Board game industry: A rotten core?

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  • Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 77

  • @adamluhrs4080
    @adamluhrs4080 Год назад +12

    I miss pre-Asmodee Fantasy Flight, but it's easy to forget they had some sketchy business practices. I bought multiple core sets of Arkham Horror like a chump. Couldn't quite bring myself to buy 3 core sets of LOTR for a full card pool. Ironically, they've gotten more consumer friendly in this regard.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +1

      Agreed they have gotten better since those dark times!

  • @Valmar123123
    @Valmar123123 Год назад +5

    Perfect analysis. I think not only games, all in life is the same, light bulbs, tvs, fridges...
    Even clothes, they "destroy" their value just showing new tendencies next year, so people buy new stuff constantly even if they can wear the old ones.

  • @wade138
    @wade138 Год назад +3

    I feel personally attacked for having purchased all the lieutenant minis for Desecent 2e.

    • @EricWoning
      @EricWoning Год назад

      You can now sell them for exorbitant prices... So in the end you're the one that's laughing.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад

      haha I can't blame you!

  • @SebastianCathyBachConnell
    @SebastianCathyBachConnell Год назад +2

    Good Morning!!!!
    I do agree with your take on the three largest marketing techniques. There are a few others but good presentation of the big three.
    However, I disagree that mtg and 40k are the core of board gaming. I understand they are cash cows for stores that also sell BoardGames. Neither is what comes to mind for a boardgame. They are imho, respectively, a ccg and a war game.
    As a point of order I don’t feel that flag are even a part of all BoardGames hobby. With online buying, Kickstarter, meetup, playgroups many BoardGamers seldom set foot in a flat.
    This doesn’t invalidate you points on boardgame companies cash grabbing. In point of fact companies are in business to do so. It’s just how accountable we hold them. Since boardgamrs are a luxury item, we seem to allow these companies to do whatever they want. Until we say enough they are gonna doom meta up cash grab us to chapter 13.

  • @Groovestonenz
    @Groovestonenz Год назад +2

    This is one of the reasons I really appreciate Stonemaier Games, and became a champion. Jamie made the decision to leave crowdfunding behind, largely because of issues like the ones you've raised here. I really respect that.

  • @obsidiansiriusblackheart
    @obsidiansiriusblackheart Год назад +1

    13:48 cars ARE purposefully designed like that... Fridges too 😂

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +1

      Mhm sadly the planned breakdown of created goods is pretty longstanding :(

  • @johninnaperville
    @johninnaperville Год назад +1

    I used believe a similar thing about light bulbs, but I recently watched a video on “technology connections” which explained that the decision to peg the light bulb life at 1000 hours was a technical decision made to balance the life of the bulb with its efficiency. Longer lasting bulbs are available even today (called long life bulbs) but don’t give off as much light for the same wattage. He brings up another point. If they were designing them that way so you would buy more, why were they effectively free, as when I was growing up, you got them free from the electric company. The video was just published last week and is really interesting. Why he doesn’t say planned obsolescence isn’t a practice, he says that the story of the light bulb cartel, while real, isn’t the place to point to.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +1

      Ah SUPER interesting thanks for the info! Indeed there was a big push at the time for planned obsolescence, that's interesting to hear about the spin (or perhaps, not full picture) put onto the bulb cartel of the time.

  • @critiquegeek7987
    @critiquegeek7987 Год назад +3

    The game that absolutely destroyed my wallet for a while was X-Wing Miniatures. It was common in that community to buy a miniature you didn't even want just to get one of the cards that came with it to use with one of the ships you actually use.

    • @Fenraellis
      @Fenraellis Год назад +1

      I tried to convince my brother otherwise, but he made sure he obtained at least one copy of every available ship. Even going so far as to spend $250 or $300 on a Rebel Transport, due to it being out of print. Before it arrived, a coworker of his happened to be getting rid of their X-Wing stuff, and sold him a Rebel Transport (and the components) for $25 or $30, aside from a few other discounted ships.
      ...he still kept his purchase of the other ship, rather than cancelling, and has left it in the box since it arrived, rather than attempting to re-sell it to recoup the overpaid cost.
      All told, I think he spent around $3,500 on X-Wing Miniatures to have every ship, including duplicates of most of the small ships. This was all collected within the span of about 9 months, and he has made sure to get the new releases (like the tentacle-looking Huge ship) since then.
      That being said, all of his X-Wing Miniatures stuff are stored in boxes ever since he started with Warhammer 40K a bit over a year ago, though. At least he gets enjoyment out of painting them, so it's not quite as wasteful as his X-Wing Miniatures purchases. I think he's also still a little behind on spending in comparison, but not by much.
      Currently, he's also incrementally trying to get most or all of Marvel Champions card game, but that has significantly lower costs to pick up everything.

    • @williamskogen9895
      @williamskogen9895 Год назад

      Guilty as charged...

    • @bryanvangorder3522
      @bryanvangorder3522 Год назад

      They aren't making the Rebel Transport anymore?

  • @derraldlosey1118
    @derraldlosey1118 Год назад +2

    I don’t play games with constantly changing meta. Even if I like the game. League of Legends, Magic the Gathering, doesn’t matter. To much time, effort, and money.
    I don’t do destructive legacy games. Its just a campaign game with an added scam.
    I don’t do loot crate games like MtG. So no trading card games. Runs on a similar addiction as gambling.
    As long as people keep engaging they will keep producing.

  • @Malgamus
    @Malgamus Год назад +2

    Fallout was actually the Atomic Bonds expansion that added co-op play, which is what I think you were trying to say as the fix.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад

      Correct! Sorry about that it's been a few years so was going off memory :)

  • @deano2099
    @deano2099 Год назад +2

    For Descent 2E it was very much a matter of cutting costs to get the price of the core box and expansions down. For those not bothered about minis, having minis for the bosses felt like a waste as they'd show up in just one or two missions. The hero and monster packs were all heroes and monsters from Descent 1E that were compatible. If you had 1E, there was a conversion kit with just the cards, but plenty of people who didn't have 1E were seeking out those figures for 2E and paying over the odds. I think they were totally genuine in what they were doing back then - the game didn't play any differently if you had a token instead of a mini for a lieutenant.
    I think by the time they got to Imperial Assault they'd realised how well this actually worked and exploited it a bit, but I think they genuinely happened upon that by trying to do something consumer friendly.

  • @deusex3124
    @deusex3124 Год назад

    Games Workshop's corporate marketing and design is genius in its ruthlessness. One of the biggest tricks they ever pulled was managing to somehow maintain the perception of being a small company, rather than a corporate monolith making millions from licensing their IP, nevermind actually selling their own products. One of the reasons I like Space Hulk is it's a GW game where everything is in the box, but ofcourse to get around this they make it a limited edition, so it sells out and goes out of print, and then people are flipping it on the secondary market for crazy money.

  • @EricWoning
    @EricWoning Год назад +1

    What magic has done is hack into your brain. A behavioural economics thing is that if you always get rewarded you turn off after a while because it normalises (so you get less & less of a dopamine hit). By making sure that the rewards are variable (great this time, meh the next), they keep the dopamine hit high and make sure that every time you open a pack, you are gagging for it to be good.
    Layer all else on top of that. But collectible card games have this system built in.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +1

      It's amazing how much they got this stuff down to a science.
      Have you heard/seen of "clicker games" (video game genre)? I feel they've taken this practice and stripped it down to it's bare mechanics so it's not even hidden.

  • @ketami2
    @ketami2 Год назад +1

    It's called planned obsolescence, your phone falls into the same category. Opps need a new one.

  • @C42ST3N
    @C42ST3N Год назад

    You are talking about the standard format in mtg, which is dead in paper and mostly been played in mtg arena. But there is power creep, so that you have to update your decks with new cards to be conpetitive

  • @IosifStalin2
    @IosifStalin2 Год назад +1

    In an industry where margins are so poor for designers who spend years on their product, it’s ok to try to make a little more money

  • @jamesmurray2690
    @jamesmurray2690 Год назад +1

    Great video as usual, but you missed a trick regarding the Once Upon A Line scratch card mechanic, but the designers of the game didn’t miss it!
    Recharge packs to let you play the game again.
    The core scenario and each of the expansion ones each have an additional recharge pack available at $5-8 a pack.
    👍😄👍

  • @rayoflight6204
    @rayoflight6204 Год назад

    Well yes indeed. I had said this one so often, it bears to be put in a frame:
    It could be said that some aspects of gaming, if not most, or even, possibly all of it; has become a luxury, a status symbol, a capital, so to speak.
    This is particularly relevant when we talk of game pieces where there are only a few in existence, like the famed Black Lotus of Magic: The Gathering's Alpha. These had become what is known as Veblen Goods: items where there is always an ever-rising demand, and the price will always go up.
    Keep this up, and modern-day gaming will not be affordable in the future, only the so-called Whales could ever afford to have fun.

  • @Ironhawx
    @Ironhawx Год назад +1

    In my opinion, the current state of the board game industry is as dire as the opioid crisis. Fueled by hyper consumerism, deluxification and FOMO. You can’t just enjoy a game without having something in your face to keep spending more…how many people have the courage to admit they spent more money than they should have? Or the Uber hype that ravaged their bank accounts fizzled when the final product was (ever) delivered?

  • @danielcraig6615
    @danielcraig6615 Год назад +1

    As someone who never played Warhammer or magic, the gathering, I didn’t understand the constant changing of rules because of the meta. However, I’ve gotten into marvel snap and I am quite annoyed at how often they change cards. This is been incredibly frustrating to me and it’s made me want to quit, but I’m hooked.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +2

      It's the same there. By constantly changing "what's hot" they ensure there's a constant chase where you never quite reach the finish line. This is only applicable for "forever" games but more and more often games aspire to be that.
      We see similar things with stuff like Gloomhanve and Tanares where on top of the hundreds of hours of campaign we see steady releases of more and more.

  • @raceofrobots9152
    @raceofrobots9152 Год назад

    Ford started planned obsolescence not just by designing breaking within 10 years, but by releasing updated versions that make previous versions obsolete every 5 years. I dodged Shadows Of Brimstones latest kickstarter as that system is a bloated nightmare with infinite superficial changes. Though new gameplay mechanics were introduced, im better off picking them up at retail.

  • @Spidiculous
    @Spidiculous Год назад +2

    Tanares Adventures did this! Created such a mess of a convoluted game then just kickstarted a "solution" for it.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +2

      Indeed! That plus just content bloat. You already have a few hundred hours of campaign but there's always more produced so you are never "done" - I tend to call these "lifetime games"

  • @not_another_board_game_page
    @not_another_board_game_page Год назад

    Hey, I’m looking at the late pledge for Dawn of Madness right now.. do you recommend or should I stay away?
    Your opinions on these types of topics are the opinion I trust the most, please help!

  • @Paprika799
    @Paprika799 Год назад

    Valid points; haha love imperial assault. Such a great dungeon crawler one vs many

  • @siriactuallysara
    @siriactuallysara Год назад

    Magic the gathering started the changing meta concept. They did it back in the late 90s and 2000s

  • @BalkanBiker
    @BalkanBiker Год назад

    CMON made Massive Darkness and Zombicide. As much as I don't like their FOMO, they make games for me.
    Awaken Realms make fantastic games. Their games are not for me (except Nemesis, I like that a lot).
    Businesses are all about making money and they will do it shady if they can. But if I can afford it, and if I find fun in it, I don't mind.
    Each Zombicide KS includes so much for about $150 (core box + stretch goals) that you won't even need anything besides that. Just avoid FOMO, everything else besides core box is to get you to spend more money.

  • @theshogunstein6475
    @theshogunstein6475 Год назад +1

    I think the board game industry takes advantage of some people, especially "Feld fans" for example. In the end it is free will and nobody is forcing you to buy a third version of castles, but I really do think they take advantage of people they know are "collectors" or "completionists. " Seriously 3.5 million raised for a second edition of a game many people own, didn't finish, and just bought a sequel? Again, nobody is making you buy all this stuff, but I really think the board game industry and especially KS prey on some people.

  • @CheddahSlammer
    @CheddahSlammer Год назад

    This is all classic business stuff, make a product, then make it not last as long so you buy more of that same product. Also they do the same with cars, they make them only last a good 5 years, but in the past you had these older cars that lasted 10years.

  • @sidneyleejohnson
    @sidneyleejohnson Год назад

    Well if you bought 4 versions of Pandemic Legacy season 1 and 2 you can put the boxes together and form a giant clock and hang it on your wall...

  • @xshadowscreamx
    @xshadowscreamx Год назад +1

    Eventually all board games will have an app addition so all board games can be monetised.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +2

      and controlled. No more house rules. Personally I'm waiting for the first subscription based board game.

  • @williamfaulkner7181
    @williamfaulkner7181 Год назад +2

    The moment a game is destroyable I won't buy it. Both me and my wife hate things like that. So I will want Gloomhaven from afar lol.

  • @AlBundy4td
    @AlBundy4td Год назад

    Descent 2E and IA - had to grab all of it. No way was Han solo joining the campaign as a token - ha. At least FFG created an app that allows alot of those add-on's see more play.

  • @garylangford6755
    @garylangford6755 Год назад

    Or just play euro games is retail which is way less likely to have these issues

  • @ScytheNoire
    @ScytheNoire Год назад +2

    Surprised you didn't bring up what Funko Games is doing. They have Star Wars Rivals (Dice Tower has a review) where they are selling Light or Dark Side boxes where you don't know what figure you will get for the game in the box. So you can buy something you already have. It's a horrible model, and predatory.
    I'm wondering if board games will figure out how to do Seasons, which is the current popular thing in video games, a 3-4 month period of new content or new rules.

    • @nonamenoname1133
      @nonamenoname1133 Год назад +2

      Doing seasons ethically would amount to smaller, but faster expansion content and more stable cash flow on the business side-- There's a reason devs do it. Since scope creep is a big big big thing on the indie and small business side, I think that small expacs are a healthy way of doing things. This is a concept that can exist completely separate from blind boxes/lootboxes, which are 300% toxic.

    • @ScytheNoire
      @ScytheNoire Год назад +1

      @@nonamenoname1133 I think Seasons are more of a Live Service thing though. Expansions and Small Expansions (aka DLC) are still the mainstay so far.
      DLC seems antiquated, since everything these days is downloaded. Maybe they should take from the software development world, came them Module content or something.
      I guess board gaming has taken on that term, many games coming now with modules to vary up the gameplay over time, not big enough to be an expansion, but enough to vary gameplay.

  • @elementz301
    @elementz301 Год назад

    Never really considered trading card games or "piecemeal wargames" boardgames tbh. Fantasy flight can be sus though

  • @pawemalon2502
    @pawemalon2502 Год назад

    FFG... well. I loved the company and their games. But their practices they started to employ... well, I loathed it. Star Wars Armada - you wanted to use that booster card in your Imperial fleet? Oh, tough luck - there is only one copy sold with Rebel ship. So you need to buy it as well. Same for Star Wars X-Wing. Or LCG's at the begining - buy three core sets or three times the same booster - as the most valuable cards were there only in one copy...

  • @sm1ttywerb
    @sm1ttywerb Год назад +2

    Another aside that I’ve been trying to be more cognizant of is, these huge crowdfunding games are absolutely terrible for the environment.

  • @hammerdall
    @hammerdall Год назад

    Totally agree on there being way too much IP related crap. And so much of it is poorly designed but beautifully presented, just to get you to open your wallets. You’ll only learn how terribly it plays after it’s too late.
    Disclaimer: not all IP based games are bad, some are terrific. But there’s just way too much of it

  • @OverboardDM
    @OverboardDM Год назад +1

    Right on brother. Now explain why we know all this but still spend all our money. Lol

  • @OverboardDM
    @OverboardDM Год назад

    Board games. Rpgs and war games

  • @marcnno6323
    @marcnno6323 Год назад

    Without constant changes MTG would fade away long time ago.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +1

      Totally agreed! And be super difficult to balance as well (read, impossible). Pros and cons to everything as always :)

  • @plazma2891
    @plazma2891 Год назад

    I can't stand gamesworkshop the only thing they're doing right now is making all the other companies up their prices they see how much they are getting for their models so they want to up their board games with a Miniatures and up the price and it's b*******

  • @diszect7134
    @diszect7134 Год назад

    Usually I’m with you on these videos. This one you offer a lot of complaints but no solutions. ESP for stuff like the fantasy flight constant releases. They could put it all in a box then you’d be on here making a video about how expensive it is and content bloat. Seems like the solution is to release small amounts of content and live with that?

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +2

      I'm not so sure it even needs a solution as I'm not so sure what's done is actually a problem. Perhaps a followup video I can speak on that a bit more. There are pros and cons in most everything right? If you love the game, it's FANTASTIC to get more and more stuff for it as an example.
      This was more to point out that many believe Kickstarter/Crowdfudning as the only platform where board games do this. That's not the case.

    • @diszect7134
      @diszect7134 Год назад +1

      @@TheKingofAverage that’s totally fair. It felt a bit like ‘this stuff all sucks… that’s all I got to say about that’.

  • @hendrikrasmus
    @hendrikrasmus Год назад

    That light bulb thing is mostly a conspiracy theory, as if you want bright high K light by getting a wire hot you must get it very hot and if you don't want to waste energy you kinda want it thin.

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +2

      Planned obsolescence is a very real thing regardless. I've literally been in a meeting at HP where they spoke about how they forced printers to stop printing after they reach the advertised page limit (regardless of actual ink used). The explanation is of course quality assurance but we all know how real that reason is. Things made are purposefully made to fail from the car engine to now many board games. It keeps you buying.

  • @davidseim4106
    @davidseim4106 Год назад

    I have to disagree with the legacy game portion of the video. Some of the greatest game moments i have had is because the character is permanently dying. It adds more drama and "caring" if the character dies. It creates a level an heir of suspense you wouldn't normally have. Just my two cents

    • @noother0ne298
      @noother0ne298 Год назад +1

      Sure, but you can have a character die without actually destroying the physical component. There are numerous games where characters die, or you make permanent decisions where cards or elements are no longer available, but they don't tell you to physically destroy the product. Destroying anything is just such a waste.

    • @davidseim4106
      @davidseim4106 Год назад

      @@noother0ne298 again. Because the death is permanent. Not able to be stored away for next time. Adds an element that i like! It adds anxiety

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад +2

      You could do that without it being forced though right? There's nothing stopping you from ripping up a board game card, or marking in sharpie a single copy/etc. I can make a game of magic "legacy" but ripping up a planeswalker after they die in a game.
      It's the intentional forcing without providing another solution/option that's the business move.
      I can TOTALLY understand why that appeals to a lot of people. Video games often do this with a single save system for instance. The difference there is when you are done you can still replay it again.

  • @victorgonzalez2927
    @victorgonzalez2927 Год назад +1

    Aren’t you gatekeeping by disqualifying Monopoly or Clue as board games by saying they weren’t real board games like Decent?

    • @TheKingofAverage
      @TheKingofAverage  Год назад

      haha only meant to clarify the focus of this specific video than say someone is or isn't a board gamer for whatever reason :)
      Monopoly/Clue sales are mostly from supermarket chains, not FLGS and as such didn't fit in with the subject is all.

  • @LeeroyPorkins
    @LeeroyPorkins Год назад

    Wouldn't that be a Zombie? ZOMBICIDE!

  • @dcfcdunk
    @dcfcdunk Год назад

    Almost like rabid capitalism is a problem eh?