Passenger Rail in the US vs. Spain - Brace Yourself for Utter Chagrin
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- It's no secret that US passenger rail hasn't kept up with the rest of the developed world. We've focused instead on the national highway system, doubling down on car infrastructure and parking everywhere, and also on shorts flights. Nations like Japan and France have long gone a different route, building out high speed rail networks to get climate-unfriendly cars off the road and planes out of the air.
More recently, China has rapidly grown its high speed rail network to become by far the largest in the world. But today we're talking about Spain, which has (quietly?) built the world's second largest HSR network, in a nation of just 47 million people.
This video explores the user experience of Spain's Alta Velocidad Espanola, continuing expansion of the AVE (including new providers Ouigo and Iryo), and what the US can learn (but probably won't) from a high speed rail system that's often criticized as overly politicized and overbuilt.
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Previous CityNerd Videos Referenced:
- Expanding the Acela Corridor: • U.S. High Speed Rail: ...
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Resources:
- www.amtrak.com...
- www.gobrightli...
- www.timeout.co...
- www.thelocal.e...
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Images
- Spain High Speed Rail map By HrAd - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikime...
- Silver Meteor By Seaboarder3023 - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, commons.wikime...
- Amtrak Crescent By railfan 44 - www.flickr.com..., Public Domain, commons.wikime...
- Amtrak Sunset Limited By Extra Zebra - Flickr: Amtrak, CC BY 2.0, commons.wikime...
- Amtrak Capitol Limited By jpmueller99 from Shenandoah Valley of VA, USA - Amtrak #30 on the Magnolia Cutoff, CC BY 2.0, commons.wikime...
- US Population Density Map By JimIrwin, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikime...
- Amtrak Thumb By User:DanielHolth - Own work, CC BY 2.0, commons.wikime...
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Hey a couple notes before you come in here and provide helpful corrections:
1 -- In retrospect it would've been more accurate to say the Northeast Megalopolis is 500 miles long (maybe even shorter depending how you count). But, I tend to be conservative on this stuff so that I'm not making rose-colored claims, plus I wanted to be a bit inclusive of Portland, ME and Richmond.
2 -- Apologies for the Balearics and Canaries erasure when I outlined the fine nation of Spain.
I don't think there are many relevant train routes involving the Balearics or the Canary Islands.
@@bruce8443 Mallorca, no high speed but the services are pretty quick , well other than the Tren de Soller, but then its from 1915 - the network was more extensive, local campaigns to re-instate - take it to Sa Pobla round Easter time, the Fiesta there at that time of year, well worth the visit. Think its directly after Santa Semana
@@bruce8443 Not heavy rail, but there IS light rail public transport. On Tenerife there is a "tram" service with two lines, which is partly streetcar on dedicated grass tracks and partly commuter rail on seperate tracks. There are also two further rail lines in planning stages, as well as one line on Gran Canaria. Also Mallorca, the biggest of the _balearic_ islands has two metro lines in Palma (underground) and the historic railways across the island which are both tourist attractions and actual transport for the locals. (Also, all bus service on the balearic isles is completely free of charge for all inhabitants, but that's just a side fact.)
There are to many homeless people in the USA. Any mass transit in most cities are dangerous and stinky because all it takes is one mentally I’ll homeless person to cause delays or clear out an entire train car at the next station.
Since more than half of Americans live in cities, that is their only experience with mass transit.
@@LeeeroyJenkins that is a problem of enforcement of ticketing requirements and not a problem of infrastructure...
We may not be able to fix homelessness quickly but we can fix the public drug use and defecation quite easily but it takes money and political will...both are in short supply though for different reasons
I feel like Americans and Canadians have this weird “Disneyland” mentality when it comes to good urban planning and trains. They go visit Europe on vacation and treat it like they are in Disneyland. Basically framing it as so quaint and artificial that these cities have functioning transit and high-speed-rail between cities, as if it all exists for the benefit of tourists. Then they go back home and think “Well, that was fun, back to the real world!” And get in their cars. Meanwhile never thinking about how these are real cities that millions of people live and work in every day just like how they live and work in their American cities.
There is maybe some truth to this, though I’d say at least as commonly there is a feeling of “Why can’t I do this at home?”
My parents were in the Disneyland camp when they first traveled, but after a few more European trips (and maybe me needling them about it) they seem to have come around to the idea that it's a more practical way to build a city.
Its not thag much better in many parts of Australia either. Sydney has regions that have rallied hard against rail lines; Government spent billions widening roads and building a BRT while other parts of the city got brand new automated metro rail. And now there is a bus driver shortage and crisis, they cant run enough buses whilst those places who got Metro have a fast train coming every few minutes from early until late.
Most Americans never even get to go to Europe to experience that.
They tell lies about how it could never work back home, too. France and Ohio have about the same population density. In one, you can take the train or bus lots of places, in the other, it’s sucky in cities and non-existent everywhere else.
Edit: I got inspired to look for city pair examples. There is no direct service between Cleveland and Columbus, if you go on Amtrak you have to take the train to Toledo and ride Greyhound down to Columbus. Total trip time 10.5 to 14 hours depending on which train you take. It’s a 2 hour drive. Cleveland to Cincinnati is all train, but it takes 24 hours in total to go what would be a 4 hour drive. Absurd.
Great video, as usual. I've pretty much given up on trying to convince North Americans that high speed rail is the superior form of travel. There are so many things they just don't understand because they've never experienced them, and to say that Americans and Canadians are closed-minded about rail would be a massive understatement.
For example, when you get out of these stations, even at a small town, you're immediately somewhere useful. You're not dropped off at the far end of a parking lot with a highway in the background, you're already at a destination. And even when there is car access, it's usually on the far end of a tram or bus station that takes you somewhere else that's immediately walkable.
Good trains are awesome. You sit in a nice, comfortable chair. You can do some work, read, chat, catch up on social media, whatever. You can also get up, walk around, get something to eat, go to the washroom, or chat with other people. You don't need to constantly be watching the road ahead, with the risk of imminent death if you don't. It's just so civilized.
And Americans and Canadians will always say that their cars let them "leave whenever I want", but the reality is totally different. I've so often seen people change their traffic plans because of traffic, and getting stuck in annoying, frustrating traffic is just a normal ocurrance when driving. These people have never experienced a high-quality transit system where the vehicles leave so frequently that you don't even need to check a schedule. That's true freedom.
I'm really glad you had the opportunity to experience this for yourself, and thanks for sharing!
Your Swiss trains video was also extremely good. Thanks for sharing the gospel and hopefully America sees reason one day.
I'm not American but I'm invested in American politics since their politics are world politics (especially for us 3rd worlders)
Having America embrace public transportation and better urbanism could have a really good effect on global south politics since we look up to it in lots of ways (through no merit on America's part haha, just good propaganda over the years)
@@khumbolawomussa1935 So true, I've noticed so many middle Eastern countries applying a heavy car centric planning
@@markmuller7962 it's pretty hard to unsee once you're orange pilled for the first time haha. My country is even worse because we have all the terrible land use practices and car centric infrastructure of the US and absolutely nowhere near enough money to sustain it.
Practically all the existing asphalt roads are falling apart and many car dependent townships and ghettos have 0 actual roads because there's no money to build them
Hey NJB I feel like you're having a good influence on CN given how savage this video was 😄
@@khumbolawomussa1935 That's pretty sad
As a Portuguese living in Madrid, the only thing that kinda annoys me is that the Portuguese and Spanish trains aren’t connected. They should make a joint venture to connect the entirety of the Iberian peninsula
Portuguese power do not want to connect with Spain.
They know Madrid's Deep State (now just a bunch of neofrancoists, since 2000's) have REAL expectations to recover Portugal, 350 years after its independence. And in fact, they have ideas to recover all Latinamericas to Spain. And that is NOT a joke (It seems, but it isn't)
Yes, Spanish Madrid's Deep State are totally delusional, but had developed serious connections with US Deep State since Aznar's years (1996-2004), during Bush Jr. Administration, and US uses Spain to intercede in South America.
That's the reason so many countries in that region had minor and major clashes with Madrid the last 20 years (Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela, México...). Similar as US used France with African countries.
Couldn't agree more
Yeah they're both in the EU and Schengen zone so there is quite literally no reason
Ayuso (Madrid's president) wants an AVE Madrid-Lisboa. I don't know if that would be enough, but it's better than anything.
@@cactusgamingyt9960 flux incomes of people, specially from Madrid (with very very Ultra right predominance thinking in high young classes, the usual user of AVE), and its probable growing influence over Portugal inner politics, if it is the case, seems a very good reason to evade this.
I'm from Spain and I think that aside all the issues in our country, our public transportation system is one of the big highs about living here. Nice video sir
Al fin algo de lo que estar orgullosos,
@@virdino7947 ya ves jajajajj
De dónde eres? En Cataluña funcionan fatal, llegan tarde prácticamente todas las veces a veces hasta 2 horas tarde, algunos están en muy buenas condiciones y otros en condiciones tan malas que me recuerdan a los de mi país (Argentina) xD
@@laurino.De Extremadura mejor no hablamos
Soy de Cataluña precisamente. Obviamente hay muchos aspectos mejorables en el tema (sobretodo la puntualidad), pero en comparacion con otros paises sigue siendo bastante competente. Por lo menos en mi opinion xdd. Igual entiendo que siendo de Argentina tu perspectiva es probablemente mejor en cuando a comparaciones se trata
American living in Spain. Rail has become one of my favorite way to travel. It is one of the most stress free ways to get from one place to another.
I've travelled most of the southern routes of the Renfe system over the past few years, and the quality of the experience was mind-popping. It's always worth repeating that you're travelling 'city centre to city centre' - as a tourist I always just walked the half hour or so to and from the stations at each end to my hotel. It's like gaining a full day of quality sightseeing in your vacation instead of a stressful, unpleasant, disorienting (and wasted) day of taxis/airport lounges/general confusion. But it's the zen experience of travelling in smooth silence at speeds approaching 300 kmh / 190 mph through beautiful scenery that's hard to explain to those who haven't experienced it. For North Americans it's like a glimpse into a magical future.
Honestly even the medium-speed trains (like Avants) are fine -- they're frequent and reliable, which is half the battle
The problem in America is that the 30 minute walk to the train station is dreadful. I've done it a couple of times in DC, and it's just awful walking through car choked streets, with little in the way of good walking infrastructure, and none of the buildings being all that pleasant to walk through (thanks le Corbusier).
Maybe one day we can go through a reverse urban renewal where we tear down all the glass and steel architecture for 1900s brick and stone buildings, with narrow streets and reduced car dependency. I'm sure that'll never happen, but I can dream, right?
Glad you liked it! We invested a lot in the AVE but we should had investdd in medium distance trains and more metro/train connections to reduce commuting in cars specially in satellite cities around main cities. I live in northern Madrid and traffic is awful and the train project has been frozen since 2000s :(
😊Ju😢x doy c, k
When it comes to the criticisms of the cost of Spain's high speed rail network I usually mention that there are usually no equivalent criticisms of the cost of highways for cars. Those cost money too, they have to be built and maintained. Then there is the cost of the cars too like buying the car, fuel, maintenance, etc.
You could extend that argument even further. When people bring up, say the American Northeast being too developed to have space where you could cost-efficiently build railway tracks. Ah, gee, if only there were some wide publicly owned asphalt tracks connecting these cities and which would see a drastic reduction in need with a functional high speed railway.
@@olenickel6013 The challenge with that there are curves in the Northeast. Interstates are designed for cars going around curves at 65-70 MPH. They are not soft enough to allow a train to traverse it at 125-220 MPH. That said, where the highway is arrow straight...well...the Brightline expansion to Orlando mentioned in the video gets nearly all of its new right of way on a highway right of way.
@@aeotsuka Yeah, obviously the issue is a tad more complex. I am offering a rhetorical retort to an undercomplex argument, often made in bad faith, not an actual proposal. I expect professional planners to do that job.
@@olenickel6013 Well articulated!
Honestly I believe they could do it underground just fine. If Elon can make some shitty roundabout for his car in Vegas of all places with the time and money it could be done in the Northeast
Spain does public spaces and public transit like better than any other country I’ve been to (I’ve been to almost every European country). They have big cities, they have density, yet it rarely ever feels cramped. Transit works well and public spaces are bigger, more well thought out and more beautiful than in most other countries. Obviously varies to some extent between cities/regions. Been several times to Malaga and Barcelona, also been to Alicante, almeria, Zaragoza, Madrid, tarragona. Gotta go back soon 🇪🇸
As a Spaniard I don't feel this way. For some reason, our cities are exceedingly compact and they can often feel cramped and a bit oppressive, especially due to the lack of parks and open, green areas. Not all cities are built the same of course, some are more spacious than others. Neighbourhoods built during the mid-20th century cheap public housing projects are especially bad, with narrow asphalt streets taken by cars, little pavements and no greenery whatsoever.
About the "beautiful" part I don't agree either: with the exception of some historical old towns, the majority of Spanish cities have chaotic and unpleasant architecture. Many of the cities you listed would be considered "ugly" by most standards. In addition, the state of conservation of public spaces tends to be appalling if you compare to any European country.
What I do agree, though, is that urban transit is overall pretty convenient and it helps liberate urban space for other purposes. Being compact also means that cities are walkable, which creates a more lively environment and enables social gathetings in the streets, the true Spanish speciality haha.
@@osasunaitor I forgot to mention cadiz and granada, beautiful imo but I respect your counter perspective. I was a visitor to be fair so I was seeking out the nicer spots which is different than living in a neighborhood and going about normal day to day life.
@@osasunaitor I mean, if you come from the US the comparison is a no brainer. With the exception of a couple of coastal cities, city centers are mostly rivers of asphalt and smog with a bunch of shitty looking buildings.
@@osasunaitor May be you need to travel somewhere outside Spain. This is a nice site to live.
@@rubengarcia5252 I've been living in 4 different countries of Europe and 3 cities in Spain, and this is my perception. Of course many things are nice in Spain, but urbanism is not one in my opinion.
Those Amtrak train travel times are just insane.
Unless you're in the Northeast, that's the norm, sadly.
@@antibishonen it's pretty bad in the Northeast too. Four hours between NYC and Boston. Travesty.
Brightline will technically make it similar or slightly faster than driving between Orlando and Miami in my experience, good luck getting around those cities on transit
They are land cruises, not transit. The northeast corridor is transit, but DC to Pittsburgh? That’s for old folks and foamers. There is a really good reason why every damn trip on the long distance trains is filled with retirees and trainspotters.
@@SNeaker328Blame Connecticut for that.
I’m currently in Madrid and took the AVE to Toledo from Atocha and it was a breeze (got to the station just 15 minutes early and had no issues). Using the metro/buses to move around the city has left me depressed knowing the shitiness that awaits me back in the US.
Old Toledo is an indescribably beautiful place. Completely transports you to the past. If you enjoyed it and you have the time, the Escorial is also pretty amazing and only a short Cercanías trip away from Madrid. Much less to see than Toledo, just the one building, so it's easily done in one day without a hotel stay.
I've been on the same line. Trains to Toledo used to be a serious time commitment. Now it's like 40 mins. Easy day trip.
How do we get it so people coming back to the US from places that have great transit and intercity rail are inspired more than they are depressed? We have to find a way to get positive energy into this issue, but man our politics is just so tough
@@LoveStallion 24 minutes …
@@CityNerd The Interstate Highway System was popular because it was big. A short segment here or there wouldn't have been inspiring, or really even justified its cost in most cases. What needs to be pitched is a trillion dollar a year infrastructure spending for the next twenty five years, fixing decades of deterioration, and ending in walkable cities with good transit and Dutch level standards, consistently. That's enough to motivate. Less is harder. A trillion sounds like a lot, until you notice how small a fraction it is of federal spending, even discretionary spending, and how big the infrastructure deficit has become (transportation, water, etc.). Do a grand bargain so that both sides of the aisle get something.
Fun fact Spain actually has lower density than California. Both places are comparable in size, population, geography and climate. The route between Madrid & Barcelona was one of the busiest flight routes in all of Europe, while the route between LA and SF is one of the busiest in US. The only difference is that Spain in last 30 years has managed to build a a lot of high speed rail, while California talked about building a lot of high speed rail.
Also: Spain's network is hub and spoke which is the second best option for HSR (albeit not for passengers who might not want to travel to this hub) while California's topology is linear and thus needs only one trunk line, the best topology to build HSR.
with LOOOTS and LOOOTS of money from EU, paying Germany.
Strange how so many strange accounts are saying the same dumb thing. Spain is a country with a GIANT debt, and receiving LOOOTS of eu funds since 40 years ago.
@@shostako1284 Fake
@@shostako1284 Literally every country receives money from EU, which comes from every citizen of EU paying taxes to their governments who pay a certain amount of money to EU. That money is used for development in economic and infrastructural sectors, which high speed rail is. Also Spain is extremely efficient at building HSR (apart from the Pajares variant). Their construction costs are comparable to those of China…
Also the US literally has the largest debt in the world. The government budget runs in a huge deficit year in and year out, so 🤷
@@justsamoo3480 Problem is that Spain is using a fiat currency. The only reason Spain got wealthy, its because Germany is financing the EU project. It would be inconceivable for Spain, to use a currency tht is stronger than the dollar, with limited industrial capacity and an economy which mainly is sustained by agriculture and tourism. The Spanish industrial output does not warrant a currency that is as strong as the Euro. Spain's real economic strength is much better mirrored by the ex currency peseta.
Spain may only have 47 million inhabitants but receives around 80 million tourists per year so I think the high speed train network has lots of potential!
Spain receive a LOT of money from Germany, using EU funds. That's the explanation. Of course, germans don't have a fucking idea of the real sum.
That is possibly why Spain and France are regarded as the reference when it comes to "how to do your railwork properly" (apart from those few accidents spain had with those warping beams and wrong sizes of tracks, hope that's been fixed)
90M, no 80...
@@doctorpiojo2586 83M, don't need to lie EVERY TIME
@@shostako1284 porque hablas sin saber, cuando lo extraño es que encuentres actualmente alguna plaza, debido a la introducción de empresas privadas de alta velocidad, los precios se han rebajado increíblemente, que ahora hace muy difícil en épocas determinadas encontrar plaza si no es con reserva muy anticipada.
Spain its probably the best european country to live. Amazing people and history.
there is not. Too much corruption and fascism.
@@shostako1284 fascism? Hm, arent socialists running the country atm?
Spain is the country of excesses, everything is excessive here including the fast trains.
@@metacosmos what else is excessive?
I totally agree with the comfort / hassle perspective on rail vs air. I used to take Amtrak between Boston and NYC on occasion, and while it was about the same cost and time, it was just a lot less stressful.
Philadelphia to Boston on Acela was so much nicer than driving or flying. Driving would take longer since state police disapprove of driving as fast as an Acela and the train doesn't get stuck in traffic, And by not flying I avoided the whole security theater.
I go from STL to Chicago and back and do the same. 4-5 hour drive, same as the train. But on the train im not potentially going to get into a car wreck at any moment (moreso than in the train) and i can do whatever i want for 4-5 hours instead of having to be focused on the road the entire time. Wish there was this option for NYC but its not even remotely viable vs flying lol
I see airplane disaster documentary after airplane disaster documentary in recommended videos any time I watch any video about transit, where everybody dies. FLYING IS JUST INSANELY STUPIDLY DANGEROUS!! The TINIEST LITTLE unpredictable TRIVIAL thing goes wrong: BOOM! PLANE CRASHES! EVERYBODY KILLED!! Airline industry pushes such utter BS GARBAGE about their industry being "safe".
When an airplane breaks apart and people can pull over to the side of the sky and step out and wait for AAA or Geico to fix their problem, THEN I will believe flying is safe.
I went to Florida last week and took the train from Orlando to Tampa. What an experience that was. I needed to be there 30min early. The train station was more than pitiful. We had to wait in line (all five waiting people that is). When the train arrived we were told where to enter and on which side of the train to sit (how odd? it was almost empty? and they had hand written cards on top of the seats that said where the person would get out).
The train stood at the station for another 20min.
This all for a 2h train journey. Of course nobody uses public transport if everything is this ineffective.
Also to get to the train station, I had to use an Uber which cost me more than the train ticket. Because there is no city buses that would go there. And my hotel was quite central too.
Another thing is that in the surrounding of the train station, there was nothing. Not a shop, not a café, not a restaurant. Nothing at all.
So waiting is just annoying. It is not an experience I would want to make again if I had the choice.
The saddest part was that many sightseeing places in Florida are actually old train stations that are no longer in use. The train system didn't just fail to develop, it evolved backwards.
As an spanish citizen, this is underrated in our country.
I can buy a ticket from ouigo from Madrid to Valencia for 9 euros, and I get there in 1 and a half hours
yeah, but you cannot do that from Valencia to Barcelona in price and much less in time (3 or 4 hours) at the same distance.
The "underrated" high train system is based in a heavely subsidiased transport to constantly benefit Madrid high rents, usually also very pro-fascist (francoist) people for obvious historical reasons, who usually, also don't pay many taxes or any at all.
@@shostako1284 how does a 9 euros per ticket train benefit the high wages?
@Shostako What the hell are you saying? I'm Spaniard and everything you said is completely fake
@@ByGuiji I DO believe you are spaniard: you are a liar acusing who says the truth of being a liar. "Typical Spanish".
@@shostako1284 every national network is centralised here because the biggest city is on the fkng center.
Boston native here, I have been hearing about high speed rail coming since I was a kid. I stopped waiting and moved to Poland. They have high speed rail. Glad I stopped waiting and now enjoy taking high speed rail all the time❤️👍
Yep. Hoping to follow suit, to Germany soon.
@@schjlh93 I moved to Germany for my PhD and have since gotten a job and decided to stay. I love how much more walkable, bikeable and transit friendly it is compared to the USA. It could still be much better and it looks like it is getting better. We are getting a transit pass in a few months that will be good for almost all forms of transit in Germany. There is even a discussion to try and do that across the entire EU. About 50 euro/month.
@@Immudzen we spent a month in Berlin last summer and made great use of the 9eu pass. Even at 50eu it would be a steal!
@@Immudzen For the EU? Very very unlikely, especially for that price.
@@holygooff It was in the news for DWa few weeks ago. Some kind of negotiation between Germany and France to recognize each others transit passes and then try and make that EU wide.
What kills me about Amtrak are the wildly inconsistent boarding procedures, I don't think I've ever seen another train system anywhere else like that. Who knew the concept of showing someone a ticket could be so complicated?
Its like they try to make it as complicated-seeming as possible. Kinda neutralizes one of the great advantages of the train
Hi I'm from Spain, could you tell me about these boarding procedures? I thought it was quite simple and easy to board a train in the U.S.
Try out Canadian express-train maybe ? 👹
@@CityNerd Dear God boarding at Seattle King St Amtrak is the worst tbh. WTF do you mean boarding closes 5 minutes before departure for the Cascades run to PORTLAND? I can literally still see the train BOARDING in the shed!
@@GimmeASitrep ... yes but you are not on the platform. Nobody told me I had to be on the platform 5min before the train boards!!! Just let me go down there!!! My bus took 90min to go 8miles.
Even from neighboring France I envy what Spain has managed to do with their systems. Flaws and all it''s still managed to become a growing powerful connector for the country while other European nations have been privatizing and ignoring. Cost especially has been a big issue as trains can get pretty expensive while airlines get low or no tax on aviation fuel and other benefits and subsidies. I hope growing urbanist sentiments can really start pushing governments to bring a new age of rail.
Yes, but France is not allowing Spain to connect the high speed railway to the rest of Europe 🙄
@@correoordinario2010 The country can be petty as hell and it ruins it for everyone.
@@kueller917 what do you mean with that? That tourism is going to go ahead Spain instead of other countries?
To be extremely fair, with Pépy our of the picture, prices have been falling quite nicely. I have a friend doing Nantes-Marseilles by ouigo for around 30 euros, which... well, was previously unheared of. So yup, with the incoming concureence, it's gonna get pretty damn interesting.
Also, the Montpelier-Perpignan HSR seems to be fully com0leted by 2040. That is *waaaayyy* too late. Hope we'll panage to accelerate that because it's kinda insane.
One of the main reasons is that the Spanish infrastructure was very backward 40 years ago, so when it joined the EU it was modernised using EU money, the autovias and rail were all built or upgraded to Northern European standards and it cost Spain very little. There are still a lot of old style railway services in the North and I remember going from Bilbao to a town in Leon on RENFE a few years ago, it was laughably poor, it left half an hour late, stopped for 2 hours in the middle of nowhere and eventually arrived over 4 hours late, I thought that it was a one off bad trip so I did it again in 2018, it was just the same except that I was nearly 6 hours late.
Since I moved to Spain I regularly use Renfe for business trips and I am still shocked at how fast and efficient it is.
Muy interesante su video y gráfica su comparación.
En España el tráfico en las ciudades, sobre todo en el centro, es complicado, la mayoria tienen un trazado de época medieval o de hace 200 o 300 años, cuando no existían los coches. Sin embargo las carreteras suelen ser autopistas gratuitas con velocidad limitada a 120 kmt/h (75 mi/h) donde el tráfico es fluido y seguro.
La red de trenes de alta velocidad, las más extensa del mundo después de China, es una alternativa muy recomendable para viajar, sobre todo cuando no se quiere o no se dispone de coche. Además, el precio de los combustibles (1,45 €/litro diesel, 1,65€/litro gasolina 95; 1 litro = 0,26 galones) hace que sea mucho más económico viajar en trene que en coche. El problema es el elvado coste de construcción de las líneas de alta velocidad. Solo a través de fondos públicos es posible construirlas, ninguna compañía privada invertería en la construcción y posterior explotación, de hecho la red de transporte de Alta Velocidad es deficitaria si se tiene en cuenta el coste de amortización de la construcción. Las compañías que operan pagan una cuota de utilización, pero el mantenimiento y construcción de la línea van a cargo del gobierno, que lo financia con los impuestos.
Creo que en los EEUU los lobbies del automovil jugaron un papel fundamental en la configuración de la red de transporte ferroviario en los años 20 del siglo pasado en favor de las autopistas, eso y las largas distancias supusieron que el transporte areo se convirtiese en el más utilizado, con lo que las inversiones en infraestructuras de trenes son bastante pobres. Solo el transporte de mercancias parece ser el más utilizado en tren. Si añadimos que allí prima la inversión privada sobre la pública para el negocio del transporte, es difícil que alguna compañía invierta en crear líneas de alta velocidad.
Cada país tiene sus peculiaridades y su respuesta específica a las necesidades de desplazamiento. Ahora con los costes energéticos y las emisones de Co2 es posible que muchos se reeplanténn sus sistemas de movilidad y apuesten por la alta velocidad o al menos por el transporte ferroviario.
Un saludo desde España.
Yo como inglés que vivo en España, es muy frustrante cuando vienen mis familiares a visitar y dicen "ojalá tuviéramos algo como el AVE en Inglaterra". España ha gastado alrededor de 60 mil millones de euros a lo largo de tres décadas para instalar más de 3000km de vías de alta velocidad, mientras que en Reino Unido vamos a gastar unos 100 mil millones para instalar una sola vía entre Londres y Birmingham, y que no se terminará hasta bien entrados los 2030... Algo estáis haciendo muy bien.
@@Weirdeiolu Nos sobreestimas. Pero he ahi precisamente lo que Reino Unido también esta haciendo mal. Porque hay realmente solo 3 grandes motivos por el que los españoles han hecho las cosas mucho más baratas de lo normal. Y ninguna tiene que ver con habilidad. Así que dejame explicar estos motivos, y como en realidad, aunque el comienzo sea tan pesado, UK probablemente aprendera, si no lo abandona demasiado pronto.
1-Falta de Ambicion (por parte de españa), he aqui el gran fallo que han cometido los británicos. Han empezado demasiado fuerte. La primera línea de alta velocidad española, del 1966, fué la lína Sevilla-Los Rosales. Si no te suena el segundo nombre, es porque es un municipio sevillano bastante pequeño. El T2000 de Talgo que viajaba en esta línea fué más un experimento que otra cosa. Y otras líneas pequeñas aparecieron aqui y allí pero no fue hasta mediados de los 70 que se construyeron algunas grandes y hasta los 90 no empezo la inversion de verdad! Mientras tanto UK inmediatamente ha saltado a hacer una línea tan grande y costosa como lo seria para nosotros la linea madrid-sevilla, la cual fue un peso tan grande para el estado que tubimos que fundar AVE para poder hacerlo. Y la segunda línea que estan haciendo ahora es aun más grande!
Y porqué es esto importante? simple. La inmemsa mayoria de los costos adicionales que UK esta incurriendo son por falta de estandarización. Ellos mismos lo admiten. Hay mil y un pequeños contratistas trabajando en esto pero cada maestrillo tiene su librillo y mas aun cuando la tecnologia no esta consolidada en esa nacion asi que con la mala comunicacion entre estas empresas muchisimos errores pequeños se acumulan y corregirlos cuesta una pasta.
En españa para cuando los grandes contratos comenzaron ya teniamos bastantes empresas consolidadas, y para cuando intentamos madrid-sevilla creamos AVE para asegurarse de que estas se comunicasen entre ellas y no hiciesen estas cosas. Pero Reino Unido se ha saltado tanto el comienzo humilde que les habria permitido consoldiar empresas, como la creacion del conglomerado que las comunique. Han sido demasiado ambiciosos demasiado rapido. Bajo la aparente creencia de que si otros como españa pueden ellos tambien, sin darse cuenta de que españa solo puede porque nos metimos las ostias una a una en vez de todas de golpe.
Y los comienzos de alta velocidad aqui fueron terribles tambien! Incluso cuando Ave ocurrio, yo recuerdo de cuando era niño la cantidad de casos de corruption, las quejas, los retrasos, la alta velocidad parecia un circo! Pero lo que a nosotros nos gasto algo de dinero en una estacion corrupta o erronea, a UK le esta suponiendo un sobrecoste enorme, porque la ambicion supone que estos errores afecten a una escala mucho mas grande. Pero igual que españa, UK aprendera de los golpes y por eso digo que si no lo abandonan, en unos años veras que mejora la velocidad y precio de construccion de las lineas. Son solo "growing pains", salvo que la escala del proyecto los hace parecer mucho peores.
2-El segundo problema que los ingleses no parecen haber aprendido, es que la mayoria de lineas de alta velocidad españolas al principio no se construyeron separadas de las lineas ya existentes, sino reemplazandolas. Esto corta el coste en mucho menos de la mitad, puesto que esa transormacion es relativamente facil y barata, mientras que hacer una linea nueva añade todos los costes de infraestructura añadida que los casos mas notorios de sobrecoste como California y Reino Unido estan pagando. Por supuesto esto causa otras molestias ya que la linea original tiene que parar, o como ahora que Cadiz esta reconstruyendo el ferrocarril han tenido que crear un extraño vehiculo capaz de alta y baja velocidad para pasar por el trayecto que se derribo para el AVE. En resumen, no es ideal, pero es menos problematico que lo que estan liando en gran bretaña.
3-y finalmente... El otro gran coste de las lineas de alta velocidad, aparte de infraestructura, es la tierra sobre la que se construye. Y ahi los españoles tenemos una gran ventaja causada por el terrible error que fue mover la capital a Madrid.
En serio mira un mapa de luces de noche en españa. Es como si hubiese un enorme donut. Porque? Pues porque el interior peninsular historicamente es muy dificil de conectar asi que nadie queria vivir ahi. Si hubiesemos seguido la misma trayectoria que el resto de europa nuestra capital se habria quedado en Sevilla. O al menos movido a Asturias como querian los norteños. Pero como a los españoles no hay nada que nos guste más que quejarnos tras varios siglos de bronca el rey decidio emular a salomon y declarar que si nadie va a estar contento pues nos daría una solución que joda a todos. Agarró escuadra y cartabón, un mapa de la peninsula ibérica y calculó que el punto más central de esta estaba al lado de lo que en aquella epoca era una ciudad extremadamente pequeña y pobre, llamada Madrid.
Y si hubiese sido cualquier otro pais probablemente esto seria recordado como una anecdota pequeña porque alguien habria cedido, dejando nuestra capital en algun lugar periferico como es normal. Pero no! Somos españoles asi que por supuesto que nadie cedio y acabamos creando uno de los mayores idolos a la tozudez del planeta. Y de ahi bienen los numerosos problemas que tiene madrid, como la falta de corrientes de aire que hace que la maldita boina cueste una eternidad dispersarla.
A lo que voy es que aunque esta haya sido probablemente una de las peores decisiones de nuestra historia, ha tenido 2 buenos efectos con respecto al AVE. El primero es que españa nunca abandono el tren como el resto de occidente, porque aunque nuestros lideres estaban tan obsesionados con el coche como simbolo de progreso como los vuestros, y sobre todo franco construyo un monton de autopistas, cada vez que intentaban abandonar el tren se daban cuenta a la fuerza del tremendo dolor que causa a la poblacion tener que depender logisticamente de los camiones, asi que reculaban. Por eso españa empezo tan pronto con mejoras de trenes como alta velocidad, simplemente no teniamos otra que aguantarnos porque no hay huebos de tener transito barato a madrid sin trenes, y por eso teniamos tantas lineas antiguas que podiamos cambiar a alta velocidad de forma barata. El segundo beneficio por supuesto es el propio precio del suelo. Tanto España como UK estan aparentemente obsesionados conque los grandes proyectos de infraestructuras sean "radiales" (centrados en la capital), pero mientras que el terreno alrededor de Londres es extremadamente caro y construir ahi es caro y molesto, Madrid esta rodeado de descampados, pobreza y enormes granjas sin mucho valor. Así que el precio del terreno necesario para construir o ampliar las vias ahí es infinitamente más barato.
Y he ahi los motivos por los cuales el aparente despilfarro de USA y UK. Y porque al menos yo estoy seguro de que, mientras que no desistais, es una cuestion de tiempo que tengais los resultados deseables.
@@Weirdeiolu También pasan cosas así, el sistema de trenes es muy bueno pero sólo entre Madrid y otras grandes ciudades, en el norte llevamos mucho tiempo esperando al AVE y no llegará hasta 2028 mínimo porque construyeron los trenes demasiado altos para los túneles, mismamente por dónde paso yo todos días, la Autopista que conecta Oviedo, lleva en obra desde más de 10 años, y no parece que vayan a terminarlo nunca.
@@fueyo2229 lo que pasa es que UK ni siquiera consigue construirlo entre Londres y las grandes ciudades 😅
I strongly encourage all of my younger friends and acquaintances to try actually living in Europe for a year or two if they can. No place is perfect, but there are so many more ways to live well there than here in the US, and this video is one of many examples.
I'm planning to move to Europe sometime in the next year or so, I've lived in the States my whole life so far and I'm kinda sick and tired of the pervasive, constant individualism. I have nothing against the actual people here, but the collective culture seems to be quite anti-community.
@@cineblazer I agree to a point, but the 21st century has clearly shown us that, without exaggeration, there are literally millions of truly evil people living here too.
Not all European countries are paradises. In France there is currently a lot of strikes and civil unrests going on right now because lots of employees are underpaid for the jobs they do and their retirements are insanely low to be able to live and pay rent. Even the SNCF transportation employees are underpaid so lots of trains gets cancelled because of strikes. Even when things are normal, train strikes in france happens quite frequently. Move to Europe if you want to (I personally don't care about Europe at all) but make sure you choose a good country.
@@vintagetriplex3728 As I stated, no place is perfect.
@@vintagetriplex3728 strikes demanding better living conditions? against raising the retirement age? demanding better paying jobs? Sounds ok to me. Masses in America are just to silent in every aspect, we had to watch a cop killing a black guy on video to finally protest in force (and nobody working because COVID was a big part) its been at least 50 years since the actual "PEOPLE" of America had spoken on the streets
You did ride the "crown jewel" of rail service in Europe. Admittedly the TGV in France is also wonderful, but I found it considerably more expensive than Spain and Italy is, well.. so Italian (those who travel know what I mean- don't get me wrong, I love their attitude towards service- it's always "quindici minuti"- akin to "mañana" in Central America). The Spanish are not like that, they expect punctuality and good service- and the trains deliver.
Now, about Amtrak...
I guess you haven't travelled much on Spanish cercanías/suburban or regional trains, those are usually the opposite of punctuality and good service hahaha.
@@osasunaitor The regional train to Valencia is always 5minutes late. ive missed the train once... because it came on time!
@@osasunaitor You are correct-- maybe not as good as the AVEs (I have only been on cercanías to & from Madrid and down the coast from Málaga), but still a damn site better than Amtrak. Gracias por tus comentarios.
@@osasunaitor High-speed trains, which is what they talk about, are commuter trains.
In Italy there is a huge gap between North, Center, South and the two islands (as usual). The high speed rail is pretty good, but it stops at Salerno (close to Naples), if you need to go further than that, good luck, you will need it.
Public transit in Rome is a joke. In Milan, it's better, but the city is still mostly car-centric, with huge roads that get flooded at every rain
Nice video. Greetings from Valencia, Spain
I wish more people would see how much more luxurious having access to HSR connected through a proper network spanning your country truly is compared to air travel.
I say that mostly because air travel is considered a luxury for the rich only in my 3rd world country (Malawi). Anyways, pls keep the Spain vs the US comparisons coming! Great video!
I wonder when we will see Blyantre - Lilongwe HSR
It would be truly a sight to behold
@@alezar2035 literally the most obvious corridor to put a train in and for some reason it still hasn't happened yet 😭
I think about this alot
@@khumbolawomussa1935 some African countries are building new railway infrastructure with Chinese loans (Kenya and Ethiopia come to my mind). Not the best option from a political point of view, but could be a way to get started
@@osasunaitor yeah funding has always been an issue but diverting money that was gonna add to the car dependency fire and building rail instead will always be a win in my book
Ignoring all the implications of borrowing from the Chinese of course
Yup, one of the best parts about riding trains is having the ability to chillax, not have to worry about your bags, stretch and walk through the train and even having a drink without having to worry about driving. Can't quite stretch in an ordinary car when you're cramped! And when an airport has a regional, long-distance, or metro train station right at the airport like Frankfurt, Paris-CDG, or Madrid...boy do I get jealous. The fact that AirTrain JFK costs over EIGHT DOLLARS to ride to either Jamaica or Howard Beach to connect to legitimate trains is ridiculous. It doesn't ENCOURAGE people to take transit instead of Uber or Lyft, it DIScourages! Having a direct connection makes things easy for travelers big time.
Don't like that "too big for HSR" argument with a burning passion whenever it's brought up, because I just point at China every time. Like the US, China is a huge country of different environments and mountains. And yet, China was able to connect EVERY province in the country with HSR. Same for the "HSR to nowhere" argument. Towns have turned into cities because of trains. Because of David Moffat's efforts connecting Denver by train to Salt Lake City, he helped put Denver on the map! Trains ARE America's heritage! And by making excuses, we don't solve anything
The swiss are the ones who expect be in time, here in spain what we like is to go fast.
@@metacosmos No wonder you have two great Formula 1 drivers.
@@JohnFromAccounting in the 60 and 70 we had none.
I live in Barcelona and have done the trip to Madrid and back and can say that it was quite nice. I also love the fact that I can go around the country and visit small towns and cities without even owning a car. I dont even have a driver´s license anymore (expired during Covid). Between train, metro, Trams and walking, you can move very easy in pretty much every city and go wherever you need.
Atocha and Valencia are splendid good-looking stations, thx for the footage!
Spain is the second country in the construction of Aves or high-speed trains, after Japan. The high-speed train in Saudi Arabia was built by a Spanish company. Likewise, many trains and transvias in different American countries and European countries are trains of Spanish railway companies. Spain has a great transit and travel system in its territory. In addition to being the 4th most important economy in the European Union, I don't know why so many comments insulting Spain, as if they knew its railway and transit history tren🚄📈🚦🚘🛣️
I did this trip about eight years ago, and it might be my favourite rail journey ever. First class, delicious lunch with wine included, quiet, convenient, relaxing, fast... and only 40 euros. That level of service and value simply does not exist anywhere else.
Wich trip?? 40 euros first class?? More like 140...
In 1998 I rode the Ave from Sevilla to Madrid; at the time that was the only segment in operation. The promise on the ticket was that if the train were more than 4 minutes late to Madrid I would receive a full refund. I knew then that the US was hopelessly behind the eight ball in having any prospects for this mode of transport.
This is still the case, though it has changed a bit. If any AVE is 15 minutes or more late, you get 50% of your ticket, if it's over 30 minutes, you get 100%. I have used the service around 100 times, only got a refund once, 35 minutes late, crazy snowstorm in Madrid.
I rode the train from Madrid to Valencia just before Covid hit. I was amazed. I'm glad that you plan to explain on a future video how they did this.
EU funds, Germany paying. Germans? no idea at all. Spain is a bloodsucker of European money. The reality is just incredible to believe, because that EU funds to development had to be stopped 20 years ago.
Spanish politicians and spaniard deep state have a top US level in corrupting things.
Next time do Madrid- Placencia and see the Sierra on your right covered in snow. And tumbleweed blowing along the meseta. Unbelievable scenery in Spain.
@@McFraneth Thanks, I will.
I've taken the exact train from Madrid to Valencia. So easy. Threw a large backpack over my shoulder, flashed the QR code from my phone and hopped on the train.
As someone once said, Bulgaria would be deeply embarrassed if it had the US passenger rail system. They have 10 trains between Sofia to beautiful Plovdiv but we can't get anything between two major cities on the east coast of the US.
Bulgaria is the oldest country (with a continuous legal history) in Europe. They should expect nothing less than an effective transport system.
Nice video! An illuminating factor you did not mention is the construction cost, which Spain has managed to keep exceptionally low. This makes the cost/benefit calculation a bit less crazy
My only experience with Spanish high speed rail was a trip from Barcelona to Madrid. And it was glorious. Man, I miss living in Europe.
I did the Paris to Megève overnight, a cabin with sheets and blankets and a teeny bathroom, in the early 1970s... I was a child. My dad said train travel was the most civilised. He was right. We had breakfast brought to us on a tray with a tea cloth by a liveried porter.
You filled in by ticking what you wanted for breakfast, and left it in a holder outside your cabin door. Totally Agatha Christie. I also did Paris - Prague overnight with a stop in Frankfurt am Main to eat in a tavern there and drink hot wine.
I think that difficult to quantify cost-benefit analysis is a hugely important part of why rail should be seen as hugely important by people who think by economics, regardless of whether companies can support it or if the companies need to. It's not just a straight value generation, but it enables business to happen, much as inversely the UK's Beeching Cuts essentially severed many people's ability to do business between smaller destination and pretty much gutted companies ability to move large amounts of goods efficiently.
This said, I think even trying to look at this stuff through cost-benefit in terms of real money and economic impact is a carryover from the mindset that 50-70 years of a neoliberalist world has trained our minds to, where we think money is the metric for all things, instead of focusing on improved qualities of life for people, which is the day to day lived experience that I think we all should be caring about.
Shout out to Cuenca! I took the Ave to and from Madrid to Cuenca one time and it was so cool. Like you said, the ride was too short at about 45 min if I remember.
While I never got to travel AVE, Cercanías Málaga helped me so much during my earliest Spain visits. I wonder how much it changed in the last 15 years.
They just added more stations and renovated the trains. Not much tbh.
It would be great if they could extend the line to Marbella in the west, and create a new one to Nerja in the east.
When I lived in Austria, in the city of Wiener Neustadt (about 40 miles south of Vienna), I ended up with a job just northeast of Vienna, so three days a week, I took the train. There were three trains going from WN to Vienna every hour between 6 AM and 6 PM: the RailJet, the regional express, and the local train. The RailJet was the sleeper from Rome, with its final destination in Vienna, and it took half an hour to go from WN to its first stop in Vienna city limits. The regional express took 40-45 minutes to make the same trip, with three additional stops, and the regional train took 75 minutes, stopping something like 12 times.
Neustadt's population was and still is between 50 and 60 thousand. The two primary reasons the Italian trains went through WN was because the tracks follow the road that connected central Austria to Italy (with few other easier routes through the foothills of the Alps), and Neustadt was the local big town to the extensive iron mines in the area, and remained the center of iron refining, steel making, and other related industrial activities, including the Austrian locomotive industry. That made Neustadt a reasonable place for long distance trains to stop, at least in daylight hours.
When I first moved to Austria, I lived in Vienna, and sent weekly emails to friends back in the US on what I was doing. (Wasn't hip enough to make them blog posts at the start.) You can bet that I raved about the quality of public transit there compared to the SF Bay Area, and my home town of Houston. (Not Just Bikes is not wrong.)
i had to laugh when you were speaking about atocha in madrid and being able to make it through so quickly because that saved me when i was traveling and got to the train station with about less than 10 mins to spare. it was my first day having arrived in spain where i was moving to be an english teacher. i stayed over a friend's apt and had to take a train to cádiz at 6:20 something am and was so in awe of the streets walking to the station it slowed me down. i was able to get through security and the station within 5 minutes or so with two suitcases and a backpack.
I have family that live in a small town in the Valencia province that I visit often. The connection by train small cities is very beneficial in my opinion. For me, my family could safely take the 30 minute train to Valencia to enjoy big cultural events like Fallas. Also, a lot of these small towns are hidden gems with amazing historical sites but not too many tourists. I’ve been going to the same region of Spain my whole life ever since I was a child. And, still on my most recent trip, we discovered hidden gems in these small towns. I definitely recommend Anna with their well preserved mosque, Guadalest with their almost fairytale-like structure, and Xàtiva with their castle. We’ve revisited these small towns a few times because their beautiful and not too tourist trappy.
I rode this exact line last summer from Valencia to Madrid and back for a day trip. Great experience, incredibly fast and comfortable. Slightly more expensive than I was expecting from what I had heard about affordability, but still less than a comparable journey here in the UK. Our trains are frequently and chaotically delayed and cancelled. On the journery back from Madrid, we got to our boarding area after navigating Atocha station (which was quite stressful) only to find the room rammed with passengers. Turned out the train was delayed and it was incredibly chaotic and stressful boarding the train. It would be at this point in the UK that the train would probably be cancelled, but despite the chaos we only left 4 minutes late, and made back that time in the journey arriving on time.
I think the best comparison between Spain and UK train reliability is not my experience, but the experience my aunt's husband had on the same trip. His permanent home is in Spain, but he works on oil rigs mostly in the North sea and lives on them mostly. He was at home when we arrived but a few days into our trip he had to return to the rigs, so he was to take the train from Valencia to Alicante, plane from Alicante to somewhere in the UK, and train from the UK airport to wherever he was being flown out to the oil rig from. Little did he know when he departed that this trip was CURSED from the beginning!
You see, he is usually a very organised and well-prepared man, but when we arrived Valencia Nord, we could not see his train on the indicator anywhere. He double checked his ticket and realised it was actually leaving from Sorolla instead! With minutes to spare, he absolutely bolted down the street to Sorolla station, and just barely made it to his train on time. What a stressful travel day, right? At least it's all plain sailing from here though... right?
He made it to the UK and got on his train fine. But then in some random field in the English countryside, in the middle of the night, the train stopped and didn't start again. Apparently the overhead wires had been damaged and so the train was left without power. This was a packed service busy with families with crying children and all sorts. They were stuck there for hours on end, with no indication of when they would get going again. He went to the train crew and asked them what the problem was, and the told him something about having to derail the train, which doesn't make any sense (I reckon they were just as confused as he was). Eventually, after being stuck in the dark in the middle of nowhere for I believe it was over 4 hours on a train journey that was meant to be less than that overall, a diesel eventually showed up and hauled them to their destinations.
The most telling part about this is that the problem he experienced on the British train was not his fault in any way, and yet delays such as it (although maybe not quite that extreme) are fairly common and show no sign of ending. However, the problem he experienced on ReNFE was his own fault for not checking the tickets, and yet even that problem is being adressed by unifying all trains into a revamped Nord and closing Sorolla. ReNFE is working to eliminate problems that aren't even technically its fault, yet Britain's train operating companies still experience these issues too often. Of course British railways still have some pros over Spanish, such as better rural service and comparable trains for journeys in Spain not going to Madrid, but I don't think my aunt's husband is taking the train in the UK again anytime soon.
@Paseos por Madrid So true. You guys can build infrastructure for so little cost, while we struggle to build one single highspeed line without turning it into the national laughing stock.
Don't call victory. Those of us who come from Extremadura know exactly what your familiar experienced XD. AVE works like a charm, regional trains though
I took the OuiGo HSR in Spain and I felt privileged to be able to use such technology. Going back home to Canada and using the GO Train (which is pretty decent for NA standards) felt so primitive and old fashioned.
A really good comparison between the rest of the world, I’ve lived and run my own business in Spain for ten years and I believe that Spain is years ahead of much of the world with transport infrastructure especially High Speed Trains.
"You can drive to Madrid to Valencia, but driving in Spain is, I think, one of the Dante´s Nine Circles"... Spain has a fabulous road network, in most cases much better and infinitely better preserved than the American ones, you can make another video about them... another anglo thinking Spain is the Capital of Mexico or Spain is between Perú and Ecuador, what a surprise!
Loving the Spain content king
I have not tried traveling out of Valencia yet. But one day I will. As someone who comes from the west coast in the the Bay Area I can definetely say the public transit here in Spain is leaps and bounds ahead of the Bay Area, especually comparing the Metro to the BART. Thank you for your info.
Living in Germany and playing the "commute roulette" every workday with Deutsche Bahn, I can only state that I am incredibly jealous about the Spanish high speed rail level of service and pricing!
I think that the high speed (long distance) rail network and the local network are two worlds apart with nothing in common. There's no sense to infere the quality of one based on the quality of the other. Even Italy has a very good high speed network, but the local is just shit. I assume even in Germany it's something like that... And I'm pretty sure in Spain too
@@Stefejan In Germany it's about the reverse, ICEs run into more delays than local RB/RE/IC trains. But even the punctuality for RB/RE/IC services is bad for European standards because the Germans have trains wait for delayed connecting trains to come in, leading to cascading delays throughout the day.
I lived in eastern Spain while the AVE line to Barcelona was under construction. It was fun seeing these new lines crossing the countryside.
When I see these videos I feel proud to be Spanish
Better be thankful
Cuanto más viajas por el mundo más orgullo del país que tenemos.
@@miguelmunozmunilla Si, a veces nos quejamos mucho por cosas que al tener un punto de vista más amplio te das cuenta que no tiene sentido discutirlas. Este país tiene muchas cosas buenas de las que estar orgulloso.
Regularly traveling between Utah and Oregon, I wish we had better high speed rail in the US. I usually drive because it's somewhat less hassle than flying. But trains offer the convenience of being able to sleep without having to book an Airbnb for the night, or dealing with stressful airport crap.
And, seriously... there's more than enough room along each interstate to build high speed rail lines. It's not too much to ask to put high-speed rail adjacent to I-84.
You need enough population to support HSR. I don't think even Seattle-Portland has quite enough population yet. Perhaps a Brightline would work in the PNW. Utah to Oregon? What Provo to Ogden to Bend over the Cascades to Portland? There is a nice Coast Starlight sleeper going south to Sacramento or vice versa.
I am from Spain, I have read in the comments that Americans do not understand what the public transport subsidy is about and see it as a tax robbery. YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG.
Understand something very clear and easy to understand. The high-speed train in Spain is becoming a very serious engine of the country's economy. Expenditure on the train is not understood as LOST money, it is an INVESTMENT, which is more than compensating in the generation of commercial benefits for the cities connected to the network.
I don't understand that stupid habit of wanting to put shit and make silly comments about taxes, debt and ideological shit and things like that.
Those people don't understand anything about what development and investment means!. It is very very tiring to read certain comments.
In addition, these people have to understand another very important thing. Spain leads in high-speed construction because they contain very well the price per km built. That is what the economy of scale and serious development projects at the state level have. All the companies dedicated to the construction of the lines are private (and it is helping them a lot to grow and develop technology that is later being exported to other countries, helping to grow their businesses. so, even countries that have not spent a single euro on taxes are benefiting from this development). So it drives me crazy when they talk about communism and bullshit like that. There is no more capitalist thought than state development in communications between cities in modern economies.
Sorry for this brick. Hopefully in the United States they understand how important development and national projects are and get a good railway network.
Bonus: A few years ago High Speed Rail Alliance (USA) interviewed a TALGO delegate about the development of the train in Spain and its operations in the United States. The interview is very interesting.
ruclips.net/video/elGR_LkuqSY/видео.html
Here in the US, taxes are framed as “evil” and “problematic” since people want to keep more of their money to themselves which is why you always have politicians that promise to “lower” taxes to vote for that candidate and when taxes are lowered, they have to cut funding from certain services to maintain the coffers. I do find it interesting that places with low taxes tend to have crappy services and selfish people.
@@97nelsn True my friend, I hope that this will change little by little. I also suppose that no one in your country questions the development and investment in highways and what helped the growth of the nation.
I have edited the message above. A few years ago, an American development group for the high-speed train (High Speed Rail Alliance) interviewed a TALGO delegate about the train in Spain and its possible operations in the United States. It is quite interesting. I leave the link here in case you are interested.
ruclips.net/video/elGR_LkuqSY/видео.html
(Also, the channel is also very interesting and educational).
Greetings.
Let me start saying I admire the rail infrastructure in Spain, I think it’s a truly amazing experience for someone that is passionate about trains.
However, I do want to focus on something I think they could do better, an easy improvement I think. I was at Atocha station in Madrid and caught suburban trains a few times, I wish the entity that manages train arrivals in the station platforms wouldn’t change the train platform 2 mins before the train’s arrival. Bear in mind we are told to go to X platform in advance, but when close to the train arrival, the platform can actually change, which leads to people’s reactions starting to run up the stairs and down again to reach out the correct platform, not a great experience and impossible for disabled people or elderly to actually get there on time.
Later on I find out through locals, it’s a typical experience with trains, now I am not sure if it’s a specific of Atocha station or a national issue, but I do hope they get better at this.
Anyway, I love traveling by train and I think Spanish people should feel very lucky with the infrastructure they have.
@Paseos por Madrid Yes, talking about commuter trains. Sorry, but then we have to agree to disagree, what you call "dynamic" assignment of platforms is in reality a lottery leading to people running around from A to D platform, having to go up and down stairs with less than 2mins notice, and I am not talking about platforms that are beside each other, you literally had to go up stairs to the station bridge and come down again to the right platform, imagine you are old, disabled or carry with you big luggage. As you said, maybe it's a good way to optimize stations and the company’s needs, but it's a terrible experience for the end user which is in the end the most important asset of any company.
I have used trains in many places in the world and I have never seen platforms being changed 2mins before the train arrives, and I think the reason are pretty obvious, you will have dozens or hundreds of people running around platforms, potential injuries and all the hassle, I don't really see how this is optimizing the experience of train users.
Finally, I am assuming your experience of this is positive, but I wouldn't generalize your view, everyone local I spoke with didn't like the experience, their reaction was actually shrug their shoulders and call out how bad it was and “it’s Spain, you know”, where I would call out to them they are very lucky on the train infrastructure they have and maybe they could write down feedback to the company to mitigate this nonsensical approach to platforms.
@Paseos por Madrid Just making a constructive critic on the end user experience, looking at a problem statement and proposing a simple solution, which by the way most other countries use it avoiding all the anxiety it creates with people not knowing if they are in the right platform.
Beyond that, I still say to all my Spanish friends, they should be proud of their train infrastructure, it's an amazing achievement worldwide.
Maybe when you are over 60 and less fit, you will remember this YT comment and agree with the problem statement.
It's an Atocha thing, as far as I know. It is at the limit of its capacity.
For those who commute daily, the way to cover yourself at peak time is to wait at the top of the bridge, as you call it, until the final platform is announced.
It works, but I hadn't thought about people with disabilities, you're right
It's the same in Chamartín, at least with trains going north, El Escorial and Cercedilla. They announce the platform at the very last minute.
@@paseospormadrid1751 There's a reason for this: Platforms 1-5 are connected to the tunnel that leads to Recoletos and out from there you can connect to the line to Alcalá de Henares, the Pasillo Verde and the old line to Andalucía. The Recoletos tunnel operates at capacity and needs to "discharge" trains as fast as possible so services don't back up. If a train cannot depart to make room for another train on its "usual" platform, the signalbox will assign another platform to get the trains there. For commuters it's not ideal and for people loaded down with suitcases it's an inconvenience, but lest you want to rebuild the station approaches from scratch, that's how it's going to be.
I’ll be honest, anger, frustration, sadness are often the emotions I experience when watching your videos. But with this one, when you got to the chart comparing travel time and frequency between comparable US cities and Valencia/Madrid, I burst out laughing. I haven’t laughed so hard in a long time. 😂 The transportation network in the States is so ridiculous that laughter is the best response. BTW, how did Spain manage to build this network? It’s not one of the wealthiest EU countries.
Pubiic transportation in the EU is a non brainer because they never felt for the "EVERYBODY NEEDS A CAR bs
@@maumor2 I don't really blame the American populace when it comes to this fate. Their the victims of the brainwashing brought to them by the auto/petrol industry and allowed by said industry's lapdogs (the US government). Car Manufacturers made the most money not on sold cars but on marketingᵀᴹ.
Thanks to VERY massive EU subsidies! And that's why Spain had to open up its rail network to French, Italian competitors...
Spain is the 4th biggest economy in the EU. The whole system pricetag was around 70Billion Euros for 4000km (and growing ), it's been under construction since 1990, every year a chunk of gov. spending goes towards financing the new sections of rail. Price per km is 17Million Euros, also one of the lowest in the world, keep in mind Spain is the 2nd most montainous country in the EU after Austria. Spanish construction and engineering companies are very good and experienced (Acciona, Ferrovial, ACS, OHL, FCC, etc.)
How could Spain afford not to? Every road you build gets you deeper into maintenance hell while nobody pays a dime for using them. Train tracks are getting paid for every hour and are built for exactly the vehicles that drive on them, as opposed to roads getting mangled by too many heavy trucks and SUVs.
It's not an outlandish expense, it's one of the few fiscally responsible options.
Video request:
Maybe a bit untypical for your channel but it would be nice to have a summary of your whole trip to Spain. What made you go, where you've been, what those places are like and what you recommend. And of course all that from an Urbanist perspective.
Awesome video. Very informative and well explained. It's hard to disagree with your observations and conclusions. It earned you another subscriber.
Complaints are most often because the network connects Madrid to very small cities, but fail to connect major Spanish cities between them, an exemple is Barcelona to Valencia, the 2nd and 3rd biggest cities in the country, that are VERY close together and in a pretty obvious corridor that could be served by high speed. But governments have prioritized connecting Madrid and making other cities more and more insignificant.
There is a connection under construction to join all of the Mediterranean cities, in the mean time there is "euromed" which is basically the same as the ave service.
@@alfrredd they're not even doing an independent right of way for high speed, they're just adapting the existint line to standart gauge so freight from Europe can go trough. And believe me, the Euromed is not even close to an AVE service, it has to change gauges and does not get over 200km/h almost in any part of the corridor.
@@eduardpuiggarcia6584 The mediterranean coast is the most populated strip of land in Spain, that's also why it has been so dificult to build through it. But I do agree it is a vital corridor for the country and should recieve a lot more investment.
I tried researching a trip to Italy where I wanted to go to between smaller cities and came upon the same problem. Heck, it's a problem in NYC where all outer-borough transit gets you in and out of Manhattan but you're screwed if you want to get between Brooklyn and Queens.
@@alfrredd well AVE routes has been built over very dense areas (Vallès, Llobregat and Penedès near Barcelona for exemple), mostly being built right besides the convential line (a very smart move) It works perfectly, regional traffic is moved by the conventional line and intercity traffic trough the high speed line. I don't know why they would combine both traffics and freight on the same line on probably the corridor with most regional traffic in all of Spain. For me it's pure laziness, it shows how they don't care about the outter regions, they just want Madrid to be a world renoun city. I'm sorry but this frustrates me a lot.
Spain is an ideal country for building a hub and spoke system of passenger rail, high or normal speeds. The capital city being also the largest city in population as the center hub can not be beat. It makes a great anchor, much like New York City makes a great anchor for Amtrak’s NEC.
You are not going to find as many great anchor cities for a hub and spoke rail system in the USA. Note I did not suggest none.
But I wish you will do a video on both Brightline rail projects, Florida and LA to LV. I think there are valid lessons we can learn from them about alignments and how that affects train speeds.
On the Miami to Orlando train, much of the alignment is on an existing freight railroad corridor, where the maximum speed reached is 110 mph, only achieving 125 mph on the short section Cocoa to Orlando.
On the Southern California to Las Vegas train, all of the alignment is within an existing freeway corridor, where the maximum speed is 180+ mph for only the straightest and levelest sections. If there was a sensitive noise or environmental issue, the maximum speed usually drops to 79 mph. Curvature and elevation grades usually drops the speed below 110 mph. How disappointing it is to see so little maximum train speeds, around 50 miles of the 240 mile distance. Might as well just used maximum speed of 125 mph trains.
I think the lesson to be learned is that the maximum speeds of trains running along Interstate highways is nearly as bad as running on existing freight railroad corridors. The main advantage Brightline took advantage of along Interstate was building a mostly single track corridor where along an existing railroad corridor they had to double track to avoid freight train conflicts. In either case, average train speeds are about equivalent to what Amtrak gets on the Northeast Corridor.
To actually get greater than average speeds over 100 mph, we need to build a brand new corridor far removed from Interstate and existing railroad corridors, like what Texas Central and California High Speed rail are proposing.
American here: I already knew this was gonna be sad (for us).
I can't wait to vacation in Spain again. Just another week of drudgery at the office. I've only taken AVANT trains so far but this time I have a reason to take a trip on AVE.
A fantastic video.
I lived in Boston for a couple of years.
Train service to New York was terrible and time--consuming.
Madrid to Valencia is about the same distance -- and yet, takes less than 2 hours.
Train service in the US used to be quite a treat -- unfortunately, not anymore.
Polution-wise, trains are also far superior do airplanes.
Train from Charleston, SC to Columbia, SC. It's a 6.45 mph, $115 trip! Some marathon runners can go at twice the speed.
The slower the trains are the more expensive the ticket
The total distance is 100miles.
I'm going to Madrid in May and I can't wait to be able to take a day trip to Barcelona and Sevilla
I took a train from Madrid to Barcelona last year and it was one of my favorite parts of the trip. High speed rail is the most relaxing way to travel.
Very interesting video. Just two comments. The first would be that I strongly recommend the Cercanias (suburban train network) to reach Madrid's two largest AVE stations (Atocha and Chamartin) from Madrid's Barajas airport. The C-1 line travels directly from the T4 terminal to those two stations in 18 min (Chamartin) and 30 min (Atocha) being very competitive with Uber or taxi times. If you do not have a lot of luggage, or it is peak traffic time, I would take the suburban train without any doubt. The second comment, complementing your analysis, is that wherever the competition (SNCF's Ouigo and Trenitalia's Iryo) has started operations (mainly Madrid-Barcelona), prices have gone down and rail passenger numbers have increased. So, the classic economic supply-demand model seems to be working even in a generally considered public market like rail is. Would be interested to see how Brightline's venture in the Miami-Orlando corridor will work (train riders vs. plane flyers, prices, etc.) once the West Palm Beach to Orlando line is in full operation.
I find it funny when people from other countries speak about how strange it is that Spain has so many high-speed trains, whilst in Spain, we criticize the fact that there are so few. In reality, the original plans for the high-speed network were much bigger, connecting a lot more cities in Spain, and a lot of people felt a little bit defrauded when they didn't happen.
In the United States, many passenger trains share tracks with freight trains. A passenger train may have to sit on a siding for hours due to freight traffic delays.
Almost no one knows about (or understand the implications of) this fact.
There are some high speed lines in Europe that are used for freight traffic too, but generally the freight trains run at night when passenger services aren't operating, or if they run during the day they have to cede to passenger trains. The issue in the US though is that the rail infrastructure is often owned by the freight operators.
@@renhanxue And also barely maintained by said operators.
A penny-wise, pound foolish attempt at "saving money".
Wendover Productions had a fairly digestible video on this subject posted not to long ago.
i am from spain, an for the record, the duck shape of the front of the train, is like in japanese trains, when a train pass trough a tunnel a great speed creates a shock of air if it has a bullet form it is better to try to put the air up of the train and not around the train and against the walls of the tunnel.
Whenever a train sped into a tunnel, it generated atmospheric pressure waves that reached the tunnel exit at the speed of sound. Like a piston in a cylinder, the train was forcing the fluid air out of the other end of the tunnel. The air exited in low-frequency waves (under 20Hz) that produced a large boom and aerodynamic vibrations.
Your comparison is correct, spain can be proud of having an excellent high speed rail network . However, important to mention that the Spanish Ave line was heavily subsidized by the government and that's how you can pay only €7.
Amtrak has been doing its best with its own government hating it. Now with more support things will change.
The DC-Pittsburgh rail line is the most windy rail line I have ever seen. West of Martinsburg, WV, it follows the Youghiogheny River through the Appalachians. Constantly bending back on itself. There is not a single km of straight track on the entire segment. No wonder it takes an entire day to travel.
Sounds utterly beautiful though...
In Spain and in Europe these fast trains have an overhead power supply; so it's possible having high speed trains and powerful cargo locomotive. In the view of high speed lines, Spain is very particular: there are two gauges: the normal (1435mm) for the high speed network and a broad gauge for the standard network. Spain is the second country with competition among rail vectors (Renfe: the national railway company, ouigo from the French SNCF and Iryo from Italy. The first network with competition between public and private was Italy.
Italians and Frech trains connect Paris with Milan.
In Usa, there are too many diesel locomotives but, if you put an overhead power supply, it's possible having a lot of problems with goods trains: it's difficult putting containers on top on each other.
I've made this trip. Was nice to see places I've been, again. Couldn't agree more. We'd be a better country in so many ways if we had more public transportation and high speed rail.
I didn't know we had such a great service in Spain!
Greetings from Madrid
Thank you for a very interesting video! It is however worth stressing that while Spain does security check luggage before you board, in the rest of Europe there are generally no security checks before boarding high speed trains. However, there are IRKSOME and slow security checks before boarding trains passing through the channel tunnel.
For an American is wasn't so bad compared to our airport security for domestic flights and certainly better than flights to Canada. Yes flying here is definitely a worse experience than the EuroStar.
El control en España es mayor porque tuvimos el mayor atentado de Europa en trenes, donde murieron muchas personas.
Funny how people say USA is too big for rail, but China, being a similar sized country built over 26k miles, mostly within the last two decades. Imagine if the USA during the last two decades never invaded Iraq and Afghanistan and instead used those trillions wasted to build a comparable system here.
"Well maybe me" gotta love the dry sarcasm of this channel 😂
We live in Southern Spain and love the train system. As far as I am concerned the two best ways to travel in Europe are train or motorcycle. The trains are fast, clean , reasonably priced and well managed.
Thanks for your video! As a spanish-british national, I can also say that the train network in the UK is also almost as shocking as the US one (although not as bad). I go to Spain regularly and I use the AVE everytime. I love it!!
Good video. I am from Cordoba and i tell you that, even having the trains full, it's told that ave has been always running on economic loses, but it's maintained due to the geographical need of connecting large nodes of population (cost-center, north-south...) Now politicians are embracing the idea of expanding the network but with regular speed trains, because not everyone needs high speed to arrive to a small city; furthermore, for some connections, there are cheaper renfe options that take basically the same time.
Miami to Orlando 2 trains per day ...
Me being German: complaining about the station in my village of 10k inhabitants being served by only 3 commuter trains per hour
Now you see why people in America are basically fucked without a car unless they live smack in the middle of a city and don’t ever want to go anywhere.
I live in a small town in Galicia, 5000 inhabitants, NW of Spain, we have 8 trains a day to the capital of the province, 20 km, they are slow because they make many stops, they take 15 minutes to cover the 20 km and we complain... ..
@@CampingforCool41 I used to live in Northland, in northern Norway several hundred miles north of the arctic circle and I lived in various small places, with the smallest one being a farm with its very own place name; Although no rail, we were always connected to reliable public transportation up there
@@EnjoyFirefighting must be nice 😩
@@CampingforCool41 it was a pleasure; Of course most people had a car, but you weren't car dependent out there. You always had the freedom to actually choose if you wanted to drive or not
2:51 nice cat
I was sitting a brewery in Krakow lamenting the lack of trains in the US. Even the bar tenders there told me the tired line of "its too spread out". And I often wonder how many people realize that many of our states are the size of countries in Europe, which means the should at least have great state rail.
Im also often told when talking about trains in the rockies that its too mountainos. Even though apparently it wasn't in the late 1800s and or somehow isn't too mountainous in Austria, Germany, Italy, etc where they have trains through their mountainous regions. Especially now as Austria is boring its way through a mountain to be able to build 250kmh rail lines through it.
Should be noted, the benefit/cost analysis is there, but it is usually considered as benefit to the economy as a whole potentially with government subsidies covering part or all the costs which are made back in taxes from economy over all.
While you are in Europe you should go to Prague. Most people outside Europe don't know much about this city, which is a real shame because it's an absolutely beautiful city. Anyway, I got sidetracked. Prague has an amazing transit system. Although it's a little less bike friendly than Amsterdam, Prague is still highly walkable. The city has a surprisingly large metro system, an extensive light rail network, BRT routes, robust and surprisingly reliable conventional bus services, and even some old Soviet made trolley buses still in service. They also have an electric-powered commuter rail system and regular rail service to other cities in Czechia and Germany as well. It would be fascinating to see how Prague stitched together its transit system that includes both systems established by the former communist Soviet puppet government and the newer systems established by the current EU member state. Despite the difficulties of modernizing the old Soviet designed system and establishing modern systems, Prague is a place where you absolutely don't need a car.
You should take trains in Germany :P
No check-in. You walk up to the platform up to 10 _seconds_ before the train leaves and just get on. You can even just buy a ticket on the train.
It's the ultimate "hey what about I go here" and you just do it experience.
The trains are sometimes a bit late but also extremely comfortable
Gotta be on time even when the trains aren't 😅. The German trains genuinely just fucking leave. There's no announcement, no whistle, nothing. It's still so baffling to me after moving here from the U.S. I don't have to scan anything before getting on since they just scan mid-journey and they know if you have already been checked so they don't bother you twice. German efficiency may be a national myth but I can see how Americans believe in it when comparing the travel experiences.
If the United States had been either the first, or had had the largest the largest high-speed system in the world, there would be no doubt that many of the current anti-rail people today would have been the most patriotic, high-speed-rail-chest-beating people in the world. But because other countries have had a leg up on us, they are dismissed for being too foreign, and therefore we can't have that here.
Yeah.....that's totally it, dude.....
If only one could travel back in time and run a "reefer madness" -style campaign against the dangers of cars as they were becoming technologically viable alternatives to trains...
Valencia to Madrid in less than two hours. Valencia Sorolla to Atocha. I love train travel. Arriving in any capital city is always so exciting. As a child I did London to Paris by train between parents. Also did the Paris to Les Gets sleeper train. Sheets and blankets and breakfast on a tray with a white tea cloth and real china. Also Paris - Prague sleeper train, eating sausages in Frankfurt am Main in a tiny tavern before getting on the overnight to Prague. Customs at the Czech border was exciting. Train travel is the best.
actually the construction of High Speed lines in Spain is part of a bigger plan: changing the entire broad gauge network from 1668 mm to normal gauge (1435 mm). This will take some decades. The point is that it is NOT just about passenger trains but about international freight transport, too. Spain and France have agreed to revive the line via Canfranc as a line in normal gauge. So there will be four normal gauge line corridors connecting France and Spain, one north of Barcelona to Perpignan (classic and new high speed line), one in the central Pyrenees at Canfranc and one between Bayonne and San Sebastian in the West of the mountains, not to forget the mountain line between Barcelona to Toulouse running close to Andorra.
The problem for international trains - be it for freight or passengers - is that there are different signaling and energy systems in every nation.
Note, you can take an overnight from Madrid to Lisbon. A great run!
Is it back? They got rid of it during Covid.
@@JohnnyBGod not sure,. It there is a HUGE push for overnight expansion across the EU
Jep… During the 90s somebody had the stupid idea to put overnight service back into control of the national carriers - which surprisingly failed, because distances inside a country are rarely long enough to justify overnight; even more when you are building high speed rail everywhere. Since a few years this has luckily changed with a new network again organized on an European level and mostly run by Austrian ÖBB.
No you can't, whether overnight or during the day. Overnight trains between Madrid and Lisboa and other cities in Spain were canceled during Covid. It is unfortunate because RENFE Trenhotel rolling stock was awesome. Right now, there is little cooperation between Spanish and Portuguese railways. The Madrid-Lisboa night train operation was losing a couple million Euros a year. The Portuguese government has said that the Madrid and Lisbon are already joined cheaply and frequently by air. While Spain is building a high speed line between Madrid, Extremadura and the Portuguese border, the Portuguese prefer investing in the Lisboa-Porto-Vigo route.
Public benefits?!?!? In America?!?!? Don't hold your breath! Profit over everything, we hate competition.
Amtrak refuses to invest in electrification of its routes, it is perfectly contempt with a mid-20th century model for transit. While yes, Amtrak is underfunded and the US rail network isn’t nationalized, it’s still rather pathetic it hasn’t undergone electrification projects since the 90s. Instead, Amtrak has recently ordered new big-ass diesels to keep up with its delusional status quo. The rest of the world is moving past loco-hauled trains in favor of multiple units all the while the US is subsidizing antiquated standards for rail. It’s infuriating.
I have high hopes for Caltrain selling the United States on the tremendous benefits of EMUs...
I love the mix of ancient and modern that you find in almost every corner of Spain. I remember visiting Madrid for the first time in the early 1980s. This was still less than 10 years after the death of Franco, and there was still a somewhat run down air about the place. Returning 15 years or so later it seemed to have come to life, with impressive modern museums and galleries, and other public buildings, like Estacion de Atocha, having been given an impressive and stylish makeover. It's a story that has been repeated in provincial cities. The makeover of the railways has been astonishing. I remember using some pretty basic trains back in the 80s, that trundled amiably back and forth between stations that always seemed far too big for the traffic they handled, and where the bar / caffé was likely as not closed. One could never have imagined the change that was coming just around the corner.
It's best not to look down on the Franco era as a failure in Spanish history, but as a better alternative to what could have happened. For all he did, he kept Spain's culture alive and stopped the communists from taking control. Without him, Spain would be totally poverty stricken like many former Soviet-occupied regions.
@@JohnFromAccounting I'm not an expert on Spanish history, but I don't think I can agree with your charitable view of Franco. In the 30s he was a facist, and a natural ally of Hitler and Mussolini. He could easily have led Spain to fight alongside the axis powers in WW2. I don't think we can judge the Communists of the 1930s by the same lights as the Soviet-style brand of communism that was propogated through Eastern European countries that fell into the Soviet bloc, particularly under Stalin and on into the Cold War. Many people saw communism as the ideological antidote to the facism that took such a terrible hold over European politics in the 30s, and led to the carnage of WW2. Although the Spanish Republicans received support from the Soviet Union, they were a coalition of interests and supported Spain's democratically elected government. So I don't think we can assume that Spain would necessarily have followed the same path as communist states in Eastern Europe.
Franco's political position may have have modified somewhat as the decades passed, but he was a totalitarian dictator who presided over a one party Christian nationalist state for 36 years, he ruled in a particularly arbitrary and erratic way, for many years he virtually isolated Spain from the rest of the world, and he did some very wicked things in his time. The Spanish economy boomed in the 60s, but from a very low starting point, and still lagged behind other Western European nations at Franco's death. The transition to democracy that followed under the monarchy of Juan Carlos was long overdue, and economic prosperity lagged a decade behind. I believe there are many scars that still linger from Francoism beneath the tacit silence embodied in the Pact of forgetting. If Spaniards have decided that it is better not to fret over old divisions, they have also decided that Franco is not a leader or national symbol they feel much desire to celebrate.
I was in Spain and needed to travel just over 100m to get to Malaga airport. I got a coach as this was the way many Spanish do it and I found it was very reasonably priced, comfortable and the trip itself was most enjoyable. It was a beautiful scenic route and i saw much more of Spain that way. Time was unimportant. The Spanish are not ones to rush about. It was a relaxed journey.
Recently took the train from turin home to belgium via paris. the night before we left, we hit a grocery store and dropped 200 euros on italian products we cant get here or would have to pay way more for. Pretty epic
Something to add: Most of the tracks are owned by the freight rails and they are usually at the mercy for dealing with the delays, despite the priority passenger rail law that's hardly enforced.
The Northeast Corridor is owned by Amtrak, but it's not much better. There is something intrinsic in US that passenger trains do not work.
@@onetwothreeabc 50 years of lacking sufficent rail investment would do the trick.
@@antibishonen Why don't Amtrak invest on the tracks they own so that they can provide more, better service and earn more profit?
6:50 Just to point out that Ouigo is not really a private operator, it's owned by SNCF. It's sort of funny how all of the private competitors in Europe are either owned by either their own state operator or another country's state operator. Running a railway is a capital-intensive and long-term venture that most private investors are not willing to venture in to.
Madrid and Valencia are old and beautiful cities packed with culture and things to see and do. The only reason I can see to take a train from DC to Pittsburgh is if you're a drug mule and the cops have stepped up surveillance of the Greyhound bus system.
The good thing about taking the high speed train between Valencia and Madrid is that Madrid has good public transportation and the trains go from city center to city center.
We live an hour south of Valencia and for several weeks we had to see my wife's doctor in Aranjuez which is near Madrid. It would be nice if we could have taken the train but driving is faster to Aranjuez than training from Valencia->Madrid->Aranjez.
Train prices have come down and gas prices have gone up. Driving to Madrid and back takes me about a tank of gas. Let's say that costs about €75. It still is less than two round tickets were the last time we took the train. Also I have to pay for parking in Valencia. Driving takes longer but not that much longer. On the other hand taking the train is much more comfortable and as I said earlier it drops me off in the middle of the city.
My point is that there are a number of factors both with pros and cons to consider when making this sort of a decision.
We recently bought a pair of 30 day Interrail passes (which demonstrates that we do love rail). We plan to take some of the scenic routes through Switzerland, Italy, Austria and France. To get seat reservations on some of the better scenic routes such as the Glacier Express it's necessary to do so two or three months ahead of time but we can't schedule our Renfe tickets into and out of Spain that early because they have not been put into the system yet so instead I bought Ryanair tickets to fly from Alicante to Toulouse. Like I said, there are a lot of factors that need to be considered.
Having said that public transportation is still an enormous improvement of the best that the US has to offer.
We were in Prague a while back and during rush hour traffic I watched one double tram after another packed with commuters heading out of the city. The amount of traffic congestion those trams eliminated has to be enormous.
At least in the US gasoline is cheap. It had better be with so many people sitting behind the wheel for hours and not moving during their daily commutes.