I used to be convinced that this lady HAD to have been based on a certain professor at a certain art school in Boston. But I now understand that it's like Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons, where they're ALL like that.
Haha watching this scene makes me so happy that I'm now graduated. Anyone that's been to high school has dealt with a pretentious ass of an art teacher, seems like no high school is complete without one. I had a huge douche of an art teacher for 3 years in a row. Nothing was ever good enough for her, and I always thought she was quite jealous of the students who were very talented. She used to pick on this one really talented guy, and he ended up getting a full scholarship to a really good school. Guess he showed her.
Mhm girl. Pretentious ass hipsters. That's why I love this movie even more than I did when it came out. It foresaw hipster culture and satirically upstaged it which I think makes it even more relevant than it was back in 2001.
this is hilarious!!! i totally undrstand the girl in the glasses. im majoring in art and i hate professors and students that makeup ridiculous meanings for a super simplistic piece
@Stephanie Butler That's a plausible interpretation, but the person who directed that piece for the film confirmed on her website that its title really is "Mirror, Father, Mirror."
These scenes spoke to me so much. I learned a lot in film school, but I can see how the art has become pretentious by favoring crap over real talent. That girl who make the overly feminist pieces was so obnoxious
Are you sure they no longer teach technique? I wouldn't know. I'm finishing RISD where both technique and concept is stressed to a high degree. There is no art theory at all. It feels very alienating to leave campus and go to any NYC art gallery -- I can't relate with anyone and I end up having very critical arguments with people who think others are impressed by their ArtHis101. I hope things are changing... call me an elitist but there have to be stricter standards.
I don't know. I don't know that I agree with the joke. I actually like the idea of a cup symbolizing womanhood. The sword and the chalice are often used to symbolize male and female in the Dark/Middle Ages. The whole DaVinci Code idea that Christ's wife was the Holly Grail is hokey but intriguing. I kind of like it. And the art of schmoozing a professor or anyone of influence is the greatest art of all. Diplomacy. Being surly- not so much an art.
The actress that played the teacher absolutely nailed her role as an art teacher. I was mid-art degree when I got fed up with people that put more value on pretentious art than talent.
@@zeltzamer4010 she deserved a golden globe. Fortunately her character actually appreciated and understood Enid the most, but unfortunately that was ruined by a Karen who missed the point of Enid's "racist" art exhibition.
My favorite character in Ghost World is the pretentious art teacher. "There's zero audience for my crappy self-indulgent art, so I'll become a teacher and impose it on a bunch of kids!" Everyone knows a person like this, it spans every subject. See also: the English teacher who imposes their "how you SHOULD see it" views on classic novels
Reminds me of my first art class. It was with this woman who was super pretentious bc she studied under some famous artist. She hated me because all I wanted to do was draw Pikachu in her class. I was like ten.
That fucking pony drawing slays me! Every art class I've ever taken had a student who'd turn in such a drawing. Aprilia if you're reading this, keep externalizing the internal!! XDDD
Even as a studio art major i find this totally funny and accurate. Not all art classes and professors are like this though, but there are some just like this. I really hate how some students are allowed to take some half-assed creation and dub it "art" with some bullshit meaning. Students like Enid who can actually draw and draw whatever they want for no reason are awesome.
In my 11th grade we were all doing ceramics at one point during art class. I had the spontaneous idea to make a devil head from the shoulders up. My devil head was slightly tipped back as if he was looking up to Heaven and God. I still vividly recall my young and fairly attractive female art teacher being a little taken aback by what I was creating. She gave me a strange look and didn't say much. When it was completely fire kiln finished and graded she only gave me a C. She said it had horns but was missing its ears. I told her the devil did not want to hear the truth hence no ears. Still I only received a C grade on it.
Lol, I detested my 'Art class' - had Enid's 'this is who I am' attitude, and wanted to stick with my abstract and impressionism. My teacher slapped me with Ds regularly, but looking back, to me the D stands for: Didn't conform to the Margarets. So now I wear it with pride.
I will participate in an art contest where judges are rather "conceptual", last year they gave the first prize to a cardboard box with a real dead cat inside. I plan to troll handing the cup with the tampon, wish me luck.
I won the 3rd place. I was like wtf is wrong this people, then I received a $250 check and it was easy to assimilate :P So I guess it went pretty well.
Sometimes art can be as complex as the sketch of a man bludgeoning a person in the head with a blunt object, or as simple as a tampon in a teacup. Deep.
The Maya Deren wannabe art teacher is not only one of my favorite characters in this film, she's one of my favorite satirical characters in the history of film.
This clip from the EXCELLENT 'Ghost World' movie shows the typical attitude of Art School/College teachers toward comic book art - this film was based on a comic book about a girl in a dead-end town - she draws cartoons for a hobby and here the art teacher belittles its worth - an experience shared by myself and many other artists who like to draw comics
Craft has always been the poorer relation of fine art since the beginnings of modernism. Conceptual art has cast a long shadow over art schools, in fact many leading art schools no longer teach technique. The art school I went to was very big on theory and low on skill training, they left it up to the students to decide what they wanted to do. It very much reflects Arts institutional leanings (which is defined by the market).
I don't see that as a bad thing. Conceptual art gets appreciated in universities and closed circles, and 'omg so beautiful' art gets popular on instagram or whatever.
@@mayafey401 well the bad thing here is that nobody can draw anymore. they learn that shitting in a bin and projecting some meaning onto it is what art is art used to be about depicting meaningful stuff and the beauty of life. no explanation needed. people all over the world come to see it. it required skill and the ability to track the beauty of a at first glance simple situation. now you can just throw a dead cat into a box and win first price in a contest ... wow and this somehow outshines the girl that refined her skills with oil colors for 15 years nonstop and decided to depict her cat that has grown old and tired and stunning colors that underline the sadness and the beauty of life and death at the same time ... you get it now ?
@@mayafey401 webneel.com/daily/sites/default/files/images/project/beautiful-oil-painting-by-andrei-belichenko%20(2).jpg look at this, someone drew that with their hands and oilcolors mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/oil-painting-underwater-paintings-isabel-emrich-11.jpg and now that boy that threw a dead cat in a box comes along and gets a better markk than you, gets the attention and gets the money thats fucked up!
And BTW, this movie was addressing Clowes' experiences at Pratt in the late 70's, when conceptual/performance art was the trend -- if you currently have professors like this in COLLEGE, then you probably go to a shitty art school (or university) and are not getting a good education. Which means, your portfolio must not have been good to begin with.
I still don't see why comic book art is not classified as fine art. It is not always used to portray anti-intellectuallism and entertainment. And why the hell does the teacup girl get a high grade for the coathanger sculpture?Sally Brown (Peanut's Comics) did the same thing and was graded an F.
This teacher makes me genuinely angry. As a budding graphic designer, I understand that minimalism, when done well, can still look great, conveying a message without necessarily having to go into elaborate detail. However, when you have minor, obscure thing that you call a "piece" which has absolutely no discernible meaning that can be deduced, yet you ascribe some way-out-of-left-field story to it, I find it just pretentious.
i love the movie aswell! im here cause i wanted to look up enids drawings in her book, spec. the triangles with the eye, cause i wanted to copy it. i dreamed about it last night :d first time i watched the movie i saw it a couple of times in a row without a break really
ANYTHING that a child or teenager draws should be encouraged, even if it's not fashionable or sophisticated or well drawn or well shaded enough or highbrow enough
My teacher in high school was like that. Now I go to an art university in Japan so I get it on the opposite side of the spectrum. Its interesting hahaha.
What I like about Ghost World is that you can relate to some of the subjects it has. The art class scenes in particular, stand out to me the most. Also what Roberta says at 2:41... ouch.
If she shows that short film, Mirror Father Mirror, to people that she is meeting for the first time because she thinks it says so much about who she is or "what it is like to inhabit my specific skin" then she must have had a pretty horrifying childhood and undergone a great deal of therapy.
Its been ages since graphic art has been belittled. Neil Gaiman's Sandman and Buckingham's Fables have won some rather prestigious awards. I have never really been into comics myself, but I know enough to know people respect it from a literature standpoint. This would be valid around fifty years ago. Yeah, if you have an art teacher that is holding on to a fifty year old view point, you might want to transfer.
This is what Lizzie became when her mother put Drop Dead Fred back in the Jack-In-The-Box; a brown-noser who puts tampons in teacups to please her pretentious teacher. :P
LOL i love ghost world. the best parts of these scenes are when enid and margaret shoot each other dirty looks after the teacher praises margaret's pieces.
No, that's a fallacy. Usually people who have this opinion have limited experience with horrible art instructors or they lack the humility and maturity to accept valid critique of the art they are creating. I've had some wonderful art teachers who were simultaneously engaged in creating amazing art of their own. These are also the sort of teachers who respectfully gave students the freedom to pursue their own vision & method rather than attempting to enforce a particular style or perspective.
Not everybody that does summer school classes is there because they failed. Margaret was probably a year down from Enid and working ahead to get credits. After my freshman year in high school I had to make up a Science class and there were kids that hadn’t even started high school taking the class,
There has to be a balance of both strong craft *and* strong concept. When everybody is a strong craftsman/illustrator, an intelligent concept sets you apart. Why aim for less? Chris Ware and Clowes are a prime example of this.
I had a similar experience at art school. There were a few technique-heavy classes but for the most part it was very open and floaty and theoretical and it wasn't very stimulating for people who came to learn how to do things. And I agree with RubiconXing that "strong craft and strong concept" are important.
for me here in germany art class was always like, "here take a brush and some colors and draw something. ill grade you afterwards" we never got teached anything and we never even discussed stuff theoretically. there just were the occasional historical information - like "this is impressionism and these are names of artists related to that" "now do that too please"
Ileana Douglas. She's been in tons of things, going back decades. You can find clips here on RUclips, and on Twitter, as well. She's a wonderful actress, and a lovely lady.
I study drawing, a lot of the discipline and the practical side of it and obviously the independence of study and I really like it. Because no one has the pretention of slapping stuff together and bullshitting. plus I just fucking love cartoons.
I used to be convinced that this lady HAD to have been based on a certain professor at a certain art school in Boston. But I now understand that it's like Comic Book Guy on the Simpsons, where they're ALL like that.
Haha watching this scene makes me so happy that I'm now graduated. Anyone that's been to high school has dealt with a pretentious ass of an art teacher, seems like no high school is complete without one. I had a huge douche of an art teacher for 3 years in a row. Nothing was ever good enough for her, and I always thought she was quite jealous of the students who were very talented. She used to pick on this one really talented guy, and he ended up getting a full scholarship to a really good school. Guess he showed her.
Mhm girl. Pretentious ass hipsters. That's why I love this movie even more than I did when it came out. It foresaw hipster culture and satirically upstaged it which I think makes it even more relevant than it was back in 2001.
I had the best art teachers lol, they were the only ones I liked!
@@tatehildyard5332 You must watch Art School Confidential! It expands on this topic.
Well, if nothing else it totally prepares you for the real world where people hate art with a passion.
I had one of those in HS, made me feel like a loser - then a college one loved me and complimented me all the time - so weird
Themes in the story:
Mirror: Enid's initial identity
Father: Father figure in Seymour
Mirror: Enid's new identity at the end of the movie
are you practicing somewhere as an art teacher?
Poor Philip. Haha.
this is hilarious!!! i totally undrstand the girl in the glasses. im majoring in art and i hate professors and students that makeup ridiculous meanings for a super simplistic piece
LOL "I thought this was maybe supposed to be your father."
I've noticed that goes over most people's heads
@@pistachiosandpopcorn7146 Is the implication that the teacher thought he had an abusive father?
@Stephanie Butler That's a plausible interpretation, but the person who directed that piece for the film confirmed on her website that its title really is "Mirror, Father, Mirror."
She is EXACTLY my art teacher, but then with red hair
These scenes spoke to me so much.
I learned a lot in film school, but I can see how the art has become pretentious by favoring crap over real talent. That girl who make the overly feminist pieces was so obnoxious
The teacher was Joe Pesci's girlfriend when he met Billy Batts
She also got a part of her face bitten off by Robert Deniro in Cape Fear
@@jackedkerouac4414 And she had orange skin like a carrot as George's secret admirer on seinfeld
This movie rightfully ridicules "art class", and is simply fabulous. IMO it is surpassed is this regard only by "Art School Confidential".
Ooh I am so glad my high school art teachers aren't like this ahahaha
You've never met my high school art teacher, fits her to a tee. Even the room looks the same.
NoireFox Same.
Illeana Douglas rules!
I heard it as "mirror, mother, mirror" - what does Freud have to say about this
Are you sure they no longer teach technique? I wouldn't know. I'm finishing RISD where both technique and concept is stressed to a high degree. There is no art theory at all. It feels very alienating to leave campus and go to any NYC art gallery -- I can't relate with anyone and I end up having very critical arguments with people who think others are impressed by their ArtHis101. I hope things are changing... call me an elitist but there have to be stricter standards.
2:43 hahahahahaha
I don't know. I don't know that I agree with the joke. I actually like the idea of a cup symbolizing womanhood. The sword and the chalice are often used to symbolize male and female in the Dark/Middle Ages. The whole DaVinci Code idea that Christ's wife was the Holly Grail is hokey but intriguing. I kind of like it. And the art of schmoozing a professor or anyone of influence is the greatest art of all. Diplomacy. Being surly- not so much an art.
SNOTFACE!! Who's up for snot flicking?!
"I thought maybe this was supposed to be your father."
............LMAOOOO
Lol!!!!!
The actress that played the teacher absolutely nailed her role as an art teacher. I was mid-art degree when I got fed up with people that put more value on pretentious art than talent.
Illeana Douglas rules.
@@zeltzamer4010 she deserved a golden globe. Fortunately her character actually appreciated and understood Enid the most, but unfortunately that was ruined by a Karen who missed the point of Enid's "racist" art exhibition.
My favorite character in Ghost World is the pretentious art teacher. "There's zero audience for my crappy self-indulgent art, so I'll become a teacher and impose it on a bunch of kids!" Everyone knows a person like this, it spans every subject. See also: the English teacher who imposes their "how you SHOULD see it" views on classic novels
Why did you quote a non existent Quote? That does not male sense!
Reminds me of my first art class. It was with this woman who was super pretentious bc she studied under some famous artist. She hated me because all I wanted to do was draw Pikachu in her class. I was like ten.
:D :D :D
Mirror Pikachu Mirror
I love the part where Enid looks around the room. The confused/annoyed look on her face is hilarious.
it makes me sad and depressed to see that ... i think it plays a big part on why the movie plays out how it plays out
😂😂
That fucking pony drawing slays me! Every art class I've ever taken had a student who'd turn in such a drawing. Aprilia if you're reading this, keep externalizing the internal!! XDDD
Even as a studio art major i find this totally funny and accurate. Not all art classes and professors are like this though, but there are some just like this. I really hate how some students are allowed to take some half-assed creation and dub it "art" with some bullshit meaning. Students like Enid who can actually draw and draw whatever they want for no reason are awesome.
Phillip might be my favourite minor character in any movie ever
In my 11th grade we were all doing ceramics at one point during art class. I had the spontaneous idea to make a devil head from the shoulders up. My devil head was slightly tipped back as if he was looking up to Heaven and God. I still vividly recall my young and fairly attractive female art teacher being a little taken aback by what I was creating. She gave me a strange look and didn't say much. When it was completely fire kiln finished and graded she only gave me a C. She said it had horns but was missing its ears. I told her the devil did not want to hear the truth hence no ears. Still I only received a C grade on it.
Lol, I detested my 'Art class' - had Enid's 'this is who I am' attitude, and wanted to stick with my abstract and impressionism. My teacher slapped me with Ds regularly, but looking back, to me the D stands for: Didn't conform to the Margarets. So now I wear it with pride.
I will participate in an art contest where judges are rather "conceptual", last year they gave the first prize to a cardboard box with a real dead cat inside. I plan to troll handing the cup with the tampon, wish me luck.
omg how did it go
I won the 3rd place. I was like wtf is wrong this people, then I received a $250 check and it was easy to assimilate :P So I guess it went pretty well.
Dying at this
Did you give them the same explanation behind it?
@@prukogibm2640 god the world needs ppl like you xd
Sometimes art can be as complex as the sketch of a man bludgeoning a person in the head with a blunt object, or as simple as a tampon in a teacup. Deep.
The Maya Deren wannabe art teacher is not only one of my favorite characters in this film, she's one of my favorite satirical characters in the history of film.
Ohh, I thought maybe this was supposed to be your father. (kills me every time)
This clip from the EXCELLENT 'Ghost World' movie shows the typical attitude of Art School/College teachers toward comic book art - this film was based on a comic book about a girl in a dead-end town - she draws cartoons for a hobby and here the art teacher belittles its worth - an experience shared by myself and many other artists who like to draw comics
Craft has always been the poorer relation of fine art since the beginnings of modernism. Conceptual art has cast a long shadow over art schools, in fact many leading art schools no longer teach technique. The art school I went to was very big on theory and low on skill training, they left it up to the students to decide what they wanted to do. It very much reflects Arts institutional leanings (which is defined by the market).
I don't see that as a bad thing. Conceptual art gets appreciated in universities and closed circles, and 'omg so beautiful' art gets popular on instagram or whatever.
@@mayafey401 well the bad thing here is that nobody can draw anymore. they learn that shitting in a bin and projecting some meaning onto it is what art is
art used to be about depicting meaningful stuff and the beauty of life. no explanation needed. people all over the world come to see it.
it required skill and the ability to track the beauty of a at first glance simple situation.
now you can just throw a dead cat into a box and win first price in a contest ... wow
and this somehow outshines the girl that refined her skills with oil colors for 15 years nonstop and decided to depict her cat that has grown old and tired and stunning colors that underline the sadness and the beauty of life and death at the same time ...
you get it now ?
@@mayafey401 webneel.com/daily/sites/default/files/images/project/beautiful-oil-painting-by-andrei-belichenko%20(2).jpg
look at this, someone drew that with their hands and oilcolors
mymodernmet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/oil-painting-underwater-paintings-isabel-emrich-11.jpg
and now that boy that threw a dead cat in a box comes along and gets a better markk than you, gets the attention and gets the money
thats fucked up!
And BTW, this movie was addressing Clowes' experiences at Pratt in the late 70's, when conceptual/performance art was the trend -- if you currently have professors like this in COLLEGE, then you probably go to a shitty art school (or university) and are not getting a good education. Which means, your portfolio must not have been good to begin with.
Worst art teacher, great depiction of many art teachers, calling subjective objective
I still don't see why comic book art is not classified as fine art. It is not always used to portray anti-intellectuallism and entertainment.
And why the hell does the teacup girl get a high grade for the coathanger sculpture?Sally Brown (Peanut's Comics) did the same thing and was graded an F.
Marice lichtenstein is a form of fine art based on comics. But I get what you mean
This teacher makes me genuinely angry. As a budding graphic designer, I understand that minimalism, when done well, can still look great, conveying a message without necessarily having to go into elaborate detail. However, when you have minor, obscure thing that you call a "piece" which has absolutely no discernible meaning that can be deduced, yet you ascribe some way-out-of-left-field story to it, I find it just pretentious.
That was beautiful man
There aren't many of us on here these days, either watching this or reading the comments. I just wanted to say hello and yes, I really like this film.
i love the movie aswell!
im here cause i wanted to look up enids drawings in her book, spec. the triangles with the eye, cause i wanted to copy it.
i dreamed about it last night :d
first time i watched the movie i saw it a couple of times in a row without a break really
ANYTHING that a child or teenager draws should be encouraged, even if it's not fashionable or sophisticated or well drawn or well shaded enough or highbrow enough
Measured equally to the edgelord fanart after all that personal work - relatable.
This shit so what happens in art
The teacher is like a female Jeff Goldblum.
Notice the teacup girl says she feels strongly about Roe v Wade , but never actually tells us which side of the issue she favors.
she doesn't have to. It's an art class. If you're pro-life you're persona non grata.
My teacher in high school was like that. Now I go to an art university in Japan so I get it on the opposite side of the spectrum. Its interesting hahaha.
2:02: Would a picture of St. Michael slaying Satan symbolizing the triumph of good over evil count?
What I like about Ghost World is that you can relate to some of the subjects it has. The art class scenes in particular, stand out to me the most.
Also what Roberta says at 2:41... ouch.
If she shows that short film, Mirror Father Mirror, to people that she is meeting for the first time because she thinks it says so much about who she is or "what it is like to inhabit my specific skin" then she must have had a pretty horrifying childhood and undergone a great deal of therapy.
agreed, i think tho that she probably skipped the therapy for no good reason
'I think it says so much about who I am' it says everything about who you are
Its been ages since graphic art has been belittled. Neil Gaiman's Sandman and Buckingham's Fables have won some rather prestigious awards. I have never really been into comics myself, but I know enough to know people respect it from a literature standpoint. This would be valid around fifty years ago. Yeah, if you have an art teacher that is holding on to a fifty year old view point, you might want to transfer.
HA I can relate to the senseless videos 100%. I slept on those types of videos.
This art teacher needs her own movie spin off lol
Don’t miss the credits at the end of her video art project
This is what Lizzie became when her mother put Drop Dead Fred back in the Jack-In-The-Box; a brown-noser who puts tampons in teacups to please her pretentious teacher. :P
I want a go that Mutilator game, it looks ace.
I always thought that short film was stupid 😂
Hahahahaha!!!!! I love her
Everyone who has been in an art class can relate to this. Damn, I feel like a hipster LOL
Quirky teacher.
LOL i love ghost world. the best parts of these scenes are when enid and margaret shoot each other dirty looks after the teacher praises margaret's pieces.
No, that's a fallacy. Usually people who have this opinion have limited experience with horrible art instructors or they lack the humility and maturity to accept valid critique of the art they are creating. I've had some wonderful art teachers who were simultaneously engaged in creating amazing art of their own. These are also the sort of teachers who respectfully gave students the freedom to pursue their own vision & method rather than attempting to enforce a particular style or perspective.
there is no better way for this video to have ended ahahahahaha
la tensión de la clase, y el emputamiento de Enid, y al final el chascarrillo sobre Philip jajajaja.
How did Margaret end up in this summer class for rejects and failures? Seems like she'd do well in a 2001 high school.
Not everybody that does summer school classes is there because they failed. Margaret was probably a year down from Enid and working ahead to get credits. After my freshman year in high school I had to make up a Science class and there were kids that hadn’t even started high school taking the class,
There has to be a balance of both strong craft *and* strong concept. When everybody is a strong craftsman/illustrator, an intelligent concept sets you apart. Why aim for less? Chris Ware and Clowes are a prime example of this.
This is incredibly accurate and hilarious lol.
"the Mutilator!"
I just like Don Knotts too.
Ahh yes, Alexander Fors, the dude in the burgundy sweater with blonde hair, he's my italian teacher lol
I had a similar experience at art school. There were a few technique-heavy classes but for the most part it was very open and floaty and theoretical and it wasn't very stimulating for people who came to learn how to do things. And I agree with RubiconXing that "strong craft and strong concept" are important.
for me here in germany art class was always like, "here take a brush and some colors and draw something. ill grade you afterwards"
we never got teached anything and we never even discussed stuff theoretically.
there just were the occasional historical information - like "this is impressionism and these are names of artists related to that" "now do that too please"
wow! "work that is more serious" INSULT!
hahahahha a tampon in a cup
wow, that girl and her teacup, I don't think I've ever wanted to knock someone out so badly
2:23 - I love the Mutilator!
I love Illeana Douglas. This character reminds me a bit of another one of hers from Six Feet Under. Just hilarious!
who plays the art teacher? i LOVE her portrayal, hilarious....
Ileana Douglas. She's been in tons of things, going back decades. You can find clips here on RUclips, and on Twitter, as well. She's a wonderful actress, and a lovely lady.
She's good in To Die For (1995 Nicole Kidman film)
At the same time, should we accept everything as art?
The teacher’s a looney-tune.😆😆
that piece is entitled..."nearer, farther, nearer"...
Mirror
I study drawing, a lot of the discipline and the practical side of it and obviously the independence of study and I really like it.
Because no one has the pretention of slapping stuff together and bullshitting.
plus I just fucking love cartoons.
holy shit this stuff is gold hahaha