Last time I done this was in an old EPB, a family friend who me father had helped get a job on the railways gave me a cab ride to Orpington. Even though Bromley South was a few miles from my Sundridge Park home I did enjoy using that compared to Grove Park and many a CEP run down to Margate give me fond memories on the ol' PT. BTW years and years ago, on the approach line there, there used to be a quite busy cripple siding and loading dock that was often used by the big shops in Bromley High St, sometimes would see Transfesa cars parked there as well. My old man often signalled out of Shortlands and Beck Jnc and often found lurking at Chislehurst signalbox and I did BR school at Beckenham House in my own day back when they had just moved Waterloo signalling school there.
Wasn't that clapham jnc signalling school?......I went there back in 1965, it then moved to Beckenham, just across the road from the station, behind the Pub.
Top job Emmo, always appreciated the knowledge of OTM Drivers as a Signalman, even in the days of *Z09's and the speed limitations thereof, but give em' a run and they pick their feet up when required.
We had a 6Z09 a year or so ago, because the TCA wasn’t working properly mid route. Becoming less of an issue now with axle counters appearing everywhere
@@emmo999 What if you're running through consistent double yellows, or singles that clear to double as you approach? Is it good enough to just be ready to brake if you come up on a single, or is it best practice to drop back to a less restrictive aspect?
@@blueb0g Absolutely. If I’m getting 2Y after 2Y after 2Y, I’ll drop back a bit. There is a risk that whilst you’re cancelling the AWS signal after signal that the warning loses its impact, and could possibly lead to a spad if you don’t notice it’s suddenly 1Y or even red. So I will drop back and get some greens. It’s finding that balance between driving safely and making progress
@@blueb0g I should also add that whilst running on continuous 2Y aspects I’m limiting my speed, not running full line speed. The exact speed will depend on route knowledge, such as distance between signals
@@emmo999 That's great, thanks. How detailed does route knowledge have to be in terms of distance between signals? So you have a good sense of the difference between a double yellow that you can take at a good canter, and a double yellow that if you don't start slowing now, and the next one is a single yellow, you've stuffed yourself?
In the 70's I remember both Orpington A and Orpington B, sometimes I would go in on nights with me dad when it was a quiet book, he migrated onto Swanley as his base relief for a while after. I did get to see the old nuclear command centre as he was passed out on Orpington and Reigate signalling commands in case of nuclear attack, pretty cool it was.
Bromley North used to fascinate me so I had to go there just to have a look. Ah, the slam door EPB's, when they were reefurbished they had a wonderful smell, and wonderful bouncy seats.
I enjoyed that but I have to say,I am glad that was not my Commuter Route as the trees line the embankment, virtually, the whole way and I love looking out of the windows. lol What was all that beeping, please, and do the drivers control which line to go on thru the route or is it done automatically? :)
The beeps are the various alerts that drivers need to respond to, to make sure that they’re conscious and alert. If a driver doesn’t respond, a train will automatically put the emergency brakes on and come a stand. It’s what some people thing of as the dead man’s handle. With regard to the route, it’s all set by the signallers. The driver has no input into the route given, but obviously needs to make sure the correct route is set (mistakes do happen)
I very much enjoyed the video. It made me wonder about how the signallers prioritise each type of train. I'm guessing in that part of world, something like a London --> Hastings train would get first priority, then the suburban stopping trains, then the freight. But how your tamper would fit in with light engines, out of service passenger stock etc I don't know.
Generally they go through in the order they’re meant to. But otherwise, passengers go through first. They tend to moan more about late running than a container train 😂 What happened here was the freight train was running late, but should have been in front. Do they kept it there, despite the fact that - had we been able to get past - we’d have disappeared into the distance
Many thanks for an interesting video. Between Bromley South and Bickley you passed very close to the two houses where I grew up in the 60s - 70s (the days of beloved EPBs and other slam-door stock 💚 ). One thing I can't quite make out: are the AWS beeps different, depending on the signal aspect?
I grew up in that area too, in the 80s - Pembroke Road There are two AWS indications - bell and horn. Nowadays they’re electronically generated noises but used to be the real thing. The bell (nowadays a ping) tells you the next signal is green. The horn (nowadays a buzzer) tells you the next signal is NOT green ie yellow or red, but not specifics. If you hear the horn, it must be acknowledged within 2.2 seconds, otherwise the train assumes the driver is incapacitated and applied the emergency brakes
Good morning Have you ever been reversed at Bickley (Platform 3) after coming up the Chatham? From memory I think it might be VS626 on the crossover, but I'm probably wrong on that. I used to see tampers, returning to Keylands, reversing there fairly often at about 5am in the morning, although that's quite a while back now. These days they seem to reverse where you did (at VS617 on the UCF at Bromley), or at VS633 at Swanley. I've never understood the line designations between Swanley and Shortlands. The fast lines are used by the stoppers and the slow lines are used by the Ramsgate's & Dover's! Keep up the good work, it is much appreciated.
I’ve used that crossover, but only whilst within an engineer’s possession. Not during normal running. As you say, Bromley South or Swanley are the regulars. The line names are historic. Today’s service pattern does seem odd, but what we today deem as fasts were not the fastest. There used to be the faster boat trains, and cross country Liverpool/Manchester services that stopped even less. These used the fasts. I remember, as a child, seeing an Intercity class 47 with a rake on Mk2s in platform 1 and being in awe of it
@@emmo999 I'm old enough to remember the Golden Arrow and the Night Ferry being hauled by Class 71 DC electric locos (although the Night Ferry often had a 73 at the sharp end with a rake of navy blue French wagon-lits sleeping cars in tow). Those trains always used the "slow lines"!
Lots of 'pheeps' during parts of this journey. It is the only in-cab sound I do not recognise what it is. I know all the others, from the AWS dings and parps (as I call them) via the driver's vigilance and the radio changing channel sounds to the rattling fire extinguisher -- but not the pheeps!
You’re going to have to give me a time stamp to check out exactly what it is you’re referring to. Happy to explain all, if I know what your “pheep” is!
On these machines, that is the vigilance. Obviously passenger trains it is more commonly a series of short bleeps. On these it is a continuous bleep. It is worth noting that it goes off every minute, regardless of whether the controls are adjusted or not. Sometimes it may appear more frequently than one minute, but that’s only the driver resetting it on the pedal, rather than waiting for it to go off by itself
Hi .11:10 when you are in the drivers seat stopped like that and see a train driving fast on the opposite track , do you ever imagine it smashing into you at all and the train exploding
I think the only thing some drivers will say they’ve had is a SPAD dream, where you have a nightmare you’re flying past a signal at red. I know I’ve had one
Whenever, as a passenger, I travel on The DLR from Lewisham and it goes into a single-track tunnel after about 10 minutes, on its way to London when they "appear" to be driverless and, at 69 years old, deliberately go to the front seat, as if I am the driver:)
Thank you I live in Orpington so it’s great to see it from the front cab. Paul
Glad you enjoyed it
Petts Wood was a town built around the station - the estate agents followed, then the pub in the Station Square.
Thank you for the sub titles
Greetings from Australia. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you. There is more. I would have uploaded further, but the journey was dragging being stuck behind that freight train!
Last time I done this was in an old EPB, a family friend who me father had helped get a job on the railways gave me a cab ride to Orpington. Even though Bromley South was a few miles from my Sundridge Park home I did enjoy using that compared to Grove Park and many a CEP run down to Margate give me fond memories on the ol' PT. BTW years and years ago, on the approach line there, there used to be a quite busy cripple siding and loading dock that was often used by the big shops in Bromley High St, sometimes would see Transfesa cars parked there as well. My old man often signalled out of Shortlands and Beck Jnc and often found lurking at Chislehurst signalbox and I did BR school at Beckenham House in my own day back when they had just moved Waterloo signalling school there.
Wasn't that clapham jnc signalling school?......I went there back in 1965, it then moved to Beckenham, just across the road from the station, behind the Pub.
Top job Emmo, always appreciated the knowledge of OTM Drivers as a Signalman, even in the days of *Z09's and the speed limitations thereof, but give em' a run and they pick their feet up when required.
We had a 6Z09 a year or so ago, because the TCA wasn’t working properly mid route. Becoming less of an issue now with axle counters appearing everywhere
An excellent example of how to smoothly "Ride the Yellows." Thanks and Cheers from Wisconsin!
I’m a firm believer in not rushing up to reds - you’re setting yourself up for a fall!
@@emmo999 What if you're running through consistent double yellows, or singles that clear to double as you approach? Is it good enough to just be ready to brake if you come up on a single, or is it best practice to drop back to a less restrictive aspect?
@@blueb0g Absolutely. If I’m getting 2Y after 2Y after 2Y, I’ll drop back a bit. There is a risk that whilst you’re cancelling the AWS signal after signal that the warning loses its impact, and could possibly lead to a spad if you don’t notice it’s suddenly 1Y or even red. So I will drop back and get some greens. It’s finding that balance between driving safely and making progress
@@blueb0g I should also add that whilst running on continuous 2Y aspects I’m limiting my speed, not running full line speed. The exact speed will depend on route knowledge, such as distance between signals
@@emmo999 That's great, thanks. How detailed does route knowledge have to be in terms of distance between signals? So you have a good sense of the difference between a double yellow that you can take at a good canter, and a double yellow that if you don't start slowing now, and the next one is a single yellow, you've stuffed yourself?
Brilliant thanks for posting
Another nice video. Really enjoy them. See you on the next! Cheers mates! 😊
Thanks for the ride, really enjoyed it.
In the 70's I remember both Orpington A and Orpington B, sometimes I would go in on nights with me dad when it was a quiet book, he migrated onto Swanley as his base relief for a while after. I did get to see the old nuclear command centre as he was passed out on Orpington and Reigate signalling commands in case of nuclear attack, pretty cool it was.
Bromley North used to fascinate me so I had to go there just to have a look. Ah, the slam door EPB's, when they were reefurbished they had a wonderful smell, and wonderful bouncy seats.
I grew up around that branch, regularly using Sundridge Park and Bromley North. Much affection here for that line!
I enjoyed that but I have to say,I am glad that was not my Commuter Route as the trees line the embankment, virtually, the whole way and I love looking out of the windows. lol
What was all that beeping, please, and do the drivers control which line to go on thru the route or is it done automatically? :)
The beeps are the various alerts that drivers need to respond to, to make sure that they’re conscious and alert. If a driver doesn’t respond, a train will automatically put the emergency brakes on and come a stand. It’s what some people thing of as the dead man’s handle.
With regard to the route, it’s all set by the signallers. The driver has no input into the route given, but obviously needs to make sure the correct route is set (mistakes do happen)
@@emmo999 Thanks for that info,emmo:)
🚂👍
I very much enjoyed the video. It made me wonder about how the signallers prioritise each type of train. I'm guessing in that part of world, something like a London --> Hastings train would get first priority, then the suburban stopping trains, then the freight. But how your tamper would fit in with light engines, out of service passenger stock etc I don't know.
Generally they go through in the order they’re meant to. But otherwise, passengers go through first. They tend to moan more about late running than a container train 😂 What happened here was the freight train was running late, but should have been in front. Do they kept it there, despite the fact that - had we been able to get past - we’d have disappeared into the distance
Many thanks for an interesting video. Between Bromley South and Bickley you passed very close to the two houses where I grew up in the 60s - 70s (the days of beloved EPBs and other slam-door stock 💚 ). One thing I can't quite make out: are the AWS beeps different, depending on the signal aspect?
I grew up in that area too, in the 80s - Pembroke Road
There are two AWS indications - bell and horn. Nowadays they’re electronically generated noises but used to be the real thing. The bell (nowadays a ping) tells you the next signal is green. The horn (nowadays a buzzer) tells you the next signal is NOT green ie yellow or red, but not specifics. If you hear the horn, it must be acknowledged within 2.2 seconds, otherwise the train assumes the driver is incapacitated and applied the emergency brakes
@@emmo999 Pembroke Road - very close to where I lived when born (Canon Road) and primary school (St. George's, Tylney Road). 😊
Yes that’s where I started my education too. Miss Smith was headmistress - felt like she’d been there decades!
@emmo999 She was still there in the 80s? Good grief!
I seem to recall she retired around 85, replaced by a Mr Kendall. I was at the school 80-87
Does the live rail alternate from left to right to allow the pickup shoe to cool?
Prevents excessive wear on one side (like staggered contact wire on OLE) and in some circumstances is dictated by safety, eg stations.
Good morning
Have you ever been reversed at Bickley (Platform 3) after coming up the Chatham?
From memory I think it might be VS626 on the crossover, but I'm probably wrong on that.
I used to see tampers, returning to Keylands, reversing there fairly often at about 5am in the morning, although that's quite a while back now.
These days they seem to reverse where you did (at VS617 on the UCF at Bromley), or at VS633 at Swanley.
I've never understood the line designations between Swanley and Shortlands.
The fast lines are used by the stoppers and the slow lines are used by the Ramsgate's & Dover's!
Keep up the good work, it is much appreciated.
I’ve used that crossover, but only whilst within an engineer’s possession. Not during normal running. As you say, Bromley South or Swanley are the regulars.
The line names are historic. Today’s service pattern does seem odd, but what we today deem as fasts were not the fastest. There used to be the faster boat trains, and cross country Liverpool/Manchester services that stopped even less. These used the fasts. I remember, as a child, seeing an Intercity class 47 with a rake on Mk2s in platform 1 and being in awe of it
@@emmo999
I'm old enough to remember the Golden Arrow and the Night Ferry being hauled by Class 71 DC electric locos (although the Night Ferry often had a 73 at the sharp end with a rake of navy blue French wagon-lits sleeping cars in tow).
Those trains always used the "slow lines"!
It’s a puzzler. I’m sure there was good reasoning at the time then
Can you do Bromley South to Sevenoaks via Otford?
Lots of 'pheeps' during parts of this journey. It is the only in-cab sound I do not recognise what it is. I know all the others, from the AWS dings and parps (as I call them) via the driver's vigilance and the radio changing channel sounds to the rattling fire extinguisher -- but not the pheeps!
You’re going to have to give me a time stamp to check out exactly what it is you’re referring to. Happy to explain all, if I know what your “pheep” is!
@@emmo999 The first is at 33 seconds in, and there are plenty more after that.
On these machines, that is the vigilance. Obviously passenger trains it is more commonly a series of short bleeps. On these it is a continuous bleep.
It is worth noting that it goes off every minute, regardless of whether the controls are adjusted or not. Sometimes it may appear more frequently than one minute, but that’s only the driver resetting it on the pedal, rather than waiting for it to go off by itself
I should add this noise is on all the tamper rides!
@@emmo999 Ah, right! Interesting. I have learned yet another new thing (or two) and I thank you for the info.
Hi .11:10
when you are in the drivers seat stopped like that and see a train driving fast on the opposite track , do you ever imagine it smashing into you at all and the train exploding
No. Can’t say I ever have
@@emmo999 Thank you
I think the only thing some drivers will say they’ve had is a SPAD dream, where you have a nightmare you’re flying past a signal at red. I know I’ve had one
@@emmo999 very interesting thank you for sharing
Whenever, as a passenger, I travel on The DLR from Lewisham and it goes into a single-track tunnel after about 10 minutes, on its way to London when they "appear" to be driverless and, at 69 years old, deliberately go to the front seat, as if I am the driver:)
It appears the signal lights work like on streets .
👍👍👍❤🤍💚