[SF: Duel] - C. Viper vs Guile! Debate is always going on! Here is my weigh in on WHO is better!
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- Hey guys,
I think everyone needs to see this comprehensive comparison and decide for yourselves who is better. RIP Tupac and Biggie. Don't make it that situation!
You'll see the reference inside lol.
Enjoy!
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In my opinion regardless of who is better, I usually advice to grab Guile because when you start and especially as f2p the wind faction is your friend.
Any faction draw you have should be wind and therefore your Guile will be up to SSS+3 or higher after 8 weeks of playing, not to mention every 45k tokens is another copy so it's also really easy to get him to SSS very fast. So as a carry he is good, easy to get, easy to awaken and he will be good until even after you get your Fblanka or you can link your Fblanka to him and benefit from the high SSS tier (not recommended as Guile + Fblanka + Bzan are nutty together).
When it comes to building viper, you should not spend faction draws as with flame faction there is Viper and Dhalsim and the others you rather not want, so it's harder to get viper up there and if you do you're making suboptimal plays and hurting your general progress as drawing flame faction can only get you Viper for Storymode and when you do wind draws, you get Chun-Li, Beast Zangief, Street Poison, Cammy, Guile and Abel (low prio but eventually needs to tank higher wind faction and very lategame he can be your 2nd tank).
Not claiming Guile is X times better or outright better here, but in terms of how easy it is to get Guile makes all the difference imho, combine that with how good the other wind units are that you draw when trying to get more copies of Guile it's a done deal (at least for me, to each his own of course).
Anyway, that's my 50 cents. ^^
Good advice. I actually had better luck with viper but ya guile is more accessible as well because u can get him from the city shop fairly early and get around 3 copies quickly
while you make some solid points i actually think wind being so strong is why it will be hard to build guile. your wind fodder should go to street poison + b. zangief 1st.while for flame there isnt anyone else to prioritize over viper so you have plenty of flame fodder. the lack of fodder avaulability is why i still havent rushed to build guile, esp now we have f blanka now.
@@vicluu4122 Street poison is not a priority at all for storymode progress, you NEED a carry. Guile, Bzan and Cammy are usually your 3 priorities when it comes to the wind faction. You get so many wind units those 1st 3 aren't that much of an issue, especially as with a strong wind team like that you be up to wind tower 121 in no time. Regarding Beast Zangief, you don't always pull him early and he can still function when you build after you have build your Guile. Until 15-40 he can just hide behind a real tank if needed, all you need is a well timed C2 and if you do that he receives minimal damage while your carry goes supercombo C3 either as Guile or viper.
As I said the main issue is, that you can not force Viper without hurting your general progress, you are either lucky and get 8 vipers from your non faction pulls or you're not and then she won't be SSS while guile you can just buy his copies and you can easily push him to SSS. The thing is with average or bad luck your Guile will still get to SSS really fast while your Viper can get stuck on SS and you're in the waiting room and you can't go 200+ or put cars on her and that also hurts your progress.
Regarding Fblanka... you won't have Fblanka if you play active and regularly as f2p for your 1st 7 to 8 weeks. I was already at 26-1 in storymode and tower 300 before I received my Fblanka. Waiting on Fblanka isn't great advice imo and Fblanka uses agility gear, if you build Viper your will probably have a full tech set and if you build Guile you will have a full power set, so even the day you get Fblanka you still need more time to get him to FS+10 and 20 and to build his gear and most f2p don't have that as they did have to invest it into their main carries.
Aside from that, in storymode I think Guile can give Fblanka a run for his money, once Guile is at FS+30 that 2nd and/or 3rd Saber kick annihalate everything.
Don't get me wrong, I do think Viper should be the 1st fire faction you build to SSS it's just not as easy as getting a Guile and if you do get lucky on 8 vipers, well yes then you can pick either one of them and it will be fine, as stated earlier in terms of who you end up with, it doesn't matter to much I think, but from a road of least resistance perspective I am in the Guile camp.
Guile is definitely a good choice because he's available in the city shop (or one of the shops anyway) but this satsui mode of shadaloo city seems to hate giving me wind teams so I'm glad I had C Viper instead, Paynes advice to build both is a good idea because of this and I'll build Guile eventually but I've honestly been fine with Chun Li up to this point so far on wind team.
@@Sylva1983 the point is even if you don't prioritize street poison (who i feel is at minimum SS priority for her FS +20). you stil are cycling through at least 2 SSS units worth of fodder before you get to guile in your case. the biggest difference is you will have plenty of fodder availability for c viper, so if you get enough copies for her, she's much easier to build. she's also not as reliant on +30 FS or on cars like guile is. rng did not choose me to get guile despite all those wind fodder tokens, and i did calculation even w buying his copies and wasting my tokens in that shop, i still wouldn't have enough to SSS before f-blanka came out, and ended up getting c-viper before then so you can toss your projected odds out the window bc you have to play hand RNG gives YOU.
I love that you've made this comparison. Right now viper and guile are my main carries and I'm often stuck on which one I should be using. Thank you @payneblade
My pleasure bro. Both OP and both amazing for different situations
Guile is better for clearing tanks ⚡. C. Viper is better for clearing assassin's 🌀
Best tanks in the game are lightning units. Wind beats Lightning.
Best assassin's in the game are wind units. Fire beats wind.
Blanka in the mix as a counter to both C. Viper, and Guile. He's also a counter to B. Zangief.
When Payne said "Dont make this a Tupac or Biggie thing" just became my favorite SFDuel streamer. Keep it up Payne
lol gotta learn from that tragedy! RIP BIG and Pac
I am currently at chapter 30 as a F2P player, and the thing I found disappointing is that the only thing you actually change from your team is the damage dealer. Bison, Beast Zangief and Street Poison are must have. The rest is all up to whoever you got more copies. I hope they introduce more characters that can have the interrupt mechanic on a different faction or a tank that's strong enough to compete with Bison
agreed but also keep in mind when u hit 36-24 u need two teams and bzang no longer can carry with bison so soon u will have to rely on other strats :)
There he goes, there he goes again. Spitting that hot fire. Keep up the great work buddy. I need to start using viper for bison stages
feeling like dylan. Who are the top 5 rappers of all time, think about it, dylan, dylan, dylan, dylan and dylan CAUSE I SPIT HOT FIRE! (God I hope you get the reference lol)
@Payneblade Chappelle show of course. That was my teenage years in a nutshell. Much live brotha. Well keep doing little back and forth.
Lol me too bro. Chappelle show was my 20s. Greatest skit comedy ever
First off, love your videos Payne!
My take, if you are a brand new player, Viper 100%. Mainly because you are bottlenecked by faction types when upgrading initially.
Wind is taken by BZang, Lightning is taken by Elena (or MRyu), Flame is Viper.
That leaves you with 1 character left to build to make a 4 man team. I went Guile and I kind of regret it to start because Viper and Guile fill the same role. I wish i had gone Cammy instead because now i dont have a boss killer. If I had built Cammy instead i could have an easy starting story + boss killing team.
Bison, Bzang, Elena, Viper for Story
Bison, Bzang, Elena, Cammy for Bosses
Also, i know Street Poison is preferred over Elena starting out, but you run into the same problem. Its hard to build Bzang, Guile, Cammy AND Street Poison starting out since they're all wind. You need to pick a couple to focus in the beginning.
Hey Ren! Thanks buddy. Very good points. The only real benefit in terms of getting guile early is from city shop and a few copies. They do indeed fill the same role as dps but very differently. Street poison is definitely the preference and really can be used as an A even for her buffs
24-40 is a nightmare level lol anyone else at that level or had trouble ??
That's a hard one. Guile actually carried me through that one.
Viper at 239, zang at 239, bison and s poison at 200 got it done for me
220 Fashion Blanka. 200 s+ Bison, sss Bz, S poison made me through
Barely got through with 239 viper, 239 bison, 220 s poison and Elena
A nightmare. I was stuck there for 3+ weeks
Ah your explanation of Viper's FS makes my suddenly easier time landing BZang interrupts understandable..! 😅
lol i'm glad to hear it
That's what I keep telling people almost all players are good it just depends who you mix them with.
Very true. Some better then others but everyone can have a spot with the right team
“They act like two legends can’t co-exist”
haha that's what's up
2pac VS Biggie xDDD.
I use both of them for cheese/story (mainly Guile ,and Viper replaces Guile VS Bison stages).
- Entry moves : Guile's sometimes completely misses (but can hit all the team when they are cornered). Viper does insane damage and never (?) misses plus sometimes hit multiple targets.
- C3 : Insane damage on both. Hard to tell which one is better but I think Guile wins when maxed (more later). Also Guiles range seems higher (?) and thats also important to note even though his animation is worse when he gets his fighting spirit...why :(
- Fighting Spirit : Here's when I went for Guile first and not Viper. Both are amazing and worth to max, but I think the potential of the free explosions (without losing Sabers,which not also keeps his damage up but also you can SPAM insane damage faster than Viper IF you use multiple combos one after another, viable on bosses,shadaloo, inverse world,etc) are way better than the energy from Viper, because the extra charges go to RANDOM teammates and by the point they get something worthy the battle is already over. With that said I havent tested her enough to see if she gains fast enough charges to make a difference there.
As a sidenote : I dont understand how in the hell can you even get max stacks on Sabers with his passive as an assist. Unless I'm doing the math wrong,its absolutely impossible to reach max saber counts with that crappy trigger interval.
- Cars : Viper is way better BUT if you use her for cheese, you might consider unequip her SSS cars (if you have more than 3 but less than 6) because her passive trigger will make you lose damage.
All very good points. The stacking of max Saber is not ideal imo cause u don't really pair guile with any other range units. As for vipers 6 car I love it cause 3 car also let's everyone with armor energy also get that shield and then her 6 cars gives enough super bar that u can actually perform back to back combos before the opponent even has time to do 1
@@PayneBlade I went full fighting spirit on him because I still need her 6 cars ,but if I had ultimate max stacked both of them I think I would use Viper over Guile most of the times.
Guile cars shouldn't be a priority ever,but since you can get more guaranteed copies of him ,he should perform better until late game/P2W where Viper will offer way more to your team
There is one thing missing: the combo numbers.
Guild has c1 and c3, Viper has c2 and c3 with Bison having c1 and c3, it is harder to make a full combo if 1 or 2 other members of the team died. So if Beast Zangif died you can build your full combo only if you have another member with c2 to compensate Beast Zangif.
If the next member died. you can have only a combo of two.
With Viper it's easier because of her c2. So you can perform a combo of three, Bison take c1 and Viper the super + c2. Which can make the difference between win and lose.
Very good and valid outlook
Great point man ! 👍
Poison has a C2 that acts like an interrupt if timed well. If Bzan dies you go into Guile, Bison, Spoison, Guile but regardless when your Bzan dies it's pretty much just a do-over, because at some point they are like 1M+ in power higher then you and it's interrupt or die regardless of who your carry is.
and sometimes the ai is dumb. when B.Gief dies with Guile main for some reason my ai will just use guiles Super and nothing else afterwards instead of Guile > M.Bison > S.Poison > Guile. And I'm forced to do it manually
Ya auto in this game is really bad. Should really manual most of it
Make one on "Guy". Dude's really one of the most neglected troop. I think he's more than average
will get there!
Just a head up, you kind of glossed over that Vipers Flame and Thunder damage go to 300% each from level 2 and 3 and only acknowledged her gaining shock and burn
good catch, my bad
I’m halfway through the video and I already know Viper is the better option overall since she goes well with almost any team. Viper will also mop the floor with Guile due to type advantage lol.
Haha u aren't wrong in some of that analysis for sure
Yo Payne can you make a video on boost stones and when to use them. I can't find anyone sharing that topic.
Did that already bro. I have a full guide on fighting spirit 0-40. ruclips.net/video/slU4cpiotZo/видео.html
I do have to choose one or the other ! You need bison as a tank to progress low to mid game , my experience thus far .., BZ can’t tank but you Need his interupt . So that’s 2 thus far .. you need damage in back line and for the 4th is for Elena or for street poison .. I can’t win where I’m at if I remove street poison or Elena, bison , or BZ. So I can only use 1!
S poison for back for sure and as for dps u really can go either or both haha. When fighting tanks teams or bison team in front I use viper. If bison mid and against 2 dps I use guile
Hey man, when/if you get a slot next, can you add me to your ingame so I can use your mercs ❤
Thanks for all the videos!
will do bro. let me see who I can remove later
@@PayneBlade thanks man. Also, do you think MH ken will ever come back out? I’m sitting on 35/60 shards for him :/
Can't say man. Not sure what they plan on him
It's an assassin's and soldier's world.....and I've only got a master of yoga 😂
lol that yoga master trying to burn everything down tho!
For Guile's cars. Does BZang's combo 2 (tornado) count as a ranged attack?
Melee sadly
Dam, gotcha. Thanks!
I use Guile with Viper for assist
Good option
Guilie is undeniable the best story unit, but viper has way more usage outside story, That being said viper has more value BUT people like to weight story units higher
Imma prove they are equal in story mode :). I'll be on stage 27 soon and u guys all have over a month over me!
@@PayneBlade thats true i have both viper is on par after chap 30 u see the diffrence since guilie has def shred which scales better at latter content
Love fighting Vipers 😅 I just put M. Bison in my back line and she kills herself.
Viper was always my pick idk why, she’s so good doing thunder and fire dmg same time
She is amazing
I am working on both though my c viper close to sss just need one more my journey i had gulie first got c viper after she was harder to get then gulie beside my luck still both are good i just c viper is better aoe knockback on back the best
wish this game was more popular, my server is completely empty, my guild have only like 10 ppl active and its first in the server, zzzzzz
Ya some servers died out fast sadly. U can recruit outside your server tho so check out which battle zone you are in.
Guile is good when you unlock his sss cars,he does not need saber no more and can use his ability at full force.
Yea guile becomes even more OP with his cars
Guile is better for 1 reason and 1 reason only. His cars and FS+30 make him deal more damage. Viper cars are a defense buff and her +30 buffs your teammates.
Until you get to that point Viper is tons better.
That said both are amazing and Viper is still extremely useful, but if you have to choose which to +30 and use car selectors on the answer is Guile.
I tend to disagree a bit that guile is the better choice. I'm going to prove it on my f2p. I'm one month behind everyone and now on stage 27 with viper main and hoping to eventually catch up. No mercs either so I'm doing this just her and her cleavage
@@PayneBlade I built 2 F2P one with Viper one with Guile. You NEED both. In the end Guile does the bigger numbers because his 3/6 and +30 enhance his damage and for Viper it enhances other things.
Personally i built guile and put c viper as his assits and fun fact she actually can interrupt with that assits.
she is one of the best assists for sure
I think they both excel in different fights like guile better vs gen imo and guile better vs bison when bison has a tank because u will reach a point when bison is in the back... but i have viper edging out guile by just a little bit...
Agreed! Although I have them both on equal playing fields but situationally used
@@PayneBlade u right since I built up viper I've been doing alot better im a guile abuser currently stuck on 28-40 i truly believe u gotta break the 240 level limit to beat that everyone else i saw beat it broke the level barrier except 1 guy that did it with a lv 239 gore ken..🥲🥲
Quick un-related tip : when re-rolling for factional gear don't put the gear on the characters your re-rolling for.... you almost never get what you need. However.. if you equipt it to a character of a different faction you will almost always get the one you needed in the first place in about 1 to 3 rolls..
i think that maybe just good RNG at times :). I just tried it and it didn't work for me :(
Here is where I’m gonna disagree slightly. You build Guile first. Why? Because when you do faction summons Wind has so much good stuff. Viper is amazing. She should be built. But when it comes to faction summons wind just has to many good units to pull and progress you in tower and world tour.
Lol and then I read other comments that all said the same thing 😂
Half and half on comments tbh. Some thing because wind has too many options that you are going to get other units to build and guile may not always be there. I think both are needed and personally I find viper a bit better overall but love guile too
Lol "This ain't no Tupac vs Biggie"
Rip legends!
As a character, I think Viper is better. But when you consider their factions and who they're strong against, Guile is better.
They both definitely have their strengths over the other
@Payneblade definitely, Viper is actually who I prefer. But when the hardest enemies to deal with are Thunder faction because of Honda, Elena, and Gief I have to give Guile the edge.
He definitely shreds tanks up
@@PayneBlade right, and that's the only problem I have with Viper. Killing teams with those specific units.
Viper is better cuz she got those 2 aoe attacks and has fire and electric
I think payne is the most op
😎😅
i got that c.viper luck as f2p she sss+2 now
Yea Mines at sss+3 on f2p
dhalsim is crying in the corner
I have him maxed out with cars and his fs 30 makes his burn damage insane
Haha ya dhalsim is great. Just a tad bit behind these 2 tho
Let’s be real, Sonic BEWM.
Ngl I like viper c3 calling people "beech ass"