Is Sans Undertale Sans Deltarune - Deltarune Theory Basics 4
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- Alright, fourth basics video finally done! It's been a minute, but hey, here we are. Not as much art as I've had in previous Basics, but I do think I still have a good amount of visuals going on. I certainly enjoyed compiling all of this info, even if it's at times a little scattered lol
As per usual, I draw my backgrounds and additional art, but my sprites are by @easternCriminal
Video Credit:
• Undertale - Shyren con...
• RUUUUN - First time pl...
• My first time playing ...
• Lets Play Deltarune: C...
• Undertale - Sans an Pa...
• Undertale (Switch) - N...
• Undertale Patch 1/20/1...
• Lets Play Deltarune: C...
• Flawless Boss Battle -...
• Undertale True Lab Ful...
• UNDERTALE Reward Tiers...
"Kids please, Sans Undertale was my father. Call me Sans Deltarune."
This actually made me laugh
I choose to believe this is cannon
Toby would totally do that.
I love how the internet agrees that if a character doent have an official surname, then its the name of what game/show they're from.
Yeah, like John Elden Ring
Or John Halo
It's an amazing way to handle it.
Mm, gotta love John Souls. And who could forget Niko OneShot?
Mario Mario and Luigi Mario make a lot more sense when you put it like that
steve minecraft and V1 ultrakill
Clover Undertale Yellow
The cork board grows increasingly closer to a satanic ritual centered around summoning chapter 3 and 4 every episode, and I love it
"Some theory building blocks that work on their own divorced from Sans"
So you could say they're... Sans Sans?
I officially christen this single being Sans Nutdealer.
Sans of Times (multiple)
Another thing that I think supports the whole Sans is from another world theory, is the riverman saying: "Beware the man from another world." And the silver key he gives you to unlock his secret lab, could be based on a short story named the silver key that's about a man traveling through time. (It was written by H.P. Lovecraft!)
(There's also the Grilby thing from the newsletter that some other people already brought up, too! Implying he already knew them from somewhere. But this isn't quite as strong evidence since he also pretends to know Kris or the player when you first interact.)
You forgot to mention how, unlike every single other character in Deltarune, Sans looks the exact same that he does in Undertale. He's the only character like that.
The Froggit in the intro of Chapter 1 also looks identical to UNDERTALE Froggits, but who knows, maybe that's relevant somehow too? It's at least a little odd that they don't show up at any other point.
You make a great point but I will say I think onionsan looks the same
@@browniefox7218 Yeah but like, Onion-san doesn't wear clothes. What I meant is that all the characters that are reused from Undertale have different outfits and looks... except Sans.
But to be fair, he could also just be yet another joke that he's too lazy to change his clothes.
Not only Sans' appearance is identical but his theme song also has the same name. You can argue that in Deltarune Gaster theme "another him" implies there being separate Gasters while Sans is one and the same.
@@Ktoś-z4f I guess he is *sans* any differences. 😎
I feel like the one bit of context that helps this idea the most is Toby had Deltarune in mind first before Undertale.
The idea of adding synergy between the two through Sans and Papyrus is all too interesting to not add when making two separate games that parallel each other.
With regards to the blood debate, one point I don't see brought up a lot is that Monster Kid, at one point in Undertale's murder route, remarks that their heart is beating out of their chest. If monsters (or at least MK's species of monster) have hearts, then those hearts presumably pump blood, which would imply that monsters in Undertale also have blood. Of course, that raises the question of why Sans is the only monster whose blood we actually see, given that other monsters like Toriel and Undyne get even bigger gashes put in them when you kill them. (...It's not *actually* just ketchup, is it!?)
Regarding Grillby's, there was that thing in one of the newsletters that gave more details on Grillby and all his regular patrons, including Sans. It describes Sans's first time at the bar, where he walked in and said "i'll have the usual," pretending to be a regular until he actually became one. It's possible that this is just Sans doing a bit, as he is wont to do, or it could be that there was a Grillby's location wherever he came from where he actually *was* a regular. And if Sans's store in Deltarune is indeed a former Grillby's location, that's a pretty big piece of evidence in favor of him being from Deltarune if you ask me. Though the whole crossed-out Grillby's sign could just be an extension of the "meta-laziness" gag surrounding Sans, like how his sentry stations always have snow on them even in Hotland because he's too lazy to make a new sprite for them, or how he's the only character who didn't get a new outfit for Deltarune, or how his "shortcuts" are just him taking the shortest route to get offscreen. Too early to say for sure at this point.
And as for Papyrus and his green grass comment... In the True Pacifist ending, Papyrus doesn't recognize the sun when he goes out to the surface. Deltarune's world definitely has sunlight, so that would be a pretty big point against him and Sans being from Deltarune... But you know what has green grass and no sun? The patch of grass where the Undertale Kickstarter video took place. And that's where things get interesting, because that would imply that the Kickstarter video is canon... And during said video, Sans mentions fantrolls. How does Sans know what Homestuck trolls are? The only explanation is that Undertale and Deltarune have secretly taken place in Paradox Space this whole time. The Dark Worlds are Lands in a SBURB session. Gaster is a First Guardian. The Angel is Davepetasprite^2. It all makes too much sense. How blind we have all been.
Oh yeah, and in terms of what videos I'd like to see, the ones about time travel and "Deification of the Author" both sound super cool! I dunno about the RUclips algorithm, but once I find a creator I like I generally don't care what kind of content they make. People who are passionate about something always find a way to make talking about it interesting!
To be fair, its possible Deltarune Papyrus is a shut in who's never seen the sun before. But that's just playing devil's advocate.
@@renownerd.276
even then that's just seems REALLY hard to believe.
Or maybe papyrus forgot what the sun looked like. Ya know, like Sherlock Holmes! In the newsletter, Papyrus clearly has a bad memory of his past.
You guys might be overthinking this.
On the topic of UT Sans & Papyrus knowing about bathrooms, there is a Papyrus phone call where he mentions a bathroom, but when you call him again in the same room, he will quickly backtrack and claim not to know what a bathroom is.
Papyrus is also quite a sneaky little liar in general when it comes to his phonecalls, like when he pretends not to know what ice cream or a laboratory are while Sans is around, but very much does know these things in Sans' absence.
Conclusion: The "Sans & Papyrus knowing about bathrooms" thing might have actual significance, and not just be a joke.
It’s definitely one of those things with juuuuust enough interest to keep on the table. Kinda like the theory of hp standing for hope. The kinda thing you say as a half joke but are half serious about and tends to get a laugh quickly followed by a ‘wait you might be on to something’
I'm not entirely convinced on the topic of Sans n Papyrus knowing about bathrooms because of Alphys. She mentions having to go to the "bathroom" and a bathroom sign is visibly placed on the wall next to the entrance of the true lab.
@@eveb9459 Alphys might have learned about bathrooms from watching anime and passed this information on to Sans and Papyrus at some point.
@@Solibrae exactly what I was thinking.
The underground does have some exposure to human culture thanks to the things that fall from the surface to Waterfall. Alphys having a bathroom in her lab? She probably did it because she thinks human culture is so cool as a whole that she wanted to replicate it, even if she had no need for it.
Papyrus saying he needs to go to the bathroom despite not knowing what those are for? I can see him noticing a pattern of humans in movies and shows always saying they need to go to the bathroom when they want to get out of an awkward situation and he supposed that's all bathrooms are, just an excuse to leave somewhere, lol.
@@llegando-al-umbral Yeah, I think Alphys has the same behaviour since the "bathroom" in her lab is actually the lift to the True Lab. They might have taken "going to the bathroom" as a way to excuse yourself in embarrassing situations and not actually understand what a bathroom is.
Sans is also the only character who looks exactly the same in both games. Everyone else has small to big changes. It could just be a "Sans is lazy" joke, but it is still worth considering.
Also, Sans' dialog in chapter 1 is deliberately designed to trick the player into saying things that Kris wouldn't know. That might suggest that he expects us, the player, to know him.
@Chowder_T
then its sans traveling to deltarune and not the other way around.
@chongwillson972 Maybe he managed to fix the machine and get back to Deltarune and has some 4th dimensional chess scheme cooked up?
Or maybe it's been over two years, and Toby Fox induced brain rot has overtaken me lol
I now consider sh*t theory to be the strongest piece of evidence for Sans Undertale being Sans Deltarune.
Guys wait I have evidence of the connection: Deltarune is an anagram of Undertale, right?
*sans is an anagram of sans. Sans is his own anagram, therefore the one true Sans*
I have a personal theory that in order to reach the end of the game, you're going to have to go back to previously completed chapters, and that the interaction with Sans about "it's good to see you again," in addition to being a fun meta joke about Undertale, is hinting that you're going to talk to him in chapter 1 AFTER completing later chapters with him.
there are also other stuff no one talks about
for example:
1. sans making a promise to toriel: sans made a promise to somebody he isnt even supposed to even know the face of, in undertale (he doesnt like making promises). he also doesnt look as suprised as toriel in the pacifist ending when they see eachother for the first time. it all makes much more sense if he knew her from deltarune.
2. papyrus not showing in deltarune: i have very sad news. sans says papyrus "never saw a human" in undertale. and guess who kris didnt see out of undertale's main cast so far? papyrus. i hope this part is wrong and papyrus just forgets about kris or even doesnt notice kris being a human like he usually does but if it didnt happen yet, i doubt it will happen later.
3. if you unlock the secret room in the back of the house and then do a pacifist ending, when you are going back trough the entire underground after defeating asriel, you will see that there will also be another picture other than "sans with 3 people you dont recognize" and its a picture of "you, sans and your other friends" (wich may or may not be the picture you get if you say you have places to go after the pacifist run). this is not evidence to the theory, just something to keep in mind. i feel like a lot of the skeleton brothers actions will make more sense after we play deltarune
It's surprising to me there aren't more "Sans was once human" theories. Like, that would explain a lot about them, and it's a totally logical assumption for a skeleton to be like, a corpse of someone. But even I'm like "Hmm, seems farfetched."
I wonder if the Steven After Not Surviving and Sans is Ness theories just kinda poisoned the well
Would be cool, but I think Papyrus' dialogue about the pirate flag means that, at the very least, he doesn't think that skeletons come from humans. It would be kind of strange for a monster that just happens to look like a skeleton and a human that turned into a skeleton to be brothers without either of them acknowledging it.
I was about to come in and say Sans is Ness probably poisoned the well on that one. Interesting as it would be worldbuilding wise to have a human become a monater.
Because the community as a whole missed the only grounds to make an argument like that.
Spoilers for Undertale here.
In the Geno Route Chara will talk about how you (The Player) showed them the purpose of their "Reincarnation" and they directly call it that. This means the "Frisk" we control before they pick a name is Chara. "Frisk" is the new purpose we give.
The only post death human stuff the community has acknowledge is Kris looking like a corpse in the Dark Worlds and their weird movements without a Soul, I don't believe many acknowledged the possibility Kris was killed shortly before or at the start of Deltarune.
The community is really perceptive to some things, but missed major things.
@@cosmicskydragon333 I don't think Kris is a full-blown corpse. Kris reacts to certain actions without our input. Although, there is a possibility that Kris is braindead, and they are living from instincts alone.
I think the reason why the fandom ignores things, is because those things are not brought attention by RUclipsrs. RUclipsrs are the most influential group in the UT/DR community.
Furthermore, a majority of the "Fandom" Hasn't even played Undertale or Deltarune before. So they wouldn't know.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I know the blood is going to be mentioned, so here's something i haven't seen anybody else pick up on:
Yes, the red of sans' blood in undertale is the same colour as the ketchup, and a different red from the undertale soul, something people have used to argue means it isn't blood we see, but ketchup
BUT, the red used for the blood and ketchup in Undertale, while not the same red as the Undertale soul, IS the same red as the Deltarune soul
It might not mean anything considering there's multiple pinks used for Ralsei's scarf, but it's something to consider
Papyrus in particular is really interesting with this because there is the question of if he knows where he came from. The newsletter dialogue, if it is referring to Deltarune, seems to imply that he has some trouble remembering the past(which might play into why Sans wrote down Don't Forget? Does traveling between worlds hurt your memory? Idk that's just wild speculation). If we go with the idea that he doesn't remember then that just brings up so many new questions. Why doesn't he remember? What does he think happened? I've even seen some people speculate that Undertale Papyrus isn't Deltarune Papyrus, and Sans came to Undertale alone and took his other self's place. I don't know if i would go that far, but it really highlights how little we know about them right now.
My guess is that if Sans goes to Undertale later in the story, we're going to be the ones to cause it. I think the Papyrus quest is gonna lead into the creation of the machine he uses, and something will happen near the end of the game to send the two of them off.
Starlo in the background! we love UTY.
just have to say something after hearing it in the video. the kid who asks Kris if it hurts to be made of blood is asking because, for all they know, blood comes out when they get hurt. to be made of blood would therefore have to hurt a lot.
also, for more Sans Deltarune evidence, there’s the photo album in his secret lab. you can only find it during the end sequence of pacifist, and within are photos of Sans with people Frisk doesn’t recognize. important to note it only appears after pacifist, or after seeing most, if not all the monsters in the underground. who are these people?
when entering a name for the goner maker sequence, if you enter Kris, Susie, or Noelle, Gaster will say something along the lines of “YOU ARE ABOUT TO MEET SOMEONE VERY, VERY, WONDERFUL.” three people Gaster finds wonderful, huh?
finally, check Sans’ Lost Soul dialogue, from the Asriel fight in Undertale. nobody seems to bring it up despite how strange it is in hindsight. who could he be talking to, especially with the way his text is formatted?
The worlds are clearly different, but there's something connecting the two games
5:22 : “then do they bleed?” : I seem to remember a character asking the player character whether it hurts to be made of blood (because the player character is human).
I say “the player character” because I don’t remember whether this line was from undertale or from deltarune.
7:05 : nevermind, you addressed this
one thing you didn't mention which i think could be a huge piece of evidence, is that sans' room feels like a huge reference to dark worlds. when you walk in there for the first time, the lights are all off, and when you try walking forwards it looks like the room is much bigger than it should be. then, when the lights turn on, you realise that it was just an ordinary room full of strange objects. to me, it's kind of crazy how similar this is to the way the dark worlds play out in deltarune, and i feel like it has to be intentional
Papyrus…Papryus was clearly making up a stupid excuse to run out of Undyne’s house. People really think this?
Shit theory is the theory all others depend upon. Without it the theory community would be lost
Woah, you're really well-spoken and you make reasonable claims! You definitely deserve more attention.
fun fact alphys also mentions bathrooms
@@ShinySorlo Alphys is in on it. This shit goes all the way to the top.
That’s right, she runs to the bathroom (which is the elevator) after your first meeting her. My headcanon would be she 1) picked it up from anime and 2) has eaten human food that’s fallen down and thus has had the unique experience among monster of needing to use the bathroom
@@browniefox7218 not to mention her and sans hang out!
Bro is your blood page on the board the blood symbol from homestuck
Lol was curious how long it'd take for someone to notice that
Once chapters 3 and 4 come out you should definitely revisit these episodes and review any new info
id like to point out that darkeners have never died they have just "lost" you can interact with them and they are around to fight you again. not too important just wanted to point it out.
Yeah, I went back and forth on bringing it ip. I personally don’t like it bc darkness have never been killed in game, but I know people reference it often so I figured I may as well seeing as it’s the purpose of this series :D
*Darkners
Darkners have a special animation upon death. Darkners will turn into this red color, and they will dust away like monsters.
A video about the time travel trope in media would be really cool to see honestly.
That Time Travel video looks interesting!
Personally, it's always seemed pretty clear to me what the rabbit kid is implying. (although seeing how much debate there is around it maybe I'm just,,,,,, a genius? how do i word this without seeming egotistical?) Humans are, of course, full of blood all the time, but monsters only produce blood when injured. This could also mean that human blood and monster blood are biologically entirely different and simply have superficial visual similarities that caused early tribal era monsters and humans to misidentify it and thus start referring to them as the same thing, but that's a whole other rabbit hole.
I think someone else mentioned that too. I’d never heard about it until now. It makes some sense I guess?
if you think about it Burger Pants is probably the Kight, we know the Kight weres pants and who else is specifically said to be wearing pants?
it's also entirely within Toby's style to make the joke shop vendor the main antagonist
...no it isn't? Asgore comes to mind? And Chara?
@@Idazmi7 last I checked the game never states that Asgore wears pants
also Chara doesn’t exist in the Deltarune timeline
@@RaisinHook
I was referring to your statement _"entirely within Toby's style to make the joke shop vendor the main antagonist"_ - no it isn't. Asgore and Chara come to mind.
In the Xbox version of undertale, sans refrences noelle in the casino minigame.
well noelle and her family exist in the undertale world as well as deltarune as asgore talks about rudy in the winter alarm clock dialogue. As they are reindeer it's likely they'd live somewhere in snowdin so the idea that sans knows them still works even if he isn't from deltarune
it's sans time
Great as always! I especially like the transparency of saying what you aren't sure about.
You inspired me to make a deltarune theory video myself! I'm still a beginner and have a long way to go before even dreaming of being on this level, but I want to thank you for the motivation nonetheless!
Undertale characters have dialog portraits that animate to look like talking, deltarune characters don't
Glad to see this series returning! I've been recommending it to a lot of newer fans who don't have as much brain rot as me about Deltarune yet lol
Ooh, I would like the Deification of the Author and Time Travel videos.
Honestly, I feel like the first one applies to how the UTDR fandom treats anything Toby Fox says and does both in and outside of his games, lol.
"Deification of the Author"
Heh. It seems like the community needs to learn a lesson from "The Beginner's Guide" video game.
accidentally reloaded and turned out peak just got uploaded (cant wait to watch another banger deltarune video!!!)
Why does your character kinda remind me of angel hare? Also In Stars And Time is a game you could check out!
The thumbnail is so adorable!!!
I'd be interested in hearing your own view of things so branching out sounds cool! but the dtbs are fun to watch too
The only class I could ever pay attention to :3
i feel like im going crazy. For years i've said matpat was right with his sans is ness theory but got the game wrong [because deltarune wasn't known then] and that it wasn't earthbound it was deltarune, and here you are presenting the same facts as him just for a different game.....it feels poetic like the world is aligning to prove me right for nearly 8 years of torment.
for years the wider community called me a crazy old man, well look whos crazy now, NOT I.
sans is just
sans.
And sans is ness
Oh my god... Shit theory 😭 truly the biggest supporting evidence..
Jokes aside, fun little theory video! I love watching these and i love the little doodles on the cork board 🙏
5:56 the sound effect isn’t a genocide specific one tho, it’s an end of battle sound! Even in pacifist
6:36 actually since they don’t have their portraits on the graves, instead an item relating to each one of them, it’s much more likely that the items are burried there
10:15 should be noted that this is only in one specific version that came out a month before deltarune was released!!
12:21 do not even attempt to make sense of the actual timeline of how monster age works. I don’t think Toby has thought that far, I sincerely hope with how much time I spent trying to comprehend how the actual timeline of events between the war and frisk arriving in the underground is.
Anyway another great video!!! ❤❤❤ sorry for the uhm actually’s but my autism can’t be stopped in this regard ❤🎉
Fair, but you gain lv so sans is 100% dead.
Since we love wild theorizing around here :
Ima go a little off the deep end with this stuff, which dates back to like, Undertale's release. I frequented the datamining reddit for Undertale a ton when it came out. That was the main place people tried to work out everything related to Gaster, and any other secrets hidden in the game. Mostly Gaster.
Anyway, one thing I remember about the datamining. It was found that the order of things in the data arrays was pretty obviously linked to the order it was created. Makes sense right? Why would you bother to reorder it. But they also got some pretty decent timestamping on that stuff too. And one thing that lined up a bit was when the Kickstarter ended and the "another undertale related game" incentive was met. Which we all know NOW was deltarune (since Toby has told us he came up with Deltarune first and made Undertale instead, then went back and started making Deltarune because the kickstarter and moreso, Undertale, did so well). The biggest things that got added around then, more specifically near the end of all the Arrays, was Gaster stuff and everything about the Sans fight.
So obviously, this all starts to become huge speculation. But it always seemed EVERYTHING Gaster related has kind of been at a minimum, a pointer toward Deltarune. Some of that has been more obvious than others so far, but it keeps lining up. So one could easily surmise that when Deltarune "hints" and other aspects started coming up in Undertale, the fact everything about the Sans fight was seemingly developed at the same time? Kind of always supported this theory.
Oh yeah and I don't remember exactly but I am also fairly certain the hidden room behind Sans' house was also at this same point in the data so same deal there. Very likely has to do with Deltarune.
yea, i think lots of people agree that everything gaster related was literally just a teaser for deltarune. we've seen less than a quarter of deltarune so far, and have already seen way way more references to gaster than in undertale, he's literally the very first thing you see when you start the game
9:58 - To be more accurate, that Clam Girl has been there from the start and always mentioned "Suzy".
A few months later the 1st update to Undertale then added in the "don't forget" message if you've spoken to her.
When the Switch port released, 1 of the things it included was that "Goner" version of Clam Girl that mentions
"--the time you will meet [my neighbors daughter]... is fast approaching.", a little over 1 month before Deltarune 1st dropped.
(Also, her Deltarune name is "Susie" not "Suzie". 🤓)
I would like to suggest a series on Undertale fan comics! I thought about you maybe starting with a "Undertale and Deltarune comics 101"(sorry if I dont actually know what 101 means) which would be a video that is supposed to be people's introduction to comics, instead of a deep dive into a comic it's presenting them breifly and showing a bit the history of the fandom along the way, I would include Twin Runes, Dogs of Future Past, Dreemur Reborn, Handplates, Over the Void, Paper trail, Inverted Fate, Growth Spurt, Endertale, and others you'd like!
I actually have a lot of nostalgia for Endertale and it was my favorite as a kid, but Dogs of Future Past as well, and Twin Runes is ongoing and really good at the moment, and that's where the second part of my idea is, some videos going into certain comics, discussion about them, revisiting, "what happened to _?" videos, where you choose a specific comic and talk about it in the way you want, like explaining the story, or something else that I said like discussion about it in other ways(idk how to describe it)
Of course you can do it in any way you want to and this is my suggestion, comics were always a big part of the fandoms, they're way more acessable to make than fangames, since fangames involve making drawings, story AND programming, while comics can be just drawings and story.
That's a good idea! It'd definitely be colored by my own experiences, of course - I've read most of those, but generally I've stuck away from comics that have like, au-sans, which mostly means I wouldn't be able to talk about them in the depths people would probably like! I've considered talking about some comics before, and I have a little tumblr blog that's just a collection of a few UTDR comics (I think it's liked in my like, links page on here?)
And you're using 101 about right! College courses (at least in the US?) are labeled suing that system, with 101 (or 1010 if you college adds an extra zero on the end like mine did) being the most basic introductory course and the further into your major you go, the higher the number. I believe some of my classes got up into the 4000s before I graduated.
11:15 Fun fact, they revealed Papyrus is a Darkner in the first interview. Whilst answering the question "How would you feel if you knew a friend was keeping something from you?", Papyrus's talk sprite blushes RED. Only Darkners have colored talk sprites! This interview was done in 2023, well after the colored talk sprite=Darkner rule was established. I'm fairly certain Papyrus and Sans are from some Halloween-themed dark world we'll come across later. It is Autumn in Deltarune, maybe someone made a Dark Fountain in a store?
Oh interesting! That would still leave the question tho of how they can exist in the light world, ever a question w Darkner sans theories.
@@browniefox7218 Yeah, when we remove a Darkner from a Dark World, they have the form of an item. So it certainly would be weird for a Darkner to not take the form of an inanimate object in the Light World. I heard a theory that the cosmology of Deltarune is layers of fiction where the Light World is our fiction and the Dark World is the Light World's fiction. A Darkner in the Light World would be akin to a Darkner ascending a level of reality. However, LIghtners can go down and back up without issue. Maybe there's some attribute Lightners possess in the Dark World which Darkners do not which allows them to enter the Light World in an animate form. Maybe it's possible for a Darkner to gain this attribute. Maybe this would explain how Gaster was able to contact the player on Twitter, despite being fiction to us? Fiction becomes reality? Life imitates art? Allowing that to occur would fill both those plot holes, as well as explain how Lightners can enter Dark Worlds.
@@Laff700 Sans might have stolen a soul from a lightner. That's the only way he could be in the light world (that we know of).
@@CalvinNoire We don't actually know that it works like that. We know Spamton thought taking Kris's soul would make him free, but that doesn't necessarily mean entering the Light World. Sans is a scientist, so there's probably some kind of mechanism they discovered and managed to use to exit their Dark World.
EDIT: Unless Sans has Kris's soul. Actually, can't Goners be used to explore different worlds? Maybe Sans is using whatever technology those use to enter the Light World...
Thank you for this lesson, Professor. I do wonder how many people base their ideas on what the ending of DR to be based on the idea that it _must_ be a prequel to UT due to Sans. As, if true, that means whatever happens, he must survive. However I, personally, feel like its too soon to say for sure. Though if they are the same, I want to believe that means that whoever Gaster is talking to in Report 17 _can't_ be Sans, as by the time Sans arrives on the scene in DR, it should be after the point where Gaster discovers Dark Fountains in UT.
The puzzle sure does deepen, eh?
@@DyxoXinoro yeah, the timeline gets messy if you try to get all the things to work as ya want for sans. I will say tho that while he’s need to live, with the power of shortcuts he can probably get out of dodge pretty quick if need be, so the stability and survival of the rest of town isn’t guaranteed.
@@browniefox7218 That is true, and the idea of the town being destroyed is still a popular theory for good reason. The final chapter taking place during the Roaring just feels narratively satisfying.
nice i was waiting for a new video from you!!!
I'd like to see you talked about time travel and why you think it's a really good trope
Gosh I love your avatar so much
I'm gonna mention it bc I think it's REALLY relavent.
Susie has an unused sprite in chapter 2 of her bleeding.
Likely would've been used after she fell and hurt herself in the trash heap. But still noteworthy.
Seeing as Toby fully expects us to be looking through Deltarune I think this sprite can be put into a maybe pile for now.
The tricky thing with unused sprites is I feel like this leads to the exact same conundrum brought up in the video : that sprite could be used to say see, she clearly bleeds! But also it’s possible that someone made it and Toby Fox told them not to use it because monsters don’t have blood.
@@easternCriminal The weird thing about unused content in Deltarune is Toby fully expects it to be found.
Unlike in Undertale where he hadn't wanted dataminers spilling the guts of his game, in Deltarune's case he's actively encouraging it.
(Although to be fair Entry 17 has been used as evidence for years, but that's kinda comparing apples to oranges)
I'm in this weird spot where I feel like it'd be WEIRDER to keep the Susie bleeding sprite in the files if it wasn't canon, or at least allowed to be theory fodder.
Plus I believe Temmie must've done the sprite, as she does most of the animated sprite work. And Temmie making that mistake is... odd, as she'd be the second most aquatinted with monster lore, first being Toby himself...
See I to go back and forth on whether we can use the Susie sprite, so I tend to bring it up as a "MAYBEEEEE".
This could probably be answered if that toddler didn't throw a wrench into our theories, the agony.
@@LocalDorkadoodle I know he expects us to look through files but I also think that as his team gets larger it becomes more likely for every inch of the data mined content to be relevant. It seems unreasonable to me to expect that the files of the game itself should be the same cleanliness as the game proper. I’m not saying it can’t be used as supportive details, I just think it can’t be used as information to evidence in its own right.
@@easternCriminal Naw, naw I get what you mean. And hopefully I'm not coming off too strong oops-
I guess I'd also find it odd if he didn't remove something in a patch as well? Cause he's shown with Undertale that he's willing to add tidbits of dialogue to add SOMETHING to the canon or never ending theory hell... I guess that's different from removing stuff so idk.
And I guess my only counter argument is that since we're discussing chapter 2 the team still was kinda small...
And looking at the credits there's like 3-4 other "pixel art assistance" but according to interviews this can be a lot of different things, not just animations.
So I'm not willing to fully write off the Susie blood sprite, rather I'm gonna put it in the "real suspicion evidence there Toby" pile lmao. Cause I mean it counts towards the blood theory if y'know... we CAN use it, but we might need to wait for Ch.3+4 to see if anything else like that pops up.
@@easternCriminal
it could simply be unused because it doesn't make much sense for susie to be bleeding that badly and a twisted foot or something similar makes more sense for the scene.
I mean she literally goomba stomps ralsei and both of them are fine.
Maybe humans and monsters in Deltarune both have blood but humans just have much more of it? Where as Deltarune monsters can be made of a bit of both. The rabbit child could still come to that misunderstanding and if UT Sans = DR Sans, then he could still bleed and turn to dust.
i’d love time travel media videos :0
Honestly I don’t mind what you do next. I need just anything while we all go insane waiting for chapter 3 and 4 releasing when Silksong is done. I think he said something like that. Could be any day now. Ha ha ha………ha
Yo this is an amazing video, I loved it :)
My personal opinion on the matter is that sans deltarune is not sans undertale, taking toby's initial "none of these characters are the same" at face value.
now, whether the sans are *aware* of each other and their stories is another question.
A possibility for Kris to have a body made of blood is that while monster may still turn to dust when they die, I am unsure if that is still true in Deltarune, humans definitely leave a body behind when they die ergo their bodies are made of blood.
* One important note - we actually don't know if Sans turns to dust when he dies! There is no sound effect for monsters turning to dust, as that same sound effect will play when you spare a monster and it is essentially just an indicator that you've won the battle.
* It also plays when they leave the battle even without sparing - it plays when Aaron flexes himself out of the battle, when Whimsun runs away from a battle, and when Greater Dog gets bored of you ignoring it, just to name a few.
* However it is inconsistent, for example it doesn't play when you spare Toriel or when Mad Dummy leaves their battle, and in geno fights it does always play when the monster turns to dust (Muffet, Papyrus, Toriel) rather than when the battle actually ends. So I guess it's moreso up to interpretation if you think Sans turns to dust when he dies.
you're scripted to level up when you beat sans, so i think that's more than enough evidence to say that he died. also, the entire world is destroyed like 5 minutes later, so it wouldn't really matter either way
My fave class continues!
12:36 Symbalily gameplay spotted, extremely based.
This video is really interesting indeed whenever Sans gonna get a bigger role later on or will he just stay as a background character i feel there maybe some sort of revelation with him and perhap Papyrus in a future chapter let just wait and see
Very concise.
Sans the Comic... Maybe Sans from Deltarune is legendary Sans the Cursive that lost his Hat? But hey thag just theory, a game theory
yeah yeah make jokes about sans is ness now but everyone will see at the end of the game he wasn't crazy he just got the game wrong. [which in his defense we didn't know about deltarune in 2016 either.]
Hi professor, I brought you an apple 🍎
Suck up.
I'm not gonna knock on the "monsters in deltarune bleed" theory just because i feel like both options are equally plausible with what we currently have, but i will say that im leaning towards "they don't bleed" because of the "does it hurt to be made of blood?" comment. The other mentions of blood are common phrases- yeah, it is weird that they're beings that dont bleed but mention it pretty often anyway, but "does it hurt to be made of blood?" seems like its purposefully bringing attention to the fact that kris is the only one who has blood and alienating them from their peers again. It seems that outside of hometown, humans might be some kind of majority or something (like how America's pop culture is pretty well known around the world) based on what we saw on TV (i'm specifically thinking of the kaiju movie), so I wonder if it's "cool" to talk about blood despite not having any.
That being said, the theory that Gaster himself is being inconsistent through DR because of his lack of knowledge is really really funny
Your OC is so cute!
Thanks! @easterncriminal drew them for me :D
Sans is actually from Among Us
Noelle didn't say that magic is impossible in the light world she just says that she wish she knew it. I saw a theory that the church bans magic or something and that most of the town is religious so we don't see anyone use magic in the light world.
Sorry teach that I’m here 2 hours late, glad I could catch the lesson though! Have an apple 🍎
Hi, Browniefox. I LOVE (not level of violence 😂) your video. They're interesting, vero funny, and REALLY seem like a School Classroom, which inspires a feeling of "Calming Tranquillity" (even more than the Waterfalls ahahah), other than learning and mental work. Besides i go crazy for your Draw Style. The Drawings are SUPER MEGA ULTRA HYPER CUTE. And your are a likewise nice person.
And i have to tell you something you didn't say, probably because you don't know it:
In the past, Toby Fox has talked about Sans'blood and he actually said that it's not blood...but Ketchup 😂😂.
Yes, a bottle of Ketchup. Ok, we are talking about Toby Fox, the master of trolling, but the way it has said it, implies that it's canon. And it explain why is the only monster that bleeds (and His relentionship with that type of Salsa) Please, correct me if I am wrong, or if I said something false.
Thanks for the video you made, for your entire work.
@@mirkobonora4456 thanks! And interesting, I didn’t know that. Can you remember where Toby said that? I still think nonetheless it’s interesting to investigate; odds are when Toby was making Undertale he just drew the blood to be dramatic and didn’t think how it’d be accepted lore wise. It also possible that Toby could have later decided to make it mean something! Authors and creators are fickle creatures :3
I searched everywhere but i can't remember where i listened it. I only remember that was 2017/2018
It's a lot of time. Maybe it was a distorted memory. But I remember something like that. I am really sorry, Browniefox. Forgive me.
Anyway, taking it as a theory, since i can't find the source, it made sense
The only things i found are discussions topic regarding this argument
Yes, i REALLY am an idiot 😂
Sorry again, Browniefox
SAUS UNDERRUNE
Shit theory my beloved
Yes, sans is nes-sans
Eh, I think Everyman in Deltarune is the same person as Everyman in Undertale.
its ben FIVE MONTHS
guys, what if Jerry Undertale is actually Jerry Deltarune. I mean, think about it, Jerry can tell everyone he has to go to the bathroom, yet the one NPC in Grillby's says that monster food doesn't travel through the body.
Generally im a big fan of zelda and kirby so videos on those games appeal to me!
Maybe a kirby theory basics?
Maybe a video on thw original ff7 (not the biggest fan of rhe compilation and the remake)
I have 2 sans plushies. One is sans undertale and the other is sans deltarune
The blood types could be the monster blood types?
Personally, I really hope that deltarune sans is *not* undertale sans, mostly because I think the idea that every world has its own sans but all the sanses are identical is absolutely hilarious, sans doesn't change, sans is always sans
12:00 it's obvious... Toby fox worked on homestuck before Deltarune, right? so, having Grillby's be there with the name scraped off means one thing.
toby/sans is trying to tell us that Deltarune is *post-scratch*
@@EtchJetty chapter 3 is when the classpects start to get introduced (damn now I wanna figure out classpects lol)
@@browniefox7218 Kris is a Maid of Blood ("what's it like to be made of blood?") and You/the player is an Heir of Heart, since you inherit the heart from Undertale with all the baggage it entails
spamton is a prince of light spot-on imo
Noelle is maybe a bard of blood? At least that's my current assessment but I could be swayed elsewhere. I like her as bard tho
Starlo!
Snas Undertale from the hit game UnderUnder from Underman made by deltarune gaster
How could you make a title a question without a question mark
Only moistcritical is allowed to do that
*of course sans is the same. except for backstory which should be different from this alternate universe*
Also, if you kill Toriel theres a black and white line that kind of looks like blood, but its hard to tell.
You forgot about Sans Earthbound?
Well it goes without saying that is the Alpha Sans from which all other Sans are spawned
@@browniefox7218 "don't tell that to the other sanses, ok?"
I think the thing with Ice-E isn’t just that it’s a minor thing in Undertale but specifically that it doesn’t appear or is mentioned anywhere in the game except on sans’s puzzle, so the argument is that Ice-E doesn’t even exist in Undertale’s universe and it’s something sans has from Deltarune. But I believe this was disproven as Ice-E is mentioned in some super obscure place related to UT, like alarm clock dialogue or something
Interesting, do you have any idea where such a mention could be other than the alarm clock? I checked and unless my eyes are failing me it isn't there.
Since this would be a pretty big factor in the validity of this theory, I'm interested.
@@Lysvsyl I have no idea honestly, I just remembering hearing that in a conversation on discord. Maybe a twitter mention or something?
CRAP IM LATE TO CLASS-
Soooooo…
Does the shit theory implie that jerry is from deltarune?
YIPPEEEEE!!!
In regards to the Dust/Blood debate I think you left out a bit of evidence/explanation for the Dust side.
"Like when you put ketchup on your arms and told me it was blood?" - from Noelle in chapter 1. Although this could be just like, yknow, Noelle being scared easy and it being a good prank, i think its important to note that this implies that she didn't know what blood looked like, which would make sense if she didn't have blood.
The graves in the graveyard all list objects "an [object] for a [X]" except for Gerson when interacted with. Their sprites also have the objects listed on the grave on them above where the writing would be. Gerson's grave has a hammer on it and in Chapter 2, we see Alvin talk about a hammer while at Gerson's grave. All of these imply UT funeral rites still apply.
We also know some monsters at the minimum cannot have blood, like Ghosts and Fire Elementals, both of which we've seen in DR.
This is all in addition to the bunny child in the apartment.
It seems likely to me that magic still comprises monster bodies, even if they can't wield it in the light world as far as we are aware.
Susie, The Warrior, and Darkners are the only ones to mention Blood. Susie is genuinely obsessed with it, its one of her interests, and she is the main character to bring it up. The Warrior uses it as a phrase. Darkner biology is unknown.
It seems to me that Susie being so focused on blood is not meant to be an explanation on monster biology in DR, but her being unusual specifically.
Also Toby please stop being incredibly vague on if magic can be wielded by monsters in the light world. Most details point towards them not being able to, but some do. Like how nobody comments on suddenly gaining magic in the dark world (Susie only comments on her axe), or how Noelle's wording is "i wish i knew healing magic in real life" specifically. Once you realize how intentionally vague he left it, it drives you crazy, just like all the other vague details he left. Like they probably can't, but why not be specific and just say they can't? Is someone gonna pull out magic in the light world at some point???? Probably overthinking this bit.
One thing I will say is that Noelle seems to think she could heal her father with dark world magic in Cyber world when she says "where everything can be healed with a little spell." One thing we actually do know about healing magic from UT is that it cannot heal illnesses, which is never directly stated but implied by Chara/Asgore getting sick by the buttercups and there being 'nothing we could do' in relation to Chara. I assume we'll get a scene like this in chapter 4 or 5 with Noelle and Rudy where this relevation is given to her.
yayy
Lore of Is Sans Undertale Sans Deltarune - Deltarune Theory Basics 4 momentum 100