Same here. The 1860’s-1890’s... super cool firearms development. I love getting obscure rifles shooting again. Most of them probably being shot for the first time in well over a century.
@@gonnegottkehaskamp1667 I wouldn't say _any_ sort of computers, they had plenty of mechanical computers and manual mathematical aids. A slide rule is technically a computational device, for example. Besides, without a computer it just means it's slower doing the math, since you have to write it all out on paper and then go over it multiple times to make sure you didn't oops a plus sign somewhere.
@@DAKOTA56777 well but not CAD modelling and a good portion of the math would have been done via look up tables. Therefore a huge amount of hand fitting required ^^
@@pugnate666 Sure, but that wasn't my point, he said they didn't have any sort of computers, I was pointing out they did. Just not what we think of as a computer.
small french pronounciation lesson : almost all consonant at the end of words are silent except when they are followed by a vowel for example : "Saint-Etienne" is pronounce like "Sain tétienne" or "les Etats-Unis" is pronounce like "Les zétats zunis" It is called la liaison. (also when the last letter is a D it's pronounce [t] don't ask my language is weird)
I misread the title as "Gas-Vetterli" and was impressed that somebody was designing gas operated rifles in the 1880s. Now I'm kind of sad that they weren't.
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 Actually, Maxim's first attempt at an automatic gun was a recoil-operated Winchester rifle which he built in 1882-1883 and which formed the basis for his first patent in 1883. It wasn't successful IIRC but then neither was Mannlicher's gun. In terms of patents, I believe the first self-loading rifle to be designed (though I don't think anyone's found any proof it was ever built or tested) was a gas-operated variation of William Curtis' strange 1866 rifle.
@@blarton6375 Huh. You learn something new every day. I could have sworn most material on the mannlicher gun quotes it as the first self loader. This might just be a confusion of design and patent dates though.
The barrel key is the standard mounting method for the Vetterli fore end. The open loading window is also typical of the Vetterli. They initially had a sliding cover but it was quickly abandoned as unnecessary.
There really should be a version of this where the action freezes at a couple of points, a small animated-a-la-python Chap's head appears and proceeds to adds his words of widsom.
Ian in a large room full of French rifles. I’m surprised he doesn’t spontaneously combust from sheer joy. I’m waiting for him to sit in front of an empty table and say, “Today on Forgotten Weapons I’m going to show you a French rifle so obscure that it never actually existed.”
It was mighty decent of you, Ian, to use the tablecloth to hide the rock hard stiffie presumably poking up to just under your sternum conveniently out of frame. thanks for all the good work and keep it coming
What a thrill it must be to find a failed design like that. I collect old military weapons because each model represents the highest level of tech in the country at the time. Finding the steps along the way tells us about the thought process of engineers in those times. I really enjoy your channel and have for many years.
Would you set up a meeting with your French subscribers? ~ Oui! Would you set up a meeting with your German subscribers? ~ Ja! Would you set up a meeting with your Spanish subscribers? ~ si! Would Would you set up a meeting with your American subscribers? ~ Good god no man! Are you insane!?
I missed an opportunity to buy a chopped up vetterli that was used as a movie prop. Still kick myself for it and I keep the picture of it on my phone lock screen.
Ian, the Vetterli itself only had a loading gate on the 1869 model and 1870 police it was soon dropped. The cross key and underside cleaning/clearing rod was added to all after the 1871 update.
Wow. I am constantly amazed at the depth of your knowledge and the number of old unknown weapons you "dig up". 😁 ( the condition would suggest this may be what happened here. ) lol
The Swiss Vetterlis were originally designed with a dust cover over the loading gate but it was quickly discarded after (I think) the first year of production. I've always wondered why the Swiss did that.
Both the cross bolt and the under cleaning rod are exactly as on the Swiss military Vetterli. The front end has the appearance of being taken from the Vetterli and adapted by the French armoury rather than separately designed and manufactured.
That cutout looks to be about the same setup as the magazine cutoff for my 1869 Vetterli, and the crosskey for the foreend looks like an identical part to the crosskey on mine as well.
That style of crossbolt/wedge holding the foreend in place was very commonly used on black powder era rifles and shotguns in Europe, mainly on sporting guns.
I'm guessing the inconsistency of corrosion is probably due to not cleaning off the black powder salts correctly. Or it could have gone through corrosion trials and that royally f'd it up.
Could it be that the missing piece on the right side of the gate would actually have had a use to conceal/close the gate, maybe in addition to another use (magazine cutoff etc.)?
Normal Swiss Vetterlis didn't have a cover on the loading gate either, so I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to be. I think Ian's text comment of it possibly being a mag cutoff is most likely, since basically everyone of the time required those for military trials.
Interesting that the receiver, barrel & the wood looked to be in decent condition, but everything else seemed quite pitted & worn. Any explanation for this?
The fact the Henry repeating arms had anything to do with this rifle made watching this worth my while. I typically don't like most French firearms at all and Henry helping the French was both amusing and educational. Thanks Ian.
I almost bought a Swiss Vetterli, back in the 1980's and it a sliding loading cover, it was pinned in place, I believe it was a .41 caliber. Well under $100- for it.
I picked one up not long ago, it’s a pleasure of a rifle but definitely of an older time. Long, heavy, cumbersome.. you need to be quite forceful to get the elevator to load cartridges. It has a certain look and grace to it though. You can still find em! Just not for
Hope you come back to France after that pandemic. I want to see more obscure weapons or just French Army stuff in general 👍 PS: Still hoping for a video about the AN-52 or AAN F1 machine gun 😁
A breach in the space-time continuum that leads to an alternate universe with Steampunk-Lebel laser rifles, Plasma firing MAT-49s and FAMAS-Bolters shooting 40mm grenades. But it´s just my theory ;)
Hi, Ian, do have any thing on the Berretta Model 102 Sable, >22LR caliber semi auto pistol from the early 1970's? I have one, but by the time I decided to purchase a spare magazine, there seemed to bee very few available and were priced out of sight.. Thanks for the odd-balls you show us and Stay safe.
Hi Ian a very interesting and informative video as usual. I'm sure you noticed it but did not mention that there is a 4 figure number seen at 2:53, just above your right thumb, possibly a serial number. Just a small detail I know. Always enjoy your content.
Normal Swiss Vetterlis didn't have a cover on the loading gate either, so I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to be. I think Ian's text comment of it possibly being a mag cutoff is most likely, since basically everyone of the time required those for military trials.
Ian, would the Henry not be the Henry that was Entrepreneur at Chatellerault, and also worked at St. ETIENNE 1884-95? The markings are similar to the non military "Henry Entrepreneur" marked Gras rifles and bayonets.
Do you watch any of Jonathan Ferguson's videos or maybe even talked to him ever? He's the Keeper of Firearms & Artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK. I feel like he's true to what you think a museum should be about (like in your video about museums) but at the same time he's found a way to appeal to the general public.
@@ForgottenWeaponsI can definitely see the difference between the types of guns & how people like you guys explain their background compared to most other RUclips channels that are mostly "look at this cool gun & watch me shoot something"
Hi Ian.Not video relative question but can I ask you this question? Do you think full ambidextrous is really needed for gun?What do you think about the idea of having a buttstock that can be folded to both left and right?Like the one on the AK-12 designed by Zlobin?(prototype AK-12)
Ian, I understand that you can get pump action regular rifles, like a pump action AR15. Did they experiment with this type of system back in the day? If so could you feature one in a video at some point. Thanks 👍🏼🇬🇧
Name a more iconic duo: Ian and obscure French Rifles
Germans and overcomplicated mechanics
The M14 and failure
Hi-point and good looks
Beretta and M1 Garand create what the M14 should've been.
Glock and perfection
Gras Vetterli: If a winchester repeater walked into a bar and had an unfortunate affair with a lebel rifle
... and shot his load...
Unfortunate? Dude, can you imagine being fortunate enough to be the only gun ever to get laid?
@@Touay. ...in chain detonation...
Like fois gras on a hot dog...
@@notgraham.7215 err, you are aware that marines give their rifles girls names, right?
I love these transitional ages of firearm design.
There are soo many novel and daring ideas.
Must have been awesome working in this field back then.
Its also really impressive what they managed to build without any sort of computers and all that. Thats the real marvel for me.
Same here. The 1860’s-1890’s... super cool firearms development. I love getting obscure rifles shooting again. Most of them probably being shot for the first time in well over a century.
@@gonnegottkehaskamp1667 I wouldn't say _any_ sort of computers, they had plenty of mechanical computers and manual mathematical aids. A slide rule is technically a computational device, for example.
Besides, without a computer it just means it's slower doing the math, since you have to write it all out on paper and then go over it multiple times to make sure you didn't oops a plus sign somewhere.
@@DAKOTA56777 well but not CAD modelling and a good portion of the math would have been done via look up tables. Therefore a huge amount of hand fitting required ^^
@@pugnate666 Sure, but that wasn't my point, he said they didn't have any sort of computers, I was pointing out they did. Just not what we think of as a computer.
Anyone looking at the rifles up the back and thinking “Do them too... do themmmmm toooooooo!” 😂
about every item in that background.
Always him and Othais as well
Pretty much.
These kind of oddball experimenal weapons is my main reason for subbing on this channel. This and the beard.
Mainly the beard though
@@alkestos Gun Jesus
What can I say?
And the hats too
small french pronounciation lesson : almost all consonant at the end of words are silent except when they are followed by a vowel for example : "Saint-Etienne" is pronounce like "Sain tétienne" or "les Etats-Unis" is pronounce like "Les zétats zunis"
It is called la liaison.
(also when the last letter is a D it's pronounce [t] don't ask my language is weird)
If I hadn't heard this about four eightys sixteen times....
Yours and everyone else's
@@skoshman1 you meant four-twenties sixteen times i assume ? :p
@@wawagabriel ...yes. Working night shift too long...
I thought la liaison was what happens after you meet a mademoiselle in a smoky French cafe!
I misread the title as "Gas-Vetterli" and was impressed that somebody was designing gas operated rifles in the 1880s.
Now I'm kind of sad that they weren't.
They were. The first self loading rifle is the Mannlicher 1885 which is gas operated flapper locked.
@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 Actually, Maxim's first attempt at an automatic gun was a recoil-operated Winchester rifle which he built in 1882-1883 and which formed the basis for his first patent in 1883. It wasn't successful IIRC but then neither was Mannlicher's gun. In terms of patents, I believe the first self-loading rifle to be designed (though I don't think anyone's found any proof it was ever built or tested) was a gas-operated variation of William Curtis' strange 1866 rifle.
@@blarton6375 Huh. You learn something new every day. I could have sworn most material on the mannlicher gun quotes it as the first self loader.
This might just be a confusion of design and patent dates though.
It really took smokeless powder to make gas-operated firearms viable.
Ian as Vince McMahon meme:
19th century rifle 🤔
Mechanically weird 😏
Rejected trials prototype 😲
French 😵
The barrel key is the standard mounting method for the Vetterli fore end.
The open loading window is also typical of the Vetterli. They initially had a sliding cover but it was quickly abandoned as unnecessary.
There really should be a version of this where the action freezes at a couple of points, a small animated-a-la-python Chap's head appears and proceeds to adds his words of widsom.
@@rickansell661 LOL 😂
Ian in a large room full of French rifles. I’m surprised he doesn’t spontaneously combust from sheer joy.
I’m waiting for him to sit in front of an empty table and say, “Today on Forgotten Weapons I’m going to show you a French rifle so obscure that it never actually existed.”
Gun Jesus blessed us again with another obscure rifle!
It was mighty decent of you, Ian, to use the tablecloth to hide the rock hard stiffie presumably poking up to just under your sternum conveniently out of frame. thanks for all the good work and keep it coming
Couldn’t stop looking at the hats in background
Every gun manufacturer in 1890’s: “lets give this rifle a mag cap of 5 rounds”
Lee and the Enfield factory: “hold my beer”
"640kB of memory should be enough for everyone" of 19th century 😂
Meanwhile at Schmidt Rubins r us
1 2 R O U N D S OF U N L I M I T E D F I R E P O W E R
Berthier: Actually, 3 is perfect!
@@Darilon12 - For colonial troops. That's all they need.
Remember, the British Navy at this time had a policy of being as big as the next two largest navies combined, so holding 10 rounds, was only natural.
Congratulations on the 2 millions, I love your work Ian
Congradulations with 2 mil subs!
I have a soft spot for Vetterli rifles. I own 3 and shoot 2 of them. It’s a gun that was very ahead of its time. It’s neat to see a French adaptation.
What a thrill it must be to find a failed design like that. I collect old military weapons because each model represents the highest level of tech in the country at the time. Finding the steps along the way tells us about the thought process of engineers in those times. I really enjoy your channel and have for many years.
Congrats on 2 million!
So in other words, it's an alternate history Lebel.
Always nice to see a new filming location! Hopefully there's more obscure French rifles in there for Ian to drool over and show to us. :)
Dammn Ian, you reached 2M subscribers, it's been a long way
Congratulations on 2 million subs, hope they donate as well. You deserve it!
I don't know what I would do without Ian teaching me about unique firearms
Next time you’re in Paris could you set up a meeting for your French subscribers?
Yes.
Do you guys have 32 French Longue?
ruclips.net/video/RzbHtUwrTvQ/видео.html
Yes
Would you set up a meeting with your French subscribers? ~ Oui!
Would you set up a meeting with your German subscribers? ~ Ja!
Would you set up a meeting with your Spanish subscribers? ~ si!
Would Would you set up a meeting with your American subscribers? ~ Good god no man! Are you insane!?
I'm getting flashes of Night Eats the World.
Would still like to see a segment on the Italian Vetterli series
Othais on C&Rsenal has a good series
@@Arbiter099 I have watched them. While good, yes, I still enjoy Ian's opinion and point of view.
Congrats on hitting 2 million subscribers Ian
I'd love a series on all the Vetterli rifles honestly.
2M subscribers. Congrats Ian!
Fascinating ... absolutely fascinating look into a most interesting period in firearms development. Thanks, as always, for sharing...
Your old firearms knowledge is insane!!! How you know all this crazy old stuff?! Love your vids! Thanks!
Thank you for all you do
Oh boy I just realized Gun Jesus is about to hit 2 million subscribers. What a joyous moment is in our near future.
this is so cursed and so beautiful at the same moment
Ian was in Paris for receiving the Arts and crafts medal that i asked the french gov to honor him with.
Congratulations to 2M subscribers!
Maybe the missing lever doubled as a cover for the loading gate.
Congrats on 2 mil subs!!
I missed an opportunity to buy a chopped up vetterli that was used as a movie prop. Still kick myself for it and I keep the picture of it on my phone lock screen.
Ian, the Vetterli itself only had a loading gate on the 1869 model and 1870 police it was soon dropped. The cross key and underside cleaning/clearing rod was added to all after the 1871 update.
Congrats on 2 million subscribers!
Interesting; i like the lines of that rifle.
Guessing Ian’s titles correctly before I click on the video is the closest I’ll ever come to speaking french
A rare, classy French rifle, that is "kinda cool," we have found Ian's Happy Place.
Wow. I am constantly amazed at the depth of your knowledge and the number of old unknown weapons you "dig up". 😁 ( the condition would suggest this may be what happened here. ) lol
The Swiss Vetterlis were originally designed with a dust cover over the loading gate but it was quickly discarded after (I think) the first year of production. I've always wondered why the Swiss did that.
Both the cross bolt and the under cleaning rod are exactly as on the Swiss military Vetterli. The front end has the appearance of being taken from the Vetterli and adapted by the French armoury rather than separately designed and manufactured.
That cutout looks to be about the same setup as the magazine cutoff for my 1869 Vetterli, and the crosskey for the foreend looks like an identical part to the crosskey on mine as well.
Thank you , Ian .
I always thought the Lebel manual of arms would have really benefitted from a loading gate.
That style of crossbolt/wedge holding the foreend in place was very commonly used on black powder era rifles and shotguns in Europe, mainly on sporting guns.
Finally hit 2 million subs
Ian.....Experimental french rifle....Oui!
You can hear Ian fangirling.
I usually wait till the end before liking, but experimental repeaters get an immediate like.
Almost looks like two rifles combined to mostly make one, due to the differences in heavily corroded parts next to pristine parts.
I'm guessing the inconsistency of corrosion is probably due to not cleaning off the black powder salts correctly. Or it could have gone through corrosion trials and that royally f'd it up.
Ian, at 3:03 in the frame just above your thumb is that a date or serial number on the breech? Looks to me like 1887 or 1883?
Could it be that the missing piece on the right side of the gate would actually have had a use to conceal/close the gate, maybe in addition to another use (magazine cutoff etc.)?
Normal Swiss Vetterlis didn't have a cover on the loading gate either, so I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to be. I think Ian's text comment of it possibly being a mag cutoff is most likely, since basically everyone of the time required those for military trials.
Digging that cuirassier helmet in the background.
Ian must of had a hard time handing this one back to the owner
WHOA! Super cool!
P.S. That display in the background tho!
Ian took a large shoulder bag that day.
A video of Ian in his happy space.
Very interesting Ian. Wouldn’t it be fun to see if it actually functions properly?! Those trials must have been a good time back in that era.
Interesting that the receiver, barrel & the wood looked to be in decent condition, but everything else seemed quite pitted & worn. Any explanation for this?
That is odd, typically it's the other way around. My best guess is it got wet at some point and was only dried and oiled on the outside.
The fact the Henry repeating arms had anything to do with this rifle made watching this worth my while. I typically don't like most French firearms at all and Henry helping the French was both amusing and educational. Thanks Ian.
No dust guard the French are so confident in the cleanliness of their infantry
That's quite a cool French gallery
RDR2 Devs: “WRITE THAT DOWN, WRITE THAT DOWN!”
I almost bought a Swiss Vetterli, back in the 1980's and it a sliding loading cover, it was pinned in place, I believe it was a .41 caliber. Well under $100- for it.
I picked one up not long ago, it’s a pleasure of a rifle but definitely of an older time. Long, heavy, cumbersome.. you need to be quite forceful to get the elevator to load cartridges. It has a certain look and grace to it though. You can still find em! Just not for
I'll give one of you my sole for a box of .41 swiss
Cost and availability of the ammo put me off.
@@notgraham.7215 Why would anyone want the bottom of one of your shoes??? Oh.....you meant soul.....lol.
@@robertrobert7924 no. These are very nice boots.
What that’s good timing because I have been up sense 4 am
So close to 2 million subs !
He's done it!
Something actually forgotten, judging by the corrosion damage.
I bet they will discover some of the hats/helmets in the background are missing once Ian leaves.
So a Lebel 1886 and a Winchester walk into a bar...
Hope you come back to France after that pandemic. I want to see more obscure weapons or just French Army stuff in general 👍
PS: Still hoping for a video about the AN-52 or AAN F1 machine gun 😁
AA 52 sexy girl
@@marcamant7258 Yes, derived from german engineering with some really cool stuff on it 👍
It’s like a steampunk Lebel.
Looks like the missing lever could have held a cover to the Loading gate. Is that even possible?
Now think of it.
What would happen if Ian finds the first ever firearm made in France?
A breach in the space-time continuum that leads to an alternate universe with Steampunk-Lebel laser rifles, Plasma firing MAT-49s and FAMAS-Bolters shooting 40mm grenades. But it´s just my theory ;)
Missed this rifle in verdun
we are claiming Ian for France.
Gorgeous
Did anyone remember the video when Ian accidentally fix a broken antique gun ? I want to watch it again but i forget the title lol
It is a rifle you take anywhere near dust, mud or sand.
Perhaps the missing lever was a magazine cutoff, a la the 1903?
Hi, Ian, do have any thing on the Berretta Model 102 Sable, >22LR caliber semi auto pistol from the early 1970's? I have one, but by the time I decided to purchase a spare magazine, there seemed to bee very few available and were priced out of sight.. Thanks for the odd-balls you show us and Stay safe.
Hi Ian a very interesting and informative video as usual. I'm sure you noticed it but did not mention that there is a 4 figure number seen at 2:53, just above your right thumb, possibly a serial number. Just a small detail I know. Always enjoy your content.
Could the missing lever have been a dust cover for the loading gate? Thats just what I would have done as an engineer.
Normal Swiss Vetterlis didn't have a cover on the loading gate either, so I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to be. I think Ian's text comment of it possibly being a mag cutoff is most likely, since basically everyone of the time required those for military trials.
Serial number visible from 2:10 on, and at ruclips.net/video/wvZY0BiRB3o/видео.html - it's on the bottom of the action "tube"
Ian, would the Henry not be the Henry that was Entrepreneur at Chatellerault, and also worked at St. ETIENNE 1884-95? The markings are similar to the non military "Henry Entrepreneur" marked Gras rifles and bayonets.
So it's not Henry. It's "enree".
Do you watch any of Jonathan Ferguson's videos or maybe even talked to him ever? He's the Keeper of Firearms & Artillery at the Royal Armouries Museum in the UK. I feel like he's true to what you think a museum should be about (like in your video about museums) but at the same time he's found a way to appeal to the general public.
Yes, I've had him on the channel a number of times, and helped edit his upcoming book on British bullpup rifles.
@@ForgottenWeaponsI can definitely see the difference between the types of guns & how people like you guys explain their background compared to most other RUclips channels that are mostly "look at this cool gun & watch me shoot something"
Hi Ian.Not video relative question but can I ask you this question?
Do you think full ambidextrous is really needed for gun?What do you think about the idea of having a buttstock that can be folded to both left and right?Like the one on the AK-12 designed by Zlobin?(prototype AK-12)
Looks all way to complicated to survive the muck of WW1., but i can see you realy liked it Ian.
of course a french rifle... im starting to be excited :)
Ian, if you are still in Paris you should try to find "forgotten weapons" in some streets.:-)
Never been this early. It's almost like the weapons are not forgotten yet.
The Gras vetterli? I remember it like I saw one on RUclips. Feels like it was only a minute or two ago
Ian, I understand that you can get pump action regular rifles, like a pump action AR15. Did they experiment with this type of system back in the day? If so could you feature one in a video at some point.
Thanks 👍🏼🇬🇧
It's weird Henry's first side loader was a failed French bolt action rifle....
This is a frankenstein cursed rifle and for some i kinda like the look, butcher a gras and vetterli and make it sorta look like a lebel rifle
i hope one day ian would get a hold on the prototype malaysian assault rifle and dunk on it