Possibly the best human ever. Better than all the Phone Sanitation Technicians and Hairdressers that started the Earth 2.0...Those Mice! always running us down a maze!
Hello. Wow! What a lot of hardware tested 🙂 I'm still waiting for my CM4 to arrive but very interested in participating with this effort of getting interesting PCI devices working on the Pi. You didn't mention much about the OS used. Full disclosure, I'm Engineering Director at Canonical for Ubuntu Desktop and have been working closely with engineers at Raspberry Pi Trading this year. Ubuntu on the the Pi is just Ubuntu, with added Pi enablement. So, if hardware works on Ubuntu, it should work on the Ubuntu for the Raspberry Pi too. In particular Ubuntu 20.10 is where we've recently invested a lot of effort, so that's a good version to use as a starting point. If you want to hook up and have a chat I'd be happy to see where we can help 👍
That sounds amazing! And I'm extremely impressed with how far Ubuntu for Pi has come in the past year-it really has been a great drop-in replacement (with some _very_ nice features like cloud-init) for Pi OS. I may consider doing more of my default work on it. I would love to chat sometime-would be great to see if we could make Ubuntu for Pi have at least many of the main use cases supported out of the box in terms of precompiled drivers (USB, SATA, Networking especially).
You are the forefront of this information and bringing it all together as guides for publicly available for others is amazing. You're amazing. Thank you for all of the video in the series! It keeps me interested in learning with my Pi's
Thank you again Jeff! You do amazing work and the whole community appreciates your tireless efforts. Your fantastic content has helped many of us who were.. refocused on indoor activities in 2020. Best wishes for 2021!
Sounds great! Keep up the good work. Also, if you get time, please can you try some pci express sound cards! Or even pci to pci express adapters with older pci sound cards! I've got an Auzentech Audigy Xfi pci card lying about that had amazing sound quality output for 7.1 that I'd love to play with!
I Got It Jeff was finally able to flash to MMC after watching ure video with the written instructions,I got it,Thank You so much couldn’t do it without Jeff’s help!!Now I need help getting sound from the Compute Module 4
As someone who has had REALLY bad experience with those mining PCIE riser adapters (It fried not only the video card for me but the power supply as well. Annnnnd then burst into flame. Fun times.) I would highly, HIGHLY recommend that if you DO use them, test them out first on a system you can afford to lose. Also preferably something more resistant to surges/shorts/etc than a Pi CM4, haha. (Old PC set up as a test bench or something). The few minutes you'll take to test it out could save hundreds in fried equipment. (I had purchased 3 of those risers to use on different machines and had no trouble with the first 2, so... don't even blindly trust good reviews, as those can't predict bad units in an otherwise good batch. Better safe than stuck waiting for replacement hardware. Edit: Also, a dremel standard plastic/soft metal grinding wheel will tear up the slot end a lot less, plus has the benefit of heating/slightly melting it in the process so the edges aren't as jagged, plus, so long as you're conscious of the direction of rotation, is FAR less likely to damage the pins should it come in contact with them.
You are great thank you!!! Simple and clear speech, Exact info needed, and additional Showing what you did, how, and what didn't get to work, .. Showing what's needed to be done, and why (which is more informative). Thank you!
red jeff should start a secret evil genius project to start his own wiki dump and then integrate all the github db onto the redshirt jeff wiki - sounds doable surprisingly maybe he could use yacy and crawl the site and then he would have a solr dumo and index to run an ad server against - jeff says he has nothing against targeted ads and keywords
I own a Sony VX1000 Camcorder and had a plan to transition to a "tapeless" setup by using a Sony HVR MRC1 (Memory Recorder), which connects to the camera's firewire out port. This setup allows for direct recording to a memory card instead of using tapes. However, the Sony HVR MRC1 is quite old, and I'm not willing to pay around $500 for outdated technology that's two decades old. Due to the lack of viable alternatives in the market, I decided to explore the idea of creating my own memory recorder using existing technology. Given my limited knowledge about electronics, I thought of utilizing a Raspberry Pi with a firewire port and SD card slot. By running an operating system and software like WinDV on the Raspberry Pi, I could potentially record the footage to the memory card. Of course, I'd also need a small screen to monitor the recordings and an input device like a mouse to control the process. It might sound like a far-fetched and somewhat impractical idea, but I'm eager to explore the possibilities. At times, I can't help but chuckle at my own ambitious plan. I suppose I could simply reach out to manufacturers in China and see if they can build me a device similar to Sony's HVR MRC1. This option may be more practical and less time-consuming than my DIY approach. Anyway, I shared this idea with you even though it might sound a bit silly. I appreciate your videos and enjoy your content. Thanks for sharing! That is what ChatGPT said, after I asked it to rewrite my original comment, ha ha. I have a Sony VX1000 Camcorder and planned on going "tapeless", using a Sony HVR MRC1 (Memory Recorder), that is hooked up to the cameras firewire out port. That way you can record straight to a memory card, instead of using tape. Only "problem" is the Sony's HVR MRC1, but it is old. Very old, and I am not willing to pay around $500 bucks for 20-year-old tech. So, I started looking into alternatives. Unfortunately, there aren't any. Not really. So I decided to "put" together my own memory recorder. Since I know nothing about electronics, I am planning on using existing pieces of tech to somehow make it work. One way would be to use a Raspberry PI with firewire port and SD card slot.Then run an OS and some software like WinDV to record the footage, and some tiny screen so you can actually see whats going on. Not to mention an input device like a mouse. LOL What a stupid idea! I am sure I can just make a few calls to China and have someone build me a Sony's HVR MRC1 like device. Why am I telling you this? Anyhow, I like your videos. Thanks.
At 1:15 you spent 10 seconds demonstrating to tech-savvy computer people that a large PCI card will not fit into a small PCI slot. Thank you. I could NEVER have figured that one out on my own! In your next video, can you demonstrate how a VHS cassette can not fit into a USB port
If you've worked in support/help desk, you may notice that the most tech-savvy people in the world often require the deepest intervention for the simplest of problems :) dilbert.com/strip/1994-01-31
Very interesting....I have minor interest on the Pi, but totally share your keenness in tinkering around with hardware. Mine are all pre-Pentium 4 computers...it is a rabbit hole. Watch out you may have fun!
Just one small tiny correction, theoretically, the max bandwidth is only 4G not 5G because of 8b/10b. That pcie switch is very interesting. Would definitely want to take a look on that. 🙂
Regular ATX power supplies can get flaky if not loaded down enough. If you are using one to power your risers and other cards that might be a source of instability.
Problem is that the base board is NOT available to us normal people until March. You can get the CM4 but dont have anything to put them on and the KiCad diagrams only work for a nightly release ... Great one RPF
If you look around, there have been IO boards in stock here and there. PiShop.us is currently showing them in stock: www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-compute-module-cm4io-board/?src=raspberrypi It seems to be getting better. Though the higher-capacity CM4s are still very difficult to find!
@@JeffGeerling Thanks Jeff although ordering this back to the UK form the Us sounds a bit much assuming this is Genuine and not one of these "mistakes" many sites have. If you check Pimoroni here in the UK then its strictly a pre-order shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-compute-module-4-io-board?variant=32280572002387¤cy=GBP&+shopping?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0MD_BRCTARIsADXoopZ3hI91Z5mw2mZf4jbjX5zRsiDtuIDl6p1uxyZNXpeXeraCnzWAhOkaAsi3EALw_wcB It's possible they got better supplies but I think its unlikely against Pimoroni/PiHut/CPC/Farnell/RS which are all giving March 21 ++ delivery
I've nearly gotten an HD6450 to work with the pi. It hangs up setting up framebuffer emulation and I've disabled UVP (universal video processor) for now as it hung up there too, but without a display connected, it loads the driver fine. The pi for some reason is unable to read the PCI ROM of the card which contains the BIOS, but it's possible to load the BIOS from a file with a small modification to the driver.
@@JeffGeerling Yup, that's me. I've got it past DVI and HDMI initialisation and it got stuck on VGA, but if I disable VGA, it get's stuck earlier. I guess I'll have to figure out a better debugger than printk to get further with this.
@@coreforge I got the ear of someone who works at AMD and they mentioned something to the effect of "I wouldn't work with that generation of GPUs" since they didn't even think about non-X86 BIOS use cases and there would be a lot of flaws to iron out... but that person did say it could be possible to get it to work (at least a little bit!). That was the person who suggested the RX 550 might be one of the oldest models that would be easier to get initialized on the Pi... thus I'm still trying to get my remote debugger working. Like you, I hit the annoying printk issues where output would stop before I got whatever I was most interested in finding: github.com/geerlingguy/raspberry-pi-pcie-devices/issues/6 If you're wanting to keep digging and might want to switch tracks to this card, I'd be willing to ship it over to you and see if you can get further than I could! I just want _someone_ to get a signal through a GPU on the Pi, mostly to prove LTT wrong (heh) but also because it could open some interesting new possibilities (IMO).
I can't wait for all the custom boards to arrive. I think that pi NASes will be the next big thing; also pi routers, that will be something. I currently have a good router, with an open source firmware (tomato), but man, with a pi, this could be so much better...
The main use case for the Pi in my eyes is portability and low power consumption, so you could hook it up to a battery and a voltage negotiator. But that isn’t an option when you have to use a desktop PC power supply, which is why it’s still worth getting these devices running. I wanted to make a portable game console but until there’s good GPU support it’s just not possible. Even that Nvidia 710 card is decent- moreso than Intel HD 600 graphics in an x86 Larkbox that costs twice as much.
Now that board with pcie you could use a good sound card or a graphic pcie cutting the plastic as you do with pcie x8 to x16 cutting the plastic or try multi sata 3.0 cards
A friend and I are working on a handheld Game console using the compute module 4. Since there aren't a lot of real world tests with this board yet, I thought I'd reach out and ask if you feel like testing the power consumption of the cm4 under different conditions? I'm sure it could make for an interesting video! Cheers, and thanks for all the helpful information so far!
That is something I'd like to test at some point... but I don't have the time for the next few weeks at least (new baby on the way!). The only formal power testing I've done so far is in my SATA RAID NAS video, around 19 minutes in (ruclips.net/video/oWev1THtA04/видео.html) - it ran at 5-6W standby and 10-14W with full load with a few external SSDs running. Adjust down a little if you don't need as much hardware attached.
M.2 is a generic term that covers BOTH SATA(NGFF) & NVMe which are NOT pin compatible. To get the best throughput with any M.2 card, either use the connector that is built in to the motherboard. If you do not have motherboard M.2 mounts then you MUST have at least PCI-E gen 3.0, a PCI-E gen 2.0 simply doesn't have the bandwidth to support the M.2.
Jeff thank you for all your great unbias information and work. You look a little tired or overworked and I want to express my concern for your health. If you feel any form of fatige then please try to slowdown to better your overall health. I wish you many blessings to you and your love ones.
Still waiting for soundcards :D Don't have the time and funds atm (you know current situations) to test it myself. Love you're videos, they are very informative! edit: I think the conclusion is that it's mostly all about drivers?
Please hop over to this discussion and let me know what you're thinking, who knows, might be able to try it! github.com/geerlingguy/raspberry-pi-pcie-devices/discussions/34
I'd use the soldering iron to melt that end of the connector. The CM is really nice but whoever thought this connector was a good idea hasn't taken the right decision; it should be opened at the back from factory, why limit it physically, there is a lot of equipment that would be great to have working on the Pi even if not at full bandwidth.
Re the kernel modules/kernels. Have you considered putting the code in GitHub repos and running actions? That way you can set it up so it builds by itself when the code is updated, and if you save the artifacts you can share those with others.
Jeff, you should try a SAS HBA (hba, not raid card). You can even try a card with P20 firmware (you can find them preflashed on ebay for cheap). The P20 flashed version have no bios so it should give you less problems, also this firmware is more compatible with Freenas, unraid and similar
Hi. I just scrolled through your website. Thank you for all your hard work trying to figure out what will work and what won‘t. At home we are watching tv through dvb-s which means that some of our displays will need a receiver. I‘d like to build myself a receiver using a raspberry pi. Are you planning on trying out that kind of pcie cards? Would be a massive help :)
The solution of just cutting open the side of the 1x port to fit larger cards is almost on-par with me cutting the data wire to my CPU fan because it wasn't being detected
@@soy_leche Fun. Also they could have full pci-express X16 slots we could put graphics cards in and attach much more powerful cpu coolers and far more beefier vrm's around the cpu for overclocking. Also removable ram modules. More IO.
Second viewing. Crystal ball time. As small SBC start using PCIe more and more, do you see any standardization of cable/connector to remote mount boards ? (Mounting PCIe boards perpendicular to a SBC is not a great idea for many reasons.) I found one remote mount on eBay the looks like the one you have. Very inexpensive (
There are also 90° risers, which allow you to mount a card parallel to the IO board, though they would not do well without external support (e.g. a case and some mounting points) with many heavier cards. The best solution would be either a riser or one of the flex cables with a case that supports the PCIe card (or multiple cards) more securely.
I think red shirt Jeff would just cut a slot in the card, or cut off the extra contacts completely. I've done that with dual gigabit network cards to use in a single lane PCIe socket.
Another great video! Thanks Jeff. Unfortunately I get a bit confused. Du I understand correctly that the Syba SD-PEX20199 Supports USB PD? I didn't find anything in the Amazon description or on the Website from Syba. Could a MacBook still be charged if the sata power connector is used? If yes witch IC is used for USB 3.0. is PD in the main IC or being supplied by a second chip?
This is great and all but until the Pi Foundation can honor my pre-order from last October for my CM4 this is just prolonged tease of what I could do if I had mine.
0:44 lots of the tests of NVME drives on PCIe gen2 x1 shows around 400MB/s read/write speeds, which makes 3.2Gbps total. So I guess you reach PCIe bandwidth limit in your setup. However, PCIe is a dual simplex bus, so it should push 5Gbps in both directions. I believe those Asus card could push more in bidirectional UDP iperf test with multiple streams (make sure that rss/rps is enabled in driver). However, I'm not sure that Pi is actually able to generate such an amount of traffic with iperf even if you use jumbo frames. Probably it can bridge this traffic from port to port, i.e. if you use external PCs as an iperf server and client.
Please try some of the StarTech USB cards. The have some card with both USB 3.0 & USB-C ports. Adding more USB-C to a Rpi would really make it take off. They have one that is a x1 but runs five(5) separate USB 3.x channels each with UASP on each channel instead of what most other cards which are actually a USB HUB with only one(1) 'REAL' USB 3.x channel.
Jeff，I'm developing with Compute Module 4 IO Board, I have a problem, I use the official file line PCIEx1, but I have a questionMy understanding should be PCIE_TX_N --> PETN0 PCIE_TX_P --> PETP0 But the original line is PCIE_TX_N --> PETP0 PCIE_TX_P --> PETN0
Is it possible to leverage a GPU for use cases other than video out? Mining would be the obvious one, Plex on Pi is very functional with the exception of transcoding which potentially could be added with a half decent GPU
My main purpose for testing the Nvidia cards is to see if there's any way I can utilize the CUDA cores for ML/AI. Though there are other purpose-built chips like the Coral TPU that may be easier to get working.
HI jeff!! i was so shocked the Possibility raspberry pi after saw your videos! now i plan to build raspberry pi cluster! can i ask some question?! i now already buy pi4 4gb ram *4 for cluster and i thought i need more pis!! so plan to but pi3+ or pi4 2gb for working node is it okay!?! for my little cluster!? happy new years and always thanks for your awsome video!!! love from south korea!
PCIe Gen2 has a transfer rate of 5 GT/s with a 8b/10b line code. That means, that for 8 bit of data, 10 bits have to be transferred. Thus the (theoretical) max. bandwidth of a PCIe Gen2 lane is 4 Gb/s or 0.5 GB/s. Thus the 3.3 Gb/s aren't actually that bad. GPUs usually need the high bandwidth, provided by 16 lanes. I would not be surprised, if the video BIOS simply shuts down the card, when it detects that some lanes have no heartbeat.
I've been assured by a few people who work in/around AMD and Nvidia that the card _should_ still initialize on 1x, but it seems like we're possibly running into bugs in the Broadcom SoC PCI-E driver, or in some part of the code that deals with memory access and doesn't really work well with ARM (or at least all ARM64 variants).
@@JeffGeerling Yes, according to Wikipedia, it should be possible to establish a connection, as long as at least one lane is operable. As I have no experience with ARM, I can give no insight to PCIe-driver issues, sorry.
Heh, the first thing I thought of when you mentioned that is getting a darksaber (which would be cool to have, but is sadly only fictional...). But I haven't ever tried one (ultrasonic knife, that is), so I fear I might accidentally slice right through my desk and arm too. But worth testing out, for someone who has one!
@@JeffGeerling I'm sure Red Shirt Jeff would use a darksaber every chance! I've used an ultrasonic knife several times in a prototyping lab, and they are far less scary than even a Dremel tool. I'd describe it as a fat handled xacto knife that cuts plastic like soft butter. And I'd say it's safer than the saw when considering nicking traces.
Jeff, why? Please forgive me this question. Is it because of it's (or not) possible, or is it because it gives any meaningful sense...? 🤔 I cannot figure out, why I want to use a card on the pie.
Hey Jeff . Sorry i‘m a newbie:-) i have the rpi4. When i buy the io board and cm4 do i Need the rpi4 anymore? How i understood the cm4 and io Board are Running without, Right? I Would like to have a nvme connected to my raspberry
Curious if any of those PCIE adapters work with Clockwork Pi Uconsole systems with the expander ports or if there is a way to plug into the CM4 PCIE directly.
I have a suspicion they wont. The PCIe controller on the Pi4 doesn't support "IO BARs", that is not an issue for stuff that was designed from scratch in a modern way but its a big issue for stuff that was designed a long time ago and has received only minor updates since.
PCIE slots typically supply up to 75w, how much power is the slot supplying? is it under what the GPU need to work properly? have you tried any with an external power supply?
The 12v supply on the slot goes directly to the power source I believe, so it's mostly up to what adapter or PSU you use. But safer to use an external riser with high-draw cards.
One thing I would really like you to test, the coolers and fans for the compute module 4. Are the existing models for the raspi4 compatible? Is there new products coming?
finally someone who shares my love of trying to get pointless things working even though there are much simpler alternatives
Jeff - blink SOS in morse code if you're being held hostage by the Linux Foundation and forced to recompile Linux kernels at gunpoint.
But in binary though. If it's not in binary then it's a fake kidnapping.
ROFLMAO!!!
nah, morse code is too old
he could use both his eyes to transfer the message via I²C
@@proxy1035 or just do uart
or just do KISS... (joke)
"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from"
- Andrew S. Tanenbaum
xkcd.com/927/
@@JeffGeerling ah, there is always a xkcd for everything
No
Right? I just keep lowering my standards until I achieve success.
@@jtqthetieman what?
"Why not just buy..." is literally the dumbest question to ask a tinkerer.
da
Unless they have the magic of GOVT SUBSIDY....OH BABY then it gets real!
Raising the BAR once again.
Happy New Year.
Very punny!
Get off my shoulders
Possibly the best human ever. Better than all the Phone Sanitation Technicians and Hairdressers that started the Earth 2.0...Those Mice! always running us down a maze!
Hello. Wow! What a lot of hardware tested 🙂 I'm still waiting for my CM4 to arrive but very interested in participating with this effort of getting interesting PCI devices working on the Pi. You didn't mention much about the OS used. Full disclosure, I'm Engineering Director at Canonical for Ubuntu Desktop and have been working closely with engineers at Raspberry Pi Trading this year. Ubuntu on the the Pi is just Ubuntu, with added Pi enablement. So, if hardware works on Ubuntu, it should work on the Ubuntu for the Raspberry Pi too. In particular Ubuntu 20.10 is where we've recently invested a lot of effort, so that's a good version to use as a starting point. If you want to hook up and have a chat I'd be happy to see where we can help 👍
That sounds amazing! And I'm extremely impressed with how far Ubuntu for Pi has come in the past year-it really has been a great drop-in replacement (with some _very_ nice features like cloud-init) for Pi OS.
I may consider doing more of my default work on it. I would love to chat sometime-would be great to see if we could make Ubuntu for Pi have at least many of the main use cases supported out of the box in terms of precompiled drivers (USB, SATA, Networking especially).
The first one to get a PCI graphics card to work with this will have Elite status. They will become Legend in the world of Raspberry Pi.
You are the forefront of this information and bringing it all together as guides for publicly available for others is amazing. You're amazing. Thank you for all of the video in the series! It keeps me interested in learning with my Pi's
Will you try out the third party Board Designs soon with the CM4?
Yes! One is in-hand (but mum's the word), waiting on at least another one in January sometime...
Thank you again Jeff! You do amazing work and the whole community appreciates your tireless efforts. Your fantastic content has helped many of us who were.. refocused on indoor activities in 2020. Best wishes for 2021!
I second this comment.
Sounds great! Keep up the good work. Also, if you get time, please can you try some pci express sound cards! Or even pci to pci express adapters with older pci sound cards! I've got an Auzentech Audigy Xfi pci card lying about that had amazing sound quality output for 7.1 that I'd love to play with!
Is Jeff setting the stage for an LTT reaction video?! Being a bit late for Santa, we’re gonna have to hope the 3 kings (hey I’m Spanish) deliver. 😅
There was an AvE reference recently as well. F*** Yeah!
@@CandyGramForMongo_ Leave your comments down in the diddly-doo.
We have until the 6th!
I Got It Jeff was finally able to flash to MMC after watching ure video with the written instructions,I got it,Thank You so much couldn’t do it without Jeff’s help!!Now I need help getting sound from the Compute Module 4
As someone who has had REALLY bad experience with those mining PCIE riser adapters (It fried not only the video card for me but the power supply as well. Annnnnd then burst into flame. Fun times.) I would highly, HIGHLY recommend that if you DO use them, test them out first on a system you can afford to lose. Also preferably something more resistant to surges/shorts/etc than a Pi CM4, haha. (Old PC set up as a test bench or something). The few minutes you'll take to test it out could save hundreds in fried equipment. (I had purchased 3 of those risers to use on different machines and had no trouble with the first 2, so... don't even blindly trust good reviews, as those can't predict bad units in an otherwise good batch. Better safe than stuck waiting for replacement hardware.
Edit: Also, a dremel standard plastic/soft metal grinding wheel will tear up the slot end a lot less, plus has the benefit of heating/slightly melting it in the process so the edges aren't as jagged, plus, so long as you're conscious of the direction of rotation, is FAR less likely to damage the pins should it come in contact with them.
Heh... one of those risers did burn up my little 2.5 GbE card: ruclips.net/video/wCbQQ5-sjGM/видео.html
love the bloopers... show the real work involved in putting out these vids
Solid work. Sponsored.
I use Arch, btw.
How do you find an Arch Linux user? Don't worry, they'll let you know ;)
Thanks for the sponsorship, and Happy New Year!
I like your "bloopers"... there's no such thing as a perfection if there wasn't a flaw
Congrats for 100K subscribers Jeff. You deserve it!
I just learned that razor saws exist. Oh boy, so much I have to learn.
Hi Jeff, I love the outtakes at the end. !!!! You are the best!!!!
Wishes for a happy new year from Athens Greece
It'll be a new year there sooner than where I live, so thank you from the future!
When you said, "for crying out loud" , I busted a gut laughing. BTW, I was raised in Texas. Its not so bad. ;-)
I'm highly interested to see the results of the SFP card. Having SFP gives you a lot of flexibility.
Lots of options with SFP+!
You are great thank you!!!
Simple and clear speech, Exact info needed, and additional
Showing what you did, how, and what didn't get to work, ..
Showing what's needed to be done, and why (which is more informative).
Thank you!
Thank you so much for holding it all down for us...Your work gives me hope of bringing my brain back online eventually. LOL!
LoL. Recommends Xacto but shows a Zona blade! Personally, Olfa is king!
Love these Pi vids! Looking forward to seeing programming!
I own a Asus XG-C100C with both Debian & Ubuntu this card works out of the box with kernel 4.19 and 5.4 respectively. Very nice indeed.
red shirt jeff should get his own product line of tools - red shirt jeff's amazon store, red shirt jeff's shopify etc
red jeff should start a secret evil genius project to start his own wiki dump and then integrate all the github db onto the redshirt jeff wiki - sounds doable surprisingly maybe he could use yacy and crawl the site and then he would have a solr dumo and index to run an ad server against - jeff says he has nothing against targeted ads and keywords
Just don't send him planet side....
I own a Sony VX1000 Camcorder and had a plan to transition to a "tapeless" setup by using a Sony HVR MRC1 (Memory Recorder), which connects to the camera's firewire out port. This setup allows for direct recording to a memory card instead of using tapes. However, the Sony HVR MRC1 is quite old, and I'm not willing to pay around $500 for outdated technology that's two decades old.
Due to the lack of viable alternatives in the market, I decided to explore the idea of creating my own memory recorder using existing technology. Given my limited knowledge about electronics, I thought of utilizing a Raspberry Pi with a firewire port and SD card slot. By running an operating system and software like WinDV on the Raspberry Pi, I could potentially record the footage to the memory card. Of course, I'd also need a small screen to monitor the recordings and an input device like a mouse to control the process. It might sound like a far-fetched and somewhat impractical idea, but I'm eager to explore the possibilities.
At times, I can't help but chuckle at my own ambitious plan. I suppose I could simply reach out to manufacturers in China and see if they can build me a device similar to Sony's HVR MRC1. This option may be more practical and less time-consuming than my DIY approach.
Anyway, I shared this idea with you even though it might sound a bit silly. I appreciate your videos and enjoy your content. Thanks for sharing!
That is what ChatGPT said, after I asked it to rewrite my original comment, ha ha.
I have a Sony VX1000 Camcorder and planned on going "tapeless", using a Sony HVR MRC1 (Memory Recorder), that is hooked up to the cameras firewire out port. That way you can record straight to a memory card, instead of using tape. Only "problem" is the Sony's HVR MRC1, but it is old. Very old, and I am not willing to pay around $500 bucks for 20-year-old tech.
So, I started looking into alternatives. Unfortunately, there aren't any. Not really. So I decided to "put" together my own memory recorder. Since I know nothing about electronics, I am planning on using existing pieces of tech to somehow make it work. One way would be to use a Raspberry PI with firewire port and SD card slot.Then run an OS and some software like WinDV to record the footage, and some tiny screen so you can actually see whats going on. Not to mention an input device like a mouse. LOL
What a stupid idea! I am sure I can just make a few calls to China and have someone build me a Sony's HVR MRC1 like device.
Why am I telling you this? Anyhow, I like your videos. Thanks.
At 1:15 you spent 10 seconds demonstrating to tech-savvy computer people that a large PCI card will not fit into a small PCI slot. Thank you. I could NEVER have figured that one out on my own! In your next video, can you demonstrate how a VHS cassette can not fit into a USB port
If you've worked in support/help desk, you may notice that the most tech-savvy people in the world often require the deepest intervention for the simplest of problems :) dilbert.com/strip/1994-01-31
The best thing I've learnt today:
*there exists an razer saw*
Ikr. I need one!
Jeff, I hope you like the UK!
I see a job offer in the mail from the raspberry Pi Corp coming soon.
Very interesting....I have minor interest on the Pi, but totally share your keenness in tinkering around with hardware. Mine are all pre-Pentium 4 computers...it is a rabbit hole. Watch out you may have fun!
Fittingly festive feast of fresh colors!
Only watch this for his bloopers!! Just kidding dont send red shirt Jeff to 'fix' my house!! Keep it going!!
Red Shirt Jeff would be glad to provide some percussive maintenance to your home!
I love the bloopers
Love your content, I can't wait to get one of these.
PCIe 2.0 single lane throughput is 500MiB/s which is 4gbps. Less the transport protocol overhead gives you the roughly the 3.5gbps.
Just one small tiny correction, theoretically, the max bandwidth is only 4G not 5G because of 8b/10b.
That pcie switch is very interesting. Would definitely want to take a look on that. 🙂
Gah! True... D'oh.
Regular ATX power supplies can get flaky if not loaded down enough. If you are using one to power your risers and other cards that might be a source of instability.
Problem is that the base board is NOT available to us normal people until March. You can get the CM4 but dont have anything to put them on and the KiCad diagrams only work for a nightly release ... Great one RPF
If you look around, there have been IO boards in stock here and there. PiShop.us is currently showing them in stock: www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-compute-module-cm4io-board/?src=raspberrypi
It seems to be getting better. Though the higher-capacity CM4s are still very difficult to find!
@@JeffGeerling Thanks Jeff although ordering this back to the UK form the Us sounds a bit much assuming this is Genuine and not one of these "mistakes" many sites have.
If you check Pimoroni here in the UK then its strictly a pre-order shop.pimoroni.com/products/raspberry-pi-compute-module-4-io-board?variant=32280572002387¤cy=GBP&+shopping?gclid=Cj0KCQiA0MD_BRCTARIsADXoopZ3hI91Z5mw2mZf4jbjX5zRsiDtuIDl6p1uxyZNXpeXeraCnzWAhOkaAsi3EALw_wcB
It's possible they got better supplies but I think its unlikely against Pimoroni/PiHut/CPC/Farnell/RS which are all giving March 21 ++ delivery
100.000 subs Special pog
I’m so happy that occasionally OCD expressions are so interesting.
almost reaching 100k Let’s Go!
I've nearly gotten an HD6450 to work with the pi. It hangs up setting up framebuffer emulation and I've disabled UVP (universal video processor) for now as it hung up there too, but without a display connected, it loads the driver fine. The pi for some reason is unable to read the PCI ROM of the card which contains the BIOS, but it's possible to load the BIOS from a file with a small modification to the driver.
Are you commenting on this issue? github.com/geerlingguy/raspberry-pi-pcie-devices/issues/4#issuecomment-751918301 - thanks for pushing it forward!
@@JeffGeerling Yup, that's me. I've got it past DVI and HDMI initialisation and it got stuck on VGA, but if I disable VGA, it get's stuck earlier. I guess I'll have to figure out a better debugger than printk to get further with this.
@@coreforge I got the ear of someone who works at AMD and they mentioned something to the effect of "I wouldn't work with that generation of GPUs" since they didn't even think about non-X86 BIOS use cases and there would be a lot of flaws to iron out... but that person did say it could be possible to get it to work (at least a little bit!).
That was the person who suggested the RX 550 might be one of the oldest models that would be easier to get initialized on the Pi... thus I'm still trying to get my remote debugger working. Like you, I hit the annoying printk issues where output would stop before I got whatever I was most interested in finding: github.com/geerlingguy/raspberry-pi-pcie-devices/issues/6
If you're wanting to keep digging and might want to switch tracks to this card, I'd be willing to ship it over to you and see if you can get further than I could! I just want _someone_ to get a signal through a GPU on the Pi, mostly to prove LTT wrong (heh) but also because it could open some interesting new possibilities (IMO).
I can't wait for all the custom boards to arrive. I think that pi NASes will be the next big thing; also pi routers, that will be something. I currently have a good router, with an open source firmware (tomato), but man, with a pi, this could be so much better...
The main use case for the Pi in my eyes is portability and low power consumption, so you could hook it up to a battery and a voltage negotiator. But that isn’t an option when you have to use a desktop PC power supply, which is why it’s still worth getting these devices running. I wanted to make a portable game console but until there’s good GPU support it’s just not possible. Even that Nvidia 710 card is decent- moreso than Intel HD 600 graphics in an x86 Larkbox that costs twice as much.
3rd,
anyways, i used to convert 1x to 1x+ with a soldering iron, its a little less scary then cutting it if you are fast
Heh, no matter what, there's a real risk of melting or cutting the wrong little bit :D
Great work and info!
Now that board with pcie you could use a good sound card or a graphic pcie cutting the plastic as you do with pcie x8 to x16 cutting the plastic or try multi sata 3.0 cards
I remember using that ASM sata card ages ago. It is slow and becomes even slower if you use two drives as it is just multiplexing.
But at least you won't have to physically switch between drives if you have several you want to use.
What about a capture card? That would be cool to see.
I'll have to see if I can capture one to test :)
It would be better to use an external capture card
A friend and I are working on a handheld Game console using the compute module 4. Since there aren't a lot of real world tests with this board yet, I thought I'd reach out and ask if you feel like testing the power consumption of the cm4 under different conditions? I'm sure it could make for an interesting video! Cheers, and thanks for all the helpful information so far!
That is something I'd like to test at some point... but I don't have the time for the next few weeks at least (new baby on the way!). The only formal power testing I've done so far is in my SATA RAID NAS video, around 19 minutes in (ruclips.net/video/oWev1THtA04/видео.html) - it ran at 5-6W standby and 10-14W with full load with a few external SSDs running. Adjust down a little if you don't need as much hardware attached.
Ahh ... We can only dream of RPi5 ! Please, at least 4 PCIe lanes !
Mmm... the potential for full 10 GbE networking with some bandwidth for storage...
M.2 is a generic term that covers BOTH SATA(NGFF) & NVMe which are NOT pin compatible. To get the best throughput with any M.2 card, either use the connector that is built in to the motherboard. If you do not have motherboard M.2 mounts then you MUST have at least PCI-E gen 3.0, a PCI-E gen 2.0 simply doesn't have the bandwidth to support the M.2.
Jeff thank you for all your great unbias information and work. You look a little tired or overworked and I want to express my concern for your health. If you feel any form of fatige then please try to slowdown to better your overall health. I wish you many blessings to you and your love ones.
I believe this is just the normal way of life with three kids under 8 (and another on the way) ;)
For the cutting it's better to use sharp scalpel and slice on the two edges, then just wiggle out the dongle in the middle.
A PCIE switch would be interesting :))
Here's hoping the driver situation will improve soon.
Great info again Jeff
Still waiting for soundcards :D
Don't have the time and funds atm (you know current situations) to test it myself.
Love you're videos, they are very informative!
edit: I think the conclusion is that it's mostly all about drivers?
Please hop over to this discussion and let me know what you're thinking, who knows, might be able to try it! github.com/geerlingguy/raspberry-pi-pcie-devices/discussions/34
@@JeffGeerling Thanks, will do!
Wasn't aware if it, thanks :)
Jeff do the have a parallel port PCIE adapter or better parallel and dsp9 serial adapter?
Another great video!
Have a Happy New Year!
Why not recompile 2020 whith a few tweeks?
I used 16 or so of those powered risers couple of winters ago, they all were working fine 🤔
I'd use the soldering iron to melt that end of the connector. The CM is really nice but whoever thought this connector was a good idea hasn't taken the right decision; it should be opened at the back from factory, why limit it physically, there is a lot of equipment that would be great to have working on the Pi even if not at full bandwidth.
Re the kernel modules/kernels. Have you considered putting the code in GitHub repos and running actions? That way you can set it up so it builds by itself when the code is updated, and if you save the artifacts you can share those with others.
Jeff, you should try a SAS HBA (hba, not raid card). You can even try a card with P20 firmware (you can find them preflashed on ebay for cheap). The P20 flashed version have no bios so it should give you less problems, also this firmware is more compatible with Freenas, unraid and similar
I wonder how it would handle an Sun Oracle F40 flash accelerator card? (4x 100GB SSD HBA, currently less than 30 dollars on ebay)
@@virtualtools_3021 there Is Aldo a 800gb and 1.2tb model (dame design bit with buffet SSD). If the where chepere the 1.2tb i Will buy the 😂
I'm new to the channel. Commenting for algorithm. Seems like a well put together video.
The algorithm thanks you for your input :D
Hi. I just scrolled through your website. Thank you for all your hard work trying to figure out what will work and what won‘t.
At home we are watching tv through dvb-s which means that some of our displays will need a receiver. I‘d like to build myself a receiver using a raspberry pi. Are you planning on trying out that kind of pcie cards? Would be a massive help :)
The solution of just cutting open the side of the 1x port to fit larger cards is almost on-par with me cutting the data wire to my CPU fan because it wasn't being detected
I hope that one day the Rasberry Pi people make ITX, microATX and ATX motherboards based on the RasPI.
Never thought of that. What would be the advantage or use?
@@soy_leche Fun. Also they could have full pci-express X16 slots we could put graphics cards in and attach much more powerful cpu coolers and far more beefier vrm's around the cpu for overclocking. Also removable ram modules. More IO.
Maybe when ARM replaces x86 and people will really need upgradeable ARM machines, that will happen
Second viewing. Crystal ball time. As small SBC start using PCIe more and more, do you see any standardization of cable/connector to remote mount boards ? (Mounting PCIe boards perpendicular to a SBC is not a great idea for many reasons.) I found one remote mount on eBay the looks like the one you have. Very inexpensive (
There are also 90° risers, which allow you to mount a card parallel to the IO board, though they would not do well without external support (e.g. a case and some mounting points) with many heavier cards.
The best solution would be either a riser or one of the flex cables with a case that supports the PCIe card (or multiple cards) more securely.
Maybe try some sound cards, as the sound quality may produce "fun" results.
I think red shirt Jeff would just cut a slot in the card, or cut off the extra contacts completely. I've done that with dual gigabit network cards to use in a single lane PCIe socket.
Ha, that's a more extreme possibility, but doable!
There are amd drivers for the Raspberry pi in Ubuntu. They released it like 2 weeks ago. They are probably stable now and might work with the cm4.
Another great video! Thanks Jeff.
Unfortunately I get a bit confused. Du I understand correctly that the Syba SD-PEX20199 Supports USB PD? I didn't find anything in the Amazon description or on the Website from Syba. Could a MacBook still be charged if the sata power connector is used? If yes witch IC is used for USB 3.0. is PD in the main IC or being supplied by a second chip?
It seems like it might, but I have not tested it... I keep forgetting to test it at all when I have it hooked up!
This is great and all but until the Pi Foundation can honor my pre-order from last October for my CM4 this is just prolonged tease of what I could do if I had mine.
Inb4 some madlad makes the first rpi with an rtx 3090
0:44 lots of the tests of NVME drives on PCIe gen2 x1 shows around 400MB/s read/write speeds, which makes 3.2Gbps total. So I guess you reach PCIe bandwidth limit in your setup. However, PCIe is a dual simplex bus, so it should push 5Gbps in both directions. I believe those Asus card could push more in bidirectional UDP iperf test with multiple streams (make sure that rss/rps is enabled in driver). However, I'm not sure that Pi is actually able to generate such an amount of traffic with iperf even if you use jumbo frames. Probably it can bridge this traffic from port to port, i.e. if you use external PCs as an iperf server and client.
_Should_, but in practice I'm not able to get more than ~4.16 Gbps bidirectional. More to come in the ASUS 10G NIC video ;)
Nice! Can't wait :)
thanks Jeff. Great video. Can you recommend a minimalistic IO board to add SATA to a Pi4?
"fittingly festive feast of fresh color" 👍
Please try some of the StarTech USB cards. The have some card with both USB 3.0 & USB-C ports. Adding more USB-C to a Rpi would really make it take off.
They have one that is a x1 but runs five(5) separate USB 3.x channels each with UASP on each channel instead of what most other cards which are actually a USB HUB with only one(1) 'REAL' USB 3.x channel.
Jeff，I'm developing with Compute Module 4 IO Board, I have a problem, I use the official file line PCIEx1, but I have a questionMy understanding should be
PCIE_TX_N --> PETN0
PCIE_TX_P --> PETP0
But the original line is
PCIE_TX_N --> PETP0
PCIE_TX_P --> PETN0
Is it possible to leverage a GPU for use cases other than video out?
Mining would be the obvious one, Plex on Pi is very functional with the exception of transcoding which potentially could be added with a half decent GPU
My main purpose for testing the Nvidia cards is to see if there's any way I can utilize the CUDA cores for ML/AI. Though there are other purpose-built chips like the Coral TPU that may be easier to get working.
What a great video! :)
HI jeff!!
i was so shocked the Possibility raspberry pi after saw your videos!
now i plan to build raspberry pi cluster!
can i ask some question?!
i now already buy pi4 4gb ram *4 for cluster
and i thought i need more pis!!
so plan to but pi3+ or pi4 2gb for working node
is it okay!?! for my little cluster!?
happy new years and always thanks for your awsome video!!!
love from south korea!
I would stick with the Pi 4 if possible. The extra RAM is handy, and the processor is twice as fast in many operations.
PCIe Gen2 has a transfer rate of 5 GT/s with a 8b/10b line code. That means, that for 8 bit of data, 10 bits have to be transferred. Thus the (theoretical) max. bandwidth of a PCIe Gen2 lane is 4 Gb/s or 0.5 GB/s. Thus the 3.3 Gb/s aren't actually that bad.
GPUs usually need the high bandwidth, provided by 16 lanes. I would not be surprised, if the video BIOS simply shuts down the card, when it detects that some lanes have no heartbeat.
I've been assured by a few people who work in/around AMD and Nvidia that the card _should_ still initialize on 1x, but it seems like we're possibly running into bugs in the Broadcom SoC PCI-E driver, or in some part of the code that deals with memory access and doesn't really work well with ARM (or at least all ARM64 variants).
@@JeffGeerling Yes, according to Wikipedia, it should be possible to establish a connection, as long as at least one lane is operable. As I have no experience with ARM, I can give no insight to PCIe-driver issues, sorry.
Hey Jeff (Red Shirt Jeff included), have you considered an ultrasonic knife instead of the xacto saw?
Heh, the first thing I thought of when you mentioned that is getting a darksaber (which would be cool to have, but is sadly only fictional...). But I haven't ever tried one (ultrasonic knife, that is), so I fear I might accidentally slice right through my desk and arm too.
But worth testing out, for someone who has one!
@@JeffGeerling I'm sure Red Shirt Jeff would use a darksaber every chance! I've used an ultrasonic knife several times in a prototyping lab, and they are far less scary than even a Dremel tool. I'd describe it as a fat handled xacto knife that cuts plastic like soft butter. And I'd say it's safer than the saw when considering nicking traces.
For the past 10 years I've been using PCI express for one thing only. Asus Xonar sound cards. Who convinced me? Fucking Realtek!
Jeff, why?
Please forgive me this question. Is it because of it's (or not) possible, or is it because it gives any meaningful sense...? 🤔 I cannot figure out, why I want to use a card on the pie.
Because the slot is there.
Hey Jeff . Sorry i‘m a newbie:-) i have the rpi4. When i buy the io board and cm4 do i Need the rpi4 anymore? How i understood the cm4 and io Board are Running without, Right? I Would like to have a nvme connected to my raspberry
"I don't think most people in their homes will have 10 gigabits for a while." I don't even have 1 gigabit.
Curious if any of those PCIE adapters work with Clockwork Pi Uconsole systems with the expander ports or if there is a way to plug into the CM4 PCIE directly.
I kinda want to try if sound cards work on this, that way I'm gonna have a mini midi controller....
I have a suspicion they wont.
The PCIe controller on the Pi4 doesn't support "IO BARs", that is not an issue for stuff that was designed from scratch in a modern way but its a big issue for stuff that was designed a long time ago and has received only minor updates since.
Well Done
PCIE slots typically supply up to 75w, how much power is the slot supplying? is it under what the GPU need to work properly? have you tried any with an external power supply?
The 12v supply on the slot goes directly to the power source I believe, so it's mostly up to what adapter or PSU you use. But safer to use an external riser with high-draw cards.
soldering iron to open that 1x port up
Indeed. Where is the fun. 👍
Thanks for sharing.
One thing I would really like you to test, the coolers and fans for the compute module 4.
Are the existing models for the raspi4 compatible?
Is there new products coming?
So far nothing to buy, but I know in the Turing Pi 2 renders, there's a massive passive heat sink that looks really nice.
@Jeff How did you get your hands on the ASRock M2_VGA? As far as I can see it isn't being sold anywhere.
I asked nicely :)
I'm testing it currently. Unlike boring Windows PCs like LTT tests, it takes a lot to get these things working on a Pi :D
@@JeffGeerling Good luck with your testing! If you haven't already tried it, maybe it would help to see whether the driver already works on x86 Linux.