I've just gone full stereo for the first time using a DSM Humboldt simplifier. Using the Simplifier's headphone output it sounds INCREDIBLE... I've noticed through a PA that it it sounded really thin... not what it was like through headphone output.
There are a few other variables switching from headphones to a PA. Headphones (especially if they are in-ears) will inherently have more low end and EQ will sound different right off the bat... Then you have the sound engineer and his/her take on what your guitar 'should' sound like etc. If you think all of that has been accounted for, I'd get in touch with Humbolt and see what they have to say. I can understand how frustrating this would be though... from getting an amazing sound and ready to show it off live and it's far from what you know it should be...
I'm running 2 amps currently, Carvin X50b with 4x12 cab and a Marshall jcm800 4010 combo and want to actually add my Peavey stereo chorus 212 and Peavey Bandit 112. I just got the 2 amps in phase using a Earthquaker Swissthings pedal (such a great pedal). But now I'm out of output options for the other 2 amps. Yeah I know it's overkill, but it sounds so good, different equipment filling the frequency spectrum!
ya nice. Sounds like you've got it dialed and are just needing to fix this last piece of the puzzle. If those other two amps are out of phase with the first two (that are now in phase due to the swiss things) there are pieces of gear out there to help, but if they are all in phase - you're good (until you get a ground loop assuming you play different venues with this exact setup).
@@GoodwoodAudio no it all sits at home lol. I love the frequency spread and the big sound. I'm really wanting to incorporate the Peavey stereo chorus 212 though, just might have issues, maybe use one of the 2 outputs on the MXR stereo chorus? It has a mono and stereo out, wondering if I will get lucky and it'll work or just mess it up and go out of phase on the setup? I run the whole system off an ART power conditioner, all amps and the pedal board power along with a ART sge processor in the effects loop on the Carvin.
Awesome video man! It helped me a lot! But I have one question: I run 2 stereo outputs from my pedalboard (one dry and one wet). If I use a pedal inverting the polarity of only 1 of my 2 outputs directly to the input of my amp (I have 2 combo amps and I dont want to reverse the wires of the speakers inside) The inverted polarity should work just fine without blowing my amp? Thank you very much!
What an awesome explanation! Thank you man. I just got a question in my mind. Suppose you run a Vox ac 30 and a fender deluxe reverb. They are out of phase so you fix it with a transformer at then of the chain (after the amps in a modeler). The case is fixed now. However, I was wondering if any other pedals like an overdrive in mono or a reverb in stereo can make the amps sound out of phase again.
overdrives often invert, but if they are in mono this isn't an issue as it will affect both amps the same. The issue is usually more if you're running parallel effects...phase can become an issue there. So generally (95% of the time) if you flip the polarity on one 'amp' you're good to go!
A word of warning. Most tube amps change phase with channel switching. This can be a pain if you're using a di for reamping or using more than one amp and switching just one.
Hi. For starters, great video! I've watched several of your videos in the past looking for answers to other issues and they usually leaves me with more answers than questions. A rare trait these days. Guess I'm a bit late to the party but I have had issues with my home/recording rig for years now which I suspect is related to phase and/or current leakage. Guitar > pedalboard > Yamaha THR 10C. I live in a flat so never use the onboard speakers, only headphones. The issues (soggy, muddy grainy tone with zero high freq. integrity, fluctuations in stereo spread and volume) seem to follow no pattern at least I can identify. Despite having no details - do you recon there's any possibility of phase issues in this sort of rig? Any reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Hey Ben. Thanks for checking them out. The main line that concerns me / makes this harder is 'Seems to follow no pattern'. If it's hard to replicate it makes it infinitely harder to troubleshoot. With that being said, I would probably start with guitar - 1 stereo pedal - Yamaha... See if the issue shows up. If not, add in one more pedal (mono or stereo), repeat... keep adding one pedal at a time. If you can narrow it down to one pedal (some pedals invert only when ON, not in bypass mode). So you could see if it's pedal related this way. If it's an issue with the yamaha, I would have a crack at replacing that with another equivalent (maybe an amp sim/cab?) OR a different amp entirely. Generally I start with the simplest rig possible and add complexity while testing along the way.
I have a fender blues deluxe and Vox ac30 in stereo and using the underfacer, I have the tx and 180 button pushed in. I’m getting bottom end but it seems as most of the sound is coming from the fender amp and not the vox.
I’m trying to run a UA ruby and a ACS1 as a stereo rig together, they sound good I think, but I wanna know in the case I realize they are out of phase, can my Radial Pro D2 fix that? Or even the Walrus Canvas Stereo? Or would I need to by something like the Output? Also do you think these two amp phases are out of phase? They don’t sound thin or anything but I’m worried now lol
your radial won't be able to fix it because it doesn't have a phase button on it...just pad and ground lift. The Canvas could though! It has phase. I actually don't know 100% if they are out of phase or not... we recently did a video on the ACS1 and Ruby (among others) and I don't remember having to change anything phase related... so I think you're good, but not 100%!
Does it true if the hx stomp product with dual amp streo set up will not producing any phase issue ? i’ve been told like that, can anyone confirm this ?
If I'm splitting my signal immediately after my guitar, and one line goes through pedals to "amp A", but the other line goes directly to "amp B" through NO pedals... could there still be phase issues?
Definitely. I'd say you're at a much higher risk of phase issues this way as overdrives / fuzz will often invert phase. This means even if your amps are normally in phase, running them this way could mean you're in phase when no drives are on and back out of phase when certain drive pedals are engaged. It's hard to predict which pedals will invert unless you already know how they behave or try it out yourself.
Is it possible to have certain frequencies that still cause phase issues even if the two amps are in phase, particularly with high gain tones? Im running a dual amp setup, one real amp and one digital model on an hx stomp. Both are going into the stomp to use impulse responses. Im able to flip the phase in the hx stomp. If i check by having both run up the center you can still hear what seems to be phase issues. Then when you pan hard left and right it sounds good but still sounds like it maybe slightly out of phase.
what is more likely is they are not perfectly 180 degrees out... which is also VERY common... but if something is 90degrees out as an example... flipping phase / inverting polarity isn't going to fix anything. You'll still be 90degrees out of phase. With standard guitar gear, the 'fix' for this is not easy. you'd need to be able shift the phase by 90degrees rather than flip polarity by 180 with a transformer or an opamp.
I am running dream and ruby in stereo, and I use goodwood audio output tx so I can invert the phase! But I am wondering if I can use dream and ruby before big sky and output tx Do I need to put dream and ruby right before output tx to correct the phase? Or can I just put dream and ruby before modulation and invert the phase at the end of the chain (tx)?
@@GoodwoodAudio thank you!! One more question here. I am running dream and ruby together into wet effects (bigsky, timeline) I heard somewhere that if I invert the phase with diso at the very end of the chain, the sound will get worse than inverting the phase before wet effects! So is it best for me to invert the phase before wet effects if I am running dream and ruby into wet effects? And in the second scenario, if I put wet effects before dream and ruby, is it better to invert the phase at the very end of the chain or at the very first input? Thank you!!
Aww, man... this is what I was wondering about too. More specifically, if it is anything other that 180 degrees out of phase. I am thinking I could run a sine wave through my rig and check each path with an oscilloscope to see if they match up. Something tells me they wont...
totally depends if your guitar processor is routed in series or a more complex way... if in series you can sometimes do it on the processor itself (if it allows for this) or you can use a transformer (output TX / Interfacer / Buzzkill - on our website) to invert one side (if in mono.) ... Basically - it really depends. Email me with your signal chain - info@goodwoodaudio.com and I'll take a look.
![How To Use Two Guitar Amps Together [Connections, Phase, Polarity & Why Analog Dry-Through Matters]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LH9FO1EMIPQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I've just gone full stereo for the first time using a DSM Humboldt simplifier. Using the Simplifier's headphone output it sounds INCREDIBLE... I've noticed through a PA that it it sounded really thin... not what it was like through headphone output.
There are a few other variables switching from headphones to a PA. Headphones (especially if they are in-ears) will inherently have more low end and EQ will sound different right off the bat... Then you have the sound engineer and his/her take on what your guitar 'should' sound like etc. If you think all of that has been accounted for, I'd get in touch with Humbolt and see what they have to say. I can understand how frustrating this would be though... from getting an amazing sound and ready to show it off live and it's far from what you know it should be...
I suspect I've got that issue here. Now I know how to fix it. Thanks for the video guy!
Another great and helpful video! Thank you!
Thanks!
I'm running 2 amps currently, Carvin X50b with 4x12 cab and a Marshall jcm800 4010 combo and want to actually add my Peavey stereo chorus 212 and Peavey Bandit 112. I just got the 2 amps in phase using a Earthquaker Swissthings pedal (such a great pedal). But now I'm out of output options for the other 2 amps. Yeah I know it's overkill, but it sounds so good, different equipment filling the frequency spectrum!
ya nice. Sounds like you've got it dialed and are just needing to fix this last piece of the puzzle. If those other two amps are out of phase with the first two (that are now in phase due to the swiss things) there are pieces of gear out there to help, but if they are all in phase - you're good (until you get a ground loop assuming you play different venues with this exact setup).
@@GoodwoodAudio no it all sits at home lol. I love the frequency spread and the big sound. I'm really wanting to incorporate the Peavey stereo chorus 212 though, just might have issues, maybe use one of the 2 outputs on the MXR stereo chorus?
It has a mono and stereo out, wondering if I will get lucky and it'll work or just mess it up and go out of phase on the setup?
I run the whole system off an ART power conditioner, all amps and the pedal board power along with a ART sge processor in the effects loop on the Carvin.
@@charlesb7831 very curious how it will all come together! Hoping for the best. Let me know if you remember!
Awesome video man! It helped me a lot! But I have one question:
I run 2 stereo outputs from my pedalboard (one dry and one wet). If I use a pedal inverting the polarity of only 1 of my 2 outputs directly to the input of my amp (I have 2 combo amps and I dont want to reverse the wires of the speakers inside) The inverted polarity should work just fine without blowing my amp? Thank you very much!
correct! If you invert polarity on your pedalboard and send to your amp, you'll be all good!
What an awesome explanation! Thank you man. I just got a question in my mind. Suppose you run a Vox ac 30 and a fender deluxe reverb. They are out of phase so you fix it with a transformer at then of the chain (after the amps in a modeler). The case is fixed now. However, I was wondering if any other pedals like an overdrive in mono or a reverb in stereo can make the amps sound out of phase again.
overdrives often invert, but if they are in mono this isn't an issue as it will affect both amps the same. The issue is usually more if you're running parallel effects...phase can become an issue there. So generally (95% of the time) if you flip the polarity on one 'amp' you're good to go!
A word of warning. Most tube amps change phase with channel switching. This can be a pain if you're using a di for reamping or using more than one amp and switching just one.
very good feedback! I've never used channel switching as my amps are usually way off in an iso booth. Thanks for commenting!
Hi. For starters, great video! I've watched several of your videos in the past looking for answers to other issues and they usually leaves me with more answers than questions. A rare trait these days.
Guess I'm a bit late to the party but I have had issues with my home/recording rig for years now which I suspect is related to phase and/or current leakage. Guitar > pedalboard > Yamaha THR 10C. I live in a flat so never use the onboard speakers, only headphones. The issues (soggy, muddy grainy tone with zero high freq. integrity, fluctuations in stereo spread and volume) seem to follow no pattern at least I can identify. Despite having no details - do you recon there's any possibility of phase issues in this sort of rig?
Any reply would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Hey Ben. Thanks for checking them out. The main line that concerns me / makes this harder is 'Seems to follow no pattern'. If it's hard to replicate it makes it infinitely harder to troubleshoot. With that being said, I would probably start with guitar - 1 stereo pedal - Yamaha... See if the issue shows up. If not, add in one more pedal (mono or stereo), repeat... keep adding one pedal at a time. If you can narrow it down to one pedal (some pedals invert only when ON, not in bypass mode). So you could see if it's pedal related this way. If it's an issue with the yamaha, I would have a crack at replacing that with another equivalent (maybe an amp sim/cab?) OR a different amp entirely. Generally I start with the simplest rig possible and add complexity while testing along the way.
I have a fender blues deluxe and Vox ac30 in stereo and using the underfacer, I have the tx and 180 button pushed in. I’m getting bottom end but it seems as most of the sound is coming from the fender amp and not the vox.
if you unplug fender, does vox 'get louder' ?
I’m trying to run a UA ruby and a ACS1 as a stereo rig together, they sound good I think, but I wanna know in the case I realize they are out of phase, can my Radial Pro D2 fix that? Or even the Walrus Canvas Stereo? Or would I need to by something like the Output?
Also do you think these two amp phases are out of phase? They don’t sound thin or anything but I’m worried now lol
your radial won't be able to fix it because it doesn't have a phase button on it...just pad and ground lift. The Canvas could though! It has phase. I actually don't know 100% if they are out of phase or not... we recently did a video on the ACS1 and Ruby (among others) and I don't remember having to change anything phase related... so I think you're good, but not 100%!
Does it true if the hx stomp product with dual amp streo set up will not producing any phase issue ? i’ve been told like that, can anyone confirm this ?
If I'm splitting my signal immediately after my guitar, and one line goes through pedals to "amp A", but the other line goes directly to "amp B" through NO pedals... could there still be phase issues?
Definitely. I'd say you're at a much higher risk of phase issues this way as overdrives / fuzz will often invert phase. This means even if your amps are normally in phase, running them this way could mean you're in phase when no drives are on and back out of phase when certain drive pedals are engaged. It's hard to predict which pedals will invert unless you already know how they behave or try it out yourself.
Is it possible to have certain frequencies that still cause phase issues even if the two amps are in phase, particularly with high gain tones? Im running a dual amp setup, one real amp and one digital model on an hx stomp. Both are going into the stomp to use impulse responses. Im able to flip the phase in the hx stomp. If i check by having both run up the center you can still hear what seems to be phase issues. Then when you pan hard left and right it sounds good but still sounds like it maybe slightly out of phase.
what is more likely is they are not perfectly 180 degrees out... which is also VERY common... but if something is 90degrees out as an example... flipping phase / inverting polarity isn't going to fix anything. You'll still be 90degrees out of phase. With standard guitar gear, the 'fix' for this is not easy. you'd need to be able shift the phase by 90degrees rather than flip polarity by 180 with a transformer or an opamp.
@@GoodwoodAudio makes sense. Thanks for the reply.
I am running dream and ruby in stereo, and I use goodwood audio output tx so I can invert the phase! But I am wondering if I can use dream and ruby before big sky and output tx
Do I need to put dream and ruby right before output tx to correct the phase? Or can I just put dream and ruby before modulation and invert the phase at the end of the chain (tx)?
youd want to invert right before or right after dream and ruby.
@@GoodwoodAudio thank you!! One more question here. I am running dream and ruby together into wet effects (bigsky, timeline)
I heard somewhere that if I invert the phase with diso at the very end of the chain, the sound will get worse than inverting the phase before wet effects!
So is it best for me to invert the phase before wet effects if I am running dream and ruby into wet effects? And in the second scenario, if I put wet effects before dream and ruby, is it better to invert the phase at the very end of the chain or at the very first input?
Thank you!!
🤘👍🏿
What about if the out of phase is 90 degrees?
that's what we call a bad day.
Aww, man... this is what I was wondering about too. More specifically, if it is anything other that 180 degrees out of phase. I am thinking I could run a sine wave through my rig and check each path with an oscilloscope to see if they match up. Something tells me they wont...
if you can do that test - i would strongly recommend it!
@@danielmiller2886
Save Your Face: Stay In Phase!
exactly
Who you callin' honky?
haha. well played.
How can I fix this if it's my guitar processor that sounds out of phase?
totally depends if your guitar processor is routed in series or a more complex way... if in series you can sometimes do it on the processor itself (if it allows for this) or you can use a transformer (output TX / Interfacer / Buzzkill - on our website) to invert one side (if in mono.) ... Basically - it really depends. Email me with your signal chain - info@goodwoodaudio.com and I'll take a look.