Reaction / Commentary: Blades That Wouldn't KEAL (Forged in Fire)
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2021
- Sometimes swords and other weapons on Forged in Fire break or otherwise fail, and occasionally people wonder if it was really just the blade or it might have been improperly used. I've even seen some comments that criticized Doug Marcaida harshly, to the point of claiming that he doesn't know how to use swords at all. Which I find very unreasonable, although somewhat understandable at first glance.
So here is my opinion on some of those catastrophic failures. Doug definitely knows what he's doing, he is a remarkably skilled and experienced martial artist. Granted, mainly in knife fighting and Kali. As far as I know he hasn't practiced HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts), but that doesn't mean he can't cut with a European sword.
In this video I take a closer look at the slowmo footage from the show and try to gauge how good the edge alignment and overall cutting mechanics are. As usual, I'm not claiming to be a great expert or some kind of sword master. My perspective is based on my personal experience of 5+ years of HEMA practice (plus a few years before joining a school) and over 10 years of occasional and semi-regular test cutting with a wide variety of swords.
The video I'm reacting to: • Forged in Fire: 4 EPIC...
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Развлечения
Doug: "The good news is that your blade will kill. The bad news is that it will kill due to blunt force trauma."
Lol, awesome.
Keel
@@eelchiong6709 keal* keep everyone alive
@@CrankyPants05
You mean heel, oops, heal?
@@eelchiong6709 no, he explains it in an episode it's an acronym keal stands for keep everyone alive
If the blade doesn't keal...
The pommel *weal
The pommel weel
It's just a flesh wound
The pommel weal
@@markbyrd7710 Wheel pommels wheel keel u!!
If you end him rightly
its refreshing to see someone else who doesnt hyper criticise him
Though on the comment of consistency he is testing the blades for agility and way it feels (combat effectiveness) when doing his test, so though his starting position reduces consistency he does the cuts very close to same for each blade.
Arguing a bit with the comments at the video, I felt I was the only one, who took any closer look.
@@Notmyname1593 i did too for a bit when i came across it a month ago. who knew so many master swordsmen out there
@@BowfortheMad right? We had so many experts on everything in hiding. Without RUclips, we wouldn’t have found them. We are blessed. Stay blessed
Simping sucks though. Honestly it makes no sense that they don't just use a machine? The outcome on the competition is based on how well the guy will perform, and not how well the blades were made. Especially when they are similar in quality as Skall points out. So Skall knows how huge of an issue that is, but doesn't want to criticize the guy... Even though it's a huge issue...And he admits it several times...
He does point out when the grip is bad. Even the best trained swordsman would have difficulty using a blade with a bad grip. Son's even gone so far as to say the blade wasn't that bad, but the grip was horrible.
I mean people give Doug shit but I've seen in the show him say hey that cut was bad but it was my fault not the swords before. I've seen multiple judges do that. We are also assuming that the problem with the edge alignment must be his fault. Aerodynamically there could be a fault in the blade which causes it to twist as its cutting through the air. One the user COULD account for if they knew it was there but would be rather hard to account for if you didn't
@@WorldWearyAngel very good point. I’ve heard that most swordsmen didn’t like getting new blades very often because of this
And let's not forget, even if you have the worst possible edge alignment; the sword should not be permanently bent or even shatter.
It doesn't matter if the cut was bad - if it breaks, it's not good.
They are testing the sword, not the blade. If it’s got a bad “feel” or shocks the hand you aren’t going to follow through as well.
It’s like democracy, the worst form of government. Except for all those other forms. Using a trained swordsman to swing it is a very bad idea. Except every other method is far worse.
Weapon Handling is an important stat for every weapon, some people seem to forget that.
Swinging something that has double the weight it should have, with a bad grip and balance will lead to bad form.
Remember that Doug cut a carcass in half with a single strike several times in the show with good quality weapons. You won't do that if you're not trained.
Well you know, "a single stain can be very noticeable in a sea of white". People tend to take note more on the bad part and easily forget all the previous good parts, no matter how many the good part were.
The dudes a world renowned martial artist and weapons expert, so yeah he's had training. Lol
@@spearsage And the fact to notice the bad in people and point it out makes the ego feel better
I've noticed when Doug makes a simple strike vs a strike with a draw, the cut is always better, deeper, more efficient with the draw. Could that be the difference in the blade deformation? ie striking while drawing?
@@sethhowerton1489 what weapons is he an expert in?
I'd actually like to see skall as a judge or guest at this show haha
Who in their right mind wouldn’t?
We gotta have Skall, Matt Easton, and maybe...Tobias Capwell??
@@postacorona6746 unfortunately, they don't have the right mind
@@LeonM4c And Shadiversity?
@@foolslayer9416 oh yes
Doug Marcaida sees an overturned sailboat: "It will keel..."
Doug would appreciate that joke..
🤣🤢🤮
Ahahahaa
well done
Finally someone who knows how to do frame by frame on youtube and doesn't try to pause the video for 20minutes
How do you frame by frame
@@thedan3205 Pause the video and press , or .
Omg wtf
@@sploofmcsterra4786 wtf what?
@@arandomperson9116 the frame by frame consumed him
"we're not robots , it's not going to be hundred percent laser precision accuracy"
Also Skal : **can do exactly the same cut twice**
Hey, I bet a robot could tell you 50 different inconsistencies between my two cuts. :)
@@Skallagrim as a robot , I can say this without doubt , your cuts are identical.
@@Skallagrim as a caracter from Dark Souls, my cuts are always the same and yours are perfect good sir! \[Ť]/
A Robot would find things as: on your second cut the blade was 0,5 degrees off of the angle of the cut before
ruclips.net/video/O3XyDLbaUmU/видео.html something like this?
It's very satisfying that you are not just critisizing or roasting but presenting high quality opinion
In Skal we trust.
Skal is amazing for the fact that he expresses opinion fairly and its 100% willing to change that opinion. Basically, he doesnt have overbearing ego and is just a cool dude
@@taytay1597 Scal is my hero personality. Somehow I believe every canadian is at least to some extent like him. I hope noone proves me wrong
Agreed
So I have watched almost all the episodes of Forged in fire and I can say Doug is more consistent than I have seen. I think sometimes he struggles a little with 2 handed swords as some smiths are not always great at getting the weight down on the swords. But universally Doug is good at keeping the test pretty consistent across all blades with reasonable amounts of human error.
Would you recommend
Skal: We're not robots, you can't get laser precision.
Me: RIP Grant Imahara
Oof, i almost forgot he passed away. Guy was brilliant and loved his robots.
Yeah that was pretty much my reaction too. Like "If Grant Imahara was testing these, he'd have built a robot to make sure they had the right consistency"
@@shadowblade5656 IIRC, he did build a sword swinging robot at one point.
@@ILikeTheThingsIDo They did. Was for the myth of being able to catch a sword.
@@shadowblade5656 oh my god, I didn't realize he was dead! I learned that here :( RIP
I would like more like this please.
same
Indeed
Yes!
*order is placed*
Please sir I want more!
I mean, let's be real. A well-made sword shouldn't bend like that just because you slapped it against a piece of meat with improper edge alignment. That thing was either way too heavy or way too soft. It should just flex or maybe bounce off.
Exactly! He might not be performing perfect cuts, but those swords were going to fail no matter what.
Yea its like skalls said before, when you pick up something thats very well made thw difference is noticable. Like I do cutting with katanas and when I finally onvested in a high quality one vs whatever 200-300 thing I could find on amazon it was like how Skall said in the principe review that the sword actually will let you get away with mistakes bc of how well made it is
So your basis of opinion? Do you really think that all metal stays stiff and rigid? In the forging process they're stretching the metal to achieve its length for a 5mm thickness, thinner it becomes the more flex it has. and were not talking about 316 grade stainless.
where did anyone say metal should be rigid? if you are addressing the op in the bottom half he specifically stated that it should flex and bounce not be bent
Congrats. You watched a near two minutes of the video.
Watching that smith stepping on his claidheam mor reminds me of ancient Roman authors talking about their experiences fighting the Celts, how they would stop fighting for a second and stomp their sword blade straight after it took a bend from impact with a shield or a scooped cut.
wow you caught that too?
Yes, I remember reading about that. Of course, given today's steel vs. 2000 years ago, I'd expect less bending... :-)
@@arthurchadwell9267 Not steel, probably not even iron. Probably bronze swords.
@@535phobos You seriously think the ancient Romans were in the fucking Bronze Age?
@@ProfX501 The Romans were Iron Age. Which means, not a lot of steel, and its also not improbable that other cultures still used a lot of bronze. (The early Romans had a lot of Bronze armor, if I am not mistaken)
I love that Skal is making informed and non malicious commentary. It's too often that people make nasty comments without giving any "academic" information
My katzbalger was the one with the “razor-sharp” edge. 😁 I wouldn’t describe it as razor sharp, but it shaved hair cleanly off my arm when I was finished making it. Thanks for the honest look at the show, Skallagrim!
What are the time constraints on the makers? It seems like they all do rush jobs the few times I've seen the show. Especially with tempering and normalizing the steel. They make it seem like quenching is a final step 🤦♂️
@@blairbuskirk5460 The time limits are definitely the most difficult aspect of the competition. They have changed parameters since I was on, giving competitors even less time to complete their challenges. I made sure to budget time for normalization, some don't or run into issues that make it where they don't have the time to be able to. They do mention tempering now (after not doing so during the first several seasons, leading to some people thinking that the blades were never tempered), but I don't think I've seen them show the process or explain it. When I was on, we had 45 hours in which to build the final weapon, spread out over five days. I think they've reduced that by 10 hours now. There is a lot of footage shot that never makes it into the show, so you don't necessarily get to see boring stuff like normalizing. I actually have a video on my channel with me and my buddy Tobin Nieto, who was the winner of Season 2, Episode 8, talking about our experiences on the show.
My guy I believe you just described the definition of razor-sharp
@@alexandero9936 I get what you're saying, but there is a big difference between an edge that will cleanly shave hair off your arm or leg and an edge that will comfortably shave your face. Before I grew my beard out, I did shave my face with a blade I made a few times as an experiment. The thicker beard hairs and the more sensitive skin of your face means that an average hair-shaving blade isn't going to make shaving your face with it a fun experience. Razor-making is a specialized art, for sure. :)
@@Helmforge Razor sharp means it is as sharp as a razor blade, a razor blade is supposed to be able to shave hair, it may not be the sharpest but it is razor-sharp
I like when you say it’s less about technique than consistency. Even historically not many sword users were masters and even then mistakes happen and edge alignment won’t be perfect or great. Realistically the tests are fine. And he’s consistent giving no bias to the other swords.
Thats so true. Most warrior never really got formal training during history, or very little when they had go to war.
@@Debilinside to also be fair though, many soldiers in antiquity were never issued swords. They often fought with spears, polearms, halberds and the like. They would've been given a dagger or a small warhammer with a piercing side for closer combat most of the time.
@@norlanderduwallis9074 Yeah thats also true. But even at later period with professional armies I dont think the training was focused on sword fighting. I think warfare has many more aspect than simply how good are your soldiers in close combat.
Good example are the romans. Most of their training was marching, discipline, how to build their camps, handle equipment, work with other soldiers etc. Yes, absolutely they trained with the gladius, but not to a degree most people would think.
@Holden Mcgroine so no actual weapon training? or very little?
@@Debilinside good to see we have similar minds lol
The most impressive thing about the second round of Claymores was, that that Claymore bend 90 degrees and came back to true. Impressive piece of Blacksmithing, even though it wasn't that effective as a weapon.
Well claymores were effective but only against unarmoured opponents. If the dude your cutting has plate then you're pretty much dead. Lol
@@imbangmaynn5705 Even against unarmored opponents, they got shields. If your opponent is smart enough to close in on you with the shield and knock you down welp.
I mean, I wouldn’t want to get hit with a 3+lb hunk of steel that was not perfectly crafted lol
A weapon still remains a weapon even with some inconsistencies
Upon researching the martial art prowess and blade expertise that Doug has accrued over the years, I’d say he knows what he’s doing.
its blatant that he is waaaayyy more comfortable with knives as skall said, and everyone giving him flak need to realise that no one is a master in everything, a skilled longsword user probably wont be as skilled with karambit combat. Obviously it would be a little bit ridiculous to have a new person every time they switch weapon type. And his abilities i would say are adequate even if they aren't perfect.
Even with knives he’s a damn fake, the entirety of his “martial arts knowledge” is stupid, fake, bullshit...
I think he does a good enough job i mean the thing is he's consistent which is a plus to me. I mean go outside and swing a sword at something the same way almost perfectly, its pretty tough without the proper trainingb
I am a master of everything! Well, I have equal skill in everything...ok so that's basically 0 skill, but it's everything! ☺
@@UncleFuncle69 I highly disagree. From what I've seen his stuff in Filipino martial arts seems really straight forward and effective. Sure some of the flips and stuff with the karambit are very flashy, but he no where near the fake martial arts that you can find online where people fall over at the mere sight of the "Master". It really does seem like you can protect yourself with the way he does things. And yeah he is pretty damn consistent when it comes to cutting, like they have done about 8 seasons of the show and there are only a few cuts where he's truly messed up his edge alignment. That and it's a new completely unique weapon everytime made by random smiths who are probably making these things for the first time. To cut consistently with these constantly changing variables is really impressive
I think that he definitely has skill with knives. Far more than I ever will but he clearly has less experience with swords and similar weapons and as a result probably shouldn't be the judge and tester of a sword making contest.
Forged in Fire to me always just seems like a bunch of people who know a lot about knives talking about swords as if they are knives
Yeah, and most of the tests are stupid and make no sense.
So fucking annoying
Oh look an elf waifu
it's just big TV trying to be a YT channel....and failing....
the martial artist might be good but being associated with big TV clowns kinda diminishes his credibility, History Channel is a corporate entity, they're likely buying cheap ass knock offs and everyone they've got there is paid for the "entertainment" it's a reality show, it's scripted lol everything on TV is scripted
This is true. Majority of us are knife makers. Tomkin Forge, another FIF competitor, he makes beautiful swords!
I guess making a sword and never testing its cutting ability would be like designing a gun and never firing a round.
It could look amazing, look authentic, but be totally useless or even a danger to the user.
One other reason it's better for a sword to bend than to break is breaks can create shrapnel as well as the disconnected blade section coming back at you. It's one reason I stay the hell away from cheap swords.
A lot of the smiths outright state that they have never made a sword sized blade when presented with the final challenge, and many have to modify their existing forge.
Most of them are primarily knife makers.
I’ve never forged any weapons before, but I’d think that some of the qualities that make for a good knife make for a poor sword.
I love Forged in Fire. There was one episode he said, "This sword will KEAL... my hand."
I love Doug; I have never seen a person so consistently and specifically thrilled to have a deadly weapon in his hands.
I love him for the exact same reason, he is always smiling when it's his turn to shine
Pretty sure that anyone that has cut a pig in half with one swing probably isn't that bad at using a sword.
It is a show, so presentation is considered. The purpose of the kill test is to simulate a warrior going in and just attacking a target with a sword, it's not a precision "I wanna know exactly how sharp this sword is" test, it's a "can this sword kill" test. It is a KILL test. The Sharpness test is generally more precise.
And Doug doesn't just swing ONCE and that's your test, he goes AT that pig (unless the sword can cut through the whole damn thing on the first swing which HAS happened and is AWESOME) and the ENTIRE test and the BEST cuts are all considered. There's MULTIPLE judges and they take everything into account. Two swords can be SO good that it comes down to the SMALLEST things, such as one's handle was a bit more comfortable or one is better weighted so it feels better to use. Aside from bursting blades, the thing i've seen send most people home is actually the handle.
You've really got to remember the prize is ten THOUSAND dollars, so effectively they're asking you for your 10 thousand dollar sword. It shouldn't matter if i'm a little bit wrong in swinging it, why is this 10 thousand dollar sword bending like a straw or snapping like a twig? I've seen the kind of punishment they put these blades through, if it breaks on the kill test, it's THE SWORD, 100%. Doug has never swung a sword at a pig and broken a sword that would totally have survived their durability test. When they're LITERALLY smashing your sword against anchors and literally everything else you shouldn't swing a sword at, it breaking at the pig is just a quick execution.
@@haku8135 ok
I mean, people are quick to blame Doug, not realizing the swordmaker could have may not have everything perfect, and even a small balance issue in something like a Claymore is gonna fuck your swing up.
@@Bl4ckD0g It just really stupefies me that people GENUINELY seem to think they break swords on purpose in this test just for entertainment.
When the very next test they do on these swords, IS TRYING TO BREAK THEM. Swords have made it through all 3 tests with NO damage, but people ignore facts inconvenient to their biases.
@@haku8135 well i have recently watched 6 seasons of this show ,and I'm pretty sure that some fails in first round are staged ,and sometimes it's happening in third round.
“Introduce deviations” - oh no, the missile won’t know where it is :(
But it will work out where it isnt so its fine
It's fine, it knows where it isn't.
But it knows where it isn't. This it knows where it is.
But what if it can't discern where it is from where it isn't?
@@mateuszpadula6089 it will figure out where it was and where it wasn't
I like to think every potential seat in your house has a nearby blade just in case you need a visual aid when explaining something. Anything, really, I'd listen to you explain a filtration system if you were waving a sword at me.
Like during dinner, speaking about a completely different topic, but using a sword metaphor and an actual sword to explain his point
There are a lot of fat, chunky handles on this show, so that's not going to help edge alignment
I remember binge watching the show and in season 3 im like HOW THE HELL ARE PEOPLE NOT BEING ANAL ABOUT THEIR HANDLES BY NOW?!?!
I think it's the time limits. Regardless of the smith's skill, the show is kind about making blades in a hurry
Especially with the one-handed swords, the length is killing me.. They are soo often way to long, past the point of where the pommel can cradle your hand and give you control. That coupled with the weight of some the chunky bastards the smiths make.. Very little control.
Oh, and the round axe handles.. Which tells me that the maker apparently never held a regular axe before.
@@AnimalMotha more likely they did and just paid no attention to the handle, or just used a pre-made dowel or something to save time
@@AnimalMotha A majority of these people are actually KNIFE makers, and you hear "i've never made a sword this long before" a LOT. That being said, handles DO tend to send people home almost as much as faulty blades. They say that a lot too, the judges i mean. If your blade is good, the handle will probably send you home.
The time limit for making the knives can REALLY screw some of them over regarding the handles, and if the blade doesn't get made pretty much perfectly then the extra time they spend on that can really damage how refined their handles end up. Some people literally just run out of time and can only turn in LITERAL blocks of wood attached to the blade, NO sanding done at all.
But NONE of them just give up, which you really need to respect. Every single one of them says "I'm gonna turn in SOMETHING." and they've turned in just lumps of steel that have been hammered a bit into what could eventually be a knife shape.
Finally, people keep criticizing him like they just picked some random dude off the street without properly reviewing the video, he never bashed the swords/blades on the flat side, most of the time he did it properly and the blade turned on impact cause the blade didn't manage to cut surface of whatever they were using it on. In most occasions that the edge allignment was off there was a good reason like a very round handle or the blade curving in a weird way in the first place.
Yeah, it's the usual problem... Keyboard warriors know enough to think they're great critics, but not enough to realize how much they don't know.
@@Skallagrim Guilty. I just realized how difficult this really is when I tried starting cutting waterbottles with my katana from Swords of Northshire and couldn't even get them to leak... no seriously, I barely scratched them XD
This shit is harder than it looks... a lot >.>
For real. Doug and the judges will even comment on how heavy, unruly, or how off a weapon feels often. If the weapon is well made it shouldnt roll or delflect like that dud to having good ergonomics and balance and if its the fault of the wielder then a good weapon should ALSO be forgiving and not bend or snap from a mistake.
They don't show it, but I love that he obviously develops a "choreography" using the sample weapon; trying to figure out how to best use a weapon he's likely never even seen before. At the same time; all these contestant weapons, he is picking up for the first time ever. I bought a heavy knife and found the handle very disappointing, thick and awkward. Now it's my favorite and I use it for Search and Rescue. Took time to get the "feel" of it.
@@Jonahch2v9 Just jumping into say- Thank you for doing S&R. You guys do not get anywhere near enough recognition for the work you do- or some of the things you have to deal with.
I appreciated this, I watch FiF but never slowed down the shots so it generally appeared that Doug was just swinging a sword like a baseball bat and fucking the edge alignment up. I still feel like having a HEMA expert for some of the really large European weapons would be a good move, Doug's martial arts focus is Escrima/Kali so he's most experienced with knives and such up to about 18" long, as I understand their training. No disrespect to the man though, he's a master in his form.
Watching him move, I guessed he was an Escrimador.
@arthur chadwell to be fair he could be throwing the competition in one way or the other. That could explain the inconsistencies
3:04 Imagine you're just driving around and you see a medieval battle going on at the middle school tennis court.
I want tickets
I'm happy you did this Skal. I initially liked this show, but seeing all the push back online about his form discouraged me from picking it up again. Thanks for going through it frame by frame and giving us your opinion.
skeal
It's also good to keep in mind that a lot of the people pretend they know what they're talking about when criticizing things like swordsmanship lol. They see people saying he's testing it poorly, and without knowing any better themselves, start parroting the sentiment that he's messing it up. He could be "better" but so can nearly anyone and what he does is more than adequate in my opinion.
If you like it, why would you let online opinion sway you from watching it? Not everything, or anything at all, that you watch has to be perfect. Aside from that, Forged in fire is fun and the competition is really respectful, which I find refreshing to see instead of the lame trash talks. Anyway, my 0.02.
Its a buncha neckbeard armchair experts who think because they watched a couple youtube videos it makes them smarter then actual experts in these fields. I wouldn't pay them too much mind.
It's a really good show, if you like knife and sword forging, watching people use ALL their skills to problem solve and work through catastrophe, then keep watching the show.
The kill test isn't ABOUT flawless form and CUTTING, that's the CUTTING test they do later, and is quite a bit more "formal" or "precise" whichever you'd prefer. A little flare for the audience to make it look more entertaining is added there too, but in the cutting test they GET the results they want. Can these swords cut? Which sword cuts better? He's plenty consistent in that test, and he's even pretty damn consistent in the kill test.
The kill test is simulating for example, me and you. If the two of us picked up a sword, can we just go and started swinging at mother fuckers? Are these swords good enough that random people can pick them up and start cutting bitches down to size? With a sword that they're paying 10,000 dollars for, it should NOT break regardless of Doug's edge alignment. He SHOULD be able to literally slap that pig with the side of the blade and walk away with a straight sword. THAT is what they're testing for, and if the sword breaks PERIOD against the PIG, it's FUCKED if they'd put it against ANY of the shit they slam those things against in the durability test. They are MERCILESS in those. I had NO IDEA how fucking badass a sword could be until I saw them just swinging swords at anchors and barrels and everything else you could take one look at and say "no don't swing a sword against THAT"
It makes me look at youtube videos of someone like swinging a sword and it breaking and hurting someone and going "yeah that sword was crap, it wasn't your fault, you should buy a better one" cause DAMN a good sword stays together.
To everyone still reaming Doug, these are supposed to be weapons of war, if in a tense and confusing life or death situation your edge alignment isn't perfect (which is very likely to happen mind you) your blade breaks, that's on the blade, because that will leave you stranded for dead. Battle would not be a clean test scenario so these slight inaccuracies make it a far better test in my opinion, it's far more realistic.
It isn't so much about each test in isolation, as it is the competitive nature of the show. You are right in saying that a sword should be able to function with less than perfect technique, but when his technique is near perfect in some tests and a bit sloppy in others, it can unfairly bias to overall competition for/against one competitor. That's why I prefer the tests he did with the one handed swords, where he cut 2-3 times vs the two handers, where you are completely at the mercy of his one swing.
But that's not fair in 1v1 quality testing of the blade. Same as in a battle situation if someone kills you with a sword when you're unarmed it'll be acceptable, but in a duel that would be cheating (unless he himself unarms you in the same duel).
Even if your form is perfect in the split second it takes for your blade to land the target might have moved.
Edge alignment is pretty easy to keep up for a trained fighter. It's a consequence of all the moves and stances you learn. It's unlikely for any fighter to e.g. accidentally hit with the flat albeit it happens.
However when the handle starts to turn in your hand on impact it does not matter how trained you are, the weapon is just shit then.
Except this isn’t shot during a war buddy. It’s a static target.
4:35 considering he did bad edge alligment 2 times with each sword, it makes you think, maybe he did it on porpouse. you will end up having bad edge aligments in real combat sometimes, so it is not bad idea to test it and the sword should resist some bad edge aligment
Doug is pretty consistent and I would argue that the slight imperfections make it a more thorough test as in a fight conditions will not be perfect and so long as the imperfections are applied evenly to both weapons it is still a fair test.
To be honest my major gripe with the show is that they will find an "exotic" weapon from somewhere, design an entire show around producing and testing them but don't take the 60 seconds research to learn how to pronounce the name correctly.
Rocketfist McDangerpants Thank you! I found this frustrating a number of times. I also would’ve liked them to give more history of the weapons they were creating, though I’d imagine they’d make a hash of that as well..
Hey, it is the history channel, so who does care about the history of the weapons? ;)
@@Seelenschmiede At least the dont brabble about weird alien stuff in this format.
@@Seelenschmiede Smithsonian Channel? I know they're guilty of their own lazyness but they still seem to care more.
Yes! This👆👆👆
You should be a judge at this show
Seconded
that name + pfp is a legendary combination sir.
\[Ť]/
Absolutely!
\[T]/
The confused reactions of the participants when the swords bend and broke were so gold.
i notice how the soft or dull blades usually generally look softer and more smooth. And the sharp blades have a more sharp and heavier look.
I would like skall to debunk some episodes of the deadliest warrior show. The show itself was pretty fun but I remember that many of the historical facts were completely made out and some tests and weapon comparisons were kinda ridiculous.
I watched several episodes of that show. It was pseudo-scientific garbage, though entertaining. I distinctly remember that the winner would always be the "more American" contestants. If both were "equally American" or "equally non-American", the winner would be the one most idealised or most mythologised by Americans. There might be exceptions, since I haven't watched ALL episodes, but that's what I remember from those I did watch.
Some of the match-ups didn't really make sense either. Spartan vs. Ninja? Spartans were ancient battlefield warriors whose primary advantage was fighting as a unit. Ninja were feudal spies and assassins who favored stealth. Determining which had the advantage would depend largely on the circumstances.
@@John.Not-Jack.Daniels Ah, yes, you're correct!! Circumstances and conditions were never taken into account, it was always a silly and reductive "which is best" premise. That is essentially never a good approach when comparing warriors.
@@maximsavage I do remember an episode about Spetnaz vs SWAT if I'm correct. In the "tests" the Spetnaz won all or mostly all. Like you said, funny, but no "realistic"
@@John.Not-Jack.Daniels ninja weren't even warriors for that matter.
Keyboard warriors: Reeeeeeeee!!! Shall! Skaaaaall! This guys is terrible with swords! Smite him!!!
Skall: You guys are over reacting again. Chill.
@Vinnie P hard enough to keep dew chuggers from picking one up.
@Vinnie P not sure if you're an AOTP fan or a Tupac fan or both, but (controversial opinion) every time I hear Tupac I imagine him taking a shit, because the way he emphasizes certain words at the end of lines is exactly how a lot of people sounds when pushing put a poop and trying to talk on the phone. Same goes for Vinny Paz.
@Vinnie P totally unrelated... Is it just me or does Action Bronson sound way too much like Ghostface Killah?
@Vinnie P Just by your comment alone I can tell you know little to nothing about how blades work. Thanks for the chuckle though.
@@thomasjames7568 please stfu
I still love Forged in Fire. They gave some love to a personal favorite sword of mine, the Khanda.
Loved watching you break it down frame by frame. Thanks for your contributions to the community!
Doug have tried blacksmithing to get himself in the shoes of the competitors
So, he should try HEMA as well so he can properly test European swords.
What does he train? Mostly knife fighting especially with a karambit. That is not a skill which allows you to handle a Zweihänder. I have trained wing chung for many years, also with butterfly swords, but when i first swung a greatsword i failed miserably...
Love your username!
@@parryhotter4283 Doug trains in escrima kali, or kali in its entirety. He teaches it as well. Its a filipino martial art where they use a single or double stick or karambit. Now its not limited to that, there are kali swords that have been found in history. Skall even tested a reproductions of a few filipino weapons used in escrima arnis/escrima kali. Its super interesting and I greatly suggest looking it up. Hope this answers your question🤙🏻🤙🏻
@@parryhotter4283 Kerambit is a show-up shit you see him using on TV. He does not do this in real. Its only for the pupose of earning money.
@@phantomwarhead8068 it does. Im just saying that from my experiences a Zweihänder is not comparable to most martial arts weapon so that would explain the bad edge alignment.
As a guy who makes robots for a living, I can tell you you're definitely giving them too much credit.
You're just not using enough loc-tite if your structural parts and fasteners are wandering, splurge, use the red stuff. What's the worst that can happen?
What about a robot built by a robot?
A poor craftsman blames his tools.
@@Esron13 That adage doesn't work when your tools are software.
@@ootdega
Unless you somehow got really bad software
Appreciate this video. I really like Forged in Fire and its nice to see someone (you) who knows what they're talking about, offering some more insight into these weapons.
Kinda want him to do a reaction to the durability tests, just to see how uncomfortable he gets
Skall: We're not robots
Me: Sounds like something a robot would say
Yes, please keep the format skall. Ill be looking forward to it.
This is a great combination, your commentary is greatly appreciated and offering a new medium in which to see something that was already interesting to me. More please :)
Even the most gorgeous woman can look like a literal troll if you pause a video at the right moment. That's life.
He's an excellent swordsman.
thanks for this! A lot of people criticize Doug but he is an experienced martial artist and although not a HEMA nerd he knows how to friggin cut...people act like there is a secret behind these things lol
Yea people act like They can do it better
I feel like he somewhat consistency has the blade angled *ever so slightly* more down that he should (don't get me wrong he's a hell of a lot better than a rank amateur cutter like me :D ), and one of the comments says he comes from stickfighting so I would assume thats the reason why.
But thats talking about *really* precise, mathematically perfect cuts. Someone who *really* trians sword cutting can do that consistently to get the absolute most out f a weapon, but its not exactly realistic for average use.
If a sword bounces off a waistcoat without leaving a mark, or bends in half or shatters because the edge alignment wasn't *perfect*?
The by definition its a shitty sword that couldn't be used in an actual fight. Hell you can have the best edge alignment in the world in testing and everything might get thrown off from the simple fact of having a *moving target*
I agree, but isn't the point of a hanging target just to show the brute force efficacy, I don't think any weapons were really known to deal clean kills in actual combat but many weapons can show impressive cutting power on prisoners or in this case pigs.
@@IrvineTheHunter So you mean him cutting living pigs that are running around to get a combat efficiency test? I`m no PETA activist but that seems a bit problematic to me.
@@Notmyname1593 You got it, pigs are one of the few animals that can survive being disembowelled and having their head's cut off.
Good job Skall, yes I do like this video format you’ve done. Gives an extra layer of analysis toward blades behaviour in the cuts or stabs, forge tempering and swordsmanship. Keep up the good work my friend
I'm glad you did this. You have a very respectful way of critiquing the show.
A turtle approves of this opinion and commentary
Yes very good
Heyyy I see you on Hasan alot turtle love you
You are god himself
Tasty turtle
Another turtle concurs.
There is one thing I notice consistently: especially on longer swords, Doug tends to strike with the very center of the blade, just below the centre of percussion.
That's probably because of his knife training. He tends to go to a closer range.
@@banana_pancake7171 That's probably it.
Swords are not just big knives. Not even the messer with it's knife-like construction.
It should only really be a problem for some of the late medieval longswords/spadone/zweihanders/etc. I'm particularly talking about those designed for half-swording, where only the top half(or third in extreme cases) is sharp. The rest of the time it should only result in a somewhat suboptimal cut.
@@OnlyKaerius
Even then, most sowrds were entirely sharp. You can do halfswording with an entirely sharp blade. Skall did a video about this
@@OnlyKaerius The swords that would not KEAL in the compilation had issues with either sharpness, geometry, or heat treating.
The third sword, the claymore that had considerable flex, was actually usable and could cut (it went through a bundle of sugarcane), but with how thin the blade was, it needed to be struck with the centre of percussion to get the best results.
Thinner blades are more flexible and are tougher to cut well with along the entire length.
Loved it👍
Got in a comment argument with someone the other day about another one of Doug’s test cuts.
In the video, you can clearly see that blade was off square with the target by 30+ degrees. Yet when I commented that such a cut wasn’t a fair representation of the blade, several people were replying that it didn’t matter. Claiming that even if it was way off it should cut through anyway. When I know from experience that this is not the case.
There’s a fine line between making a good cut and hammering the target like you were swinging a club. It’s somewhere around 15 degrees, depending on the length of the blade, what part of the blade is hitting the target, the nature/toughness of the target and other factors.
It just amazes me how one swing with a blade would make nice, beautiful deep cuts and the very next, nearly identical, swing would hammer the target like it was a club. The only difference being that the blade impacted just a couple degrees more off square. While the next would again cut beautifully.
A true measure of the importance of practice and precision in blade work.
Great vid 😊
Hey Skall, I like this format. I would appreciate more content like this where you look at demos or cutting tests and comment on the technique. Keep up the good work bro!
I would also argue that he's combat testing these weapons. Meaning any imperfections in his form should be handled well by the blades.
I kinda had a similar thought. If you had perfect replication of each strike for a kill test (and even some sharpness tests), then yea the blade is far less likely to fail.
But the reality of life is it won’t be perfect every time, and if the blade can’t handle slight misalignment (it’s not usually that bad with Doug. Most of the time it’s passable, and rarely very out of alignment without good reason) then it was bound to fail in a real combat scenario.
Literally the next test they do on these blades is a durability test. They're TRYING to break these things, if it breaks on the pig, it's not Doug's fault, the blade wasn't good enough. I've seen swords just bitch slap all three tests like it was the easiest thing in the world, Doug's imperfect form isn't a factor, they could bring a 12 year old in and do the same tests and still could determine which blade is better accurately. The blade that breaks is never the better one. Unless both of them break then it depends on the context, but ehhhhh aside from that.
I would argue against the idea that it is a combat test because the strikes are way to exaggerated. You’re never really going to bat swing a sword in combat like that
@@andrescrespo2514 You give a the skill of lot of historic warrior *way too much* credit.
@@InfernosReaper if you are using any of the weapons that are being displayed on forged in fire then you are not the common historic combatant, you are someone who has a fair bit of money, knows they are going to be fighting and most likely has some form of training. If we were talking about billhooks and other peasant weapons then I would agree with you.
Imagine how deadly the DC comic book character "The Flash" would be, if he practiced and studied how to use a sword.
All he's gotta do to be deadly is throw a pebble at your head why's he need a sword
@@farmersgrip Because it's cooler than a pebble.
Super sonic rock projectiles dropping people in the blink of an eye is Pretty effective both in cost and outcome tho no real need for fancy weapons when you have super powers .... sorta like giving superman a machine gun for coolness when he already has laser eyes
@@farmersgrip I dig the avatar, plague masks are creepy af. Imagine if people had to wear masks like that during this pandemic?
@@jmatt781 it'd be more fun then the masks we gotta wear now ...
Very good! You are one of the few good people who actually know what they are talking about (out of what I have seen from you and your work). Keep up the good work!
We enjoy this video format! Thanks for making one and I'm surely looking forward to the next one. And yeah, Doug is one hell of a knife fighter!
I think it's actually spelt "KEAL". It apparently stands for "Keep Everyone ALive".
Lol
Good try, but no.
@@Par-Crom Literally Google it. That's why it's spelt like that, Doug said so himself lmao.
@@1983SpringBonnie Alright, must be true then, I believe you. But honestly why changing the word "kill" to something like KEAL, and why trying to give this acronym a meaning ? I thought initially this was to avoid RUclips bot triggering by "unsafe words" like "kill".
So KEAL might have a meaning, but overall I consider this meaning more of an excuse to make this word legitimate of some sort :/
@@1983SpringBonnie I'm sorry to have thought that you made that guess by yourself.
I love how skalagrim reamins objective during the whole video.
Very well in fact. Extremely professional, and respectful in his commentary. I'd love to see more.
Thanks again for your work and i love this format too!!
Really glad I came across this video. I wish these shows would go into more depth like you do in this video. To me, none of these type of shows would lose value by being truer to the details involved in these types of disciplines.
The edge alignment would not keel
Tl; DR: Skal: Doug WILL KEEL (just not with shitty swords)
To be fair having watched the show some of those blades make me cringe before they get any kind of testing. Forget what episodes but there have been people who didn't give any consideration beyond looks and forged a semi-decent blade and then fit a grip that was perfectly straight, round, and polished till it was smooth- of course your going to have issues with edge alignment when the grip is completely round and polished to a point it turns no matter how hard your grip. Another guy screwed up the grip to the point where the tang was rotating inside the hilt, and I recall one guy made a shaped grip that would have been great- if it had been sized to human hands and was actually inline with the blade to start.
I'm very pleased to see that this is the only video where someone "reacts" to youtube videos that actually knows what the frame by frame buttons are.
Thanks for the video. I saw the comments and did think they were over critical but since I'm in no way an expert, i just enjoy watching about ancient weapons, I couldn't say anything. Thankfully there are people like you who can explain it so simply.
I, for one, thoroughly enjoyed this little foray into weapon testing analysis ... thanks for taking the time to do that for us.
I've never watched Forged in Fire, but I'd also heard loads of people saying "Doug can't cut..." so it was nice to actually SEE what really went on.
Cheers Skall, take it easy!!
The Cold Steel proofs series always seemed underwhelming to me, because they only showed sharp and robust swords making good cuts - made it look easy - without the counter-example of wallhangers folding up on impact, as we see here.
Since their product got faked often, it makes sense they should make comparison videos
"Razor sharp" is also a pet peeve of mine. A proper razor is gonna typically have a single bevel, and that bevel is going to be less than 3 degrees.
Like you hinted at, this makes a razor VERY sharp, but it also makes it dull faster and will be very fragile.
I'm not experienced with sharpening swords, but I'm very experienced with sharpening knives. For my kitchen knives, I prefer a double bevel, each sharpened to 12 degrees (collective 24 degrees), general purpose and fighting knives (such as pocket knives and KA-BAR) I like double bevel 17-18 degrees (collective 34-36), and for bushcraft/survival knives, I prefer double bevel 21 degrees (collective 42 degrees).
I know I don't have to tell you, but others who may not know and are reading this, steeper angles won't be as sharp as the shallower angles, but if your sharpening technique is consistent, and you take care to remove burrs via ceramic rods then stropping on long and wide raw hide (I like to treat my raw hide with green extra-fine jeweler's buffing compound to further enhance the finish), you can still get very sharp edges, but they will be more durable as well as hold their edge longer (assuming same steel and tempering).
You also don't need to spend a fortune to learn how to sharpen blades. A good 500 grit diamond plate you can pick up in pretty much any hardware store, and a ceramic stone like a BearMoo with 3,000 grit on one side and 8,000 grit on the other side shouldn't cost you more than about $30-$40 combined, and a good professional leather barber strop will be around $20-$30, and a block of green extra-fine jeweler's buffing compound is like $8 or so. All of these items will last you a very long time (going on 10 years now, myself). As for practicing your technique, buy some knives from a dollar store, buy a single brick at a Home Depot or similar store (or just pick up a potato-sized rock off the ground for free), dull the edge by cutting perpendicular to the brick a few times, then start from the lowest grit and work your way up. Be methodical and consistent. Use junk mail to test cutting sharpness.
Once you feel confident in your skill, and aren't scratching the hell out of the blades, invest in a quality knife. KA-BAR model 1211 is a solid bet, kind of a gold standard for quality. Gerber also makes a decent folding knife, the Bear Grylls "Sheath Knife." It's pretty cheap, but surprisingly reliable, and always has a place in my pack when I go into the mountains. If you want to get crazy, there are some seriously nice, very well crafted blades out there, but expect the sticker price to go well beyond $200. Some of them even cost more than a high quality handgun, which is why I don't have any, because I'm fine with a KA-BAR and would rather have that quality handgun, lol. If I had the money to burn, I'd be all over those top end knives, though!
Quite so! I remember reading (of all things) a Conan the Barbarian story where he sharpens a new sword. Sharp, but not TOO sharp, as too fine an edge was prone to chipping/dulling when cutting into bone, let alone with mail or plate. I took it to heart.
First time watching, i will definetly love to see more of you reacting to forged in fire.
Dough clearly turns the blade thats how they bend or break, but it can happen in a real life senario, so i guess it's acceptable since the blade should have stayed true even after flexing.
you should be able to hand a sword to any random person and have them swing at a target and the sword not break.
a weapon shouldn't fail because of 1 wrong cut.
Dough ];) no doubt at all that it was foremost in the producers mind, look at al this click bait replying here eh.
If the blade deforms or shatters then it won't matter how perfect the edge alignment was the blade would fail and most importantly is unusable.
Hello Skallagrim hope your day was good
He didn't answered, fk him. I stead him I'll say "Have a nice day." to you.
@@hannibalburgers477 what is your problem?
Holy hell I'd love more of this!!
Would be cool as hell to get you as a guest judge on the show
Awesome video Skall! Would love to see more like it.
"We're not robots"
Sounds like a challenge for Mark Rober!
I'd love that video but it would be a little too easy for Mark Rober.
They first claymore clips were from the first season. You can see his technique improvement as he works with more and more swords.
Again! killing it with the points made, and than examples with your own clips. I love this channel. Perfect teacher who makes something like this fun and interesting. I learn so much about history, good fighting form, black smithing and more from your takeaway.
Haven’t seen you in forever my man. Glad to be back
I love this guy. He never claims to know everything about swords and weapons of history. But his knowledge is very high on the topic and is so fascinating. Also the funnier videos he makes are top notch. I also got a soft spot for him cuz I’m also from B.C. but still he’s videos are fantastic. So happy to see his channel grow over the years.
I know this may sound crazy, but I was just watching this same exact episode from FIF last night for the first time!!!And I've been watching Skal for months now. It's like youtube is connecting everyone's heads...
I like this form of content in this video.
You are very knowledgeable and non-biased., You tell it how it is and I respect that.
That being said, I also like your own weapon tests.
Thank you for creating such amazing content.
Aloha from Hawaii.
Love these more technical videos where you get to hear what some of the probabal reasons are for the failure of the weapons to preform.
I was just thinking about this yesterday I'm glad you broke this down so much, I just thought he couldn't use swords lol
One thing that I would like to point out is that even if (for these weapons with imperfections) they were given proper edge alignment for the KEAL test, it is very likely that they would break in the subsequent strength test.
I'm actually glad these happens. It shows how much thought, knowledge and care it takes to make a proper weapon.
To be honest. It's always nice to hear your opinion on mainstream stuff specially a person of your skill, and thank you for the good content keep up the good work
5:40 - when you perform a multi-attack with your starter short-sword and can't beat a goon's unarmored AC
Not gonna lie, I would probably watch every episode of Forged In Fire if Skall were one of the judges.
Please do more of these! Maybe look at the most unusual weapons or the ones that did the most damage.
Super great video! I have wondered if his technique was the cause of some of the failures. Thank you for the breakdown!! More please!!!
You swing enough times on film, you're going to have some bad ones
I never realized how hard it is to use a sword. There is so much to think about while your in a fight. It makes sense but when you watch sword fights in movies and things it looks very easy.
this was suprisingly very entertaining and informative. i'd love to see more
Humbly requisting more of these critique/reviews please!