My first thoughts too. I bet there's been a few incidents that caused someone up the food chain to overcorrect with stressing a priority to restrain and vet suspected dangerous people.
Exactly. Even if he said he was Napoleon as long as he was not an immediate threat to himself or others priority one is treatment. But I watch a lot of medical stuff and so many people are being dismissed by ER doctors. Doctor told woman to take teenaged daughter home without even taking vitals. Kid had 105F temp and had sepsis! Mom drove like mad to another hospital & saved her daughter.
Add this to the list of Ascension's incompetence. While thinking his 5 years in an oldies act that hasn't charted in almost 60 years makes him famous is is questionable it would have been easy enough to verify on the Tops' Wikipedia page. Oh, and after twenty years in the industry I've never seen a straightjacket outside of the movies. What's used are restraints and it's always the last resort when dealing with mental health patients. Also, be aware that crazy people get sick, including heart attacks, too.
If he was on oxygen that means they must have taken his sats and saw he was hypoxic. For them to take him off oxygen because they thought he was mentally unstable is outright malpractice.
You know one thing that can cause delusions and confusion? Hypoxia. If you have someone with signs of a major cardiac issue, and they also appear to be confused, you would think you would proceed under the assumption that the confusion is caused by the cardiac trouble, rather than the other way around.
Not necessarily hypoxic. If they have a complaint of chest pain, you put them on oxygen to give them the best chance to keep oxygen going to the heart muscle. They don't have to be hypoxic for that. But certainly removing it if he still had chest pain was malpractice if they removed it because they thought he was nuts.
As an RN, we can initiate restraints. I hate restraints. Don't like using them. If someone said they were the pope, that is not grounds to put in restraints.
Meanwhile, nurses in mental health facilities are the fastest to put someone in restraints as the first response to something as simple as a mild complaint. Rarely have I seen a group who do collectively seem to have an active disdain for their patients.
I've been to the hospital multiple times for mental health stuff (mostly my early panic attacks when I legit thought I was dying and once when I was very close to hurting myself) and not once was being restrained an option even though a few times I'd say it could have been. Saying you are someone else is definitely not grounds and probably would make everything worse.
I can't remember how many patients I had to help leash because they thought the president was in danger. Then turned around and named different presidents as the current one in the same day.
Aren't restraints only allowable if the person is showing signs of potential violence? Agitated state and actions that lead you to believe they will lash out? As you said, claiming to be the Pope isn't signs of impending violence.
@@JoshSweetvale If I understand your position, you think that the hospital was right to put him in a straight jacket? If so, being delusional isn't the same thing as being violent. The straight jacket was absolutely an overreaction, and ceasing medical treatment is just the cherry on top of this lunacy.
It's crazy when I hear stories like this. I work in a hospital system. Nobody wants to hold people against their will. 72 hour psych holds are an important tool, but I've never met a doctor or nurse that WANTS to use them. They will do everything within their power to get the patient in and out as quickly as possible. To hear about doctors and nurses going above and beyond to purposely hold someone is nuts to me.
Hospitals won't let you drive your car in the parking lot if there is no one to pick you up after a stay. My truck was in the outpatient parking lot so a grandson delivering flowers picked me up and drove me to my truck.😮
It's seriously disturbing the amount of superiority complexes you find in healthcare. If they're bad HPCs, they treat you like livestock, if they're good the treat you like a beloved pet, but no matter what, a whole lot of them think you're beneath them. Confidence is important in any field where lives are on the line, but the level of dehumanization we force onto our patients is wildly inappropriate and unprofessional.
Let's just pretend that he is delusional and thinks that he is in the Four Tops. What does that have to do with getting emergency medical care? He wasn't a danger to anyone. If he wants to go through life pretending that he sings in the Four Tops group then what is the harm? A lot of people go through life thinking that they are better than they are. So what? Even delusional people deserve to have emergency medical care.
@@ThundercatDarklion They know that. They are posing a hypothetical question. This guy ended up not being delusional and that made the hospital look even stupider, but what if he was delusional? That still wouldn't be a reason to stop emergency medical care. Treat the emergency before worrying about his mental state. The only exception is if they are a danger to themselves or others.
Let's be fair here. If I happened to be doing a shift in a hospital where Donald Trump walked in and claimed to be Donald Trump, I would be really really tempted to look for a straitjacket and a ball gag. I probably wouldn't do it. But man, fighting off that temptation would be hard.
There's a prejudice rampant in much of the medical community. Basically, if one has any kind of mental health issue, they are automatically not "allowed" to have a medical condition. Whatever physical symptoms they are experiencing are by definition "all in their head." Because they're crazy, ya know.
Chronic atrial fibrilation causes vascular dementia and an elevated stroke risk. My stepfather has it. He can't remember anything for more than 15 minutes.
@bronyinsticks There has always been money in pill pushing there has never been money in solving peoples problems. The two industries need cash cows those are needed even at the patients own quality of life. It's just money its made up pieces of paper with faces on it
How damn dangerous is a 50+-year-old man in the midst of heart attacks that he needs to be in a straightjacket, even IF he was lying about being in the Four Tops? This man should be allowed to sue the doctors and guard directly as well as the hospital.
I think he can. Unlike the police, they don't have qualified immunity. The hospital and the insurance companies will most likely be the ones paying out if/when he wins. I'm not sure what effect it would have on the guard, beyond losing their job. For the doctor, losing a case like that will make malpractice insurance coverage a lot more expensive. Even if the hospital pays for that, it will make it hard to find a better paying position elsewhere.
@@BD-xz6te The security guard could lose his state license/certification which would effectively end his carrier in security since most companies require that.
My nephew went to hospital with chest pains. He was sent home because the nurses said he was on drugs. He died of a heart attack a few hours later. Those nurses should be charged 😮
I am so sorry for your loss. It is one thing to miss something, but when it is entirely because they are acting on prejudice and judgment that should be criminal. They are essentially choosing who is worthy of treatment or even life and death.
Woke up with double pneomonia, in a panic I called the 24 hour doctor. He said that I can't be too bad if well enough to phone him and what do I expect him to do? I struggled to get to my parents house, they then had to dial 999 for an ambulance as my heart was eratic. I was admitted with blue lips. I shouldnt have called the doctor and wasted his precious time.
I remember the story of - Woody Guthrie - was picked up by the police (it turned out years later of his Huntington disease) and taken to the mental hospital. He was trying to tell the staff that he was Woody Guthrie and he traveled the country in a box car train playing guitar, etc. The hospital called his wife up and told her all these "delusional stories" - she told them "that's all true"
They literally ignored his wife, who confirmed his identity. I'm surprised his wife wasn't also thrown into a straight jacket, but at that point they were probably just doubling down and NEEDED to be right.
This is a multi-million dollar lawsuit. I'm a RN, this 100% should not have happened. There are protocols for this (that they obviously didn't follow).
@@UncleKennysPlace NO! It's like going to prison and being innocent. You don't know when or if you will ever get out. Maybe tomorrow maybe never! It in-prisons not only your body but your mind. It should not be actual damages. At a minimum it should be high enough to change the protocols from it ever happening again.
@@resterAnonymeso you think this guy was laying on the hospital bed, said that he was a member of the band and the nurse just grabbed a straight jacket? Have you considered the possibility that there could be more to the story?
@@cycleboy8028except our system is set up so that judges can't just enforce huge punitive payments on moral grounds, because that's a terrible idea. They have to demonstrate how the damage and recklessness is commensurate.
Far too many medical staff have developed the same confirmation bias tunnel vision that is rife in police departments across the country. Once an idea is lodged in their heads, they are unable to recognize data or facts that don't match their premise.
@@priestessofkek2406 This also happens to morbidly obese people all the time in the medical field, you have a broken leg, you just need to diet and exercise to fix your broken leg. Having a heart attack all you need to do is diet and exercise and that will cure your heart attack. I am sure it happens to all other kinds of people as well in the hospital with tunnel vision.
Reminds me of the kind of care I got at my old local hospital. I'm having migraines; they prescribe strong anti psychotics. I'm not crazy lady. O_o; The doctor said they were going to get me a note for missing work. They kept stalling, and asking why I hadn't left yet when they returned to the room. I kept reminding them, I asked for a note for work. They finally give it to me. Another time the surgeon walked in asking if I was the one receiving kidney treatment. No, I'm not having kidney issues, they had the wrong patient's results. Thats irresponsible and dangerous potentially, had I not corrected him I could have easily gotten them to break patient confidentiality. I would be afraid to be at the mercy of staff who have no idea who they're treating and could mix up results. or just decide to label you crazy and refuse to treat you. Staff was bullying a teen, laughing at him for stumbling into walls after they over medicated him. They called him "rhino". Certain professions attract the kind of people who have a sadistic desire in having control over others to gratify their power trip. I've watched cops lock people up on false charges, call in five cops during a routine traffic stop just to intimidate and harass. Sadly a lot, (not all) authority figures abuse their position of power. Try living homeless for a short while, you will find out quickly how little they care. The police and hospital, put us in a dangerous situation. We could have died walking freezing cold without a map while trying to get back to our only shelter my broken-down car. They demanded we get transported to the hospital, after examination, they gave us bus passes, for the bus that wasn't unning by the time they discharged us. I was terrified of my ex who had become deranged and violent, but after the situation the police and hospital put us in, I had no faith if I reported domestic violence/ kidnapping i wouldn't just have no access to money and be left starving with no way to get home. I finally got out of the situation after a ride to Bethany, the police there were actually helpful, the town helped me contact my parents and finally brought my abduction to an end. I finally had my faith restored a little. So many bad actors made this situation so much worse, made me have to stay with my violent abductor.
Why is it that every time a company gets caught treating people horribly, they issue a statement that basically claims they always have and always will treat people wonderfully? Is it their way of saying "We'll never change"?
Probably because it helps protect them from further legal ramifications, if it is an uncommon occurrence for this kind of medical malpractice they are liable for less damages than say if it came across like this hospital has a habit of mistreatment patients.
Because they know the corporate stenographer reporters will open their palm for a coin and spread their legs wide and simply reprint the statement without question.
The detail that wasn't in the story you read was that the guard got in his face and yelled "get your black ass back in that chair" when he kept protesting the mistreatment being inflicted on him. That's the racial profiling mentioned in the lawsuit. I believe every state has laws against abduction and everybody involved in this travesty should be arrested for violating it.
Exactly, they refused treatment , ignored his wife, and put his life in danger and racist abuse, a hate crime. I hope he sues them for 100 million and gets every cent.
Absolutely. Not sure it was racially motivated, though. I could see an old white guy saying he was a member of the beach boys running into the same doubts. It will effect his payout some, as it being racially motivated would incur malfeasance, instead of just neglect. It is understandable they thought him possibly in need of a mental acuity check. It is neglect/malpractice they committed him without checking out the veracity of his story. They skipped a major step not even attempting to verify his story.
@@drwoo6090 My mother was in hospital for an operation on a broken hip. When I visited I found her to be incoherant. She wasn't even sure who I was. I asked the nurses what had caused this and she just glibly said "It's just age, she's senile". I assured the nurse that my mother is NOT senile. Nobody goes from totally lucid to having advanced altziemers overnight. I then had to argue the point that she was perfectly fine the day previous. I then argued, unless they've given her something to cause these symptoms then she must be suffering from something. I refused to leave the building until they took the issue seriously. They ran tests and found she was suffering from a UTI. As soon as they started treating her, her mental faculties came back literally over night.
@@bartsanders1553 corporations don't have trustees on their boards. Trustees serve on school boards and township boards as elected officials. Corporations have directors.
No, you get $25 plus $5 for an accidental lobotomy. $50 is only for negligent homicide, but when you go to cash it, it bounces. Don't ask me how a gift card can bounce, hospitals work in strange ways.
I don’t get any medical care in the US if I can possibly help it. The doctors and nurses… try there. They do. They just can’t do their jobs right because they’re fighting a system. They’re paying attention to their computers. They don’t make eye contact. They hate women. They’re overworked. It’s not their faults. It’s just the reality that the US has abysmal health care.
another concern, is the current policy to immediately restrain the mentally ill at this hospital??? Based on nothing other than "well we thought you were crazy sooooo."
Maybe they just really didn't like the band lol. It is bizarre to imagine how you can actually come in and give them a fake name or an assumed identity or tell them you are a different gender or potentially even a different race or species, but when you tell them you're in a band that's where they draw the line. Like they don't put people with dementia in a straight jacket, what were they thinking?
It's almost as if you're only hearing the information that is advantageous to the guy in the story, but none of the information that actually led to the hospital doing this (assuming they actually did it).
I'm a physician. I've had to stop such treatment because the "emergency department" decided to jump to conclusions and lock someone up in psych room when they had actual medical problems. So glad I'm done being a hospitalist.
I don't understand this in the slightest because it's been well known for decades things like diabetic crisis can be mistaken for being drunk or mentally off, and that's just one medical condition off the top of my head that medical professionals should recognize for what it is. *I am not even a medical professional* Where did they get their certifications, clown school?
I had an emergency with my heart and the ER treated me like crap until the drug test they gave me came back negative for coke and meth. Then they became helpful.
Been there. I was T-boned and knocked unconscious coming home from grocery shopping. The other driver ran the light - but he was conscious and I wasn't. According to the EMTs (I woke up in the ambulance) who had kindly brought along my 2 bags of groceries, the guy had a temper tantrum. They said anyone reacting the way that guy did is usually trying to distract attention from himself. The EMT asked me if I had been drinking, as the other driver demanded I be tested for alcohol. I woke up with my usual sarcasm completely intact and said "Last time I checked they don't serve alcohol at Trader Joe's". The EMT laughed, said that's what he thought and apparently that's what the police thought or they would be meeting us at the hospital to arrest me as soon as the blood test came back positive. At the ER I was treated like dirt. No one would answer any questions, they wouldn't come in the room - nothing. But as soon as that blood test came back negative for booze (I don't drink, BTW. I barely sip the champagne at the wedding toast. It just doesn't agree with me any more) they were all over me. Must have been 3 nurses, a couple orderlies and 2 doctors checking the profusely bleeding scalp wound (Looked worse than it was. I just happened to have a white sweater on. No stitches), getting me water, asking a zillion questions, checking my vitals, ordering x-rays - you name it. But not until AFTER they were sure I hadn't been drinking. Just plain shitty behavior. That particular hospital does have a reputation for having an attitude problem with anyone brought in that is suspected of drinking or drugging. I had heard about it, even seen it myself when I brought someone there that had been in a bar, but his injury had nothing to do with his drinking beer. I just never imagined it would happen to me. An injured person is deserving of aid in a hospital. That is their function. Not to make judgement calls on whether someone should be treated because of whatever they may have been doing when they got the injury. We live in strange times.
I know a disabled veteran who has multiple medical diagnoses, some of them quite serious, and some directly related to her service in the US military. She also carries a mental health diagnosis. Multiple experiences with VA hospital personnel have proved that, in essence, a person with a mental health diagnosis is automatically lying when they complain about a (very real) medical condition.
I’m in the same boat (he he I was USN). Chronic debilitating pain. After being on pain meds for 7 years and still not dependent on them, the VA decided to cut me off cold turkey because they were worried I was going to or were addicted. I always made sure I made my script last longer just to show them I wasn’t. They put in a neural stimulator that I can’t use because it makes my left leg numb and useless! Gotta love the VA
A patient actually died in the waiting room of the OKC Veterans hospital years ago. But they have fixed everything now....Edit, it was 2017 and it was in a stairwell.
I am a 100% disabled veteran with both physical and mental health issues. I'm a cancer survivor. I sometimes get treated like I'm crazy when I'm seen for physical problems.
I think a $25 million judgement to match the $25 gift card sounds about right. And it’s a perfect award to that poor guy for the hospital’s malpractice and negligence.
There are options, as well as loud publicity and public accusations . Of course, if you want to be defeatist and help assholesbe assholes, go ahead, but it doesn't make you look clever or respectable. Just makes everyone see that you are a big part of the problem.
I cannot for the LIFE of me understand why they would put a straitjacket on someone who has shown no indication of being violent. It is grotesque. That alone should be actionable. If nothing else it should count as assault.
This is the same hospital that made my mother and I sit in the emergency waiting for 45 minutes after my father had already past because the security officer never notified medical staff that his family had arrived.
Sounds like real winners. I know one hospital help cover up a homicide committed by a cop. Another hospital was working with the state to take babies into foster care. IDK why so many hospitals will work with the state against their patients.
@@johnwesley256 The children are not the permanent property of their parents, and their parental rights can be terminated if they are a danger/not representing the best interests of their children. If the hospital was working with the state, it is due to the hospital calling/reporting the parents for suspected child abuse and are handing over the evidence to child protective services that prove their claims of said abuse.
I am so sorry. There is very little that is harder than losing a parent. You should have been allowed to be with him. Big city hospitals just stop caring at some point. Hugs and love to you.
Why are they putting someone who shows no signs of being a danger to themself or others, but merely seems to have a harmless delusion, in a straitjacket? That's about at the level of a police officer tazing someone for insulting them.
It makes no sense. Almost without fail, when people ascribe a nonsensical motivation to someone else, it's because they're lying through omission about the actual motivation. Maybe the facts are right, but by saying they did it because of an identity mix-up it's glossing over the fact that there was also an accompanying freakout. It might also be that employees at the hospital really were just champing at the bit for a chance to try out a straightjacket. But I'd expect the narrative in that case to be "they put me in a straightjacket, and I don't know why" rather than "and I'm certain it was for a specific reason, despite that reason being completely illogical." Don't get me wrong, the hospital almost certainly mishandled the situation. But there's almost no chance that the narrative being spun is complete.
@@G.Aaron.Fisher Sure, that is about what I was thinking. I suspect it isn't just this guy and instead they are just regularly using restraints for convenience and cost savings (rather than waiting until there is a demonstrable cause for them). I'm also guessing there is essentially zero oversight.
Maybe he got violently agitated because he was in bad condition and they were treating him like he was crazy? That's the only thing I can think of. Doesn't look good for them!
Where do you think they take people to be assessed for mental issues? It often happens in a hospital. Most emergency departments have a psych room. And many hospitals have psych wards. But I do agree that the medical staff were wrongly claiming to be competent medical professionals.
A very well-known movie actor and director had a ::cough:: secret child. (I knew the child's mother.) One day the child (who had been given his mother's surname at birth) went to school and excitedly told everyone that his daddy had won an Academy Award. The teacher called the mother and said we have a problem, your child thinks his father is [famous actor]. To which the mother replied, [famous actor] IS his father!
A friend of mine who immigrated to the US got in trouble in elementary school because she “claimed” that she had been in Paris. Her teacher corrected her, saying “Paris, GA” (for example), while she insisted it was “Paris, France”. Parents got called in and they were not amused.
@@absurdengineering Why would the teacher not believe they had been to _the_ Paris? They dont _like_ foreigners there, but they let them in to take their money.
@@natehill8069Beats me. Probably had some wild preconceived ideas about the family’s economic status or something? Hard to tell. I’m not so sure about not liking foreigners. The kid went to school there for a couple of years, lol, and could speak French. The teacher was obnoxious.
My doctor insisted that I’m a street drug addict (I’m not) and that my husband beat me (30 yrs he’s never shown violence toward anyone).. when I denied his baseless claims he treated me like I was lying & kept demanding that I be honest (when I was being 100% truthful). Because this egocentric liar put these untruths in my medical file, every new dr I visit now gives my husband the most hate-filled looks of disgust. I fired the man, but the damage is done! Our medical system has become an arrogant, absurd, greedy and reckless disgrace!!
@@ExploreOhioWilderness It also does not help when men are automatically presumed guilty of DV/SA when allegations are made with zero evidence and the men have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the BS story never happened. It makes you wonder how many men who got convicted of DV/SA are wrongfully convicted and were forced into classes being made to admit to crimes/actions they never committed.
I wonder if Steve talked about that clip of first responders calling the cops to have a guy having a medical emergency removed from an ambulance. Apparently he latched onto one of the EMTs while complaining about breathing issues. Obviously the guy was panicking because he was dying, but apparently this wasn't deemed a serious enough issue to warrant continuing to the hospital nor was it deemed important enough for the cops to rush him to the hospital when they showed up. Instead they forced him to get out of the ambulance and left him to wander over to a bench on a street corner and before he even properly sat down on it he passed out and slammed into the pavement so hard he started bleeding from his head. And even after watching him collapse the EMTs and cops decided to ignore him for about two minutes. Apparently at this point one of the cops realized he was losing a rather noticeable amount of blood. Sadly the man died about two weeks later while in the hospital's care, but one does have to wonder if he would have survived if the EMTs or cops had simply rushed him to the hospital for treatment. As far as I know only one person lost their job over this screw up.
My next door neighbor did all things Goth while in college decades earlier. He also played football until the opposing coach ordered the team to "take him out" which they did. The result was a terrible compound fracture that occasionally got infected for the rest of his life. During one of these stays, after giving him serious opioids for pain, they did a mental health quiz and asked him if he had ever considered suicide. Given his former Goth associations he stupidly answered yes. The result was they took him out of treatment and locked him in room in the psychiatric wing without even a TV to watch. All he could do was lay on the bed for three days. His wife and connected friends spent three days getting a court order to release him and continue treatment. This is not the only abuse by that hospital I know of but it hit closest to this incident.
Yeah, if you answer honestly to any mental health questions in a hospital, you're getting locked up, and if you weren't suffering from depression before you got to the loony bin, you sure as hell will be if you stay there for more than a day. They treat you like trash, and give you less to do and less rights than jail offers. "Have you ever experienced delusions or halucination?" "Once, years ago, when I hadn't slept in four days." Proper response, according to their own training: "that is a normal biological response when your brain hasn't had sleep for that long. Has it happened since?" "No." "Ok, then let's not worry about that." What they will do because they are under pressure to make money by involuntary incarceration: "patient reports history of delusions and hallucinations." And anything you answer will be twisted like that. All you can do is deny everything, and even then they might take you in, if they've made up their minds. They aren't above straight lies, and who are people going to believe? The crazy person, or the professional?
I am autistic and religious and learned the hard way that i MUST lie to doctors about mental health questions. They usually think autism symptoms and faith in God are bipolar disorder 🤦♀️ 9:10
@@AliciaGuitar Typical. I took an elective in psychology in college because I thought it would be interesting given I do human machine interfaces, and I needed an elective. The vast majority in the class wanted to get into some kind of practice "helping others" but the sad truth is they were there to figure out their own problems and that wasn't happening. I personally regurgitated the material on the exams and pretty much noped my way out of the whole business. It's rare to find someone in this business who's saner than their patients.
The fact that this hospital completely mishandled the situation, not only failing to assist someone in medical distress but RESTRAINING HIM, and then trying to pass off a gift card like "our bad, will unlimited salad and breadsticks at Olive Garden fix this?" is absolutely unthinkable. I hope they get made to look even more foolish in court.
Just last year I went into outpatient to put a stent in. Right after they finished and was taking everything off I kept telling them my chest hurts my chest hurts and trying to sit up. The nurse keeps saying everything is ok I need to lay still so I don't start bleeding. I continue to tell them all the way back to my room and when they got me hooked back up to the monitors they seen I was having a heart attack the entire time and rushed me back to the operating room. I don't remember making it back there because the next thing I remember was waking up in cardiac ICU. But wait there's more!! That night I was woken up by the night nurse and I grumbled about how you can't get sleep in the hospital and she went off on me telling me if I didn't like it leave!! Hospitals suck now and so do nurses 😢
If the nurse tells you if you don’t like the care then you can leave, and you do, presumably you’re not leaving AMA so they’re still responsible for your welfare, right?
If anything it can be an indication you need to check for things like stroke or blood vessel rupture in the brain, both things that heart disease is a risk factor for.
There once was a time when I automatically assumed that we could, and should, trust the professionals (on whatever the matter). Twice, in the last 6 months, I have found myself in the emergency room. On both occasions, they asked _me_ what I thought the problem was and both times they treated me off of what _I_ told them Google told me. (Of course I'm going to Google my symptoms, who the fuck doesn't do that?) And both times I was sent home, without any answers, because they refused to do their own assessment or even do any blood work, which _would_ have answered ALL their questions. 😶 EDIT to add: They _were_ very keen on imaging, but no blood work. On the second occasion (I stepped on a rusty nail and my tetanus was 20 years over due and two weeks later my neck and jaw became too stiff and tight) they offered to give me an X-ray. WTH for? I have no freaking clue. I figure that's where they make the most $, according to the hospital bills...
Article says it was 90 minutes of detainment, so the staff probably viewed it as a small oopsie during their 12-hour shift rather than the (legitimately) traumatic event it was. A white security guard was apparently also saying some racist shit to him as they were detaining him. It sounds like if his wife wasn't there to alert the other staff (after she was ignored by the staff detaining him) things could've easily gotten worse. Maybe it was one of the other staff that was just brought upon the scene that offered the giftcard without understanding everything that happened.
Even if he had been "mentally ill" medical staff are still REQUIRED BY LAW to continue treatment during an emergency medical event. The fact that they not only didn't treat him properly they actually stopped some life saving treatment by removing his oxygen. There needs to be criminal charges lodged for the felony crime of Medical Assault these so-called medical professionals performed by subjecting him to a straight jacket. Then there needs to be AMA complaints filed and hearings for Failure to Provide Emergency Treatment to have their medical licenses revoked.
As an RRT-ACCS Almost any experienced medical provider knows that a medical condition CAN cause confusion. It amazes me that they didn't continue his medical work up. Also I haven't seen an actual straight jacket in over 30 years. If they actually used one they are medically dangerous for a variety of reasons.
I’d definitely have reservations about receiving treatment from a medical facility that puts a mental health exam over a potential heart problem. Sounds like they have a “death care” protocol in place.
If I didn't know better, I would think this hospital was TRYING to get sued, especially because 10-second Google search would have confirmed his claim.
@CertifiedClapaholic cause it shows gross negligence and that if they truly believed their own bs they could have checked. It shows they didn't give an f.
The claim I still need confirmed is that they put him in a straitjacket because he claimed to be a member of the tops, and not because of some other action or pattern of actions on his part. Because that doesn't make any sense.
Even if he was delusional this is no excuse to use restraints. Restraints, chemical or physical, can only be used if someone is physically violent. This also against APA code of ethics and whoever ordered the restraints needs to lose their medical license.
The proper response was: "Just lie down quietly and let us take care of your heart problem." About 40 years ago, a member of the Ink Spots went to the church we did. It was a small church, and he was most of the Choir.
I know that hospital. I hope his family sues Ascension Macomb-Oakland. I grew up near that hospital. The gift card was a gift card to Meijer's, a local version of Walmart.
I ended up in that hospital with early organ failure. They somehow cured me. They were awesome. The worst part of my 10 week stay was for 3 weeks I wasn't allowed food or water. I had only an IV and feeding tube. Once that tube came out and they let me order food I was so hungry. They have awesome food. And a whole restaurant style menu to boot
@@andrewbatts7678 My dad is currently in Ascension Rochester and is getting over a bout with diverticulitis and a bout with afib. He was on a feeding tube for a while. He was in ICU, and he's in a regular room now. He starts soft foods today. He comes home on the weekend. He gets his antibiotic IV removed today.
@@docsavage4921 I can't confirm that the executives of that health system are more interested in their bonuses and stock options than patient care, because my severance for 18 years of employment was predicated on not disparaging the health system. That said, I can say that sometimes you end up with cliches in nursing groups because nobody else wants to work with them, and you end up with this sort of mentality which results in bad outcomes like this. Inevitably, as a business, the management all the way up the chain is responsible for these types of events. This isn't the first time a bad call like this was made, you can bet on that.
I'm a retired nurse, worked ICUs, Trauma, Life Flight for decades. I have initiated restraints hundreds of times per protocol. NEVER for non-harmful conditions. Physical and chemical (sedation) restraints are strictly regulated. Restraints NEVER stop emergency, life saving care. Often when a person is in a code or ICU they have altered consciousness and try to pull their out their lines so we initiate physical restraints, but remove them once they no longer are a risk to themselves. That hospital and all their staff is now under microscope scrutiny by the accreditation organization and will be for years.
First, thank you. But are restraints the same as a strait jacket? I've had relatives be exactly as you've mentioned-due to the circumstances they're not thinking clearly and try to remove IVs or get out of bed. Their wrists were loosely fastened to the bed rails until they were themselves again. A strait jacket seems like it would preclude certain treatments.
I am blessed to be a pretty healthy specimen, mentally and physically. But I've learned that on the thankfully rare occasions when I'm not at the top of my game, I can behave irrationally. For instance... during the delta wave of COVID I spent part of a night in the emergency room getting IV fluids. They were ready to discharge me at about 3 AM. I had no way to get home (until my neighbor came off his graveyard shift) and taxi drivers were not transporting COVID patients. So I announced that I only lived a mile away and it was all downhill. My nurse said, you are NOT walking home! I was dressed in pajamas and slippers, I didn't have a sweater or a jacket (it was cold outside), part of my path home would have been on the shoulder of a busy highway, and most importantly, I didn't even have a house key with me. What WAS I thinking?? (Easy. I was NOT thinking.) As it turned out, my neighbor, who had a key to my house, was able to leave the work site long enough to take me home. Good thing I don't think I'm Dolly Parton or something....
@@CrankyBeach As an ER nurse, I've driven dozens of patients home if they can wait until the end of shift and the drive isn't more than a few miles each way. I'm blessed that I've never been robbed. I'm a big guy, legally conceal carry and have 18 months combat experience, so not a safe target.
mental hospitals being used as prisons, detaining people without charge under the notion of mental wellbeing (which has been shown to do more damage than it prevents in the long term) should be a crime. but its written into law into many places instead. This story just really takes it to another level.
I hope he is awarded a decent settlement! The position a straitjacket puts a person in would be very dangerous for someone having cardiac issues -- the "I can't breathe" type of dangerous!
@@jamiesands3331 Yeah so you are entitled to your money in cash. If you accepted it then you accepted their compensation in-full value from the store. Anytime someone messes up like that and offers you credit... don't. Just sue them. You don't even need a lawyer for that kind of basic claim.
That should literally be kidnapping. Even if you suspect that a patient has a mental issue, and is not a member of a band, but that is meaningless. When it takes a minute to check, you check. A simple search would have proved he was who he said he was. It is not enough for civil actions to be the remedy, people who make such decisions need to be accountable for their decisions.
It is kidnapping even if we accepted their original conclusion that he has a delusion of being a famous band member that is not enough to lock him up since he is not a danger to himself or society. I agree there should be criminal charges, but my guess is the DA will not be bothered to press any charges related to this matter.
@@BrankoRNtheotherBranko It is against the law, but the DA is not going to enforce the law. Doctors/nurses are rarely held accountable, John Oliver had a series covering medical disciplinary boards and how they rarely hold bad doctors accountable even when they have multiple instances of harming patients due to their incompetence.
Nobody involved will be held accountable... every member of staff will be given paid time for depositions for this case. Hospital administration will say that this was against their policy and they are innocent of any wrongdoing. The security officer will be moved to another clinic (probably with a bump in pay so he moves quietly) as will all the other hospital staff involved. Insurance will quietly pay 2.5 million with a non-disclosure clause/ gag order in the settlement as a nuisance claim so they don't have to defend it.
This reminds me of the Patrick Hollon case. He experienced heat exhaustion/stroke at work and was taken to the hospital. The hospital said he was on drugs and faking it. They injected him with Narcan. Nurses called the police, and Mr. Hollon was arrested. His family got him out of jail and took him to another hospital, where he spent days recovering. The hospital did fire the nurses involved. The police, who did no investigation before the arrest, faced no consequences.
Back in the day, I was a grad student in psychology and used rats in my research. Unfortunately, I became severely allergic to them. The allergy was followed by Dr. A, who was chief of allergy and immunology at hospital X. During my grad school years, I had also been hospitalized for depression at hospital X. Several times, the allergy would be very bad and my husband would take me to the ER at hospial X. One such visit stands out. I could barely breathe, let alone talk. I told the ER doctor I was allergic to rats, but was unable speak well enough to explain the context. He spent a long time looking at my psych records, before asking me if I was taking my meds, seeing or hearing things, and suggesting I breathe into a paper bag. Once I mentioned Dr. A's name, however, it all changed. I was treated appropriately and the symptoms resolved. This happened 50 years ago, but it has always bothered me that having had a mental health diagnosis preempts obvious signs of physical distress.
For non-Australians: Graham Kennedy was a major Australian TV personallity who was often referred to as the "King of Australian TV". I used to work with a woman whose husband was called Graham Kennedy but was not the celebrity. One night he went out to buy cigarettes and didn't take ID with him. While he was out he was involved in a minor trafic accident where he had a minor head injury (nothing serious) and was taken to the hospital as a precaution. He later had to phone his wife to get her to take his ID to the hospital as they would not release him while he thought that he was Graham Kennedy and he needed to prove that that was actually his name. It seems that we get better treatment in Australia in such circumstances than in the US.
I have had Epilepsy since I was an infant and sometimes after I have a bad seizure or a cluster of seizures I go into Postical Psychosis and have woke up beaten to hell in jail several times because the police we're either at best too stupid to read my Rod of Asclepius MedID necklace and bracelet, which I wear 24-7 or at worst purposely ignored them to make an arrest....That is why I can not stand the police....
Its not just police. Doctors are also prone to calling seizures "psychosis" and "pseudoseizures" and saying you are faking. Especially if you have an unusual seizure disorder like JME.
@@AliciaGuitar Very true, on 2 occasions that I woke up in jail I was taken to the hospital first, and since my PCP and Epileptologist are doctors for that same hospital all my records are in their system which says that not only am I Epileptic that I have a history of Postical Psychosis....Since my last arrest in 2022, where I sat in the county jaiI for 12 days before I saw a judge to get a bond, now I only leave the house for doctors appointments and told my family not to call 911 unless they thought I was going to hurt them or If I hit my head or am bleeding badly....The worst part is I never remember anything that happened, but I have had great Public Defenders who listened to what I told them and used my medical paperwork to get the charges dropped or in the 2022 arrest I was charged with 2 felonies and 2 misdemeanors and a prosecutor bent on a conviction I pled to a single misdemeanor with time serves and 1 year of non-monitored probation with no fines or court costs....But it is on my record....
If the hospital was smart, they would settle before this goes to court, make a public apology acknowledging they were wrong and announce changes that will be made to prevent this from happening in the future. It sounds like the guy was blatantly discriminated against since he was not mentally ill and even if he was it is not a crime, and they have to demonstrate that you are a threat to yourself or society in order to lock you away in a mental asylum. That gift card was missing a few zeroes at the end, and I suspect if he accepted the gift card, they would have snuck in somewhere that the amount settles any legal wrongdoing by the hospital.
it is more complicated than that. Staff must have documented something about him being dangerous and unable to be deescalated to justify a physical restraint. their lawyers will not let them talk... if he was not a danger, their staff lied. if he was perceived as a danger and they said this publicly, they now have released HIPAA information. They are screwed either way.
@@beachbri It is not you would be surprised at how pure incompetence and lack of any safeguards can lead to massive fuckups that can get yourself and your employer into massive legal trouble. I would not be surprised if the hospital tries to come up with a cover story and edit his medical records to cover their asses, but the gift card is a blatant admission of guilt that they royally fucked up and that is going to hurt them if it goes to trial in front of a jury.
@@beachbri Not really. He's suing them. Part of that suit will be providing his medical records to the court, at his own request. If they exonerate the hospital then they're fine (except for all the bad press, since no one will even notice if the hospital is cleared).
@@Wlerin7 if what is being put out is accurate, this is not just a court issue. there are implications that will be very hard for the state and any accrediting bodies to just ignore. the hospital will not speak to this specific case for fear of making it worse. Seclusion and restraint is one of the most closely scrutinized areas of health care and require extensive documentation for a reason.
I worked security in a hospital psychiatric unit for a few years. There were only 2 situations where we were allowed to restrain a patient. The first one was violence against others, and the second one was violence against themselves. Even then, it was usually either a seclusion room or wrist and ankle restraints. I had never even seen a straight jacket in the facility.
Let’s just acknowledge that if a mild mannered person comes to the ER and reports chest pains and problems breathing but also claims to be Elvis, the critical issue would be the medical complaints! ‘Elvis’ could be dealt with later.
This is so confusing. If he actually was not in The Four Tops and was mentally ill, what part of that leads to needing a straight jacket? They are not known for anything but gentle fun pop music. If he said "I am Al Capone" then maybe take extra precautions, but a singer in a Motown group? And one of the best ever? That hardly seems threatening. And that's not even mentioning the man was having a life threatening issue. This is how we treat people in emergencies? Do not do. Bad hospital. Bad. Pay up, maties.
The hospital staff involved are obviously the ones who need a straitjacket and padded room. Perhaps Steve should do some sort of contest wherein the audience member who guesses what the settlement amount will be wins some sort of prize. 😜
This would be fun, But we will never hear what the settlement will be as they will probably be settling out of court with a non disclosure in place. Which I think should be public information the people should have the right to know why their medical bills just jumped 10 times what they used to be!
This happens to mentally unwell people too. They get misdiagnosed because it has to be the mental condition. But you can be bipolar and have cancer for example.
Your point about being mentally ill but still legitimately having chest pains is spot on. Essentially the hospital has a DeFacto policy of not providing medical care to mentally ill patients.
RN with 10 years of hospital experience here. A few things stand out to me. I have NEVER put someone in a straight jacket. When it comes to restraints, we use the least restrictive method possible to protect the patient and the staff. If we can get by restraining just the arms, we do that. If youre strong enough to break the normal restraints, we use leather restraints. The fact that he was restrained leads me to believe there is more to the story, whether that be systemic incompetents or a violent patient i cant say with the information available. Seizures while in restraints are super dangerous. The fact that it happened 3 times is highly concerning, especially in the setting of pneumonia and NStemi. Standards of placing supplemental oxygen on a patient with an NStemi is different than a normal person. If the diagnosis of heart problems was thrown out, it doesnt necessarily mean the patient was hypoxic when the oxygen was removed. Psych meds can often lead to or exacerbate existing heart conditions. If someone presented to the ER with delusional thinking and chest pain, I would 100% be concerned with heart problems. Should be that pneumonia can cause confusion/hallucinations in some cases, however i would argue that pneumonia can lead to acute cardiac concerns as well.
After my husband had brain surgery for tumor removal, he was having delusions after surgery. He was in a bed that had alarms if he got out of bed (fall risk), but he kept getting out so they used the arm restraints. That didn't work, so they came in with one that goes around the waist. I told them it would take him about 5 seconds to get out of that, but they had to try, I guess. I took him less than 5 seconds to get out. 😂 I was FINALLY able to reason with him and get him to stay in the bed. That was quite the experience!
How did "a bit of delusional thinking" turn into restraints? Most people with delusional thinking aren't violent even if they have a disorder. Could the hospital have thought of substance misuse going on?
@@the11382 substance misuse still isn't grounds for restraints. If the patient was a danger to themselves or others, that's a different story. If the hospital felt his mental status was altered and he was trying to leave against medical advice, they may have felt he didn't have the capacity to safely leave and pink slipped him. Honestly I can't say without more information.
The members of the Four Tops have changed so many times that if someone came into the hospital and claimed they were a member, I’d be inclined to believe them.
That reminds me of a list of fun things to do at a music festival. One of them was tell everyone you're a member of The Polyphonic Spree to get backstage. Nobody will know if you're telling the truth, possibly including the real members. For reference the Wikipedia article for them lists 25 current members and 94 former members, but it does say that second list is incomplete. Christian Death are another good one to pretend to be a member of. Wikipedia lists 36 former members for them. At one point there were two different lineups, both touring under, and claiming ownership of, the name.
I went to royal perth hospital with chest pains, palpitations, and chest pressure after i recieved an injection in 2021. I was sent home and told there was nothong wrong. Turns out i was actually having a very severe adverse reaction to the injection. I was subsequently hospitalised and clinically diagnosed with myopericarditis.
My sysmtoms were consistent with known and published adverse events to the drug I was recently injected with. And yet so many doctors were unable (either unwilling, or incompetent) to come to the obvious conclusion of an adverse event. It was only once my condition had significantly deteriorated, and my 7th attemp at seeking medical help was I actually taken seriously.
In regard to the $25 gift card, I had a brother-in-law who was injured in an oil rig accident and became uninsurable (those were the days before Obamacare guaranteed-issue health insurance). He went into the hospital uninsured and they billed him $25,000 for one night of observation. They gave him a plastic coffee mug with the hospital's logo on it as a souvenir when he checked out. He had to declare bankruptcy to void the medical billing, but mounted the coffee mug on his mantle, calling it "the world's most expensive coffee cup." btw. "Same old Song" is one of my all-time favorites.
That sucks! I have a similar story. My American workmate can't return to the US because she had a stroke and needed an MRI. The consultation alone on whether or not she needed an MRI was $10k. She flew to Australia and had to pay an "expensive rate for noncitizens" for the consultation and MRI - $248.
When I was 4, I cut my chin open to the bone in a bike wreck. Instead of sedating me, the medical clinc put me in a straight jacket. Messed me up 4 years. No one could hug and hold me without my going crazy fight to get away
@@toulousegoose1150 - It's more like they believe they can "talk them out of it" because children are so suggestable, or they just don't care, or they figure who are they gonna believe? Some little kid or me - the DOCTOR! I really believe some doctors either have God complexes or are sadists. After all - what can a small child do to them? Complain to Mom and Dad? Then all he had to say is something like "many children THINK they're in pain - It's a frightening experience for a child but I assure you he was given . . ." numbing or whatever. And it seems to be getting much worse as the years go by. Revolting, to torture a helpless, hurt child like that.
You don't have to claim to "be somebody" for you to experience medical gaslighting... I went in with chest pains, and screaming high blood pressure and they told me I had diarrhea but was fine and wheeled me to my car and let me drive off... Turns out I have a tumor on my adrenal gland and was in adrenal crisis and could have died in the car on my way home... But you have no case when the doctor's records say you came in with a bout of diarrhea...
@@toolman1990 Yep, that's exactly what I've decided because I have a metabolic disease that requires having a licensed doctor to manage and I've been a victim of medical gaslighting for the last 8yrs with it. Today, we have no choice but to be as medically informed as we can be...
@@NoBody-zr4ue I didn't say I was secretly going to record them. Absolutely I will tell them ahead of time that I am taking audio notes... They cannot refuse me... And if the doctor does refuse me, I don't want them treating me anyway
@@christiroseify I wonder how many of them would refuse this for legal reasons. It's interesting that doctors often have the same incentive to lie as cops, but we have no special protections against doctors and medical misconduct.
WHAT!!!?? so one cannot pretend to be someone else AND have a serious medical condition??? and since when does a straitjacket supersede treating a patient with chest pains??!!!?? I have many questions... mental condition into a straitjacket supersede ALL MEDICAL TREATMENTS??!!? even non-violent mental issues???
Retired RN. You ALWAYS treat the presenting symptoms, which in this case is difficulty breathing and chest pain. Until those are resolved, you don't do anything about possible mental issues. Period. You can use restraints if the patient is agitated and uncooperative with needed treatment, but no restraints are justified when the patient is seeking and being cooperative with treatment. What has been described is just plain wrong from any direction you want to look at it.
The $25 gift card just makes it worse. That detail speaks volumes about the hospital's reaction to finding out that they'd endangered a patient's life by wrongfully assuming he was insane. They thought a piddly little gift card would make it all go away. It's like offering a stabbing victim a box of bandages.
@@badlydrawnturtle8484 accepting small compensation does not mean you aren't owed more compensation. He would have had to sign a contract stating that he won't sue.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Intolerable that they stopped EMERGENCY TREATMENT. Help him first, THEN worry about his mental state.
Could not have said it better.👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
My first thoughts too. I bet there's been a few incidents that caused someone up the food chain to overcorrect with stressing a priority to restrain and vet suspected dangerous people.
Exactly. Even if he said he was Napoleon as long as he was not an immediate threat to himself or others priority one is treatment. But I watch a lot of medical stuff and so many people are being dismissed by ER doctors. Doctor told woman to take teenaged daughter home without even taking vitals. Kid had 105F temp and had sepsis! Mom drove like mad to another hospital & saved her daughter.
Add this to the list of Ascension's incompetence. While thinking his 5 years in an oldies act that hasn't charted in almost 60 years makes him famous is is questionable it would have been easy enough to verify on the Tops' Wikipedia page.
Oh, and after twenty years in the industry I've never seen a straightjacket outside of the movies. What's used are restraints and it's always the last resort when dealing with mental health patients. Also, be aware that crazy people get sick, including heart attacks, too.
BUT BUT..... I AM NAPOLEON!!
If he was on oxygen that means they must have taken his sats and saw he was hypoxic. For them to take him off oxygen because they thought he was mentally unstable is outright malpractice.
Not an absolute. People can be placed on oxygen even if their sat is sufficient.
@@mph5896 bullshite.
@@Exiled.New.Yorkerfirst off, O2 is the first thing they do to help supplemental oxygen which also helps relax the patient
You know one thing that can cause delusions and confusion? Hypoxia. If you have someone with signs of a major cardiac issue, and they also appear to be confused, you would think you would proceed under the assumption that the confusion is caused by the cardiac trouble, rather than the other way around.
Not necessarily hypoxic. If they have a complaint of chest pain, you put them on oxygen to give them the best chance to keep oxygen going to the heart muscle. They don't have to be hypoxic for that. But certainly removing it if he still had chest pain was malpractice if they removed it because they thought he was nuts.
As an RN, we can initiate restraints. I hate restraints. Don't like using them. If someone said they were the pope, that is not grounds to put in restraints.
Meanwhile, nurses in mental health facilities are the fastest to put someone in restraints as the first response to something as simple as a mild complaint.
Rarely have I seen a group who do collectively seem to have an active disdain for their patients.
I've been to the hospital multiple times for mental health stuff (mostly my early panic attacks when I legit thought I was dying and once when I was very close to hurting myself) and not once was being restrained an option even though a few times I'd say it could have been. Saying you are someone else is definitely not grounds and probably would make everything worse.
I can't remember how many patients I had to help leash because they thought the president was in danger. Then turned around and named different presidents as the current one in the same day.
Aren't restraints only allowable if the person is showing signs of potential violence? Agitated state and actions that lead you to believe they will lash out? As you said, claiming to be the Pope isn't signs of impending violence.
@@Just-J-10 First President of the US, John Hanson.
Being put in a straitjacket when you are not a danger to yourself or others is a form of torture.
it also should be used as a last resort. wtf? this hospital needs to be sued
same if you have a form of claustrophobia where being restrained can cause immense mental anxiety.
I would also add assault and illegal detention/imprisonment
It's torture either way.
@@JoshSweetvale If I understand your position, you think that the hospital was right to put him in a straight jacket? If so, being delusional isn't the same thing as being violent. The straight jacket was absolutely an overreaction, and ceasing medical treatment is just the cherry on top of this lunacy.
It's terrifying how easily medical personnel can strip you of your civil rights.
Yep, even the doctors in Star Trek who take away the captain's control of the ship with a medical diagnosis.
Appeal to authority.
It's crazy when I hear stories like this. I work in a hospital system. Nobody wants to hold people against their will. 72 hour psych holds are an important tool, but I've never met a doctor or nurse that WANTS to use them. They will do everything within their power to get the patient in and out as quickly as possible. To hear about doctors and nurses going above and beyond to purposely hold someone is nuts to me.
Hospitals won't let you drive your car in the parking lot if there is no one to pick you up after a stay. My truck was in the outpatient parking lot so a grandson delivering flowers picked me up and drove me to my truck.😮
It's seriously disturbing the amount of superiority complexes you find in healthcare. If they're bad HPCs, they treat you like livestock, if they're good the treat you like a beloved pet, but no matter what, a whole lot of them think you're beneath them.
Confidence is important in any field where lives are on the line, but the level of dehumanization we force onto our patients is wildly inappropriate and unprofessional.
Let's just pretend that he is delusional and thinks that he is in the Four Tops. What does that have to do with getting emergency medical care? He wasn't a danger to anyone. If he wants to go through life pretending that he sings in the Four Tops group then what is the harm? A lot of people go through life thinking that they are better than they are. So what? Even delusional people deserve to have emergency medical care.
The guy was an actual newer member of The Four Tops and had evidence of him with the band at The Grammys.
@@ThundercatDarklion They know that. They are posing a hypothetical question. This guy ended up not being delusional and that made the hospital look even stupider, but what if he was delusional? That still wouldn't be a reason to stop emergency medical care. Treat the emergency before worrying about his mental state. The only exception is if they are a danger to themselves or others.
@@ThundercatDarklion Ya. We know. The point @dorenandsara was making was WHO CARES as long as he is not violent.
Let's be fair here. If I happened to be doing a shift in a hospital where Donald Trump walked in and claimed to be Donald Trump, I would be really really tempted to look for a straitjacket and a ball gag.
I probably wouldn't do it. But man, fighting off that temptation would be hard.
There's a prejudice rampant in much of the medical community. Basically, if one has any kind of mental health issue, they are automatically not "allowed" to have a medical condition. Whatever physical symptoms they are experiencing are by definition "all in their head." Because they're crazy, ya know.
What is really disturbing is that if they are having heart issues, it can effect cognitive ability. So why did it matter? Treat the patient.
Chronic atrial fibrilation causes vascular dementia and an elevated stroke risk. My stepfather has it. He can't remember anything for more than 15 minutes.
@bronyinsticks There has always been money in pill pushing there has never been money in solving peoples problems.
The two industries need cash cows those are needed even at the patients own quality of life. It's just money its made up pieces of paper with faces on it
Apparently, they thought his wife, who confirmed his statement, was also having delusions since they clearly didn't believe her.
How damn dangerous is a 50+-year-old man in the midst of heart attacks that he needs to be in a straightjacket, even IF he was lying about being in the Four Tops?
This man should be allowed to sue the doctors and guard directly as well as the hospital.
I think he can. Unlike the police, they don't have qualified immunity. The hospital and the insurance companies will most likely be the ones paying out if/when he wins. I'm not sure what effect it would have on the guard, beyond losing their job. For the doctor, losing a case like that will make malpractice insurance coverage a lot more expensive. Even if the hospital pays for that, it will make it hard to find a better paying position elsewhere.
@@BD-xz6te That's why you always push for criminal charges. Insurance cant pay out for prison time!
@@BD-xz6te The security guard could lose his state license/certification which would effectively end his carrier in security since most companies require that.
@@mavericksetsuna7396 Which, in turn, is a reason why intelligent people don't want to be doctors.
multiple criminal charges not just money
My nephew went to hospital with chest pains. He was sent home because the nurses said he was on drugs. He died of a heart attack a few hours later. Those nurses should be charged 😮
I'm so sorry for your family's loss. Please report them to the medical board.
I am with you with that. Stuff like that isn't right whatsoever. Sorry your family had to go though something like that.
I am so sorry for your loss. It is one thing to miss something, but when it is entirely because they are acting on prejudice and judgment that should be criminal. They are essentially choosing who is worthy of treatment or even life and death.
Woke up with double pneomonia, in a panic I called the 24 hour doctor. He said that I can't be too bad if well enough to phone him and what do I expect him to do? I struggled to get to my parents house, they then had to dial 999 for an ambulance as my heart was eratic. I was admitted with blue lips. I shouldnt have called the doctor and wasted his precious time.
What. Even if he was on drugs, some drugs can cause heart attacks. What those nurses did to your nephew is beyond stupid, I’m so sorry for your loss.
I remember the story of - Woody Guthrie - was picked up by the police (it turned out years later of his Huntington disease) and taken to the mental hospital. He was trying to tell the staff that he was Woody Guthrie and he traveled the country in a box car train playing guitar, etc. The hospital called his wife up and told her all these "delusional stories" - she told them "that's all true"
They literally ignored his wife, who confirmed his identity. I'm surprised his wife wasn't also thrown into a straight jacket, but at that point they were probably just doubling down and NEEDED to be right.
Bingo!
This is a multi-million dollar lawsuit. I'm a RN, this 100% should not have happened. There are protocols for this (that they obviously didn't follow).
But it's not; it's perhaps a few tens of thousands, maybe less. Only actual damages should be paid; hell, some people would be amused by this.
@@UncleKennysPlace NO! It's like going to prison and being innocent. You don't know when or if you will ever get out. Maybe tomorrow maybe never! It in-prisons not only your body but your mind. It should not be actual damages. At a minimum it should be high enough to change the protocols from it ever happening again.
@@resterAnonymeso you think this guy was laying on the hospital bed, said that he was a member of the band and the nurse just grabbed a straight jacket? Have you considered the possibility that there could be more to the story?
@@resterAnonyme Yep. The big $$$ payout is not all about compensation. It is to force change.
@@cycleboy8028except our system is set up so that judges can't just enforce huge punitive payments on moral grounds, because that's a terrible idea. They have to demonstrate how the damage and recklessness is commensurate.
Why would you stop emergency treatment!?!?!?! Mental health status would be a secondary issue. Pull the license of that doctor!!!!
Far too many medical staff have developed the same confirmation bias tunnel vision that is rife in police departments across the country. Once an idea is lodged in their heads, they are unable to recognize data or facts that don't match their premise.
@@priestessofkek2406 This also happens to morbidly obese people all the time in the medical field, you have a broken leg, you just need to diet and exercise to fix your broken leg. Having a heart attack all you need to do is diet and exercise and that will cure your heart attack. I am sure it happens to all other kinds of people as well in the hospital with tunnel vision.
It’s not unheard of for people who have suffered trauma to hallucinate. So even if he wasn’t a 4 Top, how does that affect his heart attack?
Reminds me of the kind of care I got at my old local hospital. I'm having migraines; they prescribe strong anti psychotics. I'm not crazy lady. O_o;
The doctor said they were going to get me a note for missing work. They kept stalling, and asking why I hadn't left yet when they returned to the room. I kept reminding them, I asked for a note for work. They finally give it to me. Another time the surgeon walked in asking if I was the one receiving kidney treatment. No, I'm not having kidney issues, they had the wrong patient's results. Thats irresponsible and dangerous potentially, had I not corrected him I could have easily gotten them to break patient confidentiality. I would be afraid to be at the mercy of staff who have no idea who they're treating and could mix up results. or just decide to label you crazy and refuse to treat you.
Staff was bullying a teen, laughing at him for stumbling into walls after they over medicated him. They called him "rhino".
Certain professions attract the kind of people who have a sadistic desire in having control over others to gratify their power trip. I've watched cops lock people up on false charges, call in five cops during a routine traffic stop just to intimidate and harass.
Sadly a lot, (not all) authority figures abuse their position of power.
Try living homeless for a short while, you will find out quickly how little they care. The police and hospital, put us in a dangerous situation. We could have died walking freezing cold without a map while trying to get back to our only shelter my broken-down car. They demanded we get transported to the hospital, after examination, they gave us bus passes, for the bus that wasn't unning by the time they discharged us. I was terrified of my ex who had become deranged and violent, but after the situation the police and hospital put us in, I had no faith if I reported domestic violence/ kidnapping i wouldn't just have no access to money and be left starving with no way to get home. I finally got out of the situation after a ride to Bethany, the police there were actually helpful, the town helped me contact my parents and finally brought my abduction to an end. I finally had my faith restored a little. So many bad actors made this situation so much worse, made me have to stay with my violent abductor.
Unless your white, male, fit, and wealthy, your healthcare will always be secondary to your subservience. It's why I left nursing.
Why is it that every time a company gets caught treating people horribly, they issue a statement that basically claims they always have and always will treat people wonderfully?
Is it their way of saying "We'll never change"?
Thoughts and prayer
They probably just copy/paste the same boiler plate corporate nonsense from the previous incident.
Probably because it helps protect them from further legal ramifications, if it is an uncommon occurrence for this kind of medical malpractice they are liable for less damages than say if it came across like this hospital has a habit of mistreatment patients.
Because they know the corporate stenographer reporters will open their palm for a coin and spread their legs wide and simply reprint the statement without question.
The detail that wasn't in the story you read was that the guard got in his face and yelled "get your black ass back in that chair" when he kept protesting the mistreatment being inflicted on him. That's the racial profiling mentioned in the lawsuit. I believe every state has laws against abduction and everybody involved in this travesty should be arrested for violating it.
Exactly, they refused treatment , ignored his wife, and put his life in danger and racist abuse, a hate crime.
I hope he sues them for 100 million and gets every cent.
Delusional behaviour can also be a symptom of a serious medical problem as well. Hospital was definitely negligent on this one
Yes, UTIs, in elderly people, can often cause mental illness!
Absolutely. Not sure it was racially motivated, though. I could see an old white guy saying he was a member of the beach boys running into the same doubts. It will effect his payout some, as it being racially motivated would incur malfeasance, instead of just neglect. It is understandable they thought him possibly in need of a mental acuity check. It is neglect/malpractice they committed him without checking out the veracity of his story. They skipped a major step not even attempting to verify his story.
@@drwoo6090 My mother was in hospital for an operation on a broken hip. When I visited I found her to be incoherant. She wasn't even sure who I was. I asked the nurses what had caused this and she just glibly said "It's just age, she's senile". I assured the nurse that my mother is NOT senile. Nobody goes from totally lucid to having advanced altziemers overnight. I then had to argue the point that she was perfectly fine the day previous. I then argued, unless they've given her something to cause these symptoms then she must be suffering from something.
I refused to leave the building until they took the issue seriously. They ran tests and found she was suffering from a UTI. As soon as they started treating her, her mental faculties came back literally over night.
$25 dollars, at a hospital, what's that buy, a single Q tip? Half an advil?
For 25 dollars they'll rub some 'tussin on it.
A paper cup in the cafeteria.
a cotton swab made in china, but not a Q tip
Wanna bet it wouldn't buy either of those? :(
It's half off a FREE ENEMA
Hospitals work hard to create monopolies, and when you make monopolies you can have such terrible service.
So find the CEO and show up at their home with 30,000 people and signs.
@@nickybeingnicky Also the board of trustees. Each hospital has up to 20 of them.
@@bartsanders1553 corporations don't have trustees on their boards. Trustees serve on school boards and township boards as elected officials. Corporations have directors.
@@willdwyer6782 Non-profits have trustees regardless of how they really function.
@@nickybeingnickyYou know very well that police would put a stop to that. The CEO can command orders to law enforcement with a phone call.
If they had given him a lobotomy, would they have offered him a $50 gift card?
No, you get $25 plus $5 for an accidental lobotomy. $50 is only for negligent homicide, but when you go to cash it, it bounces. Don't ask me how a gift card can bounce, hospitals work in strange ways.
I dont know of anyone who has gone to the hospital in the last 20 years who felt the hospital thought that their health was top priority
Absolutely
Laughs in Europe
I don’t get any medical care in the US if I can possibly help it. The doctors and nurses… try there. They do. They just can’t do their jobs right because they’re fighting a system. They’re paying attention to their computers. They don’t make eye contact. They hate women. They’re overworked. It’s not their faults. It’s just the reality that the US has abysmal health care.
Yep
sure it is its just the health of your bank account and the bank account of your insurance company
another concern, is the current policy to immediately restrain the mentally ill at this hospital??? Based on nothing other than "well we thought you were crazy sooooo."
Depends on the patient, if he'd walked in and said he was a woman they'd have rolled out the red carpet.
@@tarrantwolf And supplied her with Tampons.
Oh, wait, she was 53, so probably already went through menopause. 🙄
Maybe they just really didn't like the band lol. It is bizarre to imagine how you can actually come in and give them a fake name or an assumed identity or tell them you are a different gender or potentially even a different race or species, but when you tell them you're in a band that's where they draw the line. Like they don't put people with dementia in a straight jacket, what were they thinking?
@@rinardman*Manopause lol
It's almost as if you're only hearing the information that is advantageous to the guy in the story, but none of the information that actually led to the hospital doing this (assuming they actually did it).
I'm a physician. I've had to stop such treatment because the "emergency department" decided to jump to conclusions and lock someone up in psych room when they had actual medical problems. So glad I'm done being a hospitalist.
Thank you for doing the right thing. Although I hope you still care for others as you did then.
I don't understand this in the slightest because it's been well known for decades things like diabetic crisis can be mistaken for being drunk or mentally off, and that's just one medical condition off the top of my head that medical professionals should recognize for what it is. *I am not even a medical professional* Where did they get their certifications, clown school?
@@impishrebel5969 Busy ED run by RNs and not physicians is the most common cause.
I had an emergency with my heart and the ER treated me like crap until the drug test they gave me came back negative for coke and meth. Then they became helpful.
Been there. I was T-boned and knocked unconscious coming home from grocery shopping. The other driver ran the light - but he was conscious and I wasn't.
According to the EMTs (I woke up in the ambulance) who had kindly brought along my 2 bags of groceries, the guy had a temper tantrum. They said anyone reacting the way that guy did is usually trying to distract attention from himself. The EMT asked me if I had been drinking, as the other driver demanded I be tested for alcohol. I woke up with my usual sarcasm completely intact and said "Last time I checked they don't serve alcohol at Trader Joe's". The EMT laughed, said that's what he thought and apparently that's what the police thought or they would be meeting us at the hospital to arrest me as soon as the blood test came back positive.
At the ER I was treated like dirt. No one would answer any questions, they wouldn't come in the room - nothing. But as soon as that blood test came back negative for booze (I don't drink, BTW. I barely sip the champagne at the wedding toast. It just doesn't agree with me any more) they were all over me.
Must have been 3 nurses, a couple orderlies and 2 doctors checking the profusely bleeding scalp wound (Looked worse than it was. I just happened to have a white sweater on. No stitches), getting me water, asking a zillion questions, checking my vitals, ordering x-rays - you name it.
But not until AFTER they were sure I hadn't been drinking.
Just plain shitty behavior.
That particular hospital does have a reputation for having an attitude problem with anyone brought in that is suspected of drinking or drugging. I had heard about it, even seen it myself when I brought someone there that had been in a bar, but his injury had nothing to do with his drinking beer. I just never imagined it would happen to me.
An injured person is deserving of aid in a hospital. That is their function. Not to make judgement calls on whether someone should be treated because of whatever they may have been doing when they got the injury.
We live in strange times.
I know a disabled veteran who has multiple medical diagnoses, some of them quite serious, and some directly related to her service in the US military. She also carries a mental health diagnosis. Multiple experiences with VA hospital personnel have proved that, in essence, a person with a mental health diagnosis is automatically lying when they complain about a (very real) medical condition.
We must know the same person!
I kid. The VA is just that terrible, and the American people should be ashamed of themselves every goddamned day.
I’m in the same boat (he he I was USN). Chronic debilitating pain. After being on pain meds for 7 years and still not dependent on them, the VA decided to cut me off cold turkey because they were worried I was going to or were addicted. I always made sure I made my script last longer just to show them I wasn’t.
They put in a neural stimulator that I can’t use because it makes my left leg numb and useless! Gotta love the VA
A patient actually died in the waiting room of the OKC Veterans hospital years ago. But they have fixed everything now....Edit, it was 2017 and it was in a stairwell.
@@brokendad2222
Really? I have my doubts
I am a 100% disabled veteran with both physical and mental health issues. I'm a cancer survivor.
I sometimes get treated like I'm crazy when I'm seen for physical problems.
I think a $25 million judgement to match the $25 gift card sounds about right. And it’s a perfect award to that poor guy for the hospital’s malpractice and negligence.
Took him off oxygen?! Are you kidding me???
A gift card for 25 dollars is a bigger insult than the straight jacket
That was what I was thinking. Talk about adding insult to injury!
Literally 😂
I think it will help the patient's lawsuit. The hospital is admitting they f'd up.
@@janine1986-r7cMy bet is the insurance company will offer a “settlement” to make this all go away.
"Here's a quarter...call someone who cares..." smh
I bet they still billed him for the mental health "evaluation".
In which case they also need to go after the hospital for fraud and extortion
If they did, not only they told on themselves, but it also opens whole another can of fraud.
@@mpmansellLol.
Sue a corporation. With what money?
There are options, as well as loud publicity and public accusations . Of course, if you want to be defeatist and help assholesbe assholes, go ahead, but it doesn't make you look clever or respectable. Just makes everyone see that you are a big part of the problem.
Lazy emergency personnel. They didn't care about his medical condition. It's a crying shame.
I cannot for the LIFE of me understand why they would put a straitjacket on someone who has shown no indication of being violent. It is grotesque. That alone should be actionable. If nothing else it should count as assault.
This is the same hospital that made my mother and I sit in the emergency waiting for 45 minutes after my father had already past because the security officer never notified medical staff that his family had arrived.
Sounds like real winners. I know one hospital help cover up a homicide committed by a cop. Another hospital was working with the state to take babies into foster care. IDK why so many hospitals will work with the state against their patients.
Do you mean he died while waiting??? EDIT: I misread what you said.
@@johnwesley256 The children are not the permanent property of their parents, and their parental rights can be terminated if they are a danger/not representing the best interests of their children. If the hospital was working with the state, it is due to the hospital calling/reporting the parents for suspected child abuse and are handing over the evidence to child protective services that prove their claims of said abuse.
I am so sorry. There is very little that is harder than losing a parent. You should have been allowed to be with him. Big city hospitals just stop caring at some point. Hugs and love to you.
condolences on your loss
Why are they putting someone who shows no signs of being a danger to themself or others, but merely seems to have a harmless delusion, in a straitjacket? That's about at the level of a police officer tazing someone for insulting them.
It makes no sense. Almost without fail, when people ascribe a nonsensical motivation to someone else, it's because they're lying through omission about the actual motivation. Maybe the facts are right, but by saying they did it because of an identity mix-up it's glossing over the fact that there was also an accompanying freakout.
It might also be that employees at the hospital really were just champing at the bit for a chance to try out a straightjacket. But I'd expect the narrative in that case to be "they put me in a straightjacket, and I don't know why" rather than "and I'm certain it was for a specific reason, despite that reason being completely illogical."
Don't get me wrong, the hospital almost certainly mishandled the situation. But there's almost no chance that the narrative being spun is complete.
@@G.Aaron.Fisher Sure, that is about what I was thinking. I suspect it isn't just this guy and instead they are just regularly using restraints for convenience and cost savings (rather than waiting until there is a demonstrable cause for them). I'm also guessing there is essentially zero oversight.
The police tazing someone because of an insult? That’s crazy but crazier is that it has happened a few time.
Maybe he got violently agitated because he was in bad condition and they were treating him like he was crazy? That's the only thing I can think of. Doesn't look good for them!
@@jessicav2031 The plus side there would be no qualified immunity!
Doctors know even crazy people can be seriously ill physically, right? Right? 😬
I hope the staff get sued personally, this was a failure to deal with his medical needs and the assulted and restrained him.
I can't believe that the hospital even had a straight jacket. Those things are so dangerous.
strait-jacket
Irony is a man claiming to be one of the four tops while medical hospital claiming to be a mental health facility. 😮
Where do you think they take people to be assessed for mental issues? It often happens in a hospital. Most emergency departments have a psych room. And many hospitals have psych wards. But I do agree that the medical staff were wrongly claiming to be competent medical professionals.
Medical staff thinking they are God.
The city where I grew up had a multi floor hospital (like many others) and one of the floors was designated for the mental folks.
@@CognitiveHeatsink No, I worked in a psych hospital _and_ a medical hospital. They are VERY different.
@@seanwatts8342 mental health assessments can be done in a medical hospital. I've worked in hospitals also.
Reminds me of a story Henry Cavill tells about his nephew telling his teacher his uncle was superman and his teacher chastising his nephew for lying.
A very well-known movie actor and director had a ::cough:: secret child. (I knew the child's mother.) One day the child (who had been given his mother's surname at birth) went to school and excitedly told everyone that his daddy had won an Academy Award. The teacher called the mother and said we have a problem, your child thinks his father is [famous actor]. To which the mother replied, [famous actor] IS his father!
A friend of mine who immigrated to the US got in trouble in elementary school because she “claimed” that she had been in Paris. Her teacher corrected her, saying “Paris, GA” (for example), while she insisted it was “Paris, France”. Parents got called in and they were not amused.
@@absurdengineering Why would the teacher not believe they had been to _the_ Paris? They dont _like_ foreigners there, but they let them in to take their money.
Like Depps child insisting to his class his dad was a real pirate. Came in in makeup to prove it.
@@natehill8069Beats me. Probably had some wild preconceived ideas about the family’s economic status or something? Hard to tell.
I’m not so sure about not liking foreigners. The kid went to school there for a couple of years, lol, and could speak French. The teacher was obnoxious.
This is so sick!?! It sounds like the hospital is delusional, hope they pay for this!
There is no one more delusional than a doctor who jumps to conclusions, after listening to too much Eminem
My doctor insisted that I’m a street drug addict (I’m not) and that my husband beat me (30 yrs he’s never shown violence toward anyone).. when I denied his baseless claims he treated me like I was lying & kept demanding that I be honest (when I was being 100% truthful). Because this egocentric liar put these untruths in my medical file, every new dr I visit now gives my husband the most hate-filled looks of disgust. I fired the man, but the damage is done! Our medical system has become an arrogant, absurd, greedy and reckless disgrace!!
@@ExploreOhioWilderness It also does not help when men are automatically presumed guilty of DV/SA when allegations are made with zero evidence and the men have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the BS story never happened. It makes you wonder how many men who got convicted of DV/SA are wrongfully convicted and were forced into classes being made to admit to crimes/actions they never committed.
@@toolman1990 prob a lot of men.. there just isn’t any way to prove innocence! Smh
They were willing to pay $25 ;-)
Having been an EMS First Responder...for God's sake, treat the patient NOW, and forget the formality nonsense. ❤
I wonder if Steve talked about that clip of first responders calling the cops to have a guy having a medical emergency removed from an ambulance. Apparently he latched onto one of the EMTs while complaining about breathing issues. Obviously the guy was panicking because he was dying, but apparently this wasn't deemed a serious enough issue to warrant continuing to the hospital nor was it deemed important enough for the cops to rush him to the hospital when they showed up. Instead they forced him to get out of the ambulance and left him to wander over to a bench on a street corner and before he even properly sat down on it he passed out and slammed into the pavement so hard he started bleeding from his head. And even after watching him collapse the EMTs and cops decided to ignore him for about two minutes. Apparently at this point one of the cops realized he was losing a rather noticeable amount of blood.
Sadly the man died about two weeks later while in the hospital's care, but one does have to wonder if he would have survived if the EMTs or cops had simply rushed him to the hospital for treatment. As far as I know only one person lost their job over this screw up.
Heard this once while working in an ED, "A psychiatric diagnosis is not cardioprotective."
My next door neighbor did all things Goth while in college decades earlier. He also played football until the opposing coach ordered the team to "take him out" which they did. The result was a terrible compound fracture that occasionally got infected for the rest of his life.
During one of these stays, after giving him serious opioids for pain, they did a mental health quiz and asked him if he had ever considered suicide. Given his former Goth associations he stupidly answered yes.
The result was they took him out of treatment and locked him in room in the psychiatric wing without even a TV to watch. All he could do was lay on the bed for three days. His wife and connected friends spent three days getting a court order to release him and continue treatment.
This is not the only abuse by that hospital I know of but it hit closest to this incident.
Yeah, if you answer honestly to any mental health questions in a hospital, you're getting locked up, and if you weren't suffering from depression before you got to the loony bin, you sure as hell will be if you stay there for more than a day. They treat you like trash, and give you less to do and less rights than jail offers.
"Have you ever experienced delusions or halucination?"
"Once, years ago, when I hadn't slept in four days."
Proper response, according to their own training: "that is a normal biological response when your brain hasn't had sleep for that long. Has it happened since?" "No." "Ok, then let's not worry about that."
What they will do because they are under pressure to make money by involuntary incarceration: "patient reports history of delusions and hallucinations."
And anything you answer will be twisted like that. All you can do is deny everything, and even then they might take you in, if they've made up their minds. They aren't above straight lies, and who are people going to believe? The crazy person, or the professional?
@@bluedistortions Don't forget their favorite go-to, "patient is delusional/in denial/lying."
Yup, you have more rights in jail than you do at a hospital.
I am autistic and religious and learned the hard way that i MUST lie to doctors about mental health questions. They usually think autism symptoms and faith in God are bipolar disorder 🤦♀️ 9:10
@@AliciaGuitar Typical. I took an elective in psychology in college because I thought it would be interesting given I do human machine interfaces, and I needed an elective. The vast majority in the class wanted to get into some kind of practice "helping others" but the sad truth is they were there to figure out their own problems and that wasn't happening. I personally regurgitated the material on the exams and pretty much noped my way out of the whole business. It's rare to find someone in this business who's saner than their patients.
The fact that this hospital completely mishandled the situation, not only failing to assist someone in medical distress but RESTRAINING HIM, and then trying to pass off a gift card like "our bad, will unlimited salad and breadsticks at Olive Garden fix this?" is absolutely unthinkable. I hope they get made to look even more foolish in court.
Just last year I went into outpatient to put a stent in. Right after they finished and was taking everything off I kept telling them my chest hurts my chest hurts and trying to sit up. The nurse keeps saying everything is ok I need to lay still so I don't start bleeding. I continue to tell them all the way back to my room and when they got me hooked back up to the monitors they seen I was having a heart attack the entire time and rushed me back to the operating room. I don't remember making it back there because the next thing I remember was waking up in cardiac ICU. But wait there's more!! That night I was woken up by the night nurse and I grumbled about how you can't get sleep in the hospital and she went off on me telling me if I didn't like it leave!! Hospitals suck now and so do nurses 😢
Modern medicine is a snake oil money printing machine
Omg! Glad you made it out of there! Jeesh!
If the nurse tells you if you don’t like the care then you can leave, and you do, presumably you’re not leaving AMA so they’re still responsible for your welfare, right?
A whole lot of people at that Hospital need to be FIRED and consider themselves lucky to not be charged with felony battery and kidnapping.
I didn't need another reason not to trust the pharmaceutical complex, but now I have one.
Why wouldnt you investigate the chestpains!?
Someone could be deluded about their identify AND still have those medical issues.
This is just shameful
If anything it can be an indication you need to check for things like stroke or blood vessel rupture in the brain, both things that heart disease is a risk factor for.
Why the hell did they STOP medical treatment?? Even if he WAS delusional, he needed medical treatment!!
They probably thought: if you lie about your identity, you lie about your symptoms
$25? Aren’t hospital staff supposed to be smarter than that?
I think you’re putting too much trust in the healthcare system.
They're in the extortion business.
Are these Common Core graduates😱where 3+3=8🤦♀️
There once was a time when I automatically assumed that we could, and should, trust the professionals (on whatever the matter).
Twice, in the last 6 months, I have found myself in the emergency room. On both occasions, they asked _me_ what I thought the problem was and both times they treated me off of what _I_ told them Google told me. (Of course I'm going to Google my symptoms, who the fuck doesn't do that?) And both times I was sent home, without any answers, because they refused to do their own assessment or even do any blood work, which _would_ have answered ALL their questions. 😶
EDIT to add: They _were_ very keen on imaging, but no blood work. On the second occasion (I stepped on a rusty nail and my tetanus was 20 years over due and two weeks later my neck and jaw became too stiff and tight) they offered to give me an X-ray. WTH for? I have no freaking clue. I figure that's where they make the most $, according to the hospital bills...
Article says it was 90 minutes of detainment, so the staff probably viewed it as a small oopsie during their 12-hour shift rather than the (legitimately) traumatic event it was. A white security guard was apparently also saying some racist shit to him as they were detaining him. It sounds like if his wife wasn't there to alert the other staff (after she was ignored by the staff detaining him) things could've easily gotten worse. Maybe it was one of the other staff that was just brought upon the scene that offered the giftcard without understanding everything that happened.
That’s a pretty great example of the state of our health care industry
Even if he had been "mentally ill" medical staff are still REQUIRED BY LAW to continue treatment during an emergency medical event.
The fact that they not only didn't treat him properly they actually stopped some life saving treatment by removing his oxygen.
There needs to be criminal charges lodged for the felony crime of Medical Assault these so-called medical professionals performed by subjecting him to a straight jacket.
Then there needs to be AMA complaints filed and hearings for Failure to Provide Emergency Treatment to have their medical licenses revoked.
The healthcare system is beyond broken in this country.
Next to the whole Judicial System, Private prisons and the lining of wallets?
not for the stockholders of the hospitals
Beat me to it
🎯
Then what do you call Canada where MAID is commonly recommended and used?
Everyone involved in putting him in the straight jacket should spend a month in jail, in a straight jacket
This started with a paranoid doctor and the others did what they where told, I'm betting. Filter your hires.
strait-jacket
As an RRT-ACCS Almost any experienced medical provider knows that a medical condition CAN cause confusion. It amazes me that they didn't continue his medical work up. Also I haven't seen an actual straight jacket in over 30 years. If they actually used one they are medically dangerous for a variety of reasons.
Modern doctors: First, do harm.
First do? No! Harm.
His delusion was thinking you would be able to get emergency medical treatment in a hospital emergency room.
Even if a patient was having delusional thoughts a straight jacket is not standard procedure unless a patient is violent.
I’d definitely have reservations about receiving treatment from a medical facility that puts a mental health exam over a potential heart problem. Sounds like they have a “death care” protocol in place.
If I didn't know better, I would think this hospital was TRYING to get sued, especially because 10-second Google search would have confirmed his claim.
Why does that claim even matter? It's irrelevant to his need for care.
@CertifiedClapaholic cause it shows gross negligence and that if they truly believed their own bs they could have checked. It shows they didn't give an f.
Karens going to Karen.
Not that it's any justification, but the original members of the four tops were twenty-something in the sixties, so I can see why they'd be confused.
The claim I still need confirmed is that they put him in a straitjacket because he claimed to be a member of the tops, and not because of some other action or pattern of actions on his part. Because that doesn't make any sense.
so it's more important to restrain a patient because you think he's lying about being a celebrity rather than treating a health problem??
Punishment.
So they didn't believe his wife when she backed him?
She's lucky they didn't put her in a straight jacket. 😮
That's simply incredible stupidity on the hospital staff .
They thought she might have the same complexion.
Now consider the following. You were admitted to this robot asylum. Therefore, you must be a robot. Diagnosis complete.
I am a foodmotron. Here are some sandwiches from my compartment.
Even if he was delusional this is no excuse to use restraints. Restraints, chemical or physical, can only be used if someone is physically violent. This also against APA code of ethics and whoever ordered the restraints needs to lose their medical license.
The proper response was: "Just lie down quietly and let us take care of your heart problem."
About 40 years ago, a member of the Ink Spots went to the church we did. It was a small church, and he was most of the Choir.
That's so wonderful that you got to meet him! The choir must have sounded fantastic, little or not.
Oh you lucky dog you!
Thar must have been awesome!
Bet nobody had to talk you into going to church on Sunday - like EVER!
at least the hospital didnt give him a "break one leg & we'll break the other leg for free" card.
I know that hospital. I hope his family sues Ascension Macomb-Oakland. I grew up near that hospital. The gift card was a gift card to Meijer's, a local version of Walmart.
I ended up in that hospital with early organ failure. They somehow cured me. They were awesome. The worst part of my 10 week stay was for 3 weeks I wasn't allowed food or water. I had only an IV and feeding tube. Once that tube came out and they let me order food I was so hungry. They have awesome food. And a whole restaurant style menu to boot
The same chain that stupidly clicked on malware and started a cyber attack. Suddenly this story makes sense, they're a train wreck.
@@andrewbatts7678 My dad is currently in Ascension Rochester and is getting over a bout with diverticulitis and a bout with afib. He was on a feeding tube for a while. He was in ICU, and he's in a regular room now. He starts soft foods today. He comes home on the weekend. He gets his antibiotic IV removed today.
@@docsavage4921 Yep, think about all those medical records falling into the wrong hands!
@@docsavage4921 I can't confirm that the executives of that health system are more interested in their bonuses and stock options than patient care, because my severance for 18 years of employment was predicated on not disparaging the health system. That said, I can say that sometimes you end up with cliches in nursing groups because nobody else wants to work with them, and you end up with this sort of mentality which results in bad outcomes like this. Inevitably, as a business, the management all the way up the chain is responsible for these types of events. This isn't the first time a bad call like this was made, you can bet on that.
I'm a retired nurse, worked ICUs, Trauma, Life Flight for decades. I have initiated restraints hundreds of times per protocol. NEVER for non-harmful conditions.
Physical and chemical (sedation) restraints are strictly regulated. Restraints NEVER stop emergency, life saving care. Often when a person is in a code or ICU they have altered consciousness and try to pull their out their lines so we initiate physical restraints, but remove them once they no longer are a risk to themselves.
That hospital and all their staff is now under microscope scrutiny by the accreditation organization and will be for years.
First, thank you. But are restraints the same as a strait jacket? I've had relatives be exactly as you've mentioned-due to the circumstances they're not thinking clearly and try to remove IVs or get out of bed. Their wrists were loosely fastened to the bed rails until they were themselves again. A strait jacket seems like it would preclude certain treatments.
@@dianeladico1769 heck, even bed rails can be considered a restraint if they are being used to restrict someone's movement.
@@beachbri Good point. It just strikes me that a strait jacket is cannon/mosquito logic.
I am blessed to be a pretty healthy specimen, mentally and physically. But I've learned that on the thankfully rare occasions when I'm not at the top of my game, I can behave irrationally. For instance... during the delta wave of COVID I spent part of a night in the emergency room getting IV fluids. They were ready to discharge me at about 3 AM. I had no way to get home (until my neighbor came off his graveyard shift) and taxi drivers were not transporting COVID patients. So I announced that I only lived a mile away and it was all downhill. My nurse said, you are NOT walking home! I was dressed in pajamas and slippers, I didn't have a sweater or a jacket (it was cold outside), part of my path home would have been on the shoulder of a busy highway, and most importantly, I didn't even have a house key with me. What WAS I thinking?? (Easy. I was NOT thinking.) As it turned out, my neighbor, who had a key to my house, was able to leave the work site long enough to take me home.
Good thing I don't think I'm Dolly Parton or something....
@@CrankyBeach As an ER nurse, I've driven dozens of patients home if they can wait until the end of shift and the drive isn't more than a few miles each way.
I'm blessed that I've never been robbed. I'm a big guy, legally conceal carry and have 18 months combat experience, so not a safe target.
mental hospitals being used as prisons, detaining people without charge under the notion of mental wellbeing (which has been shown to do more damage than it prevents in the long term) should be a crime. but its written into law into many places instead. This story just really takes it to another level.
There should be criminal charges on this.
I hope he is awarded a decent settlement! The position a straitjacket puts a person in would be very dangerous for someone having cardiac issues -- the "I can't breathe" type of dangerous!
I was once overbilled by a hospital. They wouldn't reimburse me. They offered "Hospital Credit."
They're ran by fraudsters.
Did you offer them a case number?
Maybe he should right a Song about it, like Afro Man, did about the Police Raid on his house.
@@nsahandler I asked them if it was good for a tonsillectomy or something
@@jamiesands3331
Yeah so you are entitled to your money in cash. If you accepted it then you accepted their compensation in-full value from the store.
Anytime someone messes up like that and offers you credit... don't. Just sue them. You don't even need a lawyer for that kind of basic claim.
That should literally be kidnapping. Even if you suspect that a patient has a mental issue, and is not a member of a band, but that is meaningless. When it takes a minute to check, you check. A simple search would have proved he was who he said he was.
It is not enough for civil actions to be the remedy, people who make such decisions need to be accountable for their decisions.
It is kidnapping even if we accepted their original conclusion that he has a delusion of being a famous band member that is not enough to lock him up since he is not a danger to himself or society. I agree there should be criminal charges, but my guess is the DA will not be bothered to press any charges related to this matter.
It is against the law if not used properly. RNs are held to polices and the law when using restraints.
@@BrankoRNtheotherBranko It is against the law, but the DA is not going to enforce the law. Doctors/nurses are rarely held accountable, John Oliver had a series covering medical disciplinary boards and how they rarely hold bad doctors accountable even when they have multiple instances of harming patients due to their incompetence.
Nobody involved will be held accountable... every member of staff will be given paid time for depositions for this case. Hospital administration will say that this was against their policy and they are innocent of any wrongdoing. The security officer will be moved to another clinic (probably with a bump in pay so he moves quietly) as will all the other hospital staff involved. Insurance will quietly pay 2.5 million with a non-disclosure clause/ gag order in the settlement as a nuisance claim so they don't have to defend it.
This reminds me of the Patrick Hollon case. He experienced heat exhaustion/stroke at work and was taken to the hospital. The hospital said he was on drugs and faking it. They injected him with Narcan. Nurses called the police, and Mr. Hollon was arrested. His family got him out of jail and took him to another hospital, where he spent days recovering. The hospital did fire the nurses involved. The police, who did no investigation before the arrest, faced no consequences.
That was that, "don't come around here no more" treatment. RIP Tom Petty❤️.
Back in the day, I was a grad student in psychology and used rats in my research. Unfortunately, I became severely allergic to them. The allergy was followed by Dr. A, who was chief of allergy and immunology at hospital X. During my grad school years, I had also been hospitalized for depression at hospital X. Several times, the allergy would be very bad and my husband would take me to the ER at hospial X. One such visit stands out. I could barely breathe, let alone talk. I told the ER doctor I was allergic to rats, but was unable speak well enough to explain the context. He spent a long time looking at my psych records, before asking me if I was taking my meds, seeing or hearing things, and suggesting I breathe into a paper bag. Once I mentioned Dr. A's name, however, it all changed. I was treated appropriately and the symptoms resolved. This happened 50 years ago, but it has always bothered me that having had a mental health diagnosis preempts obvious signs of physical distress.
For non-Australians: Graham Kennedy was a major Australian TV personallity who was often referred to as the "King of Australian TV".
I used to work with a woman whose husband was called Graham Kennedy but was not the celebrity. One night he went out to buy cigarettes and didn't take ID with him.
While he was out he was involved in a minor trafic accident where he had a minor head injury (nothing serious) and was taken to the hospital as a precaution. He later had to phone his wife to get her to take his ID to the hospital as they would not release him while he thought that he was Graham Kennedy and he needed to prove that that was actually his name.
It seems that we get better treatment in Australia in such circumstances than in the US.
I wonder if they'll send him a bill for the cost of the straight jacket.
The $25 gift certificate was possibly reimbursement for a portion of the cost of renting the straitjacket?
bet on it.
I have had Epilepsy since I was an infant and sometimes after I have a bad seizure or a cluster of seizures I go into Postical Psychosis and have woke up beaten to hell in jail several times because the police we're either at best too stupid to read my Rod of Asclepius MedID necklace and bracelet, which I wear 24-7 or at worst purposely ignored them to make an arrest....That is why I can not stand the police....
Its not just police. Doctors are also prone to calling seizures "psychosis" and "pseudoseizures" and saying you are faking. Especially if you have an unusual seizure disorder like JME.
@@AliciaGuitar Very true, on 2 occasions that I woke up in jail I was taken to the hospital first, and since my PCP and Epileptologist are doctors for that same hospital all my records are in their system which says that not only am I Epileptic that I have a history of Postical Psychosis....Since my last arrest in 2022, where I sat in the county jaiI for 12 days before I saw a judge to get a bond, now I only leave the house for doctors appointments and told my family not to call 911 unless they thought I was going to hurt them or If I hit my head or am bleeding badly....The worst part is I never remember anything that happened, but I have had great Public Defenders who listened to what I told them and used my medical paperwork to get the charges dropped or in the 2022 arrest I was charged with 2 felonies and 2 misdemeanors and a prosecutor bent on a conviction I pled to a single misdemeanor with time serves and 1 year of non-monitored probation with no fines or court costs....But it is on my record....
He MUST sue for the future safety of other patients.
News media, law enforcement, teachers, firefighters, and now doctors... Did any of you ever think the apocalypse would be this lame?
If the hospital was smart, they would settle before this goes to court, make a public apology acknowledging they were wrong and announce changes that will be made to prevent this from happening in the future. It sounds like the guy was blatantly discriminated against since he was not mentally ill and even if he was it is not a crime, and they have to demonstrate that you are a threat to yourself or society in order to lock you away in a mental asylum. That gift card was missing a few zeroes at the end, and I suspect if he accepted the gift card, they would have snuck in somewhere that the amount settles any legal wrongdoing by the hospital.
That's exactly why they offered the gift card to him, it was intended to be the settlement.
it is more complicated than that. Staff must have documented something about him being dangerous and unable to be deescalated to justify a physical restraint. their lawyers will not let them talk... if he was not a danger, their staff lied. if he was perceived as a danger and they said this publicly, they now have released HIPAA information. They are screwed either way.
@@beachbri It is not you would be surprised at how pure incompetence and lack of any safeguards can lead to massive fuckups that can get yourself and your employer into massive legal trouble. I would not be surprised if the hospital tries to come up with a cover story and edit his medical records to cover their asses, but the gift card is a blatant admission of guilt that they royally fucked up and that is going to hurt them if it goes to trial in front of a jury.
@@beachbri Not really. He's suing them. Part of that suit will be providing his medical records to the court, at his own request. If they exonerate the hospital then they're fine (except for all the bad press, since no one will even notice if the hospital is cleared).
@@Wlerin7 if what is being put out is accurate, this is not just a court issue. there are implications that will be very hard for the state and any accrediting bodies to just ignore. the hospital will not speak to this specific case for fear of making it worse. Seclusion and restraint is one of the most closely scrutinized areas of health care and require extensive documentation for a reason.
I worked security in a hospital psychiatric unit for a few years. There were only 2 situations where we were allowed to restrain a patient. The first one was violence against others, and the second one was violence against themselves. Even then, it was usually either a seclusion room or wrist and ankle restraints. I had never even seen a straight jacket in the facility.
Wow, I can't believe I'm watching Jim Morrison of the Doors on RUclips. What a time.
🤣
Who woulda thunk that could happen - right?
😂😅😂
Let’s just acknowledge that if a mild mannered person comes to the ER and reports chest pains and problems breathing but also claims to be Elvis, the critical issue would be the medical complaints! ‘Elvis’ could be dealt with later.
I don't know what's more insulting the straight jacket or the gift card
This is so confusing. If he actually was not in The Four Tops and was mentally ill, what part of that leads to needing a straight jacket? They are not known for anything but gentle fun pop music. If he said "I am Al Capone" then maybe take extra precautions, but a singer in a Motown group? And one of the best ever? That hardly seems threatening. And that's not even mentioning the man was having a life threatening issue. This is how we treat people in emergencies? Do not do. Bad hospital. Bad. Pay up, maties.
The hospital staff involved are obviously the ones who need a straitjacket and padded room. Perhaps Steve should do some sort of contest wherein the audience member who guesses what the settlement amount will be wins some sort of prize. 😜
This would be fun, But we will never hear what the settlement will be as they will probably be settling out of court with a non disclosure in place. Which I think should be public information the people should have the right to know why their medical bills just jumped 10 times what they used to be!
With $25 he could get himself one Tylenol tablet.
A whole tablet?
@@jayskull935Regular strength generic brand only.
Not even....
My husband thought he was having a heart attack. It was acid reflux. Cost $250, for 2 spoons of Mylanta. That was in 1990.
🤣🤣
I think even single plaster is more than that, so it’s exactly the insult they wanted it to be.
This happens to mentally unwell people too. They get misdiagnosed because it has to be the mental condition. But you can be bipolar and have cancer for example.
Your point about being mentally ill but still legitimately having chest pains is spot on. Essentially the hospital has a DeFacto policy of not providing medical care to mentally ill patients.
Guess at this hospital, crazy people don’t deserve to receive medical treatment.
As someone with a mental illness long term - that is correct for every hospital I have attended
in NY, a young woman was locked in the psych ward and given anti psychotics when she had the flu.....
RN with 10 years of hospital experience here. A few things stand out to me. I have NEVER put someone in a straight jacket. When it comes to restraints, we use the least restrictive method possible to protect the patient and the staff. If we can get by restraining just the arms, we do that. If youre strong enough to break the normal restraints, we use leather restraints. The fact that he was restrained leads me to believe there is more to the story, whether that be systemic incompetents or a violent patient i cant say with the information available.
Seizures while in restraints are super dangerous. The fact that it happened 3 times is highly concerning, especially in the setting of pneumonia and NStemi.
Standards of placing supplemental oxygen on a patient with an NStemi is different than a normal person. If the diagnosis of heart problems was thrown out, it doesnt necessarily mean the patient was hypoxic when the oxygen was removed.
Psych meds can often lead to or exacerbate existing heart conditions. If someone presented to the ER with delusional thinking and chest pain, I would 100% be concerned with heart problems. Should be that pneumonia can cause confusion/hallucinations in some cases, however i would argue that pneumonia can lead to acute cardiac concerns as well.
After my husband had brain surgery for tumor removal, he was having delusions after surgery. He was in a bed that had alarms if he got out of bed (fall risk), but he kept getting out so they used the arm restraints. That didn't work, so they came in with one that goes around the waist.
I told them it would take him about 5 seconds to get out of that, but they had to try, I guess.
I took him less than 5 seconds to get out. 😂
I was FINALLY able to reason with him and get him to stay in the bed.
That was quite the experience!
How did "a bit of delusional thinking" turn into restraints? Most people with delusional thinking aren't violent even if they have a disorder. Could the hospital have thought of substance misuse going on?
@@the11382 substance misuse still isn't grounds for restraints. If the patient was a danger to themselves or others, that's a different story. If the hospital felt his mental status was altered and he was trying to leave against medical advice, they may have felt he didn't have the capacity to safely leave and pink slipped him. Honestly I can't say without more information.
@@the11382 There's almost certainly more to the story.
The members of the Four Tops have changed so many times that if someone came into the hospital and claimed they were a member, I’d be inclined to believe them.
That reminds me of a list of fun things to do at a music festival. One of them was tell everyone you're a member of The Polyphonic Spree to get backstage. Nobody will know if you're telling the truth, possibly including the real members.
For reference the Wikipedia article for them lists 25 current members and 94 former members, but it does say that second list is incomplete.
Christian Death are another good one to pretend to be a member of. Wikipedia lists 36 former members for them. At one point there were two different lineups, both touring under, and claiming ownership of, the name.
I went to royal perth hospital with chest pains, palpitations, and chest pressure after i recieved an injection in 2021. I was sent home and told there was nothong wrong.
Turns out i was actually having a very severe adverse reaction to the injection. I was subsequently hospitalised and clinically diagnosed with myopericarditis.
One GP told me i had strain a muscle in my chest. Another GP told me it was indigestion. And another said it was anxiety.
My sysmtoms were consistent with known and published adverse events to the drug I was recently injected with. And yet so many doctors were unable (either unwilling, or incompetent) to come to the obvious conclusion of an adverse event. It was only once my condition had significantly deteriorated, and my 7th attemp at seeking medical help was I actually taken seriously.
In regard to the $25 gift card, I had a brother-in-law who was injured in an oil rig accident and became uninsurable (those were the days before Obamacare guaranteed-issue health insurance). He went into the hospital uninsured and they billed him $25,000 for one night of observation. They gave him a plastic coffee mug with the hospital's logo on it as a souvenir when he checked out. He had to declare bankruptcy to void the medical billing, but mounted the coffee mug on his mantle, calling it "the world's most expensive coffee cup." btw. "Same old Song" is one of my all-time favorites.
That sucks! I have a similar story. My American workmate can't return to the US because she had a stroke and needed an MRI. The consultation alone on whether or not she needed an MRI was $10k. She flew to Australia and had to pay an "expensive rate for noncitizens" for the consultation and MRI - $248.
When I was 4, I cut my chin open to the bone in a bike wreck. Instead of sedating me, the medical clinc put me in a straight jacket. Messed me up 4 years. No one could hug and hold me without my going crazy fight to get away
That's horrible. I don't know why hospitals still think children don't feel pain!
@@toulousegoose1150 - It's more like they believe they can "talk them out of it" because children are so suggestable, or they just don't care, or they figure who are they gonna believe? Some little kid or me - the DOCTOR!
I really believe some doctors either have God complexes or are sadists.
After all - what can a small child do to them? Complain to Mom and Dad? Then all he had to say is something like "many children THINK they're in pain - It's a frightening experience for a child but I assure you he was given . . ." numbing or whatever.
And it seems to be getting much worse as the years go by.
Revolting, to torture a helpless, hurt child like that.
😢
strait-jacket
You don't have to claim to "be somebody" for you to experience medical gaslighting... I went in with chest pains, and screaming high blood pressure and they told me I had diarrhea but was fine and wheeled me to my car and let me drive off...
Turns out I have a tumor on my adrenal gland and was in adrenal crisis and could have died in the car on my way home...
But you have no case when the doctor's records say you came in with a bout of diarrhea...
I guess people need to start audio recording with their cell phones in case the hospital staff lie out their ass to prevent you from suing them.
@@toolman1990 Yep, that's exactly what I've decided because I have a metabolic disease that requires having a licensed doctor to manage and I've been a victim of medical gaslighting for the last 8yrs with it.
Today, we have no choice but to be as medically informed as we can be...
@@christiroseify Unfortunately, in "two party consent" states, it would be illegal to record a doctor without their permission.
@@NoBody-zr4ue I didn't say I was secretly going to record them. Absolutely I will tell them ahead of time that I am taking audio notes... They cannot refuse me... And if the doctor does refuse me, I don't want them treating me anyway
@@christiroseify I wonder how many of them would refuse this for legal reasons. It's interesting that doctors often have the same incentive to lie as cops, but we have no special protections against doctors and medical misconduct.
WHAT!!!?? so one cannot pretend to be someone else AND have a serious medical condition???
and since when does a straitjacket supersede treating a patient with chest pains??!!!??
I have many questions... mental condition into a straitjacket supersede ALL MEDICAL TREATMENTS??!!? even non-violent mental issues???
Retired RN. You ALWAYS treat the presenting symptoms, which in this case is difficulty breathing and chest pain. Until those are resolved, you don't do anything about possible mental issues. Period. You can use restraints if the patient is agitated and uncooperative with needed treatment, but no restraints are justified when the patient is seeking and being cooperative with treatment. What has been described is just plain wrong from any direction you want to look at it.
The $25 gift card just makes it worse. That detail speaks volumes about the hospital's reaction to finding out that they'd endangered a patient's life by wrongfully assuming he was insane. They thought a piddly little gift card would make it all go away. It's like offering a stabbing victim a box of bandages.
It is an explicit insult.
I bet they thought if he accepted the gift card that made so he couldn't sue.
It was probably a legal move: If the patient takes the gift card, they can argue in court that the patient already got compensation.
@@badlydrawnturtle8484 accepting small compensation does not mean you aren't owed more compensation. He would have had to sign a contract stating that he won't sue.
@@davidh9638 Agreed. Also stupid; did they think a member of the Four Tops couldn't afford to sue them?