My favorite part of that first game's day 1 is that the Goblin did the same thing that the Boomdandy did when this was played by NRB in the most recent episode. Out yourself to let the demon find you.
@@KyrieFortune Boomdandy, talking to the goblin: "Hey, I'm the goblin, are you evil?" The actual goblin: *has a meltdown because someone claimed to be him*
Watching this almost 4 months later, it's crazy how much friends I've made in this community and all the amazing games I've played with everyone. Here's to many more crazy streams, banger games, and playing with many more amazing people.
Update: It's been a little more than an entire year after this video and the stream, and so much has happened: -Met the love of my life, Kazie, because of Clocktower -The girlfriend inspired me to start my journey with HRT (MTF) -I got invited onto the TPI streams -Two Clocktower cons -Met so many amazing people of the Clocktower world both online and irl -Invited to so many different communities and so many different and wonderful Clocktower communities popped up -Created my own Furry Clocktower community that is thriving -Started seriously streaming on Twitch again because of Clocktower So yeah, can't wait to see what the future holds, and maybe 1 day I'll run this game exactly the same grim setup to see if History repeats itself x3
Yeah. There were a lot of novice players. Any sane group will put someone on the block with 6 even if they're "a bad kill." You can still look for a better kill and just put 7 on them.
Poppygrower has way to many interactions that even when killed it doesn't work. Poppygrower in a Vortox game (You do not have a downside period) Poppygrower changed by Pithag (Poppygrower does not exist so it does not tell evil) Poppygrower changed by Farmer (See above) Poppygrower poisoned by anyone then killed (You power does not function right so no one is told) Poppygrower is Drunk by anyone then killed (See above) Thats 5 super common interactions that just turn the Poppygrower into a BEAST tier role. It is without a dispute the strongest townsfolk in the game bar none. Sage is great, Ravenkeeper is great but they can be disrupted with poison or drunkeness but the Poppergrower works before the game starts and has 5 ways for it to not proc its reveal clause. Thats insanely powerful.
A lot of the Poppygrower issues could be fixed if the role was written as “While you live, minions and demons do not know each other.” That way the information given on PG’s death is not part of PG’s ability (it is just delayed starting info), so it is unaffected by drunkenness/poison/Vortox.
@@q-tuber7034 That wording doesn't work because the mechanic for learning fellow evils is only night one and not having it explicitly written in the ability means the evil team would never learn eachother . And if you say it implies that would happen, that it would mean as soon as the Poppy Grower is poisoned the evil team would immediately learn their team which is not the intended mechanic. I think a good change would be to change the wording at the end of the text. "Minions and Demons do not know each other. If you are dead, they learn who each other are (once)." This makes it so, unless the poppygrower is permanently poisoned, the information will eventually be shared after they die as it just checks if they dead rather than triggering on death. You might need a clause along the lines of "Even if dead" somewhere but couldn't think of an easy to read version of that.
Agreed. I dislike poppygrower games for this exact reason. When it works in the manner that I think is the proper intended way, it is great. But slap it down in a vortox game and it is just idiotic. Especially when you have an evil poppy grower in a vortex game. They ONLY hurt the evil team. There was nothing that player could do to be helpful to the evil team. All they could do was not die but they still are preventing them from knowing who each other are. That needs to be changed.
@@deathgodfire Treating PG as a role that defers “normally night one” starting info to a later night isn’t a problem, I think. The meaning would be clear. (Like the way the meaning of the Fool and Assassin abilities is clear even though the phrasing is a logical contradiction, and the way it is understood that a Fang Gu can only jump once in a game.) But you are right that my proposed phrasing would allow the evil team to learn who they are if the PG is drunk/poisoned, and that’s a problem. This might work: “While you live (even if you are drunk or poisoned), minions and demons do not know each other.”
@@q-tuber7034 Drunk and Poison is stated to be that they make it so that the player cannot have an effect on the game. But a drunk or poisoned poppygrower continues to have an effect on the game. So its the only one that can do that.
Spoilers: Watching Jojo not vote there hurt so much lol. And then Ryan just started assuming he was poisoned when he got a cold on of it had to do with the player being evil because they were so convinced of it by then xD
Could the Amnesiac be used as a Vortox check? For example, Marks ability has him choose people, if he asked something along the lines of "is my ability a passive one" in a Vortox game he'd have to get some sort of warm where otherwise he'd get cold, cause choosing people isn't a passive ability. Is any of my thinking correct?
@@WolfOfLegend Am I right in thinking that it would never give a false negative on a vortox (assuming the player isn't the drunk, or philo drunked) since a poisoned or sailor drunk amne must still receive incorrect information in a vortox world?
That is exactly what we're saying. It's how it's pronounced over here. It's a different name to the biblical 'Malachai', as it's a surname as opposed to a first name. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower I figured that. I was assuming it was supposed to sound like Mal-ah-kee, but it just made me laugh because I kept hearing the R sound in the middle syllable.
I think it was this video, an hour in, when I actually looked at the Balloonist token as a hot air balloon and not some unrelated beach ball... previously I had thought it was in reference to someone making balloon animals or something lol.
With the Goblin ability, it reads that to trigger the win condition, the player must claim to be the Goblin when nominated. Which is fine if someone says "I'm the goblin" (even if they've been claiming other things in the day). But if someone says "I'm the goblin. Well, I'm the alchemist goblin." when nominated then it seems to me they've just nullified their claim of being goblin. They're claiming to have the goblin's ability, but not actually be the goblin. They're claiming to be the alchemist. It doesn't seem to me that should register as a valid goblin claim for the goblin ability (whatever character the nominated player actually is, and whether or not they're lying about actually having the goblin ability!).
It doesn't require you to be mad about being the goblin, just to claim it. If it were madness I'd agree with you. But honestly it doesn't really matter what it is that the ability requires you to claim, it could say "the player must say the word antidisestablishmentarianism when nominated", all that matters is that everyone knows you very intentionally said antidisestablishmentarianism, and are thus threatening town that "if you execute me, my team wins", because there's absolutely no other reason to say it.
One way you could have made this game even more glorious is making the damsel an Alchemist when saved. That way, there would be a 3-way alchemist counterclaim lol
I often find myself doing this when Amnesiac shows up: Random idea for an Amnesiac ability - "Every night, pick a player. The power of the role that player believes himself to have functions correctly for that player until the next night."
Is it ever correct to nominate as evil in final 3 with only 1 good? I've seen a lot of clocktower at this point and i've never thought it was a good play. The only situation I can think of is that you're the demon who is essentially soft confirmed, but even then the better play would be to ask the town to nominate first
@@Katz0801 end games are always tricky. you oftentimes will see a meta emerge where the player who looks the most evil is the most miniony. I can see the logic around trying to sell yourself as good to therefore look more demon-y. But you should never nominate your demon to make the sell. And the same is true as the demon but in reverse. It is verrry risky to nominate your minion if they look evil as it gives town the opportunity to vote twice and read vote patterns.
Nice video and the official app I'm thinking of using it for my community, and our games in the near future! Do all the players have to use the app, or is it web based ? We have mobile users, and they don't have PC's etc
It runs in a browser (or on a desktop), but it isn't optimised for mobile yet. You might have some resolution issues on smaller mobile devices. You only need one subscribed player to use it, but it would require all players to be on it for them to receive their tokens. However, if you're happy to just show each player what character they are, you could totally use it in place of a real grimoire just for keeping track of stuff.
also i had this game on in the background whilst working, it started off as vortox, i wasn't paying attention to the tokens so i thought it was a vortox for the first hour and kept looking at it thinking why are they getting good info?! 😂😂
It is irrelevant if the player is poisoned, drunk, or sob er. The misinformation is a part of the Vortox's ability, not any other character. If the poisoner poisoned the Vortox, then that would negate the Vortox's ability and Townsfolk would get correct info. - Ben
Ah right, I see what you mean. If you're familiar enough with the night order and why it is the way it is, you can mix it up a bit without breaking the game, which is a good thing because it means players can't meta what characters are being woken up by tracking the amount of time between them being woken up and the night phase ending. In this instance, I knew the BH would be getting false info, because we had a Vortox in play, so I could confidently wake them up at any time and know to give them false info. Having said all of that, I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you're experienced enough with the night order to get away with it, as it can and will wreck the game if you get it wrong. - Ben
I think this would have been a time if I were playing and evil, I'd have an honest belief to give little moster to a towns folk. Town is convinced it's 50/50
One way to play it would be to have Aggie exclaim, "Guys! Guys! I was woken in the night and told I am the demon! I think they passed Li'l Monsta to me!" This would be how a) a good player would react to being given custody of Li'l Monsta, and b) be a great bluff for a minion _who doesn't have Li'l Monsta_ to make on the last day, because getting themselves executed would be a win.
Idea for an amne ability: Each night get a task, if you completed that task today you cannot die that night. (Tasks would be something like: You must only whisper with/respond to [insert name here] or You must convince at least one player to say [insert word here]. I think it's crazy enough to be viable with the correct tasks with possible way to gather info like with the task [whisper with an outsider]. Definitely one I think I'll be using, but I don't mind others taking the idea. Thoughts?
Just wanted to ask - why would the evil team learn the wrong info when the Poppygrower dies in a Vortox game? They're not TF and being introduced to each other is a mechanic, not part of an ability? Unless I've misunderstood? Would it be because learning who each other are is considered PG info so is false in a Vortox game?
That’s exactly right (the last sentence), and it’s not really in the spirit of the character. As I commented elsewhere: A lot of the Poppygrower issues could be fixed if the role was written as “While you live, minions and demons do not know each other.” That way the information given on PG’s death is not part of PG’s ability, it is just delayed starting info, so it is unaffected by drunkenness/poison/Vortox.
Why wouldn't you just come out as the mutant on this script? You're good vortox food, and you only sabotage the good team if you don't. Also, you won't get Fang Gu jumped as you do in SnV. (haven't watched the full video yet, so maybe I will look stupid)
As the Mutant in this video, I can answer in one word: Godfather. You possibly give evil another night kill, you waste town an execution as per normal, and if it's a Legion game, you've just offed one of the very few good players.
Hot Potato Amne: All players have the snake charmers ability (except the demon) Snake charmers are not poisoned when swapped snake charmers proc in clockwise order at end of night
I'm kindddd of obsessed with this channel and NRB at the moment, and I'm 100% OK with it. Also poisoning should negate any negative effects from drunkenness ... kind of like a double negative 🤣
Maybe you should watch more and you will find out why that suggestion would have negative consequences (it was like that in a previous edition, or at least it was tested as such)
The bounty hunter asked for their information out of night order, any information given by the storyteller in that situation must be viewed as out of game fun rather than in game facts. Especially because Ben gave them the actual information later.
@@AlexH274 The Bounty Hunter requested a chat themselves, then asked for a specific piece of information. Any information that the story teller gives them cannot be taken seriously until the story teller wakes them. Players cannot expect to wake themselves whenever they want and obtain correct information.
lol when someone in town said “hey, imagine how many reminder tokens are on JoJo right now”
when liam said "hey ben I'm the mutant" i think it would have been really funny if ben had said "that's very cool liam" and did nothing lmao
My favorite part of that first game's day 1 is that the Goblin did the same thing that the Boomdandy did when this was played by NRB in the most recent episode. Out yourself to let the demon find you.
"Are you evil?"
"What?"
"Ok, bye"
@@KyrieFortune "F it. I'm the goblin. Are you the demon?" "Huh?" "Okay. Bye"
@@KyrieFortune Boomdandy, talking to the goblin: "Hey, I'm the goblin, are you evil?"
The actual goblin: *has a meltdown because someone claimed to be him*
Watching this almost 4 months later, it's crazy how much friends I've made in this community and all the amazing games I've played with everyone. Here's to many more crazy streams, banger games, and playing with many more amazing people.
Update: It's been a little more than an entire year after this video and the stream, and so much has happened:
-Met the love of my life, Kazie, because of Clocktower
-The girlfriend inspired me to start my journey with HRT (MTF)
-I got invited onto the TPI streams
-Two Clocktower cons
-Met so many amazing people of the Clocktower world both online and irl
-Invited to so many different communities and so many different and wonderful Clocktower communities popped up
-Created my own Furry Clocktower community that is thriving
-Started seriously streaming on Twitch again because of Clocktower
So yeah, can't wait to see what the future holds, and maybe 1 day I'll run this game exactly the same grim setup to see if History repeats itself x3
That is the first night one vortex win I’ve seen. Awesome
Yeah. There were a lot of novice players. Any sane group will put someone on the block with 6 even if they're "a bad kill." You can still look for a better kill and just put 7 on them.
Sitting in a Chili’s, trying not to fall out of my booth, watching Ben do everything to make this ability fire off
Poppygrower has way to many interactions that even when killed it doesn't work.
Poppygrower in a Vortox game (You do not have a downside period)
Poppygrower changed by Pithag (Poppygrower does not exist so it does not tell evil)
Poppygrower changed by Farmer (See above)
Poppygrower poisoned by anyone then killed (You power does not function right so no one is told)
Poppygrower is Drunk by anyone then killed (See above)
Thats 5 super common interactions that just turn the Poppygrower into a BEAST tier role. It is without a dispute the strongest townsfolk in the game bar none. Sage is great, Ravenkeeper is great but they can be disrupted with poison or drunkeness but the Poppergrower works before the game starts and has 5 ways for it to not proc its reveal clause. Thats insanely powerful.
A lot of the Poppygrower issues could be fixed if the role was written as “While you live, minions and demons do not know each other.” That way the information given on PG’s death is not part of PG’s ability (it is just delayed starting info), so it is unaffected by drunkenness/poison/Vortox.
@@q-tuber7034 That wording doesn't work because the mechanic for learning fellow evils is only night one and not having it explicitly written in the ability means the evil team would never learn eachother .
And if you say it implies that would happen, that it would mean as soon as the Poppy Grower is poisoned the evil team would immediately learn their team which is not the intended mechanic.
I think a good change would be to change the wording at the end of the text.
"Minions and Demons do not know each other. If you are dead, they learn who each other are (once)."
This makes it so, unless the poppygrower is permanently poisoned, the information will eventually be shared after they die as it just checks if they dead rather than triggering on death.
You might need a clause along the lines of "Even if dead" somewhere but couldn't think of an easy to read version of that.
Agreed. I dislike poppygrower games for this exact reason. When it works in the manner that I think is the proper intended way, it is great.
But slap it down in a vortox game and it is just idiotic. Especially when you have an evil poppy grower in a vortex game. They ONLY hurt the evil team. There was nothing that player could do to be helpful to the evil team. All they could do was not die but they still are preventing them from knowing who each other are.
That needs to be changed.
@@deathgodfire Treating PG as a role that defers “normally night one” starting info to a later night isn’t a problem, I think. The meaning would be clear. (Like the way the meaning of the Fool and Assassin abilities is clear even though the phrasing is a logical contradiction, and the way it is understood that a Fang Gu can only jump once in a game.) But you are right that my proposed phrasing would allow the evil team to learn who they are if the PG is drunk/poisoned, and that’s a problem. This might work: “While you live (even if you are drunk or poisoned), minions and demons do not know each other.”
@@q-tuber7034 Drunk and Poison is stated to be that they make it so that the player cannot have an effect on the game. But a drunk or poisoned poppygrower continues to have an effect on the game. So its the only one that can do that.
Spoilers:
Watching Jojo not vote there hurt so much lol. And then Ryan just started assuming he was poisoned when he got a cold on of it had to do with the player being evil because they were so convinced of it by then xD
Could the Amnesiac be used as a Vortox check? For example, Marks ability has him choose people, if he asked something along the lines of "is my ability a passive one" in a Vortox game he'd have to get some sort of warm where otherwise he'd get cold, cause choosing people isn't a passive ability. Is any of my thinking correct?
Correct, or the amne's drunk/poisoned and the ST wants to make it look like a vortox, in which case they can also give warm in that situation
@@WolfOfLegend
Am I right in thinking that it would never give a false negative on a vortox (assuming the player isn't the drunk, or philo drunked) since a poisoned or sailor drunk amne must still receive incorrect information in a vortox world?
@@WolfOfLegend i love the amnesiac even more now
Oh my god, that first game.
Vortox losses in day one are rough just because of all the lost setup time, IMO
Game one seemed so fun. I'm like grieving over that hard vortox check
I know! I wanted to see how the evil poppy grower/ Vortox poppy grower would work out. Fun shenanigans all around that would have been.
Am I the only American listening to this and everytime they say Malaki’s name, I hear the word Malarkey? It makes me chuckle everytime.
That is exactly what we're saying. It's how it's pronounced over here. It's a different name to the biblical 'Malachai', as it's a surname as opposed to a first name. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower I figured that. I was assuming it was supposed to sound like Mal-ah-kee, but it just made me laugh because I kept hearing the R sound in the middle syllable.
I think it was this video, an hour in, when I actually looked at the Balloonist token as a hot air balloon and not some unrelated beach ball... previously I had thought it was in reference to someone making balloon animals or something lol.
Oh Patrick, why didn’t you vote when you were nominated. It would of been negative one vote!
With the Goblin ability, it reads that to trigger the win condition, the player must claim to be the Goblin when nominated. Which is fine if someone says "I'm the goblin" (even if they've been claiming other things in the day).
But if someone says "I'm the goblin. Well, I'm the alchemist goblin." when nominated then it seems to me they've just nullified their claim of being goblin. They're claiming to have the goblin's ability, but not actually be the goblin. They're claiming to be the alchemist. It doesn't seem to me that should register as a valid goblin claim for the goblin ability (whatever character the nominated player actually is, and whether or not they're lying about actually having the goblin ability!).
It doesn't require you to be mad about being the goblin, just to claim it. If it were madness I'd agree with you.
But honestly it doesn't really matter what it is that the ability requires you to claim, it could say "the player must say the word antidisestablishmentarianism when nominated", all that matters is that everyone knows you very intentionally said antidisestablishmentarianism, and are thus threatening town that "if you execute me, my team wins", because there's absolutely no other reason to say it.
This is why I always repeat it very clearly, so that all players know that "x has claimed to be the Goblin".
@@BloodontheClocktower A very good plan, and a habit I picked up with my group as well.
One way you could have made this game even more glorious is making the damsel an Alchemist when saved. That way, there would be a 3-way alchemist counterclaim lol
45:24 Game 2
1:12:35 Ben’s inner Dungeon Master goes wild
I often find myself doing this when Amnesiac shows up: Random idea for an Amnesiac ability - "Every night, pick a player. The power of the role that player believes himself to have functions correctly for that player until the next night."
Is it ever correct to nominate as evil in final 3 with only 1 good? I've seen a lot of clocktower at this point and i've never thought it was a good play. The only situation I can think of is that you're the demon who is essentially soft confirmed, but even then the better play would be to ask the town to nominate first
Yeah I agree. Cause I think JoJo would have nominated Sam. It sounded that way. I don’t really understand why Sam nominated
@@Katz0801 end games are always tricky. you oftentimes will see a meta emerge where the player who looks the most evil is the most miniony. I can see the logic around trying to sell yourself as good to therefore look more demon-y. But you should never nominate your demon to make the sell. And the same is true as the demon but in reverse. It is verrry risky to nominate your minion if they look evil as it gives town the opportunity to vote twice and read vote patterns.
Two hour video, I definitely was surprised by that ending!
The poisoned amnesiac could have resulted in a plus 1 vote instead of minus 1
Nice video and the official app I'm thinking of using it for my community, and our games in the near future! Do all the players have to use the app, or is it web based ? We have mobile users, and they don't have PC's etc
It runs in a browser (or on a desktop), but it isn't optimised for mobile yet. You might have some resolution issues on smaller mobile devices. You only need one subscribed player to use it, but it would require all players to be on it for them to receive their tokens. However, if you're happy to just show each player what character they are, you could totally use it in place of a real grimoire just for keeping track of stuff.
How does a Poppy Grower and a Lil' Monsta work together?
Yes, they get woken up 1 at a time until someone agrees to be the babysitter
in vortox if a poisoner poisoned someone would they get good info? or does vortox affect the poisoner too?
also i had this game on in the background whilst working, it started off as vortox, i wasn't paying attention to the tokens so i thought it was a vortox for the first hour and kept looking at it thinking why are they getting good info?! 😂😂
It is irrelevant if the player is poisoned, drunk, or sob er. The misinformation is a part of the Vortox's ability, not any other character. If the poisoner poisoned the Vortox, then that would negate the Vortox's ability and Townsfolk would get correct info. - Ben
why did ben give the BH their ping first in the night order and then give them a second one when they would normally get their ping?
It's been ages since this game. Any chance you can timestamp it so I can check it out and answer? - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower first at 8:10 then at 19:17
Ah right, I see what you mean. If you're familiar enough with the night order and why it is the way it is, you can mix it up a bit without breaking the game, which is a good thing because it means players can't meta what characters are being woken up by tracking the amount of time between them being woken up and the night phase ending.
In this instance, I knew the BH would be getting false info, because we had a Vortox in play, so I could confidently wake them up at any time and know to give them false info.
Having said all of that, I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you're experienced enough with the night order to get away with it, as it can and will wreck the game if you get it wrong.
- Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower I suppose my real question would be "Why were they given 2 names in one night?"
I think this would have been a time if I were playing and evil, I'd have an honest belief to give little moster to a towns folk. Town is convinced it's 50/50
One way to play it would be to have Aggie exclaim, "Guys! Guys! I was woken in the night and told I am the demon! I think they passed Li'l Monsta to me!"
This would be how a) a good player would react to being given custody of Li'l Monsta, and b) be a great bluff for a minion _who doesn't have Li'l Monsta_ to make on the last day, because getting themselves executed would be a win.
Indeed, most good things in life are thick rather than thin
Idea for an amne ability: Each night get a task, if you completed that task today you cannot die that night.
(Tasks would be something like: You must only whisper with/respond to [insert name here] or You must convince at least one player to say [insert word here].
I think it's crazy enough to be viable with the correct tasks with possible way to gather info like with the task [whisper with an outsider]. Definitely one I think I'll be using, but I don't mind others taking the idea.
Thoughts?
Mark looks so much like the FM creator Dr Benjy it's a little unsettling
Just wanted to ask - why would the evil team learn the wrong info when the Poppygrower dies in a Vortox game? They're not TF and being introduced to each other is a mechanic, not part of an ability? Unless I've misunderstood?
Would it be because learning who each other are is considered PG info so is false in a Vortox game?
That’s exactly right (the last sentence), and it’s not really in the spirit of the character. As I commented elsewhere: A lot of the Poppygrower issues could be fixed if the role was written as “While you live, minions and demons do not know each other.” That way the information given on PG’s death is not part of PG’s ability, it is just delayed starting info, so it is unaffected by drunkenness/poison/Vortox.
@Q-tuber Thanks for that! I do sometimes get lost with how a PG whose ability has been corrupted affects the game, but it's still always fun to watch!
Poppygrower is still townsfolk, just an evil townsfolk
absolutely amazing
I've never watched a re-rack before!
Where can you get a Night Order for this script?
Why wouldn't you just come out as the mutant on this script? You're good vortox food, and you only sabotage the good team if you don't. Also, you won't get Fang Gu jumped as you do in SnV. (haven't watched the full video yet, so maybe I will look stupid)
As the Mutant in this video, I can answer in one word:
Godfather.
You possibly give evil another night kill, you waste town an execution as per normal, and if it's a Legion game, you've just offed one of the very few good players.
A really crazy game of among us :D
Ben, because of your accent, I keep hearing you say Malaki's name as "Malarkey" and it really messes with my head.
That's how it's pronounced over here. There's Malachai (mal-uk-eye) and Malaki (ma-lar-key). - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Oh, yea dont get me wrong. You’re not doing anything wrong. It’s just a funny thing for my brain that made me laugh.
I'd love to see Jojo feature more, such a lovely amazing person!!❣
How many tokens does Jojo have?!
Super pumped!
Do you guys plan to localize the game in French by any chance?
Hot Potato Amne:
All players have the snake charmers ability (except the demon)
Snake charmers are not poisoned when swapped
snake charmers proc in clockwise order at end of night
I'm kindddd of obsessed with this channel and NRB at the moment, and I'm 100% OK with it.
Also poisoning should negate any negative effects from drunkenness ... kind of like a double negative 🤣
Maybe you should watch more and you will find out why that suggestion would have negative consequences (it was like that in a previous edition, or at least it was tested as such)
I can't imagine a scenario where you'd kill a good player on the first night. I guess it's possible, but I'd only start the killing on the first day.
@Fals Namae Actually, true. Acrobat could cause death Night 1. Nobody dies Night 0 for sure, as there's no such thing.
I don’t agree with how bounty hunter was run night 1. If Ekin was evil, Pat would have been too.
The bounty hunter asked for their information out of night order, any information given by the storyteller in that situation must be viewed as out of game fun rather than in game facts. Especially because Ben gave them the actual information later.
@@ellysemilton1309 you think this is the Bounty Hunters' fault? It's the ST's job to run the night in the correct order, not the players'.
@@AlexH274 The Bounty Hunter requested a chat themselves, then asked for a specific piece of information. Any information that the story teller gives them cannot be taken seriously until the story teller wakes them. Players cannot expect to wake themselves whenever they want and obtain correct information.