'The Devil's Chord' won't work for everyone - Doctor Who review
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2024
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A playlist of videos covering the issues with the BBC and transphobic reporting: ruclips.net/p/PLmWFOeT2jEofVIDW9X3OL7GqWuX3Dxopu
Ok so people are throwing examples of Doctor Who forth wall breaks at me left and right that I’d forgotten or didn’t know about, you don’t have to provide anymore.
I think the reason this one (specifically the “nondiagetic” line) hit me different in a bad way was that in my mind there’s a difference between acknowledging the presence of an audience (as in Heaven Sent and Before the Flood) and acknowledging the artifice of a TV show. While they’re both forth wall breaks, there’s a difference between addressing the camera with a little wink for a moment, and suddenly going “Hey, can we stop filming for a minute?” and walking off set, and the nondiagetic line is closer to that latter for me and thus feels more disruptive. I dunno if I’m the only one who makes a distinction like that, but here we are.
That makes sense for sure. Just like you said in the review, sometimes what may or may not work for an individual is kinda arbitrary, and it just didn’t work for you.
I think the presence of an audience reads to me more as a lean than a full on break, so that makes perfect sense.
If you want to head-canon away the fourth wall breakage of that line, you could say the Doctor (or perhaps just this Doctor) has their own personal imaginary soundtrack running in their head, and calls it non-diegetic because nobody else (in their universe, at least) can hear it.
DoctorWho’s Carole Ann Ford hints at Susan’s return after The Devil’s Chord from Radio Times
I'm in agreement, it's much more media savvy, although I love it for that exact reason, I hope they do something cunning with it
I definitely agree with you, when I threw my example into the comments It didn't come from a place of disagreement with your point about why you didn't like them in this episode
Maybe because I’m British, I saw this as tapping into the tradition of ‘pantomime’ rather than drag.
I was saying the same with my friends when I saw this. I kinda wonder if Maestro might have worked better in a Christmas episode?
The rest of Toymaker's children have a very hard act to follow.
They all do including Jinx Monsoon. Neil Patrick Harris's performance was a GOAT performance
Maybe one of his children is “The Emo” and they speak in a depressed monotone for forty minutes.
@@CrankyGrandma If I was in charge I'd make one of them "The One Who Wokes" just to see this usual suspects have rage embolisms
@@Faction.Paradox that would be so hilarious 😂😂😂
I guess now we know for whom he was making all those toys.
Headcannon: The Maestro introduced the Toymaker to the Spice Girls.
I DIDNT KNOW I NEEDED BABY, TODDLER AND TEEN MAESTRO WITH THEIR DADDY BUT NOW I WANT ALL THE CUTE SLICE OF LIFE FICS
Headcannon accepted
I kinda think the Doctor was getting ready to pull out the psychic paper but Ruby found a non-psychic paper solution before he had a chance 😂
I felt so too, but wished there was some acknowledgement...like him giving an amused smile and saying "...Or we could do it that way!" while no longer reaching for his psychic paper. Even for those who didn't know about the psychic paper specifically, it would indicate that the Doctor had other ways and that Ruby was just faster to take control of the situation (which was a moment I liked because I still feel I don't know her personality enough). It would also mean that they could use the psychic paper later and new viewers wouldn't be going "Wait, if they had that then why did they go to that bother in the earlier episode??"
I think the musical number was the lingering effects of Maestro being there. Like the state of play at the end of the giggle.
That's the rationale I'm going with too.
It is! In fact according to Benjamin Cook, in the script of the episode it makes it clear that it is an aftershock of Maestro's meddling with music flooding back in which causes the entire building to erupt into song and dance, and I presume it is why the stripes on Abbey Road light up when the Doctor and Ruby dance back to the TARDIS. And this makes sense since Maestro clearly operates under similar rules to the Toymaker.
It's come out since airing that it actually specifies in the script stage directions that's EXACTLY what it is - or rather it's a result of the unreality of the Maestro's influence breaking down and music flooding back into the world.
Unfortunately, they forgot to have any of the characters say that or have it indicated in any way on screen so you have to "decide" that for yourself. Which is just bad writing IMO.
I think it would also have helped if the musical number actually sounded like a 60s song - but instead it sounded like a song from a modern musical set in the 50s.
@@literaltruth I think it's implied in the episode anyway so I don't think it needs to be spelled out.
@@friendlyotaku9525If people are asking why it happened, implying an answer is not giving an answer.
"The Lost Chord" didn't fully summon Maestro I think. They showed up in 1925, which was the same year The Toymaker set The Giggle on the first television. I assume when the Doctor cast the salt at the edge of the universe in Wild Blue Yonder, it was that same year which summoned all these gods.
Oh. I missed that. That’s really a great catch.
The ruby playing her own theme on the piano rooftop scene and pure silent scene so maestro wouldn’t detect them was imo top top tier I loved them two moments in particular
It just felt like it was in the wrong point in the season, it should be mid season imo and would explain the “you always know” randomness and the skip to the June July sentence (it felt very like they threw it in earlier than intended to fit with Eurovision night)
Also the “I thought that was non-diegetic” did give me a giggle
I wonder if it would've been better if Rogue and The Devil's Chord (which were filmed in the same block) were swapped around with Rogue being Episode 2 and The Devil's Chord being Episode 6, this would make it so the "June" reference makes a bit more sense since Episode 6 airs on June 8th.
It gave you a Giggle?! 😳
In fact, the fact this is 6 months into her travels, she's familiar enough with the Dr. to know "You never run away!" and the Maestro warning "The One Who Waits is nearly here"
all points to this episode originally being later in the season, and being moved to here.
@@HOTD108_ oh… is my name now Donna cos I might now be a goner
I think the whole point of the maestro was that they didn't allow you a moment to breathe, and that's where the doctor's fear came from. He wasn't given a moment to think, and the ones he had were only seconds. It heightened the threat of the maestro imo.
I agree
My 12 year old was listening to this just now on our way to swim team practice. He just asked if Miss Frizzle was a Time Lord and if the Magic School Bus was a TARDIS. I told him that would explain so much.
It's a long standing theory at this point.
@@CouncilofGeeks I will let him know he is in good company. It had never occurred to me.
"This is not for me. But I'm glad it exists" is such a healthy attitude to have for most art (hateful propaganda excepted), regardless of medium. So thank you for saying it.
i was trained as a classical pianist growing up and i actually loved this episode lol. the music notes are the "reversing the polarity of the neutron flow" thing of the episode. the overall theme of the episode of music as a form of human expression resonated really deeply with me. maybe the fact i didn't know anything about the beatles helped too lol
The Devil's Chord is less burlesque than it is pantomime, which makes Maestro's character more understandable. They are also personifying a loud, insatiable hunger, which is "always turned up to eleven". I really didn't find this too OTT. In this episode, they're a 'dame' rather than a drag queen, and evil dames are usually driven by one or two dark motivations.
I think that with 'the Lost Chord', we can step away from music theory and look into musical mythology instead. I think it goes back to Jimmy Durante and his song 'The Guy who Found the Lost Chord' and the Moody Blues made a concept album 'In Search of the Lost Chord'. The Whoniverse has become open to gods and fairies, so the whole realm of imagination has access now.
Yeah I got 'pantomime dame crossed with a wicked witch' from it. It still doesn't change the fact that it's a very 'permanently turned up to 11' performance, and that is potentially tiresome, but it does give it more of an reasoning for being the way it was.
Regardless, it was a horrible performance, and the bad makeup didn't help. Interesting concept wasted on someone who is clearly not an actor.
The Doctor and Rubys reaction to the bad music is everything to me.
Thing is the finale song 'There's always a twist' had the same effect on me, it wasn't much better than the 'bad' songs it was meant to be in contrast to, and it made me cringe even more.
@@MrDiddyDeeTHANK YOU, IT WAS SO BAD 😩
Yet here I am as a Non Binary person who felt Maestro was the best villain since Missy
I loved Maestro soooo much. I thought Jinx ate the scenery and was so delightfully over the top! I loved their performance and how wonderfully campy they were! Do I get Vera's critique? Yes. Did I care? No! I was having way to much fun.
I agree with both of you.
They are a very love it or hate it, villain
Maestro is my new favourite baddie.
@@crackpotjones I neither loved nor hated Maestro. Maestro was... fine.
They have briefly featured the psychic paper in The Church on Ruby Road when the Doctor shows it to Ruby at the club saying "Health and Safety, gin and tonic division".
That's right, I forgot about that. Well I still like that they're using it sparingly.
I don't think this would have worked if it wasn't at 11 the whole time. I really enjoyed this episode.
Same!
agreed
Didn't think i was going to like it beforehand, but thought it was the best episode so far (including the specials) and the maestro was pure gold as a doctor who villain. The dance number at the end threw me off though
Also agree. That (for me) was part of the enjoyment; the high energy pantomime-esque performance. As Jinkx mentioned in Unleashed, it made the villain seem unpredictable and that's what makes them dangerous. I'm imagining if it were _less_ it would come off as naff and boring.
So, the Doctor has broken the fourth wall a few times on television in the past, unambiguously. The first big one is in Part 7 of The Dalek's Masterplan, "The Feast of Steven", which was the first Doctor Who Christmas episode, and which ends with William Hartnell literally looking into the camera, raising a toast and saying "And a happy Christmas to all of you at home!". The episode is lost, in fact it's the only episode where every known copy was definitely destroyed, so not having seen it is a near-universal state, now. The other big one was Tom Baker in the Invasion of Time, failing to use the sonic screwdriver to open a big wooden door, looking directly into the camera, something Tom did that wasn't scripted, and saying "Even the Sonic Screwdriver won't get me out of this one", when he's alone in the room. It's pretty definite. There are a lot of other arguable ones, but those two are clear cut.
Another big one for me is Capaldi’s speech about the Bootstrap Paradox where he’s pretty directly talking to the audience.
I didn’t know about those classic who ones though, I like learning about those though! Thank you.
I’m sure Sylvester McCoy broke the 4th wall at least once too.
@@CarysCantDance Remembrance of the Daleks Part 3, he delivers the last line of the cliffhanger direct to camera.
@@gamer3ed484 I've seen people argue he's talking to Clara off camera or something but I think you're right.
@@heatherkamp114Thank you!
also if it doesn't lead to something, I'm headcanonising the recognition of the diegetic music as The Doctor loving adventuring so much that they create music in their own head
Clara does have a line in Kill the Moon where she says "do you hear music when you say stuff like that" which has implied to me that the Doctor, or at least 12, definitely hears their theme when they're being heroic lol
I loved "my dog frank" - banger of a tune
*Fred (I loved it too though, even memorised all the lyrics 🤣)
See if it's on spotify
The real Paul has written a few songs about his dogs. 'Martha my dear', about his Old English Sheepdog; 'Jet' inspired by a black Labrador puppy; and an unreleased improv studio jam known as 'There you go, Eddie', where Paul namechecks not only one of his own dogs, but also John's and Ringo's pets too.
@@mylefteye4180 I don't think it will be yet; the episode's soundtrack hasn't released yet
Honestly, The Beatles were so irreverent I could totally see them having come up with a tune like that, half for the pure fun of it and half to be ironic. 😏
I'm a musician and the only thing about the episode that really bugged me in that respect is that they perpetuated the myth that the tritone (the Devil's chord) was banned by the church. That never happened. I was a bit disappointed that the Maestro was banished by a simple C major triad. I wanted it to be something more complex, but your explanation makes a lot of sense. Btw, there is no mythic lost chord, that was an invention of the DW writers. And there really couldn't be one that could be played on a modern, western instrument. Every conceivable combination of those 12 notes has been played many, many times.
Doesn't 'The End' finish on a C chord, thus enabling the programme to tread around copyright issues should the E major that ends 'A Day In The Life' been deemed too close???
++++
10/10 agreed as someone with 1.5 music degrees!
About the banishing chord - it was actually the last chord from A Day In The Life. That's the only reason that The Beatles were in it, I think.
Also, The Doctor and Ruby's clothes were not really strictly period correct - they were from a few years later in the 1960s, but I guess that they served as a good shorthand for the period.
The final chord in "A Day In The Life" was actually an E major, as opposed to the C major 9th that was used in the episode. But I can definitely see it being a nod to the former given the way it was played
@@TheDragonHistorian I wondered if they played the chord in a different key to avoid any risk of copyright infringement.
I don't think such a small difference really matters, considering the clothes cam from the TARDIS.
@@ftumschk It's possible--it could also be a reference to the opening chord of "A Hard Day's Night," since that was an F major 9th
Yeah. They had rights issues to work around with when writing the episode.
I didnt see Maestro's energy as 11 the whole time. I saw her singing, playing piano and investigating during the silence as her regular energy level, like an 8. But when she growled or got frustrated and yelled, or got angry that she couldn't get the music from Ruby, that was a higher energy for me (11).
another note i have on the beatles is that when john and paul were at the piano, they were looking at the notes as if they could read it.
john never learned to read sheet music and paul didnt learn until the 90’s
Yes, that was a slight problem in the plot but ho hum, perhaps they could have got George Martin to solve it. Or wheeled in Mozart or something at the end or some other super genius from the 18th or 19th. Or Reg Dwight ?
Maybe that was insinuated... they played made their own chords.
The notes weren't going up and down with the pitches the Doctor played, so they weren't acting like sheet music notes. Whether the Beatles could read sheet music is thus irrelevant. The notes seem to embody the music in some more primal way.
@@CritterKeeper01 thank you
I'd love to see them bring Susan back as a homicidally insane time lady. She waited, and waited, and her grandfather never returned. Abandoned in a post war hellhole, her husband dead from radiation poisoning. They bring her back as an old woman, pretending to he so happy to see her grandfather again, and when it reveals that she's gone full villian they have her regenerate, cause some chaos, and then a really great redemption arc. At the end, she tasks herself with finding all the time lords that escaped the destruction of gallifrey (because we're retconning that bullshit), and rebuilding gallifreyan society in a more harmonious, less domineering way.
That might be what they meant by the one who waits is almost here
@@TakeAchance365 That's why I thought it, actually. A Susan reference plus the one who waits? God I hope I'm right. I mean, the odds are basically less than zero, but it would be So. Freaking. Good
@@codyofathens3397 I’m wondering what if Susan took on the name the valyard
@@TakeAchance365.... The Valeyard is The Doctor... Unless you are implying she becomes a second Valeyard... which would be one hell of a mess because most new fans know nothing about the original valeyard to begin with...
@@parrot998 I guess that would be a little recon but still possible I mean, it’s just a name but it makes me wonder I wonder if we will ever see the valyard in any form because it would interesting for the doctor to go up against
I think the Susan stuff is Checkov's Susan. In space babies, Ruby requests 2150 (the year Susan was dropped off) before adding 6
Re: 4th wall breaks - Peter Capaldi did it LOADS. The opening of before the flood plus in Heaven Sent, he looks directly at the camera while delivering the line "I love an audience". The 4th Doctor does it a fair bit, there's a moment where he looks at the camera and says "Even the sonic screwdriger won't get me out of this one", and the first doctor famously says "and a merry Christmas to all of you watching at home" at the end of the Feast of Stephen
Absolutely agree. Maybe Susan is the one who waits?
@@benjaminwilson2945 Now that would be cool
@@barryhomeowner9293 Also there is the detail of the recurring actress in the past few episodes literally being called "Susan Twist".
@@benjaminwilson2945 Oooooh, I like this! Susan has indeed been waiting for a long time!
@@benjaminwilson2945yeah I’m fairly certain now that RTD cast her to cheekily hint that the twist of the season is that the One Who Waits is Susan.
Ruby's 'you always know' either implies offscreen adventures or makes the episodes out of order imo.
There has been a time jump since Space Babies. The Doctor asks Ruby where her "present" is now and she says June/July, so they've been adventuring for 6 months
Another comment here states that this episode was filmed in the same block with episode 6, which will air in June. They wondered if the episode order had been swapped.
I always assume they go on off screen adventures as Donna and Amy mentioned them at nearly each episode start if it was a stand alone.
The episodes are basically only when something eventful happens
I think that this episode wasn't written to be the second episode; I suspect that someone at either the BBC or Disney really wanted the episode to be the second episode and released it alongside the first episode while all others are released weekly because there were a lot of people online really looking forward to Jinx being in Doctor Who and thought giving them that as soon as possible would bring them on board for the whole season. And because the episode doesn't have a lot of in terms of connection to other episodes they largely got away with doing that.
@@Countgreenhorn They could also make better use of the whole Beatles/Abbey Road aspect in the initial marketing before the season started. Having it in the premiere episodes rather than in the regular run down the line.
4:58 "It's like a song, now I can hold a note for a long time, actually I can hold a note forever. But eventually that's just noise. It's the change we're listening for. The note coming after and the one after that, that's what makes it music." - Lorne, Angel season 2
The funniest thing about The Beatles protrayals is that John didn't even wear circular glasses at that period! Although I guess it's excusable since time has been altered at that point.
I guess it also helps that this wasn't a Beatles documentary ;)
They also portrayed Cilla Black as recording at the same time as The Beatles, when she didn’t record at Abbey Road until 1963, a year after The Beatles first recorded there.
Edit: I made a mistake. As someone pointed out, The Beatles did record their debut at Abbey Road in 1963 and that’s when the episode was set. I know that Cilla wasn’t in the studio at the time though.
I've said this elsewhere but in brief I think this was deliberate. John wore Buddy Holly-style glasses around this time, because he admired Holly. In this reality, the idea of "cool" in relation to popular music doesn't really exist. If John has even heard of Buddy Holly in this reality, does he have any reason to admire him? Does he have any reason not to wear his deeply uncool granny glasses? I'm guessing that was the point.
his eyesight got worse from all the crying at night because of music being missing from his soul
@@CarysCantDance they said 1963 in the episode so maybe the beetles' date was wrong
I assumed to summon the Maestro you had to have a huge desire for music.
You had to have both the talent to play but for it to lead nowhere which is what would summon the Harbinger to you and it's playing that chord to the Harbinger which is the Summon them.
Also at their core the Beatles were just 4 lads from Liverpool so I'd rather them have a true liverpudlian accent rather than look like John and Paul.
Yeah that was my impression as well - The lost chord had to come out of _desire_ as well as action.
I reckon I could summon The Maestro with a big wedge of chocolate cake
@@Stephen-Fox Perhaps this was just the first time it happened after the Toymaker came into the word, bringing Maestro along (since both first appearances were in 1925).
I assume The Maestro wasn't summoned previously because of 14 and the salt from WBY.
the salt the Doctor laid down broke down the barriers so that entities like the Goblins and Maestro could enter the prime universe.
It might also be because of Harbinger; he's the prelude to Maestro. You need to have that love for music, without the real break to express it properly. All that emotion, built up in you, is the essence of music. Just like The Doctor says before almost banishing Maestro. And I believe that's what a good teacher is, someone who loves their field and wants to inspire it in others, but never got that lucky break to prove themselves.
You are correct. It's stated in The Giggle that it was the salt that broke the Toymaker free and that his legions followed him.
@@diamondunicorn1983 Trapping the Toymaker may have opened the door.
@@carrastealth the Toymaker says himself that the barriers were down that allowed him to enter.
I get the feeling this episode was mostly written because Eurovision aired immediately after, with the musical number and the importance of music on humanity.
Not for me, but not too bad.
The musical number at the end feels like they were originally planning to have the Beatles’ Twist and Shout as their closure. I even layered over the song on a clean audio version of the scene it works almost perfectly.
So the song we got is likely their filler song they had in case BBC didn’t want to pay the Beatles.
Do you have that posted anywhere? Would like to see it
@@Arakus99 search #doctorwho on my timeline should bring it right up.
Haha the part where you spoke about pink floyd is hilariously accurate
I've got a mouse
And he hasn't got a house
I don't know why I call him Gerald
He's getting rather old but he's a good mouse
It's practically the same song.
One thing I wish someone would do with fourth-wall breaking as a concept is have a character become aware of the fourth wall and immediately have a full-on existential crisis. I mean, imagine how you'd react to learning that not only are your friends and loved ones not real, but that their continued existence, as well as yours, depends on how impressed an unseen audience is with you specifically as a person. I'm pretty sure I'd crack under that kind of pressure.
You should read Grant Morrison’s run on Animal Man.
@@CouncilofGeeks You're actually the second person to recommend that to me now, so clearly I need to check it out. I'll get on it ASAP.
Also Danganronpa V3
With the sudden jump from Christmas 2023 to June 2024 in 1 episode with the “you always know” line from Ruby makes me think they have reshuffled the order of this season’s episodes, it would explain why Ruby got the TARDIS key in Space Babies so quickly, so they CAN shuffle the episode order around and still have it work.
To me the Devils Chord feels like it was probably gonna be episode 6 or 7 given the “June 2024” line as they typically like to lean into real time with the in universe timelines
Mrs. Flood started the fourth wall thing in the Christmas special. I think it's gonna be a thing through the whole series leading up to some sort of mystery-box-whatever.
yeah im thinking it will be related to the toymaker or the thing from WBY in some way. im expecting more of it, and tbh given what we got so far im loving it.
Maybe Mrs. Flood is Susan?
Thank you for introducing me to the brilliance that is Bike by Pink Floyd. Had a laugh showing it to my grandma.
“I don’t know why, I named him Gerald.”
Maestro is my favorite villain we've had in a long time.
Hi! Music person here. Tritones (helpfully nicknamed the Devil's Interval or the Devil's chord) were never a "lost" chord. Pretty sure that stems from a fun little historical misconception that it was banned by the Church back in ye olden days thanks to its ~spooky~ dissonance. Ironically, it was used pretty frequently throughout history, from medieval Roman Catholic compositions relating to the crucification, to Mozart's Fidelo opera, and hell, Stravinsky LOVED tritones. And we can't forget jazz! Tritones are one of the most important harmonic devices in jazz.
Anyways, all that to say the thought of it being used for the first time in the 1920s is patently absurd. It can be waved off as the Maestro using this *particular* moment of it being played, combined with the composer's dissatisfaction/ "music locked in his heart" to climb through. It got an eye roll and a chuckle from me, and I was willing to forgive it because of how much the diegetic/non-diegetic music joke made me laugh.
The Actress Susan Twist was also in this episode as the Tea Lady in the cafe, my theory is the song "There's always a Twist at the end" is a hint at her name and her showing up by the end of the series
And her name appears in the credits after the song
This isn't the first time The Doctor has been aware of the credits, either. Missy and Twelve both show awareness. Remember when Missy was pretending to be The Doctor and is calling herself "Doctor Who" to get under his skin? Missy isn't making an in-universe joke. People mistaking his name for Doctor Who is not an in-universe problem encountered all the time, so it's not a joke about something that happens to him in-universe. He wasn't even there when WOTAN did that, so he can't be annoyed by it. Missy is making a joke about the credits of the Classic Who era. Which means both Missy and 12 know about the credits problem.
Notice how the year the lost chord is found is the same year that the toymaker shows up to sell stuccie bill and starts the giggle.
Which means the world was already in the state of play when the lost chord was used and that is what brings maestro into existence it's only the coincidence of it being played while under the state of play that births the maestro, so kids randomly banging keys wouldn't summon them.
God the CAMP and FUN that this new era of doctor who has makes me so happy. The dance number was amazing. I love when things are just stupid and campy, and I hope Davies keeps this energy up!
same
I suspect this episode was meant to air later in the season and got pulled forward, possibly because of Eurovision, maybe just because it had a big guest star, but there's a few bits that feel like they'd fit better later. Ruby saying the Doctor never hides and always knows feels like we jumped forward
The episode confirms we jumped forward. Space Babies takes place immediately after Church on Ruby Road so when the Doctor takes Ruby home at the end of the episode it is still Christmas. But midway through the Devil's Chord when the Doctor takes Ruby back to the present they mention that it is June in Ruby's current time. So there's been a 6 month timeskip.
This is exactly my though, the plot progressing ( "You always Know???" ), the weird time jump to June. It's just feels like there is something we missing and I don't know if they did it deliberately or not.
Spoilers if you dont want recording notes
I just had a look at the episodes order of filming and space babies was block 3, devil's chord was block 4 and the Christmas episode was block 2
@@Venemofthe888 that always happens, they always film out of order, nothing new
@@lukesavage3067 true but perhaps they filmed them with a order in mind but could have changed during production
I suspect it's a case of RTD's theme of superstitions and legends coming into reality; playing the chord alone isn't enough, but because that guy at the start talked about the Devil's Chord summoning the Devil, combined with playing it, with the story in the air, is what summoned the Maestro.
That's a brilliant explanation, fits perfectly, I'll take it. TY
This is such a drag cliché but: Jinx was hurt by the edit.
In the behind the scenes (which I know Vera doesn’t watch) Jinx talks about how she gave a different delivery in every take. If that’s true then it’s possible that the editors only chose the line deliveries that were at “11” each time.
I wish this episode was a 2-parter and we had more time to see Maestro’s calmer moments
If that's true then I have a world of sympathy for Jinx because that means the makers didn't want nuance for the character regardless of what the performance options were.
Vera's point still fits though. The editors likely chose the "11!" line reads because they fit the very Drag Race stunt casting they wanted Jinkx for in the first place.
Now having said that, I think Jinkx absolutely ate and left no crumbs, 10/10
That makes so much more sense, I’ve seen Jinkx be so good with having levels in their acting. It’s part of why they’re one of my favorite drag performers (and I typically prefer Boulet over RuPaul).
While I generally like Jinkx, the playing of musical instruments in this made me cringe. I used to play violin and piano. The faux violin playing was the most blasphemous. I freakin' hated the Doctor breaking the fourth wall. At least for now. If we get an explanation for it, I reserve the right to change my mind
Considering that the Maestro is linked to the Toymaker, I would guess the lost chord summoning them wouldn't work until after the Toymaker was already here. And the cold open takes place the same year that the Toymaker first appears on Earth in the Giggle.
The 12th doctor broke the fourth wall a few times, for example, when he looks at the camera and says, "im nothing without an audience"
Do you remember what episode that was? I remember the opening to Before the Flood having a direct to camera bit, but that felt more like an odd stylistic choice than anything else.
@@CouncilofGeeks Heaven Sent from memory (before jumping out the window?), but I think Peter Capaldi had a the moments of fourth wall breaking. I'd say the key distinction is Peter did it alone not with other companions. Listen also had the lecture at the beginning.
@@Logicalleaping 12 broke the fourth wall in front of Clara in "Before the flood".
Came to the comments just for this. In Deep breath, 12 looks directly at the camera at the end. Also, the boostrap paradox monologue is given seemingly to us and ends with him looking directly at the camera saying "Google it."
@@CouncilofGeeks ruclips.net/video/YZkStaXP8Hs/видео.html I just finished watching this video from DoccyWhoTime. There are a lot more examples of direct and indirect 4th wall breaks throughout the history of the show. It's very interesting!
My favourite 4th wall break theory is that this is gonna be a running theme in that this season is being watched through the memory of a character from the end of the season
Their is a TV theme going on plenty of forth wall but someone explained all the fourth wall breaking rules established in early who and so far the past few episodes are doing so.
The song Theres always a twist at the end is sung in the same tones as the giggle, hinting at there are still something of the gods if not Maestro still affecting them
Also Henry Arbinger made an appearance during the song.
@@CarysCantDance Henry Arbinger has basically been confirmed to appear in the next series due to filming location leaks.
yeah i thought it was pretty obvious myself. its like when Gatwa's doctor split the tardis after the toymaker was beaten, there was lingering energy left that caused silly stuff to happen, in this case a short musical dance number.
The doctor didn’t say he knew Susan was dead he just said maybe she died he doesn’t know
For silent movie buffs: Jinkx Monsoon as Maestro looks eerily like Emil Jannings as Mephisto in the 1926 version of "Faust", so I immediately got the right diabolical vibes.
To be honest it feels like you have very specific expectations about how those episodes should look. I totally love that we have a lot of fresh air and excitement. I kind of feel like you watch with the eyes of the reviewer - "do I like that" "was that good" etc.. This is just a vibe that I get from you. I'm just happy to go for a wild ride with those episodes and have some fun. I didn't like 60th specials but this is just pure fun.
My gut feeling wants Me to say that Vera is a contrarian sometimes but I know that’s not true. But that’s what it feels like sometimes.
Well naturally the series is litteraly called doctor who review lol
The Susan stuff gives me the vibe of "if my headcanon isn't canon, it's bad".
100% agree on the villain energy level. I like the boiling rage under the surface and when a bad guy goes from calm to enraged within just a few words--and I think that is clearly what they were going for here--but if the baseline is already fully manic all the time, the moments of rage don't pop like they should. It was a fascinating villain that was just missing that edge needed to really put them over the top (in terms of threat level, not in terms of acting).
I *DO* wish they'd stop with the "most powerful enemy they Doctor's ever had to face" promo stuff, though. I think if you label a threat more powerful than anything we've seen before, and then the Doctor rolls up and beats them in a single episode, and then you do that several times...it weakens what it means to be "the most powerful threat we've ever seen."
Tom Baker looked directly at the camera and said things quite a few times and of course there’s the (in?)famous “Merry Christmas to all of you at home” from the first doctor but yeah New Who definitely hasn’t leaned into fourth wall breaking apart from a couple moments with Capaldi
I grew up in a musical family, and while my theory is extremely amateur (I never could get through the theory classes), I think I can lend some thoughts until a real musical theorist joins the comments...
The devil's chord is *just* a tritone. Realistically, the fact that that's what they went for is hilarious because... like... Vivaldi would have summoned the Maestro hundreds of times. He was a big fan of the tritone in his work. If you don't know Vivaldi, it may be worth looking him up. Though a violinist, it's not incorrect to say that the phenomenon of shredding and otherwise particularly fast and technical guitar solos are inspired... at least spiritually... by Vivaldi, who was very similar in the way he played and composed for violin. I lowkey wish Vivaldi would make an appearance in Doctor Who. Would be fascinating to see how they handle the first popular musician believed to have "sold his soul to the devil" to play the violin the way he did.
In other words, your point about the "lost chord"... hundreds, if not thousands, if not millions of musicians would have summoned Maestro so many times they would have rage quit.
I would have to watch the show again for the chord that got rid of the Maestro. I missed it, unfortunately, and its significance. But overall the episode really relied heavily on classical music theory, which... as I'm sure no one will be surprised by... is very white, very Western and, yes, very Christian. There was no acknowledgement of quarter tones or music from China or Japan or the MIddle East or just anywhere on the Asian continent... heck... even Jewish and Muslim music would have thrown a bit of a wrench into the musical underpinnings of this episode. Given Maestro's apparent taste for Western music in particular, it's surprising that their actions ended "the entire world", rather than just... Europe.
I will say... this is the second(? I think? Unless there are more?) time we get the Doctor having this big "I'm gonna defeat the baddy" moment and then failing. Rings of Akhaten is the other one where this was done and it annoyed me then, too. If they didn't want the Doctor to be the one to ultimately defeat the villain, then don't have them get that damn close. I know Moffat did it because he had to make Clara the most specialist most importantist person ever. It feels like Davies did it purely because he realized the Beatles were in the episode and needed to find a way to use at least John and Paul again. But I think it would have gone better if John and Paul had a bigger role in general and the Doctor leaned on their musical genius to do it rather than having them be a deus ex machina at the end. This incarnation of the Doctor actually being a musical genius would have been kind of perfect, TBH, especially considering Peter Capaldi's Doctor having his own musical genius, as well. So that bothered me.
Finally... Bike. Yes. That's absolutely perfect. I thought of Syd Barrett, too, during that section.
I never felt that Clara and the leaf was a 'making Clara special' moment, it was a 'Clara's mum was special' moment, and one of the few bright spots in 7B where Clara actually felt like she had a real life and wasn't just a mystery box incarnate, because who wouldn't think of all those lost days when someone we love dies seemingly way too early. And the untold infinite vs The Doctor's memories is fairly tidy too.
now 7B dug it's own grave with a lot of other stuff, that moment of emotional brilliance should have been balanced by some kind of grave error elsewhere but we don't really get any negatives for Clara till s8.
@@nattieCSH That's fair, but I honestly felt like it undercut the Doctor's speech in that moment. Like it kind of took the wind out of the sails of that whole scene and just fell flat for me in the end. Kinda like this... having the Doctor get that close to the chord then hitting a bum note just makes the moment fall flat for me.
I'm ok with the John and Paul being the ones to defeat the Maestro effectively this is the same ending as the shakespeare code, the unmatched skills of the great artist defeats the Villain. But the shakespeare code was done soooooo much better. Shakespeare was fleshed out he was integral to the episode the beatles felt tagged on they may as well have never been there. Shakespeare was directed by the Doctor they defeat the villains as a team, John and Paul just kinda dandered over to a Piano. I feel like this entire story was crammed into the runtime it need either an additional episode to give everyone the time they need or less subplots. The Shakespeare Code had fairly minor villains who didn't take up much screentime so you could give screen time to Shakespeare, this episode had what the show wants to be a major villain who needed lots of screen time taking it away from the two guys the show wanted to make heroes.
I was wondering if the fourth wall breaks are a Bad Wolf. It's happening so often now that it does feel that way to me. A thing that's in the there to make us go "why does this keep happening?"
I would have preferred more accurate Lennon and McCartney, and they could have done the twist song at the end more like a Beatles song (surely not impossible to mimic even if they couldn't get an actual Beatles song?).
Well technically "Twist and Shout" isn't even a Beatles song (they just did a cover) so that might have been affordable, I'm not sure.
@@CouncilofGeeks Yeah, true. They could have gotten a Beatles cover band to record it, maybe (not sure where that would put it, rights-wise). I think they wanted the "twist at the end" line, but it could have sounded more like the Beatles. It's sad that a show like _Doctor Who,_ as much a British icon as the Beatles, can't get a Beatles song, though. (Maybe it was a writing challenge to write a Beatles episode with no Beatles songs.) Thanks for responding!
Weve missed 6 months of rhem travelling together i think, thats why she tells the Doctor that he always knows!
I'm a musician and a piano teacher and yes I couldnt take it seriously at all unfortunately. There's no way that lost chord has never been played. And when the doctor plays each note of a chord at the end the animated note is not the note being played (although theyre not on manuscript lines, they dont follow pitch). I did love Jinx, but hadnt really acknowledged the lack of quiet until you said. And i totally agree with your analysis on that front
To me everything about this episode felt like a mid season reveal/story. Could be like Firefly where the executives decided to air episodes out of order. Ruby saying "but you never run" feels like a line that could be spoken after maybe 4-5 episodes of the two being together and makes me think that this episode was originally supposed to release/air later, seeing as this season's release schedule will stretch to June.
The 1st doctor also broke the first wall to wish the audience a happy Christmas
"i thought that was non-diagetic" to me implies that the doctor is always imagining the soundtrack in his head
Why am I headcannoning now not playing the lost chord as the reason my old music teacher would seemingly materialise out of nowhere and go off at anyone who played Chopsticks or Heart and Soul?
Vera, it's exhausting that we live in such an over-senitive world that you feel you have to apology so much, just for having an opinion.
Never apologise for having an honest and nuanced take!
I really enjoyed the Maestro as a character but I wish they didn’t shout..so..much, like Missy was crazy but she reigned it in sometimes at least
4th wall breaks -
1. So far we have seen that the Maestro and their kin like the Toymaster can break the fourth wall.
2. We were told by the Maestro that they were originally trapped by a Time based kin of theirs.
3. The Doctor is orphan of unknown origin.
4. Ruby is an orphan of unknown origin.
5. The Doctor has somehow survived any number of catastrophes that would likely have destroyed a normal time lord.
6. Ruby has been watched by her neighbor, someone presenting as older human woman who knows what a TARDIS is *and* who can also break the 4th wall.
7. The Doctor specifically breaks the fourth wall only after encountering the reality breaking abilities of the Maestro.
8. Every episode so far has hit the idea of family, of birth and ancestry *hard*, making it a significant part of the dialogue and the central plotline of both the Christmas and Space Baby episodes.
You see where I'm going with this?
The doctor breaking the wall and the dances I just chocked up to the weirdness of the maestro being left around like the hammer with the toymaker
I think that's the point and will probably be addressed later maybe even continue to happen but it bothers me the Doctor doesn't seem to care there's no excitement at learning why it's happening you would have had with Tennant. Even a simple that was amazing! But why did we all just break into a choreographed song and dance routine or simply spell out why based on his current knowledge he thinks it has happened. A lot felt missing in this episode almost like it could have been two episodes John and Paul needed more time, the Chord and it's history needed more time, Millie and Ncuti need more time to grow as a pairing and even the Maestro needed more time to show they were a fleshed out character and not just an end to end ball of chaos.
Speaking as a professional musician, I personally hate whenever plots hinge around finding a "lost" or "magic" chord or melody, for exactly the same reasons that you didn't like that element as well: someone had to have found and played that at many points all across the existence of music.
It's a romantic and whimsical plot device, and there's nothing inherently wrong with that kind of writing, but it sadly only works if you don't know much about music. Like court or medical dramas, they don't work as well if you have good knowledge about those topics irl.
Also, thank you so much for calling out The Idiot's Lantern as a bad episode! I think I've only heard people gush over that episode, so hearing you say it was bad was very validating for me. 😊
I appreciate someone who can acknowledge that something is good in a general sense, but not specifically something they personally like, as opposed to saying “I don’t like it, so it’s bad.”
I call such things “Wolverines” after the comic book character who is famously the best there is at what he does, but what he does isn’t very nice. Probably the biggest Wolverine experience for me was reading the first Game of Thrones novel, and concluding that it was a very well written example of a kind of fantasy story I really don’t like. I could see the general quality of the book was better than most fantasy novels I read, but I really don’t like the “nobles killing each other over who gets to wear the shiny hat” subgenre.
I can see “this is a really good drag performance, of a type of drag performance I don’t like” being similar.
I wondered about that! When the Doctor said the time lords were murdered, he was talking about when the master destroyed Gallifrey? I thought I missed something... I'm gonna have to go back and force myself to re-watch that.
I really like your reviews, you're saying a lot of things I'm feeling but can't put into words!
I had the exact same reaction to that "always" line, I was like "Girl you have barely known him for like 2 days". Then I heard the line that implied there was a six month time skip, and it has me convinced that this was originally an episode planned for later that got pushed up
I think the thing about “the lost chord” works for me at least because the scene where Maestro is summoned is set in the 1920s. Before then it’s less likely that it would’ve been played since experimental music wasn’t really a *thing* until the 1900s. Add to that the idea I’ve seen floating around a lot that it wasn’t only the chord that summoned them, it was the combination of the chord and the composer’s passion and… yeah that tracks for me.
Plus the presence of the Harbinger as well.
The Toymaker's first appearance in "The Giggle" was also in 1925.
@@briangressett902 daaaaaang. That’s a good catch. I never thought about that.
I assumed it was because he played it properly in that specific tune that caused it
There was a lot of experimental music before then. Some crazy interesting stuff too.
I guess, as someone who loves and studied music for most of my life the entire premise regarding the music fell quite flat for me. I imagine it's a similar feeling to when they do a sci-fi thing based on some scientific concept and a trained astrophysicist would say "eh... It's a juvenile understanding of the concept but it's fun I guess!"
The first Doctor broke the fourth wall in the episode "The feast of Steven" by speaking directly to the audience.
The Doctor was always a 4th wall-breaker even in the revival era. I'm confused why Vera is saying this wasn't a thing
@@modmaker7617 Probably because it wasn't a thing. Every single instance, except for "The Feast of Steven" and - in some ways - Capaldi talking about Beethoven's fifth (but I'd not even include that one), are framed in a way where they're not actually definite fourth wall breaks - they never imply that the Doctor is aware of being in a TV show, in the way it's done here. Looking at the camera, although generally avoided, in and of itself is not a fourth wall break to the extent that these are. It's just talking in the direction of the camera. Tom Baker's "Even the sonic screwdriver..." may or may not be construed by the viewer as a 4th wall break. Tom Baker was talking to himself constantly, even when companions were with him - in this case, he was just looking at the camera while doing it. If he'd started *winking* at nothing (except the camera), it would have been definite, because no-one runs around winking at walls or the ground - and his adlib would never have been included in the episode. "The Feast of Steven" and Beethoven's Fifth were both carefully cued - by way of angles, lighting, general direction, acting - to be entirely outside of the fiction itself.
@@thejither I don't really see how the new instances are that different to when it happened in "The feast of Steven".
@@benjaminwilson2945 Again, "The Feast of Steven" very clearly framed it as Hartnell talking to the audience outside the fiction, not the Doctor - he even talks in a tone the First Doctor never uses (and judging from the audio that remains, the rest of the cast are also clearly out of character). It's overtly signaled that it's outside of the fiction that came before it.
@@thejither I see what you are saying but I would say the one of the reasons for the difference in the first doctor's tone is due to wanting to end the episode on an uplifting note for the audience as the episode aired on Christmas.
My god, _fucking thank you!_ I didn’t love Maestro either, not because of Jinx, not because of the performance _given,_ but because of the performance _asked._ I’ve had exactly the same thoughts, including the comparison to the Toymaker and why I liked him but not them, since I’ve seen this. But absolutely everyone else I’ve seen has been talking about how they’re an “instant classic villain” and up there as one of the best, and I’m just sitting here going “…….really?”. Was starting to think I was alone in that.
I think that Susan is alive. In fact, I think that Susan Mrs Flood is Susan.
He left Susan in a post Dalek apocalyspse because of love.
Though after watching all this Disney IDK nothin no more.
As a nonbinary person I agree with you so much. I had to stop watching the episode because I felt so overwhelmed (I’m autistic so it was also sensory related somewhat), to the point where the character almost felt like a caricature or one of those old Disney villains that were just drag queens/queer people. Like no hate. I think Maestro was definitely done wrong by the editors, because if there were calmer moments I’m sure I would have connected with them so much. It’s just frustrating that enby characters are never shown as capable of having different sides or emotions. Yeah. Sorry for the comment rant.
As another autistic enby person, the sensory overwhelm was real for me too.
@@NicoleM_radiantbaby Same Here, also with Autistic.
I think I can head canon the non diegetic line as not a 4th wall break. I can imagine this Doctor having music playing in his head all the time or at least in the intense moments.
I get why he'd give Ruby the key so quickly. This Doctor is much friendlier than ever before, so he's ready to take that step sooner than usual.
Hi, I'm knowledgeable about music. Yes, the summoning and dismissal of Maestro was infuriating. The "devil's chord" is a real interval, that was really banned by the church for a long time (when the Roman Catholic Church controlled most of early Western composition), that's all really a thing. But it's an extremely common musical concept that's played all the time in loads of different musical contexts. There's nothing "lost" about it.
I love this episode. It was basically the closest the show got to a full-blown musical episode. I also felt like they could have made a Leonard Cohen "Hallelujah" reference, but it wouldn't have fit the time.
I think the reason the Maestro was now able to be brought back is because now the cord is being played in universe where the Doctor invoked superstition. The talk about it being the "Devil's cord" before they played it. It is one of those bits where the Doctor's actions come back to bite them.
It's also worth noting that the opening for thus episode and The Giggle both happen in 1925. Maybe that's what year it was back on Earth when The Doctor pulled his salt trick.
The "earth destroyed " is a homage/ripoff of a scene in the classic story "Pyramids of Mars"-which you've reviewed-in which SJS is shown how 1980 would be if the baddie won🎩
yes, i noticed that also
Maybe later there's a pantheon god named the Director or the Show Runner which will basically be completely fourth wall breaky and the Doctor is acknowledging he knew they were pulling strings the whole time.
My head cannon is that Paul adopted a dog named Fred instead of Martha, and that was the issue that caused the world to unravel.
I've heard a lot of pink floyds early stuff but that one oh boy i like the part about the mouse named gerald
but it does sound like my dog fred
I want Ruby to have an Andrew Scott in Fleabag moment with the doctor after he does a fourth wall break
I really liked the Maestro. Not as much as the Toymaker, but still very enjoyable. Personally I didn’t get tired by the performance, and something about the bombastic energy worked for me. While music can be slow and tender, something about an embodiment of music being so over the top intuitively clicks for me
The lost chord can refer to 'lost' chords when the tuning of the piano was changed to a standardised equal-tempered tuning. But I think it’s also come to mean a forgotten or unattainable thing. The 'tritone' interval was thought to be evil. Now it’s most commonly heard as the first 2 notes of the Simpsons' theme.
I should probably bring up that this is not the first episode in which the Doctor has fully broken the fourth wall like this. Before the Flood opened with the Doctor explaining the concept of the bootstrap paradox directly to the audience and playing the Doctor Who theme on his electric guitar. One could brush this scene off as purely for the audience's benefit and not entirely canon, but at the end of the episode when the link to the opening is made, the Doctor very blatantly turns to the camera mid-conversation with Clara.
I'm also glad you made the connection that "Harbinger" could be connected to the other members of the Toymaker's pantheon. I was concerned that his appearance meant Maestro would become a recurring villain, and while I really liked Maestro I feel like this episode is all you can really do with them - the gimmick has been used up, another Maestro episode would just feel like a repeat. The only way I could see the Maestro returning and it going well would be if they returned alongside other pantheon members we have yet to meet in sort of a Legion of Doom/Sinister Six type episode where they unite. That way the musical gimmick would only be part of a larger whole, so it wouldn't feel like a repeat of this episode.
The idea of the devil's chord is actually a real musical thing. In the early days of Western 'classical' music, it was thought that three certain notes played together should never be played, because they suggest the Devil's involvement. Black Sabbath famously use this chord in their titular opening song to their first album.
That’s actually a really weird myth, the tritone (not three specific notes, an interval of three whole tones, so like F and B) was never considered satanic or banned, it was just considered ugly. It’s weird that you not only repeated a myth, but you repeated it wrong. Also, the Middle Ages were not the early days of classical music in the same way that my grandmother’s childhood was not my early days.
@Karamazov9 Thank you for your insight. Myth or not, it's still what inspired this episode.
I'd have to go back and rewatch it but I'm pretty sure the chord that dismissed the Maestro was a C major which is pretty bog standard. Thinking about it, as a massive Beatles fan, I would have liked it to have been the opening chord from "Hard Day's Night" which is complex enough that it's actual structure was debated for a few decades after its release
You didn't hear that because not even a company like Disney can afford to pay the royalties that would entail from licensing The Beetles catalogue.
@@scpatl4now It's a single chord. That's not something that can be copyrighted
@@tmage23 I was talking about hearing "Hard Days Night", not the chord.
If I owned the Beatles catalogue I'd be very happy to have it introduced to a new audience via Doctor Who. The lack of Beatles music in this episode was unforgivable and heads need banging together.
@@JayJamsSpams Exactly! I think copyright and royalties and record labels are honestly becoming more of a burden, and it needs reform. Here's n example, when the original Star Wars was released, George Lucas gave the scripts to National Public Radio, for... a dollar! One, dollar, and they made a four hour audio drama out of it and then did Empire Strikes Back and Return of The Jedi as well! Now that's some awesome use of original material.
Didn't Capaldi's Doctor literally look directly into the camera and say "Google it" in series 9?
He talks directly into the camera in that whole scene, but you could take that as 12 just lecturing out loud pretending there's somebody there or pretending he's talking to Clara which is something he does anyway
Agreed. For a villain to really work well you need a balance between Power and Subtlety.
I've seen several theories about the BBC actress Susan Twist who has, so far, appeared in every episode this season (including Church at Ruby Road). Some theories suggest that she will be playing The One Who Waits or the Doctor's granddaughter. It is possible that the whole "There's always a twist at the end" is a poke or a foreshadowing of this.
21: 24 about Ruby saying ''you always knows'' line is not that fast, is said that Ruby is traveling for about 6 months with the Doctor, is weird this time jump between space babies and Devils chord but happened. So she is already had adventures with him in off.
should i revise for my maths gcse which is on thursday or shall I watch this review?
I think we both know my answer
Good luck for your gcse!
The Doctor's suit is anachronistic it was designed in 1968.
The miscasting of John and Paul bothered me so much more than the inadequate facial expressions of the space babies.
I’m so glad I finally have words for why I don’t like drag kahdkshd, I’ve always been irked by it in spite of not disliking anything about it in theory and them turning it up to 11 and staying there is absolutely exactly the energy I can’t handle. Thank you!!