S02 E01: African Spirituality and Christianity: Part 1 w/ Clive Botha, Gcobisa Sigwili and Bongekile
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- One of the most controversial and divisive issues in the faith community is African Spirituality; and how it interfaces with other religions.
In this episode we sat down with our biggest panel yet that included traditional African healers (sangomas) who also subscribe as pastors and preachers of Christianity.
This is a wide-ranging discussion that ranges from the definition of African Spirituality, its various beliefs and practices; as well as how a Christian can still have a relationship with their ancestors.
Please leave us your thoughts in the comments section.
LOVED the christian lady( Bongkekile), she got her boldness later on but i LOVE IT!!! I saw True Christianity , and what Looks like it and what SOUNDS like it. You can NEVER mix GOD iwth anything , we do not dilute CHRIST. The sangomas are not CHRISTIANS or TRUE followers of CHRISTS.
The Christian lady is the true follower of Christ
Good, we need less christians and it's good to know others are not them.
Im also finding my journey. I stopped calling myself a Christian but a follower of Christ. Very interesting subject, can't wait for part 2&3 kuzoshuba.
I am also loving that definition
A follower of christ is a Christian by definition though isn't it?
How do you follow Christ and denounce Christianity? Does she even know WHAT Christianity is to begin with?
I am a fan of this podcast...I acknowledge the bravery of the hosts to confront and tackle these uncomfortable topics. However, i hold this view that justice was not served in this topic... There is one lady for nonbelievers to african spirituality against two people advocatimng for african spirituality....secondly, the lady always refer to scriptures but there is not response to those scriptures ...otherwise, theres baseless allegations of bible being imposed but on the same breath they believe in the same bible.
Very interesting, the truth is we don’t convert spirit in Christ but we cast them out. So Botha was not saved but loved to be born again and learned the practice.
Thank you so much for this. Broadening my knowledge. I'm new in the St John church. I believe in Christ, I worship God through Christ Jesus. I have the Holy Spirit in me..... and believe in honouring my ancestors.... However I have many questions and am still finding my way. This platform has been educational and very informative in my journey 🙏
I enjoyed this episode, I wish the guests hadn't treated this as a debate though. There's a lot to learn here. Christians must be willing to listen to others. I am a Christian and I loved this ❤️
Loving this, Thank you Nandipha for "the follower of Christ"
It’s true, many are called but few are chosen, Jesus is a revelation
One thing I can say is Religion is prescribed while African Indigenous Spirituality is Creative
well that is your own opinion
Thoroughly enjoyed this episode 😊 extremely thought provoking
Thank you so much Lebo. We appreciate you ❤
Soooo interesting Maan thank you guys so much I've learn alot
Blood contracts by the dead will deceive people shame. Spirits will never let go of their host regardless and it goes from generation to generation. Sad. God have mercy.
This was the subject evelile kum from the spirit before I even saw this 😮😮😮yhoooooo spirituality is very deep I'm still shocked cz almost every part of this podcast was one of my encounters🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
We are definetly finding the truth for our selves, beautiful episode. Let's share so it can reach a lot of ears
are we really?
I feel like people that call themselves Christians should spent more time in studying the word the bible says, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I also believe that life is spiritual on its own
I’ll remain not believing in the bible shame, I don’t see myself understanding God because of it. I have a personal relationship with God and how I understand the supernatural blood
Good question... Is African Spirituality a religion?
our forefathers used to go up the mountains to worship and pray to god for rain when there were droughts etc , who then told us we need to pray and worship them. my grand parents were Christians even those who were not but they did pray to god, then why would i pray to them instead of GOD
Every good gift comes from God, when God give you those gift ,it doesn't mean you need to practice by ukuhlahluba
Christianity has done a lot of damage to our people, so sad.😢
are you sure about that?
@@sipiwovena920 Yes!
Luke 16:13 state"you cannot serve two masters, you will hate one and love the other. This is a principle which those advocating for African spirituality do not understand, that is why most of them will say I believe both Christianity and African spirituality. The bible is a book of Covenants old and new.A Covenant is a binding agreement which is irrevocable by which man was redeemed Malachi 2:14-16 , hence that is why God hates divorce simply because it goes against the very purpose of an covenant. Ephesains 5:31. When God says to Moses "I am the God of thy father, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Exodus 3:6 these are covenant names its not about ancestors, its more about the covenant God made with the children of Israel hence they could only serve one God. Genesis 22:17-18. Today as Christians we are in the Everlasting Covenant because we received salvation Ephesians 2 :8 ; Romans 1:16-17.
20:14 She says 'God did not give us a spirit of fear' good! Stop right there!.... There are only 2 sides God's side (Light) and the other side (Darkness). So if God (by her own admission) didn't give us a spirit of fear, then who operates in that spirit?
Obviously the fallen one (Darkness), and if the accuser operates in the spirit of fear and her ancestors are coming to her with that spirit, then who are they aligned with!? Obviously darkness! I rest my case!
I was very keen on hearing the view of sis'Sibongekile when she was saying God rejected the spirit of the dead from the old testament but she was cut. Nevertheless, a very interesting topic indeed😂
Obviously that's an Israeli God not the of everyone including our ancestors
SIsi with the blue dress is one of us (sangomas), it is a matter of time lizoqubuka kuye idlozi,...highlight this comment
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I cant see african spirituality and Christianity coinciding with another. At least not in my life. I let all christians in my sphere know what christianity is and if they continue to participate, then they are kept at a distance. No matter how u spin it and apologize for it, Christianity is anti black and not for us. Argue with yourself, im in my 30s and did the arguing in my 20s. During my early 20s as a christian myself, then a fledgling awakened black african descendant later.
Nandipha is very wise bakwethu
Halleluya
Cha ngiyayithanda ke le ethi 'it's a personal relationship with God' and that those who wrote the Bible wrote according to their personal experiences with God
Good day panelist,thank you for sharing such. I'm glad to see our people awakening. However.
The Africaness of the Bible must be measured against the existing African culture. If the Bible emphasis patriarchy then you can't say the Bible is African because the African culture is Matriarchal. Though it may reference few black people that exception doesn't make the Bible African .Rather this is a book of Asiatic(Sumeric).An ancient Near East mythology.That doesn't make it African because we can't take an exception and make it a norm.
We as Bantu we are 70 %of Africa's population. We hold on to the Trinity of( Umvelinqangi, modimo,etc), Ancestors and Buntu.Which obviously in the Bible of 3 Abramic faith they oppose each other yet it originate from one source, which refers to African or Bantu Trinity as a pagan thing, Demonising our way.
We have approximately 3000 ethnic or tribe as Bantu, and of these 3000 have a name for God, as Xhosa man I'm referring to Qamata other nations like Zulu is Umvelinqangi. Therefore we can't universalise Israel God who only loved Israel and killed other nations just for the sake of his people Israel. Israel God didn't even want intermarriages, meaning other nations were defiling his people. Come on people. It's their story. A male centered culture book written by men.Not a story of all Africa from Cape to Cario. In Africa women are so precious people to an extent that we even see women as procreators not as second class citizen. Hence we can't use the Bible as the final judge of all African consciousness, all African culture, all African thought system. We can't take a story from small geographical location to define the whole entire continent of Africa.
Healers there on the panel today there no need to hide under Christianity to excessice your Spritual culture, Witchcraft is not for this time, that was for our ancestors during colonialism. However I do understand that today we under neocolonialism which is a mixture the indegenous spirituality and foreign spirituality. But we need to cut off those entanglements.
2 Corinthians 6 (KJV)
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¹⁴ Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
¹⁵ And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
¹⁶ And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
¹⁷ Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
¹⁸ And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
@mkhulu, it is only God who gives gifts only
I haven't finished watching this video but I have to make this comment in the interim. Listen there are only 2 sides here Light (Truth & Wisdom) and Darkness (Ignorance and Deception) Now!!. 17:21 'They can even hide you from yourself' which of the 2 sides does that sound like!?.....
Of course you would be happy to find yourself! But there question she didn't ask herself is WHY did they even hide her from herself to begin with? What right and authority did they have to do that? What was the purpose of that Darkness (Because she was ignorant of who she was for years).
Nope!.... no questions, just happy to have 'found herself in her ancestors' My God!!
Lord please remove the scales from your children's eyes so that they may see!!
But Jesus is not wanted in Israel 😮
Should think ,afrcan spirituality is not traditions or customs
one person in this panel is really confused and lost
Bongekile hai hai
I think you are denying the existence of your forefathers. You should know yourself better and you are denying that you are existing. The Bible was written in Arabic and not African languages. Jesus Christ was not black. Please you should know yourself better and God will reveal to you. Find yourself and where you came from. Abraham was not our ancestor. Maybe your ancestor but not everyone. I bet when you pray you don't use your own language that is the reason you feel your ancestors are not African. I am proud African woman and my ancestors are black. I don't worship them but I am aware that they exist. I always pray to God to cleanse them so that when they come and leave within me they will be cleansed spirit. My dear lady try find yourself and you will never be lost. You will learn how you worship and praise God.
For starters the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Old testament and the new was written in Greek. Jesus is Black, so was Moses, Solomon many others.
You say you don't worship the ancestors, you just aware of them, so why do you ask them ask them for things? Like the lady was saying she was asking them for a husband, some people ask them for children, ask them to sort thier lives out and all that, why not ask God himself? Why do you need to appease them?
You say you pray to God to clenlanse the ancestors that come to you so they can be clean... Do you know which god you are preying to that is supposedly answering your preyers? Cos the God of the Bible would not answer such a preyer when he is clear that he does not want us to communicates with spirits of the dead!
I have no relationship with Jacob, Isaac and Moses. So I call him God of my forefathers because I have seen and know God through them.
Spirituality is deep and it takes one to listen and want to learn. The problem with Christian's is that they never want to listen.
@@sibongileantaresmbata7223 you can call him whatever you want, but if your ancestors worshiped God thru thier ancestors they were not worshiping the God of the Bible, ie the God of Abraham, who was known that way because there were and still are MANY gods. When sangomas do rituals in the water, they are appeasing the water spirit or serpent god also known as leviathan in the Bible. No Christian is or will ever stop you from worshiping whatever god your ancestors worshipped, we simply highlight that the one true Almighty God is not worshiped or communicated with via dead ancestors, because he said it loud and clear that he hates those that practice necromancy, why would he hate what they do and yet still hear listen and hear them calling on him in a way he hates? Just simple logic
Faith is what you believe in but have not seen
When you say you don't deny the forefathers meaning you believe to them just that you not aware