It's always nice to watch these even being as a player in the game, seeing the thought process of the Storyteller during the night and seeing all the conversations you aren't apart of is so fascinating. Also..........nah I don't want to spoil but..... this one player.......heck you xD
Man, it's frustrating to see the good team solve the game halfway through and still lose at the end. Edd did an amazing job at getting everyone to second guess themselves, well played.
That is without a doubt the best politician performance I've ever seen. An Evil team floundering around and being exposed on day 3 somehow making a come back under the relentless efforts of 1 man fighting a battle he didn't even need to fight. he could have taken the easy road and gotten an easy win, but he single handedly carried the evil team out of the mud and into the sun. Politician Edd for president!
Timestamps for some of the fun moments in this game (mostly for myself since this is months later lol) Jacqui and Viva la Sam convo 59:17 Edd's miracle save 1:07:29 Mal's day 5 info 1:30:50 Sad Jacqui 1:31:45 "It's over suckers" 1:39:13
Sam the Priestess actually pinned the evil players down towards the end of the game but unfortunately convincing the town was too dificult LOL, especially with a politician spreading false info.
I just wanna say, yall do such a great job with these videos, I adore them, I adore the playes, and I adore you Ben. Keep up the phenominalllllllllllllll work ♥
I never liked warewolf or games of mass social deduction. THIS is a whole other thing though! I am not going to get to play this ever, I dont even KNOW enough people that would get together to play it...but, I watched this, after skipping over it MANY times, on the No Rolls Barred channel and it is fast becoming a favorite game for me...even if just to watch. AMAZING job making a game so good it makes fans of people that actively dont like the genre!
I would so love to do this, but sadly it would then be obvious to the players, in game 2, whether or not the new character is in play, given that they'd know we were running one with it in and one with it as a bluff. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Maybe the entire day be dedicated to the new role? Having all 3 games be in some combination of it being a bluff, not-in-play, or in-play, all 3 games in-play, mixing it up, I think would be a better solution for all. More chances for people to see the interaction of the role throughout a 6 hour stream period, and we the players get more opportunities to play in a game with the new role since people can have conflicting schedules and time zones trying to make the last game impossible to some. Just a thought Ben
I'd also love to do this, but we have to schedule the release for a time when it can be released simultaneously worldwide. We've literally added that 3rd game (at midnight in the UK) so that it coincides with the start of Friday morning in China. Business is boring and no fun :( - Ben
Is there ever going to be a booster pack to buy for those of us who weren't lucky enough to get the kickstarter physical rewards and these new experimental roles?
According to the back of the manual, they are planning on releasing three expansion scripts, which will naturally contain some of the experimental roles, and then a grab-bag of a bunch of characters that do not have an official home script.
How can blue ever win when so many are ready to defect to the evil team or at least protect revealed Mezepheles? They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by constantly lying to each other.
What i should learn from your videos: - How to run high priestess - How to solve games of botc What i do learn: - How to cover up my messed up storytelling
16:40 I am pretty sure somewhere among the comments. Notice in the chat: Edd to Sam: So as I sai, I'm HP and got you, chat? Rather sus since Sam is himself the HP (high priestess).
There are definitely other reasons to show evil to a High Priestess. A Vortox or being sat near the Nodachi, poison, any of these with evil having a powerful bluff or the spy knowing the High Priestess is in play, maybe the spy registering as a powerful town or forcing the spy/widow to have to pick a powerful town role? Already having shown the good player's role that a demon or minion has claimed, thus breaking their bluff.
I don't think Spy could register as a powerful town to mess with HP, since they learn who is the player ST believes you should talk to, not who is a character with useful info, of course these will overlap, but they're not the same thing and Spy can''t really misregister for that imo, but I agree with most of the examples you said
Second that a Spy isn't going to be "registering as a useful player to talk to" but they might be important to talk to if ST thinks they might intuit that it's a Spy or if there's a Virgin or similar in game that might "confirm" the Spy, it gives HP a chance to maybe wonder why they saw the person that soon after got confirmed. Also keep in mind Vortox will not translate to something like "learn the player the ST thinks you should talk to the least", it's more like a Mathematician in a Vortox game. They can learn anyone except the most useful player. Could be second most. Could be someone random. There's no particular reason Vortox would lead to them learning an evil. No Dashii is even less a reason than Vortox because it makes the info arbitrary. You could treat a HP next to them as normal and tell truths the entire game. You probably shouldn't, but the point stands that it's not a compelling reason to show an evil player.
@kyleb8117 not so much that they learn who they should talk to the least with Vortoxx or No Dashi, more that they might learn little talking to evils, where otherwise the High Priestess might be highly valuable.
@@RoderickEtheria Learning to talk to an evil could be technically *too* valuable since you're potentially making an evil be caught out in their bluff at the start of the game, and there's only 2-4 of them out of the entire group (ignoring swappers). Even if you send them to the Demon, you can't guarantee that the Demon will have a story for why they were picked on the first day depending on what of the 3 bluffs (or otherwise) they're planning to go with. Chances are pretty good a Demon will want a character that wants to fly under the radar and calling attention to them right off might be dangerous for evil team.
@kyleb8117 All the evil have to suggest is that there is poisoning or drunking in the game. And who's targeting only first day? And sending them to inquire from evil is generally a negative for the High Priestess, because now the evil has their eyes on them.
I dont know if we can do it here, or is there a place to "gossip". But where do/can we discuss cool ideas and concepts. Also I have just recently been introduce to this through NRB
@BloodontheClocktower I really do appreciate it Mr. BEN!!!! I've starting watching your videos, this game is bad ass. Keep up the great work! Can't wait for season 2 with NRB
This ended up a much better game, and I almost feel like that was the point behind the decisions actually made, but surely, if one's goal is only to win, the best play for a hidden politician who uncovered a mezepheles is to ask for the word, become evil, find out who else is on the team, and to publicly sell it out to the town? Short game, but an almost guaranteed victory for a politician.
Perhaps. But for some players, their only goal is to have fun, and thank God those kinds of players exist because it enables the extremely mechanics-driven players to enjoy long and interesting games like this one. - Ben
Question about the High Priestess. Is it what is best for the good team or best for the High Priestess? So for example where evil are winning clearly and there is an unused Mezepheles, would you give the Mezepheles in order to make it more likely that they will be given the word to swap teams?
Given that they are a townsfolk, generally it should be one and the same, but drunkenness and alignment should affect that. One thing I'm curious is if Vortox affects it since it's "learn who the Storyteller believes you should talk to most" so would that be "learn who the storyteller believes you should talk to least?" which in itself would be good info like "why am I being pointed to a snitch? They have no real info to give..."
It's a town ability, so them swapping to evil would have to help the town. (e.g. look at Snake Charmer. Sucks for them, but it helps town.) Not really sure how that'd work out but there's probably a situation. @@DasGanon Think of it like any other ability. I gave Mathematician in a response I just did elsewhere but let's look at Noble. They can't learn the truth, so they can't learn one evil. They can learn two evils, though...or three...or zero. They can learn anything but the truth. Now extrapolate that to High Priestess. They can learn anything but the most useful person. Could be least, second most useful, etc. Anyone else.
Absolutely incredible game. I really love the idea of High Priestess and it's so cool to hear from Steven on the thought behind it. You showcased it brilliantly, Ben. ...and Edd did quite the showcase of the Politician.
Most likely ignore it since it's something that would happen in the future, which would make it a guess and not a gossip. The Gossip is supposed to gossip about past or current events. Doesn't matter if it's a paradox or not.
Haven't finished watching the game yet, but arguably N2 wouldn't it have been better for Sam to maybe be told Ekin or Roxxi to work out why Roxxi died? I think that would have helped. Could also argue being told Rez and linking up the confirmation chains could have been useful as well. I suppose that's the subjectiveness of the High Priestess as a role. It depends on the STs thoughts and where they see the game going Edit: Even with the outing at the start of the day. I think being told to speak to Ekin would have been useful
does the mezepheles work on dead players? because Roxxi said the word Foresight just before the game ended. Does the Mez have to 'make' the player say it, or can they say it in casual conversation and still get turned evil?
I believe Roxxi would have turned that night, but the game was over as soon as they failed to kill Jojo, as the Leviathan win condition triggers before night phase begins.
The Spy doesn't register as a different *player*, they register as a different character. The High Priestess learns a helpful player, which is not subject to Spy misregistration. But that doesn't mean that the High Priestess can't learn the Spy's name. There are tons of valid reasons to tell the High Priestess the name of an evil player.
this was a fun game. Well run, fun script. But why in the heck did good not at least put Jojo on the block???? It's day 5 and you're gonna lose if you don't kill someone anyway and Sam made such a great case. I was screaming at my computer watching this lol
Personally, this sort of game is why I don't especially enjoy the politician role. It's a bit predictable that they usually just wind up playing as an extra evil.
The fact that they play for evil is precisely the point? It's basically a Goon who is in control of their own destiny. With the Goon, if they're still good on day 3 or 4, they're generally most likely to win if they commit to playing solidly for good. Meanwhile, the Politician is actively incentivized to play *against* their current team until the moment it becomes evident that it is impossible for them to be most responsible for a loss. I suppose I don't understand why you dislike an outsider that encourages you to play against your team.
@sethmulhall186 that's probably it. I don't pay much attention to the exact timing of character releases, but it seemed odd. In any case, certainly an interesting game
I’m curious about the statement “a mez-turned politician is terrifying”. My instincts tell me it’s a potential waste because a poli can play for evil anyway as long as there’s no Spirit of Ivory.
A Politician who is evil still has their own ability. Their ability is that if they are most responsible for their team's loss, they flip sides and win. They don't turn *evil* and win, they turn *alignments* regardless of their current alignment. If the Politician gets Mez turned and convinces the Mez to tell them who the rest of the evil team is, they can out that to the rest of town, switch teams AGAIN, and win with good. The fact that Edd chose not to turn himself is a mark of good sportsmanship, because he could have won the game on day 2 by tricking Jackie into thinking he was actually the Balloonist. An evil Politician is actually such a horrible thing for the evil team that there are jinxes to prevent it. For example, the Pit-Hag is explicitly not allowed to turn an evil player into the Politician.
Wasn’t a fan of this one. Couple of players did a lot of talking over and talking down to other players which prevented the quieter players from being heard and sharing their perspectives. I know it’s difficult with 12 players, but wish people were more respectful of other voices.
Its why they have the fable Hell's Librarian. If you know your group is likely to do this it gives you a mechanical reason to shut them all up for a moment and that lets the quieter people speak up after.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Damn, Edd made that feel like a politician showcase.
Watching how Edd plays Politician is really informative as to the spirit of that character, with how he wheels and deals and lays multiple traps.
Literally played the entire game for the evil team. Absolute insane gamer.
It's always nice to watch these even being as a player in the game, seeing the thought process of the Storyteller during the night and seeing all the conversations you aren't apart of is so fascinating. Also..........nah I don't want to spoil but..... this one player.......heck you xD
30:20
Edd is so good at this game. Like, he's a great solver and all but his commitment to playing a fun and engaging game is incredible
Man, it's frustrating to see the good team solve the game halfway through and still lose at the end. Edd did an amazing job at getting everyone to second guess themselves, well played.
Probably one of my favorite games to watch! Edd and Sam both played exceptionally well! Magically getting it off of Jojo was miraculous.
To be honest, I feel Sam fumbled. None of his conversations seemed to actually hit off.
That is without a doubt the best politician performance I've ever seen. An Evil team floundering around and being exposed on day 3 somehow making a come back under the relentless efforts of 1 man fighting a battle he didn't even need to fight. he could have taken the easy road and gotten an easy win, but he single handedly carried the evil team out of the mud and into the sun. Politician Edd for president!
Timestamps for some of the fun moments in this game (mostly for myself since this is months later lol)
Jacqui and Viva la Sam convo 59:17
Edd's miracle save 1:07:29
Mal's day 5 info 1:30:50
Sad Jacqui 1:31:45
"It's over suckers" 1:39:13
The conversation between Jacqui and Edd in Day 3 is everything I love about this game. Amazing stuff.
Sam the Priestess actually pinned the evil players down towards the end of the game but unfortunately convincing the town was too dificult LOL, especially with a politician spreading false info.
I just wanna say, yall do such a great job with these videos, I adore them, I adore the playes, and I adore you Ben. Keep up the phenominalllllllllllllll work ♥
I never liked warewolf or games of mass social deduction. THIS is a whole other thing though! I am not going to get to play this ever, I dont even KNOW enough people that would get together to play it...but, I watched this, after skipping over it MANY times, on the No Rolls Barred channel and it is fast becoming a favorite game for me...even if just to watch.
AMAZING job making a game so good it makes fans of people that actively dont like the genre!
I would love if, when you do a showcase, you gave us two games. One when the new character is in play and one as a demon bluff.
Love your videos ❤
This is an amazing idea, and I second it.
I would so love to do this, but sadly it would then be obvious to the players, in game 2, whether or not the new character is in play, given that they'd know we were running one with it in and one with it as a bluff. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower Maybe the entire day be dedicated to the new role? Having all 3 games be in some combination of it being a bluff, not-in-play, or in-play, all 3 games in-play, mixing it up, I think would be a better solution for all. More chances for people to see the interaction of the role throughout a 6 hour stream period, and we the players get more opportunities to play in a game with the new role since people can have conflicting schedules and time zones trying to make the last game impossible to some. Just a thought Ben
I'd also love to do this, but we have to schedule the release for a time when it can be released simultaneously worldwide. We've literally added that 3rd game (at midnight in the UK) so that it coincides with the start of Friday morning in China. Business is boring and no fun :( - Ben
Is there ever going to be a booster pack to buy for those of us who weren't lucky enough to get the kickstarter physical rewards and these new experimental roles?
According to the back of the manual, they are planning on releasing three expansion scripts, which will naturally contain some of the experimental roles, and then a grab-bag of a bunch of characters that do not have an official home script.
Anyone else hearing a ringing or a kettle when Ben's talking around 1hr and 11/12min mark?
Yeah, could have been the spin cycle of a washer/dryer in another room
Yep, that was my other half putting the clothes in the washing machine haha. - Ben
How can blue ever win when so many are ready to defect to the evil team or at least protect revealed Mezepheles? They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by constantly lying to each other.
What i should learn from your videos: - How to run high priestess - How to solve games of botc
What i do learn: - How to cover up my messed up storytelling
16:40 I am pretty sure somewhere among the comments. Notice in the chat:
Edd to Sam: So as I sai, I'm HP and got you, chat?
Rather sus since Sam is himself the HP (high priestess).
There are definitely other reasons to show evil to a High Priestess. A Vortox or being sat near the Nodachi, poison, any of these with evil having a powerful bluff or the spy knowing the High Priestess is in play, maybe the spy registering as a powerful town or forcing the spy/widow to have to pick a powerful town role? Already having shown the good player's role that a demon or minion has claimed, thus breaking their bluff.
I don't think Spy could register as a powerful town to mess with HP, since they learn who is the player ST believes you should talk to, not who is a character with useful info, of course these will overlap, but they're not the same thing and Spy can''t really misregister for that imo, but I agree with most of the examples you said
Second that a Spy isn't going to be "registering as a useful player to talk to" but they might be important to talk to if ST thinks they might intuit that it's a Spy or if there's a Virgin or similar in game that might "confirm" the Spy, it gives HP a chance to maybe wonder why they saw the person that soon after got confirmed.
Also keep in mind Vortox will not translate to something like "learn the player the ST thinks you should talk to the least", it's more like a Mathematician in a Vortox game. They can learn anyone except the most useful player. Could be second most. Could be someone random. There's no particular reason Vortox would lead to them learning an evil.
No Dashii is even less a reason than Vortox because it makes the info arbitrary. You could treat a HP next to them as normal and tell truths the entire game. You probably shouldn't, but the point stands that it's not a compelling reason to show an evil player.
@kyleb8117 not so much that they learn who they should talk to the least with Vortoxx or No Dashi, more that they might learn little talking to evils, where otherwise the High Priestess might be highly valuable.
@@RoderickEtheria Learning to talk to an evil could be technically *too* valuable since you're potentially making an evil be caught out in their bluff at the start of the game, and there's only 2-4 of them out of the entire group (ignoring swappers). Even if you send them to the Demon, you can't guarantee that the Demon will have a story for why they were picked on the first day depending on what of the 3 bluffs (or otherwise) they're planning to go with. Chances are pretty good a Demon will want a character that wants to fly under the radar and calling attention to them right off might be dangerous for evil team.
@kyleb8117 All the evil have to suggest is that there is poisoning or drunking in the game. And who's targeting only first day? And sending them to inquire from evil is generally a negative for the High Priestess, because now the evil has their eyes on them.
I dont know if we can do it here, or is there a place to "gossip". But where do/can we discuss cool ideas and concepts. Also I have just recently been introduce to this through NRB
There is a whole channel for it on multiple Discord servers, including the unofficial server and the official Patreon server. - Ben
@BloodontheClocktower I really do appreciate it Mr. BEN!!!! I've starting watching your videos, this game is bad ass. Keep up the great work! Can't wait for season 2 with NRB
Thanks so much! - Ben
mezepheles is my dream role, I'd love to trick someone into saying foresight.
This ended up a much better game, and I almost feel like that was the point behind the decisions actually made, but surely, if one's goal is only to win, the best play for a hidden politician who uncovered a mezepheles is to ask for the word, become evil, find out who else is on the team, and to publicly sell it out to the town? Short game, but an almost guaranteed victory for a politician.
Perhaps. But for some players, their only goal is to have fun, and thank God those kinds of players exist because it enables the extremely mechanics-driven players to enjoy long and interesting games like this one. - Ben
I wish Edd was in more games, what a legend.
Question about the High Priestess. Is it what is best for the good team or best for the High Priestess? So for example where evil are winning clearly and there is an unused Mezepheles, would you give the Mezepheles in order to make it more likely that they will be given the word to swap teams?
High priestess is a townfolk and their abilities should help town so I think ST should give the best person to help solve the game.
Personally I think they left the RAW for it vague for a reason, so that ST can do it either way.
Given that they are a townsfolk, generally it should be one and the same, but drunkenness and alignment should affect that.
One thing I'm curious is if Vortox affects it since it's "learn who the Storyteller believes you should talk to most" so would that be "learn who the storyteller believes you should talk to least?" which in itself would be good info like "why am I being pointed to a snitch? They have no real info to give..."
It's a town ability, so them swapping to evil would have to help the town. (e.g. look at Snake Charmer. Sucks for them, but it helps town.) Not really sure how that'd work out but there's probably a situation.
@@DasGanon Think of it like any other ability. I gave Mathematician in a response I just did elsewhere but let's look at Noble. They can't learn the truth, so they can't learn one evil. They can learn two evils, though...or three...or zero. They can learn anything but the truth. Now extrapolate that to High Priestess. They can learn anything but the most useful person. Could be least, second most useful, etc. Anyone else.
super excited to see how the new character interacts!
I’m playing this script in text format over Discord right now!
Absolutely incredible game. I really love the idea of High Priestess and it's so cool to hear from Steven on the thought behind it. You showcased it brilliantly, Ben.
...and Edd did quite the showcase of the Politician.
How would a ST treat a gossip of “I gossip that my ability won’t trigger tonight.”?
Most likely ignore it since it's something that would happen in the future, which would make it a guess and not a gossip. The Gossip is supposed to gossip about past or current events. Doesn't matter if it's a paradox or not.
@@Zedja I know, I was just being silly.
I gossip that I'm not using my gossip ability.
We love you Jacqui!
I have paused at 1:04:08 but if I'm Edd I'm saying Foresight to Ben and outing JoJo as the leviathan to give a good team win from evil.
This is gold and just what a politician would do lol
I also want that fursona in Teams at work, just for when people ask for facecam. (No, they are not demanding it, but just to see the reaction.)
Poor Jacqui, at least it is entertaining
Haven't finished watching the game yet, but arguably N2 wouldn't it have been better for Sam to maybe be told Ekin or Roxxi to work out why Roxxi died? I think that would have helped. Could also argue being told Rez and linking up the confirmation chains could have been useful as well. I suppose that's the subjectiveness of the High Priestess as a role. It depends on the STs thoughts and where they see the game going
Edit: Even with the outing at the start of the day. I think being told to speak to Ekin would have been useful
does the mezepheles work on dead players? because Roxxi said the word Foresight just before the game ended. Does the Mez have to 'make' the player say it, or can they say it in casual conversation and still get turned evil?
I believe Roxxi would have turned that night, but the game was over as soon as they failed to kill Jojo, as the Leviathan win condition triggers before night phase begins.
Question, can the Spy register as a helpfull good player for the HP to talk to???
High Priestess can learn of any player. Doesn't have to be Good-aligned.
The Spy doesn't register as a different *player*, they register as a different character. The High Priestess learns a helpful player, which is not subject to Spy misregistration. But that doesn't mean that the High Priestess can't learn the Spy's name. There are tons of valid reasons to tell the High Priestess the name of an evil player.
I defiantly would have sent Sam to Jacqui night 4 to get the Mez word 😂
It would have undoubtedly been funny, but Townsfolk are really supposed to help the good team, not the evil team. - Ben
Hope y’all enjoy this one!
Jojo's lipstick matches the evil token really well, nice
Legendary!
12:41 Netscape Navigator 😂.. still better than Microsoft Edge
So sad to watch Jacqui struggle to turn people, poor thing
Fun character idea! Right up my alley, even as a bluff.
this was a fun game. Well run, fun script. But why in the heck did good not at least put Jojo on the block???? It's day 5 and you're gonna lose if you don't kill someone anyway and Sam made such a great case. I was screaming at my computer watching this lol
Excited. Hail to the community management team!
Personally, this sort of game is why I don't especially enjoy the politician role. It's a bit predictable that they usually just wind up playing as an extra evil.
The fact that they play for evil is precisely the point? It's basically a Goon who is in control of their own destiny. With the Goon, if they're still good on day 3 or 4, they're generally most likely to win if they commit to playing solidly for good. Meanwhile, the Politician is actively incentivized to play *against* their current team until the moment it becomes evident that it is impossible for them to be most responsible for a loss.
I suppose I don't understand why you dislike an outsider that encourages you to play against your team.
Nice to see Manny playing!
That was a fun game to watch!
If this is the reveal video, why do I already remember a game with ben, where the high priestess was the marionette?
I don't know if you watch the ECG stream/channel, but the Saturday after the release there was a game where the High Priestess was the Marionette.
@sethmulhall186 that's probably it. I don't pay much attention to the exact timing of character releases, but it seemed odd. In any case, certainly an interesting game
Dunno why the hell Sam didn't vote on his own end of day nomination, no one said much to counter it, how bizarre
30:20
I’m curious about the statement “a mez-turned politician is terrifying”. My instincts tell me it’s a potential waste because a poli can play for evil anyway as long as there’s no Spirit of Ivory.
A Politician who is evil still has their own ability. Their ability is that if they are most responsible for their team's loss, they flip sides and win. They don't turn *evil* and win, they turn *alignments* regardless of their current alignment.
If the Politician gets Mez turned and convinces the Mez to tell them who the rest of the evil team is, they can out that to the rest of town, switch teams AGAIN, and win with good.
The fact that Edd chose not to turn himself is a mark of good sportsmanship, because he could have won the game on day 2 by tricking Jackie into thinking he was actually the Balloonist.
An evil Politician is actually such a horrible thing for the evil team that there are jinxes to prevent it. For example, the Pit-Hag is explicitly not allowed to turn an evil player into the Politician.
1:02:17
Magician challenge IMPOSSIBLE
Sad seeing some features being used, that I was unaware of when I was beta testing the new app.
Wasn’t a fan of this one. Couple of players did a lot of talking over and talking down to other players which prevented the quieter players from being heard and sharing their perspectives. I know it’s difficult with 12 players, but wish people were more respectful of other voices.
Its why they have the fable Hell's Librarian. If you know your group is likely to do this it gives you a mechanical reason to shut them all up for a moment and that lets the quieter people speak up after.