How did ancient people travel without maps? | How did they imagine the world?

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  • @buzzz9887
    @buzzz9887 День назад +166

    What’s crazy is to realize no one in the ancient world had never seen a Birds Eye view of our planet like we see it so commonly today. No globe or google maps to really understand the layout.

    • @leroysanchino
      @leroysanchino День назад +5

      Not even until the 1950s

    • @Eshanas
      @Eshanas День назад +17

      @@leroysanchinoglobes from the 1490s gave people a rough enough image, to be fair, and I would be surprised if one of those globe and scepter kings scratched a map onto theirs once or twice before….

    • @johnsmith1474
      @johnsmith1474 День назад +1

      People today don't understand the layout.

    • @notsocrates9529
      @notsocrates9529 День назад +1

      @@Eshanas There is no need to be fair.

    • @TheMrPits
      @TheMrPits День назад +2

      Cartographers don't need a birds eye view to make a map. The best ones make them without one.

  • @michaelf7093
    @michaelf7093 День назад +39

    When the capital of Rome moved to Constintinople, a Zero milestone was put up in that city. It still stands today.

    • @misaelfraga8196
      @misaelfraga8196 8 часов назад +1

      I visited both of them a few weeks ago. Days apart. Meanwhile tourist just walked right by them giving them not a second thought.

  • @johnsmith1474
    @johnsmith1474 День назад +66

    The idea "map" is relative. Even today any person with a map may think they grasp what they are looking at but they most likely do not. The Romans had reports of travel from may sources, which they collated and refined. In many cases the report of someone having been to a place is more valuable than a simple map. This is especially true when you are traveling slowly and must deal the people you will encounter.

    • @DIREWOLFx75
      @DIREWOLFx75 День назад +9

      "In many cases the report of someone having been to a place is more valuable than a simple map."
      Especially if it included a detailed report about traveltimes between various landmarks and how to best navigate between them.

  • @davidhughes8357
    @davidhughes8357 День назад +12

    Detailed subjects covered nowhere else. Invaluable to the study of the Roman world.
    Thank you again!!

  • @michaelfisher7170
    @michaelfisher7170 День назад +94

    "Will you for the sake of the GODS ask for directions Brutus? SILENCE Antonia, I know where I go."

    • @jon9021
      @jon9021 День назад +1

      Hahahaha…brilliant!

    • @chuck9693
      @chuck9693 20 часов назад +2

      (Brutus proceeds to get lost)

  • @ultrasuperkiller
    @ultrasuperkiller День назад +34

    I would love to see a ”how cavalry really fought” video!
    Cavalry charges, laces, cav vs infantry and cav vs cav brawl. How did a cavalry vs cavalry brawl look like when you can’t move back and fourth as much on horseback, was it just static sitting men on horseback whailing their swords at eachother? How did they carry their long lances during march, did they hold them upright, hold it parallel to the ground or did one mule carry the battalions lances together in a wagon

    • @johnsmith1474
      @johnsmith1474 День назад +2

      I suggest you read, "The Face of Battle" by John Keegan, it's exactly about basic combat.

    • @ilejovcevski79
      @ilejovcevski79 День назад +4

      I don't think anybody really knows. We only have partial reconstructions and hypothesis by historians (most of whom never rode horses, let alone fought from horseback), that often fall to pieces when you encounter actual people born in the saddle that still live traditional lives today.

    • @HistoriaMilitum
      @HistoriaMilitum  День назад +15

      That is a video I am really looking forward to, and will surely be posted on the channel! It is probing to be a difficult topic, but we are slowly gathering sources and will consult with reenactors to ensure the most realistic model. Stay tuned!

    • @etherealessence
      @etherealessence День назад

      @@HistoriaMilitum I love the work you and your team put into your videos! Thanks for the great content about one of my favorite time periods :D

    • @kelechirichard54
      @kelechirichard54 День назад

      ​@@HistoriaMilitum Looking forward to it, cavalry are my favourite unit type!

  • @tolik5929
    @tolik5929 День назад +22

    THey did map , accuracy is another matter , as the methods they used were not the best . Agricula mapped all of England , when he was on campaign in Scottland , as he had a naval flotilla under his command . He actually made it a priority for them to sail the entire coast for mapping . Before that , they were not sure if England was an island , or just part of a greater land mass .

    • @veila0924
      @veila0924 4 часа назад

      That expedition is the first time we hear of Orkney, and how its King submitted to Rome. Crazy the reach the Romans had.

    • @paulkennedy8701
      @paulkennedy8701 3 часа назад

      "They did map...." As this video says at 1:38.

    • @1237barca
      @1237barca Час назад

      What evidence do you have of your claims? I’m genuinely curious

  • @robbabcock_
    @robbabcock_ 8 часов назад +1

    Wow! This was way more fascinating that I would have expected! It's interesting how many modern conventions seem more obvious than they really are and just how easily we become used to things being a certain way.

    • @1237barca
      @1237barca Час назад

      Our entire understanding of history is a projection of our time onto tiny shreds of evidence we weave into a detailed mythology.

  • @allisonseamiller
    @allisonseamiller День назад +8

    One of your best videos.

  • @Infbat97
    @Infbat97 8 часов назад +1

    man this video is crazy. what a facinating topic. thanks a lot.

  • @OfficerRhine8511
    @OfficerRhine8511 День назад +9

    Congrats on 300k subs

  • @ericplace367
    @ericplace367 День назад +43

    “No actual scaled map survives” (1.30). Wrong, the Forma Urbis Romae is a very accurate street map of Ancient Rome.

    • @migtig5544
      @migtig5544 День назад +6

      The Forma Urbis Romae survives only in scattered fragments.

    • @davetremaine9688
      @davetremaine9688 19 часов назад +5

      ​@@migtig5544 Come on man, just because it's broken up doesn't mean it isn't real.

    • @atlantic_love
      @atlantic_love 15 часов назад +2

      @@davetremaine9688 He didn't say it wasn't real. Reading comprehension is a thing. He implied that it's not very reliable because it's in fragments.

    • @davetremaine9688
      @davetremaine9688 13 часов назад

      @@atlantic_love Thinking that because something is broken means it's less reliable is a room temp IQ take. Ever heard of the Rosetta stone? It's broken, ding dong. Nearly every ancient manuscript(by sheer numbers) are only fragments of complete works. Are they less reliable? Moron.

    • @1237barca
      @1237barca Час назад

      How was the map dated?

  • @ClearlyPixelated
    @ClearlyPixelated День назад +3

    I’d love to see more videos about Ancient Roman travel!

    • @vitalyalx
      @vitalyalx День назад

      Sorry, there weren't many cameras around.

  • @indisputablefacts8507
    @indisputablefacts8507 8 часов назад +1

    When I was going from Clemson, where I had just finished my undergrad, to Texas where I was starting my Masters. I had truly intended to buy myself a map before setting off... But there was packing to do and parties to go to, and, well, at the party I was at the night before I had to leave, I confided in my friend that I had no map. He said (in a thick suthun accent) "Aw it ain't nuthin. You go to Ehtlanna and you turn rayt. Then you go straight - a long way - til you get to Dallas. Then you turn leff. Awstin will be up ahead on yore rayt." I was figuring to buy a map when I bought gas to back up my friend's "itinerary", but it never proved necessary.

  • @agrippa5643
    @agrippa5643 День назад +7

    Amazing video!

  • @reokobalta8839
    @reokobalta8839 День назад +2

    I love your channel. Please keep up the good work.

  • @miketacos9034
    @miketacos9034 5 часов назад +1

    Can you imagine how mind blown a Roman would be to see a satellite map? We are very lucky today.

  • @danmeehan1390
    @danmeehan1390 День назад +4

    Interesting subject. Great presentation.

  • @atlantic_love
    @atlantic_love 15 часов назад +2

    I think it was also in the Roman's benefit to NOT make maps (if they had the ability to do so), because that would inevitably end up in the wrong hands. It's easier to conquer others when they rely on you for directions.

  • @wbbartlett
    @wbbartlett День назад +3

    That first mosaic was possibly the Roman equivalent of postcards; snapshots of places, something to help remember fun times had on a trip to a foreign land

  • @rdf4315
    @rdf4315 День назад +3

    Now after watching this video it makes me wonder how did the barbarian tribes that were attacking the Roman empire know where they were going, did they have a map when they invaded the Roman empire or did they just go wherever the road took them ?

    • @leroydanny4072
      @leroydanny4072 День назад

      They were neighbors, the border was either large forests or lakes

  • @jeffagain7516
    @jeffagain7516 День назад

    Excellent presentation once again, of very worthwhile info. Thanks much!

  • @azarisLP
    @azarisLP День назад +3

    Roman 1: "Hey, let's travel to Egypt to go see the Pyramids!"
    Roman 2: "Sounds good. How do we get there?"
    Roman 1: "I don't know."

    • @kenmay1572
      @kenmay1572 17 часов назад

      Keep the sun on your left in the mornings ?

    • @1237barca
      @1237barca Час назад

      The Roman Empire is a myth

  • @shortscreator7981
    @shortscreator7981 День назад +2

    Great video!!

  • @VelocityZap
    @VelocityZap День назад +1

    There was a recent video about how google managed to make India much easier to navigate in since India has more chaotic streets and largely no street-naming system. Essentially, they go off on landmarks, well-known areas, and other notable aspects to direct travelers to their destination. I imagine it would be more like that in a more micro-sense for relying upon locals to be guided to their next station in a region/province. Heck works even within a city/town itself, quite the foundational base for navigational skills and of course the usage.

  • @micahistory
    @micahistory День назад

    Nice video, never something I thought about before but so interesting

  • @peddler931
    @peddler931 22 часа назад +1

    The linear itineraries like the custom trip-ticks that the Canadian Automobile Association (CAA) used to publish for members' road trips.

  • @garyl.bowman7705
    @garyl.bowman7705 15 часов назад

    I find it interesting that ship pilots, or sailing masters, used the same itinerary format to navigate oceans. Each pilot kept a log book where they would enter information like prevailing winds, currents, landmarks, and water conditions/color. When two pilots met, they would copy information new to themselves from the others' log books.

  • @MarcusAgrippa390
    @MarcusAgrippa390 День назад

    Another fascinating topic!
    Also, I was wondering if you guys were going to add more to the Roman legion series or is that over with?

  • @MarktheRude
    @MarktheRude День назад +3

    Really enjoyed the topic. Hopping from city to city is all fine and good, until languages change and the names of cities change with them. While certainly latin was supposed to be the official language, how many people say in north africa spoke it? What if a decade old travel itenary did not account for an crossroad?

  • @RamblinRick_
    @RamblinRick_ 23 часа назад +2

    Here's a thought. Have you ever wondered how Hawaiians and other Polynesians came to be? After all, they didn't just suddenly popup on the islands. They had to come from the west. No maps. No compass. No sailing ships like the Europeans, Romans, Greeks, Phoenicians, etc. What brave souls hopped into a canoe (men and women required) and paddled east, not knowing if there was anything out THERE? And, had they been off by half a degree, they would miss the islands and die at sea. Remember, they are the first; nobody has done this already and told them the islands are out there.

    • @doncarlodivargas5497
      @doncarlodivargas5497 23 часа назад

      Why is it nobody missed with half a degree? Probably some did, and what motivated them, it could be of necessity or punishment etc, and not necessarily a wish to explore the world

    • @YataTheFifteenth
      @YataTheFifteenth 17 часов назад

      Catamarans, not canoes. And they did actually have sails.

  • @markmuller7962
    @markmuller7962 16 часов назад +1

    Also we have to take into consideration that the ancients used their memory A LOT, which means that if you were a general you'd likely had memorized most of the important geographical features the were relevant to you and your missions

  • @nagyzoli
    @nagyzoli 11 часов назад

    @Historia Militum You technically do not need a map. You need landmark list. "Go the the 3rd Appia sign, turn right. Ride for 1 day following the road. When you reach Augustus'es villa, turn left on the small road and follow the river"

  • @billmiller4972
    @billmiller4972 День назад +2

    The way they saw the world sounds much more like the nternet is constructed. Distances are irrelevant, info moves from node to another node and will be redirected on each node.

    • @BlackHoleSpain
      @BlackHoleSpain 21 час назад +1

      Mmmm... not entirely true or accurate. Every router has decission protocols based on distance and cost. Summary: Shorter paths are preferred unless the link is too expensive 😅

    • @billmiller4972
      @billmiller4972 19 часов назад

      @@BlackHoleSpain Thanks for providing more info. But still travel is not spatially oriented but through connections. Apologies for not being precise.

  • @ilejovcevski79
    @ilejovcevski79 День назад +5

    But how did these people handle sea faring? There are no milestones at sea. No itineraries.....

    • @Indo-Aryan9644
      @Indo-Aryan9644 День назад

      Prob Winds

    • @MinedMaker
      @MinedMaker День назад +7

      Not an expert, but I think ancient seafaring tended to stick much closer to land than modern seafaring. By following coastlines, you could use land based references for navigation. Would make for an interesting video tho.

    • @ilejovcevski79
      @ilejovcevski79 День назад

      @@MinedMaker i mean sure, but without maps, how do you even know what the contours would look like. And at sea level the horizon is fairly close, single digit miles or kilometers unless your on a mast, and not much more on top of it.

    • @adambrande
      @adambrande День назад

      Romans travelled like other cultures did: Using the stars and wind. Also, it wasn't that too much different from travelling on land, Roman navy also have locals who knows the waters they're sailing on so they can easily tell where they're at by looking at mountains or other geographic features. Eventually, an experienced Roman sailor can instantly tell where he's heading just by wind alone.

    • @DontThinkso-kb9tc
      @DontThinkso-kb9tc День назад

      If you drive the same road every day, you get to know it, just like the seas!

  • @geoffball4431
    @geoffball4431 21 час назад +1

    When the polinians first started island hopping the sea was a lot lower so islands were bigger and closer together , that’s birds can migrate across continents

  • @haha__hihi
    @haha__hihi 23 часа назад

    Good video, thank you. Commenting for algorithm

  • @nickhockings443
    @nickhockings443 2 часа назад

    There have been scaled maps of at least local areas of farm land since the development of geometry in the old kingdom of Egypt. Geo-metry means "land measurement".
    Navigation with a lode stone (magnetic compass), and straight Roman roads between cities/camps, implies knowing the direction between locations.
    Large land empires predate the Romans by thousands of years. The ability of armies to control such territories required some knowledge of topology and distances.
    However travel over land depends heavily on road conditions, so knowing the geometric distance is much less useful than knowing the topology, and road travel times.

  • @ililililili9726
    @ililililili9726 18 часов назад

    9:13 Damn. I'm Portuguese and i'm astonished that nowadays Portugal's main road "A1" follows the exact path of the Roman road.

  • @GarfieldRex
    @GarfieldRex 19 часов назад +1

    An answer to a question I had never formulated. Appreciate it a lot! 👌🏼👌🏼

  • @dimosthenistserikis5901
    @dimosthenistserikis5901 День назад

    Very interesting!

  • @paulkennedy8701
    @paulkennedy8701 3 часа назад

    0:04 "When we think of the Roman Empire most of us fart too often...."
    I don't!

  • @doncarlodivargas5497
    @doncarlodivargas5497 23 часа назад

    I have often been wondering why every place are called "little hill" or "farm close to a water" or "black pond" etc etc, and I think it might because we used those characteristics to oriente ourselves while on the move, people may be told these "way points" and when you reach the "steep cliff" it's just a short time before you have reached the destination, today I use these names without understanding why

  • @His_Name_Was_King
    @His_Name_Was_King День назад +1

    Landmarks,the stars,the sun and travel guides who knew the land.

  • @samym1694
    @samym1694 21 час назад

    So Filaxim, when can you talk about "How Samurais fought in Mass Battles" using "Shogun 2 Total War"?
    The Map part, Oda Nobunaga will be surprised Alexander the Great did the Impossible

  • @CactusGuru
    @CactusGuru День назад

    very interesting

  • @samright4661
    @samright4661 День назад +2

    All roads Leeds to Rome

  • @johnking6252
    @johnking6252 День назад

    Makes Custers dilemma a bit easier to grasp ? perhaps....✌️

  • @mademoiselledusfonctionell1609
    @mademoiselledusfonctionell1609 19 часов назад

    Forna urbis might only have covered Rome, and perhaps not all of it,
    but it was definitely scaled and not in any way questionable.

  • @ThisHandleIsDefinatelyTaken
    @ThisHandleIsDefinatelyTaken 16 часов назад

    Funny how people even in these comments think the ancients must have maps to understand geographic space, even though they lacked the complex geometry required to map a geoid, equipment like compasses and the interest in devoting manpower into the massive undertaking of making maps useful for anything else than getting lost.

  • @pietristephane3537
    @pietristephane3537 16 часов назад

    And today we are back to the itinerarium asking google to tell us where to turn and when to turn :b

  • @huantruonginh2946
    @huantruonginh2946 День назад +1

    So could they fast travel to locations they’ve visited?

  • @RogierYou
    @RogierYou День назад

    I grew up in the street of a Roman bathhouse, and travel over roads build on top of what the Roman’s build.

    • @atlantic_love
      @atlantic_love 15 часов назад +1

      How in the world did you breath with all that material on top of you?

  • @blanbec14
    @blanbec14 День назад +2

    Voie romaine = autoroute à la sécurité garantie par l’empire et l’assurance d’un châtiment par ses représentants en représailles d’une attaque.

  • @davidc5191
    @davidc5191 День назад

    Roman itineraries are like Google Maps plotting out a travel itinerary for you on roads. Physical descriptions are irrelevant - only distances between points on a line and directions when to turn. Simple and effective.

  • @-thanelines
    @-thanelines 2 часа назад

    If anyone sees Brutus and his wife Antonia, please show them the right milestone, as I cannot bear to hear them arguing.

  • @anthonyhargis6855
    @anthonyhargis6855 День назад

    1:30 They also supplied mile markers. Though you finally mentioned it thriteen minutes later. But this is still mistitled. It should be: "How did the Romans travel without maps?"
    Ancient peoples? What about the Babylonians? Assyrians? Egyptians? You know "ancient peoples?"

  • @JOGA_Wills
    @JOGA_Wills День назад

    Tells us for 16 minutes they did not have illustrated maps, then busts out the Tabula Peutingeriana ... ha appreciate the knowledge sharing.

  • @davetremaine9688
    @davetremaine9688 19 часов назад +1

    There had to have been some maps made at least temporarily by scouts so generals could make decisions for battle plans based on small scale geography.

  • @TheSwiftCreek2
    @TheSwiftCreek2 22 часа назад

    They dd have maps. Also, some were nomadic, so home changed. Others didn't travel at all - why do they need a map. But still, while isolated groups may not have been into making maps, ancient peoples could make maps, they did make maps, they used maps, and we don't know the extent of all the making and using.

  • @scooby45247
    @scooby45247 21 час назад

    pretty sure Da Vinci was the first to map to scale when he mapped Florence..
    i could be wrong but i dont think i am..

  • @Nosense2010P
    @Nosense2010P День назад

    Why does the arrow in the Thumbnail pointing at my goddamn house?

  • @Joshuazx
    @Joshuazx 14 часов назад

    Ancient Travel Chads use a list of stops
    Modern Travel Virgins use GPS

  • @Jahwobbly
    @Jahwobbly День назад +1

    Why are you asking this about Rome? The Persian Empire pre-dated Rome, covered wider geographical variety and distance from India to Greece and Egypt.
    The Achaemenid Dynasty had great roads, a postal system, a "pony express" and many other advanced infrastructure for its time, see "Persian qanat" as an example.

  • @ade9597
    @ade9597 16 часов назад

    Like because you used songs from the Praetorians game.

  • @MyYTchannel.thenationalrazor
    @MyYTchannel.thenationalrazor День назад

    How did any of the ancient people do it? It seems unlikely to have been a Roman issue alone, but ancient peoples.

  • @jonbaxter2254
    @jonbaxter2254 День назад

    Oh logistics and trade roads, my beloved...

  • @TylerDurden-hb4vf
    @TylerDurden-hb4vf 16 часов назад

    13:30 Just like mile markers on US highways

  • @SodaPrezsing
    @SodaPrezsing День назад +2

    How did they create maps without satellites? Would be great for another video :) keep up the good work!

  • @josefmaster1188
    @josefmaster1188 День назад +1

    forma urbis romae is a scaled map with roads and many details so its obvious that they had scaled maps for travel around the empire.

  • @magicLakeComo
    @magicLakeComo Минуту назад

    They were told by their aliens allies, that were able to fly across the Land

  • @Rogsie-p6l
    @Rogsie-p6l День назад

    Should be Harry Beck.

  • @BIGJATPSU
    @BIGJATPSU День назад +2

    So they didn't scaled maps, no big deal. They had marvelously accurate scaled directions! When we travel by highway today, we don't need a scaled map, just follow the signs! 😅😅

  • @charlesvanderhoog7056
    @charlesvanderhoog7056 17 часов назад

    In a world where paper does not exist (only expensive vellum and papyrus) and stonemaps would entail lots of work, it makes no sense at all to make scaled maps. So, it is on purpose not to have scaled maps. It is part of labelling ancient people as stupid and primitive, orders of the current government and media. Total nonsense but this is what we are led to believe.
    Romans knew how to scale, though. Emperor Nero had a scaled map and maquette of Rome. I read about the amazing discovery I think 30 years ago. I can't find it on Google, though. You must realize that history is written by people who are dependent on the powers that be and has far less relationship with actual history than with dominant views of financiers and priests. In my life, I, for one, has gone to three totally different histories of my home country, The Netherlands: a religious one (originated in 19th century), a freedom fighting one (after WW II fashionable) and after I finished my studies in the 1970's, a leftist economic-political one emerged of which I had never heard or read a single word of when at school. I am certain that within 20 years, my government will order the enslaved scientists to include islamic influence and 'wisdom' in the foundation history of The Netherlands, even though the Arabs had nothing to do with it.

  • @josecarapinha3818
    @josecarapinha3818 20 часов назад

    ...the King of Portugal give a false "Portulano" map to Colombo?

  • @NathanDudani
    @NathanDudani День назад

    Signs

  • @OmeOmleid
    @OmeOmleid День назад

    Why Roman empire in particular, eurocentric channel

  • @jdmj707
    @jdmj707 День назад +1

    Play Morrowind and learn how to take directions

  • @ShaneMclane-PrivateEye
    @ShaneMclane-PrivateEye 7 часов назад

    The just read the street signs.

  • @SSR2902
    @SSR2902 20 часов назад

    State funded private, Private roads build and funded by the state. what do i not understand here.

  • @GAarcher
    @GAarcher День назад

    *Bruhh....Just walk man...*

  • @RaimoHöft
    @RaimoHöft 21 час назад

    They did do mapping and they did have maps. You're welcome. 😑

  • @DIREWOLFx75
    @DIREWOLFx75 День назад

    You completely fail to realise that scaled maps is NOT automatically always the best way to tell how far something is nor how long each route of travel would take or how much effort they would require.
    Please compare with the more recent knowledge about how Polynesian maps were made.
    The same or at least similar existed in Europe. We know that because the personal charts of navigators well up until 19th century were often made in similar ways, looking at traveltime and identifiable landmarks instead of distance travelled.
    Similar maps have also been found in viking digs.

  • @mbathroom1
    @mbathroom1 День назад

    1st

  • @sharonjuniorchess
    @sharonjuniorchess День назад

    More crappy AI generated scripts narrators & irrelevant & unrelated photographs.,

    • @HistoriaMilitum
      @HistoriaMilitum  День назад +8

      What exactly made you think so? Not a single image, sound, or sentence was AI generated. We exclusively use human effort and talent, always! :)

    • @Orca_mammal
      @Orca_mammal День назад

      Glad to hear it. ​@@HistoriaMilitum

    • @kurosakiichigo7475
      @kurosakiichigo7475 День назад +1

      ​@@HistoriaMilitumi don't know what made him say that, this video was amazing thanks for the obvious hard work. Maybe he's an ai bot lol

    • @sharonjuniorchess
      @sharonjuniorchess 17 часов назад

      @@HistoriaMilitum Maybe it was the advert advertising AI content generation and reading that was all done by the same computer generated voice. I only trust videos where I can see the person talking rather than watch boring unrelated photos that are based on some computer search matching. It does not improve the user experience.