I am so glad I stumbled on your channel during the summer for one of your war stories. Binged all your videos and now I have to wait like everyone else!
As a Canadian we generally dislike the Geneva convention because the first Geneva convention was just them slapping our knuckles with a ruler saying we can't stab someone and shoot them
"No Canada you cant do that." What about this? "No" This? "No not that either wtf" And how about this? "How the fuck are you coming up with this." This? "Honestly just. Write it all down and send it to us at this point." And thus, the geneva convention was born.
DOD: "Now that after millions of dollars and nearly a decade we've decided to go with the m16 but shorter, what the hell do we do with all these prototype rifles we've made?" Sci-fi movie/tv show studios: "We'll take them" DOD: "You sure? they're really weird lookin-" Studios: *slams large briefcase of money on table* "I SAID WE'LL TAKE THEM"
Other way around! Military branches have a "Hollywood Liaison Office" where they pay Hollywood to use the right equipment _properly._ God only knows much the Air Force paid for Stargate.
It's harder to be mad at the US government when it goes full send mode sometimes. There's a certain charm to it. Like when my uncle Cletus shotguns a beer and jumps off the roof naked in front of the whole family at Thanksgiving.
My Uncle carried the M79 in Vietnam. They MAY have accidentally a few times shot enemies directly with HE rounds. There was no evidence left to say whether it exploded inside or outside the target.
@@aimer0 I was just taking his word for it, since he put it in the video. More research has shown that the 400gram limit was listed by the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, but the U.S. is not a signatory of that. Other prohibitions that might apply to this weapon are rather vague, banning weapons that "cause unnecessary suffering." Specific laws, of course, are undesirable because one's hypocrisy becomes more evident when selectively enforcing them.
@@MrMagnaniman The US has a tendency to mostly follow arms treaties without actually signing onto them. It keeps our options open. The only ones we have really signed recently are those we negotiate with direct adversaries, which usually have a time limit on them.
I was thinking exactly the same thing, but figured I'd check the comments first. The solution is just to give it to a Texas contractor to finish the development.
Another thing to keep in mind, info via my sailor daughter, the radios in the jet they lost can't connect to radios of other military aircraft in the area because they function on different frequencies. The pilot literally had to knock on the door of the house in whose backyard he landed in, and call the civilian 911 dispatcher to report the crash.
@GUNNER67akaKelt she heard it too. She an AO with a helicopter squadron, and they got to listen to it. Just her describing the call had me laughing so hard I was crying.
Yeah, that's basically how all radios work. If you have an AM radio and you try to talk to an FM radio (HF to VHF), you'll achieve nothing. The fact that there wasn't anyone around with an emergency radio set up is a failure on the planners but I suspect it's because the radio that is in the ejection kit is probably only programmed and comsec'd when they go on deployments
I mean, tracers aren’t technically allowed because they “have a chance to ignite enemy combatants” but as far as I know we still use them in SAWs and other vehicle mounted machine guns because their purpose is a support weapon and they aren’t intended to directly kill the enemy but rather pin them down for riflemen
Yeah tends to happen when you put a smart grenade launcher on your gun. I'm assuming that the smart grenade launcher is detachable so you can use just the rifle in buildings.
@@kittydaddy2023I'm sure some law major CO who happened to remember reading about that clause at some point in his life witnessed one of these being tested, did some ethics calculus, and decided it was not worth his retirement pension to rock the boat.
Welcome to the Military Industrial Complex. Then when myself and thousands of others deployed we never got access to most of the shit in our inventory due to the bullshit ROE and having to fight with our hands tied.
I was one of the soldiers who tested this weapon in 1996. It was fitted with a 20mm that had two settings (1. Direct impact 2. Timed delay). We set the delay to explode at a set range over walls, in windows, or foxholes. It was also meant to pierce light armor and explode after penetration.
Ok, my brain only computes inches and pounds… so I had to look up 400g, and that’s about .88 pounds. Then I thought, there’s no way a standard 40mm grenade weighs that much, so I looked that up also (239g total, 186g projectile). That being the case, how is the 40mm grenade we know and love ok, but it’s younger (and smarter) 25mm brother isn’t. 🤷🏻♂️
40mm explodes on impact making it ordinance. The smart grenades could be programed to explode inside the body of a combatant. Which is the illegal part of
The line between the two is drawn with a hair and a lot of bureaucratic sweat. Basically it’ll only be enforced by anyone who gives a damn and/or wins the next major conflict.
@@the_fat_electrician this is a prime example of why these rules are stupid `, people gonna get exploded Eitherway. Also not like everyone will (and has) thrown out all these rules when stuff gets real.
The XM-25 Punisher was apparently an immediate fight stopper in Afghanistan. It was in very limited use, but I remember reading articles that as soon as the XM-25 opened up, the fight was over.
Too bad the Inkunzi PAW didn't succeed, for largely the same legal reasons in South Africa. But it was a much cheaper alternative to the XM25, and perhaps more useful. FW has a great video on it. Truly a weapon every squad needs.
Yeah, it seems really strange that they cannot find some legal workaround for a 20 to 25mm weapon, given how seemingly arbitrary the mandates are. Largely because an infantry weapon of less than 20lbs, in each fireteam or squad, that is ancillary to an LMG, that offers direct fire payload delivery of far more efficacy than a bullet seems really logical. For VBIED's, suppression of enemy defensive positions, saturation of a trenchline, removing snipers, disabling light skin vehicles, etc. Especially one like the PAW, which is essentially a giant big bore revolver, stupid simple to operate with no need for expensive programable fuzes, that has remarkably flat trajectory out to a thousand yards, that carries a burst payload capable of eliminating multiple enemies in one shot. A weapon like that eliminates the need for risking additional assets and heavier weapons to subdue a target via airstrike, mortars, or artillery simply by nature of it being man portable, and organic within the squad. With the additional legal benefit of significant reduction in collateral damage due to the precise nature of being able to immediately dump two rounds into a second story window at 500yds. Something like the PAW seems to be the actual future of infantry small arms because of these reasons, IMHO...
You should do one on Audie Murphy Basically won EVERY medal at the time, played himself in the movie about himself that had to downplay the badassness for believability, and might be the originator of 'Drive this tank close so I can stab them with my sword' Also, shoutout to Rodger Young, who earned a Medal of Honor and was honored in Starship Troopers, yet when I did a report on him for school was absent from 5 different books about Medal of Honor recipients.
You may want to look at when he got his Medal Of Honor, relative to when the book were produced... The books may have come out prior to his Medal Of Honor...
You should do a video on Desmond Doss. On one hand, yes, they made a movie about him (hacksaw ridge), but on the other hand, movie producers had to nerf his real life actions for the script because they had been deemed to "unbelievable" for movie audiences.
Happened in The Admiral: Roaring Currents, a movie about Yi Sun-sin. Keep in mind the movie itself is a straight-up propaganda piece, so the fact they tried to play down the feats he pulled off in the battle the movie shows is something (that and they were shoehorning in giving the Korean civilians something to do in the narrative cause... propaganda for Korean public to be inspired by). But you learn about his entire career from the start to his death and he had legendary skill. It really the funny thing about history is you find people who do things so amazing that they could or have had a movie made about them, but often do stuff so amazing the movie nerfs them cause it just seems TOO amazing.
Fun fact: the United States never signed any treaties or agreements that would specifically prohibit the use of expanding or exploding ammunition. The U.S. did not agree to IV-3 of the Hague Convention of 1899, and wasn’t even invited to the convention for the Declaration of Saint Petersburg of 1868. While the U.S. did ratify IV-23 of the Hague Convention of 1907, IV-23 does not prohibit the use of expanding or exploding ammunition by name, only that, “…it is especially forbidden to employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering.” Additionally, neither Geneva Convention prohibits the use of expanding or exploding ammunition. And that’s why the U.S. military gets to use hollow-point bullets, such as the M1153 Special Purpose ammunition for the M17, which is a jacketed hollow-point cartridge. This means that the XM-29 technically isn’t a war crime. Well, for the U.S., anyway. It also stops being a war crime for anyone fighting a war that the U.S. happens to enter (IV-3 of the Hague Convention of 1899 is only binding in a war between contracting parties, and ceases to be so when any non-contracting power joins one of the belligerents in said war between contracting parties, such as when the U.S. entered World War I).
@@GreasyBeasty That comes part and parcel with war. War is fought with weapons, and international regulations on the use of a given weapon are dependent on nations binding themselves with said regulations. America decided that expanding and exploding ammunition was a worthwhile weapon, and decided not to ratify IV-3. That is what I mean by “war is scary”. War isn’t just the fighting on the battlefield. It’s the logistics. It’s the industry. It’s the diplomacy and negotiations. It’s the stupid political bullshit and bureaucratic nonsense. All it takes for an international agreement to stop working is for one party to disagree. Of course, America can’t very well use such weapons without expecting anyone else to. As mentioned, the moment America enters a war, all belligerents are freed from the restrictions of IV-3, and will likely break out the expanding ammunition like they did in WWI.
The darkly amusing thing about the original Saint Petersburg Declaration was that the INTENT was to ban the mildly lethal weapons that would only cause the poor plebs to die painfully over and extended period. Blowing them into a fine paste with a massive weapon was considered not only perfectly fine, but desirable. Hence the INTENT was to ensure that only weapons capably of absolutely killing your enemy were used in combat... but only between nations that had signed the Declaration. So, short answer? Not a war crime... unless you are fighting Wurttemberg or Bavaria.
Non-military here - isn’t a warning shot part of vehicle interdiction at a checkpoint? Thought that was part of the escalation of force for that specific purpose.
@habloespwnol2117 I'm not going to say yes or no absolutely. What i will say is that it was never part of any training i received. But i was a combat engineer, not an MP. Clearing someone through a checkpoint is an actual part of their job. But the thing is, every round you fire is your responsibility. A firefight in an urban area is one thing, lots of lead in the air. But you cut one loose as a warning, yeah, you might want to be hyperaware of what's downrange. That's a challenge at a checkpoint. If it's me, and you give me a reason to go loud, we're past warning shots. You're fucked. Other's experience may vary.
I remember seeing this thing at 'take your child to work day' growing up, back when it was first being developed. It was super cool because they were prototyping the optics housing using very early SLA printing. Straight up sci-fi stuff in the 90's. Fun fact, the fuses in those grenades weren't that smart. All they do is count how many times the round spins. The launcher sets it to go off after X spins, it detonates at X range.
The M203 was intended to give the grenadier a more active role in combat instead of the rest of the squad/platoon fighting until time to chunk grenades farther downrange than they can be thrown.
I hadn't realized the XM25 ever actually saw combat, much less that it was ever effective. I was really wondering why the thing got canned. Then you explained... Yeah, that would do it.
I carried one in 2011-2012, heavy and awkward. Worked good, until they didn’t. They stopped programming the rounds and would just shoot duds. Good concept, but didn’t hold up in combat environment.
Naw, the warcrime thing was a weird attempt at delaying by HK, who being from Germany (a state that didn't exist when the St. Petersburg Declaration, which _only applies to wars between those who signed it_ , was signed) selling to America (a state that didn't sign the Declaration) should have no issues with the weapon. It was also unclear why it had suddenly become an issue when HK had been working on small explosive rounds with the US for about thirty years at that point.
The XM-29 scope was cutting edge and pretty OP but now the average civilian can get 90% of that capability, with probably better resolution from Pard for $4k. Weight-wise, my Super Gucci "Future Warfare Rifle/SPR/DMR" 6 ARC build weighs around a ridiculous 16lbs even with a Carbon fiber barrel and JP low mass internals.
I love that the rifle is the underbarrel attachment😂😂 Truly a grunts'n'crafts masterpiece! Only thing missing is one of those elastic shell holders for shotguns, sized for crayons, so the marines can bring their field rations with them on their gun
The crazy thing is I graduated HS in 03 thinking this thing was pure fiction. It appeared in at least two of the Seal Team Seven book series, the LAST two of which were published in May of 2004 and 2005, respectively.
XM 25, basically same thing with a smaller grenade was deployed and rejected. The rangers given it refused to use it after just a couple operations. Basically said too heavy, too little ammo, and not worth swapping an M4 for when you can just put a UBGL on an M4 anyway.
I went to the Army Research Lab in Maryland as a senior in high school. National Science Fair side quest. I remember the future soldier program, the programmable burst grenades, heads-up displays and battle connectivity... 5 types of puck shaped sensors you could toss out and gather data with -- sonic, magnetic, heat, etc. (I forget all of them). It was an impressive feat... the research scientists were most concerned with making new types of batteries, from what I noticed.
That is actually insanely heavy. Even old era swords weighed FAR less than that. Some of the largest ones used weren't really ever over 8 Lb's. Imagine trying to carry and shoot something twice that weight. Might not be as difficult as swinging the thing around actively but that's still gonna tire people out.
M249 saw is 16lbs unloaded, 18-19 lbs loaded. M240b is 27lbs. Both were regularly carried and fired. There’s a reason the infantry picks the cornfed sons-o-bitches to be machine gunners.
Outlawing explosive bullets seems like a really weird entry in the Geneva convention at a glance. My guess is that the original intent was to protect medical personnel from unexploded ordinance inside a victim. Doctors might be hesitate to operate on a man with an unexploded grenade in his leg.
Nah it was basically “oh my they might use it on our guys hey everyone let’s not use these things” it’s basically why anything that’s illegal is illegal that’s why when gas was used in WW1 everyone starting gas
IIRC it was part of the "no hollow points" rules on the grounds of "you've already shot the guy, at least give him a chance to sit out the rest of the war in rehab."
Funny how America constantly violates the Geneva convention. Worst part is we use stuff explicitly outlawed against combatants against our own people....i.e tear gas,hollow point rounds just to start with and both of those are actually EXPLICITLY stated as being banned in war yet we use them against our own people in situations not really warranting it like against peaceful protesters.
The 400g part comes from the Saint Petersburg Declaration of 1868 and only applies to countries which signed it (US wasn't invited to the party) and then was superseded by the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 which do allow for explosive rounds under certain circumstances. Which is why we have fun toys like the Mk 211, fortunately for the bad guys it's not anti-personnel it's anti-material, unfortunately for the bad guys the rifle they're holding is material
Pretty sure the USA didn't sign that part of the Hague conventions, anyway. The German OEM H&K was the one babbling about this legality topic, which is why the USA simply stopped the production line and now the Army is sitting on the USA-owned IP. It will likely make a comeback in some form eventually, and presumably with rounds that aren't handmade and have better QA.
Oh yeah, its incredible how someone can start to "babble" about legality when its so darn effective at killing! Those windowlickers and their bullshit moral compass.@@Reticuli
@@Reticuli I'm pretty sure a lot of this stuff the US follows on principle but doesn't sign a lot of these just to leave the door open if the need arises, which is fair enough honestly.
I saw a really interesting story about the defense of Castle Itter. It's got Fat Electrician written all over it. The time a US tank crew, some Wehrmacht Soldiers and a Waffen SS Officer united in defending French VIP prisoners against an attacking force of Panzergrenadiers.
Jenny at the gates, as the SS open fire There´s no time to waste, the final battle has begun After the downfall, a castle besieged Facing the Nazis awaiting relief Gangl and Lee and their men set the prisoners free An it’s the end of the line of the final journey Enemies leaving the past And it’s American troops and the German army Joining together at last
its even weirder it was An american tanker force 1 french Tennis champion, a platoon of Nazi troopers Also the Captive french leadership Against a Shit ton of Waffen SS.
"It's never a war crime the first time" "Geneva convention,more like Geneva suggestion." "It's not a sin if you gonna win" "Prohibited? Funny way to say Powerful." "Grenades rhyme with parades.That's how you know it's effective." "If war is a game well then America wants a highly overpowere-COMFORTABLE... Gaming chair..."
If you want weapons from Starship Troopers, you'd be better served by the book. Powered armor that lets you leap small buildings in a single bound, a Y-rack popping grenades left and right every time you touch down and just for snorts and giggles, a "hand flamer". Thank you Robert A. Heinlein, USNC Class of 1929
Makes me wonder what Heinlein would have thought of Mandalorians from Star Wars. Because while their gear isn't quite Starship Troopers powered armour, they definitely are close in how much ordinance and armaments they tend to carry.
@@danielisarnon1280 Heinlein was an engineer, just about everything in his stories could be built. Fun Fact: Some of Heinlein's patents are still classified top secret by the Department of Defense.
I went to basic in 2003. I remember seeing random pictures and hearing rumors about it. We were all making fun of it without really knowing what we were even talking about. Most of us had never held a service rifle before basic. I'm really glad we never ended up switching to it.
My unit had several XM-25’s in Afghanistan back in 2011-2012. That thing would stop fire fights pretty quickly and was fun as hell to shoot. But it was heavy, bulky and awkward to carry. And we also had to carry our M4 with it while on foot patrol in case something happened. It was good when it worked, but with all those electronics and sensors it broke constantly. And wouldn’t program the rounds, so it would just lob 25mm duds and we stopped carrying them. They picked them up from us after another unit somewhere else had a grenade detonate in the barrel. Plus the round were about $1,000 each.
@@daomingjinmanufacturing time, maybe. I just can't imagine a literal programmable smart fuse that's capable of being fired out of a gun being cheap. Honestly, $1k for something like that seems like a steal, considering that you literally burn what a low-end luxury car costs every time a Javelin leaves the tube.
@@mage3690 even manufacturing for something like is dirt cheap. It's an extremely simple operating circuit by today's standards, so the manufacturer likely used an IC production line that's been proven reliable for decades and returned it's original construction investment back in the 90's, churning the tiny chips out for fractions of a cent per unit. However, the reliability testing process each would be put through would be highly specialized and time consuming, and is likely the excuse the monopoly manufacturer needed to pump the price up from "why are we even bothering?" to "license to print money"
Been obsessed with this thing since i saw one in 007 Nightfire on the GameCube and was wondering why nobody talks about it anymore. The fact that's a literal war crime we committed by accident for almost 10 years explains a lot.
Colts history of low effort contract responses is great. Not only the "twice the accuracy? How bout shoot twice :)" but when asked for an offensive socom handgun they produced a suppressed 1911
My dad worked on the OICW/OCSW from the early 90's until 2001 on the circuit board design team. A few comments based on what he told me: - The grenade itself was 100% ATK and the rifle portion 100% HK. - ATK designed the grenade portion of the OICW to be 25mm from the start, same round required by OCSW. DoD wanted the 20mm round for OICW and ATK had to work around that requirement. - They never fit enough explosive in the 20mm round to reach the lethality they were after with the circuit board required for programmable burst. - Working with HK was a nightmare. - Circuit board sourcing was never an issue. The US still had sufficient production capabilities in the late 90's to manufacture them domestically. - The 25mm round had many more capabilities than the DoD was interested in at the time, specifically programming when the grenade would explode. - The project was far from a failure. The R&D that went into the OICW grenade portion resulted in the programmable rounds use on the 25mm and 30mm Bushmaster cannons.
There is no such thing as wasted research. Oh, sure, it's a great place to hide pork and grift , but the research itself is always worth, no matter what subject. "We know not which our works our Lord will allow to bear fruit." (Or Random Chance, per your beliefs.)
I've got a book that I just call my Gun Bible, it's an encyclopedia of firearms from the first development up until I think 2016 and it has this gun, the ACR, and a bunch of those other weird "future weapons" and I'm so glad I got to hear you describe these guns instead of just having to read about them
@@kamina7347could you gimme the title/author or maybe the number on the barcode? Or if barterings your thing, I'll fight my apprentice in surprise single combat right now for it? Lol but seriously. I'll drown him in a shallow puddle of water if I have to lol
Sounds about right for the government to waste so much money on something that’s no longer used. I still remember when the rumors were flying about this “future” weapon. I believe I was on my second deployment in 2007. Either way America always finds a way to be more destructive
I remember seeing it featured in a D20 Modern RPG sourcebook of ultramodern weaponry around 03-04, but there was so much insane boom-candy in those pages it only rated much interest because the description of how it worked took an entire page, whereas other guns took like 1/4 to a 1/3.
"So check it out, I was there in my trench right when all I hear is 'Retreat Hell' some fucking psycho jumps in my trench kills my best friend with a suitcase that shoots grenades then stabbed me to death with it while screaming 'CHESTY WOULD BE PROUD."
I know this has been said before on other videos, but wouldn't it be great to be a part of The Fat Electrician's group of friends where you get to hear this level of entertaining story telling even if it is just about "Listen to what my uncle Ed did at Thanksgiving." Never a dull moment, I'm sure.
I remember first seeing "something" of the XM29 in the PlayStation2 titled "Extermination", that fired lock-on missiles instead of the 25mm Airburst grenades. Every other game had it fire grenades, with the game "The Punisher" just being a upgraded "5.56 Assault Rifle" (M16). Just like the XM8, wish we actually had this thing. Edit: I just remembered that the missile XM29 was laser guided, not lock-on. There's two "sight components" that allow lock-on via first-person aiming.
The reason neither the XM8 or XM29 were adopted is because they are over-engineered and too complex for mass adoption. The army has a pretty strict policy when it comes to new infantry weapons. That policy being that the weapon has to be simple enough that someone with a roughly 3rd grade level of education can be taught to operate and maintain it. Neither the XM8 or XM29 met that requirement. The XM8 also had a host of other issues that made it completely unsuitable for mass adoption.
@Quickdrawingartist yea you can zap a wall with a laser then increase the explosion by a foot to detonate a bit behind the wall you ranged. Was really surprised at the detail in a 25 year old game.
I remember growing up and BF4 had XM25 as a piece of equipment, and one of the unlocks was darts. Kinda funny to imagine that they’d ever use that without getting taken to court in real life. I thought that there was even a Military Channel documentary about future weapons and I thought there was talks about a feature that a grenade launcher could penetrate through cover and then explode on the other side, similar to how this device could explode after passing through a window or door. Let’s not forget it’s futuristic friend the CornerShot. If anything, @TheFatElectrician please do one on that one.
I remember that History Channel thing. I think it was literally the show Future Weapons. And I'm pretty sure that episode also went over the Ma Deuce version of this thing that basically was a receiver and barrel swap that turned a .50 cal into a 25mm version of the Mk19
Fun fact this gun was in james bond nightfire the game way back. It had altering fire modes for the grenade and and assault rifle and its scope highlighted enemies
What's really weird is seeing this experimental weapon show up in so many videogames of the time. Scrolling through the comments I've seen a handful of games mentioned and I also remember using it in Soldier of Fortune II. It was supposed to be THE endgame weapon. You would think that a weapon that never even got put into service wouldn't be public knowledge to the point that developers could be putting it in their games.
@@user-gs7rv8ld2y such as the director thinging he was mocking fascism by having an all volunteer force which is the opposite of a facistic practice? Fitting since he didnt even finish reading the book. Very fitting. Almost as fitting as a comment that doesnt seem to understand the movie either. Honestly not sure if you're riding the struggle bus or are making super meta commentary about the director.
@@user-gs7rv8ld2y you have one the trophy for the LOWEST IQ of them all what address do i send this VERY smooth brain trophy too, can you remember that ? your address? some of the best war films are not based on TRUE events have you herd of Full Metal Jacket like the best recruitment tools of the time they let you decide, because ALL wars suck just try to choose your favorite lost cause and apply yourself FULLY for maximum experience YOU lose the war HARVEST the good times, look good surviving it AND you might be able to love the experience!
To be fair, Canadians showed the americans how to do warcrimes in WWI. My favourite is canadians throwing cans of food into a german trench a few days in a row and then on the third day they threw food and couple seconds later grenades in the german trench.
Having seen very graphic and brutal footage of whats going on in Ukraine, I now firmly believe that there are no war crimes unless you lose the war and even then, you can buy your way out of trouble like Japan did by handing over certain unethical medical research results.
Yeah watching those drones drop grenades on pleading soldiers. Regardless of what side they're on it's pretty sad to see and it's weird to see some people react to those videos with such glee...
Imagine how much worse it would be if there were no restrictions around war crimes then. Just because war is horrific in it's current state doesn't mean that it can't be more horrific.
I spent 22 years in the USMC. I was out 5 years before I realized just how much money we wasted on a daily basis. I mean, it was a common topic of conversation. But we were focused on our day to day. The amount of crap I had to find when I retired was simply amazing. A good 30% was never used. I know it wasn't used because it was in my attic still in the original packaging. And I had a lot of stuff it appears I was never issued.
My realization came when I was PMCSing a Stryker and we were checking the CROWS. The dinky little chain snapped that holds the pin to mount a .50 cal to it. We went and got the civilian contractor that worked for the battalion motor pool and he came to take a look. While he was looking at it, he said, good thing you guys actually did your checks and noticed this, these pins are $1200 each to replace if you lose them. We were shocked because it was just a standard metal pin, maybe 3/8 inch thick and 6 inches long, that was maybe $20 to make. He then told us that legally, the military isn’t allowed to replace them with any parts not from the manufacturer because that’s how military contracts work. I was oblivious to this before hand. It’s just such a blatant waste of resources. After that I started noticing a lot more waste all over the place. If they stood up an agency to audit and eliminate waste in the military, it would cost millions and save billions.
@@dkel4341 I mean thats essentially what the GAO (government accountability office ) is supposed to do, but like any other government entity they dont lol.
@@dkel4341 Going to have call bad memory and more like $120 dollars. ACOGs cost 1400ish and plenty of mechanical devices that are around similar cost. little stuff costing 5x for a specialized part+government contract? Oh, yes. Happens in the civilian world too, about 3.5x for a specialized part.
@@mojothemigo Motorcycle manufacturers are especially bad with this. Some dude ran the numbers, and ordering every part for a Honda Goldwing is 5x the cost of the Goldwing MSRP.
You really outdid yourself here sir, from the video thumbnail to the contents, I was laughing the entire time while also getting edumacated. You're the man.
Could you possibly cover the story behind the Accuracy International Precision Marksman (the predecessor to the Arctic Warfare)? Some classic “two Brits in a shed” shenanigans, winning a sniper trial they didn’t expect to win, the contracted factory that fucked up a bunch of the specs and forced Accuracy International to say, “Fuck it we’ll do it ourselves,” and how the rifle basically lowered the skill floor on sniping so the whole sniper program had to be reworked because the Precision Marksman was that fucking badass. I know other channels have covered the story, but the way you tell stories is extremely entertaining and digestible, and I’d imagine you’d have a lot of fun.
People mistake '2 blokes in a shed' as being a pisstake throwaway joke, when in reality the shed is very real, and easily underestimated starting point of commonwealth inventiveness/industry. That shed is but a beautiful blank canvas for the absolute auteur to fill with their wildest dream tools (see Adam Savage's workshop for a contemporary example, or even my garage) to let their ego and absolute dedication to craft run wild. The shed is but simple real-estate with a roof. It is the madlads within that determine its greatness. See the story of how Britain solved the longitude problem via a fucking woodworker with an eye for precision and detail being left to do as his hand and eyes found with the right tools. See similar references to 'Czechnology' for more stuff in a similar vein. Thing is, a shed can be a fucking precision parts mecca because old (but perfectly precise and calibrated) machining hardware is easier to find in a country that made a shitload of it for nearly 200 years, and you've got a bunch of blokes who have the needed attention-to-detail and egos, and extra time on the weekends thanks to their earlier compatriots in history bleeding for those divinely-ordained rights to fuck around with heavy machinery in your off time. Hence how 'Garagista' teams popped up in F1. And won. Multiple times. And how many wacky but practically useful and well-priced ideas still keep coming out of them.
8:00 - This made me think of a SF story, whose name I cannot remember, where one side kept making more and more advanced weapons with more and more problems while the other side kept cranking out reliable old-school weapons. The final sentence was something like "We lost the war due to the superiority of our weapons."
@@imnohbodygood memory! Clarke based it on the futuristic super weapons the Germans never quite had in production in WW II, but you guys probably know that.
Woke up with a hangover, saw this and realized that the OICW was created by a designer who got woken up to a hangover and asked to make a new gun. "F*ck it, just make everything explode, leave me the f*ck alone."
I love the part about spending 300 million on weapons research to come up with a more accurate rifle to replace the M16 just to decide to throw a scope on the M16 to make it more accurate. Y’all remember that story next time someone says, “You don’t need a scope, you just need to train more.” Training is always good, but imagine someone saying, “You don’t need a double action revolver, you need a single action and more training.”
@@tjlastname5192 To be fair, the guy with the double action guy didn't actually kill the single action guy with the first shot because that trigger pull is a bitch, lmao.
@@CallanElliottNo, he got him with a “slap the hammer” trick shot! Because he knew he’d get more of whatever the 19th century equivalent of subscribers was from that, 😂.
Feel like we are close to some rifle company reading about bolters in 40k and trying to recreate that for the US military, which would be fucking awesome.
Brother, this is just one of those bolters people on Necromunda downsize for the arbites and sisters to use. There’s a soldier above who claims to have tested one and they say it was unwieldy and bruising to use. It shoots 25 mm grenade/bullets. It’s difficult for People Other than Marines (POMs) to effectively deploy. The only way we are getting closer is if gyrojets make a comeback. This is a bolter and I vote we go the other direction and give a battalion Israeli exo-suits and tren acetate. Hell, we already have the branch to do it. If it’s in space, Geneva probably doesn’t count, right?
@@Commodore22345 So one thing i can say about bolters is they are a two stage projectile. A chemical cartridge propels the rocket grenade out of the barrel and when out of the barrel the second stage ignites and accelerates it even more. the Gyro jet ammunition was a single stage of which was the rocket propulsion which both spun up the projectile and accelerated it. Bolters are rifled and already spun the projectile they fired for more effect.
So, I looked on reddit, apparently the 400g limit came from a St Petersburg declaration or somesuch, of which the US wasn't a cosignatory. Along with that, the 25mm smart grenade conveys significant military advantage, and actually reduces environmental damage and suffering (tiny grenade vs airstrike). And the 40mm grenade is less than 400g but everybody uses those...
As a man in Charleston, I want to know why hitting auto pilot and hoping it doesn't hit people was his option rather than landing in the damned infield of the base, because outside of where the plane landed, there are a lot of people in that direction
I remember reading about the trials right after they closed the program. I thought the xm8 would be cool af. Especially with the little eye piece that allowed you to shoot it around corners.
And now the OICW only exists in certain videogames from the early 2000's. Also, this reminds me, didn't the AA-12 automatic shotgun also have an explosive round? Basically a 12-gauge fragmentation grenade round
It's legality is debatable. It's a gray area at best. The Geneva convention spoke specifically of the dum dum bullets that exploded on contact or on contact with a delayed fuse, specifically with the intent of maming / dismemberment, such that it goes beyond taking them out of the fight and into causing them much unnecessary pain and suffering.
You could become a running war crime in COD MW3 by setting the rangefinder of the XM-25 to a couple feet and just sprinting at enemies, basically creating an explosive shotgun
I love how you will call everyone on anything when it's BS. So much of the dialog today has crazy filters on and will ignore the detail that hurts their argument while promoting the same detail that helps. Please keep up the good work.
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us along with you on your adventure through history
I always love Starship Trooper references because it basically saying here's what the world would be if you handed the steering wheel to the USMC. Fucking movie literally has a Dan Daly quote as it's most memorable line
and the fact the us military was to stupid at the the time to realize it was a parody of themselves, and to top it off they thought it was so cool they wanted the guns to look like the movie. like guys starship troopers is mocking yall
@@spooks196 brother this was not a case of that. and yes i know marines they have huge egos and soft feelings, one fought me in a bar before at school because i told him no to joining my pool game they arent to bright. and you cleary need to rewatch starship troopers the whole point is that the bugs arent the bad ones here
I remember reading about the OICW in a popular mechanics way back in the 90s. I was a kid then and I remember thinking how cool it was. Then I forgot all about it. Nice to know what happened to it.
RE XM-25 I thought I was going insane during that time seeing opinions flip on that, the Geneva angle and trying to stealth nix it makes so much sense! I still think its cool...but I can see it being cooler with more modern lighter-weight tech into it (See the M5's optic instead of that telescope on the XM 25) and bump up the weight of the round to make Geneva happy/give it some more oomph as a tradeoff for the increased weight of the round. EDIT: Wellll maybe not in regards to weight, I vastly underestimated 400g when I first wrote this, I accept the L. Also It was amazing in NG+ Metal Gear Solid 4, works pretty much like you explained it.
Check Out Ground News At
ground.news/FatElectrician
Gimme some video ideas for what you wanna see next!
Hello
I am so glad I stumbled on your channel during the summer for one of your war stories. Binged all your videos and now I have to wait like everyone else!
Nick can you please do a story on Accuracy Arms and the creation of the green meanie? I think you'd make the story even funnier. 🤣😂🤣
U should talk about that one time when America invaded Panama
James E. Williams, one hell of a story behind that sailor
As a Canadian we generally dislike the Geneva convention because the first Geneva convention was just them slapping our knuckles with a ruler saying we can't stab someone and shoot them
"No Canada you cant do that."
What about this?
"No"
This?
"No not that either wtf"
And how about this?
"How the fuck are you coming up with this."
This?
"Honestly just. Write it all down and send it to us at this point."
And thus, the geneva convention was born.
@@MeowthixI just imagine this going on for like months until some general just gets fed up and tell them just to make the Geneva convention
Then your government decided to try to take your guns away.
We sleep on our friendly hat, truth yall savage.
Seriously, it's like the Geneva convention people don't realize that war involves *killing people.*
DOD: "Now that after millions of dollars and nearly a decade we've decided to go with the m16 but shorter, what the hell do we do with all these prototype rifles we've made?"
Sci-fi movie/tv show studios: "We'll take them"
DOD: "You sure? they're really weird lookin-"
Studios: *slams large briefcase of money on table* "I SAID WE'LL TAKE THEM"
Pretty much
hahahah i love it
Other way around! Military branches have a "Hollywood Liaison Office" where they pay Hollywood to use the right equipment _properly._ God only knows much the Air Force paid for Stargate.
DOD: Do not cast Alec Baldwin and we got a deal!
Jokes aside the estimate is by far the sexiest rifle ever made.
Never a war crime the first time. Or if your side wins.
Poundsigntruestory 😎😎😎
Truth
Or you are canada
@@ouvriermacane5861 LOL. Canada's not going to live that one down for quite a while.
oy vey
Soldier: “Target In Sight, Awaiting Orders To Engage Hostiles”
Rifle Chirps: “Your Tamagotchi Is Hungry, Try Feeding Her”
🗣️
🤣
That's effing hilarious 😂😂
LMAO
If it's digital and has a screen, Doom will eventually be ported to it...
"order came in, they want an assault rifle with an underslung grenade launcher"
"Grenade launcher with an undersling rifle. Got it"
Those dang Germans 😂
It's harder to be mad at the US government when it goes full send mode sometimes. There's a certain charm to it. Like when my uncle Cletus shotguns a beer and jumps off the roof naked in front of the whole family at Thanksgiving.
Lmfao
Why is everyone named Cletus?!
@@ntfoperative9432not everyone only uncles
I do not understand when he said that about the US and microchips though - US is one the countries that produce most microchips in the world.
@@super_best_clips_xoxo We invent and develop them, but we outsource the manufacturing to Taiwan.
My Uncle carried the M79 in Vietnam. They MAY have accidentally a few times shot enemies directly with HE rounds. There was no evidence left to say whether it exploded inside or outside the target.
The rules exist to keep warfare civilized. But, anyway, as long as it's over 400 grams, it's fine.
@@MrMagnaniman Wikipedia/google says 40mm grenades are not over 400 grams. More like 250.
Meh, it's all fertilizer at that point.
@@aimer0 I was just taking his word for it, since he put it in the video. More research has shown that the 400gram limit was listed by the St. Petersburg Declaration of 1868, but the U.S. is not a signatory of that.
Other prohibitions that might apply to this weapon are rather vague, banning weapons that "cause unnecessary suffering." Specific laws, of course, are undesirable because one's hypocrisy becomes more evident when selectively enforcing them.
@@MrMagnaniman The US has a tendency to mostly follow arms treaties without actually signing onto them. It keeps our options open. The only ones we have really signed recently are those we negotiate with direct adversaries, which usually have a time limit on them.
The only problem I got from this at the end was:
"The bomb was too small to be considered ordinance."
Well there's a simple solution to that.
I agree. Do what the yanks do best and make it bigger for absolutely no reason.
Work towards 401 gram ammo.
@@User-kq3odwhy make it bigger? Just add a tungsten tip......
I was thinking exactly the same thing, but figured I'd check the comments first. The solution is just to give it to a Texas contractor to finish the development.
@@User-kq3od lol
Another thing to keep in mind, info via my sailor daughter, the radios in the jet they lost can't connect to radios of other military aircraft in the area because they function on different frequencies. The pilot literally had to knock on the door of the house in whose backyard he landed in, and call the civilian 911 dispatcher to report the crash.
Can confirm. I heard a recording of the 911 call. Absolutely brilliant.
@GUNNER67akaKelt she heard it too. She an AO with a helicopter squadron, and they got to listen to it. Just her describing the call had me laughing so hard I was crying.
Yeah, that's basically how all radios work. If you have an AM radio and you try to talk to an FM radio (HF to VHF), you'll achieve nothing. The fact that there wasn't anyone around with an emergency radio set up is a failure on the planners but I suspect it's because the radio that is in the ejection kit is probably only programmed and comsec'd when they go on deployments
@@davidyoungquist6074 Yeah the dispatcher was pretty dense.
If only someone... Anyone... Could have seen this situation coming.
7:57
“Paterson fire a warning shot.”
“Sir this is an m32 rotary grenade launcher”
“Potato potato, fire it”
real
Exactly what I thought
A Russian Badger reference
Well, we're using that guy as a warning
@@DaryanPrescottthat is a priceless answer. Much respect sir
“Operation give everybody a grenade launcher.” Is probably the most accurate description of the OICW program
damn usa getting bolters to everyone.
@@tytothetoetaker9788Bolters with a underbarreled lasgun.
Zach Hazard is gonna be happy. Or pissed he no longer is military and NOW they wanna give all of them grenade launchers.
@@Khornecussion That's debatable. Zach loves grenade launchers but is it worth carrying a weapon twice the weight of M16 and M203?
"Operation Oprah"
I mean, tracers aren’t technically allowed because they “have a chance to ignite enemy combatants” but as far as I know we still use them in SAWs and other vehicle mounted machine guns because their purpose is a support weapon and they aren’t intended to directly kill the enemy but rather pin them down for riflemen
As someone who actually tested the XM-29. It was actually freaking awesome. The biggest complaint was it was very bulky.
Yeah tends to happen when you put a smart grenade launcher on your gun. I'm assuming that the smart grenade launcher is detachable so you can use just the rifle in buildings.
@@franklinclinton3211 what? It's a smart grenade launcher with a gun put on it.
Why didn't anybody complain about it being a war crime?
@@kittydaddy2023 people are always complaining that things are war crimes. even me.
@@kittydaddy2023I'm sure some law major CO who happened to remember reading about that clause at some point in his life witnessed one of these being tested, did some ethics calculus, and decided it was not worth his retirement pension to rock the boat.
"A marine jumped in my trench and stabbed me with a piece of luggage". 😂 sounds accurate. That had me dying.
AS long as it was loaded with blue crayons, I approve. We all know they taste best!
lost it exactly at this moment.
A crayon eater hasn’t lunged a 20lb weapon with bayonet into the after life since iwojima
😂😂😂
Funny as hell this dude cracks my tf up
I'm always shocked when someone investigates themselves and finds themselves not guilty. Truly who could see that happening.
What the hell is a conflict of interest anyway?
🤷
Welcome to the Military Industrial Complex. Then when myself and thousands of others deployed we never got access to most of the shit in our inventory due to the bullshit ROE and having to fight with our hands tied.
Not me and I'm a government auditor.
Innocent and guilty are fictional things.
@@bunk95 So is value. Anyone who thinks it's subjective is deluded.
I was one of the soldiers who tested this weapon in 1996. It was fitted with a 20mm that had two settings (1. Direct impact 2. Timed delay). We set the delay to explode at a set range over walls, in windows, or foxholes. It was also meant to pierce light armor and explode after penetration.
Girlfriends don't like detonation, too soon after penetration.
Men are genetically programmed to explode after penetration.
Ok, my brain only computes inches and pounds… so I had to look up 400g, and that’s about .88 pounds. Then I thought, there’s no way a standard 40mm grenade weighs that much, so I looked that up also (239g total, 186g projectile). That being the case, how is the 40mm grenade we know and love ok, but it’s younger (and smarter) 25mm brother isn’t. 🤷🏻♂️
40mm explodes on impact making it ordinance. The smart grenades could be programed to explode inside the body of a combatant. Which is the illegal part of
I'm surprised the 40mm weighs less tbh.
The line between the two is drawn with a hair and a lot of bureaucratic sweat. Basically it’ll only be enforced by anyone who gives a damn and/or wins the next major conflict.
@@the_fat_electrician this is a prime example of why these rules are stupid `, people gonna get exploded Eitherway. Also not like everyone will (and has) thrown out all these rules when stuff gets real.
So…. Make it bigger?
The XM-25 Punisher was apparently an immediate fight stopper in Afghanistan. It was in very limited use, but I remember reading articles that as soon as the XM-25 opened up, the fight was over.
Too bad the Inkunzi PAW didn't succeed, for largely the same legal reasons in South Africa. But it was a much cheaper alternative to the XM25, and perhaps more useful. FW has a great video on it. Truly a weapon every squad needs.
@@BeingFireRetardantthe inkunzi paw has had a few production runs, but all for export market.
A smart auto 25gernade launcher is a great idea for a squad weapon.
Yeah, it seems really strange that they cannot find some legal workaround for a 20 to 25mm weapon, given how seemingly arbitrary the mandates are.
Largely because an infantry weapon of less than 20lbs, in each fireteam or squad, that is ancillary to an LMG, that offers direct fire payload delivery of far more efficacy than a bullet seems really logical.
For VBIED's, suppression of enemy defensive positions, saturation of a trenchline, removing snipers, disabling light skin vehicles, etc. Especially one like the PAW, which is essentially a giant big bore revolver, stupid simple to operate with no need for expensive programable fuzes, that has remarkably flat trajectory out to a thousand yards, that carries a burst payload capable of eliminating multiple enemies in one shot.
A weapon like that eliminates the need for risking additional assets and heavier weapons to subdue a target via airstrike, mortars, or artillery simply by nature of it being man portable, and organic within the squad. With the additional legal benefit of significant reduction in collateral damage due to the precise nature of being able to immediately dump two rounds into a second story window at 500yds.
Something like the PAW seems to be the actual future of infantry small arms because of these reasons, IMHO...
lmao talking about afghanistan, man come back when you fight china or something nobody cares for some insurgents you werent able to beat
You should do one on Audie Murphy
Basically won EVERY medal at the time, played himself in the movie about himself that had to downplay the badassness for believability, and might be the originator of 'Drive this tank close so I can stab them with my sword'
Also, shoutout to Rodger Young, who earned a Medal of Honor and was honored in Starship Troopers, yet when I did a report on him for school was absent from 5 different books about Medal of Honor recipients.
Audi Murphy also has his own sabaton song
@@georgewagner1564 That's how you know you're a legend.
I second both these. Audie Murphy and Rodger Young both deserve their own video. And I gotta throw in Lafayette G Poole because I’m a Tanker.
You may want to look at when he got his Medal Of Honor, relative to when the book were produced...
The books may have come out prior to his Medal Of Honor...
"A Marine stabbed me with a piece of luggage.". I laughed so hard at this line, I was whizzing.
I'm still laughing... everytime I read it or think about it. 😂🤣
Embarrassing way to go tbh
You should do a video on Desmond Doss. On one hand, yes, they made a movie about him (hacksaw ridge), but on the other hand, movie producers had to nerf his real life actions for the script because they had been deemed to "unbelievable" for movie audiences.
Happened in The Admiral: Roaring Currents, a movie about Yi Sun-sin. Keep in mind the movie itself is a straight-up propaganda piece, so the fact they tried to play down the feats he pulled off in the battle the movie shows is something (that and they were shoehorning in giving the Korean civilians something to do in the narrative cause... propaganda for Korean public to be inspired by). But you learn about his entire career from the start to his death and he had legendary skill. It really the funny thing about history is you find people who do things so amazing that they could or have had a movie made about them, but often do stuff so amazing the movie nerfs them cause it just seems TOO amazing.
I met Desmond Doss once before he passed. Really awesome and humble guy.
similar with audie murphy except he was the one telling them to scale it back because nobody would believe it
Same with Audie Murphy
Fun fact: the United States never signed any treaties or agreements that would specifically prohibit the use of expanding or exploding ammunition. The U.S. did not agree to IV-3 of the Hague Convention of 1899, and wasn’t even invited to the convention for the Declaration of Saint Petersburg of 1868. While the U.S. did ratify IV-23 of the Hague Convention of 1907, IV-23 does not prohibit the use of expanding or exploding ammunition by name, only that, “…it is especially forbidden to employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering.” Additionally, neither Geneva Convention prohibits the use of expanding or exploding ammunition.
And that’s why the U.S. military gets to use hollow-point bullets, such as the M1153 Special Purpose ammunition for the M17, which is a jacketed hollow-point cartridge.
This means that the XM-29 technically isn’t a war crime. Well, for the U.S., anyway. It also stops being a war crime for anyone fighting a war that the U.S. happens to enter (IV-3 of the Hague Convention of 1899 is only binding in a war between contracting parties, and ceases to be so when any non-contracting power joins one of the belligerents in said war between contracting parties, such as when the U.S. entered World War I).
Thats a scary real world implication.
@@GreasyBeasty
War’s a scary thing. Isn’t smart to think it’s anything but.
@@TheGhostInThePhoto not the war part the Hague and America part.
@@GreasyBeasty
That comes part and parcel with war. War is fought with weapons, and international regulations on the use of a given weapon are dependent on nations binding themselves with said regulations. America decided that expanding and exploding ammunition was a worthwhile weapon, and decided not to ratify IV-3.
That is what I mean by “war is scary”. War isn’t just the fighting on the battlefield. It’s the logistics. It’s the industry. It’s the diplomacy and negotiations. It’s the stupid political bullshit and bureaucratic nonsense. All it takes for an international agreement to stop working is for one party to disagree.
Of course, America can’t very well use such weapons without expecting anyone else to. As mentioned, the moment America enters a war, all belligerents are freed from the restrictions of IV-3, and will likely break out the expanding ammunition like they did in WWI.
The darkly amusing thing about the original Saint Petersburg Declaration was that the INTENT was to ban the mildly lethal weapons that would only cause the poor plebs to die painfully over and extended period.
Blowing them into a fine paste with a massive weapon was considered not only perfectly fine, but desirable.
Hence the INTENT was to ensure that only weapons capably of absolutely killing your enemy were used in combat... but only between nations that had signed the Declaration.
So, short answer? Not a war crime... unless you are fighting Wurttemberg or Bavaria.
In my 12 years as a soldier, a "warning shot" was never something i was trained for...
I was under the impression that a warning shot was the first body dropping to the ground. It’s a warning shot for the other guys walking around him.
@@OrtadragoonX TRUE STORY
Non-military here - isn’t a warning shot part of vehicle interdiction at a checkpoint? Thought that was part of the escalation of force for that specific purpose.
@habloespwnol2117 I'm not going to say yes or no absolutely. What i will say is that it was never part of any training i received. But i was a combat engineer, not an MP. Clearing someone through a checkpoint is an actual part of their job. But the thing is, every round you fire is your responsibility. A firefight in an urban area is one thing, lots of lead in the air. But you cut one loose as a warning, yeah, you might want to be hyperaware of what's downrange. That's a challenge at a checkpoint.
If it's me, and you give me a reason to go loud, we're past warning shots. You're fucked.
Other's experience may vary.
@@Damocles54 ty for the response! 👍🏻
Some guns have an under-slung grenade launcher. This GRENADE LAUNCHER has an under-slung gun
I remember seeing this thing at 'take your child to work day' growing up, back when it was first being developed. It was super cool because they were prototyping the optics housing using very early SLA printing. Straight up sci-fi stuff in the 90's.
Fun fact, the fuses in those grenades weren't that smart. All they do is count how many times the round spins. The launcher sets it to go off after X spins, it detonates at X range.
That's pretty smart for a fuse. Most fuses can't count at all
i mean most most marines can't even count so i mean it's fucking wizardry
Cool beans.
When I went to my dads take your kid to work day I got to sit behind the wheel of the garbage truck.
@@bluewater454 those things are almost as dangerous as a grenade launcher
@@bluewater454 Based, Garbage Trucks are as cool as the OICW, tbh.
The M203 was intended to give the grenadier a more active role in combat instead of the rest of the squad/platoon fighting until time to chunk grenades farther downrange than they can be thrown.
i wouldnt call it bullet either just for content. the reason it fot cancelled because its impractical
Upgrade chunk to yeet for kiddies
I hadn't realized the XM25 ever actually saw combat, much less that it was ever effective. I was really wondering why the thing got canned. Then you explained...
Yeah, that would do it.
Shoulda put the fuse tech on a 40mm sized grenade. More boom, and frag.
I carried one in 2011-2012, heavy and awkward. Worked good, until they didn’t. They stopped programming the rounds and would just shoot duds. Good concept, but didn’t hold up in combat environment.
Oh they def did. Was reading about how much they were loved back then
Naw, the warcrime thing was a weird attempt at delaying by HK, who being from Germany (a state that didn't exist when the St. Petersburg Declaration, which _only applies to wars between those who signed it_ , was signed) selling to America (a state that didn't sign the Declaration) should have no issues with the weapon. It was also unclear why it had suddenly become an issue when HK had been working on small explosive rounds with the US for about thirty years at that point.
@@CruelestChris Also.. it looks like the Hague convention covers expanding bullets not exploding.
The XM-29 scope was cutting edge and pretty OP but now the average civilian can get 90% of that capability, with probably better resolution from Pard for $4k. Weight-wise, my Super Gucci "Future Warfare Rifle/SPR/DMR" 6 ARC build weighs around a ridiculous 16lbs even with a Carbon fiber barrel and JP low mass internals.
"We know we can't put explosive in a bullet. But surely we can put a bullet around explosive, right?"
That's literally every modern round lol
Maybe there’s an attachment to fire explosives wrapped in pagers?
What about the failed rocket pistol or whatever it was called. It shot explosive rounds very inaccurately if I remember correctly.
@@AlmightyPooFlingerVI Gyrojet!
@@PetesGuide yup! That's the one. Thank you. Dunno how I forgot it's name. It's so simple.haha
The Toro zero turn fighter jets part got me 🤣🤣
I gotcha early lol
Hecks you doin here lol.
i wish i have your humor junk
I wish I had his GF.
Toro for the win!
I love that the rifle is the underbarrel attachment😂😂
Truly a grunts'n'crafts masterpiece! Only thing missing is one of those elastic shell holders for shotguns, sized for crayons, so the marines can bring their field rations with them on their gun
That is offensive! We use the pockets on our cammies to hold our Nummies
"A Marine jumped into my trench and stabbed me with a piece of luggage" Damn near spat out my beer, wasn't expecting that XD
The crazy thing is I graduated HS in 03 thinking this thing was pure fiction. It appeared in at least two of the Seal Team Seven book series, the LAST two of which were published in May of 2004 and 2005, respectively.
XM 25, basically same thing with a smaller grenade was deployed and rejected. The rangers given it refused to use it after just a couple operations. Basically said too heavy, too little ammo, and not worth swapping an M4 for when you can just put a UBGL on an M4 anyway.
I went to the Army Research Lab in Maryland as a senior in high school. National Science Fair side quest. I remember the future soldier program, the programmable burst grenades, heads-up displays and battle connectivity... 5 types of puck shaped sensors you could toss out and gather data with -- sonic, magnetic, heat, etc. (I forget all of them). It was an impressive feat... the research scientists were most concerned with making new types of batteries, from what I noticed.
That is actually insanely heavy. Even old era swords weighed FAR less than that. Some of the largest ones used weren't really ever over 8 Lb's. Imagine trying to carry and shoot something twice that weight. Might not be as difficult as swinging the thing around actively but that's still gonna tire people out.
I mean it IS, but it was still lighter than a M249.
Now imagine putting a dang bayonet on it to try and do bayonet drills. Better off using it like a war hammer
M249 saw is 16lbs unloaded, 18-19 lbs loaded. M240b is 27lbs. Both were regularly carried and fired. There’s a reason the infantry picks the cornfed sons-o-bitches to be machine gunners.
OZ = Lbs and Lbs equal pain
"even old era swords" WHAT? Bro swords are light. The M16 weighs more than a great sword.
Outlawing explosive bullets seems like a really weird entry in the Geneva convention at a glance. My guess is that the original intent was to protect medical personnel from unexploded ordinance inside a victim. Doctors might be hesitate to operate on a man with an unexploded grenade in his leg.
Nah it was basically “oh my they might use it on our guys hey everyone let’s not use these things” it’s basically why anything that’s illegal is illegal that’s why when gas was used in WW1 everyone starting gas
That Grey's Anatomy episode comes to mind.
IIRC it was part of the "no hollow points" rules on the grounds of "you've already shot the guy, at least give him a chance to sit out the rest of the war in rehab."
Funny how America constantly violates the Geneva convention. Worst part is we use stuff explicitly outlawed against combatants against our own people....i.e tear gas,hollow point rounds just to start with and both of those are actually EXPLICITLY stated as being banned in war yet we use them against our own people in situations not really warranting it like against peaceful protesters.
Laws are fictional.
My unit was part of the testing the standalone grenade launcher while in Afghanistan. It was awesome. Loved it. Not turning myself in.
The 400g part comes from the Saint Petersburg Declaration of 1868 and only applies to countries which signed it (US wasn't invited to the party) and then was superseded by the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907 which do allow for explosive rounds under certain circumstances. Which is why we have fun toys like the Mk 211, fortunately for the bad guys it's not anti-personnel it's anti-material, unfortunately for the bad guys the rifle they're holding is material
Pretty sure the USA didn't sign that part of the Hague conventions, anyway. The German OEM H&K was the one babbling about this legality topic, which is why the USA simply stopped the production line and now the Army is sitting on the USA-owned IP. It will likely make a comeback in some form eventually, and presumably with rounds that aren't handmade and have better QA.
Oh yeah, its incredible how someone can start to "babble" about legality when its so darn effective at killing!
Those windowlickers and their bullshit moral compass.@@Reticuli
@@Reticuli
Yeah, but Germany didn't sign it either since it didn't exist.
@@Reticuli I'm pretty sure a lot of this stuff the US follows on principle but doesn't sign a lot of these just to leave the door open if the need arises, which is fair enough honestly.
I saw a really interesting story about the defense of Castle Itter. It's got Fat Electrician written all over it. The time a US tank crew, some Wehrmacht Soldiers and a Waffen SS Officer united in defending French VIP prisoners against an attacking force of Panzergrenadiers.
If I recall it was an advance of SS grenadiers specifically
Jenny at the gates, as the SS open fire
There´s no time to waste, the final battle has begun
After the downfall, a castle besieged
Facing the Nazis awaiting relief
Gangl and Lee and their men set the prisoners free
An it’s the end of the line of the final journey
Enemies leaving the past
And it’s American troops and the German army
Joining together at last
that story has been covered to death by other channels and its really american focused at all therefore fat electrician has no point to cover it
its even weirder
it was
An american tanker force
1 french Tennis champion, a platoon of Nazi troopers
Also the Captive french leadership
Against a Shit ton of Waffen SS.
@@ettibbet5493 Facing the Nazis awaiting relief,
Gangl and Lee and their men set the prisoners free!
"It's never a war crime the first time"
"Geneva convention,more like Geneva suggestion."
"It's not a sin if you gonna win"
"Prohibited? Funny way to say Powerful."
"Grenades rhyme with parades.That's how you know it's effective."
"If war is a game well then America wants a highly overpowere-COMFORTABLE... Gaming chair..."
Also, war crimes rhymes with good times
Ain't a pain if there's no one left to complain.
Reading this in Zapp Brannigan's voice & cadence works all too well.
Geneva? Never heard of her!
That last ones great
"The boys are calling it the baloney mist maker 5000"!! X ) fkn hilarious
If you want weapons from Starship Troopers, you'd be better served by the book.
Powered armor that lets you leap small buildings in a single bound, a Y-rack popping grenades left and right every time you touch down and just for snorts and giggles, a "hand flamer".
Thank you Robert A. Heinlein, USNC Class of 1929
Makes me wonder what Heinlein would have thought of Mandalorians from Star Wars. Because while their gear isn't quite Starship Troopers powered armour, they definitely are close in how much ordinance and armaments they tend to carry.
@@generalilbis He was an engineer, I believe he'd be impressed.
@@ninjabearpress2574impressed by fiction?
@@danielisarnon1280engineers love fiction, many have a life wish of making that fiction reality.
@@danielisarnon1280 Heinlein was an engineer, just about everything in his stories could be built.
Fun Fact: Some of Heinlein's patents are still classified top secret by the Department of Defense.
I went to basic in 2003. I remember seeing random pictures and hearing rumors about it. We were all making fun of it without really knowing what we were even talking about. Most of us had never held a service rifle before basic. I'm really glad we never ended up switching to it.
Same!
The real war crime is making some poor grunt carry that thing in the field.
It actually "only" weighs 14 lb... compared to a decked out M16 at 12 lb thats not too bad
@@deepruc760814% heavier…. plus the ammunition.
@@cjeam9199but you get to commit a war crime against terrorists
@@lovis1188 and then spend 30 or 40 years with knee and back pain
@@cjeam9199who's to say they didn't have that to begin with?
Dude, you are becoming my favorite contemporary military historian. Keep up the great work.
My unit had several XM-25’s in Afghanistan back in 2011-2012. That thing would stop fire fights pretty quickly and was fun as hell to shoot. But it was heavy, bulky and awkward to carry. And we also had to carry our M4 with it while on foot patrol in case something happened.
It was good when it worked, but with all those electronics and sensors it broke constantly. And wouldn’t program the rounds, so it would just lob 25mm duds and we stopped carrying them. They picked them up from us after another unit somewhere else had a grenade detonate in the barrel.
Plus the round were about $1,000 each.
Hahahah that's funny as. and requires Germans to make them makes it even funnier
that's $995 of Union Dues and $5 of actual manufacturing
@@daomingjinmanufacturing time, maybe. I just can't imagine a literal programmable smart fuse that's capable of being fired out of a gun being cheap. Honestly, $1k for something like that seems like a steal, considering that you literally burn what a low-end luxury car costs every time a Javelin leaves the tube.
@@mage3690 even manufacturing for something like is dirt cheap. It's an extremely simple operating circuit by today's standards, so the manufacturer likely used an IC production line that's been proven reliable for decades and returned it's original construction investment back in the 90's, churning the tiny chips out for fractions of a cent per unit. However, the reliability testing process each would be put through would be highly specialized and time consuming, and is likely the excuse the monopoly manufacturer needed to pump the price up from "why are we even bothering?" to "license to print money"
@daomingjin lmao shut it ccp plant
Been obsessed with this thing since i saw one in 007 Nightfire on the GameCube and was wondering why nobody talks about it anymore. The fact that's a literal war crime we committed by accident for almost 10 years explains a lot.
Dont be a sheep
@@jonnhyappleseed7498 I'm at a genuine loss for words at the stupidity of this comment
@@R4zzSp4zz MW3 had the later version that was standalone from the rifle available in the first mission. It was cool.
Have you not heard the phrase it's not a war crime the first time😊
"accident"
"Grenade launchers are a warcrime" LMAO sure guy whatever you say
Colts history of low effort contract responses is great. Not only the "twice the accuracy? How bout shoot twice :)" but when asked for an offensive socom handgun they produced a suppressed 1911
My dad worked on the OICW/OCSW from the early 90's until 2001 on the circuit board design team. A few comments based on what he told me:
- The grenade itself was 100% ATK and the rifle portion 100% HK.
- ATK designed the grenade portion of the OICW to be 25mm from the start, same round required by OCSW. DoD wanted the 20mm round for OICW and ATK had to work around that requirement.
- They never fit enough explosive in the 20mm round to reach the lethality they were after with the circuit board required for programmable burst.
- Working with HK was a nightmare.
- Circuit board sourcing was never an issue. The US still had sufficient production capabilities in the late 90's to manufacture them domestically.
- The 25mm round had many more capabilities than the DoD was interested in at the time, specifically programming when the grenade would explode.
- The project was far from a failure. The R&D that went into the OICW grenade portion resulted in the programmable rounds use on the 25mm and 30mm Bushmaster cannons.
There is no such thing as wasted research. Oh, sure, it's a great place to hide pork and grift , but the research itself is always worth, no matter what subject.
"We know not which our works our Lord will allow to bear fruit." (Or Random Chance, per your beliefs.)
Science is 90% failure
“I didn't fail the test, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong.”
― Benjamin Franklin
Scope on this thing definitely laid the groundwork for the new vortex sight XM7 too
I've got a book that I just call my Gun Bible, it's an encyclopedia of firearms from the first development up until I think 2016 and it has this gun, the ACR, and a bunch of those other weird "future weapons" and I'm so glad I got to hear you describe these guns instead of just having to read about them
Same here mine is called "Future Weapons" by Kevin Dockery, it goes from early cold-war up to about 2010-12.
@@Whiteknight-xg2pq mine goes from the boom stick in medieval times up to 2016/2017, it's badass, I'll have to find it again to tell you the title
@@kamina7347could you gimme the title/author or maybe the number on the barcode? Or if barterings your thing, I'll fight my apprentice in surprise single combat right now for it? Lol but seriously. I'll drown him in a shallow puddle of water if I have to lol
@@jetcox6760 i gotta get home from work to get the title but when that happens I'll let y'all know what it is
@@kamina7347I'm curious as well. I replied so I get notified of comment
Simple solution... if we made it a bigger grenade its no longer a war crime.
Sounds about right for the government to waste so much money on something that’s no longer used. I still remember when the rumors were flying about this “future” weapon. I believe I was on my second deployment in 2007. Either way America always finds a way to be more destructive
Well, gotta keep the weapons manufacturers in profits.
I remember seeing it featured in a D20 Modern RPG sourcebook of ultramodern weaponry around 03-04, but there was so much insane boom-candy in those pages it only rated much interest because the description of how it worked took an entire page, whereas other guns took like 1/4 to a 1/3.
@@stoneymahoney9106I remember d20 Modern, aka totally not D&D 3.5e in the modern day Earth.
Stop being pussyes AI controlled stealth drones with hellfire missiles are even way better now than air burst grenades anyways.
As someone who carried the M-16/M-203, the idea of carrying anything heavier or bulkier gives me a backache.
"Hm. Sucks to be you - here's your mortars and a can of mg ammo. Save enough room in your ruck for platoon stores." -corporal punishment
@@lc3853Machine gunner: you guys carry mg rounds?
enjoy the new M7 Spear. 14 pounds rifle and scope without a grenade launcher!
"I think a Marine stabbed me with a piece of luggage." 😂🤣
YES 😂
"So check it out, I was there in my trench right when all I hear is 'Retreat Hell' some fucking psycho jumps in my trench kills my best friend with a suitcase that shoots grenades then stabbed me to death with it while screaming 'CHESTY WOULD BE PROUD."
I know this has been said before on other videos, but wouldn't it be great to be a part of The Fat Electrician's group of friends where you get to hear this level of entertaining story telling even if it is just about "Listen to what my uncle Ed did at Thanksgiving." Never a dull moment, I'm sure.
I remember first seeing "something" of the XM29 in the PlayStation2 titled "Extermination", that fired lock-on missiles instead of the 25mm Airburst grenades. Every other game had it fire grenades, with the game "The Punisher" just being a upgraded "5.56 Assault Rifle" (M16).
Just like the XM8, wish we actually had this thing.
Edit: I just remembered that the missile XM29 was laser guided, not lock-on. There's two "sight components" that allow lock-on via first-person aiming.
The reason neither the XM8 or XM29 were adopted is because they are over-engineered and too complex for mass adoption. The army has a pretty strict policy when it comes to new infantry weapons. That policy being that the weapon has to be simple enough that someone with a roughly 3rd grade level of education can be taught to operate and maintain it. Neither the XM8 or XM29 met that requirement. The XM8 also had a host of other issues that made it completely unsuitable for mass adoption.
Solder of fortune 2 had this gun and you can use the air burst grenade function.
@@CSestp Haven't played it, yet, but neat.
@Quickdrawingartist yea you can zap a wall with a laser then increase the explosion by a foot to detonate a bit behind the wall you ranged. Was really surprised at the detail in a 25 year old game.
Saints Row 2 had either the XM29 or the XM8, both with and without an under barrel grenade launcher.
I remember growing up and BF4 had XM25 as a piece of equipment, and one of the unlocks was darts. Kinda funny to imagine that they’d ever use that without getting taken to court in real life. I thought that there was even a Military Channel documentary about future weapons and I thought there was talks about a feature that a grenade launcher could penetrate through cover and then explode on the other side, similar to how this device could explode after passing through a window or door.
Let’s not forget it’s futuristic friend the CornerShot. If anything, @TheFatElectrician please do one on that one.
I think i have seen several videos on rounds doing this. The smallest i think was a 40mm one that has a trigger fuse for this very scenario.
I remember that History Channel thing. I think it was literally the show Future Weapons. And I'm pretty sure that episode also went over the Ma Deuce version of this thing that basically was a receiver and barrel swap that turned a .50 cal into a 25mm version of the Mk19
Fun fact this gun was in james bond nightfire the game way back. It had altering fire modes for the grenade and and assault rifle and its scope highlighted enemies
Oh man I remember it! Awesome red zoom, was OP lolz
Why does nobody talk about Nightfire?
Man, good memory. Think I had that for game cub.
Thank you, I was trying to remember where I'd seen this before
And timesplitter!
Hk comin in clutch with the "see that guy over there? Remove "over there"" 😂😂
What's really weird is seeing this experimental weapon show up in so many videogames of the time. Scrolling through the comments I've seen a handful of games mentioned and I also remember using it in Soldier of Fortune II. It was supposed to be THE endgame weapon. You would think that a weapon that never even got put into service wouldn't be public knowledge to the point that developers could be putting it in their games.
Soldier of Fortune 2, now that is a throw back. I remember having to lie to my parents about that game just to play it.
And the first Farcry game. And maybe others, but I quit after the second one.
@@dustybunny66 I got a copy from a friend that got a copy from his uncle. My parents really didn't give a shit what I was watching or playing anyway.
Wasn't it in Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter ? I seem to remember using the separate parts in a Call of Duty game too.
The Pancor Jackhammer says hello.
You had me at Starship Troopers, probably the largest recruiting tool ever deployed on the US population.
To being patented as a brainwashing tool proves itself once again.
@@ALovelyBunchOfDragonballz Im doing my part!
IM DOING MY PART!
@@user-gs7rv8ld2y such as the director thinging he was mocking fascism by having an all volunteer force which is the opposite of a facistic practice? Fitting since he didnt even finish reading the book. Very fitting. Almost as fitting as a comment that doesnt seem to understand the movie either.
Honestly not sure if you're riding the struggle bus or are making super meta commentary about the director.
@@user-gs7rv8ld2y you have one the trophy for the LOWEST IQ of them all what address do i send this VERY smooth brain trophy too, can you remember that ? your address? some of the best war films are not based on TRUE events have you herd of Full Metal Jacket like the best recruitment tools of the time they let you decide, because ALL wars suck just try to choose your favorite lost cause and apply yourself FULLY for maximum experience YOU lose the war HARVEST the good times, look good surviving it AND you might be able to love the experience!
I saw “war crime” and clicked faster than my phone could register it.
As a Canadian, I have a certain respect for so called “war crimes”
To be fair, Canadians showed the americans how to do warcrimes in WWI.
My favourite is canadians throwing cans of food into a german trench a few days in a row and then on the third day they threw food and couple seconds later grenades in the german trench.
This aged so poorly
yeah, i can tell, saw the parlament recording
@@Cyrielx2 it was posted 3 days after they aplauded a nazi war criminal, so no it didnt realy age.
Canadians do love and applaud their Waffen SS members.
As a Canadian I’m so incredibly proud of America for this weapon
they try SO HARD to beat our record of "World needed to create the Geneva Convention because of Canada"
Having seen very graphic and brutal footage of whats going on in Ukraine, I now firmly believe that there are no war crimes unless you lose the war and even then, you can buy your way out of trouble like Japan did by handing over certain unethical medical research results.
Yeah watching those drones drop grenades on pleading soldiers. Regardless of what side they're on it's pretty sad to see and it's weird to see some people react to those videos with such glee...
Same in Israel right now. Hamas supporters in the west cheering kidnapped children … its appalling
@@allways28same in Palestine right now, Isreali soldiers shooting kids with rocks…. It’s appalling
Imagine how much worse it would be if there were no restrictions around war crimes then. Just because war is horrific in it's current state doesn't mean that it can't be more horrific.
@@allways28im guessing you havent seen all the videos of Palestinian kids dead then.
Im on no side, everybody loses in a war
They literally wanted to equip the marine corps with Warhammer 40k bolters. They were trying to make real life Astartes. I love it
Based
It's not too late for the space marines to make space force great. Still got lots of time lol
I was literally thinking the same thing the entire time 😂
I was looking for this comment the entire video
One of the ads on this video for me was for Warhammer lol
I spent 22 years in the USMC. I was out 5 years before I realized just how much money we wasted on a daily basis. I mean, it was a common topic of conversation. But we were focused on our day to day. The amount of crap I had to find when I retired was simply amazing. A good 30% was never used. I know it wasn't used because it was in my attic still in the original packaging. And I had a lot of stuff it appears I was never issued.
My realization came when I was PMCSing a Stryker and we were checking the CROWS. The dinky little chain snapped that holds the pin to mount a .50 cal to it. We went and got the civilian contractor that worked for the battalion motor pool and he came to take a look. While he was looking at it, he said, good thing you guys actually did your checks and noticed this, these pins are $1200 each to replace if you lose them. We were shocked because it was just a standard metal pin, maybe 3/8 inch thick and 6 inches long, that was maybe $20 to make. He then told us that legally, the military isn’t allowed to replace them with any parts not from the manufacturer because that’s how military contracts work. I was oblivious to this before hand. It’s just such a blatant waste of resources. After that I started noticing a lot more waste all over the place. If they stood up an agency to audit and eliminate waste in the military, it would cost millions and save billions.
@@dkel4341 I mean thats essentially what the GAO (government accountability office ) is supposed to do, but like any other government entity they dont lol.
@@dkel4341 Going to have call bad memory and more like $120 dollars. ACOGs cost 1400ish and plenty of mechanical devices that are around similar cost. little stuff costing 5x for a specialized part+government contract? Oh, yes. Happens in the civilian world too, about 3.5x for a specialized part.
@@mojothemigo Motorcycle manufacturers are especially bad with this. Some dude ran the numbers, and ordering every part for a Honda Goldwing is 5x the cost of the Goldwing MSRP.
😂😂😂😂😂
Three generations with six decades of life experience.
You really outdid yourself here sir, from the video thumbnail to the contents, I was laughing the entire time while also getting edumacated. You're the man.
Could you possibly cover the story behind the Accuracy International Precision Marksman (the predecessor to the Arctic Warfare)? Some classic “two Brits in a shed” shenanigans, winning a sniper trial they didn’t expect to win, the contracted factory that fucked up a bunch of the specs and forced Accuracy International to say, “Fuck it we’ll do it ourselves,” and how the rifle basically lowered the skill floor on sniping so the whole sniper program had to be reworked because the Precision Marksman was that fucking badass.
I know other channels have covered the story, but the way you tell stories is extremely entertaining and digestible, and I’d imagine you’d have a lot of fun.
The Green Meany lives in infamy! Hell of a rifle.
This, absolutely this.
L95?
@@135Fenrir you got it
People mistake '2 blokes in a shed' as being a pisstake throwaway joke, when in reality the shed is very real, and easily underestimated starting point of commonwealth inventiveness/industry. That shed is but a beautiful blank canvas for the absolute auteur to fill with their wildest dream tools (see Adam Savage's workshop for a contemporary example, or even my garage) to let their ego and absolute dedication to craft run wild. The shed is but simple real-estate with a roof. It is the madlads within that determine its greatness.
See the story of how Britain solved the longitude problem via a fucking woodworker with an eye for precision and detail being left to do as his hand and eyes found with the right tools.
See similar references to 'Czechnology' for more stuff in a similar vein.
Thing is, a shed can be a fucking precision parts mecca because old (but perfectly precise and calibrated) machining hardware is easier to find in a country that made a shitload of it for nearly 200 years, and you've got a bunch of blokes who have the needed attention-to-detail and egos, and extra time on the weekends thanks to their earlier compatriots in history bleeding for those divinely-ordained rights to fuck around with heavy machinery in your off time.
Hence how 'Garagista' teams popped up in F1. And won. Multiple times. And how many wacky but practically useful and well-priced ideas still keep coming out of them.
I mean, is it a warcrime if theres nobody left to report the crime? Great video as always man!
tru dat! What is the judge gonna do... use a ouija board in the trial?!
I see no war crimes here. Move along......
@@darksu6947 "Anybody else see a war crime? No? See, we're good."
So...they were making Space Marine bolter guns is what I'm hearing. Space Marine bolter guns exist in their first version, and this is it.
8:00 - This made me think of a SF story, whose name I cannot remember, where one side kept making more and more advanced weapons with more and more problems while the other side kept cranking out reliable old-school weapons. The final sentence was something like "We lost the war due to the superiority of our weapons."
"Superiority", by Arthur C. Clarke.
@@imnohbody Thanks!
Hell, I was just remembering reading that story earlier today!
@@imnohbodygood memory! Clarke based it on the futuristic super weapons the Germans never quite had in production in WW II, but you guys probably know that.
Hence the success of the viral RUclips from Perun, "All Bling, No Basics".
Woke up with a hangover, saw this and realized that the OICW was created by a designer who got woken up to a hangover and asked to make a new gun. "F*ck it, just make everything explode, leave me the f*ck alone."
"Automatic grenade launcher" Laughs in space marine.
Arent the bolter rounds rocket boosted explosve bullets?
To think we came *this* close to a boltgun and then bailed. That’s the real war crime.
@@foughtthelolyeah they pretty much are mini missiles
"It's a feature, not a fuck up." Oh... Yes! This is now my new favorite phrase. I am using this every time a... a new feature happens.
That time the government decided to try start phase one of the Warhammer 40k Space Marine project by designing their gun into reality.
I love the part about spending 300 million on weapons research to come up with a more accurate rifle to replace the M16 just to decide to throw a scope on the M16 to make it more accurate. Y’all remember that story next time someone says, “You don’t need a scope, you just need to train more.” Training is always good, but imagine someone saying, “You don’t need a double action revolver, you need a single action and more training.”
There was someone who said exactly that about double-action and single-action revolvers. I fucking know it.
@@CallanElliott yeah there was, and I’m pretty sure some dude with a double action killed him.
@@tjlastname5192 To be fair, the guy with the double action guy didn't actually kill the single action guy with the first shot because that trigger pull is a bitch, lmao.
@@CallanElliottNo, he got him with a “slap the hammer” trick shot! Because he knew he’d get more of whatever the 19th century equivalent of subscribers was from that, 😂.
Whoever designed the bologna mistmaker has been spending a little too much time in the Warhammer universe.
The bolt gun is coming to mind.
Exactly! xD
my exact thought too !
Wait, bolt guns are more than 400g right? they are legal by the geneva convention !
Purge the Heretics, 25mm at a time!
@@gabrielvincentelli1254the rounds for your standard bolter are roughly the size of a red bull can
@@Obstinate28So, Bolters aren’t 25mm. They’re 25.4mm, aka one inch in diameter.
Let me clarify for you:
We are GREAT at building microchips. What we are not great at is controlling greed and cost.
Feel like we are close to some rifle company reading about bolters in 40k and trying to recreate that for the US military, which would be fucking awesome.
It already kind of exists in pistol form. It was a failed design from the 1960s that fired rocket assisted bullets much like the bolter from 40k.
Brother, this is just one of those bolters people on Necromunda downsize for the arbites and sisters to use. There’s a soldier above who claims to have tested one and they say it was unwieldy and bruising to use. It shoots 25 mm grenade/bullets. It’s difficult for People Other than Marines (POMs) to effectively deploy.
The only way we are getting closer is if gyrojets make a comeback. This is a bolter and I vote we go the other direction and give a battalion Israeli exo-suits and tren acetate.
Hell, we already have the branch to do it. If it’s in space, Geneva probably doesn’t count, right?
@@justaguy8104 exosuits, might be a good start to assist POMs at least until we develop something like power armor.
@@Commodore22345 So one thing i can say about bolters is they are a two stage projectile. A chemical cartridge propels the rocket grenade out of the barrel and when out of the barrel the second stage ignites and accelerates it even more. the Gyro jet ammunition was a single stage of which was the rocket propulsion which both spun up the projectile and accelerated it. Bolters are rifled and already spun the projectile they fired for more effect.
AA-12 with explosive slugs is pretty close to a bolter.
I officially had to pull my car over and collect my composure after the invisible jet remark. That was gold. And accurate.
Why do you listen to shows about guns while driving and where do you drive around so I can never go there ever
@@Lorendrawn yes, please, stay away. What is wrong with listening to this while driving?
@@nickcautrell2514
He probably thought you were watching on your phone while driving.
You kids are old enough to drive now? wtf
Sorry all I heard was "the XM-29 is really awesome and I want to own one"
Perhaps I only heard that in my head.
Perhaps that is good enough
1:57 a zero degree turn radius fighter jet is honestly what we do need to develop
So, I looked on reddit, apparently the 400g limit came from a St Petersburg declaration or somesuch, of which the US wasn't a cosignatory. Along with that, the 25mm smart grenade conveys significant military advantage, and actually reduces environmental damage and suffering (tiny grenade vs airstrike).
And the 40mm grenade is less than 400g but everybody uses those...
I guarantee if a world war breaks out these grenade launchers are going to be coming off ice
As a man in Charleston, I want to know why hitting auto pilot and hoping it doesn't hit people was his option rather than landing in the damned infield of the base, because outside of where the plane landed, there are a lot of people in that direction
I remember reading about the trials right after they closed the program. I thought the xm8 would be cool af. Especially with the little eye piece that allowed you to shoot it around corners.
The X in XM means eXperiMental, it does not violate the GC, until it’s used in combat and it’s deemed inhumane.
And now the OICW only exists in certain videogames from the early 2000's. Also, this reminds me, didn't the AA-12 automatic shotgun also have an explosive round? Basically a 12-gauge fragmentation grenade round
I remember it was in Eternal Darkness. What other games did the OICW appear in?
@@artvandalleigh7894 Chaser, Soldier of Fortune 2, Bad Company 2 are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
Battlefield 4 had the XM25
@@artvandalleigh7894Ghost Recon 2 featured it, as well as the M8
that would be every 12 gauge shotgun
It's legality is debatable. It's a gray area at best. The Geneva convention spoke specifically of the dum dum bullets that exploded on contact or on contact with a delayed fuse, specifically with the intent of maming / dismemberment, such that it goes beyond taking them out of the fight and into causing them much unnecessary pain and suffering.
You could become a running war crime in COD MW3 by setting the rangefinder of the XM-25 to a couple feet and just sprinting at enemies, basically creating an explosive shotgun
This!!
or you could use it as designed and set it just past the wall youre looking at and use like a wall hack
I love how you will call everyone on anything when it's BS. So much of the dialog today has crazy filters on and will ignore the detail that hurts their argument while promoting the same detail that helps. Please keep up the good work.
I’m laughing so hard having this video on the background of the Sarrano fight before Tyson… “I was impaled by a piece of luggage.”
Hello from Detroit Michigan brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us along with you on your adventure through history
Glad u liked it!
Gotta love the unhealthcare system
I always love Starship Trooper references because it basically saying here's what the world would be if you handed the steering wheel to the USMC. Fucking movie literally has a Dan Daly quote as it's most memorable line
and the fact the us military was to stupid at the the time to realize it was a parody of themselves, and to top it off they thought it was so cool they wanted the guns to look like the movie. like guys starship troopers is mocking yall
@@big_bird8597 Being mocked by Hollywood lowlifes who probably just got done diddling a ten year old, is no problem.
@@big_bird8597 Who cares about being mocked by disgusting Hollywood lowlifes?
@@big_bird8597you ever met a marine, they’re the first to poke fun at themselves. Regardless of whatever mockery occurred humans good - bugs bad
@@spooks196 brother this was not a case of that. and yes i know marines they have huge egos and soft feelings, one fought me in a bar before at school because i told him no to joining my pool game they arent to bright. and you cleary need to rewatch starship troopers the whole point is that the bugs arent the bad ones here
Imagine. 2 to 4 XM29's, mounted on a vehicle (RCWS), should do very well against drones
It’s wild to me how obsessed the government seems to be with actually giving our soldiers guns that look like a Halo dev designed them
They screw up everything they touch, so it is essential that they are behind something that LOOKS fricking awesome to undo their bad ideas.
The new spear looks quite conventional to me
I remember reading about the OICW in a popular mechanics way back in the 90s. I was a kid then and I remember thinking how cool it was. Then I forgot all about it. Nice to know what happened to it.
Omg me too!
RE XM-25 I thought I was going insane during that time seeing opinions flip on that, the Geneva angle and trying to stealth nix it makes so much sense!
I still think its cool...but I can see it being cooler with more modern lighter-weight tech into it (See the M5's optic instead of that telescope on the XM 25) and bump up the weight of the round to make Geneva happy/give it some more oomph as a tradeoff for the increased weight of the round.
EDIT: Wellll maybe not in regards to weight, I vastly underestimated 400g when I first wrote this, I accept the L.
Also It was amazing in NG+ Metal Gear Solid 4, works pretty much like you explained it.