The thing I like most of the Word Bearers, is that they have remained largely united as a singular legion on par with the Black Legion. They are one of the largest remaining legions despite their inner turmoils and politicking.
Not only that but they also retained a lot of their martial discipline and organization. Their zealotry sort of overshadows the fact they are one of the most regimented and purpose driven factions among CSM. They look crazy as shit but most are a lot more calculating and reasonable than they appear, and the conniving and backstabbing seems contained mostly to the higher ranks which actually makes them less fucky than a lot of other warbands
@@bengonzalez5215 Thats always been my theory as well. The Black Templars are by and in large the only true "loyalist legion", as the blueberries and fists are broken into chapters that upon being called will reunite. This paralells the Black Legion almost perfectly, whilethe afore mentioned Templars and Word Bearers remain largely united at all times. It would be quite the clash to see them go at it..
In the Word Bearer series/omnibus, they emphasize that they are uniquely unified, and didn't fragment nearly as much as the other legions. There aren't different flavors of chapters/warbands because they are for the most part still a legion. They had the least to purge when they went chaos and have stayed faithful.
I totally agree, because if you see it logically, why the word bearers follow imperial rules? like the 2nd founding, and so on. They can do whatever they want xd. I know and understand that was a move made from GW to refresh their game. however, the lore sudggest otherwise xd
The reason is because the Word Bearers are an almost completely intact legion even in 40K. They’re united by their inherent gene loyalty, faith in Chaos, and total captivation with Daemon Lorgar who they consider a demigod pretty much. They also rarely if ever have deep disagreements or infighting like most legions since they’re all working towards the greater good of Chaos undivided.
@@jonharrison9222 That's true, but the Word Bearers are also one of the largest CSM legions and not all of them follow one of those two. Regardless, the differences between the different WBs is still small compared to other legions and warbands because they all follow The Book of Lorgar. Their faith is vindicated in the setting through their uniting sense of purpose.
It is easy for them to be flanderized but I think most warbands resembling the parent legion goes to show how even divided the Word Bearers remain true to who they are. Without Lorgar to bind them and with dickwads like Erebus taking huge swathes of them to go do Erebus things the legion is going to be splintered but they remain arguably the most organized Chaos Legion. Everyone in 40k is a Zealot, but how many of them actually get those prayers answered? In the Fabius Bile books a single Word Bearer is able to guide and mostly protect a small ship flying unprotected through the Maelstrom. Argel Tal was the first possessed but rather than be consumed by the Daemon he shared control of his body with it becoming something more. I love these crazy Zealots because they do Zealotry better than anyone in 40k imo and they are constantly justified in doing it.
Well said. It's easy to see the hyper religious legion in an negative light with real-world optics, so it's nice to see them being vindicated in stories to keep nuance. The interesting thing about the Word Bearers is that despite their seeming lunacy, there's an argument to be made for them; are the Chaos Gods not real? Does the Warp not work in ways that align with a worshiper's will with rituals? Is it not just pedantic to not call the Emperor of Mankind a god?
@@zonedoyestanderThe Word Bearers were alone the most successful legion post-Heresy. They basically won the entire thing and got their endgoal by turning the Imperium into what it is now. Only issue of course is a PISSSSSED Corvus hunting down their Primarch and the rest of the Galaxy HATING them. But besides that they get everything they want on a spiky silver platter.
I think model-wise, the Word Bearers are extremely well represented by the current core CSM range. Sure the box arts displays as Black Legion, but stuff like the Dark Apostle, Possessed marines, or the new cultists are just peak Word Bearer aesthetic. Just add it some chaos runes and you are good to go.
@@elf-lordsfriarofthemeadowl2039 I agree! I hope that someday all non-god aligned traitor legion get at least 1 character or kit, a bit like what the loyalist codex-compliant chapter gets (ex. White Scars, Salamanders, Fists etc. all getting at least 1 primaris character and an upgrade sprue).
As a huge Word Bearers fan i will try to clarify them. For one: They are the scientist of the legions. They try to understand the truth of their universe. 2: They are unified in purpose but not method. And the love debating others 3: worship and rituals are just their safety measures when dealing with something as dangerous as the warp. 4: i have no idea what you find "creepy" about Lorgar. 5: The fascination with Lorgar and the Word Bearers are they are horrible, but actually understands their universe. It's like everyone else were flat-earthers in comparison.
So to put it simply, the Word Bearers are still largely unified, especially when compared to the other legions. The way i see it is most word bearers warbands are effectively the modern version of chapters within a space marine legion. Where they are effectively a part of the word bearers legion, rather than a true splinter force. With some exceptions like the khorne specific warband that joined up with some world eaters.
Plain and simply, I believe the word bearers need to make a BIG comeback. They were the original traitors and had some of the hardest hitting moments in the Horus heresy
The thing is them all being in lockstep with eachother in terms of beliefs is a feature, not a bug, one of the selling points of the word bearers is that next to the black legion they are the closest to heresy era legion sized, its one of the things that makes them stand out. As to why in lore they are like this, thier zealotry and extreme value of doctrine in beleifs is what allows them to stick together like this.
@@patman123ist I don't think it's that so much as the fact that people really hate him because he's such a good villain - at least it is for me. I hate him so damned much; for me, that's actually quite refreshing. Quite a lot of media these days portrays villains as having sympathetic sides to them, which can have a chilling effect on their villainy. They run the risk of not being 'evil', and just being 'broken'. Erebus is just Erebus, purely evil because that's how he wants to be. I hate him so much, but I think that's quite cool - it's a mark of a good villain. He's awful, irredeemable and vile, but - and this is important - he's not inexplicable. We know WHY he's that way: it's because he's a horrible, horrible person. It's not just chaotic-stupid levels of evil; he's motivated by his nihilism. It's pretty good writing, I reckon. Can't speak for anyone else, but I reckon at least some folks agree with me. Erebus sure is a dick.
@@YaGirlGumption they're my top favorite and lorgar is my favorite primarch. He and the word bearers are generally misunderstood because of memes people take as credible lore.
When it gets to successor chapters, and we are talking traitor legions, it tends to get rather messy. Maybe not Lunar Wolves to Sons of Horus to Black Legion kind of messy, but messy still. They tend to either lose their identity and/or be all super same-y.
Erebus is one of the best characters in the setting. People always hate him so much for the right reasons. They don't even realize they love to hate him. It's part of what makes a great villain.
Make them less about “zealotry” and more about the conversion in itself. See them more in their charismatic way of turning imperial zealots to the ruinous powers. That’s how they can be rewritten
Something I’ve noticed in media is very similar to Flanderization, I call it the Caboose Effect. Named after Michael J Caboose from RvB. It’s where over time a character becomes a characterization of themselves. It may seem like splitter my hairs and I’m sure the 2 things will often happen to a character at the same time. Though it’s less about replacing any nuance with 1 dominating trait, but become a one sentence caricature of themselves, where some or all of a characters traits become exaggerated to the point to bloated. I guess Joey from friends could be another example.
The Word Bearers are one of a very small few legions where you understand not only why their Primarch made their choice, but why the legion itself did. Most are just blindly following their leader, the Word Bearers actually got fulfillment from their choice, they pursued it as one. That makes them incredibly unique.
A good current timeline novel with some really good word bearer characters is Apocalypse by Josh Reynolds and shows some interesting internal strife the legion is going through.
I feel like each CSM codex legion should get at least one named character on tabletop, just to help flesh them out. If The fallen and red corsairs can have characters when they aren’t really relevant in lore anymore (moreso for the corsairs) then I feel like Iron warriors, night lords, alpha legion, and words bearers can have one. The only reason imo that people Don’t complain about the lack of models for WB is because stuff like dark apostles and possessed fit their vibe specifically
One way I've always interpreted the Word Bearers is that they're basically paradoxical zealots, both before and after the Heresy. When they were loyal the Word Bearers constantly strove to make the Emperor proud and basically do his bidding no matter what it was due to thinking he was literally a god, however at the same time completely ignoring the fact that the Emperor *repeatedly* told them he was not a god and didn't want worship of any kind in the Imperium. Despite literally worshiping the ground the man walked on they literally outright ignored one of his main tenets and basically said "lol you're wrong you're actually a god, sorry sucks to suck." Then after the Heresy the Word Bearers have constantly strove to further the plans of the Chaos Gods and tear down the Imperium, however in all honesty they do this in probably the most "non-Chaos-y" way possible, if you get what I mean. Chaos as a concept is a very inherently chaotic ideology that is constantly prone to fuckups, in-fighting, and even getting punked by their own gods for fun. You see this very much in pretty much almost every other legion that has heavily devoted itself to Chaos like the 4 devoted legions as well as the Black Legion. However, when it comes to the Word Bearers their worship is entirely different to the other legions in that they more or less just took what they already had, scribbled out the Emperor's name on everything and just slapped "Chaos Undivided" on it. They basically tried to codify a religion who's whole entire premise is being unpredictable, unknowable, and even self-contradictory at times. Despite the Word Bearers acting like the most devout of all the legions they are honestly one of the *least* Chaotic legions in spirit, just like how despite being the most "loyal" legion during the Crusade they were probably one of the more disloyal ones due to actively going against the Emperor's wishes.
A big thing people miss in The First Heretic is the emperor literally never warns Lorgar and the Word Bearers. Emps only secretly asked the other primarchs if he should delete them from existence. Monarchia was the first and only warning, and that's only because Horus, Russ and Magnus vouched for Lorgar.
@@bloodkip9462 That is definitely a fuckup on the Emperor's part (along with constantly saying "I AM NOT A GOD" while using literal divine-level psychic powers to make himself look like a god), but at the same time I refuse to believe that the Word Bearers and Lorgar weren't at least aware of the Imperial Truth. As a legion meant to reunite humanity under his control it would make next to no sense that the Emperor just sent them along to do their thing without at least giving them a handbook on what to do.
@@theodorehodbor5080 The pre Lorgar word bearers by design worshiped the Imperial Truth so i imagine they tried to explain that to him at some point but got roped into worshiping the emperor as a god.
I think the biggest problem with making a warband, at least for GW, is the constant need to have them harken back to their original Legion. I think that it would be easier to make a warbands with radically different beliefs and methods. For example, not all warbands for the World Eaters need to be gargling maniacs with anger issues - maybe a warband that focuses on tempering their rage and using it as an unsheathable weapon could work? Point being, not all warbands need to be [insert Legion] Lite, give them some diversity.
Out of all of them the Emperor’s Children have the most diversity in Warbands I feel. They were known for all things *Perfection* as well as being raging narcissists, so each of their Warbands would wanna go off and do their own thing and focus on their specific niche. From Swordplay to Revelry to Art. Or whatever else they fancy. All perks of following the god of excess.
I am not as up to speed on the Word Bearers as I am with the other Traitor Legions. I haven't read many books with them in them, whenever they do appear the other characters are often very annoyed with the Word Bearers which is always funny.. If you ever in need of some book suggestions let me know I literally have two bookshelves dedicated to just 40K novels and a few of the Fantasy as well. My pile of shame of books I haven't read yet is about as big as most gamers pile of unpainted miniatures LOL. Keep up the great work big man, I would love a longer video at some point, I love your idea for your 40k subs celebration and I cant wait to see that video.
@@KudiGamer The Battle for Calth in the Horus Heresy novels are really great, but other than some of the Horus Heresy novels I rally don't know many good Word Bearers novels. They are a tough Legion to find good books for, so they are one of the few Traitor Legions that don't have much in the way of good reading, at least not that I have found in the current setting. Into the Maelstrom and the Dawn of Fire Book 2 are good reads for the Current setting
Successor chapters implies a need for succession. The Word Bearers won at Calth, they won at Istvaan, then at the siege of Terra, they foresaw Horus faltering, got a headstart on the eye of Terror, and have been doing their thing spreading the word ever since. Lorgar has been studying Chaos in his palace for 10,000 years sure, but he's still kicking, and Erebus/KP are still running things from the top. Unlike pretty much every other legion, they didn't have a battle where their primarch was taken out of action, or most of their legion was destroyed, the rest fleeing with their tail between their legs.
You could have done the "Covenant of Fire" space marine chapter Though officially salamander successors, they have a suspicious love of chaplains and a certain zeal for the spread of the imperium
I currently have a Covenant of Fire Kill Team just because I love the pre-heresy word bearers so much. In my eyes I kind of see them as Word Bearers without the destructive influence of Kor Phaeron and Erebus. I wonder what the Anchorite would think of them?
An idea for a homebrew word bearers is one that splits up among smaller and newer warbands and helps them gain followers and warrior through various means
We think it is fine that you covered it the way you did. So often people are enamnoured by Warhammer lore, that a lot of the basic problems with it, like the Flanderization that you mentioned.
One issue might be about the term "warband" and what it implies. I think what this series is looking into is warbands in the sense of "independent of their old Legion" like successor chapters for Loyalists, when a lot of how the Chaos Legions work is mostly as a set of (more or less loosely) connected warbands. So in a sense all of the Word Bearers is made up of warbands, as are all the other Legions.
My favourite Word Bearer is from the fanfiction Noize by Cheshire Kat24. It's about some noise marines, but there's a Word Bearer name Monody, and he's actually really chill and just wants to help people find god - whatever god that may be, IIRC. A quote from him: "Let us give thanks to Chaos Undivided for this feast. Let us devour our foes as we do these potatoes, let us crack their bones for marrow as we do this mutton before us, may they be rendered as infertile as these eggs upon which we dine, and may their fortunes always be ploin-shaped. Amen."
Ngl, Flanderisation in 40k in many factions is occurring and, imo, a lot is down to meme culture. Where plot points and ideas get told solely through memes those go from parody/jokes to being “the truth about the faction” and that has bled into how GW is presenting the factions a lot these days. Less nuance, more “lowest common denominator” - a seeming unintentional but no less funny irony when they are doing the exact same thing intentionally with their TT game: making it more and more “mobile-game-esque” but on a table
I believe the lack of models comes from the fact they don't look much different than standard CSM. I mean the possessed are just Gal Vorbak (heck just use those models if you run lots of possessed which would add some cool flavor). I would say having something like the eightbound as a mix between standard Chaos marines and possessed would be lore accurate as they are some of the more warp mutated legions. Also maybe getting some chaos Lord heads from AOS with all their horns and corruption would be pretty cool. OR some tentacle arms from nurgle units. I think a little kit bashing would go a long way for a cool WB army. The need for more units, besides insignias (chaos star is just fine), is unnecessary.
I think that if you could not really talk about a splinter faction within the word bearers, talk about the word bearers, but also how they try to screw each other over or some tidbit that isn't mentioned often about them since the heresy. Can't blame you for not having material to work with if GW doesn't remember two thirds of the factions they have.
About the point of night lords and alpha legion models, its that they arent entirely chaos. Not all night lords are chaos and in harrowmaster we see that there are some alpha legion cells that are still loyalist. The reason you hear more people asking for those specific models is that CSM doesn't represent the renegade side all that well
Aren't most the hosts and or warbands just extension of the main legion to expand the reach but in the end are still able to be recalled to create a force similar to the word bears before the Heresy
I like the idea that the word bears are a very united legion that has large numbers of marines and demons in their force that are powerful due to that fact.
What I love most about the Word Bearers is that they are constantly infighting, I love Kor Phaeron and Erebus simply because they are like Vader and Sidious
I play mainly chaos space marines on the tabletop as Word Bearers. What makes the Word Bearers fun is the same thing that makes them one-note. They are mustache twirling villains and religious zealots who try to make war not just through actual war, but through culture as well - making them fantastic narrative drivers for smaller stories, like a gang of Cultists in a Necromunda campaign or for a warband of fallen imperial guards. They don't do well in the spotlight, but they do so well as a narrative driving force. The Emperor to the Darth Vader of a story if you will. My take on the mini range question you ask at the end of the video is that most of the range already represents the faction really well. We care about our cultists and our possessed. We also have Dark Apostles, that are canonically the leaders of the warbands and the legion - and recently we got possessed cultists, a range update for the Possessed Chaos Space Marines.
The Word Bearers aren't 2nd Founding, they're 1st, they don't have any "successor chapters", all their warbands are basically companies/chapters that serve the Legion
This reminds me when you talked about the lords of silence and the other warband that took part against the White Consuls being the Weeping Veil, i was interested to learn more about them but they were just word bearers
@@steveo9284 seeing how emotions and beliefs manipulates the warp and how sextillions of humans believed that emperor gives the faithful sanctuary I think it’s not all bleak after all if it was than there’s no point to care meaning we lose interest. At least fantasy had a good way of portraying it. Honestly I just feel bad for guardsmen but than again I believe lot of them are in sanctuary or dissipated.
The Word Bearers suffer from the fact that contemporary writers tend to be secularists and don’t really know how to write interesting and authentic religious characters. The ability to find meaning and purpose from a set of spiritual beliefs and practices isn’t something they understand, so they can’t write well for a faction predicated on it. As you note, “In 40k everyone is a zealot”, and zealotry itself is a shallow caricature of religion rather than a compelling character trait.
Not even just that the writes are secularists most of them are probably atheists that have a dislike of religion and try to use 40k to “satirize” it and get their jabs in
The Word Bearers never disbanded as a legion, so finding a separate warband will be interesting I've been on record saying if Erebus and Kor Pharon died, well really just Erebus... the heresy wouldn't have happened. Gotta say tho, an Erebus model would be neat. The ultimate chaplain!
I think just by ascetic the word bearers are cool there special possessed contemptor, the Gal'Vor'Bak and Argel Tal was a complex character but he died
I tried to make my Word Bearers warband unique by showing the infighting, since a while ago they had a civil war after one major figure in the warband achieved semi daemonhood via the obliterator virus, which set off some of the more puritan figures in the warband.
Also I think the demand for word bearers unique models being very low, is because they don’t have a very distinct style or look that isnt in the current csm range. Which as a chaos and alpha legion player, Its much easier to kitbash a world bearers army between regular csm models and just about every imperial faction. Alpha legion has that weird scale pattern that I specifically use 3D prints bits to get that look. You otherwise have to buy from the limited amount forge world models, that also includes your pretty distinct looking primarch models.
Word Bearers are so frustrating. On one end, they were right. Their understanding and take on the universe was correct. The Imperial Truth was a lie. But, on the other, they did just about every thing they could do to be terrible. Really just iconic to how HH treats the traitors.
One of the things that makes the Word Bearers stand out among chaos legions is that they are still more or less a single unified legion. Not much has changed for them since approximately 50 years BEFORE the Horus heresy broke out. So, their thing isn't super zealot so much as they are the dark and twisted reflection of the imperium.
One idea I had for a warband of the Word Bearer would be the, "Prophets of the Undivided One". Their goal would be to merge the Chaos Gods into one being.
I think people dont ask for word bearer specific models is because the base CSM range at the time is very optimised for their aesthetic, in other words the base chaos marines are only a pointjob away from being perfect word bearers
So as many put below the Word Bearers don't have much in the form of Warbands is because they are united still, the subgroups going by Hosts. They even have a council to dictate absolute orders while Lorgar is busy. Now there are some separations but it is more like political parties where a host will either agree with Kor Phaeron or Erebus ways. There are some Warbands, but really those are more ones who went the Mono-God direction. At most a Dark Apostle's host might be specialist in a way of combat, as not all just use small numbers, the 34th Host had close to 200 Anointed Terminators, suck it Deathwing, so some still are ready and want direct combat.
It wouldn't make sense for WB warbands to look different from their parent legion. They never fractured. They organized into sects similar to how the Ultramarines broke into chapters.
Logically, the non-specific Power focused legions like the Word Bearers should have the most variations, as they can lean towards to the various powers, or even introduce minor deities. Like a group that worships Hashut from Fantasy, and is all about bulls and daemon engines.
Haven’t seen the video yet, am excited for it. But before I get affected by the video, I’d say it’s that they ‘were’ compelling, and most of that has gone as I continue to read them into the not ‘as’ evil as Erebus faction, who takes 1st place in all of his legion, with Kor as 2nd and Lorgar as 3rd, and resent me all you want but most of the others are dead at this point 😢
I see a lot of potential in the wordbearers to splinter off into not necessarily warbands but sects still worshipping chaos as a whole but with differing emphases and interpretations and so on like irl religious schisms
I have a homebrewed Word Bearers warband called the Immortal Sons and the warband only wants one thing and it's to ascend to daemonhood and only their first captain ever became a daemon prince of Tzeentch. The warband is ultimately hated by all the chaos gods because they are so obsessed with becoming immortal that it gets in the way of victory. They either win with outstanding odds or lose terribly. The elites are painted in gold too
The word bearers should just be the vanilla CSM and make some upgrade kit for them like extra chaos undivided iconography and maybe some individual units with extra chaos mutations like the gal vorbak were in HH and some dark apostole kinda shit.
Yes, I mean they are literally chaos Ultramrines, they were rivals during the heresy because of the whole monarchia thing. The Ultramarines follow the codex. he Word Bearers follow the book of Lorgar. Ultramarines are blue. Word Bearers are red. ITS THE PERFECT MATCH
I've thought about the Word Bearers and I think if I was going to get a CSM army I'd get The Thousand Sons... But if I wasn't such a Sons fan I think that the Bearers would be my pick just for how absolutely fucked they are. They are irredeemable and Diabolists are cool.
I don’t know why but I always find it weird seeing the world eaters logo on post heresy world eaters. I just always imagine the red and gold and not some green and blue ball on there shoulders.
You need to actually read the Word Bearers Omnibus before actually judging them. Most of what you are saying simply isnt the case when you follow up on them.
There could be a warbans of devout atheists who believe the chaos gods are just a metaphor, they wouldn't be very mutated and would be very against the imperial cult. What doyou guys think?
To be fair. Chaos are the villians, without a doubt and having a factions zealots who act like the good guys but with a evil twist can make the difference between the imperium and chaos marines less pronounced but one side clearly more evil then the previous one.
The thing I like most of the Word Bearers, is that they have remained largely united as a singular legion on par with the Black Legion. They are one of the largest remaining legions despite their inner turmoils and politicking.
Not only that but they also retained a lot of their martial discipline and organization. Their zealotry sort of overshadows the fact they are one of the most regimented and purpose driven factions among CSM. They look crazy as shit but most are a lot more calculating and reasonable than they appear, and the conniving and backstabbing seems contained mostly to the higher ranks which actually makes them less fucky than a lot of other warbands
Both very good points
Huh. Like the Ultramarines. Another parallel.
In my opinion the word bearers are a better parallel to the black templars. Ultras and black legion make more sense to me
@@bengonzalez5215 Thats always been my theory as well. The Black Templars are by and in large the only true "loyalist legion", as the blueberries and fists are broken into chapters that upon being called will reunite. This paralells the Black Legion almost perfectly, whilethe afore mentioned Templars and Word Bearers remain largely united at all times. It would be quite the clash to see them go at it..
In the Word Bearer series/omnibus, they emphasize that they are uniquely unified, and didn't fragment nearly as much as the other legions.
There aren't different flavors of chapters/warbands because they are for the most part still a legion.
They had the least to purge when they went chaos and have stayed faithful.
I totally agree, because if you see it logically, why the word bearers follow imperial rules? like the 2nd founding, and so on. They can do whatever they want xd. I know and understand that was a move made from GW to refresh their game. however, the lore sudggest otherwise xd
also the thing about wordbearers isn't being religious, it's summoning demons even into themselfs on purpose
The reason is because the Word Bearers are an almost completely intact legion even in 40K. They’re united by their inherent gene loyalty, faith in Chaos, and total captivation with Daemon Lorgar who they consider a demigod pretty much. They also rarely if ever have deep disagreements or infighting like most legions since they’re all working towards the greater good of Chaos undivided.
Erebus and Kor Phaeron are the two most senior men in the legion and they’re constantly trying to overthrow each other.
@@jonharrison9222 That's true, but the Word Bearers are also one of the largest CSM legions and not all of them follow one of those two. Regardless, the differences between the different WBs is still small compared to other legions and warbands because they all follow The Book of Lorgar. Their faith is vindicated in the setting through their uniting sense of purpose.
@@jonharrison9222They’re basically Necrons. United as one but still political bickering amongst the geriatric leadership.
It is easy for them to be flanderized but I think most warbands resembling the parent legion goes to show how even divided the Word Bearers remain true to who they are. Without Lorgar to bind them and with dickwads like Erebus taking huge swathes of them to go do Erebus things the legion is going to be splintered but they remain arguably the most organized Chaos Legion.
Everyone in 40k is a Zealot, but how many of them actually get those prayers answered? In the Fabius Bile books a single Word Bearer is able to guide and mostly protect a small ship flying unprotected through the Maelstrom. Argel Tal was the first possessed but rather than be consumed by the Daemon he shared control of his body with it becoming something more. I love these crazy Zealots because they do Zealotry better than anyone in 40k imo and they are constantly justified in doing it.
Well said. It's easy to see the hyper religious legion in an negative light with real-world optics, so it's nice to see them being vindicated in stories to keep nuance. The interesting thing about the Word Bearers is that despite their seeming lunacy, there's an argument to be made for them; are the Chaos Gods not real? Does the Warp not work in ways that align with a worshiper's will with rituals? Is it not just pedantic to not call the Emperor of Mankind a god?
@@zonedoyestanderThe Word Bearers were alone the most successful legion post-Heresy. They basically won the entire thing and got their endgoal by turning the Imperium into what it is now. Only issue of course is a PISSSSSED Corvus hunting down their Primarch and the rest of the Galaxy HATING them. But besides that they get everything they want on a spiky silver platter.
There are no problems with the Word Bearers. They are perfect, perfect, everything down to the last minute details.
I think model-wise, the Word Bearers are extremely well represented by the current core CSM range. Sure the box arts displays as Black Legion, but stuff like the Dark Apostle, Possessed marines, or the new cultists are just peak Word Bearer aesthetic. Just add it some chaos runes and you are good to go.
right! The Accursed Cultists even have chaos purity on them. All we need is a named Word Bearer character to lead the legion.
@@elf-lordsfriarofthemeadowl2039 I agree! I hope that someday all non-god aligned traitor legion get at least 1 character or kit, a bit like what the loyalist codex-compliant chapter gets (ex. White Scars, Salamanders, Fists etc. all getting at least 1 primaris character and an upgrade sprue).
Agreed, they are the only "we are legion" army there is in Chaos.
Exactly
As a huge Word Bearers fan i will try to clarify them.
For one: They are the scientist of the legions. They try to understand the truth of their universe.
2: They are unified in purpose but not method. And the love debating others
3: worship and rituals are just their safety measures when dealing with something as dangerous as the warp.
4: i have no idea what you find "creepy" about Lorgar.
5: The fascination with Lorgar and the Word Bearers are they are horrible, but actually understands their universe. It's like everyone else were flat-earthers in comparison.
So to put it simply, the Word Bearers are still largely unified, especially when compared to the other legions. The way i see it is most word bearers warbands are effectively the modern version of chapters within a space marine legion. Where they are effectively a part of the word bearers legion, rather than a true splinter force. With some exceptions like the khorne specific warband that joined up with some world eaters.
Plain and simply, I believe the word bearers need to make a BIG comeback. They were the original traitors and had some of the hardest hitting moments in the Horus heresy
The thing is them all being in lockstep with eachother in terms of beliefs is a feature, not a bug, one of the selling points of the word bearers is that next to the black legion they are the closest to heresy era legion sized, its one of the things that makes them stand out. As to why in lore they are like this, thier zealotry and extreme value of doctrine in beleifs is what allows them to stick together like this.
Erebus. The Problem is always erebus.
Why don't you guys like it when villain are villainous?
@@patman123ist I don't think it's that so much as the fact that people really hate him because he's such a good villain - at least it is for me. I hate him so damned much; for me, that's actually quite refreshing. Quite a lot of media these days portrays villains as having sympathetic sides to them, which can have a chilling effect on their villainy. They run the risk of not being 'evil', and just being 'broken'.
Erebus is just Erebus, purely evil because that's how he wants to be. I hate him so much, but I think that's quite cool - it's a mark of a good villain. He's awful, irredeemable and vile, but - and this is important - he's not inexplicable. We know WHY he's that way: it's because he's a horrible, horrible person. It's not just chaotic-stupid levels of evil; he's motivated by his nihilism. It's pretty good writing, I reckon.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I reckon at least some folks agree with me. Erebus sure is a dick.
@@patman123ist *Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus. Fuck. Erebus.*
Fuck Erebus
As a word bearer representative, put me on and you'll get a compelling argument in favor.
i would love to hear this. word bearers are my favorite chaos legion
@@YaGirlGumption they're my top favorite and lorgar is my favorite primarch. He and the word bearers are generally misunderstood because of memes people take as credible lore.
i feel that on a personal level...
@@SomeChaosMarine
Out of all legions word bearers are the best
When it gets to successor chapters, and we are talking traitor legions, it tends to get rather messy. Maybe not Lunar Wolves to Sons of Horus to Black Legion kind of messy, but messy still. They tend to either lose their identity and/or be all super same-y.
Erebus is one of the best characters in the setting. People always hate him so much for the right reasons. They don't even realize they love to hate him. It's part of what makes a great villain.
Make them less about “zealotry” and more about the conversion in itself. See them more in their charismatic way of turning imperial zealots to the ruinous powers.
That’s how they can be rewritten
The Rogue Trader video game did a fantastic job in representing the Word Bearers
Arthur:Can you imagine giving this guy his doctor? Yeah I didn't f***ing think so!
Black Dragons apothecaries: *BRUH*
Something I’ve noticed in media is very similar to Flanderization, I call it the Caboose Effect. Named after Michael J Caboose from RvB. It’s where over time a character becomes a characterization of themselves. It may seem like splitter my hairs and I’m sure the 2 things will often happen to a character at the same time. Though it’s less about replacing any nuance with 1 dominating trait, but become a one sentence caricature of themselves, where some or all of a characters traits become exaggerated to the point to bloated.
I guess Joey from friends could be another example.
The Word Bearers are one of a very small few legions where you understand not only why their Primarch made their choice, but why the legion itself did. Most are just blindly following their leader, the Word Bearers actually got fulfillment from their choice, they pursued it as one. That makes them incredibly unique.
A good current timeline novel with some really good word bearer characters is Apocalypse by Josh Reynolds and shows some interesting internal strife the legion is going through.
I feel like each CSM codex legion should get at least one named character on tabletop, just to help flesh them out. If The fallen and red corsairs can have characters when they aren’t really relevant in lore anymore (moreso for the corsairs) then I feel like Iron warriors, night lords, alpha legion, and words bearers can have one. The only reason imo that people Don’t complain about the lack of models for WB is because stuff like dark apostles and possessed fit their vibe specifically
So having characters makes a faction less relevant AND you want more characters?
The whole galaxy languishes under the shadow the Word Bearers cast 10k years ago and everyone blames Horus for it.
One way I've always interpreted the Word Bearers is that they're basically paradoxical zealots, both before and after the Heresy. When they were loyal the Word Bearers constantly strove to make the Emperor proud and basically do his bidding no matter what it was due to thinking he was literally a god, however at the same time completely ignoring the fact that the Emperor *repeatedly* told them he was not a god and didn't want worship of any kind in the Imperium. Despite literally worshiping the ground the man walked on they literally outright ignored one of his main tenets and basically said "lol you're wrong you're actually a god, sorry sucks to suck."
Then after the Heresy the Word Bearers have constantly strove to further the plans of the Chaos Gods and tear down the Imperium, however in all honesty they do this in probably the most "non-Chaos-y" way possible, if you get what I mean. Chaos as a concept is a very inherently chaotic ideology that is constantly prone to fuckups, in-fighting, and even getting punked by their own gods for fun. You see this very much in pretty much almost every other legion that has heavily devoted itself to Chaos like the 4 devoted legions as well as the Black Legion. However, when it comes to the Word Bearers their worship is entirely different to the other legions in that they more or less just took what they already had, scribbled out the Emperor's name on everything and just slapped "Chaos Undivided" on it. They basically tried to codify a religion who's whole entire premise is being unpredictable, unknowable, and even self-contradictory at times. Despite the Word Bearers acting like the most devout of all the legions they are honestly one of the *least* Chaotic legions in spirit, just like how despite being the most "loyal" legion during the Crusade they were probably one of the more disloyal ones due to actively going against the Emperor's wishes.
A big thing people miss in The First Heretic is the emperor literally never warns Lorgar and the Word Bearers.
Emps only secretly asked the other primarchs if he should delete them from existence. Monarchia was the first and only warning, and that's only because Horus, Russ and Magnus vouched for Lorgar.
@@bloodkip9462 That is definitely a fuckup on the Emperor's part (along with constantly saying "I AM NOT A GOD" while using literal divine-level psychic powers to make himself look like a god), but at the same time I refuse to believe that the Word Bearers and Lorgar weren't at least aware of the Imperial Truth. As a legion meant to reunite humanity under his control it would make next to no sense that the Emperor just sent them along to do their thing without at least giving them a handbook on what to do.
@@theodorehodbor5080 The pre Lorgar word bearers by design worshiped the Imperial Truth so i imagine they tried to explain that to him at some point but got roped into worshiping the emperor as a god.
Word Bearers are one of my favourite legions in Warahmmer I am making my own warband at the moment. Would love to see a more unique model for them.
I think the biggest problem with making a warband, at least for GW, is the constant need to have them harken back to their original Legion. I think that it would be easier to make a warbands with radically different beliefs and methods. For example, not all warbands for the World Eaters need to be gargling maniacs with anger issues - maybe a warband that focuses on tempering their rage and using it as an unsheathable weapon could work? Point being, not all warbands need to be [insert Legion] Lite, give them some diversity.
Out of all of them the Emperor’s Children have the most diversity in Warbands I feel. They were known for all things *Perfection* as well as being raging narcissists, so each of their Warbands would wanna go off and do their own thing and focus on their specific niche. From Swordplay to Revelry to Art. Or whatever else they fancy. All perks of following the god of excess.
I am not as up to speed on the Word Bearers as I am with the other Traitor Legions. I haven't read many books with them in them, whenever they do appear the other characters are often very annoyed with the Word Bearers which is always funny.. If you ever in need of some book suggestions let me know I literally have two bookshelves dedicated to just 40K novels and a few of the Fantasy as well. My pile of shame of books I haven't read yet is about as big as most gamers pile of unpainted miniatures LOL. Keep up the great work big man, I would love a longer video at some point, I love your idea for your 40k subs celebration and I cant wait to see that video.
which 40k novels would you recommend, which feature the Word Bearers?
@@KudiGamer The Battle for Calth in the Horus Heresy novels are really great, but other than some of the Horus Heresy novels I rally don't know many good Word Bearers novels. They are a tough Legion to find good books for, so they are one of the few Traitor Legions that don't have much in the way of good reading, at least not that I have found in the current setting. Into the Maelstrom and the Dawn of Fire Book 2 are good reads for the Current setting
@@KudiGamerWell definitely read the Word Bearer Omnibus for starters. Real good stuff in there and Amazon has it for $20.
Successor chapters implies a need for succession. The Word Bearers won at Calth, they won at Istvaan, then at the siege of Terra, they foresaw Horus faltering, got a headstart on the eye of Terror, and have been doing their thing spreading the word ever since. Lorgar has been studying Chaos in his palace for 10,000 years sure, but he's still kicking, and Erebus/KP are still running things from the top. Unlike pretty much every other legion, they didn't have a battle where their primarch was taken out of action, or most of their legion was destroyed, the rest fleeing with their tail between their legs.
You could have done the "Covenant of Fire" space marine chapter
Though officially salamander successors, they have a suspicious love of chaplains and a certain zeal for the spread of the imperium
I currently have a Covenant of Fire Kill Team just because I love the pre-heresy word bearers so much. In my eyes I kind of see them as Word Bearers without the destructive influence of Kor Phaeron and Erebus. I wonder what the Anchorite would think of them?
WBs are epic, boneman.
the fact mr bones 40k knows about the purged is actually quite fascinating
Can’t lie I love them for how evil they are but some characters used to be sympathetic during the Horus heresy
An idea for a homebrew word bearers is one that splits up among smaller and newer warbands and helps them gain followers and warrior through various means
We think it is fine that you covered it the way you did. So often people are enamnoured by Warhammer lore, that a lot of the basic problems with it, like the Flanderization that you mentioned.
One issue might be about the term "warband" and what it implies. I think what this series is looking into is warbands in the sense of "independent of their old Legion" like successor chapters for Loyalists, when a lot of how the Chaos Legions work is mostly as a set of (more or less loosely) connected warbands. So in a sense all of the Word Bearers is made up of warbands, as are all the other Legions.
My favourite Word Bearer is from the fanfiction Noize by Cheshire Kat24. It's about some noise marines, but there's a Word Bearer name Monody, and he's actually really chill and just wants to help people find god - whatever god that may be, IIRC.
A quote from him: "Let us give thanks to Chaos Undivided for this feast. Let us devour our foes as we do these potatoes, let us crack their bones for marrow as we do this mutton before us, may they be rendered as infertile as these eggs upon which we dine, and may their fortunes always be ploin-shaped. Amen."
I love how Corax beat up Lorgar and Lorgar decided to nope right out of there.
give less attention to Black Legion and more to Word Bearers, that would help the issue
As far as other chaos faction, I'm a fan of the tragic story of the thousand sons.
My chaos legion is based off of the imperial heralds, and accidentally created necoho
7:55 ALMOST?!
Lorgar did exactly what the Emperor bred him to do, he never had a choice
The Horus Heresy 30k Word bearers models are amazing
Ngl, Flanderisation in 40k in many factions is occurring and, imo, a lot is down to meme culture. Where plot points and ideas get told solely through memes those go from parody/jokes to being “the truth about the faction” and that has bled into how GW is presenting the factions a lot these days. Less nuance, more “lowest common denominator” - a seeming unintentional but no less funny irony when they are doing the exact same thing intentionally with their TT game: making it more and more “mobile-game-esque” but on a table
I believe the lack of models comes from the fact they don't look much different than standard CSM. I mean the possessed are just Gal Vorbak (heck just use those models if you run lots of possessed which would add some cool flavor). I would say having something like the eightbound as a mix between standard Chaos marines and possessed would be lore accurate as they are some of the more warp mutated legions. Also maybe getting some chaos Lord heads from AOS with all their horns and corruption would be pretty cool. OR some tentacle arms from nurgle units. I think a little kit bashing would go a long way for a cool WB army. The need for more units, besides insignias (chaos star is just fine), is unnecessary.
Funny thing seeing that there the ones that made the idea of chapters
I think that if you could not really talk about a splinter faction within the word bearers, talk about the word bearers, but also how they try to screw each other over or some tidbit that isn't mentioned often about them since the heresy.
Can't blame you for not having material to work with if GW doesn't remember two thirds of the factions they have.
About the point of night lords and alpha legion models, its that they arent entirely chaos. Not all night lords are chaos and in harrowmaster we see that there are some alpha legion cells that are still loyalist. The reason you hear more people asking for those specific models is that CSM doesn't represent the renegade side all that well
Aren't most the hosts and or warbands just extension of the main legion to expand the reach but in the end are still able to be recalled to create a force similar to the word bears before the Heresy
I like the idea that the word bears are a very united legion that has large numbers of marines and demons in their force that are powerful due to that fact.
Please, I want off of your wildest of rides, Siñor Bones.
What I love most about the Word Bearers is that they are constantly infighting, I love Kor Phaeron and Erebus simply because they are like Vader and Sidious
I play mainly chaos space marines on the tabletop as Word Bearers.
What makes the Word Bearers fun is the same thing that makes them one-note. They are mustache twirling villains and religious zealots who try to make war not just through actual war, but through culture as well - making them fantastic narrative drivers for smaller stories, like a gang of Cultists in a Necromunda campaign or for a warband of fallen imperial guards. They don't do well in the spotlight, but they do so well as a narrative driving force. The Emperor to the Darth Vader of a story if you will.
My take on the mini range question you ask at the end of the video is that most of the range already represents the faction really well. We care about our cultists and our possessed. We also have Dark Apostles, that are canonically the leaders of the warbands and the legion - and recently we got possessed cultists, a range update for the Possessed Chaos Space Marines.
Flanderization is partially responsible for 40K memes.
The Word Bearers aren't 2nd Founding, they're 1st, they don't have any "successor chapters", all their warbands are basically companies/chapters that serve the Legion
I always feel bad commenting here because I never really have anything to add of substance since I'm still learning a out the universe as a whole.
This reminds me when you talked about the lords of silence and the other warband that took part against the White Consuls being the Weeping Veil, i was interested to learn more about them but they were just word bearers
Could you cover what happens when someone in 40k dies and what is the after life like?
It's bad. Always bad.
Lots of soul-vore.
Big-E 'absorbs' souls in the warp and on the throne.
@@steveo9284 seeing how emotions and beliefs manipulates the warp and how sextillions of humans believed that emperor gives the faithful sanctuary I think it’s not all bleak after all if it was than there’s no point to care meaning we lose interest. At least fantasy had a good way of portraying it.
Honestly I just feel bad for guardsmen but than again I believe lot of them are in sanctuary or dissipated.
The Word Bearers suffer from the fact that contemporary writers tend to be secularists and don’t really know how to write interesting and authentic religious characters. The ability to find meaning and purpose from a set of spiritual beliefs and practices isn’t something they understand, so they can’t write well for a faction predicated on it. As you note, “In 40k everyone is a zealot”, and zealotry itself is a shallow caricature of religion rather than a compelling character trait.
Not even just that the writes are secularists most of them are probably atheists that have a dislike of religion and try to use 40k to “satirize” it and get their jabs in
Yes. I've been looking for this comment for about 10 minutes. Absolutely correct.
Knowing Mr Bones , his biggest issue with the Word Bearers is their existence and Big E's hesitation to nuke Lorgar and Colchis on first sight.
honestly, I'm starting to really wish the Iron Warriors got new models too
Its canon that abaddon drinks adrenochrome. The war master of chaos is constantly tripping ballz on the hardest psych known to humans irl.
Me (seeing red armor): Yaya!
Me after reading the title and seeing the chaos armor: Still yay, but not like I was hoping!
The Word Bearers never disbanded as a legion, so finding a separate warband will be interesting
I've been on record saying if Erebus and Kor Pharon died, well really just Erebus... the heresy wouldn't have happened.
Gotta say tho, an Erebus model would be neat. The ultimate chaplain!
I think just by ascetic the word bearers are cool there special possessed contemptor, the Gal'Vor'Bak and Argel Tal was a complex character but he died
The Word Bearers are the harbingers of "can do" attitude!
I would like to say that after you mentioned the emperor negativity my video crashed 😂
WAIT FVK I MISSED THE 40K SUBS SCREENSHOT SHIT >:[[[ (congrats btw lol
I tried to make my Word Bearers warband unique by showing the infighting, since a while ago they had a civil war after one major figure in the warband achieved semi daemonhood via the obliterator virus, which set off some of the more puritan figures in the warband.
Now I will always refer to the Word Bearers as the "Ned Flanders" of the Space Marine Legions
Also I think the demand for word bearers unique models being very low, is because they don’t have a very distinct style or look that isnt in the current csm range. Which as a chaos and alpha legion player, Its much easier to kitbash a world bearers army between regular csm models and just about every imperial faction. Alpha legion has that weird scale pattern that I specifically use 3D prints bits to get that look. You otherwise have to buy from the limited amount forge world models, that also includes your pretty distinct looking primarch models.
Word Bearers are so frustrating. On one end, they were right. Their understanding and take on the universe was correct. The Imperial Truth was a lie. But, on the other, they did just about every thing they could do to be terrible. Really just iconic to how HH treats the traitors.
Flounderism, this is how i feel about the annoying homosexuals.
One of the things that makes the Word Bearers stand out among chaos legions is that they are still more or less a single unified legion. Not much has changed for them since approximately 50 years BEFORE the Horus heresy broke out. So, their thing isn't super zealot so much as they are the dark and twisted reflection of the imperium.
My biggest problem with The Word Bearers is their existence.
Their biggest issue is the fact they are having to deal with Corax.
so this video about word bearers successors was about not having a video for word bearers successors. got it
One idea I had for a warband of the Word Bearer would be the, "Prophets of the Undivided One". Their goal would be to merge the Chaos Gods into one being.
That is Malal's goal too, via consumption
Word Bearers just use legionaries, characters and terminators just fine, so they don’t need more models in the range other than cultists
I think people dont ask for word bearer specific models is because the base CSM range at the time is very optimised for their aesthetic, in other words the base chaos marines are only a pointjob away from being perfect word bearers
So as many put below the Word Bearers don't have much in the form of Warbands is because they are united still, the subgroups going by Hosts. They even have a council to dictate absolute orders while Lorgar is busy. Now there are some separations but it is more like political parties where a host will either agree with Kor Phaeron or Erebus ways. There are some Warbands, but really those are more ones who went the Mono-God direction. At most a Dark Apostle's host might be specialist in a way of combat, as not all just use small numbers, the 34th Host had close to 200 Anointed Terminators, suck it Deathwing, so some still are ready and want direct combat.
Knights of the beast are a Word Bearers spliter warband and I think they are awesome even though there is only a tiny bit of lore 👌
It wouldn't make sense for WB warbands to look different from their parent legion. They never fractured. They organized into sects similar to how the Ultramarines broke into chapters.
Logically, the non-specific Power focused legions like the Word Bearers should have the most variations, as they can lean towards to the various powers, or even introduce minor deities. Like a group that worships Hashut from Fantasy, and is all about bulls and daemon engines.
Haven’t seen the video yet, am excited for it. But before I get affected by the video, I’d say it’s that they ‘were’ compelling, and most of that has gone as I continue to read them into the not ‘as’ evil as Erebus faction, who takes 1st place in all of his legion, with Kor as 2nd and Lorgar as 3rd, and resent me all you want but most of the others are dead at this point 😢
05:28 Hark! For they ARE exactly this.
Red Scorpions, religious fanatics unknown legion. Possibly loyalist Word Bearers? I think so.
Word Bearers biggest issue: Erebus exists.
I see a lot of potential in the wordbearers to splinter off into not necessarily warbands but sects
still worshipping chaos as a whole but with differing emphases and interpretations and so on
like irl religious schisms
Maybe the Word Bearers should've been what the Black Legion is now.
I have a homebrewed Word Bearers warband called the Immortal Sons and the warband only wants one thing and it's to ascend to daemonhood and only their first captain ever became a daemon prince of Tzeentch. The warband is ultimately hated by all the chaos gods because they are so obsessed with becoming immortal that it gets in the way of victory. They either win with outstanding odds or lose terribly. The elites are painted in gold too
Even Tzeentch doesn't like them too much but will use them to sabotage other chaos gods by tricking the warband
I feel attacked…
The word bearers should just be the vanilla CSM and make some upgrade kit for them like extra chaos undivided iconography and maybe some individual units with extra chaos mutations like the gal vorbak were in HH and some dark apostole kinda shit.
Yes, I mean they are literally chaos Ultramrines, they were rivals during the heresy because of the whole monarchia thing. The Ultramarines follow the codex. he Word Bearers follow the book of Lorgar. Ultramarines are blue. Word Bearers are red. ITS THE PERFECT MATCH
I've thought about the Word Bearers and I think if I was going to get a CSM army I'd get The Thousand Sons... But if I wasn't such a Sons fan I think that the Bearers would be my pick just for how absolutely fucked they are. They are irredeemable and Diabolists are cool.
I don’t know why but I always find it weird seeing the world eaters logo on post heresy world eaters. I just always imagine the red and gold and not some green and blue ball on there shoulders.
I just realized this was a word bearer video but my point still stands.
You need to actually read the Word Bearers Omnibus before actually judging them. Most of what you are saying simply isnt the case when you follow up on them.
Youre not a real 40k unless oyu have an opinion on a faction you barely know about
There could be a warbans of devout atheists who believe the chaos gods are just a metaphor, they wouldn't be very mutated and would be very against the imperial cult. What doyou guys think?
Sooo... basically Creations of Bile? (well, except the thing about mutations)
Crap.
To be fair. Chaos are the villians, without a doubt and having a factions zealots who act like the good guys but with a evil twist can make the difference between the imperium and chaos marines less pronounced but one side clearly more evil then the previous one.
Was hoping to see The Fire Keepers but this is alright too ig
But the disciples of Belakor are word bearers ….. that’s a separate warband
Damn Flanders could make a good Dark Apostle though.