system 😉😁
@@banja9172 yeah, l live in both worlds. Well aware of the differences. One thing I always bring up to to people why switching is so hard. For folks in the USA, it's hard to visualize what 18mm looks like. People know that roughly 30cm is a foot. But it's hard to visualize it. Just like it's near impossible for you to visualize what a 14" piece would look like. People who grown up with have an instant sense of how long that is. In the military, everyone uses meters. Including US. 1 klick is a km. You navigate using klicks, you qualify on 250 or 300m targets, you adjust arty fire using meters. But oddly, the aviation world uses feets and knots. (I think except for Sweden or Switzerland)
@@hansangb a balanced out comment. Visualisation is a real issue but only when it is resisted. I started converting in my head to 12" roughly 30cm/300mm and 1 yar approx 1mtr. Now I don't. I resisted the metric system for (admittedly, now) stupid unconscious bias of most things European (probably caused by a political bias in the News.. how insidious is that!).. till I realised the benefits of 10 base when calculating 'anything' in your head! UK had the imperial system for most of my life but it is definitely not easy to use in your head.. what is half of 1ft 3" and 7/8ths? some will be good at this but half of anything metric is so much easier to calculate even with a calculator. LOL
Thanks! Fantastic money saving tips! I appreciate your insight and videos!😅
Thanks so much! Greatly Appreciated
3:52 The Incras are great! I have a few different ones. You can get very precise markings. It is the only way to go. I don't have any problem with lead breaking, there is stronger leads out there too. Basically just use 0.5mm. Also I prefer a nice speed square over a combo square or double square anyday.
My Incra Tiny-T lives in my apron pocket next to my Pentel 0.5mm pencil. I use both more than any other tool I own.
I drilled bigger holes in my Incra so that I could use a .7mm lead or a #2 pencil. Those .5mm leads break all the time for me. Any imperfection in the wood at all breaks the pencil lead off (again and again). I think that I just don't need such fine lines for the woodworking stuff that I do. Only if the wood is surfaced already can I get away with it. A rough piece of wood.. forget it for the .5mm leads!
@@tralfazy If I recall, it was Paul Sellers who brought my attention to the idea that you are cutting to the edge of a pencil line anyway, so the thickness of the line is not that critical.
@@rf8driver Good point
Something tells me you either worked in a machine shop, or learned from somebody who did. Great advice, delivered without the usual YT BS. THANKS!!!
Thanks for this video. I did seriously question myself on some layouts I did. I was convinced the square had to be off. This helped reinforce that belief.
Kudos for this video. As a moldmaker CNC machinist I congratulate to your very good points about tools and accuracy....Keep up the good work.
This young man is very valuable...
I absolutely love my PEC blems. I also rely heavily on my engineers squares, the 90 and 45 for blade set up. Thought about the Delve square but opted for a small Milwaukee trim square and verified it's accuracy with my engineers square.
I have the 6" Woodpeckers edge rule and love it.
It is truly easy to spend way to much on all the "cool tools" that end up gathering dust. Thanks for the breakdown.
@CAD Thunkin Measure with a laser, mark with a chalk, and cut with an axe. I can't control my cuts no matter how accurate I marked it. LMFAO. May be some day it will get better.
I love how you pay attention to detail. This makes it so much easier to listen to .
I'm glad to see that you mentioned the differences between aluminum & steel/cast tools. My father was a high tolerance toolmaker for nuclear facilities & I was fortunate to learn the value of quality tools at a young age. Even so, I purchased a "high end" aluminum measuring tool that was highly regarded by many & it was early in my cabinetmaking career. It took all of one week to regret my decision as laying it down on any machine surface or coming into the slightest contact with almost any other tool created small dents & burrs that completely ruined it. I've spent the last 30+ years trying & in most cases convincing others to do the same, as accuracy & quality mean nothing if the materials used in its construction are inferior. If anyone is considering one of those high-priced tools with the colorful & fancy anodized finishes, avoid them like the plague unless you'd enjoy buying it again in a month.
Hey Charlie, ihm from Germany just reading the comments here, didn't know that my job is called Toolmaker in the US, German Word is Werkzeugmacher with is a 1:1 translation.
Werkzeug =tool, Macher =maker. Still learning stuff at 55.
As a retired machinist, we will take quality tool steel or stainless most any day over aluminum. But I will say that those WP red tools are very accurate, have interesting little additional features built in, quality fit and finish, and will last a lifetime if you dont abuse them. I suspect they choose to use aluminum because it machines easily, gives a nice finish, and is easy on the bits.
@@alexxander4572 I worked with a German printing press (Man Roland) machinist and he introduced me to some of the very best tools made in Deutchland. Been a fan ever since. Cheers.
Thanks!
I definitely would like to see a video about the dial gauge jig. Also, found this super helpful. I’m going to start slowly replacing my home center tools now with some of these. I honestly think my progression as a woodworker has stalled because I can’t get precise and accurate measurements.
I'd have to agree with you. I cringed when I saw that Empire combo square (that I bought at Home Depot) that I use a lot for general layout and use to check square/parallel on my SawStop. First purchase is a PEC blemished combo square. Hey Jon, how about a video on how you made that mount for your dial gauge?
Yea, Jon, how did you make that cool jig ;-) ;-)
I will be sure to include the dial gauge mount in a jig video
@@Lincolnstww GREAT Stuff - Any update ? A plan would be nice if you're not doing a video - THANKS It looks like the other slot has a nut and turning the bolt pinches to hold the bar in place? What are the 2 bottom holes that look like they contain set screws ?
Hey John. Love all your videos, and antics! Would love ALL jig videos that you might produce> Thanks a bunch!
Thank you for the video!!! So far my accuracy has never been limited by the accuracy of my tools, but finding the right tool and the right technique. I find wood woodworking does not required the best of the best in tools, but simply decent tools and a lot of knowledge and technique and experience in using them. Its taken me many months to figure out how to drill a hole with dead on accuracy. It did not require better tools, but the right tools and the right technique. Now I can nail it every time and am very happy with my hole drilling accuracy after quite a journey.
Great video. Like your presentation .... and the fact that I came to the exact same conclusions. Engineers square as a base; moderate speed square in my belt for site work; decent combi square for the bench and digital calipers that I use more than any other tool I own.
Also 1,2,3 blocks come in really handy
This is genuinely the most important woodworking video I've ever seen. evry bit of info I have thought about. I don't know where to get these things or what tools are accurate thanks for laying it put in such a great vid
Glad it was helpful!
Kinex squares are really great, supper accurate and very affordable. Minor correction, they are from the Czech Republic not Germany.
your no bullshit approach and no overly friendly demeanor sold me on a sub. ty for the info boss
Excellent video Jon, probably the most comprehensive, well thought out and delivered presentation on the subject. Thank you for the time!!
I haven't been getting these videos recommended for a while. Idk why but I had to look for the channel again. It's good to see like 130k more subs! Congrats
Other advantage to steel tools - you can use magnets to keep them organised. Never have to dig them out of a drawer or a box (while in your own workshop, anyway), and self-adhesive strips are cheap, and can sit on the edge of the bench so they can be close to hand while you work, too.
I put magnets in many of my aluminum tools.
A realllly big downside of steel, rust. Low rust stainless, are very expensive, and not magnetic. But for me, aluminum is a godsend. Easy to work with, and create anything you need. From tracks, to pulleys, to tabletops... it's a very forgiving.
Steel is a pain to deal with... I'm glad I dumped my old iron top machines for aluminum. I've seen no downsides (especially in my 115°F shop here in salty Florida lol... without aluminum here, I think 50% of my workload would be maintenance of equipment lol )
@@carterscustomrods Gross! You need to get air conditioning or move to Colorado. It's dry enough here that evaporative cooling is satisfactory.
@@ChemEDan oh... it's horrible. This summer was very cool, but i ended up getting heat stroke all the same. Lucky, my wife is an RN and got me a chilled IV Fluids to drop my temp immediately or I would not have made it to the ER. And I'm able to handle heat really well, but I've worked my crippled body nearly to death this year. But after 8 years bound to a bed, and finally getting my neuro illness "managed" better... I can't slow down. It takes me 100x longer to do all tasks with 1 functioning arm/leg.
So, my debt, and medical team here, keep me from leaving. If I wasn't nearly a million inedible debt, I'd built a workshop with AC... but having $25k for a 12x20 shed is nit a reality... but I did buy a better fan. Lol.
So while Colorado is great... it's not feasible. And as hot as it gets here, it's better than the freezing cold. I'd mlbe in a frigid hell out there. Lol.
So yeah... definitely gross. But gross and alive us better than not-gross, snd not being able to move my body from the cold lol.
@@carterscustomrods A L U M I N I U M
@@stigkrakpants3052 T O M A T O... Y A B R I T C U N T !!! 🤣 🤣 🤣
Not only did you save me money, you saved me time by making my Christmas list this year, thanks!
Just had to say keep up the good work. As a noob learning the ropes, you are one of only a handful of youtubers that not only shoots straight but I appreciate the honesty in regards to reasons if I really need something or just want it because I saw someone say it's the only way to do it. :)
thanks
@Lincoln St. Woodworks
The company you reference to in connection with Machinist Squares, KINEX, is a traditional Czech manufacturer with long history of manufacturing measuring devices and "precision engeneering" as you put it.
Excellent advice all around, though I have to admit my double squares (4" and 6" from lee valley) are my most used layout tools in the shop aside from my shinwa steel rulers (6", 12" and 24").
I love the shinwa steel rulers!
Started with your 'Izzy Swan Called Me an Idiot' video, had to back track and marathoned them all the way to this one. Good work. Good stuff. Great content.
I have a lot of tooling left over from my metal shop days, and they have made the transition to woodworking much easier. The accuracy is way overkill (hello Mitutoyo digital indicator) but it definitely affects the end product.
I'm a CNC programer now. Was a machinist for many years. I definitely agree, everything from 1 2 3 blocks to
Machinist squares. All excellent tools
yep calipers for woodworking you realise how rough wood working is
@@lateatday9826 Right? First time I heard someone said “only off by 1/32” I was thinking WTH?
@@fitzmyron 1/32 is worse than rough stock for us🤣🤣
Great video. Thanks for sharing the good advise. I never knew how bad my measuring skills were until I started a "modified" French cleat project a few years back. Before buying an Incra Rule, I actually made a marking tool, with a hole, from a wireway cover. Then I found the Incra rules on RUclips. These are so good, they literally made the difference between a great success and the previous total failures. Looks like we're nearly neighbors, I'm down the road in Powdersville/Easley. Keep up the good work!
Great video man. Couldn't agree more on the avoiding cheap combination squares, have wasted some time and money before now with that. I'm a analogue caliper kind of guy too, but that's just me. Chur!
I just got my blem combo square from TayTools yesterday. Huge upgrade from the big box one it replaces!
Worth mentioning is that a couple accurate tools (square, straight edge) can be used to test and potentially true up some cheaper tools. For example, after some judicious whacks with a hammer and punch my framing square is now spot on.
I’ve heard of percussive maintenance but percussive squaring is new to me!
I have a center finding ruler, left over from my graphic design days, that I use almost daily. It’s 18” aluminum. Very handy.
With the Incra rules, you can use a utility knife in the slots - just be careful to avoid cutting the rule with the knife blade. And all my rules are Starrett or PEC. And keep an eye for old Brown & Sharp or Lufkin.
For a mechanical pencil for woodworking I have really enjoyed the Staedtler Mars Technio, it has a 2 mm lead which is very durable and you can use the built-in sharpener built in to sharpen the lead.
One measurement with digital calipers that most people miss is the step. If you look at the back side of the calipers, the end of the fixed jaw and the sliding jaw are machined to be even when they're closed, and match the inside and outside gap measurement when they're open. A lot of people try to use the pin that slides out from the opposite end to take step measurements, but it's much easier to use this secret method.
I'll do you one better. Did you know that when the jaws are closed, one jaw makes a 90° and the other makes 82°? This is to figure out if you're using inch or metric countersinks.
@@dk-bw4gk Alas, most aviation fasteners are a 100 degree countersink.
@@Dr_Mauser And there you have it, if it doesn't fit either jaw you have a 100° c'sink. :)
That is very useful. The measurement end is much sturdier than using the 'pin' end for getting a depth measurement. It's too easy to have the pin at an angle. Thanks! Not sure why it never occurred to me to measure depth with that other end.
@@tralfazy its like the combi squares that come with a pull out scribing pin yet few people even know its there... 😂
Thank you so much for this! And thank you for not doing the 'More$$ is better' hogwash. I recently discovered that my miters are off, not because i suck, but because my box store 45-degree combo square was off. Now I have to get a good 45 and re-calibrate everything. This video should be pinned to the top of every beginner (and middle!) woodworking how-to playlist.
I subscribed three times just to make sure I don't miss any m,ore of your videos. Thanks, again!
I am machinist and Starret is the bar none gold standard. We also use PEC tools in our shop. If you don’t care about where a tool is made Mitutoyo makes good quality tools as well.
I thought it was a mistake when I saw the price of the PEC "blemish" squares (like the one he shows in the video), or thought I had found some internet scam or something, but I bought one anyway... Lo and behold, as in the video, the square is essentially exactly the same as a full-price one (the blemish on mine is almost impossible to notice). My Starrett square, while significantly more expensive, and surely accurate, has a finish that needs to be kept oiled to prevent it from getting a rust-like tarnish. I actually prefer the PEC for most things since I feel better about beating on it. I would say Germany, Japan, and USA are all similar for high-precision tooling, and would have no complaints with Mitutoyo tools - they make some sweet calipers and dial gauges.
Mitutoyo is the industry standard...
Nice one. I agree on 99%. I do like the Woodpecker measuring sticks, they make a lot of measurements easier then a tape measure and they look great hanging on a shop wall or laying on the correct shelf displayed. 😉😁
As a machinist who eventually began dabbling in carpentry (because why not?) I firmly believe that the closer the tolerance the better the result no matter the material used. I use machinist’s squares, mics, calipers, and indicators on my projects as a novice (at best) carpenter and receive tons of customer compliments.
I forgot to add: Starrett is built well & in the USA, but for my production projects I use Mitutoyo coolant-proof tools only because I already own them for coolant flooded mill work. Stupid accurate calipers for only $300 on reputable sites such as MSC. My advice is to stay away from less costly fake Mitutoyo that are shitty copies made by the chicoms as they are no where near as accurate nor durable. Buy once, cry once.
I would suggest there is a balance. If you want to spend an inordinately long time making your length of timber as accurate as it might need to be for a space rocket, then that’s your choice. I’ve been woodworking for over 45 years and think I’ve learnt how accurate you need to be. Natural timber (non made products such as MDF, plywood and engineered beams) moves. It moves across the grain in hours or even minutes. Therefore what was super accurate before lunch isn’t so in the afternoon. In addition, the fibres on timber do mess up super-accuracy. When you cut something with a saw, the fibres crush, cut or move - and the amount depends on the coarseness of the grain of the timber. If you want better accuracy, then you can plane or sand to a better finish but, be aware, adhesives don’t work so well with super smooth finishes. Most adhesives recommend nothing finer than 150 grit.
So, the lesson I’ve learnt is to balance time spent against relevant accuracy.
I think the money saving jigs would be a great idea. Love your upfrontness, if that’s a understood made up word, and transparency in all your videos.
Basic Jigs That Save You Money video...?
...yes please!
Good video. Thank you. As a machinist of 23 years, I have access to all the good machinist tools and use them for the few woodworking projects I do.
You are one of the top 5 RUclips personalities out there. Every video is just quality. Keep it up and I wish you wild success!
Excellent information with a presentation just as strong. Made it to the 9:30 mark "Lincoln St. just saved you a bunch of money, but now we are going to spend it.." hilarious, instant sub
I actually bought a Starrett Combo Square as one of my first woodworking tool. My dad used one forever as his "speed square" on site and it took a beating and just worked, staying well within true enough for framing to finish carpentry, so I feel a connection to him whenever I use mine. Plus once I get his I can put it in a place of honour. Love my square, even though it cost a fair bit, and get used on almost every project I do. I also got the center finder with it, not used often but great to have. I went with a 12" model, it seems to cover everything I do.
Recently I got myself some of the small rules from Lee Valley, a precision square and pocket rule and they are very good for small layout and lines, I keep them in my pocket as they are just the right length for most jobs and super light. I want to get a small double square next, probably another Starrett, as I could of used that when working on my first tennons recently. The 12" square can be a bit much at times too, although I would still not change getting it first.
the honesty earned you a like but the marking knife ruler etching trick earned a subscribe, insanely good insight, keep it up
As a retired machinist- The machinist industry demands high quality precision tools that perform like new even 10-20 years later. For that reason machinist tools are rarely made of aluminum. Buy quality steel tools that won't wear like aluminum or rust like Chinese steel. As a woodworker now I still build my projects with a machinist mentality, with an accuracy in thousandths, so I use tools that will consistently provide that. If you are less discerning, then by all means buy the cheaper tools. But if you realize later you really enjoy woodworking and want to up your game, you will have wished you bought the good stuff in the beginning. It's a buying decision that will differ with everyone.
Master sheet metal mechanic of 47 years I couldn't agree with you more. Especially when I was working on nuclear submarines and destroyers. I still have my Starrett and my 8" MItutoyo. They are 46 years old and are still as accurate as the first day.
@@kevinhogan715 If someone is looking for accuracy why even start with inferior tools. That's starting off at an automatic disadvantage. People in the trades like you and I realize the importance of quality tools that last forever. Cheers
My Starrett combi square rusted 😢
@@iratevagabond204 Tell Starrett.
@@steadyeddie7453 What for?
Great Video, best purchase I ever made 20 years ago was a Starrett 12" combination square with satin chrome rule....I had no idea the pleasure I would get by working with such a fine tool.....I made the decision after working with one at work......the lines are engraved and it is a joy to use......by the way, I work in wood and metal......so accuracy and durability are important when working with hard material.....cheers from an old dude who loves tools, Paul in Florida
Good video, but the woodpecker indexable squares are about the same price as the Starrett these days. Both are crazy, but the price is about the same and the Starrett have been getting increasingly negative reviews. Just mentioning because this is all fresh in my head and my bank account balance having just done this research and made the purchase recently.
Wow, that was a lot of really good information. Now I want to go out in my garage/shop and see what tools I have been buying all these years.
I'll be watching this video over a few times.
I was given the 6” Starret combo square years ago. It is absolutely my go to and gets use in every project.
Got my 6inch 40 years ago and it's still in perfect condition. My 12 inch cost me $25.00 I have 3 of them now.
Very good video. One thing I'd like to comment on is using a square on a table saw. The first table saw I used was an inherited Ryobi, which had a really terrible blade insert. Not only was the throat ridiculously wide, but it was made with a rather springy metal. If you held the square down at all firmly, the insert visibly sagged. It also sagged during cuts. And it wasn't flush with the top of the table. Perfect other than that!😁 I should thank Ryobi because they forced me into making a good rigid zero-clearance insert with set screws for height adjustment. Not that hard to make and an absolute game changer.
I feel attacked. Sincerely, Psteven.
Great video. The info you share is great, entertaining, and relevant. You do a fantastic job
I agree that machinist squares are essential for setup and some layout. And a precision straight-edge. I would also add at least one pair of 1-2-3 blocks.
I also reccomend a good quality combination square. (I was lucky enough to be able to score an excellent Starret set - the rule, the square head, the protractor head, and the center finder head - when a woodworker in my area had a "retired and moving away" sale of his whole shop.)
One thing about measuring and reference tools being steel - in the world of physical/dimensional calibration, steel is everywhere. Most of the tools being calibrated are steel, and most of the measurement standards (such as gage blocks) are also steel. This is important because the standards and the tools being calibrated have about the same thermal coefficient of expansion, which means that there is normally no need to correct for temperature. A tool made of aluminum, however has a different thermal coefficient and will therefore expand or contract a different amount than the standards. That makes the math of determining in or out of tolerance more complex, and adds to the total measurement uncertainty.
All of my dimensional measuring tools are made of steel, because I know that if, for example, I compare two rulers I can expect all of the graduations to line up. However, trying to compare a steel rule to an aluminum or plastic rule would be pointless because of the different expansion rates. They would "probably" read the same if I maintained my workshop at a constant 20°C as calibration labs do. But I am retired from that environment, and I prefer my workshop warmer than that.
Things get even more complicated when you add plastics to the mix, such as the common glue-up squares. The mould they are made in is square, but is the actual square square? Injection-moudled plastics can change over time due to internal stresses. I believe they eventualy reach an equilibrium state, but how much time does that take?
I do have one tool from Woodpecker's - their small aluminum pocket square. It's size makes it convenient to keep in my pocket, and I know the thermal expansion/contraction will not make a VISIBLE difference when checking squareness. But it is for quick checks - it is not one of my reference tools.
High quality measurement tools are not "essential" for beginner or casual woodworkers. It is possible to start and do reasonable work with low-cost tools. But the better measurement tools enable better precision and accuracy, which enables a better end product. The day I bought that Starret combination square, my old one from Harbor Freight instantly acquired the status of "honorable paperweight", and my work is improving.
Finally standing up to woodpecker products! Pretty cleaver designs but, you have to be very careful with them or your accuracy can be thrown just buy a brush or prick dent! Steel has it issues also, but my preference. Also depending on your work, you only need a few layout tools really and not a bunch of combo tools that repecate several tools, again it depends on what you build the most. Simple layout are the best! All good points you made in this video! I do prefer a dial vs digital cause you can discriminate better, and like a vernier it never needs batteries! Columbus Michigan
To beginner DIY woodworkers: you don't need the tolerances mentioned in the video for wood. Wood expands and contracts with humidity and temperature changes so even 1 hundredths of an inch is more than enough tolerance for good square builds. Get the cheap home center stuff, it works perfectly fine.
You're half correct. But wood moving across the grain has little to do with square cuts. Wood movement definitely impacts dimensions and the flatness of pieces. The true benefit of really accurate measuring is setting up tools like I mentioned - that's where errors compound. I would always encourage somehow starting out to remove variables wherever possible especially for reasonably nominal cost.
Totally agree. You can get a good Japanese square on line for about $20.
THANK YOU! This channel is by far the best here. You get straight to the point and very clear and honest!
Jigs please!
Thank you! Awesome video. I never understood what Woodpecker is thinking with these prices! Glad to see I’m not alone.
In general, I'm a believer in buying cheap first time, then buying expensive for whichever tools wear out; that way I invest in the tools that need to be replaced with something of better quality and longevity, and I don't then spend excess money on expensive versions of the cheap tools that I don't need to invest so much in.
Excellent advice. While I don't really need an extremely accurate combo level, I bought one about 40 years ago. I don't use it often, but it's the one square I usually know where it is. Nice video. I'll check out some more of yours.
anyone thinking you need machinist tolerances with wood that changes with the humidity is beyond help
Seriously am I taking crazy pills or is everyone in the comments and the video vastly overestimating the tolerances needed with diy wood working?
Wood expands and contacts WAY more than "thousands" of an inch with a 1 degree change in temperature. All of these tools and "advice" are overkill.
Wood expands across the grain but it does not become longer
I loved this video. I'm just now getting into woodworking and starting my first project. Been loving the content and especially as a former quality engineer this just seemed geared for me. I spent $200 on Taylors Toolworks from your recs and could not be more excited.
Great video. Very useful info!! Woodpeckers always has a draw for me but I still haven’t pulled the trigger for all the reasons you mentioned.
Thanks. You said what I have always felt too !
Excellent content. I'm a beginner kind of (it's been about 15 years since I did any real woodworking = I just retired so now I've finally got time and I'm building a new house with a woodworking shop) so I'll be looking for practical tools to get restarted. Love, love, love your explanations of each tool and it's accuracy. I'm a big believer in ROI, and like to buy things that will help make this hobby a bit less of a drain on my pocket book. I'll be teaching my grandkids (7 with one on the way) how to work with wood, so I'm really looking forward to this next chapter in my life. As for you question regarding doing a video on the tools used most in your shop, please do, I'd love to see it.
Thanks for the nice comment, Pete. Glad you found the video helpful. Good luck with everything - it's a rewarding hobby.
I concur, Pete, this was a great video! Love the practical advice. Now, I'm off to buy some machinist squares and rules! 🙂
I am so pleased that you have taken Woodpeckers tools to task. THEY HAD TO USE Starrett tools to make their tools, so buy the tools from the company that Every manufacturer uses to make their product. It is especially frustrating that the major magazines are accepting Woodpeckers many page advertisements. Do you think they will ask you for an article that speaks the truth? It's a reason I have been considering to not renew those magazines that I have subscribed to for over twenty years. Thank you, thank you.
I agree with everything you said, but I love my delve square! It's extremely well thought out and is always with me.
My supposed top end Stanley combination was out by 3 degrees but when I put a starrett blade in it that fixed it. I have a Starrett combination in 12 and 6in and both will take up to a 72in blade. I have 24in blade that I use way more than I thought I would. Also have an engineers square and a very old Starrett T square. A tool collector friend of mine gave me the handle and I bought a blade for it at work for peanuts. The 24in blade I bought for my combinations squares is accurately flat enough to set up my jointer top.
A Starret square was the first fine tool I bought. It will last my lifetime and truly improved my work.
I'm gonna admit something. How have I not seen your channel before? I love these videos!
The video I didn't ask for and yet the one I needed the most. Thanks, Jon! Great video 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for another frank, brutal but true review of essential woodworking kit, I love it. I'm an amateur but recently purchased a small engineering square for tool tune up and a small combination square which I use constantly. Keep your content coming and I would like to see your jig clip for sure.
Good honest video. I've never understood the need to go all red on the wall LOL. The best work that I've seen are often made with cheaper but decent quality old tools. I find that Lee Valley stuff tend to be well designed and priced (some would argue otherwise on the pricing, but you get what you pay for). You can find some products cheaper or a bit more specialized, but they have a good trade off there.
5:49 for my money, the gold standard for a combination square is a Starrett set with the centering and protractor heads. Your great grandchildren will be able to use them and enjoy the same accuracy you get today.
The best part is another company mentioned in the video makes the squares for starrett
@@Lincolnstww What's your source for that claim? I just saw a video of Abom79 touring the Starret factory in Massachussets, and combination squares were among the products they were making there, alongside the micrometers and dial indicators.
thanks for sharing! Can't get enough of your shop wisdom and witty banter...too damn much fun!!!
Another great video. One recommendation though. Whatever tape measure you go with stick with it. Not every tape measure is the same as other when going longer distances. I stick with my Fastcap tapes. And my machinist square sits by the tablesaw. After making an angled cut, I reset it with my machinist square. One more thing to add. I love the Paolini tools because it's small but sturdy. And it's very specific use. Once I set a distance, I use all three (sometimes) and I know it's a known distance that I can reset the fence/cutter/bit etc to. So it's used more for reference distance than anything else. Because it's so small, I put it in my toolbag and constantly reach for it. I do use my Starret levels as a straight edge and I think it's good enough for my use case. And I keep a 48" Empire level for jointing use for the tablesaw. Again, being off a few thou is OK for that use case. But I may have to pick up those straight edges. thanks!
Great point. I verified the accuracy of a dial caliper against Starrett micrometers and then started using it to check the accuracy of rulers, tape measures and other devices in my shop. The tape on my table saw was off by about 1/10" in 12 inches. It has an incremental fence as well but I still changed the tape out. A number of tape measures were removed from the wood/metal working shop and put in a separate garage to only be used when "close is good enough" like looking for raw material or building garage shelving.
I found you because of your RUclipsrs are fake video and now I’m watching something about wood and 90 degree angles. Great editing skills!
Love my digital calipers. You’re right, it has so many uses!
Your videos are super helpful for someone just getting started. Thank you. And yes, a video on jigs would be awesome
I have one of those 6" black rulers. I find it very easy to see the lines.
I also have a Utilitas hooked rule I got from Lee Valley. I've used it a lot but I always wanted to try the Woodpeckes version for the simple reason that the WP's has 1/32" increments and the Utilitas only has 1/16". I finally got the WP version of the hooked rule and have been using it for about a month now. I'm not blown out of the water by how much better it is but I do like it a bit more.
I got the Paolini 8" rule a few weeks ago and I'm still learning how to use it well. I sort of wish I got the steel version because I can see how the aluminum version is going to get beat the heck up.
One indispensable tool in my shop is a 1-2-3 block: want 90° accuracy for the table saw, jointer fence, etc., ya cannot get any better - and they do not cost an arm an a let. Personally, it is just nice to reward oneself with Woodpecker, Infinity, Veritas, Bridge City, or Blue Spruce Tool Works tool every now and then: because you deserve it!
I have that little 3" double square and it stays in my shop apron at all times. It´s one of my most used tools.
It's been a while since your last videos. Glad to see you're still into making informative videos. Keep up the good work. I like the idea of you showing off money making jigs.
This was one of your best videos. So much content compressed into a delicious nugget. Loved the Starbucks reference. Thanks for saving me money
I don't know what motivated you to get a RUclips Channel but you are very good at what you do. KUDOS
I have the PEC 6” double square + extra 4” blade. This is my go to tool every time. Anything less than 4”, this is perfect bc of how light it is. 12” is hard to hold when marking small dimensions.
The fact that the handle is a perfect 1” width, it works extremely well with 1-2-3 blocks for setup.
May be add 1-2-3 blocks to your lists of must have. Cheap set of 2 under $20 are accurate to .0005”
Well done - lucidly described and practical. For me personally, a Starrett combination square (the 12" is my fav) is an imperative. It is the most-used tool in my shop. I rarely use machinist squares as the Starrett does everything a machinist square can do and I trust the Starrett more. And I agree on the straight edge. I've had a 36" Woodpeckers for a long time (48" would be better).