How Front Suspension Works - /ENGINEERED
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2015
- Learn on Monday, wrench smarter on Sunday.
Introducing a NEW series on /DRIVE, aimed at educating you to build a faster, better, more reliable car: /ENGINEERED. We want to empower our fellow enthusiasts to know more, and do more, by learning from some of the best engineers in the game. 
Авто/Мото
Informative sketches? Check. Terrible handwriting? Check. It's the engineering way. Great video!!
Looks familiar? Yep!
/DRIVE has been doing a really good job of making a comprehensive look at theories behind general vehicle performance as of late. There are still plenty of details that can be covered.
+hmushmann2 Agreed but i am sure it will be over most peoples heads
+Balls Hence the general info. All the specifics require real measurements and a bit of 3 dimensional mathematical calculations that are well beyond the general physics that most people sign up for. This is why 2D drawings are used for simplicity.
+Engineering Explained How funny is it to see you in the comment section of this video. LMAO! I think you articulate your explanations a bit better than this guy.
This has quickly become one of my favorite series on RUclips. Please keep them coming !!!!
Great video!
I really want to thank you for these videos,
they are exactly what I have been looking for!
One can learn so much faster if he just listens
to an expert talking and explaining than threw a thousand animated explanations
which take 10 minutes to introduce a matter
which can be discribed within seconds.
I am really looking forward to the next episode.
+Peter Griffin
Couldn't agree more, this series is excellent.
I'd like to offend you,
what kind of Idiot are you
Do you want to come up with anti Squat anti Dive Suspension all by yourself?
Do you want to invent the engine and everything around it yourself?
You need to be at the current state of knowledge to improve on it,
otherwise you are damned to stagnate.
+WelLRoundeDSquarE lol, sure. you designed the chips in that computing device your using yourselve? really, you didn't? you are stagnating technology man, you shouldn't do that. if you keep that up we might end up back in the stone age.
or was that your evil plan to begin with? hmm, i'll keep an eye on you, WHO DO YOU WORK FOR, TELL ME!!!
Looks like you're trying to look smart. Trying too hard. What's with all of that space?
In gonna imitate you.
I
like apples because
they're tasty and they
also are healthy. I like their
shapes also.
Apples are
just generally amazing.
+WelLRoundeDSquarE So where's the suspension setup you've designed? And your patent? Sometimes we can't be the first one to do something, so we figure out a way to improve on what already exists. This is basic knowledge..
Gotta say each and every episode you guys make also reduces ricers by astronomical amounts!
Thanks and Good Job! /Drive
Lol, rice isn't for racing, rice is just a look.
Keep the learning videos coming!
Your supposed to give him the weed AFTER the interview.
you're
Go fuck you're self.
+AlexanderSuperTramp I thought the same thing lol
I was scrolling to the comment section to say the same thing! kids, don't do drugs (before interviews)
+AlexanderSuperTramp Definitely thought the same thing. This guy was high as shit lol. The video was good and I'm sure he's a smart guy, but it would have been a lot easier to follow if he could keep his thoughts straight.
Two thumbs up for this series of very useful information, that every car person should watch and enjoy!
Would love to see more videos featuring Filip Trojanek. His way of explaining is really great and he seems very knowledgeable!
Excellent tutorial, thanks for the video. Thumbs UP!
I'm quite thankful I live in an era where information is easy to get. I mean this series has been helping me to get lots of information about how thinks work on cars and gives me better knowledge.
The coolest series I've ever seen.
as someone whos rather new to cars i have to thank u for making these videos. i learn alot :D
These videos are awesome, definitely learning a ton
Thank you very much "Drice Channel"! I am learning so much new about the "tech stuff" of cars. If I was in the situation of choosing a career og what to take in College, it would definatly had been mechanical engineering, so I could work with this kind of stuff everyday. Cars
I've seen diagrams of some of the roll center and instant center stuff. When you lower a car if the LCA mount points are lower than the ball joints, you can actually make the car roll MORE than it did before lowering it.
Thanks for the informative tutorial.
The information is there, but it's the presentation that's lacking. But chassis and suspension engineers aren't hired for their eloquence. Good stuff!
Ok, now i know that my Altezza have "kinda cool" front suspension :D Thanks for /ENGINEERED series, kinda cool stuff ;)
Could you do an episode on wheel spacers? The positives negatives and how it affects the suspension usability and long term wear and tear? These episodes of Engineering are awesome keep it up!
Great series and episode. User friendly explanations helping sort out the dynamics of an auto. Very informative. Wish there was time and funds to do a tie in to lap times.
Great video, already knew alot of this from reading Mike Kojima's write ups on motoiq but the diagrams this guy made are helpful.
Just watched the video on Exhaust Tuning. These are highly informative. Debunks a lot of the myths just by explaining the physics.
*Wish there was a Full Detail version for the geeks and nerds.*
love these. keep em coming!
Great video man, keep them coming.
Thank you Drive for these informative videos
Great video, really enjoyed it!
he's inspiration, i love cars and im going to school next year for mechanical engineering
Those videos are awesome!
Good explanation and it#s really easy to understand.
Heck, I've made a video just to visually understand how a car suspension works. But if you add an engineere - it's just perfect!
Keep those videos coming :)
Honda was using SLA suspension since 1988 in every model honda including the crv there was SLA front suspension until 2001. That is why even until today the older civic and crxs are still dominate in their classes in road racing and autocross.
+Sounds of silence Citroen used it in the 1930's
Very help full thank you, I`m trying to go fast with out cutting the car up it`s been challenging to say the least.
Paul Walker with moustache
I thought the same and went to the comments to see if I was weird.
Thanks to me, we're not weird. Haha
learned a lot from this video /drive should keep it up
10:40 "What are OEM's working on?" was funny as both my 1978 Mercedes W123 & W116 have that high spindle with a short control arm. & zero scrub radius, umbelievable good feeling when drifting, different from later models which feel remote.
Superb tutorial
I'm now watching drive again because of these engineering videos
No discussion of Bump-Steer, Effects of altering static Toe settings, Roll-Couple, Advantages of high Castor settings, Weight Transfer, Wheel Travel, Un-Sprung Weight, Changes to Polar Moment, Replacing stock Bushings, Best types of Spherical Rod Ends and Bearings, Chassis flex, Reinforcements, Steering ratios, Roll Rate, Roll Resistance, Sway Bars, Springs & Spring rates, Aero Dynamics impact, Braking, Brake fluid, Cooling, Rotational Mass, Tires, Tire Temperatures, Understeer, Oversteer, etc just to name a few critical topics not covered. You can Google most of those terms to gain a better understanding of their impact on vehicle dynamics. This is not a simple subject as almost any change effects a myriad of other factors. Also a vehicle that seems to handle great at low speed can become a nightmare at high speed. A low speed slalom or autocross is one thing, a Race track is quite another. This is why Factories and Race Teams spend a tremendous amount of time getting the calibration right. One last correction. McPherson struts are an inferior suspension design only used to save money, just as live rear axles were for what seems like centuries. A good place to begin your education would be Carroll Smith's Engineer to Win and Tune To Win. Both excellent resources
+Mark Gundy Try fitting all that into a 15 minute video and tell me how much detail you can cover. And McPherson struts are not used only to save money. There is a reason Evos, M3s, and 911s, etc all use front struts. Lower mass, space savings, less NVH, and more suspension travel are some serious benefits. I'm not saying it's better than DW but all factors need to be considered
+bcballer13 My Bad, I wasn't aware there was a 15 mins limit... I owned an EVO VIII... modded to 400hp... made me a believer in AWD but... it used McPherson Struts because it's a super car made from a cheap econo box... the Lancer... space savings could be a valid argument but it's not lighter than a well designed double wishbone... suspension travel shouldn't be greater either or they would build offroad racers with them and they don't... but that's conjecture on my part, for the street or for a race track, suspension travel is not an issue unless you lower the chassis so much it hits the bump stops, in which case roll resistance rises to infinity and you suffer massive understeer (assuming this is the front suspension). The main problem with struts is the negative camber gain under roll (loaded in a corner) which then means to compensate for that you need to crack 5 or 6 degrees of static Negative Camber or crank in a tremendous amount of Positive Caster... adding Castor causes the tire/wheel combo to gain negative Camber as the loaded wheel is turned. You can also put very heavy springs up front to limit body roll but high spring rates cause transition handing to suffer tremendously often making the car difficult to drive. Another better way to limit body roll is with much larger diameter sway bars... you can usually find kits for most performance cars or you can have your own manufactured or do what the Nascar folks do and use hollow splined bars with adjustable end links. Most chassis have a tremendous amount of flex... sway bars are typically mounded in bushings... you can replace with stiffer bushings or use aluminum pillow blocks. You can also play with toe settings to dial out understeer on initial turn in. Keep in mind, every one of these things are band-aids to deal with an inferior suspension design. Having said that, we did manage to get several different sedans with McPherson's to lap at consistently high speeds. But the compromises also effect other things like straight line braking performance, inconsistent tire temperatures causing premature tire wear and sometimes tread failure... the ideal would be to have a perfectly flat tire to the pavement regardless. This is much easier to do with a well designed SLA suspension and transitional handling is generally more manageable for the driver when changing directions near the adhesion limits. I've had extensive experience modifying both types of suspension set ups. I'm surprised to hear the M3 uses struts, but then the Germans can make anything work... the 911 being a perfect example. Ironically, Porsche has turned it's legendary toe-steer or bump-steer problem in the rear suspension into a performance advantage as they have now designed a rear suspension that is self steering, at slow speed adding toe out to cause the car to turn more easily at slow speed and thus feeling more nimble to the driver, with doing the opposite at high speed to make the car more stable... brilliant solution and leave it to Porsche to turn a weakness into a strength. I assume you must own a vehicle with Struts.... which is why I wrote about possible mods for that type of suspension. I hope you find some of that explanation helpful.
+Mark Gundy sweet, i have a 280z
Braden Wuesthoff I well recall the Datsun 240Z when it was launched... a revolutionary sports car at the time that's seen plenty of action on the race track... that inline 6 cylinder was a stump puller... never had the pleasure of driving the 280Z but I'm sure it's just more of a good thing... congrats on owning a classic.
+Mark Gundy I guess I should have added, the single most important component of your suspension are your tires. A good rule of thumb is to match the section width of your tires to the rim width. This allows the sidewalls to have greater support which is critical in transitional handling. The shorter the sidewalls the less flex there will be, hence the move with performance tires to lower profiles. This is the golden Age of cars so enjoy it... in 20 years or less, the Government will most likely Ban human control of vehicles, entrusting the job only to AI. There are some merits to this but it's certainly not a future I look forward to.
I'm thinking of creating a widebody NA or NB Miata, but I want to maintain the original wheel offset to spare the wheel bearings.. Can I design longer control arms to place the uprights further out? Will I need to make an adjustment to make the upper control arms proportionally shorter?
13:33 "it will direct you in the correct direction" hmm got it, excellent explanation lol!
How does changing the lower ball joint position (height) without compensating for the angle change difference with tie rod effect the bump steer ? I was always told if they're in a different arc, you'll exaggerate the effects of bumps steer.
amazing thing for me is that i already know everything from you r engineered videos and perhaps even more than what is discussed (as an engineer) but realistically i dont have a job.
I think he misspoke a few times but the information here is certainly better than anything I've seen on cable TV back when I watched cable tv...
/Engineered
/Baked
Best channel on youtube! Learning is good! Now back to Fallout.
This makes me wonder about my set up on my 2013 Civic Si I lowered it between 1" and 1-1/2". How bad did I screw up my suspensions geometry?
awesome video! Thanks for explaining all of that; especially that "scrub radius" concept. So with a lower offset wheel or spacers, one would just need to find a way to reduce that scrub radius for "lighter" steering....and I guess this could be done by either by extending lower control arms and/or moving the strut top more towards the engine (inwards) OR maybe a larger diameter wheel/tire (which really would not be too practical in most cases.
my only complaint and dont get me wrong i love these videos is i wanna hear more about trucks! what about a truck suspension set up? the one on my 09 ram 1500 i guess would be considered the last one he talked about that even the gtrs have (kinda sorta same general idea) MORE TRUCKS
where were all these awesome diagrams and thorough explanations during the anti squat/dive episode? this was great!
dude kinda reminded me of paul walker... great video!!
+Live Wire i'm not the only one thinking that XD
good video my 300 has the new style shown here.
A lot of cars have a Mac Pherson strut up front and dual wishbone in the rear. How difficult is it, or is it even possible, to change from a strut to a dual wishbone setup?
Do a /engineered about transmissions. Or about whatever you like, I will still watch.
Hey Filip!, this was very Educational!...I have a 2003 Ford Mustang GT/Cobra Project and currently all stock except for a complete New 2003 Cobra front Clip! I plan to also swap out my SRA for a 03 Cobra IRS later and an engine swap like a 5.0L coyote or a Shelby GT500 5.4L S/C or 5.8L S/C engine, along with a 5sp. manual trans swap to a 6R80 6sp Auto Trans!
Meanwhile, How much would it cost me to have my 03 Mustang Mac Pherson Strut suspension upgraded to an SLA Front Suspension setup? Thanks and God Bless!
any links to the mustang in the thumbnail? thanks!
No one has ever explained it so clearly to me before. Thanks.
+DjRjSolarStar Yet he forgot one of the most obivous reasons, that the McPerson unit is used as widely as i currently is.
+Anton “2-Kronen” Kolding and that would be what?
+eatsleepbike it's cheap! still strong, but simple and light despite the inelegance.
I am an engineering student as well. It is a good field for a car guy/tech guy.
" it will correct you in the correct direction" haha, he said that just after i thought "jeez, stop annoying the guy by switching between multiple cameras".
+murpy eddie Ya that got my attention also. The video before this one at least the guy just ignored which camera was on him and talked. This guy had to make sure he was always looking at the camera and it seemed the director was having a nice joke on him by switching between cameras every two seconds.
Kinda hard to understand. but a good starting point for some googling haha
SO thats what General Zod does for his day job
For anyone building their own suspension a good book that goes along with what he's talking about is Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams
thanks !
This guy missed a lot of things, but there's a lot of useful information in this video that i'm thankful he covered. This video would be so long if he had gone into enough depth. You ought to talk to somebody more used to SLA than McPherson though. McPherson really has no place in racing.
You guys should talk to Jim Steedman from Navcon Engineering. That guy is an expert in chassis dynamics.
Welcome in the world of automotive engineering.
great shit
Lowering only the front end of a car adds castor right? Is there any benefit to slightly raising the front of a car (while adjusting castor back to the stock value)?
+Nick Amarit Lowering the front gives the car a pleasing rake look... there might also be some slight aerodynamics improvement but I doubt there is any appreciable change in castor. The best way to think of castor is to imagine the front fork on bicycle... when that fork is straight up and down you have zero castor. When the fork is tilted forward you have positive castor. You can hold your hand straight down and visualize the effect... when your hand is vertical (Zero Caster), you see no Camber change to your hand as your turn it left or right. If you tilt your hand forward however, and then turn your hand, you will see a pronounced negative Camber increase. With some suspensions, this can allow you to run less static Camber, improving braking performance and tire wear while at the same time adding much needed Negative Camber as the wheel is turned. I ran 6 degrees of Positive Camber on my double wishbone, 1974 Chevrolet Vega and 1 degree of Negative Camber with 1/8th inch toe-in. With dry weight just over 2,100 lbs the Car consistently turned 1.1 G's on a 100 foot Dia Skidpad back in the 80's while running on a 185 BF Goodrich T/A Radials and 13x7 rims. The Vega was a cheap American sedan with a crude live rear axle and a terrible motor but the balance of the Chassis from the Factory was 51/49 and the front suspension had an almost ideal Camber Gain curve through rise and droop and the overall weight was low. I mention this to prove the importance of balance. I spent hundreds of hours with that vehicle, changing one thing then another and then noting the effect on handling. Tires have improved enormously in the last 30 years. We used to use a large grinding wheel to round the edges of the tire, not a pleasant experience for the nostrils. Now all performance tires come that way and with lower tread depths and much stickier compounds. Changing your chassis is easy... but changing it so that the vehicle behaves in a linear, predictable fashion is the trick. Everything you change has a positive and negative effect. When the Factory designed these they factored in numerous compromises in every decision. Remember it's all about balance in the end.
Mark Gundy So, is there any benefit to slightly raising the front of a car?
Also, on another note, I've always thought rake and castor were the same thing.
So what should I do if I want wider tire with wide body kit, I really don't want to screw my car handling.
If you are going for the looks anyway, you wouldn't care...
please do rear suspension with maier racing!!!
Is SLA same as double wishbone?
Why do mustang suspension manufacturers seem to disagree on whether to use drop ball joints?
Anybody care to chime in?
PLEASE DO A VIDEO ON THE BEST USED FIRST CARS UNDER 5000!
I have to be honest here. I love this series, I've learnt from every single one including this one. But this one is the least comprehensive due to this dudes many (weed induced) uh's. :P
More cortex videos! More installation videos and setup please.....
Can you align my car please? This is some awesome info.
10:55 most new cars? Honda went to that design with many of their cars in the late 80's, then switched to McPherson on many in the early 00's. I think a few like the TSX still have double wishbone.
also the new jag has the same front setup. (the later of the SLA configuration)
nice
All these videos teach me is that there's a whole lot of shit I don't know about cars!
Congrats to Philip Trojanek on your work with Cortex Racing Suspension
listening to this guy talk after Mr. Dinan, what a contrast lol
Can someone help me understanding rake?
/DRIVE TV is the best
Interesting. Funny thing, his voice sounds just like my manager, voice wise and pronunciations. lol
he missed roll centre!
+tr0n well he seem clueless on center of gravity so they stop him their. but center of gravity is what you try to move to tune a car most. roll center is kinda fix for the fact on most cars you can only change 1 pivot point.
it's not really a fix...it's a byproduct. it's the centre of leverage for the suspension and the further away it gets from the centre of gravity the more roll is induced into the suspension despite geometry and stiffness changes.
it's a real problem with macpherson strut systems.
it's like the centre of lift being in a different place than the centre of mass on an aircraft.
cause you two both own your own tuning shop and build race cars aye.....bwahahah
tr0n i said it's kinda fix the point to move it on most cars is only in one spot. i did not say completely fix. you can put your roll center where ever you want it. the most importing thing is to get your center of gravity. this tell how much pressure is getting on your tires. the thing is with roll center is your suspension works best if the lower arms are even with the surface you are driving on so you really dont want to change your lower angle. the upper links is to do with how much weight you want to transfer and how fast you want it to transfer this is changing your center of gravity. the higher you make your upper link the mass of weight is lower. the higger upper pivot point make less weight transfer (this is lowering your center of gravity). the angle of the upper link give you -/+ camber gain to help keep your tire flat. if your outside link point is lower than your inside link point you get + camber gain. if your inside link point is lower than your outside link point you get - camber. you inside upper point height tells how much weight of chassis will get on your outside tire... so you really cant tune your car with roll center for the fact the the other point play a bigger roll in other parts in how the car will handle.
+tr0n And instant centre, drive/squat
He Reminds Me Of Paul Walker.
Muscle relaxers??
And what about Ford Revoknuckle or Toyota Superstrut
88-01 civics have that sla axle design wich only expensive cars are supposed to have.
99Lezard99 lol I was thinking the same thing. I guess $3000 is expensive for some people
Anyone know the song from 0:20 to 3:50? Shazam comes up with a different result every time. lol Good video, BTW.
What year is that old red mustang? Not a huge muscle guy
+Blehtubezz Aus thanks
Filip Trojanek? Pretty exotic name in USA I guess... But not here in Czech Republic :D
+Matej Sommer not here in new jersey. haha we have every european living around here.
all other videos have been great, this one left alot to be desired. if we could get another video on sispension that would be great. guy knows his stuff, but explaining it isnt a strong point here..
PRESENTED BY CHRISTIAN V KOENIGSEGG?!??!
yes noticed that as well. copy pasted the outro bur forgot to change the names lol.
Paul Walker is a smart dude.
anyone notice the sticker on the lift?
The heck with talking about suspensions; you should audition for The Bachelor TOUT SUITE!!!!!!!
I wish I knew stuff.
someone explain Akerman to me please ?
I really liked the video. But the buzzing/race car passing noise kept annoying the crap out of me.
Camber effect 6 times while eating cheese: said it
racecar sounds played in background can go away..
I think you overloaded him with too many cameras dude