I Got Crushed In 2 Minutes... - Wings of Mengsk - Nightmare Difficulty - 21
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Grant your ignoring the fact that the laser can shoot halfway across the map, its a *siege weapon* not a push weapon you pair it with the observer alpha and it'll slowly peal apart enemy bases with them only able to respond by pushing into you, where Terran is at its strongest
Cheese potential!
It could have killed the nyduses from the first base on this mission. And with campaign missions often giving you vision of the main objective, it has an use. But 10 damage at +3 and 4 stars is really low...
Its probably decent at say plinking down Kerrigan in the last mission or cheesing big objectives, but as a unit in a fight its 2500 health and 8 armor for 1000/1000.
As compared to all other other cool hero units, I agree with grant its probably the weakest.
And in my personal opinion the least interesting
so you can basically take down objectives on sky mission without entering their bases as well as Leviathan itself
@@BekindBekbek Leviathan would probably agro like hell if you poke it with the tickle beam. Still going to be a great way to draw it out of the Zerg bases though.
The Laser cannon is supposed to be placed inside of a base and forgotten about. Treat it like a mobile Earthsplitter farm and not like a Siege Tank. You could have easily targeted the Nydus Worms from your alcove and not had to push to the Nydus Worms for the Laser to do it's job. It's not a Siege Tank with a laser beam it's the Drakken Laser Drill on wheels.
Yeah, only issue is that lack of large fight contributions aside from a single ability whereas the other options can be present and provide better damage and sustainability against immediate threats.
That's also why it's not in F2. Just hold position it in base, yeah.
It's essentially co-op Swann's drill, yea.
Yes it's auto attack is useless in a fight, because it not meant to be used in a fight, on the other hand drakken laser drill+obesevatory alpha, once it gets map wide vision, you could litterally just have the drill snipe any objective, or production structure or whatever you want, without ever setting foot in the enemy base at all
I wonder if it can kill Kerrigan before she gets to you on the last mission
"The observer wouldn't be good here"
*proceeds to lose over 50 supply to lurkers*
never change Grant, never change
This mission is weird. The drop pod locations have enemy bases on them and are being camped, so you need to pre-clear (it's fine if this is a mechanic, but then it needs a warning message and probably also location markers and timers to show the player where they have to go next if they want to save them), but you're also completely fine just hiding in a hole and using global abilities (calldowns, Earthsplitters, laser siege tanks, nukes, drop-pod rallies) to take down the Nyduses from the safety of your base, and if you can build up with Shock Divisions, Sky Furys and Blackhammers you probably have enough firepower to be able to turtle.
I wonder if released version would delete those bases. Are they still working on it?
I like the idea that there are bases there so you have to clear them, but maybe either have them without any powerful zerg or defenses before any pods arrive; allow for that ability to pre-clear. Maybe only spawn them when the pods arrrive.
Alternatively they could just give vision onto those areas to show the player what they wil have to encounter for that pod to be safe. Although that sounds that a trigger nightmare to set up, if they don't just go for a simply blanket reveal of the entire area. Or maybe do both!
I understood it in the way that the Nightmare AI builds bases pretty much everywhere, and the spots where the pods land are pretty open, so he AI just goes there and plops a hatch down. So it wouldn't really be about pre-clearing, but just keeping it clean in general. Just like in Trains you didn't only have bunkers everywhere, but also all of the Barracks actually building stuff. While you wouldn't count a Barrack as a base, Hatches are the way to build stuff for Zerg. So the only way to proxy production is... building a base.
Mensk is the type of guy that would use drop pods as artillery to destroy a base. i want to see that.
Destroy the hive to get the units of the drop pod later, otherwise the drop pod will destroy the hive for you, but you get no units.
@@Schilani Nightmare AI doesn't do that on this mission. The places they build are pre-set it's not "anywhere there's space".
The incredible confidence to just fly the CC alone into the fog to its new location. I was deeply impressed.
I feel like the bases at the drop sites is pretty mean. It's a very "You didn't know about this ahead of time, what are you stupid." Design that gives a first time through no time to respond.
As for the Laser Tank, maybe it could get an upgrade implemented that lets it bypass armor? I understand that for something that hits so rapidly, from a design standpoint the damage per tick needs to be balanced otherwise it would be the strongest by far, but as it is, while it looks impressive visually, like Grant said, you start hitting armor and it is pretty bad. Kinda going back to the original Draken, its whole purpose was it was designed to cut through super tough stuff, so I don't think bypassing at least some armor is completly outside the design.
dev can make atk as spell if there want anyway?
Make it hit harder with a slower attackspeed ez
You can save quite many of the drops, even on the first try. In this mod it isn't a-move to get some free units (->deathball). You have to decide what you do and prepare.
Laser Tank bypassing armor would be overpowered (or practically useless against unarmored units). You could quickly snipe the armored units and the rest of an attack wave would be no threat (no proper anti-air needed -> more dps against ground units and other stuff).
Today we have "grant and the case of the missing command center!" Tune in to find out how it vanished!
I think the Drakken Siege Cannon is quite playstyle dependant, since I'm assuming it has infinite range like the Drakken Laser, which means instead of busting the zerg like you did you could've gone full defense and sat at home while the laser killed the worms, skipping a ton of combat.
It's long range (50), but not infinite. I don't remember if in Shatter the Sky, the drill could attack the bottom right coolant tower from the mid-right expansion
It's range is 50, equivalent to upgraded Earthshakers. Earthshakers put it out of a job, they can be blind-fired and don't leech XP from your other Royal Guards.
If Kerrigan has implosion on the last mission then the Drakken tank might be a less bad option.
More importantly, ESOs aren't on shared CD with Odin, Nova, Balius, and Xanthos.
Xanthos can straight up 1v1 Kerrigan or the Tal'darim Mothership and come out on top that's how good it is.
Even when mind controlled by humans, the dogs of war find a way to serve the swarm.
When game gives you extra resources, there's always a catch.
Alas, when the bunkers are packed with fully upgraded troopers, thats a good chunk of minerals too.
If this mod gives you free stuff, its a surefire sign you are about to get f***** on!
There is always free cheese in a mousetrap.
Grant floating his command center off to die was very very funny. The giant grant games guarantee!
I just saw the video of you on Harstem's gameshow, and I was laughing nonstop. Your banter was absolutely amazing ^^
People complained this mission in the normal game was build into a death ball and storm an enemy base, so I guess the modder wanted to capture the hopeless outnumbered feel they that it lacked, but he turned a mission that awarded aggressive play into being a turtle.
Quick note about the observer, the heal beam works on bio as well. Plus it has irradiate as its attack and I believe it hits in a small radius around the primary target.
Have a nice day/evening/night everybody!
Thx you to😊
Have a good morning :)
Observer Alpha heals all units, mech or bio. You still want a few medics so it mostly targets your mech units, but it's there.
Depends a little on your comp and micro but once it gets its no-energy heal + aoe heal ability you shouldn't need anything else. The aoe keeps all the high hp units topped off (its % based) and the free heal keeps the bio ones good.
Now that we're in the endgame, I want to see Grant try and full-clear All In with Earthsplitter Ordinance, the Drakken Siege Tank, and possibly one of the hero units like the White Star.
16:40 Grant: “Scrap everything and move it over to this base”
BC : “it’s a trap !”
I like that this whole pain just started by Grant randomly clicking on nightmare and just rolling with it :D
9:02 "It is Wednesday! My Brood!"
Fun fact - you can cheese this mission *hard* by abusing eathsplitters or droping nuke rain on nydus worms.
Also, I wonder wich mission will Garnt pick next. BotB offers a lot of fun with burning hundreds of infested with [redacted]. StS on the other hand offers oppurtunity for epic duel between White Star and Leviatan. Thechnicaly there will be another one in All in anyway, but I don;t think Grant could bank 5000/5000 on this mods All In :P .
The thing with the Drakken laser tank is that it's coop Swann's drakken cannon, including the AoE from his prestige and his topbar ultimate which is basically a global nuke. It's not a frontline weapon, nor is it really meant to snipe things. It's a support siege weapon. Takes a while to kill things on its own, but does a fair amount of damage to help armies.
0:38 That extra stuff isn't there to make your life easier. It's there to make the mission *winnable*.
3:50 Your dogs of war can capture stuff for you . I wouldn't use it to get five troopers though so maybe your right.
5:05 There's an Aegis Guard so yes. And it's just lings so bait them into your tank.
6:52 Now don't you feel good about saving the AG who's never gonna die?
9:17 He might not know the lore.
10:36 After the fourth wave you need to move out and open up the LZs because all subsequent waves are in the middle of enemy outposts and get murdered instantly.
15:50 Actually the expansion is the one thing that seems to be unchanged from the base game so yeah just go grab it.
22:30 The objective, like all nightmare objectives, seems to have an anti-cheese in place.
23:00 As predicted, your AGs outlasted everything. 😁
It's fine to get the troopers with the dogs, they will run toward the right to the ultra after clearing the ling and hydra, during which you can run troopers down. The ultra won't aggro your base because the only thing aggroed them ran into them and died. I did this twice at least, so it is perfectly safe. Do becareful and not engage the zerg with the rescued trooper though, that will pull them down.
The starport and BC can be rescued via calldown. The former because it's so close to your base so can just float to safety while the calldown keep them busy, the latter because it have a safe zone to resist from. Though due to corruptor focus fire, the BC might need to leave the fight half way, but your row of bunker will actually beat the defenders.
When Grant calls him Matthew, I feel warm inside.
Grant you gotta do this one again! With a revised strategy! :p
You can actually rather easily clean all zerg bases here!
If you go for an elite bioball composition, or with a banshee/viking + Observer composition, it gets really easy to clean the entire zerg bases!
It's a blast to do too!
I did it twice on nightmare, it's really doable, you gotta do it haha
WHy's he gotta? he beat the mission. Does something cool happen if you do?
Banelings are soo brutal with the 100% extra damage to main target upgrade
i feel like the Drakken siege cannon, with the AOE and slow from it's first two levels, is meant for groups of small enemies, but then those enemies melt way to quick for it to even start shooting, so as it is you need to get a max level observer alpha before you even consider getting it, two ways i thought of to make it maybe a little better are either remove/reduce the attack delay to make it better against the small enemies, or boost it's damage to make it better against the big enemies that it can actually start shooting
You can destroy the sandbags yourself so you don't have to salvage the bunker on the right.
As for the drop pods, I think it's either intended to pre clear, which is difficult since the enemy rebuilds them and you can't just place a bunker at 3 of 5 mini bases because an ultralisk will come eventually, or use your top bar (mainly bunkers) to secure them without rescuing until your army can get in place. The first 4 drop pods don't land in enemy bases though and the last one (BC) doesn't either.
Very exciting mission, Grant struggling against the waves but overcoming the odds. Great stuff
This version of the mission really shows how a invasion of Char would go lmao
Mengsk to Mengsk:
"I love my gumption, son, but I'm way over my head."
Basically sums up the playthrough :D
16:12 Bye bye blinking command center!
Not going to lie.....that siege drill was very underwhelming. But boy did it level up fast.
"I love my Command center!"
"Time to send it half across the map alone!"
"I love my Command center!"
"Where is my Command center?"
"Where are my building guys?... tab tab tab tab tab..."
**Doesn't use F5**
"Well I guess I don't have any"
Where'd that ultra go xD 13:35
To be honest, I found the mission relatively easy. You can't save all the drop pods, but you don't have to. Just a few siege tanks, Thors and Sky Furies and entrench yourself. If you have enough troops, simply clear the bases in the north and southwest and then fight your way to the Nydus worms by land just for fun. I find the mission one of the best so far because Zerg throws a lot of meat at you :)
Me too, I found this mission easy. And you really don't need thors on this mission. They're fun, but an absolute waste of resources.
This is exactly how this mission should feel like on high difficulties!
We need the combo "Science vessel" lvl 4 maphak + "Sige laser tank drill" going bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz at everitning. Play only on difense, wait for like 4 week and let the laser clean everithing
This is what I need to see, lol.
Grant! I love watching you play. I would really like to see more of the Xanthos if you have the opportunity! I felt like it didn't really have a moment to shine yet.
those burrow charge ultras. Hunter Killers, OH GOD
Blessed be the Grant. Excellent job buddy!
Easy way to make siege cannon better vs massive and armored stuff is to add void ray charge up ability, i sure its make cannon way better in that mod, where most of the stuff pretty tanky.
Despite sharing a time zone with grant his uploads are always at 3 am, and I'm here for it.
The observer alpha is great in this mission, it have the irradiate, free repair, shield, detection and map vision, i wish grant have picked it near the end (or at some point)
I just dropped the laser drill tank on the high ground by the nydus worms lol.
I hope on shatter the sky we get an epic 1v1 between the laser cannon and the leviathan.
I wonder if mass Sons of Korhal would be good here. Those Muta balls are Grant's bane.
Maybe just maybe aggroing 2 ultras into the base at the start of the mission is not the brightest idea just like using the laser as an assault unit. it has 50 range for a reason but yes for a superwep it's the lamest and weakest
seems like you could cheese the whole map with the laser cannon. The laser cannon can shoot at nydus from the base right? just turtle in the base while the cannon shoots. This mission and the supernova seems like the best missions for it. and maybe maw of the void for the mothership. but white scar was so fun on that mission
Why don't they simply cover the artifact with sandbags in All In? Are they stupid?
They are expensive and it isn't in raynor's budget
Gotta be the right type of sand granules. They're actually importing the material from Australia on old Earth to make all sandbag barriers.
why do it when you can accomplish the same with thousands soldier lifes?
Zerg can dig through rock. Sand and fabric won't stop them.
I wonder how heart of the swarm with mensk would be like
R.I.P. spine crawler family 🙏🙏😔😛
I agree with the Siege Cannon analysis. It's neat, but it's value is from cheese not from real power like the other super units
being on "parody" with them must be hard zerg does tell the best jokes
Ok so hear me out.
Observer alpha + draken pulse cannon
Just fricken start slowly melting kerrigan the second she spawns
Stayed awake to see this, less gooo
Warfield hit the ground at 9:00 game time. There was nothing left of Warfield's camp by 10:07 .....
jeezus...
I liked it when he called it Gates of Heck 😝
I think it's a mistake to try to maintain the full base size.
You should shrink your base, your base should be from the E bay to the right geyser and below, put all your building down there, float the production structure you are not using if need be. Sell all the starting bunker and turret and rebuild 2-3 bunkers just above your new base, with the tank in the center. This will allow all your defense to fire on any incoming enemy, instead of some not able to reach, makes it much easier to defend.
A question to ask is why this is viable here but not in the base game. There are serveral reasons:
1. you can't sell turrets in base game, so that's a wasted turret up there.
2. the merc compound is up there, you would also have to waste resource to rebuild it, and it's hard to fold below due to how large it is. Which leads to the next point
3. You don't need as much space for your defenders in this mod. Thing is, mengsk stuff, be it bunker of upgraded troopers or RG, have a lot more damage per unit space occupied. This means the amount of stuff needed to kill a full wave takes up very little space. Whereas in vanilla, you need much more space for bunkers and the larger number of siege tanks.
The starport is an easy rescue by dropping zerg and one bunker there, then just fly the starport and witness back while the enemy work on that. That said, you really don't need two of them so if you already built one in order to rush mandate, those aren't needed. But yes, proper rescue of most drop pod require pre-clearing. For most of us, abondoning them to their fate is the far easier play. You have effectively infinite resource, you can build your own. The only ones worth rescuing are the first two, the BC and maybe the starport.
The free resource is also more significant than you think/feel, at 1k mandate, it's 960 mineral per 90 seconds, or 10.7 minerals a second. That is like 5 infinite mineral patches. As long as you don't lose too much stuff, you will be fine. Which gets back to the shrunken base, you'd lose a lot less if you shrink and hold. In fact, once you reach 3-4 bunkers of 1 fire, 3 missile, 2 lmg, 3 shock division and 2 black hammer, you shouldn't lose anything anymore.
You should also priorize the bunker armor upgrade a bit earlier. While offensive upgrade so you can kill the enemy to reduce their damage output is normally valid, in reality most of your damage in this mod will be done by RG who are not affected by those upgrades. Oftentimes, the bunker's main job is actually just to tank. Now, the sequence will depend on the mission, but for this one, I would recommand armor, range, then attack. The range is needed against broodlords. The attack upgrade mostly benefit unequipped troopers, since they need it to get over armor to do any noticable damage. But if you depend more on a smaller number of upgraded trooper for damage, it's actually somewhat marginal since they already have a high base damage(or, in case of flame, deal majority of damage with the DoT)
You are really underutilizing observer a, it's really great--it provides heal to anything AND detector. You may or may not be aware of this, but while it is in the heroic tab, it doesn't need or share cd with the others, so you can get it at only the cost of resource very early in the game
Yes, the drill is the weakest heroic, which is why it is the cheapest. It's basically for semi-cheesing objective, it doesn't do anything else all that well.
This mission was pretty easy to me, and I am not as good as Grant :D
I just turtled with tanks and bunkers, then I went for 8 earthsplitter+ leveled the Observer.
I got the entire map clear
Well played!
I realy love the feeling of compounding power buildup mengsk has as your royal guard get higher level and you get more rom to do stuff in the mission
Grant the observer alphas heal beam heals both bio and mechanical, I’m not sure if that will come up where it will be better than just going medics but I think that is good knowledge to know
Yyeeeaaaahhhh, the whole "hatchery where things drop" thing is kinda BS, I gotta agree with Grant there. It's one thing to warn that they're dropping to give time, and another to just drop in locations that are instant death unless the player has memorised the locations and cleared beforehand. The Mengsk faction might be strong in this, but they're not "ima clear everything rq" levels of strong.
pick observer first, it has its own separate shorter cooldown :) so its almost auto include ALWAYS :)
4:05
"Raynor's Raynors!"
The lone dominion trooper:
You know Grant, I'm pretty sure a 50 range siege unit could have sat at base and saved Warfield.
Have you seen the=at at the beginning of the second attempt that the top bar isnt there, is the mod maker aware of that, I know it shows up later though it is something worth noting here and if that is intended then maybe something that should be put in the important notes
if you gonna use zerg top bar why not use it for rescue? and are you too rush for trooper gun?
The problem with dogs of war is that they find their way home.
Love the 007 themesong 😂😅
It might be better to turtle and earth splitter everything tbh, maybe battlecruisers?
I think the thing about the drakken is that it's basically global. You could probably cheese a bunch of objectives with it
Honestly really enjoy the Brutalisks, I always thought nightmare Char (or at least all in) should've had a couple lying around.
The draken cannon will be op against Kerrigan since you get vision of her and she takes a bit to reach your base.
Thank You for all the hard work, Grant! You rock!
So in this timeline does Valerian remain the prince and work with his dad to take down Kerrigan instead of breaking away? Cause if so they should have double the fleet and/or drop pods reaching the surface right?
This mision was so hard, but I did it with xanthos, he was so op
the draken tank is op if you've got the time to utilize it. scan into the enemy and kill all their mages and artillery's, then you can practically a-move the rest of your squad in.
even a siege tank is garbage compared to a marine if the target is airborne
Drakken Siege Cannon as it can shoot acrose whoole map it seems perfect for Shatter the Sky and All in. Killing Leviatan/Sara as soon as they spawn seems fun ^^
I don't think the Pulse Cannon is good in general but it's fine at killing the Mothership on Maw and the Leviathan. It wasn't unusable against the armored trains when I tried it either, although it needs help to kill the fast ones.
i think the idea is to clear landing zones before pod arrive. but it seems impossible at Nightmare dif.
Happy valentines day, may your day be free from creep.
I don't know why so many mods make this map "pre-clear or go screw yourself." Just feels like bad design to have to either memorize the location or quicksave a bit before each. You did incredibly well though, that was impressive play for how unfair the map seems.
Tahnks for the Dominion! ^^
ahh WoL Char..still a struggle even with this Coop Mod
I'm not good with SC2 audio lines.
Is Mengsk's "Unleash the Zerg!" an actual line or two different lines spliced so well you can't tell the difference?
I think it's an actual line recorded for Mengsk as a co-op commander, but I may be mistaken
This was one of those missions that, when I played it, felt just spitefully designed. It's a mission that, for most players, feels like it needs to be replayed many times over because winning requires you to have knowledge you only gain by trying and losing something. This was my least favorite mission because I didn't feel like I at all had the chance to make smart, solid plays, and instead was just loading saves. This one sucked.
Eventually I beat it by using the laser drill and hero sci vessel in tandem, getting full map vision and burning down the nydus from the other side of the map with ease lol. But I'm frustrated I felt I needed to resort to cheese to beat a map designed to be spiteful to the player.
I did the mission with 4 diamondbacks and xanthos. Left all the other dudes in the base to defend.
I had to try a few times on this one too. I gave up on saving anything.
Don't you hate it when you send your command center through a mob of mutalisks and hydralisks and it doesn't reach it's destination safely?
Don't poke the bear! :P
Them setting up bases on the drop points is a bit meh but considering you have drop pods as default on royal guards and the reinforcements are kinda strong too, I see it as an equalizer... maybe too much but does make the mission a bit more difficult than it would be if you could easily get all the stuff easily.
Drakken siege tank is kinda weak BUT 50 range and the slow effects and the big blast later means you can nab it early and in most cases just leave it in your base to beam anything it wants and later to put pressure on single big things while you push to them. For its fairly low price it can sit there and get value in complete safety. Definitely the weakest of the super units though (not counting observer)
That thing really need to be Swann Pres 1 version of Laser Drill. Fast lock on, deal a lot of damage for baseline. And then get focus beam + pulse + even more range from level up.
As far as I could see most of the drop pods were killed immediately because of the bases so you would not be able to drop a unit into the pods and then unlock them since they would be dead by that point, so you basically have to do what Grant is saying and pre-clear all of the locations which means you have to memorize when and where the drop pods spawn not when they usually get attacked.
To be fair mengsk units are kinda strong, you get shock divisions and blackhammers, if they were vanilla drop locations they definitely could clear the way back themselves >
yeah i meant that if it was vanilla it would be all too easy to get some very powerful units via drop pods, this way you have to go out of your way to secure locations to get your free royal guards. Does seem to be a little too far in the opposite direction at times but it would make the mission way too easy if it was purely vanilla.@@Mahons
What if… Mengsk attacked Kerrigan himself
Dang this mission looks hard.
We should have listened to the tactical analysis.
can u play a mod with a protoss mission? or a zerg? u play a lot of terran lately
I don't think the zerg bases being where the drop pods are is fair to the player. There's already larger attack waves that whittle down your forces, I don't think that needs changing
Sooooo... can sandbags not be destroyed on nightmare or does Grant just not know? 😅
"I dOn'T hAvE AnY"
where can I get the mod?