You have explained burnout so good. It is good that people are talking about burnout I think it is still not high enough in Dev and HR departments. Kudos
Let me answer in English so that other viewers understand it too. This sentence can be understood in 2 ways: "not all great engineers should become managers" or "great engineers should never become managers". I assume what you mean is the 2nd one. If that's the case, then where should engineering managers come from? I see 3 potential answers (let me know if you have other ideas): 1. managers should come from non-dev background; this used to be the case years ago, but that causes problem where engineers report to people who are not capable of running software teams - they don't understand the problems engineers deal with on daily basis, and they can't help engineers grow. I know there are engineering managers coming from e.g. agile or product background, but when I ask developers about it, most developers prefer to have manager who can code and preferably has experience in writing software 2. managers should be egineers, but not great engineers; in this case great engineers remain individual contributors, and average engineers with good social skills can become managers. This actually might work, and I know some managers who were average devs, but they always wanted to move to management, and eventually they became good managers. At the same time it means that we move people who are not great at their current jobs to another position that has potentially bigger impact and responsibilities, and that might set wrong incentives 3. there should be no managers - also possible, but from what I know most companies that tried it eventually gave up ;) So what's the best option? I guess there's not right answer here and different companies can be successful with different approach. I still prefer to turn great engineers into managers, but not all great engineers - only those who are interested in solving the organizational and people problems more than technical problems. I see a lot of value in engineers becoming directors and VPs over time, but I wouldn't force anyone to move from coding to managing. In some companies it's the only way to make a career progress and that doesn't end up well. What do you think, do you have a preferred approach?
@@NotOnlyCode I think the intention was as you stated it "great engineers should never become managers" (never is a strong word here) Not sure about other companies but in the one I am thinking of being manager means 'having more power', likely better 'job security'. Engineers have little to no clue as to what managers do in terms of people management, their actual 'power', how promoting people works, budgeting etc. So some engineers dream of becoming managers to be a part of the 'elite'. Some tech leads think their current manager or the manager supervising team they technically lead are not prioritizing their efforts so if they become managers themselves they will get more people, funding and 'power' etc. Now since there are so many engineers trying to become managers they need to decide who should be 'promoted' and then they'd choose the 'better' ones (most technical visibility etc.) and we have one great engineer less. As the person picks up managerial responsibilities (and become overloaded because their dream came true) they no longer contribute properly to design/product etc. IMO engineering manager can try and split their attention between managerial and engineering aspects without actually being overloaded with any of them. Then they can be a technical leader - the one that does not really code so for example he does not care as much how much code needs to be rewritten because he knows it is going to be good for the product. Making decisions is easier if you do not have to do the work yourself. Like you cannot expect construction worker to decide a wall he just built needs to be torn down and built 20cm to the left but his manager is able to make such decision because he is detached from that pain. Sounds horrible but, would you agree?
This deserves it's own article/video or a chat, but in essence: I agree with the pain points that you see, but not with the solution. In my opinion there are 2 issues here: bad incentives and bad management. And asking managers to code won't fix these issues. The first one is that people try to become managers for wrong reasons - as you mention, they might see it as a position of power, they might not know how manager's work looks like, but also in a lot of companies this is the only way to make more money and go up the career ladder. These incentives are created by a company, and the company can fix it. For example, if the company introduces a dual career ladder with equal pay ranges on each level, people won't move to management for money. The same can be done with a perception of power or job security - in most cases managers don't really have that much power, so if people know the reality, they will think twice before moving to management for wrong reason. And the 2nd problem is bad management - most engineers who become managers start by being bad managers, because they don't know how to manage. Everything that you describe here, that managers make wrong decisions without understanding the team, it is not because they do not contribute to the project anymore, but because they are bad managers. And they're bad managers, because nobody has ever taught them how to be a good manager. You don't need to actively code to understand what's happening in the project, just like a football coach doesn't need to be on the field with the players to make good coaching decisions. In my experience it's often the other way round - managers who are too involved in coding neglect their management responsibilities, which means that they can't shield the team from the outside pressure, they can't get the team the right resources and support from upper management, they can't get help from other teams etc. They are good at coding, so they keep coding, and they ignore their new responsibilities, hurting the whole team. In my opinion a badly needed solution is proper training for new managers, something that I see very rarely in our industry. Developers who become managers get very little support, they don't know what they should focus on and they don't know what skills they need to learn and how to do it (and some of them took management because of the wrong incentive, like more money or more power). And if these managers start writing code, they don't have time to learn how to be good managers, and the cycle continues.
3 years of therapy and I'm still burning out... 🫠 but as an immigrant with little savings I have no option to just drop the job and hope it will get better. So you just continue the grind, becoming less and less productive and more and more emotionally detached
I can relate to your situation.I'm currently in a similar situation, a web and mobile app dev working for a startup and managing multiple projects while also considering opportunities abroad for better career prospects (the salary in my country is too low) If you come across any job openings at your company that you think I'd be a good fit for, I would greatly appreciate it if you could consider referring me. Perhaps we could connect further? Do you mind if I ask for your contact details to stay in touch ? Thanks in advance for your help
You have explained burnout so good. It is good that people are talking about burnout I think it is still not high enough in Dev and HR departments. Kudos
Thanks for sharing, mate
Cześć. Ostatnio mamy w firmie takie przebłyski "stop making great engineers managers", co Ty na to?
Let me answer in English so that other viewers understand it too.
This sentence can be understood in 2 ways: "not all great engineers should become managers" or "great engineers should never become managers". I assume what you mean is the 2nd one.
If that's the case, then where should engineering managers come from? I see 3 potential answers (let me know if you have other ideas):
1. managers should come from non-dev background; this used to be the case years ago, but that causes problem where engineers report to people who are not capable of running software teams - they don't understand the problems engineers deal with on daily basis, and they can't help engineers grow. I know there are engineering managers coming from e.g. agile or product background, but when I ask developers about it, most developers prefer to have manager who can code and preferably has experience in writing software
2. managers should be egineers, but not great engineers; in this case great engineers remain individual contributors, and average engineers with good social skills can become managers. This actually might work, and I know some managers who were average devs, but they always wanted to move to management, and eventually they became good managers. At the same time it means that we move people who are not great at their current jobs to another position that has potentially bigger impact and responsibilities, and that might set wrong incentives
3. there should be no managers - also possible, but from what I know most companies that tried it eventually gave up ;)
So what's the best option? I guess there's not right answer here and different companies can be successful with different approach. I still prefer to turn great engineers into managers, but not all great engineers - only those who are interested in solving the organizational and people problems more than technical problems. I see a lot of value in engineers becoming directors and VPs over time, but I wouldn't force anyone to move from coding to managing. In some companies it's the only way to make a career progress and that doesn't end up well.
What do you think, do you have a preferred approach?
@@NotOnlyCode I think the intention was as you stated it "great engineers should never become managers" (never is a strong word here)
Not sure about other companies but in the one I am thinking of being manager means 'having more power', likely better 'job security'. Engineers have little to no clue as to what managers do in terms of people management, their actual 'power', how promoting people works, budgeting etc. So some engineers dream of becoming managers to be a part of the 'elite'. Some tech leads think their current manager or the manager supervising team they technically lead are not prioritizing their efforts so if they become managers themselves they will get more people, funding and 'power' etc. Now since there are so many engineers trying to become managers they need to decide who should be 'promoted' and then they'd choose the 'better' ones (most technical visibility etc.) and we have one great engineer less. As the person picks up managerial responsibilities (and become overloaded because their dream came true) they no longer contribute properly to design/product etc.
IMO engineering manager can try and split their attention between managerial and engineering aspects without actually being overloaded with any of them. Then they can be a technical leader - the one that does not really code so for example he does not care as much how much code needs to be rewritten because he knows it is going to be good for the product. Making decisions is easier if you do not have to do the work yourself. Like you cannot expect construction worker to decide a wall he just built needs to be torn down and built 20cm to the left but his manager is able to make such decision because he is detached from that pain.
Sounds horrible but, would you agree?
This deserves it's own article/video or a chat, but in essence: I agree with the pain points that you see, but not with the solution. In my opinion there are 2 issues here: bad incentives and bad management. And asking managers to code won't fix these issues.
The first one is that people try to become managers for wrong reasons - as you mention, they might see it as a position of power, they might not know how manager's work looks like, but also in a lot of companies this is the only way to make more money and go up the career ladder. These incentives are created by a company, and the company can fix it. For example, if the company introduces a dual career ladder with equal pay ranges on each level, people won't move to management for money. The same can be done with a perception of power or job security - in most cases managers don't really have that much power, so if people know the reality, they will think twice before moving to management for wrong reason.
And the 2nd problem is bad management - most engineers who become managers start by being bad managers, because they don't know how to manage. Everything that you describe here, that managers make wrong decisions without understanding the team, it is not because they do not contribute to the project anymore, but because they are bad managers. And they're bad managers, because nobody has ever taught them how to be a good manager.
You don't need to actively code to understand what's happening in the project, just like a football coach doesn't need to be on the field with the players to make good coaching decisions. In my experience it's often the other way round - managers who are too involved in coding neglect their management responsibilities, which means that they can't shield the team from the outside pressure, they can't get the team the right resources and support from upper management, they can't get help from other teams etc. They are good at coding, so they keep coding, and they ignore their new responsibilities, hurting the whole team.
In my opinion a badly needed solution is proper training for new managers, something that I see very rarely in our industry. Developers who become managers get very little support, they don't know what they should focus on and they don't know what skills they need to learn and how to do it (and some of them took management because of the wrong incentive, like more money or more power). And if these managers start writing code, they don't have time to learn how to be good managers, and the cycle continues.
@@NotOnlyCode Least I did is get you another good topic for a video ;)
3 years of therapy and I'm still burning out... 🫠 but as an immigrant with little savings I have no option to just drop the job and hope it will get better. So you just continue the grind, becoming less and less productive and more and more emotionally detached
I can relate to your situation.I'm currently in a similar situation, a web and mobile app dev working for a startup and managing multiple projects while also considering opportunities abroad for better career prospects (the salary in my country is too low)
If you come across any job openings at your company that you think I'd be a good fit for, I would greatly appreciate it if you could consider referring me.
Perhaps we could connect further? Do you mind if I ask for your contact details to stay in touch ?
Thanks in advance for your help
@@TOn-fx2gr the programmer's salary in my country isn't great either, and there's a big tax on top...