Dom if you had the space you could have easily solved the pump problem by flooding the suction inlet of the original pump. This should be achieved by taking a tapping from or near the bottom of you feed water tank.
I hope all your doing for this couple is worth it and they want it now after all that hard work lets hope they still want this coffee, tea, making machine shop any way good luck with it..by the way you never tell us weather theirs a little lady waiting at home for you .?. except the dog who.s rarely cute and almost goes every where with you.
Dom , apologise if this is already covered, I haven’t read all the comments but it safety related so important. Electrical protection for mobile units is a bit of a minefield, as well as the regs you must adhere to there are other considerations: What protection are you installing, it would normally be an RCD, however this won cover all situations as I’ll explained below What protection does the output of the inverter require, does it have an earth neutral bond in which case an RCD could be fitted or is it floating 240v (like a shaver socket) Bonding of metal bits, electrical things can develop faults, you don’t want to be able to touch 2 different things that have a different electrical potential. This is especially important if you have a supply that doesn’t have an earth neutral bond (this is why shaver sockets only have one output, so you can’t plug 2 devices in that are not bonded) And the real challenge is knowing what sort of earth you are going to get from an external 240v supply. There are 3 earthing systems in the UK: TT, this is where the supply is Line & Neutral only and you would normally then have to install an earth rod locally, used to be common where the supply was by overhead cables in rural areas. Second is TN-S this has the neutral of the source of energy connected with earth at one point only, at or as near as is reasonably practicable to the source and the consumer's earthing terminal, practically this was achieved where the cable was underground with a lead sheath, this was the most common form of earthing in the UK up to the 60’s. Thirdly, TNCS often called PME (Protective Multiple Earthing). The Neutral and Earth wires are combined within the supply cable. At the property, the Neutral and Earth are separated, with the earth terminal usually being on the side of the cut-out. Inside the cut-out, the earth and neutral are linked. Throughout the supply network, the combined earth/neutral conductor is connected to the ground in multiple places, either buried underground or at the poles for overhead supplies, this is the most common arrangement in the UK today. Why knowing the earthing matters; facilities like caravan parks have to meet regulations that includes adding additional protection at the point where the caravaner hooks up, they are effectively a TN-S system with individual RCD protection. Things get more tricky with mobile catering as the mobile unit can rock up at an event in a field that’s supplied by a generator or a hotel car park with a supply from a hotel. If a generator is the generator supplying a floating 240v or does it have the earth an neutral bonded? With no earth reference RCD’s cannot protect against earth faults. If it’s a TNCS supply its technically a nonstarter to rely on the earth for a mobile unit, regulations only permit it if the equipment is being operated by an electrically competent person (an electrician, so not very practical!) . The main reason for this is that a neutral fault can result in a high voltage being present the metal structure of the mobile unit , so someone walks up, touches the van and provides a path back to earth (in other words gets electrocuted!) the RCD’s won’t protect anyone as their earth ref is lost, anyone inside the van would be ok , potentially unaware of a fault. The only way a mobile unit can be made safe when supplied with a TNCS is to provide a local earth by installing an earth rod, clearly this is not always practical as you may be on tarmac, and won’t know if there are any pipes or cables that you are about to spear with the earth rod! Without electrically testing you won’t be sure that the earth rod impedance is low enough and at a practical level it a pain to remove when you leave. The mobile unit should have an electrical certificate (most electricians can provide this) and as the designer /manufacturer you have an obligation to provide the operation with the correct instructions to operate safely. This all may sound complicated and over the top, but there have been or than a few fatalities related to incorrectly wired or operated mobile units. An electrician will be able to advise better when the see the unit and issue the electrical cert and operating guidelines. If you google “mobile catering electrical” there is a load of stuff, and there is a chap called John Ward who ha created a load of really good electrical installation tutorials. Cheers Dave
Hi Dom, have you thought about fitting some solar real estate on the roof along with a MPPT controller to get the max power from the panels. Also if you use a split charger and you are using mains power at an event you can run all the 12 volt equipment and 240 volt equipment plus charge your batteries at the same time and if you want to go the full hog charge the batteries while travelling.
Hi Dom the build is looking brilliant. With regards to charging had you considered a split charging system that will charge the batteries while the vehicle is running you can get a voltage sensitive relay that switches when alternator voltage is recognised. They use the same system in a lot of camper builds. Love the channel and looking forward to you delivering the Vespa 👍
Yes I’ve discussed this with Dan, I am going to leave that to the new owners if they feel they need it after using it for a bit. There’s so many things I could do.. I have to stop somewhere!
Love that Tuscan... saw a lady race one at Oulton Park back in 2001-ish time frame. Same color - could have easily been the same car. Totally unique exhaust note - beautiful car.
Hi Dom, I'm loving all of the videos, but this series especially. For the 16A power hook-up: I would recommend using an 'inlet' type (plug, rather than socket) to comply with convention. This means that the 'live' connection is tucked away when the cable is connected and so won't spark if the cable is accidentally powered when 'hooked up'. Panel mount style are more compact allowing a straight feed though the panel. However they tend to be rated only to IP44 so not really waterproof. Wall mounted inlets usually point down, angle slightly away from the wall. They can be trickier to connect but usually have a IP66 or 67 rating. Be very careful with the bolting pattern as I have found that, while the main through hole is reasonably standard across a range of manufacturers, the mounting bolt pattern is infuriatingly different, sometimes by just a few mm. Also - it might be worth considering making access to the inlet 'tamperproof'.
If the machine has been sitting around for a while Dom, I would get it serviced before you try to use it. In the video you have water coming from the steam wands but no pressure in the boiler, that means it is over filled, that can be dangerous if heated ( no expansion room for the water) & safety valves tend to stick shut when you most need them ( the pssr test that others have mentioned would test the safety valve) Loving the work!
Seeing you and Dan fiddling with the coffee machine reminded me of the times when we me and Dawn are doing stuff on our narrowboat project - we fiddle and faff around til it works aswell!
Hi Dom just another note about your Defender Hook up if it’s used at local Authority events the 16A cables should be Arctic Blue electric flex for 230volt circuits
Just some thoughts about your battery situation - Gel batteries should not be discharged more than 50% - even deep cycle gel probably shouldn't go lower than about 40%. So, in your bank you effectively have 110 Ah of usable power. Hopefully you have done a survey of the amperage pulled by each of the components, if so you will be able to get a very good idea of how long things will run for. You won't need to be drinking coffee until it breaks. You need a decent management system so the users can tell when they have hit 50% ish, this won't stop them serving coffee, but at least they can turn the engine on and put some juice back in the bank. This is the reason most festival type food and beverage vendors run a small generator, cheaper and quieter than a Landie engine bumping along in the background. Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Dan has worked on al of this, It’s not that simple to put a definite time on how long it will run as it depends on which drinks are ordered etc.. the inverter and charger are both very clever and will talk to your phone with Bluetooth to tell charge percentages etc.. like you say, a small generator could be plugged in to the external socket to charge it back up!
Dom I would use a boat shore-power connector and a shore-power cable - the same thing is available as a camper-van part. It is not a socket as such because the thing going into it has to be a socket for safety reasons - it is a shielded plug effectively. A boat connector will he more weatherproof I suspect.
Hi Dom, you need an IEC60309 plug blue for 240 volt. MK have the commando range which are a good industry standard. For an aesthetic look I would try a chandler's or caravan camping shop they do nice flush plugs under flaps. Re the pumps they only need to overcome the pressure in the boiler when steamed up so it's more pressure than flow.
Another fantastic update dom all your videos are so informative and interesting can't wait to see updates I'd advise anyone to watch the back catalogue it's great to see the journey
You’re correct with the wiring of the batteries, but you will only get a total of 110 amps out of them as the total useable amperage of a lead acid battery is only about 50% of the claimed output even when new. Could I suggest a solar panel to keep the battery bank topped up. As well as an emergency generator. Great video, thanks.
Wowzers, it’s really taking shape. Can’t wait for the next update. Love the shots of Wendy 🐾🐕 at the end. The technical bits that you and your brother did, blew my mind a bit. What a lush car he has, glad he could drive it to see you because the weather was good.
Don't forget you need to put some fuses as close as possible to the batteries - if not any short in the 12V wiring will result in the batteries burning out the wiring and probably setting the Landi on fire ! You also need to think about earthing of all the metalwork in the Landi both when it is running on external & inverter power. I don't think you can rely on the 16 Amp external source having an RCCB. There is a whole section in the Wiring regulations about power supplies for caravans and boats that you probably need to comply with - good luck.
@@DominicChineas Thinking about it you need to have a fuse for each battery which will provide some protection against the self destruction if a cell goes short circuit in one battery. My preferred connection method would be to have a separate mains charger for each battery - the indicator lights on the chargers would help with showing how healthy the battery is. The output of the two batteries could be combined either using one of the 'diode isolators' or else a two way change over switch. The modern diode isolators in fact use FET transistors as diodes so have a lower loss than Shottky diodes. You also need to get your Gas Safe designer involved as finding a suitably accessible vented space for two gas cylinders needs thinking about before you fit too many other things. It easier on a caravan as they put them on the tow bar either exposed or in a fiberglass box - easy to vent them away from sparks. Boats are even more difficult but that is another story - hopefully they are better designed now boats have to have a CE or now the UK equivalent certificate before they can be sold.
@@andymccabe6712 Dom said in the video that he is not an electrician - I don't know what level of expertise in this area his brother has - we did not get much time to view the circuit sketch. In terms of the gas supplies they have not been mentioned in the videos so far - it came as a bit of a revelation the coffee machine would run on gas. The requirements for the gas cylinders both physical and ventilation place quite a lot of constraints on the interior design so I hope he has left space for them that allows them to be changed. I suppose the weight may need to be considered as well to balance the vehicle.
Great Vid. For the external 16A commando plug (the unit does have pins and is therefore male, and the supply will be a female) you need at least a splashproof, like caravans or narrowboats have.
@@DominicChineas www.maypoleltd.com/product/mp5985b-240v-16a-black-mains-flush-fit-socket/ Me and my mate wired his sisters VW day van conversion last year and fitted one of the above items to it. Went with that one because her van was black but it wouldn’t stand out as much as a normal white/blue commando socket on the landy.
You could put an air trap between the pumps to stop air getting into the second pump. Remember you are running water out of the machine whereas is should have a full coffee cartridge restricting the water flow.
I'm sure it's too late now, as I've only got this far binge watching, but the proximity of the battery terminals to metalwork worried me a bit. I'm sure it's all insulated up well by now.
awesome Dom to see the continuation of the defender great to see ya bro helping too cool video keep posting it will be so brilliant to watch the defender working :)
as per other comments a commando plug and socket is what you would need for the hook up they come in various styles, Have you checked the inverter is matches the needs of what you are going to attach to it i looked quite a low power rating if you are looking to run all the kit at the same time i could not see if it was a pure sine wave unit , they can also take a heavy current draw so i would get your brother to look at the total start up current draw and the running current so you know how long the batteries will last (a 110 Ah battery should only be discharged to around 50%) I would be a good option if you have the space to consider solar panels this would need to be linked via a MPPT regulator for the best results try the roadpro web site for some info on this.
Thanks for the info! A lot of this goes over my head but I trust my brothers calculations and suggestions, it should all be ok! Appreciate the information thank you
Should have gone for Lithium batteries. Gel batteries will die much quicker than you think. A 110AHr gel only has as much usable power as a 55AHr Lithium. You can also add a DCDC charger to charge the batteries from the alternator.
Hi Dom, Given the "coffee machine" batteries are 12VDC and this is LandRover Defender then you could add split charging so the "coffee machine" batteries get charged by the vehicle whilst the customer is driving to site. If they ran out of time with the mains charger then it would at least get some charge into the batteries... Just a thought.
Definitely a possibility! We did discuss it, but opens a can of worms with needing a larger alternator etc.. this way we haven’t modified the original wiring at all
@@DominicChineas Dom, I quite understand. When I added split charge to my Td5 Defender I didn't change the alternator - after all it gives out about 100 Amps as standard. I have the LandRover 12S trailer socket kit which came with the voltage dependant relay to control the relays for the fridge supply and caravan battery charging. The "coffee machine" batteries are, effectively, the same as a caravan battery ( just not in a trailer ). Wiring is confined to the battery box and it's all "plug 'n' play" so the main vehicle loom is unaltered.
I can't remember if the Defender is a commission or if it is just a Dom creation to sell as a self contained business or some such. Sounds like you have total license. I didn't think I'd ever want a Defender more, but one that makes proper coffee 😋
That's going to be really impressive when it's finished. I wonder if you have been tempted at any point to just put in a kettle and a big jar of Nescafé. Re. your brother's car...what kind of witchcraft is going on with the colour? Is it blue, pink, silver, grey or purple? 💚🐇🐴💚
I hate to ask Dom', but have you managed to sort out the plumbing for the coffee machine, and working as you’d like it to? Would love to see the updates!
Just need to add some solar panels to keep the batteries charged if they are off line for the day. Mount them on the roof or you can get the foldable ones these days.
Having just started watching, please excuse if I missed something, but… my (12 year's of use) setup uses open vented (180L) water tank->rotary espresso pump (adjusted to provide 9 bar water pressure-> coffee machine inlet. No inline filter is necessary, as the water is already filtered. You DON'T need the 12VDC pump to feed the rotary pump. It might be better used to pressurise any external water supply through the filter and into the water tank when refilling. Rather than using the pressure switch to activate it (eg when a tap is opened), I have a manual 12VDC switch to operate it as needed. This avoids the pipework being under pressure constantly. The rotary pump is at floor level, fed by gravity from the water tank. It then pushes the water up ~900mm to the espresso machine inlet. My espresso machine (a San Marino 2 group) is also gas/electric, using LPG and only a 10A supply, as the electric element is only 1800W. To heat from cold using gas only, takes around 50 minutes, with AC as well, 15 minutes total. The "shower" in the centre of your machine is the boiling water delivery, directly from the boiler, and requires full pressure to operate. Taking more than a cup of water from it however, affects the extraction and steam pressure (for milk stretching) quite markedly, so we found a separate (Gas?) boiling water supply is useful for teas and Americanos. Outside on the vehicle is a female 16A caravan socket, and a matching plug to fit, with 10A mains plug on the cable end. This can plug into almost any household mains supply (via an RCD inside the vehicle) OR a 3 kVA inverter generator (eg Honda eu30is) to provide independant power. The espressso machine and grinder can be connected to an inverter and batteries when needed, but I think you’ll find that 800 W is insufficient to run both at the same time (from my experience). Hope this helps.
That’s really helpful! Thank you very much for sending all of that information over! I really appreciate it! Running on a generator is definitely an option that will work
@@DominicChineas you’re most welcome Dom! What’s the point of having experience if you can’t share it, and save others some headaches. I enjoy watching your videos on the repair shop and your own projects. Main difference between yours and mine is that you actually do them! Most of mine are still in the planning stages, and I’ve yet to find/build a workshop to complete them. Enjoy your northern hemisphere summer; our southern hemisphere winter is just starting to get cold.
're coffee mc, so coffee pump needs to be set at 9.5bar when extracting coffee. The coffee pumps don't like air as they have a graphite vein in them,steam pressure will be about 1.1bar at working pressure,then you can get steam out and v hot water! I also thought the mc has it's own gas or mains power switch ? You also might need to find a sink to clean out the milk jugs with once used. Hope it helps
Thanks for the info! Appreciate it The machine does have a switch, but we need the second switch so the machine won’t try use the electric heater from the batteries, needs to be from the mains
@@DominicChineas hi thanks for reply,another thing you might want to get for the client is a pressure test done on the mc before it goes off to work, find Mark Allen espress test,he has contractors over the uk mark is in Devon, although mc is new I think,you said it has been 18 months,from factory,it only has a 14 month certificate to it,it will be in the box with all the paperwork, fracino can do it or if in Cornwall mark Allen esspress test,they will need excess to the boiler,can be done with a camara aswell,as new,they will check the seems of the boiler welds,inside and out,test the safety valve under steam pressure and cold,and if it passes give it another 12 month certificate. Hope that helps.
Dom, an improvement would be to fit an accumulator tank to the sureflow pump. This will help maintain a good constant water pressure. I have on file somewhere details of all of the parts required i.e. accumulator tank etc. I could forward these to you if you wish but not sure how best to contact you.
Great video again dom. How about the electric caravan hook up lead. Apologies if someone has already mentioned this, haven't read the other posts. We use our caravan on 12v leisure battery, and other times we use the hook up lead.
If in doubt call a coffee machine engineer..... The procon pump should be enough to draw water to the machine on it's own. We set up machines like this all the time. The hot water for the coffee goes through a heat exchange unit inside the boiler and the hot water for tea ect, is from the boiler. You should not get hot water till the right pressure in the boiler is reached. The only thing is if you use a Britta filter you need to prime it first. ... Great job so far. B. Ward. (Coffee Senior Coffee Machine Engineer.) P.S. I've never come across a electric/Gas one before.
Hi Dom, from South Africa, caravans use some sort of waterproof sleeve-enclosed three pin plug on their outside wall, that you plug a 240V 16A cable and corresponding female plug into, that should work on the Defender. We have round pins here, but the 3 pin socket principle should be available in the UK?? All caravan manufacturers must surely use them? Thanks for the video!
Hi Dom, Just thinking aloud here….. So only a 40 litre water tank? How many coffees will that make… a hundred at most? so charging say, £3.50 / £4.00 per coffee you ain’t gonner make a lot of money to cover your outlay or running costs…. and you could potentially run out of water after only an hour of setting up and then it’s game over . Your electrics may run all day but your going to need a bigger water tank if you want this thing to keep going all day too. All the best Richard
Thanks for the message! It’s ok, if they need more water for a busy day they can carry some water cans on the roof rack and refill the tank, or find a water source where they are.. space is limited inside the back and I think 40l is a good compromise!
Hi Dom, I’m glad it’s been thought through…… good luck with the rest of the conversion and who knew that setting up a coffee maker was so involved…. I just plug mine into the wall and I’m good to go ! 😉
@@ianstewartbrown5308 No Ian, my Brother had a Discovery we used ti take on fishing trips, and the water tank was bolted to the roof rack, we had our mini sink and tea earn in the back..
The "socket" you require for an external supply is called an appliance inlet, example - www.distributionzone.com/products/plugs-sockets/appliance-inlets-panel-wall-mount-plugs
Presumably, if the end users wanted to, they could attach a 230v petrol generator via the external socket (if the worst happened and the batteries died).
Great Video Dom, really enjoy your stuff, could you also add a roof solar panel to keep the twin 12 bolt battery’s topped up? We had one on my Motor Home and was very useful. Keep up the good work 👍
I was wondering he wasn't using a split charge device so it could be charged from the Defender's engine. And I hope the batteries won't need absolutely everything removed before they can be changed!
Coffee pressure is created by the boiler, the pump is to inject and refill the boiler. Electrical side get a sparks that knows that part of bs7671 electrical safety and proper earthing is easy to get wrong if you don't know what you are doing
Steam pressure is created by the boiler, the pump creates the 8 bar needed to extract the coffee, hence the green band on the gauge. The pump also refills the boiler, depending on what valve is opened, when you draw hot water for instance.
Looks great Dom. One question, have you considered access to change a battery? It looks a bit tight in there and a dodgy battery or a cracked one will need changing.
Yeah access will be from the cab, there will be plenty of space to slide them out, I am going to put the water tank on the other side for this reason.. should be perfect!
They have internal fans for cooling, I am mounting them out in the open so they will have plenty of air. The repair shop sign Charger is shut in a box permanently and it’s been fine for ages! They are very good units
@@DominicChineas that’s great, don’t know why I’d be worried about condensation and what not but I guess there are loads of van based coffee machines and they get by just fine! Thanks for the reply. Good luck with all the projects, love the channel. 👍
There’s some good space for consumables here and there, they can fit a split charge if they want to, they didn’t plan to be driving long distances though
The 16a connector you need is the type fitted to a caravan DO NOT FORGET IT IS A PLUG on the Defender not a socket and the you will need to provide two leads one 13A plug top to a 16A blue socket and one 16A blue plug to a 16A blue socket
Hi Dom ,It wasn't clear from the video so I dont understand why you are sucking water from the top of the tank.Is there a reason the outlet cannot be at the bottom of the tank as this would eliminate the air in the system.
@@DominicChineas It was just an option as i did something similar to my series IIA, so when off grid i could still recharge the two 12v 190 AH leisure batteries
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Dom if you had the space you could have easily solved the pump problem by flooding the suction inlet of the original pump. This should be achieved by taking a tapping from or near the bottom of you feed water tank.
It’s patently obvious Dom, that you are putting an awful lot of thought into this project, it must be very rewarding to see it coming together. 👏👍🙂
I hope all your doing for this couple is worth it and they want it now after all that hard work lets hope they still want this coffee, tea, making machine shop any way good luck with it..by the way you never tell us weather theirs a little lady waiting at home for you .?. except the dog who.s rarely cute and almost goes every where with you.
Dom , apologise if this is already covered, I haven’t read all the comments but it safety related so important.
Electrical protection for mobile units is a bit of a minefield, as well as the regs you must adhere to there are other considerations:
What protection are you installing, it would normally be an RCD, however this won cover all situations as I’ll explained below
What protection does the output of the inverter require, does it have an earth neutral bond in which case an RCD could be fitted or is it floating 240v (like a shaver socket)
Bonding of metal bits, electrical things can develop faults, you don’t want to be able to touch 2 different things that have a different electrical potential. This is especially important if you have a supply that doesn’t have an earth neutral bond (this is why shaver sockets only have one output, so you can’t plug 2 devices in that are not bonded)
And the real challenge is knowing what sort of earth you are going to get from an external 240v supply. There are 3 earthing systems in the UK: TT, this is where the supply is Line & Neutral only and you would normally then have to install an earth rod locally, used to be common where the supply was by overhead cables in rural areas. Second is TN-S this has the neutral of the source of energy connected with earth at one point only, at or as near as is reasonably practicable to the source and the consumer's earthing terminal, practically this was achieved where the cable was underground with a lead sheath, this was the most common form of earthing in the UK up to the 60’s. Thirdly, TNCS often called PME (Protective Multiple Earthing). The Neutral and Earth wires are combined within the supply cable. At the property, the Neutral and Earth are separated, with the earth terminal usually being on the side of the cut-out. Inside the cut-out, the earth and neutral are linked. Throughout the supply network, the combined earth/neutral conductor is connected to the ground in multiple places, either buried underground or at the poles for overhead supplies, this is the most common arrangement in the UK today.
Why knowing the earthing matters; facilities like caravan parks have to meet regulations that includes adding additional protection at the point where the caravaner hooks up, they are effectively a TN-S system with individual RCD protection. Things get more tricky with mobile catering as the mobile unit can rock up at an event in a field that’s supplied by a generator or a hotel car park with a supply from a hotel. If a generator is the generator supplying a floating 240v or does it have the earth an neutral bonded? With no earth reference RCD’s cannot protect against earth faults. If it’s a TNCS supply its technically a nonstarter to rely on the earth for a mobile unit, regulations only permit it if the equipment is being operated by an electrically competent person (an electrician, so not very practical!) . The main reason for this is that a neutral fault can result in a high voltage being present the metal structure of the mobile unit , so someone walks up, touches the van and provides a path back to earth (in other words gets electrocuted!) the RCD’s won’t protect anyone as their earth ref is lost, anyone inside the van would be ok , potentially unaware of a fault. The only way a mobile unit can be made safe when supplied with a TNCS is to provide a local earth by installing an earth rod, clearly this is not always practical as you may be on tarmac, and won’t know if there are any pipes or cables that you are about to spear with the earth rod! Without electrically testing you won’t be sure that the earth rod impedance is low enough and at a practical level it a pain to remove when you leave.
The mobile unit should have an electrical certificate (most electricians can provide this) and as the designer /manufacturer you have an obligation to provide the operation with the correct instructions to operate safely. This all may sound complicated and over the top, but there have been or than a few fatalities related to incorrectly wired or operated mobile units. An electrician will be able to advise better when the see the unit and issue the electrical cert and operating guidelines. If you google “mobile catering electrical” there is a load of stuff, and there is a chap called John Ward who ha created a load of really good electrical installation tutorials.
Cheers
Dave
Chandlery for waterproof plug socket. You will need a vent for the fumes from the battery box
Hi Dom, have you thought about fitting some solar real estate on the roof along with a MPPT controller to get the max power from the panels. Also if you use a split charger and you are using mains power at an event you can run all the 12 volt equipment and 240 volt equipment plus charge your batteries at the same time and if you want to go the full hog charge the batteries while travelling.
Hi Dom the build is looking brilliant. With regards to charging had you considered a split charging system that will charge the batteries while the vehicle is running you can get a voltage sensitive relay that switches when alternator voltage is recognised. They use the same system in a lot of camper builds. Love the channel and looking forward to you delivering the Vespa 👍
Yes I’ve discussed this with Dan, I am going to leave that to the new owners if they feel they need it after using it for a bit.
There’s so many things I could do.. I have to stop somewhere!
Just love your enthusiasm Dom
Love that Tuscan... saw a lady race one at Oulton Park back in 2001-ish time frame. Same color - could have easily been the same car. Totally unique exhaust note - beautiful car.
Hi Dom,
I'm loving all of the videos, but this series especially.
For the 16A power hook-up:
I would recommend using an 'inlet' type (plug, rather than socket) to comply with convention. This means that the 'live' connection is tucked away when the cable is connected and so won't spark if the cable is accidentally powered when 'hooked up'.
Panel mount style are more compact allowing a straight feed though the panel. However they tend to be rated only to IP44 so not really waterproof.
Wall mounted inlets usually point down, angle slightly away from the wall. They can be trickier to connect but usually have a IP66 or 67 rating.
Be very careful with the bolting pattern as I have found that, while the main through hole is reasonably standard across a range of manufacturers, the mounting bolt pattern is infuriatingly different, sometimes by just a few mm.
Also - it might be worth considering making access to the inlet 'tamperproof'.
If the machine has been sitting around for a while Dom, I would get it serviced before you try to use it.
In the video you have water coming from the steam wands but no pressure in the boiler, that means it is over filled, that can be dangerous if heated ( no expansion room for the water) & safety valves tend to stick shut when you most need them ( the pssr test that others have mentioned would test the safety valve)
Loving the work!
super Dan just like me :). two brits learning about coffee machines love it
Seeing you and Dan fiddling with the coffee machine reminded me of the times when we me and Dawn are doing stuff on our narrowboat project - we fiddle and faff around til it works aswell!
Hi Dom you need an enclosed splash proof plug (like caravans have ). enjoying your channel mate
Hi Dom just another note about your Defender Hook up if it’s used at local Authority events the 16A cables should be Arctic Blue electric flex for 230volt circuits
Just some thoughts about your battery situation - Gel batteries should not be discharged more than 50% - even deep cycle gel probably shouldn't go lower than about 40%. So, in your bank you effectively have 110 Ah of usable power. Hopefully you have done a survey of the amperage pulled by each of the components, if so you will be able to get a very good idea of how long things will run for. You won't need to be drinking coffee until it breaks. You need a decent management system so the users can tell when they have hit 50% ish, this won't stop them serving coffee, but at least they can turn the engine on and put some juice back in the bank. This is the reason most festival type food and beverage vendors run a small generator, cheaper and quieter than a Landie engine bumping along in the background. Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Dan has worked on al of this, It’s not that simple to put a definite time on how long it will run as it depends on which drinks are ordered etc..
the inverter and charger are both very clever and will talk to your phone with Bluetooth to tell charge percentages etc.. like you say, a small generator could be plugged in to the external socket to charge it back up!
@@DominicChineas Got to love Victron! Expensive, but the best available IMHO.
Dom I would use a boat shore-power connector and a shore-power cable - the same thing is available as a camper-van part. It is not a socket as such because the thing going into it has to be a socket for safety reasons - it is a shielded plug effectively. A boat connector will he more weatherproof I suspect.
Bear in mind that caterers are notorious in the event trade for their "optimistic" approach to electric loading!
It's getting there now, Dom. Can't wait to see the finished article.
for external sockets i always look at marine stuff ..... those boaty types have some good gear
Hi Dom, you need an IEC60309 plug blue for 240 volt. MK have the commando range which are a good industry standard. For an aesthetic look I would try a chandler's or caravan camping shop they do nice flush plugs under flaps.
Re the pumps they only need to overcome the pressure in the boiler when steamed up so it's more pressure than flow.
Another fantastic update dom all your videos are so informative and interesting can't wait to see updates I'd advise anyone to watch the back catalogue it's great to see the journey
You’re correct with the wiring of the batteries, but you will only get a total of 110 amps out of them as the total useable amperage of a lead acid battery is only about 50% of the claimed output even when new. Could I suggest a solar panel to keep the battery bank topped up. As well as an emergency generator. Great video, thanks.
Yay! Great to see the progress on the Defender. I can smell the coffee 😜 Amazing work Dom and Dan 👏👏
Thank you!!
Hello Dom,
Good progress by you and your brother... Well done...
Take care.
Paul,,
Great progress Dom and loved that TVR. Kind regards, Richard.
Hi Dom, Keep taking the head ache tables, It all sent to try us , You will get There. All the Best Brian 🤗
Brilliant as always, excited about how it goes. 🤞 keep up the good work
Wowzers, it’s really taking shape. Can’t wait for the next update. Love the shots of Wendy 🐾🐕 at the end. The technical bits that you and your brother did, blew my mind a bit. What a lush car he has, glad he could drive it to see you because the weather was good.
Clever stuff, I followed some it. Thanks Dom and Dan. Best wishes
Wow there was a lot of problem solving going on there, great to see the Defender coming together. Great coffee from a cool car coming soon!
Hi you will need an appliance inlet socket for the Land Rover, that is a socket with male pins
Thank you!
Another great video Dom. looking forward to the next one. All the very best
Coming on well Dom.👍👍
Don't forget you need to put some fuses as close as possible to the batteries - if not any short in the 12V wiring will result in the batteries burning out the wiring and probably setting the Landi on fire !
You also need to think about earthing of all the metalwork in the Landi both when it is running on external & inverter power. I don't think you can rely on the 16 Amp external source having an RCCB. There is a whole section in the Wiring regulations about power supplies for caravans and boats that you probably need to comply with - good luck.
Thank you for the message!
Don’t worry all of that is in hand! It will all be done correctly and safely
@@DominicChineas Thinking about it you need to have a fuse for each battery which will provide some protection against the self destruction if a cell goes short circuit in one battery. My preferred connection method would be to have a separate mains charger for each battery - the indicator lights on the chargers would help with showing how healthy the battery is. The output of the two batteries could be combined either using one of the 'diode isolators' or else a two way change over switch. The modern diode isolators in fact use FET transistors as diodes so have a lower loss than Shottky diodes.
You also need to get your Gas Safe designer involved as finding a suitably accessible vented space for two gas cylinders needs thinking about before you fit too many other things. It easier on a caravan as they put them on the tow bar either exposed or in a fiberglass box - easy to vent them away from sparks. Boats are even more difficult but that is another story - hopefully they are better designed now boats have to have a CE or now the UK equivalent certificate before they can be sold.
@@johnmurrell3175 you seem to have spent a lot of time telling Dom stuff he told you he already knows..!
RUclips, eh......?!!
@@andymccabe6712 Dom said in the video that he is not an electrician - I don't know what level of expertise in this area his brother has - we did not get much time to view the circuit sketch. In terms of the gas supplies they have not been mentioned in the videos so far - it came as a bit of a revelation the coffee machine would run on gas. The requirements for the gas cylinders both physical and ventilation place quite a lot of constraints on the interior design so I hope he has left space for them that allows them to be changed. I suppose the weight may need to be considered as well to balance the vehicle.
Good Luck Dom all going well & i like your brothers car.
Take care.
Highlight of my Sunday mornings. Coffee and Dom’s videos.
Mine too xoxo
Great Vid. For the external 16A commando plug (the unit does have pins and is therefore male, and the supply will be a female) you need at least a splashproof, like caravans or narrowboats have.
Thank you nice one
@@DominicChineas www.maypoleltd.com/product/mp5985b-240v-16a-black-mains-flush-fit-socket/
Me and my mate wired his sisters VW day van conversion last year and fitted one of the above items to it. Went with that one because her van was black but it wouldn’t stand out as much as a normal white/blue commando socket on the landy.
You could put an air trap between the pumps to stop air getting into the second pump. Remember you are running water out of the machine whereas is should have a full coffee cartridge restricting the water flow.
Hi Dom, didn't understand any of that, but most enjoyable to watch.
Nice peel out by bruv.
Less is more!
Neither do I… thank you for watching though! Glad you enjoyed it
Beautiful job!
You should think about a solar panel on the roof to charge the lesiure batteries too - you can get conformal ones......
Hi Dom try Lewden sockets they are industrial waterproof quite pricey !
Perfect thank you!
Oh Dom, my brain is hurting. But it all sounds very exciting.
I love how raw the footage is...drunk camera....hahaha! Looking forward to seeing coffee flowing..👍
It’s hard to film everything myself and still be productive and get things done! It is a bit shaky, but it’s all very real!
One wonders if Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall encountered similar issues when constructing his Gastro Wagon all those years ago? 🤔
I'm sure it's too late now, as I've only got this far binge watching, but the proximity of the battery terminals to metalwork worried me a bit. I'm sure it's all insulated up well by now.
awesome Dom to see the continuation of the defender great to see ya bro helping too cool video keep posting it will be so brilliant to watch the defender working :)
Great vid again Dom, thank you..
Your so welcome! Thanks for watching
as per other comments a commando plug and socket is what you would need for the hook up they come in various styles, Have you checked the inverter is matches the needs of what you are going to attach to it i looked quite a low power rating if you are looking to run all the kit at the same time i could not see if it was a pure sine wave unit , they can also take a heavy current draw so i would get your brother to look at the total start up current draw and the running current so you know how long the batteries will last (a 110 Ah battery should only be discharged to around 50%) I would be a good option if you have the space to consider solar panels this would need to be linked via a MPPT regulator for the best results try the roadpro web site for some info on this.
Thanks for the info! A lot of this goes over my head but I trust my brothers calculations and suggestions, it should all be ok!
Appreciate the information thank you
Should have gone for Lithium batteries. Gel batteries will die much quicker than you think. A 110AHr gel only has as much usable power as a 55AHr Lithium. You can also add a DCDC charger to charge the batteries from the alternator.
Another great video Dom. Really enjoying this project with all the detail.👍🏻👌🏻
Thank you!
Hi Dom,
Given the "coffee machine" batteries are 12VDC and this is LandRover Defender then you could add split charging so the "coffee machine" batteries get charged by the vehicle whilst the customer is driving to site. If they ran out of time with the mains charger then it would at least get some charge into the batteries... Just a thought.
Definitely a possibility! We did discuss it, but opens a can of worms with needing a larger alternator etc.. this way we haven’t modified the original wiring at all
@@DominicChineas Dom,
I quite understand. When I added split charge to my Td5 Defender I didn't change the alternator - after all it gives out about 100 Amps as standard. I have the LandRover 12S trailer socket kit which came with the voltage dependant relay to control the relays for the fridge supply and caravan battery charging. The "coffee machine" batteries are, effectively, the same as a caravan battery ( just not in a trailer ). Wiring is confined to the battery box and it's all "plug 'n' play" so the main vehicle loom is unaltered.
I can't remember if the Defender is a commission or if it is just a Dom creation to sell as a self contained business or some such. Sounds like you have total license. I didn't think I'd ever want a Defender more, but one that makes proper coffee 😋
It’s a commission for a client x
That's going to be really impressive when it's finished. I wonder if you have been tempted at any point to just put in a kettle and a big jar of Nescafé.
Re. your brother's car...what kind of witchcraft is going on with the colour? Is it blue, pink, silver, grey or purple?
💚🐇🐴💚
Don, did I miss you finishing the Defender coffee machine for people to have in Cornwall for the summer.
I hate to ask Dom', but have you managed to sort out the plumbing for the coffee machine, and working as you’d like it to? Would love to see the updates!
I will be working on it again very soon, plugging away at it gradually, we did get everything working as it should though..
Just need to add some solar panels to keep the batteries charged if they are off line for the day. Mount them on the roof or you can get the foldable ones these days.
I’m going to leave that for the owners to do if they want, I have to stop somewhere!
Having just started watching, please excuse if I missed something, but… my (12 year's of use) setup uses open vented (180L) water tank->rotary espresso pump (adjusted to provide 9 bar water pressure-> coffee machine inlet. No inline filter is necessary, as the water is already filtered. You DON'T need the 12VDC pump to feed the rotary pump. It might be better used to pressurise any external water supply through the filter and into the water tank when refilling. Rather than using the pressure switch to activate it (eg when a tap is opened), I have a manual 12VDC switch to operate it as needed. This avoids the pipework being under pressure constantly.
The rotary pump is at floor level, fed by gravity from the water tank. It then pushes the water up ~900mm to the espresso machine inlet.
My espresso machine (a San Marino 2 group) is also gas/electric, using LPG and only a 10A supply, as the electric element is only 1800W. To heat from cold using gas only, takes around 50 minutes, with AC as well, 15 minutes total.
The "shower" in the centre of your machine is the boiling water delivery, directly from the boiler, and requires full pressure to operate. Taking more than a cup of water from it however, affects the extraction and steam pressure (for milk stretching) quite markedly, so we found a separate (Gas?) boiling water supply is useful for teas and Americanos.
Outside on the vehicle is a female 16A caravan socket, and a matching plug to fit, with 10A mains plug on the cable end. This can plug into almost any household mains supply (via an RCD inside the vehicle) OR a 3 kVA inverter generator (eg Honda eu30is) to provide independant power.
The espressso machine and grinder can be connected to an inverter and batteries when needed, but I think you’ll find that 800 W is insufficient to run both at the same time (from my experience).
Hope this helps.
That’s really helpful! Thank you very much for sending all of that information over! I really appreciate it!
Running on a generator is definitely an option that will work
@@DominicChineas you’re most welcome Dom! What’s the point of having experience if you can’t share it, and save others some headaches. I enjoy watching your videos on the repair shop and your own projects. Main difference between yours and mine is that you actually do them! Most of mine are still in the planning stages, and I’ve yet to find/build a workshop to complete them. Enjoy your northern hemisphere summer; our southern hemisphere winter is just starting to get cold.
're coffee mc, so coffee pump needs to be set at 9.5bar when extracting coffee. The coffee pumps don't like air as they have a graphite vein in them,steam pressure will be about 1.1bar at working pressure,then you can get steam out and v hot water! I also thought the mc has it's own gas or mains power switch ? You also might need to find a sink to clean out the milk jugs with once used. Hope it helps
Thanks for the info! Appreciate it
The machine does have a switch, but we need the second switch so the machine won’t try use the electric heater from the batteries, needs to be from the mains
@@DominicChineas hi thanks for reply,another thing you might want to get for the client is a pressure test done on the mc before it goes off to work, find Mark Allen espress test,he has contractors over the uk mark is in Devon, although mc is new I think,you said it has been 18 months,from factory,it only has a 14 month certificate to it,it will be in the box with all the paperwork, fracino can do it or if in Cornwall mark Allen esspress test,they will need excess to the boiler,can be done with a camara aswell,as new,they will check the seems of the boiler welds,inside and out,test the safety valve under steam pressure and cold,and if it passes give it another 12 month certificate. Hope that helps.
great work dom as always..I enjoy watching you on tbe repair shop and your own video’s. Thanks for giving me so many idea’s
Keep it up Dom.
Dom, an improvement would be to fit an accumulator tank to the sureflow pump. This will help maintain a good constant water pressure. I have on file somewhere details of all of the parts required i.e. accumulator tank etc. I could forward these to you if you wish but not sure how best to contact you.
Don't know why they didn't fit one? Standard practice on a narrow boat.
Dom you could just mount the pump under the tank with a direct feed
Filter the water going into the tank
I’ve got a big Brita filter going in it’s ok!
Great video again dom. How about the electric caravan hook up lead. Apologies if someone has already mentioned this, haven't read the other posts. We use our caravan on 12v leisure battery, and other times we use the hook up lead.
Yeah something like that would work! Thank you
Great work just remember to fuse from the batteries I’ve seen a van destroyed in minutes without them
If in doubt call a coffee machine engineer..... The procon pump should be enough to draw water to the machine on it's own. We set up machines like this all the time. The hot water for the coffee goes through a heat exchange unit inside the boiler and the hot water for tea ect, is from the boiler. You should not get hot water till the right pressure in the boiler is reached. The only thing is if you use a Britta filter you need to prime it first. ... Great job so far. B. Ward. (Coffee Senior Coffee Machine Engineer.) P.S. I've never come across a electric/Gas one before.
Fracino sell loads of them - made in Birmingham
@@robgullen I know been there done the course.
Brilliant but mind blowing Video Dom - I think my brain has exploded. So I'm going to make coffee 👌😊
A trick you might like to try is put both ends in the same water. This equalises the back pressures.
Hi Dom, from South Africa, caravans use some sort of waterproof sleeve-enclosed three pin plug on their outside wall, that you plug a 240V 16A cable and corresponding female plug into, that should work on the Defender. We have round pins here, but the 3 pin socket principle should be available in the UK?? All caravan manufacturers must surely use them? Thanks for the video!
Hi Dom,
Just thinking aloud here…..
So only a 40 litre water tank? How many coffees will that make… a hundred at most? so charging say, £3.50 / £4.00 per coffee you ain’t gonner make a lot of money to cover your outlay or running costs…. and you could potentially run out of water after only an hour of setting up and then it’s game over .
Your electrics may run all day but your going to need a bigger water tank if you want this thing to keep going all day too.
All the best
Richard
Thanks for the message!
It’s ok, if they need more water for a busy day they can carry some water cans on the roof rack and refill the tank, or find a water source where they are..
space is limited inside the back and I think 40l is a good compromise!
Hi Dom,
I’m glad it’s been thought through…… good luck with the rest of the conversion and who knew that setting up a coffee maker was so involved…. I just plug mine into the wall and I’m good to go ! 😉
Had the same thought, then realised if needed, the owner could attach a water bowser to the back and make brews for the world! 💯👍🏻😁
Hahaha tell me about it! I am enjoying learning along the way
Yeah, I’ve made it nice and easy to refill the tank whenever they need
Dom, is there any reason why you couldn't mount your water tank high up so that the supply was gravity fed ??..
Wouldn't that make the vehicle unstable?
@@ianstewartbrown5308 No Ian, my Brother had a Discovery we used ti take on fishing trips, and the water tank was bolted to the roof rack, we had our mini sink and tea earn in the back..
The "socket" you require for an external supply is called an appliance inlet, example - www.distributionzone.com/products/plugs-sockets/appliance-inlets-panel-wall-mount-plugs
Nice motor!
It’s coming together soon you’ll be able to make coffee whenever you want one!!
I can’t wait!
Cavitate I think is the word you were looking for Dom :) but freak out could be the new Cavitate :)
Maybe it’s just me that was freaking out haha
Presumably, if the end users wanted to, they could attach a 230v petrol generator via the external socket (if the worst happened and the batteries died).
Yep exactly! Sorry I forgot to mention that scenario! It will work just fine
Great Video Dom, really enjoy your stuff, could you also add a roof solar panel to keep the twin 12 bolt battery’s topped up? We had one on my Motor Home and was very useful. Keep up the good work 👍
I was wondering he wasn't using a split charge device so it could be charged from the Defender's engine. And I hope the batteries won't need absolutely everything removed before they can be changed!
I was wondering when you would get back to this lol
What's the only time a Tuscan doesn't sound good?
When its run out of petrol and you're waiting for the RAC...
Brilliant as always Dom
Why not force water out of the tank by raising the air pressure in the tank?
Coffee pressure is created by the boiler, the pump is to inject and refill the boiler.
Electrical side get a sparks that knows that part of bs7671 electrical safety and proper earthing is easy to get wrong if you don't know what you are doing
Thank you for the info, luckily Dan knows exactly what he is doing! I’m in safe hands!
Steam pressure is created by the boiler, the pump creates the 8 bar needed to extract the coffee, hence the green band on the gauge. The pump also refills the boiler, depending on what valve is opened, when you draw hot water for instance.
Looks great Dom. One question, have you considered access to change a battery? It looks a bit tight in there and a dodgy battery or a cracked one will need changing.
Yeah access will be from the cab, there will be plenty of space to slide them out, I am going to put the water tank on the other side for this reason.. should be perfect!
Good old Shurflo, as in Surely it must Flow at some point 😂. The bane of wannabee-showering canalboaters everywhere!!
My head just exploded!!!! 😨
Hi Dom. I look forward to updates on this. Will the batteries/pumps/inverters etc require any cooling or insulation?
They have internal fans for cooling, I am mounting them out in the open so they will have plenty of air.
The repair shop sign Charger is shut in a box permanently and it’s been fine for ages! They are very good units
@@DominicChineas that’s great, don’t know why I’d be worried about condensation and what not but I guess there are loads of van based coffee machines and they get by just fine! Thanks for the reply. Good luck with all the projects, love the channel. 👍
What a great project Dom - looks like you have all the power avenues covered there. Dans TVR is fabulous - does he get his tyres for nowt?
Camera shy Dan ❤️
How long will the car batteries keep it running for?
Yeah maybe his brother would rather not be on film!!
That depends how many coffees they make, honest answer is I am not exactly sure at the moment! Lots though!
@@snooziesuzi he’s brother doesn’t mind, he would given Dom permission :)
Yer a Wizard Dom!
Why not split charge? Space for consumables?
There’s some good space for consumables here and there, they can fit a split charge if they want to, they didn’t plan to be driving long distances though
The 16a connector you need is the type fitted to a caravan DO NOT FORGET IT IS A PLUG on the Defender not a socket and the you will need to provide two leads one 13A plug top to a 16A blue socket and one 16A blue plug to a 16A blue socket
Hi Dom ,It wasn't clear from the video so I dont understand why you are sucking water from the top of the tank.Is there a reason the outlet cannot be at the bottom of the tank as this would eliminate the air in the system.
The outlet has a pipe that runs inside down to the bottom of the tank, the air was only coming in from the loose fitting!
The tank needs to be higher than the pump so that there is water at the pump inlet and it isn't sucking air.
It’s designed to suck from a tank just like I had it, works a treat!!
I think i would upgrade the alternator on the land rover as well
I think the extra batteries are charged from an external supply, hence Dom is looking for an external 16A socket.
Exactly! The original alternator is still doing the same job it’s always done.. I haven’t modified any of the original wiring
@@DominicChineas It was just an option as i did something similar to my series IIA, so when off grid i could still recharge the two 12v 190 AH leisure batteries
i've done this ..... all you need is; water tank ---> FLOJET pump (google it) -----> water filter ------> Espresso machine -----> (waste tank)
👍👍 keep them coming
Are you putting solar on the roof to charge the batteries durning the day
I won’t be, but this is something the owners can look into in the future if they want!
Did Dan’s rear window pop out when he shut the door? 🤔
Haha no it is removable!
yay