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The Miles M.20; Aircraft Equivalent of the STEN Gun
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- Опубликовано: 30 ноя 2020
- (Reuploaded due to issues with the original)
The Miles M.20 was an incredible aircraft that went from order to prototype in 2 months! Built of wood and emphasised for simplicity, the M.20 had similar performance to the Spitfire and Hurricane but had twice the range and ammunition.
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From drawing board to flying prototype in 9 weeks and 2 days! There are potholes outside my house on the road that haven't been repaired in YEARS!
I think the Miles M.20 looks really good. Apart from the fixed landing gear, it had all the features that made a state-of-the-art fighter plane at the time. Very interesting video, I didn't know this plane before. The development of this aircraft shows how determined the British were to take up the fight with Nazi Germany and to win. It must always be remembered that Britain was the only major power fighting Nazi Germany for about a year. The world owes Great Britain a lot for this determined and valiant resistance. Greetings from Germany!
Looks a lot like the typhoon, which was also developed at a similar time.
Remember reading that when tested against the Spitfire and Hurricane the M20 could outmanoeuvre both with ease. I think Miles adapted the Merlin by using the RR power egg, a readymade installation that included the metal cowling and spinner with a prop matched to whatever the particular aircraft required. The “RR Egg” was used on the Beaufighter Mk 2, Lancaster B.1/3 and the CASA 111, the Spanish built HE 111!
I don't know if Ed has backroom staff to help out - but I unsubscribed from Dark Skies due to their lacklustre scripts and generic footage of aircraft other than those being discussed.
Sure - they come across as more polished, but that just hides the fact that their content is shiny turds rather than Ed's rougher-but-accurate offerings.
When it comes to facts I like mine to be accurate rather than shiny.
Good work Ed.
@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Credit where credit is due - you've got a channel going and the content is good.
A million of Her Maj's finest on some gear would be lovely, but everything works well enough for now (musta watched a shit-tonne of your vids over the past couple of days).
Thanks...and more please.
I'd say Ed comes across as more polished. It seems that half of the Dark Skies/Dark Docs videos contain at least one obvious error and Ed actually checks his sources.
@@budwyzer77 Add in that you have to forcibly slow the video speed down to 80% of normal so you can understand what he's saying, I much prefer the narration here.
@@StaffordMagnus Eh, I generally watch everything at 1.5x speed so that part doesn't really bother me.
"When it comes to facts I like mine to be accurate rather than shiny. " - Your personal aircraft is a MiG-21 of Frontal Aviation
What's amazing was that the performance of the M.20 was surprisingly very good and had it gone into service, would have been just as effective as the Hurricane in taking down _Luftwaffe_ bombers. And the M.20 had an unusually advanced feature: a "bubble" canopy with excellent all-around vision, an idea that Hawker adopted for the Typhoon and Tempest models.
I've got a lot of love for the M.20. But I think there have been a few frontline 'panic fighters' that have had amazingly rapid development. The CAC Boomerang comes to mind (which DID see squadron service, unlike the poor old M.20), where the original concept order was placed on the 18th of February 1942, and the first flight was had on the 29th of May of the same year!
The test pilot Eric 'Winkle' Brown flew the M.20 as a potential naval aircraft in 1942. He said, "It was a surprisingly nippy aircraft, but not as manoeuvrable as the Martlet [a.k.a. Grumman Wildcat], nor had it the excellent deck landing characteristics of the latter. The M.20 had virtually double the firepower and endurance of the Hurricane and Spitfire, so it would have, as intended, made a most capable stopgap if reinforcements had been need in the Battle of Britain."
It still looks lovely, love the air intake, looks a wee bit like a typhoon.
That's because, if I'm correct, the miles m.20 was used as the test bed for the napier sabre, it was also the first plane to use a teardrop canopy. It does look good with the chin though
This merlin variant does appear to have the exact same cowl shape to the Lancaster
It uses the same 'power egg' unitized motor unit as the Lancaster.
@@kieranh2005 - That would indicate that it lacked the high altitude performance of the Mustang and Spitfire. Service ceiling for the Lancaster was only 24,500 feet.
@@scootergeorge9576 BUT, was it Wing limited, or engine limited? Remember that a given design can be either one...
I like the fact you feature fairly unknown machines as your videos are highly educational
Agree, short and juicy videos.
I was born only half a decade or so after WWII. My childhood was permeated with it. I built balsa and tissue models of the Spitfire and Hurricane, but got a bit older and never finished an ME109. Thus, I find this very interesting and much appreciated. I have since learned of the many technological miracles achieved by the British, Germans, and the USA before I was born.
If only the urgency of the Forties applied to the threat to the planet identified by my generation in the Sixties could cause the same kind of ingenuity to be belatedly applied to the environmental problems of today.
Sorry, long sentence, just read slowly.
This is the best plane I’ve never heard of so far…
If I recall they also planned to arm Miles Masters as emergency fighters as well during the battle of Britain.
I think a company should pick this design up and make a homebuilt kit for general aviation. This thing would be lit to fly.
My great uncle was in an RAF training unit. He told me that - at a time when invasion seemed imminent - they were working out ways to fit guns and bomb racks to training aircraft, includingTiger Moths.
Another aspect of the Genius of this proposal , was , like the Mosquito , the available tens of thousands of skilled & semiskilled woodworkers , small biz wood contractors including wood aquisition , treatment & distribution biz
Yeah - they were eventually mobilised for the Mosquito. Early war they weren't organised and by the time they were a fixed undercarriage aircraft would have been too slow.
Another point against the M.20 - we already had fighter aircraft in production and Miles could make something else.
In the early war years the number of trained fighter pilots roughly matched the numbers of Hurricanes and Spitfires coming out of the factories. Having more fighters doesn't help if you can't use them - they're just wasted resources.
If Miles could have made fighter pilots instead........
(there's about an 18 year lead time on those, nudge nudge).
A very obvious reason that restoring Hawker aircraft is so difficult. All those little job shops that made parts were gutted for retooling after the war ended. All the parts specs were trashed as having no value.
@@pd4165 Well, Miles did make fighter pilots, in the sense that they churned out thousands of Magister and Master trainers and Martinet target tugs. In truth, they were better employed doing that than trying to develop fighters in competition with already proven designs.
Ed - you do a fine job and have an amazing ability to find and accurately describe some of the most interesting topics! Well done indeed!
PS - I feel the same way about Dark Skies - useless fluff and utterly inaccurate most of the time.
Having a smooth wood ply skin like a Mosquito probably helped reduce reduce drag.
A fantastic parts-bin aircraft, avoiding strategic materials where possbile, it had a higher top-speed than a Hurricane under some circumstances, and really looks rather good.
Miles M.20: 350 mph at 20,000 ft, 31,000 ft ceiling, 870 mile range.
Hurricane Mk IIB: 342 mph at 22,000 ft, 36,500 ft ceiling, 480 miles (985 with drop-tanks).
The chin radiator may not greatly help performance, but like all other aspects of the aircraft, it's very simple. It would probably have been ideal for the difficult conditions on the Russian front.
The first prototype was too late for the Battle of Britain, as there were still aircraft in reserve. A second prototype was built for naval service, but was not favoured.
9 weeks to design and build - that is just incredible, even by the ridiculous standards of wartime.
I'd never even heard of this one. Thank you for the education as usual.
Agreed, it's good looking aircraft.
Impressive.
Like the Gripen it looks like it will get the job done even when it's parked.
I have a particular interest in odd balls and one off's. I'd never heard of this aircraft before. Which is really odd considering its specs. You'd think more arm chair generals would be debating probable outcomes based on it.
Ive no idea what the outcome would have been, but I have to wonder what if the RAAF, RNZAF and RIAF had had access to this aircraft in 1941 compared to what they did have.
Much like another comment I read, I love the shape of this aircraft. Very reminiscent of the Hawker Typhoon.
With that range, could have been a bomber escort? What might have been.
Again, interesting vid. Thanks for posting.
Thanks for the vid ...My Uncle used to work at the Miles factory in Woodley during the war
Bit of trivia for those who love the Sten. It's successor, the Stirling SMG which I grew up with, may have become obsolete for the UK military but was adopted by the Empire and became standard equipment for the feared Imperial Stormtroopers as the E11 Blaster Rifle (shop.royalarmouries.org/blogs/news/original-star-wars-blasters). I always thought those weapons looked oddly familiar. Can't say that Luke ended up flying a modified Miles M20 though.
One of the worst mistakes of the Empire's Stormtrooper was the adoption of the E11 Blaster Rifle. A Death Star battle station full of trained Imperial Stormtroopers were unable to hit a group of teenagers running around in the prison unit of the station. A full unit of Stormtroopers were unable to stop a large group of over sized teddy bears on the forrest moon of Endor.
@@Easy-Eight The SMG was never the most accurate weapon. Replacing the 30-round magazine with the blaster power-pack completely unbalanced it.
I preferred the Lewis look alike (Sorry...do not know the Imperial designation) LOL
There is an old Twilight episode in which spacemen of the future are armed with Stens.......
Needed to use the Vader und Koch EMP-5 . . . . .
It was a beautiful aircraft! People don't realize that Wood Construction done right has a ton of pluses compared to metal. I think that the mosquito proved this. This would have been excellent for catapult armed merchantman because with twice the range that offered the The Fighter the possibility of finding a landing.
Another possibility for the CAM application would have been to remove the landing gear and get more performance due to better aerodynamics. Possibly even adding a bomb load for anti-submarine use.
Yet another WW2 plane I wasn’t aware of. There arre 3 or 4 complementary YT channels on experimental planes from 1930s to 1960s that I’m now following and thoroughly enjoying ... so big thanks for the enlightenment!
First bubble cockpit. (P-51D type. There're 4 types of bubble/water-drop cockpit)
Beautiful airplane. Another great modeling subject.
Now that is a nice looking aircraft! Armed with 8 or 12 machine guns, or even 4 20mm canons, it could have been VERY effective for home defense or light ground attack like the Typhoon.
Great video!
I noticed the bubble canopy, too. I think Martin-Baker also had a similar "emergency fighter", with fixed gear.
MB-2
Thank you for bringing this seemingly very capable fighter aircraft to us. I found it very interesting and informative. This aircraft would make a nice one to model as a radio control plane. Too bad it wasn't given a chance to help out in the Battle of Britain.
Personally I think they should have built it anyway as a second line fighter for other theatres. I think this craft would have been very useful in Burma and with its range it could have allowed escorted bomber raids much earlier but then once again the Air Ministry were to inflexible and actually hampered the war effort
The wooden construction and the tropical climate of Burma would bad been a bad combination..
@@aftastosk6016 Not necessary it all depends on the quality of the glue Mosquitos were sent to Burma and although they had severe issues at first they were able to solve them relitivly quickly and thier is no reason to think they would not have come up with the same solution earlier if they had had placed planes like this in the region in 1940-41
@@aftastosk6016 Yes, my father was based with the RAF in Aden just after WW2. He said that the wooden Mosquitoes had big problems in that climate.
@@wheater5 it's not a coincidence that British and the Commonwealth forces used elsewhere apart from Europe Bostons, Baltimores, Mitchells, Beaufighters etc but not Mosquitos.
@Hoa Tattis i was aware of it
Everybody seems to slip a bit of "Battle of Britain" footage. Those non Bf 109s look so odd.
There's always a reason for something. When you are down to you last, and fighting for your life, something like this comes along that just might save the day.
Thx for sharing these not-so-known details of the WW2 period. Just got yourself another subscriber!
Don't forget CAC Boomerang was an emergency fighter, actually saw combat if not in fighter role, went from design to prototype in 3months. The threat of invasion produced a lot of emergency equipment, such as Owen Sub-machine gun but not all were viable or prove to be so in combat.
The Boomerang always reminded me of the Brewster Buffalo.
Most interesting. Excellent vid.
Thanks for that Ed, enjoying you thread of "what could have been" planes. As already posted, bomber escort leaps into your mind straight away. Think about it, we could have bought US lumber, built the M.20 then flogged it back to the Yanks BEFORE they developed the Mustang!!
Why? We had all the strategic materials we needed. And a large pool of engineering talent and labor eager to get started.
Very good, thanks Ed!
Had you asked me I'd have said confidently that I was aware of all British fighter aircraft from the period.
Then Mr Nash digs this thing up.
Weird that although the 8th Army was crying out for air cover this wasn't built for deployment in the western desert.
My Dad said that these were made for 7/6 (seven shillings and sixpence) Anyone else heard this? Also, it was basically a miles design, that we GAVE to the Yanks for a plane to breach the sound barrier. God BLESS 'British Politics'!!!
The biggest hinderances to British aviation have been British politicians. An Anglophile in Tennessee.
You are thinking of the Miles M-52
Miles could never give away a supersonic aircraft design to America... the M.20 was the fastest aircraft Miles actually built.
I believe Britain was at the forefront of 'blown Perspex' mouldings, hence the canopy maybe. Great video.
For some reason, this has always been one of my absolute favourite aircraft. :D I really really wish they'd made a batch of a few dozen aircraft at least, and given them to a Polish squadron in Malta or something.
Given that Goering apparently saw the plywood Mosquito as a personal insult to him and his strategic metals-poor Luftwaffe, this thing would probably have driven him completely around the bend
Never heard of this plane before and now I'm tempted to make an RC Model of it!
Heard of this plane. It would've been a formidable opponent.
I gave it the name, the Miles Marauder.
It's too bad they didn't develop it, it looks like a really cool little airplane!
Awww!
Video is too short-- wanted to hear more about that airplane.
I fired a Sten when I was in the army in the early 70s, 3 jammings in one magazine, though really easy to clear
Better than not having a submachine gun at all, I think!
@@veilofpersephone1480 Well, whilst it's jammed, you *don't* have a submachine gun, you have a moderately awkward bludgeon. Which is better than not having any bludgeon...
@@keithklassen5320 I get your point, but most of the time the sten gun DID funktion I think.
Feed lips. On any machinegun the magazine is the most difficult part to get right and the easiest part to damage. Stirling was about in my time.
Nearly saved Heydrich..
Your "what if" videos are a real treat. I had not heard about this plane before.
The development of the Heinkel He 162 was almost as fast: Requirements published by gouvernment 8 september 1944, contract given to the Heinkel project 15 september 1944, first flight 4 december 1944, according to wikipedia. In the few weeks left for the Reich, this tiny jetfighter was produced in surprising numbers, given the circumstances. Some of them saw combat.
Thanks mate.
It is a shame that no specimens of this truly interesting aircraft survived.
Nice video.. It does look like a Tempest that's been drawn by a child..then built! Miles was a very interesting company, good designs but somehow not much luck...
i first heard of this aircraft in the 1970"s and remember reading about it in a Bill Gunston book and apparently it was a very good aircraft as stated could carry twice the ammunition and fuel as the Spitfire and could out fly the hurricane .
I’d have to check out the time line, but I think the CAC Boomerang, Australia’s emergency fighter also derived from a trainer (in this case a Harvard derivative) might have the record...it went from blank sheet to prototype in 5 months, with it being in front line service in under a year :) It two was put on the back burner as Kittyhawks & Spitfires came in quantity by the time it entered squadron service. It had good low level performance but suffered at higher altitudes due to the lack of supercharger (which would have been added if it was developed further) It went to serve as an army cooperation & forward air control aircraft in the New Guinea campaign where is low level manoeuvrability was put to good use.
One of teh best vids I have seen on teh subject of WW2 aircraft. I thought I knew all there was to know. I was wrong
Never heard of it, and I thought I knew them all, new subscriber here mate. Bloody shame none got made, could have used them to defend the North and leave the Hurris and Spits in the South.
I wonder how it would have done as a bomber escort with its increased range over the Hurricane and Spitfire.
Quite good, I suspect. I wonder why the idea didn't occur to British and American officials? Perhaps they hadn't heard enough about it to know about the increased range. Even the absolutely marvelous Mosquito barely squeaked though the anti-wood military procurement process. At the very least, this aircraft could have escorted bombers into Germany, even if not to their target. A lot of air crews were lost before the P-51 became available.
@@Inkling777 It was the importance of the P51 as escort that made me wonder about this role for the M20. Perhaps the M20 could have been fitted with drop tanks too so it could stay with the bombers longer.
I can't see it as a goer.
It would need Spitfire level performance rather than Hurricane-and-a-bit and there wasn't potential in the airframe - throw a bigger engine in and the fixed undercarriage becomes a bigger and bigger issue drag wise.
Make it retractable and you add weight, complexity and cost and lose on wing volume (fuel tanks) - its USP at the time.
If they'd have started six months earlier and the Air Ministry didn't have the anti-wood brigade in charge they could have had these out in droves for the BoB - but wasn't the real problem lack of trained pilots rather than aircraft? No point building stuff you can't man properly.
But as a stop-gap for 1940/41 I think we lost out on this one - it could have done OK in North Africa and then be moved on to the Pacific, where fighter standards weren't up to European spec till much later.
I think it just wouldn't have had the performance to stand up to numerically superior ME109s and FW190s over their own ground
@@pd4165: This author explains how the Miles could have gone faster, further and be much cheaper than a Spitfire. Given the ease of production, pilots would have converted from Magister’s to front line fighter with little difficulty.
going-postal.com/2020/08/the-spitfire-of-course-part-4/
Wow, that looks stunning! It is a shame they didn't re-focus the aircraft, put some hydraulics in to give it retracting undercarriage, and it might have given the Spitfire a run for it's money! After all, the DH Mosquito proved the effectiveness of a wooden aircraft in WW2. This could have been a single engined version of it (in a way).
Miles Aircraft Company never got the recognition they deserved.
Put the retractable undercarriage in and you lose the wing tanks and add weight, complexity and cost (and rob undercarriage parts from another aircraft).
Yes - the Mossie was fast...for a bomber...cutting edge fighters really needed to be metal skinned for the much higher speeds of the later war years.
The M.20 was a great idea for that particular time and then that time passed.
I believe the American wildcat used a manual crank to raise and lower the landing gear so I don't think you even need hydraulics. Any loss of fuel storage could be made up with a drop tank. This looks like a very clever design. My hats off to the engineers that developed it.
@@davidelliott5843 True, Miles never received the recognition it deserved for fraud and war profiteering... the embezzlement charges were quietly hushed up by corrupt politicians.
@@sandervanderkammen9230 It would be interesting to read more about that "war profiteering".
I think that this aircraft would have been ideal for Australia to produce in 1940-41, along with the CAC Boomerang. It would have taken creating a Merlin engine production line, however the rest of it was within Australian manufacturing capabilities at the time. It would have been pretty lethal with hispano 20mm cannon, and the extra range and wider undercarriage would have suited the conditions in New Guinea far better than the narrow undercarriage of the Spitfire, where ground handling accidents killed more pilots than the Japanese did in combat. The range difference would have also been incredibly useful!
I agree. What a shame the air attaché at the Australian embassy didn’t stumble upon this at the time and push for it. It could up and running “in the colonies” by the start of the Pacific war. Sure, it wouldn’t of changed the outcome of the debacle in Malaya/Singapore but at least it wouldn’t have been such a one sided contest in the air, and anything would of been an improvement on those god awful Buffalos the RAF/RAAF/RNZAF were stuck with at that time.
Product of a British Skunkworks, then. Proper job! 🙂
Great content, Ed! Subbed and 🔔’d
The jerries would have been right chuffed.
Miles was a dubious company to say the least... the M.20 was one of many very expensive development programs that produced nothing viable.
Thank you for this video. Very informative.
Sir, your videos short, sweet and imformative. Thank you greatly.
Brilliant video. 📹
I really enjoyed it & thank you for sharing. 😁
RR merlin for hurri. Areodynamics was culprit ??
Love your videos
Interesting. Would like to see a video on the Miles Master trainer. There were a few variants of the trainer and I think it's worthy of a mention:-)
The Miles Master was a development of the Miles Peregrine, a very sweet, high performance single seater powered by a Rolls-Royce Kestrel. The Peregrine was somewhat faster than the Master, and much better looking, too. At first glance, you'd almost think it was a slightly redesigned P-40.
Unfortunately, the Peregrine's performance wasn't quite good enough to qualify as a front line fighter, but the MOD had enough good sense to recognise its potential, which is why they commissioned Miles to develop it into a two-seat trainer version.
Miles built some of the most beautiful aircraft back in the 1930s, which is why I've always loved their products...well, most of them, anyway. (The Miles Libelulle tail-wing and canard prototypes didn't do much for me, or for the poor pilots who had to test them, either.)😉
Imagine this plane as the fighter used on Catapult Armed Merchantmen. You don't need the undercarriage, since you're going to ditch in the ocean anyway, so that version becomes simpler and lighter. With double the endurance of a Sea Hurricane, you can stay in the air and search for U-boats after you shot down the Fw200 twice as long. And when you finally do ditch in the ocean, you just lose (apart from the engine and som minor details) some wood and fabric.
Another plane I had no idea about.
Thank you.
It was the go to gun in my Grandfather’s Regiment if you can call them a Regiment as they still kept there own Regiment cap badge, My Late Grandfather was in 1st Special Service Brigade SOE Commando , latterly Number 1 Commando , they didn’t like the abbreviation of SS Brigade obviously .
love your channel. keep it up!
Amazing .. those folks had talent to spare! Remarkable!
the problem with the miles is this despite being built of none strategic materials it still need 303`s , a merlin engine and fuel which were in short supply.
Yeah, it's always the well-connected who get the priority.
Pilots.
Canons and Bristol Hercules. The latter was three foot shorter than the Merlin and saved weight with air cooling. Fuel for chasing raiders or escorting bombers would have been precious but you’d be either overwhelming Germans airfields along the Channel or forcing them to commit more and more resources to defend, say Berlin.
Wow something new to learn, Never heard of this bird before...
The British have a knack for making cool planes.
A quite brilliant design . And functional too with very decent performance
Great video never new it existed 😊
Good interesting video as your other videos are.
Thank You
Good Karma to You
Robert
This is an interesting commentary about efforts to plan for futures that were even worse than the actual future.
The British equivalent of the Australian CAC Boomerang but with the advantage of the Merlin engine (and the Boomerang went into production)
Amazing content …. Really interesting.. thanks 🙏
How different the war in Asia might have been had the Miles M20 been built 1938/9-1939/40 & shipped there to be ready - or thereabouts - in 1941. . . .
Always great
Always good to have a backup plan. I daresay the M.20 would have done yeoman work, had it been pressed into service.
Pretty good. Nice looking. Fair speed compared to contemporary designs
Great vid ! ! !
Fantastic channel . British is Best .
nice video, have heard of this aircraft before but you gave me more information
Amazingly it looks Hawker-Typhoon-pugnacious !
I did not know about this little beauty.
The Sten gun still held its own at Arnhem against terrible odds.
It was a great weapon. Trouble was, early models had very low tolerances for error due to machining issues so it had a reputation for poor reliability. Later models didnt have that, and it was murder in close quarters.
Innovative, simple, built to help out in desperate times. The Volksjäger of its time
Great video! I had never heard of this aircraft.
It was interesting Ed, thanks. Subbed.
Interesting video. We can only speculate on performance. It looks to me like it would be a lamb to the slaughter in a dog fight with an Me109 but would have made a superlative hit and run ground attack platform, if only because it looks like a Typhoon's unborn twin.
Really cool aeroplane. Thanks.
Even without retracts, it could out-run a hurricane? Judging by that thick wing, I would expect a decent turning circle as well. Although up against the faster 109s, the Germans would probably just avoid getting caught low and slow with them. Still an impressive achievement.
Can see Typhoon chin / Mosquito tail / .. great shape / idea/ typical Brit improvisation that turns out to be brilliant, when the shit hits the fan.
Besides the wonky wings and weird under carriage it’s a good looking plane.
Why does the STEN get dismissed as "The Plumbers Nightmare"for being simplistic yet the Russian PPS43, arguably even more simplistic, gets called "Brilliant!"
Thanks, I'd never even heard of this.
Miles M.20, the aircraft that should have been given to the Royal Navy FAA as their successor to the Blackburn Skua.