I remember driving all the way to Baltimore in one night because I was bored and made it back on time for work on Monday. Told my NCOIC about it and he asked me if I got in trouble or did anything illegal. I told him no and he said, "as long as I don't get a call from jail, it's all good."
One of my soldiers called me for a ride because he was outside of the radius and couldn't get a ride from the airport. In his defense, he called all of his barracks buddies, and I was that last line before an article 15 for missing formation. I got him and his bags in my car and he started with the story. I go "Don't talk to me. This is a freebie. I hope you learned your lesson. Your barracks friends don't give a fuck about you. They will fuck you over for five minutes of sleep. I'm your first call. I'll fix a fuck-up if you don't do it often. If you keep doing it, that's when we have a fucking problem".
@@doc_suicide4326 Good leader right here. Type of guy that soldiers will do their best for and respect the hell out of. Help them out, but they need to know to not do this type of stuff on the regular and be a fuck-up. #Leadership
Really, what it really boils down to is: 1. Who in your chain of command likes/hates you. If the 1SG or Company Commander hate you, they can ding you with every reg under the sun and drive you out of the service. Likewise, if they think you're awesome, you can get away with a lot before you risk losing rank or getting ejected from the service. Helping or hurting you are intermediate NCOs, officers and peers. 2. What value you offer the unit. If you are the dependable "go to" guy (NCO maturity but not an NCO) or have a specific skill set the unit can't do without, you can get away with a lot of crap. If you're the constant undependable, trouble causing screw up it's easier to drum you out and roll the dice on your replacement. Common Mistakes: Underestimating how petty the Chain of Command can be over some offense (even if you were in their good graces before). Alternately, trying too hard to get into command's good graces (nobody likes a cheese eater a.k.a. sycophant). Overestimating your value to the command due to your skills compared to your insults to that chain of command or your offenses. You might be functioning 5 pay grades above your current rank down range. But you come back to CONUS and you're not as useful and therefore disposable. Especially if the chain of command switched out after you get back. Obviously, some offenses prove so huge, horrible, or publicly embarrassing even a certified war hero can't dodge the consequences. Example: SPC John Stebbins of Blackhawk Down fame, winner of the Silver Star, currently doing 30 years in jail for kiddie diddling. Your best bet is to be dependable, work hard, remember your place in the grand scheme of things, keep bitching to a minimum, be truthful without arrogance, and strive to get the rep as a "mission first" type of soldier. Pretend that you have a number of "get out of jail free" cards but _you don't know that number_ so you try hard AF not to get where you must use one. Sadly, to a great degree it still boils down to luck. You will see men and women like this get hosed while lesser humans get elevated. But that's life outside the military too.
I went above and beyond any standard that was written or oral. EIB/Air Assault, 2 year Airborne. Then I met a jealous CSM that had an E7 punch me and I got the Article 15. I had no home to go to so I had to be perfect (13 yrs) in and a total malfunction
The first one is called a 'whether' pass. I'm going to Brownville Texas and into Mexico for my 21st birthday with 2 of my friends, whether I have a pass or not.
I remember during a break for my unit, we went to Bahrain, I was given the order not to allow my men under 21 to drink, since we were allowed beer in Bahrain. I told my first sergeant that any soldier in my company that was in combat was allowed to drink a beer. I had several soldiers between 17 and 20 years of age. One supervised beer was ok with me even though the order said otherwise.
We drank at the E Club and we were under 21. We were literally getting pulled out of AIT early to go over to Iraq. Like you said, we could die for our country but not drink with her ? HELL NO !
While at Ft. Stewart I flew home the weekend before deploying to Iraq. Flying back Sunday night, the pilot comes over the speaker and says due to fog we couldn't land in Savannah and were being diverted to Charleston, SC. I'm at the Charleston airport late night/early morning trying to find a taxi driver willing to drive me 2.5 hours to Stewart. I got back 30 minutes before PT formation.
@@bamacopeland4372 If i remember correctly it was like $360 total, but luckily another guy who was stationed at Hunter AAF did the same thing I did so we split it $180 each.
Let’s see… the “no smoking in the barracks, no drinking in the barracks, no females in the barracks overnight, no parties in the barracks, no firearms in the barracks” I think I witnessed all of those being violated at one time or another during my time in.
I've heard that years and years ago smoking was allowed in the barracks. Too bad it isn't today. I've been to one barracks where I saw an outright rule saying no drinking , but most barracks I've been to did not have a rule against drinking but did have a rule for how much alcohol you're allowed to have
@@golfery5119 back in my day in the early 00’s before and during Iraq campaign, you could have alcohol in the barracks, but smoking in the rooms was strictly forbidden, that doesn’t mean some guys didn’t do it anyway. But at some point we had a SGM that got tired of being woken up early because of alcohol related incidents, and then our BN SGM made it against the rules to drink in the barracks and he would recommend field grade article 15’s for anyone caught doing it because it was a direct order from him and the BN CO themselves. Guys still did it… and some guys got put out of the military because of it too. I also recall my own chain of command lecturing us about policing up the cigarette butts sitting on the ground around the barracks too, and that was almost on a daily basis. We actually had a company 1SG who was also a smoker who had us all outside at 4 am to teach the rest of the smokers how to properly field strip their smokes and put the butts in your pocket to throw in the trash because there were a bunch of jackasses who would literally just leave their cigarette butts on the grass outside the barracks for the SGM to see when he walked through every week.
Had a roomate buy a pistol at the local gun show. He was playing with it and shot out the tv in the barracks. That guy got a company grade for that one.
Unauthorized absence/failing to attend a formation; refusing an order from a NCO or officer: not wearing the prescribed uniform. If you want to get petty with someone, walking thru a restricted area (e.g. commander’s grass). The other three you mentioned are also popular.
I went marine corps security forces, primary mos of 0311. Couple of my buddies got presidential guard assignment and also went to security forces in Chesapeake Virginia with me. One of em got busted on a liberty weekend drinking underage. Not only did he lose his president guard assignment, he got sent to Diego Garcia for a year lol. Then back to the fleet. Did his 4 for the corps and got out. Felt bad for him.
Most solider breaks these rules but as you said, it’s key to be reasonable and use common sense. I used to hang out with my E5 but that was off duty and during duty hours we kept it professional.
@@KaiHouston-m6j The drinking age went up to 21 everywhere in 1984. It is still on the states actually, but the reason it is 21 everywhere is that the feds told the states that otherwise they would not help with or may have been help less with money to maintain the roads if they did not raise the age to 21 and sense the states either could not or did not want to make up that difference they raised the age. However, if the citizens of a particular state decided that they would be OK with an increase in taxes in exchange for a lower drinking age and they could get the lawmakers to go along with it then really the drinking age is still a state issue in that respect.
As an MP if I got called to a barracks for an out of control party (I was the patrol supervisor) I would collect two or three patrol vehicles and go to the barracks in question and go in, then I would call for the highest ranking individuals and tell them if they shut it down then it was done and won, this usually ended the problem, if not I would then call in additional patrols and take the highest ranking into apprehension and tell the rest that they're next, if the units OOD (Officer On Duty) was present this might not happen and then everyone got in trouble, it basically depended on the unit in question, most Infantry units were easy to control, it was the Armored units that almost always gave us a problem.
I was in the Air Force. I'm unaware of any mileage restriction. People could go pretty much anywhere they want so long as they can get back in time for their next duty shift. I did some security work at an Army post after I get out of the Air Force, and ya, underage drinking was an issue. Was their underage drinking when I was in the Air Force, sure, but they didn't jump in their car. The people at the Army Post, yes, they'd go driving, that's how we knew about it. One Marine got himself recycled back to day one boot camp. It was a training base. What the Air Force called training command. What a lot of people don't know is that when you are in training you can be transferred to any training base. As for fraternization in the Air Force, people kind of turned a blind eye to it unless it caused issues.
Don't know if that rule is still around, but using an umbrella while in uniform was a big NO NO, you risked being called Air Force, who at the time were allowed to use an umbrella while in uniform.
"Back in my day..." these rules existed but they were really only an issue if you did something to draw attention to yourself. Having a few beers and listening to music in the barracks wasn't going to get on anyone's radar, even if your leadership knew about it. Getting drunk and having a shouting match with with your neighbor was going to be a problem. As an NCO, on these minor issues, I kinda took the attitude that if you don't make it an issue for me, I won't make it an issue for you.
Hi Christopher! Love your channel. Retired US Army guy here. The fraternization policy is a tough one for sure. But, like you....I kept my friends. Was never a really big deal. I knew a married couple where the husband was an E-6 and the wife was a 1LT. They were married when they were both E-5s. She went to OCS. She had to constantly explain how she could be married to an E-6.
I retired after 20 years and I always took a pass to go past the 250 I never drank under age (of course I was 20 in '88 and you could drink underage on post legally in those days, and I never fraternized (88 to 91 then 08 to 24 second time in the Army) so not every one breaks those rules
I was stationed at jblm flew back home to pick up my son flew back to SeaTac in the same day. I was panicked the whole day lol but made it back with no issues or problems.
After getting home from Iraq we had a lot of 4 day weekends so I would go home on Friday night , fly from Nashville to CT come home Sunday night and be at work for Monday morning
We had a map in the day room and if you went outside the ring, it was at least an article 13, or maybe even a general courtmarshall. Of course we went outside the ring every day off.
Every 4 day holiday I had I drove from Ft. Carson CO to Michigan. I had it down to a science. Luckily I always made it back to base before Monday morning PT.
Back in 82 stationed at Ft Monmouth NJ I dated a girl that was in AIT (Chaplain assistant school.We had a ball and nobody said anything about it!! She was fun too! Lol!!
I was stationed in West Germany in 1987/1988 and no one said a word about under age drinking (I was 19/20). There was no mention about a distance limit, though West Germany wasn't that big. You couldn't leave the country without a pass or being on leave though.
The fraternization rules do tend to get a little silly especially for E5's. At the end of the week most the E5s wanted nothing to do with lower enlisted especially after Gunnery or Field Problem. Generally speaking if I was hanging out with an NCO on my off duty hours it was because we had a common off duty interest like sports.
I spent most of my time in Germany. I was always going places but I was always just about two hours away, I did once in a while I went pretty far. When I joined the Army in 1980, we could drink on Post at 17, and I was 17 when I joined. My first on Post pass in Basic. I went to the EM Club and ordered a beer. It changed in 1984, when they made whatever the local state law was. In Germany you could go into a bar and not get carded. I usually didn’t hang out with higher ranks. But we hung out with higher ranks as long as rank was respected. Especially when I was assigned to Division HQ.
Fraternization was the most common rule broken I saw. I was in 1980-1983. I had several friends I hung out with who were e-5 and e-6, even though I was an e-4, or below. I had an e-6 friend get busted to e-5 because he bed a young e-3. Also, several DUI's, that was common. Since I was stationed in Germany, I never saw anyone get busted for under age drinking. I mean, we were in GERMANY! Anyone can go out an drink beer, lol.
No one told me about the 250 mile rule. Had a GF who was going to Auburn university. We decided to go to Miami for the weekend. I had 3 days off. Got the phone call the minute I got to Miami. Command told me. I had a ID Card and Dog tag check in. Had to haul ass back to Benning. Top was waiting for me in my room. Was told I was getting a Company article 15. My squad leader stuck up for me and told Top I was never told. Top did not care. Made a deal with Top to cut grass for 3 weeks after work. Every new soldier who came to the unit signed a form with the 250 mile leave rule.
I broke the franternized with female officers ( 1st Lts & 2nd Lts ) when i was an E-4,did it regularly too.Then I had intimate relations with my female platoon sgt while in Korea,I was an E-5 and she was an E-7.
When it comes to 'hanging out with' fraternization, it kinda goes out the window when you're overseas. Most leadership would want ncos to go with the Joe's if they went off base for crisis management among other things. The other kind of fraternization I violated it twice, I banged two of my lower enlisted females as a E5. Some others but they were in different units.
Stupid rule: allowing 21 year olds to be responsible for Soldiers and NCOs just bc they have a college degree I’m saying this as a 2LT. I wish I had been required to serve as an enlisted Soldier before commissioning
In certain places you’re not supposed to have more than a 12pk of beer or anything more than a 5th of alcohol in your barracks room. Don’t know anyone who followed it or even knew it was a rule
Read where Jake McNiece went to during WW2 in “The Filthy Thirteen”. So was I wrong talking to the base commander about the base Sargent Major kicking my grill over near the barracks. The reason was he didn’t think even a foldout camping grill should be be near the barracks. The following Monday apparently he had a closed door meeting with the general. We went back to cooking steaks near the barracks.its Twentynine Palms CA, no grass or trees and the mortar and brick are not going to catch fire
So you basically said everything depends on your leadership. Wrong. For instance, Fraternization. Covered by Article 134 of the UCMJ. For the Army specifically, it's also covered by AR 600-20. Short version: It may be allowed between enlisted members provided there isn't a supervisory relationship. Between enlisted ranks, it IS NOT FRATERNIZATION; rather, "IMPROPER SUPERIOR - SUBORDINATE RELATIONSHIPS." It may be permitted in the same unit (at the Commander's discretion); however, the commander may impose certain restrictions and have the commander's approval. If in different units, it's usually not a problem. Even if an E-3 is involved with an E-7. You typically don't see this large gap, but it happens. Think about the number of people in the military who are married to each other. They don't make you get a divorce because you were promoted to E-7 while married to an E-4. Good grief. For enlisted ranks, the big standard is if there is an adverse impact on discipline or mission. FRATERNIZATION occurs between enlisted and officers. The officer, in addition to facing Article 134 charges, can also find themselves charged with Article 92. This DOES NOT apply to casual relationships. You can, as an enlisted member, have friends who are officers. Do normal things, like a cookout, the same off-base sports team, etc. However, you cannot date, have a business relationship, or share accommodations. Maybe do a little bit of research on a topic, even if you think you know it, or you believe it to be so. Maybe even provide references (There's an idea.) Just to ensure your credibility doesn't take a hit.
the ones I would say people break the most is hoarding food I completely understand the purpose of no food in the barracks you know brings bugs rats and who knows what else and falling asleep on firewatch or gate duty off the top of my head those were probably the two minor infractions that people got smoked for the most people getting in trouble for hazing was also up there 🇺🇸
I don't think this was common, but my father was in the Korean Conflict and was cavorting with some Korean women and came home and exposed my mother to Chlamydia, which caused her to get Shingles later in life after he had died. (It is not just Chicken Pox)
I remember when i was in the Navy as a Corpsman (medic). I knew all of the Master-at-Arms (MPs). We all met on call that involved an ambulance. I also drew evidence blood for DWI on base. Anyway, one night, I was invited to a friendly poker game. You know, you're not "technically" gambling because no money was at the table. Someone took offensive and called the quarter deck on us (Navy's duty hut). Everyone at the table was MAA, and me. A few pagers went off , and then the MAA on duty showed up. No money = no gambling Naw, we're playing just for fun. It's funny how the base police taught me how to not "technically " gamble. Of course, nothing happened to any of us. Except I not "technically" lost $20.
Well, there definitely is a lot of nuance to these three topics, especially in the Guard and Reserve. I’m Reserve by the way, so I can attest. Like #1 definitely does not apply to Guard and Reserve unless they are on active duty status. Otherwise, we have a lot of people come from coast to coast for drill weekend, simply because they enjoy the unit and the atmosphere it brings. In fact, these far traveling reservists even get reimbursed for their travel just to come to drill. #2, I can see that. Because you’d get busted the same way, whether military or civilian. #3. Ok, after Sunday night 11:59pm / 2359 hrs, that uniform comes off for a month and you are no longer Private/Sergeant/Lieutenant/Petty Officer/Chief/Captain or whatever rank so and so, depending on branch of service. You are simply John, Mark, Paul, Dave, Steve, Kevin, Scott, etc, if a man. Or, Stacy, Kim, Karen, Becky, Margaret, Jane, Sally, etc if a woman. That is the case until you meet the following month. While there is still some level of professional decency that must upheld during that month in between, it’s a whole lot different than the regular military. In some instances, someone who is your superior at drill may very well be your subordinate at your civilian job or vice versa. Or, maybe you both own and operate a business together as civilians. In that case, the Army Reserve or National Guard doesn’t have any control over that. Again, you are John/Jane Doe, not Sergeant, Captain or whoever.
Is the drinking age for US military go by the US drinking age or the drinking age of where you are stationed? For instance in Germany the drinking beer and wine is 16 but for liquor it is 18. So, if you are only 18, but stationed in Germany, would you be allowed to drink alcohol?
Goes by were you are. So if you are stationed in Germany then yes you can drink off post but I believe I've heard they treat on post like they do in the US and you have to be 21 to buy alcohol on post.
Pretty much. I think memory is a bit fuzzy here because when I joined in 2006, it wasn't uncommon to see E4 and E5s married. The restrictions were that they couldn't be in the same chain of command or authority. So like you couldn't be friends or date your supervisor. But this would apply even if you were the same rank. They even heavily discouraged dating within same sections regardless of rank for that reason. But I used to play D&D and go Bowling and other things with my NCOs. We got around the fraternization rule by calling them team building exercises, and in reality the command just didn't care as long as no issues arised. What the rule is trying to curb is people having rank over someone and then using that rank to abuse in a relationship, or using the relationship as a reason to give favorable treatment. That's when fraternization is actually violated.
Why the hell would anybody want to keep any of that crap and then pay a fine (that's what a "statement of charges" is to anyone reading this who doesnt know about the Army and military) for it, and then Knowing theyre going to overcharge you for it? Screw that.
I never broke the miles radius or the drinking (when I was in, 18 was legal). However, My first wife and I married while we were both E-5s. Later, through OCS program, she was commissioned as a 2LT. I think that was one of the reasons for our divorce (that, along that I was a bit of a shithead back then). She went career (retired as a Full Bird) whereas I got out when my re-up was up and went into public service.
My cousin's son is going to be graduating from college and commissioning as a 2nd LT in the Army in the spring. He's planning on going infantry and probably will be at Benning/Moore for training. There's a family member (it's his 2nd cousin) who is in enlisted in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Not that he might want to hang out with some newbie 2nd LT, would they get in trouble if they did hang out? My brother is a LT Colonel in the Air Force and it's never really that big of a deal with the Air Force, but the Army seems to enforce fraternization more.
I have zero experience with the Military and I’d like to know the rationale on why you shouldn’t be friends with others who aren’t your same rank? I can only assume that the mentorship could only be beneficial to one’s career but again, I don’t have any exposure to Military life. This is it basically. Thanks!
It's most important if it's someone in your chain of command, then you wouldn't want an officer/NCO giving preferential treatment to a specific soldier, and you wouldn't want the other soldiers thinking that's happening.
And now today weed in the form of THCA hemp flower is federally legal, widely available in gas stations, and indistinguishable from traditional marijuana both in its effects as well as on the piss test and they wonder why nobody’s lining up to enlist. When I was in the navy in the late ‘70s the general opinion was that 85% of the men got high and probably 50% of the junior officers as well. A neighborhood acquaintance of mine from elementary school who was a lieutenant told me that everybody he knew at Annapolis got high in the class of 1978. But then THC was added to the urinalysis program starting in the mid 1980s so any usage would have to be strictly limited to ensure that your system cleared out within just three days or so.
I feel so square when these videos get posted. Always the Johnny on the spot kind of guy. I never once broke any of these rules. By the time I guess I might have felt an inkling to do any such thing, because previous to this I was possibly naive and virgin minded into my twenties. Yeah, I said it. I'm not going to hide it now that I'm 3 times that.
Also only on active duty Could you actually do something about the underage drinking versus if you're in the Army National Guard and Army Reserve there's no way for leadership to really enforce it because you only around them when we get a month 2 weeks in the summer so for the rest of the time they can be an 18 year old National Guard Soldier or Army reserve soldier and be drinking underage
@@christopherchaos Articles 125 and 134 of the UCMJ address sexual misconduct. The joke may arise from any other position than missionary being considered indecent. But no it doesn't say exactly anywhere. It's been a joke for many decades too.
Having guests in the barracks without signing them in at the CQ desk.
I remember driving all the way to Baltimore in one night because I was bored and made it back on time for work on Monday. Told my NCOIC about it and he asked me if I got in trouble or did anything illegal. I told him no and he said, "as long as I don't get a call from jail, it's all good."
One of my soldiers called me for a ride because he was outside of the radius and couldn't get a ride from the airport. In his defense, he called all of his barracks buddies, and I was that last line before an article 15 for missing formation. I got him and his bags in my car and he started with the story. I go "Don't talk to me. This is a freebie. I hope you learned your lesson. Your barracks friends don't give a fuck about you. They will fuck you over for five minutes of sleep. I'm your first call. I'll fix a fuck-up if you don't do it often. If you keep doing it, that's when we have a fucking problem".
@@doc_suicide4326 Good leader right here. Type of guy that soldiers will do their best for and respect the hell out of. Help them out, but they need to know to not do this type of stuff on the regular and be a fuck-up. #Leadership
All the way to Baltimore? So you were at fort Meade Maryland?
@@golfery5119 no, Fort Bragg or Fort Liberty
@@Sewwfffyhjijui-n1e wow.
Missing and/or being late to formation. We had plenty of repeat offenders on that one.
Really, what it really boils down to is:
1. Who in your chain of command likes/hates you. If the 1SG or Company Commander hate you, they can ding you with every reg under the sun and drive you out of the service. Likewise, if they think you're awesome, you can get away with a lot before you risk losing rank or getting ejected from the service. Helping or hurting you are intermediate NCOs, officers and peers.
2. What value you offer the unit. If you are the dependable "go to" guy (NCO maturity but not an NCO) or have a specific skill set the unit can't do without, you can get away with a lot of crap. If you're the constant undependable, trouble causing screw up it's easier to drum you out and roll the dice on your replacement.
Common Mistakes: Underestimating how petty the Chain of Command can be over some offense (even if you were in their good graces before). Alternately, trying too hard to get into command's good graces (nobody likes a cheese eater a.k.a. sycophant). Overestimating your value to the command due to your skills compared to your insults to that chain of command or your offenses. You might be functioning 5 pay grades above your current rank down range. But you come back to CONUS and you're not as useful and therefore disposable. Especially if the chain of command switched out after you get back. Obviously, some offenses prove so huge, horrible, or publicly embarrassing even a certified war hero can't dodge the consequences. Example: SPC John Stebbins of Blackhawk Down fame, winner of the Silver Star, currently doing 30 years in jail for kiddie diddling.
Your best bet is to be dependable, work hard, remember your place in the grand scheme of things, keep bitching to a minimum, be truthful without arrogance, and strive to get the rep as a "mission first" type of soldier. Pretend that you have a number of "get out of jail free" cards but _you don't know that number_ so you try hard AF not to get where you must use one. Sadly, to a great degree it still boils down to luck. You will see men and women like this get hosed while lesser humans get elevated. But that's life outside the military too.
I went above and beyond any standard that was written or oral. EIB/Air Assault, 2 year Airborne. Then I met a jealous CSM that had an E7 punch me and I got the Article 15. I had no home to go to so I had to be perfect (13 yrs) in and a total malfunction
The first one is called a 'whether' pass. I'm going to Brownville Texas and into Mexico for my 21st birthday with 2 of my friends, whether I have a pass or not.
I remember during a break for my unit, we went to Bahrain, I was given the order not to allow my men under 21 to drink, since we were allowed beer in Bahrain. I told my first sergeant that any soldier in my company that was in combat was allowed to drink a beer. I had several soldiers between 17 and 20 years of age. One supervised beer was ok with me even though the order said otherwise.
We drank at the E Club and we were under 21. We were literally getting pulled out of AIT early to go over to Iraq. Like you said, we could die for our country but not drink with her ? HELL NO !
There was no minimum drinking age when I was in the army. Should still be that way.
I will give you one all of us violated and nobody gave a shit, article 117 use of foul fuckin language.
You just received a Article 15!
While at Ft. Stewart I flew home the weekend before deploying to Iraq. Flying back Sunday night, the pilot comes over the speaker and says due to fog we couldn't land in Savannah and were being diverted to Charleston, SC. I'm at the Charleston airport late night/early morning trying to find a taxi driver willing to drive me 2.5 hours to Stewart. I got back 30 minutes before PT formation.
How much did that cost
@@bamacopeland4372 If i remember correctly it was like $360 total, but luckily another guy who was stationed at Hunter AAF did the same thing I did so we split it $180 each.
@@rolands4682 Not that bad.
Let’s see… the “no smoking in the barracks, no drinking in the barracks, no females in the barracks overnight, no parties in the barracks, no firearms in the barracks” I think I witnessed all of those being violated at one time or another during my time in.
I've heard that years and years ago smoking was allowed in the barracks. Too bad it isn't today.
I've been to one barracks where I saw an outright rule saying no drinking , but most barracks I've been to did not have a rule against drinking but did have a rule for how much alcohol you're allowed to have
@@golfery5119 back in my day in the early 00’s before and during Iraq campaign, you could have alcohol in the barracks, but smoking in the rooms was strictly forbidden, that doesn’t mean some guys didn’t do it anyway. But at some point we had a SGM that got tired of being woken up early because of alcohol related incidents, and then our BN SGM made it against the rules to drink in the barracks and he would recommend field grade article 15’s for anyone caught doing it because it was a direct order from him and the BN CO themselves. Guys still did it… and some guys got put out of the military because of it too. I also recall my own chain of command lecturing us about policing up the cigarette butts sitting on the ground around the barracks too, and that was almost on a daily basis. We actually had a company 1SG who was also a smoker who had us all outside at 4 am to teach the rest of the smokers how to properly field strip their smokes and put the butts in your pocket to throw in the trash because there were a bunch of jackasses who would literally just leave their cigarette butts on the grass outside the barracks for the SGM to see when he walked through every week.
Had a roomate buy a pistol at the local gun show. He was playing with it and shot out the tv in the barracks. That guy got a company grade for that one.
In my barracks room at Ft Gordon said No Smoking in bed. So we stood next to an open window.
Unauthorized absence/failing to attend a formation; refusing an order from a NCO or officer: not wearing the prescribed uniform. If you want to get petty with someone, walking thru a restricted area (e.g. commander’s grass). The other three you mentioned are also popular.
being part of a mess sec in alaska in the field in a f.a. unit 80's was no joke!!!! we were told to" deal with it"!!!!
I went marine corps security forces, primary mos of 0311. Couple of my buddies got presidential guard assignment and also went to security forces in Chesapeake Virginia with me. One of em got busted on a liberty weekend drinking underage. Not only did he lose his president guard assignment, he got sent to Diego Garcia for a year lol. Then back to the fleet. Did his 4 for the corps and got out. Felt bad for him.
Most solider breaks these rules but as you said, it’s key to be reasonable and use common sense. I used to hang out with my E5 but that was off duty and during duty hours we kept it professional.
Sleeping on CQ/Staff Duty
Broke that one quite a few times.
All the time lol. We would switch in and out one sleep the other up
Broke that more than once
the "not allowed to have a beer for your country" lmao
Yeah, I am old. The drinking age was what the State you are stationed in. Off Post. On post it was 18+ When did this change.
@@KaiHouston-m6j The drinking age went up to 21 everywhere in 1984. It is still on the states actually, but the reason it is 21 everywhere is that the feds told the states that otherwise they would not help with or may have been help less with money to maintain the roads if they did not raise the age to 21 and sense the states either could not or did not want to make up that difference they raised the age. However, if the citizens of a particular state decided that they would be OK with an increase in taxes in exchange for a lower drinking age and they could get the lawmakers to go along with it then really the drinking age is still a state issue in that respect.
@@dogsareme100 Thanks, I turned 21 just as that came to pass...more or less. But nobody was checking IDs on post that I remember. :)
As an MP if I got called to a barracks for an out of control party (I was the patrol supervisor) I would collect two or three patrol vehicles and go to the barracks in question and go in, then I would call for the highest ranking individuals and tell them if they shut it down then it was done and won, this usually ended the problem, if not I would then call in additional patrols and take the highest ranking into apprehension and tell the rest that they're next, if the units OOD (Officer On Duty) was present this might not happen and then everyone got in trouble, it basically depended on the unit in question, most Infantry units were easy to control, it was the Armored units that almost always gave us a problem.
I was in the Air Force. I'm unaware of any mileage restriction. People could go pretty much anywhere they want so long as they can get back in time for their next duty shift. I did some security work at an Army post after I get out of the Air Force, and ya, underage drinking was an issue. Was their underage drinking when I was in the Air Force, sure, but they didn't jump in their car. The people at the Army Post, yes, they'd go driving, that's how we knew about it. One Marine got himself recycled back to day one boot camp. It was a training base. What the Air Force called training command. What a lot of people don't know is that when you are in training you can be transferred to any training base. As for fraternization in the Air Force, people kind of turned a blind eye to it unless it caused issues.
Air Force is not subjected to the stupidity of the army.
Don't know if that rule is still around, but using an umbrella while in uniform was a big NO NO, you risked being called Air Force, who at the time were allowed to use an umbrella while in uniform.
No sex in the barracks is a newish rule that is broken left right and center.
Men on Men is O.K. now!
Bringing live ammo back to barracks for room decorations, like 50cal rounds, extra smoke grenades I saw that all the time.
"Back in my day..." these rules existed but they were really only an issue if you did something to draw attention to yourself. Having a few beers and listening to music in the barracks wasn't going to get on anyone's radar, even if your leadership knew about it. Getting drunk and having a shouting match with with your neighbor was going to be a problem. As an NCO, on these minor issues, I kinda took the attitude that if you don't make it an issue for me, I won't make it an issue for you.
Hi Christopher! Love your channel. Retired US Army guy here. The fraternization policy is a tough one for sure. But, like you....I kept my friends. Was never a really big deal. I knew a married couple where the husband was an E-6 and the wife was a 1LT. They were married when they were both E-5s. She went to OCS. She had to constantly explain how she could be married to an E-6.
@@markneubauer2330 what…? That’s dumb.
I retired after 20 years and I always took a pass to go past the 250 I never drank under age (of course I was 20 in '88 and you could drink underage on post legally in those days, and I never fraternized (88 to 91 then 08 to 24 second time in the Army) so not every one breaks those rules
I used to drive home from ft Riley to Louisville ky if we had a 4 day weekend..never told a sole..lol
You are spot on with all of these. Nice work.
Military justice is to justice what military music is to music
Being Sancho to your Battle buddy's wife is also frowned on. You would be surprised at how many dependents turn into barracks bunnies.
I was stationed at jblm flew back home to pick up my son flew back to SeaTac in the same day. I was panicked the whole day lol but made it back with no issues or problems.
After getting home from Iraq we had a lot of 4 day weekends so I would go home on Friday night , fly from Nashville to CT come home Sunday night and be at work for Monday morning
We had a map in the day room and if you went outside the ring, it was at least an article 13, or maybe even a general courtmarshall. Of course we went outside the ring every day off.
When did the drinking age go back to 21 in the Army- I thought we fought that battle during Vietnam 😲
you can get away with a ton of stuff if you dont get caught speaking from experience
Every 4 day holiday I had I drove from Ft. Carson CO to Michigan. I had it down to a science. Luckily I always made it back to base before Monday morning PT.
I drove from Ft. Sam to Ft. Huachuca in a day...guilty
Back in 82 stationed at Ft Monmouth NJ I dated a girl that was in AIT (Chaplain assistant school.We had a ball and nobody said anything about it!! She was fun too! Lol!!
I been in the military for 13 years and all my radius was 150 miles. I wish it was 250 miles.
I was stationed in West Germany in 1987/1988 and no one said a word about under age drinking (I was 19/20).
There was no mention about a distance limit, though West Germany wasn't that big.
You couldn't leave the country without a pass or being on leave though.
I would think that an e-4 and e-5 would be different than say a fresh e-4 and an e-7
The fraternization rules do tend to get a little silly especially for E5's. At the end of the week most the E5s wanted nothing to do with lower enlisted especially after Gunnery or Field Problem. Generally speaking if I was hanging out with an NCO on my off duty hours it was because we had a common off duty interest like sports.
I also remember being a young O1 dating a young E3 in airborne school
I spent most of my time in Germany. I was always going places but I was always just about two hours away, I did once in a while I went pretty far.
When I joined the Army in 1980, we could drink on Post at 17, and I was 17 when I joined. My first on Post pass in Basic. I went to the EM Club and ordered a beer. It changed in 1984, when they made whatever the local state law was. In Germany you could go into a bar and not get carded. I usually didn’t hang out with higher ranks. But we hung out with higher ranks as long as rank was respected. Especially when I was assigned to Division HQ.
Fraternization was the most common rule broken I saw. I was in 1980-1983. I had several friends I hung out with who were e-5 and e-6, even though I was an e-4, or below. I had an e-6 friend get busted to e-5 because he bed a young e-3. Also, several DUI's, that was common. Since I was stationed in Germany, I never saw anyone get busted for under age drinking. I mean, we were in GERMANY! Anyone can go out an drink beer, lol.
No one told me about the 250 mile rule. Had a GF who was going to Auburn university. We decided to go to Miami for the weekend. I had 3 days off. Got the phone call the minute I got to Miami. Command told me. I had a ID Card and Dog tag check in. Had to haul ass back to Benning. Top was waiting for me in my room. Was told I was getting a Company article 15. My squad leader stuck up for me and told Top I was never told. Top did not care. Made a deal with Top to cut grass for 3 weeks after work. Every new soldier who came to the unit signed a form with the 250 mile leave rule.
How times change from quite a while ago. No drinking in the barracks is funny being stationed in Germany.
I broke the franternized with female officers ( 1st Lts & 2nd Lts ) when i was an E-4,did it regularly too.Then I had intimate relations with my female platoon sgt while in Korea,I was an E-5 and she was an E-7.
Are you a guy or a girl?
No rule applies to an e-4! LOL
When it comes to 'hanging out with' fraternization, it kinda goes out the window when you're overseas. Most leadership would want ncos to go with the Joe's if they went off base for crisis management among other things. The other kind of fraternization I violated it twice, I banged two of my lower enlisted females as a E5. Some others but they were in different units.
Re under-age drinking, when I was in, they had beer vending machines in the dayroom. I guess things have changed a lot.
Drinking underage only depended on who you were with and how big of a f... up you are/were. Had my 1SG, a CPT, and my NCOIC provide it.
Drove from Ft Indiantown Gap, PA to St Paul Mn on a 4 day pass.
Drinkin and fightin' for sure. Oh, and by the way them chairs and bottles do not break the way they do in the movies just a heads up.
Stupid rule: allowing 21 year olds to be responsible for Soldiers and NCOs just bc they have a college degree
I’m saying this as a 2LT. I wish I had been required to serve as an enlisted Soldier before commissioning
In certain places you’re not supposed to have more than a 12pk of beer or anything more than a 5th of alcohol in your barracks room. Don’t know anyone who followed it or even knew it was a rule
Read where Jake McNiece went to during WW2 in “The Filthy Thirteen”. So was I wrong talking to the base commander about the base Sargent Major kicking my grill over near the barracks. The reason was he didn’t think even a foldout camping grill should be be near the barracks. The following Monday apparently he had a closed door meeting with the general. We went back to cooking steaks near the barracks.its Twentynine Palms CA, no grass or trees and the mortar and brick are not going to catch fire
So you basically said everything depends on your leadership. Wrong.
For instance, Fraternization. Covered by Article 134 of the UCMJ. For the Army specifically, it's also covered by AR 600-20. Short version: It may be allowed between enlisted members provided there isn't a supervisory relationship. Between enlisted ranks, it IS NOT FRATERNIZATION; rather, "IMPROPER SUPERIOR - SUBORDINATE RELATIONSHIPS." It may be permitted in the same unit (at the Commander's discretion); however, the commander may impose certain restrictions and have the commander's approval. If in different units, it's usually not a problem. Even if an E-3 is involved with an E-7. You typically don't see this large gap, but it happens. Think about the number of people in the military who are married to each other. They don't make you get a divorce because you were promoted to E-7 while married to an E-4. Good grief. For enlisted ranks, the big standard is if there is an adverse impact on discipline or mission.
FRATERNIZATION occurs between enlisted and officers. The officer, in addition to facing Article 134 charges, can also find themselves charged with Article 92. This DOES NOT apply to casual relationships. You can, as an enlisted member, have friends who are officers. Do normal things, like a cookout, the same off-base sports team, etc. However, you cannot date, have a business relationship, or share accommodations.
Maybe do a little bit of research on a topic, even if you think you know it, or you believe it to be so. Maybe even provide references (There's an idea.) Just to ensure your credibility doesn't take a hit.
😂
Like taking your brand new Humvee ambulance to Seoraksan to go camping
the ones I would say people break the most is hoarding food I completely understand the purpose of no food in the barracks you know brings bugs rats and who knows what else and falling asleep on firewatch or gate duty off the top of my head those were probably the two minor infractions that people got smoked for the most people getting in trouble for hazing was also up there 🇺🇸
I don't think this was common, but my father was in the Korean Conflict and was cavorting with some Korean women and came home and exposed my mother to Chlamydia, which caused her to get Shingles later in life after he had died. (It is not just Chicken Pox)
I remember when i was in the Navy as a Corpsman (medic). I knew all of the Master-at-Arms (MPs). We all met on call that involved an ambulance. I also drew evidence blood for DWI on base.
Anyway, one night, I was invited to a friendly poker game. You know, you're not "technically" gambling because no money was at the table.
Someone took offensive and called the quarter deck on us (Navy's duty hut). Everyone at the table was MAA, and me. A few pagers went off , and then the MAA on duty showed up.
No money = no gambling
Naw, we're playing just for fun. It's funny how the base police taught me how to not "technically " gamble.
Of course, nothing happened to any of us. Except I not "technically" lost $20.
I'm guessing running booze up to the dmz is frowned upon too
Stationed at Ft Gordon, GA
Buddy's sister was getting married, in Chicago! 3 day pass, and we drove there and back and made it!
With underage drinking. The drinking age on base in the E-club it’s 18 on most bases buts it’s beer only
Well, there definitely is a lot of nuance to these three topics, especially in the Guard and Reserve. I’m Reserve by the way, so I can attest.
Like #1 definitely does not apply to Guard and Reserve unless they are on active duty status. Otherwise, we have a lot of people come from coast to coast for drill weekend, simply because they enjoy the unit and the atmosphere it brings. In fact, these far traveling reservists even get reimbursed for their travel just to come to drill.
#2, I can see that. Because you’d get busted the same way, whether military or civilian.
#3. Ok, after Sunday night 11:59pm / 2359 hrs, that uniform comes off for a month and you are no longer Private/Sergeant/Lieutenant/Petty Officer/Chief/Captain or whatever rank so and so, depending on branch of service. You are simply John, Mark, Paul, Dave, Steve, Kevin, Scott, etc, if a man. Or, Stacy, Kim, Karen, Becky, Margaret, Jane, Sally, etc if a woman. That is the case until you meet the following month.
While there is still some level of professional decency that must upheld during that month in between, it’s a whole lot different than the regular military. In some instances, someone who is your superior at drill may very well be your subordinate at your civilian job or vice versa. Or, maybe you both own and operate a business together as civilians. In that case, the Army Reserve or National Guard doesn’t have any control over that. Again, you are John/Jane Doe, not Sergeant, Captain or whoever.
18 19 and 20 year olds in the military should be allowed to drink
Nobody under the age of 35 should be allowed drink! [based on personal experience]
Is the drinking age for US military go by the US drinking age or the drinking age of where you are stationed? For instance in Germany the drinking beer and wine is 16 but for liquor it is 18. So, if you are only 18, but stationed in Germany, would you be allowed to drink alcohol?
Goes by were you are. So if you are stationed in Germany then yes you can drink off post but I believe I've heard they treat on post like they do in the US and you have to be 21 to buy alcohol on post.
I got stationed in Okinawa 20 to drink 21 to smoke 😂 can you imagine
When did the reg change restricting drinking to 21 and above?
Drinking at 21 wasn't started until the 30s in probation
How about taking off your ID tags? I wore mine for 19 years and 9 months without fail.
my friend (e3) and her unit was supposed to replace me during deployment but she got knocked up by her nco and now she cant deploy :(((((
Wow
Strictly speaking isn't Article 134 fraternization only between officer and enlisted?
It can also apply for NCO’s and SNCO’s particularly if they are in leadership positions.
Pretty much. I think memory is a bit fuzzy here because when I joined in 2006, it wasn't uncommon to see E4 and E5s married. The restrictions were that they couldn't be in the same chain of command or authority. So like you couldn't be friends or date your supervisor. But this would apply even if you were the same rank. They even heavily discouraged dating within same sections regardless of rank for that reason.
But I used to play D&D and go Bowling and other things with my NCOs. We got around the fraternization rule by calling them team building exercises, and in reality the command just didn't care as long as no issues arised.
What the rule is trying to curb is people having rank over someone and then using that rank to abuse in a relationship, or using the relationship as a reason to give favorable treatment. That's when fraternization is actually violated.
Had a Joe drive all the way to San Diego, from Virginia on a 4 day. I was so mind blown i couldn't say anything.
Well as poor leaders say “it is what it is.”
When I was at ft knox it was a 50 mile readius
Do you happen to know the process of going army infantry then trying out for special forces?
#4 Broken Rule...not turning everything in to CIF upon ETS. ( yes.I know about statement of charges)
Why the hell would anybody want to keep any of that crap and then pay a fine (that's what a "statement of charges" is to anyone reading this who doesnt know about the Army and military) for it, and then Knowing theyre going to overcharge you for it? Screw that.
I never broke the miles radius or the drinking (when I was in, 18 was legal). However, My first wife and I married while we were both E-5s. Later, through OCS program, she was commissioned as a 2LT. I think that was one of the reasons for our divorce (that, along that I was a bit of a shithead back then). She went career (retired as a Full Bird) whereas I got out when my re-up was up and went into public service.
My cousin's son is going to be graduating from college and commissioning as a 2nd LT in the Army in the spring. He's planning on going infantry and probably will be at Benning/Moore for training. There's a family member (it's his 2nd cousin) who is in enlisted in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Not that he might want to hang out with some newbie 2nd LT, would they get in trouble if they did hang out? My brother is a LT Colonel in the Air Force and it's never really that big of a deal with the Air Force, but the Army seems to enforce fraternization more.
If you are related to the other person they won't have an issue with it.
I lived off base without permission
I have zero experience with the Military and I’d like to know the rationale on why you shouldn’t be friends with others who aren’t your same rank? I can only assume that the mentorship could only be beneficial to one’s career but again, I don’t have any exposure to Military life. This is it basically. Thanks!
It's most important if it's someone in your chain of command, then you wouldn't want an officer/NCO giving preferential treatment to a specific soldier, and you wouldn't want the other soldiers thinking that's happening.
@@TheR00ndar Just to be clear, does this refer to a romantic relationship or just normal friends?
It undermines disaplin. Evey thing that happens will be perceived through the lens of why?
@@KaiHouston-m6j Understood! Thanks!
And now today weed in the form of THCA hemp flower is federally legal, widely available in gas stations, and indistinguishable from traditional marijuana both in its effects as well as on the piss test and they wonder why nobody’s lining up to enlist. When I was in the navy in the late ‘70s the general opinion was that 85% of the men got high and probably 50% of the junior officers as well. A neighborhood acquaintance of mine from elementary school who was a lieutenant told me that everybody he knew at Annapolis got high in the class of 1978. But then THC was added to the urinalysis program starting in the mid 1980s so any usage would have to be strictly limited to ensure that your system cleared out within just three days or so.
I broke EVERY one of those. And here i thought i was a decent soldier. 😏
Me too smh lol
No rule really applies if you are an e-4....lol
If the officer is not in your command
I feel so square when these videos get posted. Always the Johnny on the spot kind of guy. I never once broke any of these rules. By the time I guess I might have felt an inkling to do any such thing, because previous to this I was possibly naive and virgin minded into my twenties. Yeah, I said it. I'm not going to hide it now that I'm 3 times that.
Bar hopping in you Humvee tactical amb with your buddies to cmp red cloud and Stanley
Yeah broke pass plenty of times at Ft Hood.
You were at Ft Hood ??? So was I ??? Were you in 1st Cav ??? I was,hated it too. LOL.
@@kerry-j4m
1CD from 03-06 and 62nd🤢 06-09.
@@lelandgaunt9985 Oh,yeah-1st Cav !!! LOL. Let's go.
Is that a 3rd ACR Patch on your A's? If so were you at Hood or Carson?
Carson.
@@christopherchaosI spent many years there as an MP
I spent many years there as an MP
I new officers and enlisted always screwing around
Also only on active duty Could you actually do something about the underage drinking versus if you're in the Army National Guard and Army Reserve there's no way for leadership to really enforce it because you only around them when we get a month 2 weeks in the summer so for the rest of the time they can be an 18 year old National Guard Soldier or Army reserve soldier and be drinking underage
You talking about summer-camp for the guard and reserves right ??? If you look under age your sgts can tell you not to buy liquor or drink any too.
I have smoked ,drank and had female soldiers in my barracks but that was the 80s
Missionary only.
I've always heard that too but I can't find any regulation that says that so I think it's just an urban legend.
@@christopherchaos Articles 125 and 134 of the UCMJ address sexual misconduct. The joke may arise from any other position than missionary being considered indecent. But no it doesn't say exactly anywhere. It's been a joke for many decades too.
Id beer in the units vending machines still a thing in Germany?
No
100% true..... I broke 2 of them
5 Art. 15's in 9 years
NBA GOAT: Kevin love.
Who else got demoted from E5 to E4? 😂
something dumb? Not liking this video or subscribing. 😎
Shaving
Notification platoon.
Is there a lot of dating in the Army?
Yes a lot !
It’s pretty common, yes.
Yes! Just watch out for “me too.”
I call these - anti-common sense rules.