I don't really pay attention to cash back or points. I treat my credit card the same as a debit card and pay it off every Friday when i get paid. sometimes i get rewards, cool, but the main reason i use it is to protect my money. I have had my debit card hacked too many times and i like the idea of having a stop gap between the money in my account and whatever company i spend with.
I agree it still hurts me spending any money at all I'm extremely cheap. Also the statement of if we had to pay taxes with $100 bills wouldn't hurt as much is complete BS. Last year I saw my account say minus two thousand something odd dollars and it still hurt. Hurt more than it felt good earning $2000
Less than 5 minutes into this video, and I can confirm that when I switched from using credit cards to using cash for most, if not all, transactions (minus large purchases like cars, etc.) I was more likely to be very discerning; did i need it, why? good/bad investment. etc. I became a more focused shopper at the grocery store, for example. Also, I hesitate to break larger bills when considering impulse buys.
Exactly. You aren't a credit card person, and that is ok. Credit cards are great for people that use them properly, but the vast majority of people don't.
The biggest argument that didn't really get addressed was budgeting. If you're budgeting your spending, you don't have to worry about overspending on a credit card, because you're treating it like a debit card and credit card purchases count against your budget categories, so you do see the money leaving your budget when you spend.
Yes. Credit cards are even better than debit cards when used properly. I think Jack summed it up really well. If you are super smart, you will win, but most people aren't going to be super smart with their spending. I only use my credit card to buy gas for my car and my groceries for the week. Every few months, I earn enough cash back to pay for a weeks worth of groceries for free. Less than 1 year ago I had no credit score, today I am at a 721 just from using a credit card to buy actual necessities. If you use your credit card foolishly, it will ruin you, if you use it responsibly, it will benefit you.
But if you are winning, who's paying the bill? Just like the lottery they're able to pay out winners because their revenue far outweighs the rewards. And statistically it's the most vulnerable of the population.
Thanks to all these guys for an engaging discussion. This is how disagreements should be - we may not have to agree, but we should be civil and seek to understand.
I had a gold visa card, $5,000 limit, in my twenties. And I found myself always paying the minimum payment; and I’d always owe over $4,000. And the payments were so irritating. Then one day I just paid it all off, chopped the card and canceled it. And I never looked back. Debit cards are just as good. You can use them for hotels and internet purchases. And you can just put in what you need so you don’t need to worry about getting scammed. One of my friends in Dubai had over 13 credit cards. And he was over a 100,000$ in debt. Then in 2008, the banks asked for the money. And he just left the country because he couldn’t pay. Exiled because of debt.
Credit Cards are evil if someone lacks financial discipline which is true for most people. So just like everything else with life and society, most people end up becoming the product rather than taking advantage of a product.
The thing George and Dave dont talk about with credit cards is the security of them. If someone steals my credit card, it is a phone call and 2-3 business days and im back on my feet with no money lost. If someone steals my debit card, Im getting tied up with the bank for weeks or even months and still may not get everything back
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 not sure what you're saying is "not true". I've had my credit card stolen. I got alerted to an $800 charge. I called the credit card company. They shut down the card. Removed the fraudulent charge and I had a new card in hand 3 days later. My former manager had her debit card stolen. They spent $3000 before the bank caught it. They froze her accounts. All of them so she couldn't get money out. She had to fight to get the overdraft fees removed. After Two months of fighting, she finally got back to normal. I've heard horror stories of where people have lost part of their money after it was stolen.
The consumer protections on credit cards are also much better than debit cards. That's the biggest benefit for me. It's easy to dispute charges on a credit card. You can't dispute cash purchases and debit card purchases are a complete headache to dispute.
Suggesting the credit card companies are immoral in the way that they make money, seems like a reasonable argument. However, You’d have to twist yourself into a pretzel to not extend that logic into industries, like pharmaceuticals and insurance. And since the Ramsey company likes to pound their chest about capitalism, I find it interesting where they elect to draw the line.
I think that Ramsey would agree with you. Certain kinds of insurance are necessary (car, home), but he advised against being over insured. And I'm pretty sure he would rail against unethical pharmaceutical practices too, it's just not his area of expertise. He's a finance guy.
Here’s what I do, I never look at my credit card available credit. I equate my credit card available credit to my bi-weekly paycheck. Every cc spend is repaid from bank account so I see my checking being deducted for supermarket spend, utilities, etc. So I don’t wait for statement balance on cc. That way I manage EVERY dollar leaving my checking and can catch budget creep.
For me, the whole credit card game just isn't worth the hassle. Yes you can do it right, be disciplined and redeem a few hundred dollars worth of rewards every year, but I already have so many things to keep track of in my life that's not enough to be worth the effort!
I call this the forbidden argument against credit cards. It is so hard to exercise logical and moral consistency if this is applied as a hard reason to avoid credit cards. It becomes a slippery slope thing. From a religious example, there is the problem of indirect cooperation with evil. I personally like the answers from Trent Horn and Jimmy Akin on this topic. If you dig into it, you realize that it becomes almost impossible to draw a moral line here. I love this topic though. It fascinates me. Thank you for giving me a reference where the forbidden argument was applied.
I'd be very interested to see a study between charge card users vs credit card users in terms of spending. Afteral, you HAVE to pay off charge cards monthly. I wonder their spending habits are more akin to debit card users.
The problem with George's position is that he is not putting any accountability on the borrower. The borrower put themselves in debt but yes some practices can be seen as immoral. However, I love their debates
A credit card is really needed if you are going to rent a car, travel ect. Debit card while traveling and having that stolen or dispute charges is much harder. Should I just travel with a stack of cash? I keep my credit cards(two) in my home safe. They only come out for the above travel though and are paid off as soon as used so I know I am the outlier. As Caleb Hammer would say, I am actually a credit card person
I think they’re perspective is that because it’s so built in to the American infrastructure you simply can’t avoid using them so it’s not much of a choice
Ponzi schemes are “consensual”, by that same definition. A lot of what these companies do is intentionally mislead people and take advantage of them. It’s not as consensual as they’d tell you it is.
Stop saying the credit card company put people into debt. The people put themselves into debt. The company may be giving them the tool, but the person is the one doing it
I will tell you I spend a lot less when I use debit. Nothing is more motivating then watching your bank balance steadily decrease to get your spending under control
He's wrong for saying they are never good under any circumstance. However, his advice is right for about 90% of people, and those are the people he and Dave are creating content for. The other 10% know that credit cards are amazing when used properly.
I don't really see anything as "preying on people" in the business world because it is every man for themselves. Sure theres certain things I wouldn't do if I ran a company, but even saying that I'm not really sure I would uphold that if given certain opportunities. All I can say is paying my credit card bills as a young man got me in my first house without ever having to pay interest. Some of my friends decided to get car payments to get better credit and they effectively lost money to interest. I lost none, and I was able to use that money for a down payment, and then get approved for a mortgage. As agent K in men in black says "a person is smart, people are dumb" and I think that pretty much sums up society. Everyone knows credit card debt is bad nobody pretends like it isn't. But it still happens.
To me, the only way to use a credit card 💳 is as a bridge to savings. If you get a credit card 💳, let's say the spending limit it $1,000.00. You should open a savings account and add money to it until it is $1000.00 once you have that in savings, close the credit card 💳. It will hurt your credit score [lowers available credit] but, the savings account acts as the credit card. Credit is like alcohol. Some people can handle it, other people cannot handle it. So, the most general advice is don't use credit.
Literally everything George owns is run by the same kind of people. Get off your high horse dude. Just because you couldn't manage a credit card doesn't mean we all can't.
@@smileychess yes but the value of the welcome bonus far exceeds the 2-3% fee you pay. If you don't have a welcome bonus, there's no point in doing it.
I don't really pay attention to cash back or points. I treat my credit card the same as a debit card and pay it off every Friday when i get paid. sometimes i get rewards, cool, but the main reason i use it is to protect my money. I have had my debit card hacked too many times and i like the idea of having a stop gap between the money in my account and whatever company i spend with.
I agree it still hurts me spending any money at all I'm extremely cheap. Also the statement of if we had to pay taxes with $100 bills wouldn't hurt as much is complete BS. Last year I saw my account say minus two thousand something odd dollars and it still hurt. Hurt more than it felt good earning $2000
Your debit card has the same protections as a credit card. Almost word for word
Less than 5 minutes into this video, and I can confirm that when I switched from using credit cards to using cash for most, if not all, transactions (minus large purchases like cars, etc.) I was more likely to be very discerning; did i need it, why? good/bad investment. etc. I became a more focused shopper at the grocery store, for example. Also, I hesitate to break larger bills when considering impulse buys.
Exactly. You aren't a credit card person, and that is ok. Credit cards are great for people that use them properly, but the vast majority of people don't.
The biggest argument that didn't really get addressed was budgeting. If you're budgeting your spending, you don't have to worry about overspending on a credit card, because you're treating it like a debit card and credit card purchases count against your budget categories, so you do see the money leaving your budget when you spend.
Yes. Credit cards are even better than debit cards when used properly. I think Jack summed it up really well. If you are super smart, you will win, but most people aren't going to be super smart with their spending. I only use my credit card to buy gas for my car and my groceries for the week. Every few months, I earn enough cash back to pay for a weeks worth of groceries for free. Less than 1 year ago I had no credit score, today I am at a 721 just from using a credit card to buy actual necessities. If you use your credit card foolishly, it will ruin you, if you use it responsibly, it will benefit you.
But if you are winning, who's paying the bill? Just like the lottery they're able to pay out winners because their revenue far outweighs the rewards. And statistically it's the most vulnerable of the population.
Thanks to all these guys for an engaging discussion. This is how disagreements should be - we may not have to agree, but we should be civil and seek to understand.
I had a gold visa card, $5,000 limit, in my twenties. And I found myself always paying the minimum payment; and I’d always owe over $4,000. And the payments were so irritating. Then one day I just paid it all off, chopped the card and canceled it. And I never looked back. Debit cards are just as good. You can use them for hotels and internet purchases. And you can just put in what you need so you don’t need to worry about getting scammed. One of my friends in Dubai had over 13 credit cards. And he was over a 100,000$ in debt. Then in 2008, the banks asked for the money. And he just left the country because he couldn’t pay. Exiled because of debt.
If all the terms and conditions are laid out right in front of you and you still get in debt. You are the only one to blame.
Credit Cards are evil if someone lacks financial discipline which is true for most people. So just like everything else with life and society, most people end up becoming the product rather than taking advantage of a product.
This popped up in suggested videos... great conversation. But--more importantly--where did you get those long-boi lights?! I love those.
The thing George and Dave dont talk about with credit cards is the security of them. If someone steals my credit card, it is a phone call and 2-3 business days and im back on my feet with no money lost. If someone steals my debit card, Im getting tied up with the bank for weeks or even months and still may not get everything back
Because it's not true. In the real world, the bank freezes the account for months in both cases.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508 not sure what you're saying is "not true". I've had my credit card stolen. I got alerted to an $800 charge. I called the credit card company. They shut down the card. Removed the fraudulent charge and I had a new card in hand 3 days later. My former manager had her debit card stolen. They spent $3000 before the bank caught it. They froze her accounts. All of them so she couldn't get money out. She had to fight to get the overdraft fees removed. After Two months of fighting, she finally got back to normal. I've heard horror stories of where people have lost part of their money after it was stolen.
@@amireallythatgrumpy6508- If your credit card is stolen, the bank doesn’t freeze your checking account.
They do. @@smileychess
The consumer protections on credit cards are also much better than debit cards. That's the biggest benefit for me. It's easy to dispute charges on a credit card. You can't dispute cash purchases and debit card purchases are a complete headache to dispute.
Suggesting the credit card companies are immoral in the way that they make money, seems like a reasonable argument. However, You’d have to twist yourself into a pretzel to not extend that logic into industries, like pharmaceuticals and insurance. And since the Ramsey company likes to pound their chest about capitalism, I find it interesting where they elect to draw the line.
I think that Ramsey would agree with you. Certain kinds of insurance are necessary (car, home), but he advised against being over insured. And I'm pretty sure he would rail against unethical pharmaceutical practices too, it's just not his area of expertise. He's a finance guy.
Here’s what I do, I never look at my credit card available credit. I equate my credit card available credit to my bi-weekly paycheck. Every cc spend is repaid from bank account so I see my checking being deducted for supermarket spend, utilities, etc. So I don’t wait for statement balance on cc. That way I manage EVERY dollar leaving my checking and can catch budget creep.
How is a credit card company amoral? Greedy, immature people who lack self control are the ones at fault.
For me, the whole credit card game just isn't worth the hassle. Yes you can do it right, be disciplined and redeem a few hundred dollars worth of rewards every year, but I already have so many things to keep track of in my life that's not enough to be worth the effort!
I love the irony that, when I clicked on this video, an American Express Card ad played before the video started. LOL
I call this the forbidden argument against credit cards. It is so hard to exercise logical and moral consistency if this is applied as a hard reason to avoid credit cards. It becomes a slippery slope thing.
From a religious example, there is the problem of indirect cooperation with evil. I personally like the answers from Trent Horn and Jimmy Akin on this topic. If you dig into it, you realize that it becomes almost impossible to draw a moral line here.
I love this topic though. It fascinates me. Thank you for giving me a reference where the forbidden argument was applied.
5:30 I legitimately need to purchase a new outfit.
😂
I'd be very interested to see a study between charge card users vs credit card users in terms of spending. Afteral, you HAVE to pay off charge cards monthly. I wonder their spending habits are more akin to debit card users.
The problem with George's position is that he is not putting any accountability on the borrower. The borrower put themselves in debt but yes some practices can be seen as immoral. However, I love their debates
"cause people to go into debt.." yeah.. because they put a gun to my head.
A credit card is really needed if you are going to rent a car, travel ect. Debit card while traveling and having that stolen or dispute charges is much harder. Should I just travel with a stack of cash?
I keep my credit cards(two) in my home safe. They only come out for the above travel though and are paid off as soon as used so I know I am the outlier. As Caleb Hammer would say, I am actually a credit card person
It’s hard to claim something that is 100% consensual is “evil”. That’s the beauty of free markets.
Except the repackaging of poorly rated mortgage securities into prime mortgage securities. That would be considered 100% greed evil.
I think they’re perspective is that because it’s so built in to the American infrastructure you simply can’t avoid using them so it’s not much of a choice
Ponzi schemes are “consensual”, by that same definition.
A lot of what these companies do is intentionally mislead people and take advantage of them. It’s not as consensual as they’d tell you it is.
So is heroin not evil?
@@davidpatterson9770 I would call that fraud if it is not clearly laid out for the buyer
A credit card is a form of payment....that is all I think it is.
Stop saying the credit card company put people into debt. The people put themselves into debt. The company may be giving them the tool, but the person is the one doing it
I will tell you I spend a lot less when I use debit. Nothing is more motivating then watching your bank balance steadily decrease to get your spending under control
I'm curious as to how many folks would stop using cards if you asked them if they'd take a 20% compounding loan that has no set end date.
George is wrong on credit cards. He knows it but he has to hold the line for Daddy Dave.
He's wrong for saying they are never good under any circumstance. However, his advice is right for about 90% of people, and those are the people he and Dave are creating content for. The other 10% know that credit cards are amazing when used properly.
Ahh yes you have been trained by the banks well done.
@Billman8686 you must be one of those people who is too irresponsible to have a credit card. 🤣
There's a name for those people. They are called "Americans". @@jloop_2008
I don't really see anything as "preying on people" in the business world because it is every man for themselves. Sure theres certain things I wouldn't do if I ran a company, but even saying that I'm not really sure I would uphold that if given certain opportunities. All I can say is paying my credit card bills as a young man got me in my first house without ever having to pay interest. Some of my friends decided to get car payments to get better credit and they effectively lost money to interest. I lost none, and I was able to use that money for a down payment, and then get approved for a mortgage. As agent K in men in black says "a person is smart, people are dumb" and I think that pretty much sums up society. Everyone knows credit card debt is bad nobody pretends like it isn't. But it still happens.
The cash back is great for my investment account. I was spending the money anyways.
I used to date Sally Mae in high school
Rules and regulations are necessary to keep capitalism at bay.
Yes, all usury (any interest on debt) should be banned for example.
To me, the only way to use a credit card 💳 is as a bridge to savings.
If you get a credit card 💳, let's say the spending limit it $1,000.00. You should open a savings account and add money to it until it is $1000.00 once you have that in savings, close the credit card 💳.
It will hurt your credit score [lowers available credit] but, the savings account acts as the credit card.
Credit is like alcohol. Some people can handle it, other people cannot handle it. So, the most general advice is don't use credit.
Literally everything George owns is run by the same kind of people. Get off your high horse dude. Just because you couldn't manage a credit card doesn't mean we all can't.
9:22 George doesn't know you can fulfill welcome offers by paying taxes.
I never even considered this. Wouldn’t the IRS charge a fee to use credit card to pay taxes?
@@smileychess yes but the value of the welcome bonus far exceeds the 2-3% fee you pay. If you don't have a welcome bonus, there's no point in doing it.
@@Yourpolice69 - I will be sure to look into this. I have a $8,500 tax payment scheduled for tomorrow!