The fact that Suppression takes cover into the equation if the enemy moves is really what holds it back. That's a pretty stupid mechanic, considering Overwatch shots don't do that.
And if you had points , its always nice to still pick up perks from the other tree as they still great. Even i always tend to get one Grenadier for DMG and one for exposives only. And always has them in pairs where i can choose if bring one or both in a mission. The last its a fun way to break havok on enemy pods and watch them blown into bits all the time. Pair them with Reaper and laugh in the concept of "Colateral Damage". ALSO a must against chosens or rulers.
Interesting point there suppression considers the cover. I didn't know that; I just wondered why it won't hit all the time.... it changes my opinion about the 2. step. Thanks, these breakdowns are really helpful!
All your videos are incredibly informative. I'm right away retraining one of my grenadiers to have demolition ability now. I only started play this game this month (bought on steam sale) and most other information source regarded demolition ability underwhelming vs suppression (both not that amazing really) because grenade can uncover structures more efficiently. However, on my second play through I quickly ran out of grenades and can't bust through covers. Bullets are infinite and I didn't know you can blow up stuff along the path of bullets, like cars n stuff. Some people hates TTS voices but I don't get it, I rather can't stand videos with lots of sub texts that forces me to watch the content and read at the same time. I have absolutely no problem with TTS voices, it's tool I use to absorb several books a week. Anyway, great job👍
Pertaining to the suppression ability, I will add that it is useless against teleporting enemies such as avatars, chosen with the planewalker ability, and Codex. I learned that the hard way
It's worth mentioning how much more flexibility Heavy Ordnance gives you. Normally putting a flashbang, frost, EMP, etc on your grenadier is really limiting; one frag/plasma is rarely enough for a mission. Being able to carry a utility grenade while still having two cover-clearing grenades is really handy. Holo Targeting is REALLY GOOD, mind you, but I'd always pick the alternative up with AP when I get the chance.
4:31 what?? That's stupid. This has to be a bug. Or they should mention it in the description. 7:49 I have also found that supression really isn't as useful as it was in Xcom1. In EU it was useful against Thin men, Sectopods, and Disks, who all don't move a lot and will kill your soldiers with one shot (depending on the month), so supression was a good way of migitating that risk. I think most of the time they just shot back at your guy anyway, which would of course miss due to the aim penalty. Sadly, as you mentioned, most enemies in Xcom 2 will move and then shoot, probably because they have less aim than enemies did in EU. So you will just end up using other abilities or explosives to take care of the threat. It's a shame really, supression was one of my favorite abilities. Perhaps they should consider making the suppression affect mutliple targets, like SHIVs could in EU. *Volatile Mix* you forgot to mention that Volatile Mix adds damage to most grenades that normally don't do damage on impact, for example frost grenades, or flashbang grenades. And according to a reddit post: "Also, Volatile Mix adds +2 damage to the 'burn' effects from Incendiary and Acid grenades."
You're right, I didn't mention the damage on non-lethal grenades. Normally not something I consider as I typically only use lethal grenades on Grenadiers. Also, I remember specifically checking about the DoT effects and I think it was patched out at some point. A quick Google suggests it still occasionally happens but it's glitchy.
Let’s be honest. The first rank should have been suppression vs padding and the 3rd Holo target vs shredder. So that it feels more like a meaningful choice/build like Xcom EU/EW cause as it is, It’s a trap for new players that didn’t knew any better.
A potential use for heavy ordnance is that with the bonus grenade, you can carry two grenades, a heavy weapon, AND special ammo rather than having to give up a slot
Also, Blast Padding scales with your armor, so you'll get 3 armor instead of one on the third armor tier. I think the 30% reduction in explosive damage is meant when using your grenades on occasions that you can't avoid taking friendly damage. Still, I 100% agree that shredder is a much better ability.
Without double-checking, I am 90% sure that it always gives a single armor point, regardless of armor tier. There's even a mod on the Workshop specifically for it: "Scalable Blast Padding [WotC Compatible]"
That might make the ability worth while. They shouldn't give no brainer ability choices like that. I get that it's just the first ability and it's not supposed to be too powerful so blast padding makes sense, but shredding fire is too powerful even has a mid level ability
Eh, even with Scaling Blast Padding, Shredder is still superior. Blast Padding is there if you're expecting the Grenadier to get hit, which won't happen if you play your cards right and kill all the aliens or lock down any survivors. XCOM 2 embraces "the best defence is a good offense", so more less aggressive passives like Aim tend to be overshadowed.
I like to slap a superior scope, superior perception PCS and tracer rounds on my grenadier. Now quite a few shots are like a free hail of bullets, including chain shots! Hit chance sits at a 100 % even if enemies are on half cover and not too far away, also for enemies in full cover if you have the height advantage bonus. I always make a grenadier like this. Works super well if you manage to get a grenadier with rapid fire random ability that you can unlock at the training center. Combine that with teamwork or inspiration and you have a unit that can in a single turn kill or severely weaken two hard targets, e.g., a sectopod and a gatekeeper.
Nice guide. I usually pick up Heavy Ordinance at the same time as Holo Targeting, with saved AP. Being able to use double frost bombs and a frag/plasma or the other way around is too good to pass up. (Or have two ‘nades and experimental ammo, mimic beacons or whatever)
Hey there. I just discovered your vídeos and I already found multiple great infoemations I didn't knew, even though I have finished multiple times in legend dificulty. I am watching all your vids in this play list but I would like to know: what do you mesmo buy preventing speeding spaw waves? I am talking about the demolition ability.
You can for the WotC faction classes, which is what I recommend doing in my Skirmisher video. However I don't know how this works with the base classes and their standard promotion screens.
@@veegeeplz it works for every class man, you can hold on to get a double ability in a single rank that you desire.. It requires the Avenger to have a Training Center.. I mostly skip the corporal rank of my sharpshooter, and pick the double ability (Deadeye and Lightning Hands) on Sergeant Rank..
An extremely niche use for Suppression that I’ve found is locking down Gatekeepers. If you suppress one, it just keeps cycling it’s offensive and defensive stances, before ending it’s turn. I doubt it’s intentional, but it saved my squad in a pinch
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to drop a dislike here. I was hoping you'd cover the training center and PCS parts of the grenadier. Shredder should always be picked but the ability that gives 1 point of armor can and should be grabbed from the training center (WotC only) in the late game. This is a really nice bonus once your health starts getting above 10 as it actually dramatically improves your survivability. Salvo ability applies to W.A.R / E.X.O suit heavy weapons. Shredder gun heavy weapon for that armor suit is basically a saturation fire on steroids, so you can ignore saturation fire ability and take rupture ability instead which is actually a MUST HAVE ability in your squad if you wan't to win the game and kill those pesky chosen, gatekeepers, andromedons etc.. Due to poor aim, perception PCS is a good choice to improve that part of your kit. If you have heavy armor, you could even grab a health PCS to make your guy super tanky.
Hi there. Thanks for sharing your opinions. PCS choices aren't worth discussing because they're pretty self-explanatory for most classes. Perception / Aim is clearly the best choice, unless it's a more mobility-based character like Templars. Likewise, doubling back for choice abilities using the Training Center should be obvious, and I do mention special cases in other videos. That being said, Blast Padding definitely wouldn't be on my personal list of considerations. Finally, although I didn't show a clip of it, I did mention Heavy Weapons multiple times when talking about Salvo.
The fact that Suppression takes cover into the equation if the enemy moves is really what holds it back. That's a pretty stupid mechanic, considering Overwatch shots don't do that.
yes it makes no sense.
however i think overwatch shots might also take cover into the equation...
thats just stupid
It woud be good if it woud let you take a shot and then enable the existing mechanic , as it is is pretty bad
And if you had points , its always nice to still pick up perks from the other tree as they still great. Even i always tend to get one Grenadier for DMG and one for exposives only. And always has them in pairs where i can choose if bring one or both in a mission. The last its a fun way to break havok on enemy pods and watch them blown into bits all the time. Pair them with Reaper and laugh in the concept of "Colateral Damage". ALSO a must against chosens or rulers.
Heavy gunner Granadier with aiming buffed through covert mission is becoming one of my main squad. Very reliable chain shot are devastating.
Interesting point there suppression considers the cover. I didn't know that; I just wondered why it won't hit all the time.... it changes my opinion about the 2. step.
Thanks, these breakdowns are really helpful!
All your videos are incredibly informative. I'm right away retraining one of my grenadiers to have demolition ability now. I only started play this game this month (bought on steam sale) and most other information source regarded demolition ability underwhelming vs suppression (both not that amazing really) because grenade can uncover structures more efficiently.
However, on my second play through I quickly ran out of grenades and can't bust through covers. Bullets are infinite and I didn't know you can blow up stuff along the path of bullets, like cars n stuff.
Some people hates TTS voices but I don't get it, I rather can't stand videos with lots of sub texts that forces me to watch the content and read at the same time. I have absolutely no problem with TTS voices, it's tool I use to absorb several books a week.
Anyway, great job👍
Pertaining to the suppression ability, I will add that it is useless against teleporting enemies such as avatars, chosen with the planewalker ability, and Codex. I learned that the hard way
It's worth mentioning how much more flexibility Heavy Ordnance gives you. Normally putting a flashbang, frost, EMP, etc on your grenadier is really limiting; one frag/plasma is rarely enough for a mission. Being able to carry a utility grenade while still having two cover-clearing grenades is really handy. Holo Targeting is REALLY GOOD, mind you, but I'd always pick the alternative up with AP when I get the chance.
4:31 what?? That's stupid. This has to be a bug. Or they should mention it in the description.
7:49 I have also found that supression really isn't as useful as it was in Xcom1. In EU it was useful against Thin men, Sectopods, and Disks, who all don't move a lot and will kill your soldiers with one shot (depending on the month), so supression was a good way of migitating that risk. I think most of the time they just shot back at your guy anyway, which would of course miss due to the aim penalty.
Sadly, as you mentioned, most enemies in Xcom 2 will move and then shoot, probably because they have less aim than enemies did in EU. So you will just end up using other abilities or explosives to take care of the threat.
It's a shame really, supression was one of my favorite abilities. Perhaps they should consider making the suppression affect mutliple targets, like SHIVs could in EU.
*Volatile Mix* you forgot to mention that Volatile Mix adds damage to most grenades that normally don't do damage on impact, for example frost grenades, or flashbang grenades. And according to a reddit post: "Also, Volatile Mix adds +2 damage to the 'burn' effects from Incendiary and Acid grenades."
You're right, I didn't mention the damage on non-lethal grenades. Normally not something I consider as I typically only use lethal grenades on Grenadiers.
Also, I remember specifically checking about the DoT effects and I think it was patched out at some point. A quick Google suggests it still occasionally happens but it's glitchy.
Let’s be honest. The first rank should have been suppression vs padding and the 3rd Holo target vs shredder. So that it feels more like a meaningful choice/build like Xcom EU/EW cause as it is, It’s a trap for new players that didn’t knew any better.
A potential use for heavy ordnance is that with the bonus grenade, you can carry two grenades, a heavy weapon, AND special ammo rather than having to give up a slot
Also, Blast Padding scales with your armor, so you'll get 3 armor instead of one on the third armor tier. I think the 30% reduction in explosive damage is meant when using your grenades on occasions that you can't avoid taking friendly damage. Still, I 100% agree that shredder is a much better ability.
Without double-checking, I am 90% sure that it always gives a single armor point, regardless of armor tier.
There's even a mod on the Workshop specifically for it: "Scalable Blast Padding [WotC Compatible]"
That might make the ability worth while. They shouldn't give no brainer ability choices like that. I get that it's just the first ability and it's not supposed to be too powerful so blast padding makes sense, but shredding fire is too powerful even has a mid level ability
Eh, even with Scaling Blast Padding, Shredder is still superior.
Blast Padding is there if you're expecting the Grenadier to get hit, which won't happen if you play your cards right and kill all the aliens or lock down any survivors.
XCOM 2 embraces "the best defence is a good offense", so more less aggressive passives like Aim tend to be overshadowed.
I like to slap a superior scope, superior perception PCS and tracer rounds on my grenadier. Now quite a few shots are like a free hail of bullets, including chain shots! Hit chance sits at a 100 % even if enemies are on half cover and not too far away, also for enemies in full cover if you have the height advantage bonus. I always make a grenadier like this.
Works super well if you manage to get a grenadier with rapid fire random ability that you can unlock at the training center. Combine that with teamwork or inspiration and you have a unit that can in a single turn kill or severely weaken two hard targets, e.g., a sectopod and a gatekeeper.
Nice guide.
I usually pick up Heavy Ordinance at the same time as Holo Targeting, with saved AP. Being able to use double frost bombs and a frag/plasma or the other way around is too good to pass up. (Or have two ‘nades and experimental ammo, mimic beacons or whatever)
Hey there. I just discovered your vídeos and I already found multiple great infoemations I didn't knew, even though I have finished multiple times in legend dificulty. I am watching all your vids in this play list but I would like to know: what do you mesmo buy preventing speeding spaw waves? I am talking about the demolition ability.
Explosions cause Lost waves to spawn more frequently. Demolition removes cover without having to use an explosive.
in WOTC, can I just hold an ability pick for the next promotion?
so that I can pick double ability on that next promotion rank..
You can for the WotC faction classes, which is what I recommend doing in my Skirmisher video. However I don't know how this works with the base classes and their standard promotion screens.
@@veegeeplz it works for every class man, you can hold on to get a double ability in a single rank that you desire..
It requires the Avenger to have a Training Center..
I mostly skip the corporal rank of my sharpshooter, and pick the double ability (Deadeye and Lightning Hands) on Sergeant Rank..
An extremely niche use for Suppression that I’ve found is locking down Gatekeepers. If you suppress one, it just keeps cycling it’s offensive and defensive stances, before ending it’s turn.
I doubt it’s intentional, but it saved my squad in a pinch
Nice video man.
Hey, you need to do one for Psi Operatives
Suppression removes enemy's overwatch
14:12
Lol there are no fences in xcom
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to drop a dislike here.
I was hoping you'd cover the training center and PCS parts of the grenadier. Shredder should always be picked but the ability that gives 1 point of armor can and should be grabbed from the training center (WotC only) in the late game. This is a really nice bonus once your health starts getting above 10 as it actually dramatically improves your survivability. Salvo ability applies to W.A.R / E.X.O suit heavy weapons. Shredder gun heavy weapon for that armor suit is basically a saturation fire on steroids, so you can ignore saturation fire ability and take rupture ability instead which is actually a MUST HAVE ability in your squad if you wan't to win the game and kill those pesky chosen, gatekeepers, andromedons etc..
Due to poor aim, perception PCS is a good choice to improve that part of your kit. If you have heavy armor, you could even grab a health PCS to make your guy super tanky.
Hi there. Thanks for sharing your opinions.
PCS choices aren't worth discussing because they're pretty self-explanatory for most classes. Perception / Aim is clearly the best choice, unless it's a more mobility-based character like Templars.
Likewise, doubling back for choice abilities using the Training Center should be obvious, and I do mention special cases in other videos. That being said, Blast Padding definitely wouldn't be on my personal list of considerations.
Finally, although I didn't show a clip of it, I did mention Heavy Weapons multiple times when talking about Salvo.