These lists are genuinely one of my favorite pieces of content, not just on this channel but in general. I love the discussion and comparison, even If I don't always agree it's cool to learn about servants I haven't given a shot or ones I use but could use differently. Also really enjoying the addition of Co-hosts, can't wait for the rest of 2024's servant tier lists to drop. Keep up the great work Myst, Plushie and Otto.
6:21:04 I just notice, Bhima actually has Anti-Berserker append, not Anti-Ruler like Myst said later, so the fact that he can min turn a Ruler CQ proves how impressive he is.
Bhima is just an upgraded asvatthaman -slightly better gains - easy access to overcharge damage - potentially 100% crit damage - guts and cleanse - ssr stats Ash just has bigger numbers on the skills( 90% crit damage and 60% def down) and better uptime. So if ash is A+ bhima is atleast S or EX
Heya! I'd like to say thank you for accepting the feedback from your audience. Myst did do better not interrupting, and now Otto has the opportunity to work on brevity (which he couldn't as well before). Overall I am totally happy with the length of the video (though I know it's LONG for you guys!). It felt like more natural conversation. And I like the change as well of verbally saying what rank you land each servant at before moving on to the next one. It's helpful as I'm working on Excel pivots (also a nerd, surprise!) while listening.
not a lot of people know or use this, but, Leonidas is actually a hidden 40% attack up buffer, especially if you keep him at low level. On Challenge Quests, most of the time there will be multiple enemies, now Guts + Taunt interaction can sometimes be weird, but that's because instead of ending enemy's action cycle, it actually only SKIPS the NEXT enemy's action. With a single enemy on the field, it will actually end their turn, but if there's 2 or more enemies, if the Guts proc on the first action (mostly on NP), only the NEXT action from a different enemy will be skipped, the 3rd action will still come through. Hence why having 5k HP guts is really good as a taunter, at least on casual run. The other way you look at it, his Guts can actually be triggered twice in 1 turn. IF you equip a Guts CE on him, and have his Guts skill un-leveled (only 2k HP Guts but the Atk Up trigger has 20% on base), he can actually trigger his guts twice by relying on the Guts + Taunt interaction with multiple enemies, then boom, a delayed 40% attack up from a bronze unit. The only other bronze that can give 40% 'attack up' is Mata Hari, but it's a debuff instead, so pro and cons. hope this little fact can have some use :'v p.s. Leonidas buff when? Damn he'll be giga broken with damage cut :'v
It actually skips the next action in general, so if you have two enemies on the field with 1 action each the turn ends, and if you have one enemy with 3 actions on the field (Like the vast majority of bosses) the second action is skipped and they will then take their third action.
yeah, sure..the problem is we or almost all veteran master already have better alternate,off course with colour, 20 atk, 20 color, also, in matahari case, she can boost crit rate and crit dmg, 40 dmg down and 50 critdmg, easy in 3 click. .that is why matahari is more popular for "creative" master and having good enough support servant for crit dmg.
Le funny 7h video, watched it all in 2x, really fun. I really liked how Plushie just came in the end full of energy and a bunch of changes followed. I also think I'm warming up to longer videos and streams more, specially these last 3 days where I basically spent the whole day on twitch watching streams, not fgo but still. As always looking forward to the next ones.
I love that you guys take so much time to give us something like this and since I just got Enkidu after the reset last night. I know what I'm getting myself into along with the upcoming buffs to other servamts. It's all very informative and fun to watch. Keep up the amazing work!
Valkyries deserve better than C+ imo, since Parvati landed a full tier higher. They're largely on par with Parvati, and while Parvati spikes higher with her one-turn buff, the Valks have a better performance consistency. Parvati's party charge is negligible, and the Valk's have 20% NP strength in-kit, making them technically Oberon compatible. And Vritra for A, assuming a double Castoria comp, she's solid.
The problem is that 20% np strength is incomparable to 80% np strength. Parvati's refund numbers means even with minimum amount of overkill on 3 enemies, she'll still hit ~60% charge. Which means black grail is often an option. When Parvati has more DPS-relevant tools, party effects, significantly more damage across each wave, and better refund, Valks don't look good. If you are working from a 50% CE, for a lottery for example, then Valks do more damage on waves 1 and 2. However, you do not have to use Parvati's S2 on the final wave. Any wave you use it on she will do more than the equivalent Valk number. Since you are either overkilling the final wave anyway with Oberon or it is a 90++ node, then Parvati's S2 can always be moved. Therefore Parvati is equivalent to Valks in a 6CE 90+ format, either slightly worse or slightly better, but significantly better outside of it. Is it a full tier different? No, personally, but it is still a significant difference.
Watching this way later but Vritra is not A, she’s not even B+. She has an objectively worse kit than Brademante and isn’t better than her at particularly anything even when considering Arts is better card type overall. Farming she’s worse, dpsing she’s worse. Her first skill is worse than Brad’s first skill that Myst had complained about before, her guts is 2 turns longer but on a longer CD and tied to her utility, at least Brad’s is a full defensive skill that you pop when it’s needed for defense. Anti-divine party wide means nothing over Brad’s anti-earth outside of multi core and even then the cases where you fight all divine enemies in a single farming quest is not common. Vritra has one of the worst kits of an more modern SSR Lancer, it’s extremely barebones and gimped by bad balancing. Her and Brad are the same tier, their uses cases are the same and the only edge Vritra has is being Arts while Brad is just the better servant. Either both at B or B+, but they are not even half a tier apart, Vritra is just a bad SSR.
I can't believe Otto names Ryan Gosling roles and he doesn't mention his first major role, the most FGO relevant, as Youg Hercules, or Hercules Lily if you will.
58:51 there's Shinjuku avenger Lobo that's kinda tricky if you don't have a good moon cancer or berserker. He does really good there. 1:03:01 Also I like how the "Damaging Cu" do less damage than "Survival Cu" without his anti trait lol.
Jeanne has 50% def down. Van gogh gives 30% atk up and 20% def down/Quick res down. Abigail summer has 70% def down and 30% buster res down. Wu has 30% def down and 20% atk up/quick up. Morgan has 20% atk up and 30% def down. There are other options, but still really good for raids/1T nodes.
I do wish Quirinus has the Lancer deck instead, they want to generate stars and crit often. Also, beware of enemies that has magic resistance, they can resist Roman traits, so that's another factor. With that said, I agree he is EX- or S tier, thanks to their ever stacking damage that ramps up with either ATK Ups or Roman stacks.
Kinda surprised there was even contention about putting Grand Roma in EX. Even with all of her buffs, I’d bring him over Eresh any day of the week because she still hits like a wet noodle despite all the utility. Also super happy with the Bhima love. He’s been super consistent for me even at NP1. Lancer Ryoma’s FA is probably the most wholesome FAs in the game for me. Love seeing best couple happy.
Fellow Eresh Simps rejoice! Use me to skip the best part of the tierlist despite there already being a timestamp for her. 5:21:02 Although I *HIGHLY* recommend watching the entire tierlist through because yes. But fr though amazing tierlist as always and I'm glad to have been a service to those wanting to see our goddess asap. 😊
My favorite class ❤ Scathach, Vritra, Melusine, Ereshkigal, and Valkyrie are my favorites, though I know Valkyrie isn't super useful. Scathach is S imo, same as Enkidu. I grailed my Gareth to 90 because she's actually decent for Grail Fronts. But I don't use her for anything else. Cuu Prototype is one of the only ones that have type damage against Wild Beasts (which I know is an uncommon need).
The fact that at just OC200%, he can match the damage of a post upgraded Buster ST NP, on top of having full buff removal before damage is ridiculously strong. And getting to OC isn't hard either, we got CEs, supports, and NP chains for it
@astridparungao4971 if your criteria for a unit being good is that at 200% they can do things some things others can do at 100%, you're rating things wrong.
As a np5 parvati haver (what no kama does to a mf) i must say she is INCREDIBLE. Her usage in farming has obviously gone down with arts and buster meta but she was my first power trip in the game, girl was an absolute murder machine, looping np, critting to hell and back, charm gallore and np 5 basically solves the damage issue entirely. I still use her in cq with multiple ennemies and she's still godly. At np 1 i think A is fair but at np 5 she is at least S and i won't take no as an answer. Np 5 is the biggest boost in performance over np 1 for any servant i've ever experienced.
@@frumpyk3245 i finally got kama after actually... Please don't look at np5 munenori this has obviously nothing to do with getting kama whatsoever --' (F2P btw _cries_ )
Seeing servants like Eresh makes me wish that others got at least some of the same treatment. Looking at Lancer Artoria and Semiramis. Great for Eresh though, I am happy for her!
About Qin Liangyu 2nd skill the debuff immune and buff removal resist should be for all allies, 50% healing effectiveness would be nice tied to her 3rd skill+ Evasion 2 time 3 turn(yes she still heals on what's supposed to crit, invincible etc... as I have tested it) on her Np add a fixed heal for about 1k... the reason why i didn't say the guts could just use more health right out is because I think it would take more of the strategy away from her.. anyway moving on.. she need MORE base Atk maybe 1k, her 3rd skill should probably have less cooldown because 8 is kinda insane but whatever np charge should probably be better than a measly 20%max since her np counts on her Overcharge and such
@@danween Such as doing half of his damage. Morgan is good but she is not better than Arjuna lol. At best you can argue that they are equal/really close
@@muratticugaratti1571 she is a better DPS, and if you’re just talking about farming then fine AA is better. Morgan can semi support and can literally be plugged into any team as an alternate. also AA is heavily reliant on his debuff and if it misses his damage is so much worse than Morgan. and if Morgan hits more than just Man she does, in fact, do more damage than AA. the farming brain rot is strong lately. farming is not everything pookie
Ryouma is a challenger first, a farmer second. His second skill is deceptively valuable, it saved me many times. Him being AOE makes battles a little slower than they should, and he isn't a crit monster either, but survivability? With a good defense team he can stay around for quite some time.
As long as Eresh and Melusine get their proper attention, all is well with the world. Thanks for taking the time to do these tier lists every year, I always watch them even though I don't play the game that much.
6:43:40 Hi it’s me and I want to justify my opinion about Caenis and Vlad (from a perspective of f2p, also not considering min turns and solos) My main problem with her is that she has her main buff on NP and the NP is not spamable enough, also she’s AOE and it’s brings her down a lot, while Vlad is single target his damage is better and not depends on how often you use his np, he also has good utility and greater variety of different effects
Vlad’s NP isn’t that great unless you’re using it on his niche. Caenis’s NP isn’t that hard to get to either, with her crits, good np gain and battery. His only real defence is a 1 turn 40% too, compared to Caenis’s 3 turn 3 time damage cut and guts.
@@prrrusssia I had to check it out for myself because I didn’t exactly remember, and in a brave chain at least, with her arts critting, she does pretty good.
Fun fuct about Fions charm debuff: If you manage to use his np, before you use the evade skill, will he have a mental debuff resistence and will not obtain his own debuff. Aside of the point, that female charming enemies are rare.^^
I'm only just noticing this now, but the maximum refund is wrong for every servant in the refund spreadsheet. It doesn't account for the killing hit getting the overkill bonus. This obviously makes the most difference for 1 hit NPs but can also be quite significant for 3 hit NPs, as some of the best loopers have 3 hit NPs.
Ereshkigal at EX as expected, nice. Seems like the S rank could be relabeled as EX- maybe, but overall it's just me nitpicking it's still obvious where S is supposed to be in terms of powerlevel.
I respect all the placements, they are legit ngl, but i really hope they will make diarmuid better, at least for the anime. It s kinda sad how they made him so weak compared to cu chulainn. He should be maximum 2 tiers away from cu, I hope they’ll fix him in the future
For an answer to that conversation of who has the worst quick cards in the game, atwiki has a sortable list of all command card efficiency for all servants (not 100% up to date unfortunately), and the 5 worst are Caster Gil, summer Valks, archer Nobu, Tamamo caster, and Marie rider.
@@Ottobean correct. My mistake. Rider's are middle of the pack. More than twice as good as Caster, and more than 3x as good as casgil or summer valks (clearly as a result of bad base NP gain due to huge hit count on NP)
Kinda sad that Ptolemaios got shafted to just A+ while Melusine gets to remain in EX. I guess being able to deal a lot of damage does make the biggest difference, in spite of her 3rd skill being dead for her ST form.
It's not just that, Ptolemy also has unreasonably high CDs, worse offensive utility, no ramp up for the AoE form, and the fact that he swaps back and forth is really annoying. It should also be noted that Melusine has hard survival in her AoE form...
Ereshkigal is easily below Mélusine. While she has lots of useful little things in her kit that can help a team in many specific situations, none of them are game changing, and none of them have overtuned values. Besides that, she lacks what is important the most, that is damage, and has her biggest steroid tied to a 1-turn skill, which makes it even worse for her to deal damage. To put it simple, she is a very mediocre DPS, and a stellar "semi-support", only that "semi-supports" in this game aren't really the most useful of the archetypes to have.
There's nothing game changing about Melusine either.. She can black grail loop as a buster servant, tiamat and a free 4 star aka salter can do it as well.. She can swap nps(which is very awkward to use in boss fights and cqs), Ptolemy and summer barghest can do it as well(their swap skill is wayy better than melusine).. Only thing melusine has going for her is damage but unfortunately she is not even highest damage dealer anymore... I will anyday prefer eresh over melu in cqs and boss fights ... In farming ifever I have to farm earth attribute enemies(which is most common attribute in the game) I will easily choose some like eresh, S ibuki, valk summer over melusine... Melu and eresh being in same tier is absolutely justifiable
And what do u mean she lacks in damage, she literally has an np buff and best attribute damage mod in the game.. And u casually forgot the fact that eresh has 20 percent attack up for 3 turns which is a ramping effect in addition to buster up before damage as well... So she is by no definition mediocre in terms of damage...
The thing is, I agree Melusine is better even if she doesn't help the team like Eresh does. But I don't like the idea of a straight up full dps being in EX+ anymore. That should be reserved for meta supports. An NP1 melusine isn't an account changer. But an NP1 Castoria, Summer Skadi, Koyan Light, Oberon etc. certainly are. But also just because Melusine is better I don't think Eresh should be punished. Imo she is also top tier.
@O Yeah, on the matter of promoting Mélusine, I certainly agree with you; I didn't mean that you should add Mélusine in an "EX+" tier, because that would also be overkill for her, however, the fact still stands that she is considerably better than Ereshkigal, so it ends up feeling a bit odd to have both on the same tier. What I thought that would be better would be to have Ereshkigal on S tier as well, because even though she is a very solid unit with her own tools that she brings to the table, I really don't see these tools justifying being on the highest spot on a tier list, and it's not a matter of "punishing her", but rather a logical progression-if Mélusine is better than her, and S is reserved for those that are amazing but not peak, then it sounds very fitting for Ereshkigal for me. I'm not the type of guy that can only think about farming and DPS as well, on the contrary, I consider things like survival and other useful non-damaging buffs to be something very interesting and important as well, however, it is as I said: what Ereshkigal brings to the table is plentiful, but hardly enough to change a fight a whole lot, and the cost of her having these tools is her damage, that ends up severely impacted. She can do very well some side support, and can also do very well some side damage, but she will hardly be an amazing main DPS, or an amazing main support, and these are the most important roles in this game.
@am9641 Of course there is: Mélusine is the highest looping neutral damage in the game that does not depend of any niche to hit above even the likes of Kukulkan and Gilgamesh (for the later, provided you have NP2+), and even when taking niches in consideration she only loses to a select few Servants, and that is thanks to her ability to use Black Grail in farming, which gives her privileged damage above almost anyone else. With high enough investment, she can literally become an omnilopper capable of doing almost any farming content in this game besides, obviously, 90++ involving Sabers. The fact that other Servants can also utilize Black Grail, doesn't means that she isn't the best at that, and the fact that other Servants can swap their NP between ST and AoE, also doesn't means that she isn't the best at that, and being the best in many relevant things definitively makes her game changing. A powerful Mélusine will cover nearly every offensive necessity that a Master may have in this game, provided they have Supports as well, of course, and all of these already existing mentioned advantages will only grow more, the more you invest on her, because most of her competitors in the Lancer class have their NP upgraded already, which means that they yield much lower results when increasing their NP levels. I would only prefer Ereshkigal over Mélusine in a CQ if the main gimmick of it is about Instant-Death, in which case I wouldn't bring Ereshkigal anyways because Skadi can cover that much better, as she would do that as a Support, still allowing me to use someone fully focused on damaging the enemy. For farming, even when hitting Earth, Ereshkigal is still below Mélusine in damage, by a large difference, mind you, and while Earth is the most common attribute in the game, that only goes as far as all enemies are included; when talking about Servants only, Human has far more Servants, and as far as most of farming scenarios goes, specially 90++ where the third wave tends to be the most important, it is nearly always a Servant that you will be facing there, sometimes even on the 2nd wave, on the case of 90++. And no, I didn't forget that Ereskigal has a 20% Attack Up ramp-up, the thing is that even with that she will simply be demolished by Mélusine in terms of damage, EVEN if her niche activates. Without it, she will still lose to the likes of Romulus, and that is considering merely farming-if we are talking of CQs, then Romulus can stack his Noble Phantasm and easily trash her damage as well, not mentioning how he already does that with his cards damage, and how he is way more consistent, not having a 1-turn steroid. I'm not saying that Ereshkigal is bad, because the game is not all about damage, but she is, undeniably, mediocre as a DPS, not horrible, neither great, just mediocre.
Eresh and Bhima being in the same tier as Melusine is kinda crazy. She can do so much more than those two, its crazy on single arts looping and on buster looping. I think she changed the meta, this is not an understatement. If you look up the meta when she came out, all the dps's that came before it were good, but not stupid good. She made a huge influence on new loopers and playstyles.
Tiamat wayy better than melusine in farming taking both damage and flexibility into consideration... In boss fights, melusine is awkward to use because her third skill doesn't allow her to switch between her ascensions like barghest summer.. Now if melu had that option, she would easily b ex+.. No doubt about it.. In terms of crit damage potential, bhima does more consistent crits whereas roma has better crit damage potential.. In terms of survival and team utility, eresh absolutely Outclasses melusine... U will find atleast one unit who's better than her in one or the other area... I m sorry but she's not unique anymore ..
Eresh has aoe dmg and gain buffs with 50% charge She gets to be used for 6-slots in normal nodes as a wave 1 killer without much trouble. Bhima is just for 90++ really.
@@GS_CCCnot really.. U can definitely use bhima for boss fights and cqs.... If v strictly speak about farming, melusine is wayy better than eresh.. But in general usage case, I can see y bhima, melusine and eresh can b in same tier..
@@preetham9641 you know that everyone can do CQs/bosses, its not a relevant topic. Doing it 1-5 turns quicker isn't much when its a once a month thing.
Tbh i can see Melusine in EX+ even if she's not a support simply because she's so much more valuable than any other dps for an account. While every other dps is tied to a single type of ST or AoE and B, Q or A card, she can fill both ST and AoE and ALSO flex between arts and buster. This + her insanely good kit and numbers make her a unique servant that will probably never be replicated in the entire game.
@@danween Yea because the pretty crazy numbers on her other skills, and np make up for it. And also because think about it, If you're grailing a Melu to 120, her ST being a bit worse dmg wise than the literal top dogs of ST doesn't really matter. So you get a really good arts ST with very spam-able np and the best or second best Buster farmer in the entire game. She's one of, if not the most valuable 120 grail you can do.
@@Aggerrmy dude if u have to consider level 120 to justify her st damage, then she doesn't deserve to b ex+... Just accept it.. After Ptolemy and bargest summer, she isnt unique anymore.. She literally has zero reasons to b in ex+
Never got to say this on stream chat but for 5 turn cd mana bursts such as Artoria and Karna's you can use them on two turns because of double koyan, so in farming specifically they are not that bad. For bosses yea they aren't that good
Summer Tama has one big niche LB4 the amount of male archer servents is insane. I got her at np2 and if they did not introduce the breakbar mechanic she would most likely one shot most of the bosses in lb4.
I think they overtuned Melulu skills so much because if she's arts, she's gonna have only two skills basically, thats why she have to have full kit in those. Then third skill is basically overkill, but we dont talk about this.
They spent a lot of time making lostbelt 6 so they wanted all the servants and supports they released to totally drain your sq and hopefully give them tons of money. Hence the back to back months of meta defining servants.
Personally i don't think there is 1.5 tiers between britomart and Bradamante, Bradamante is just Britomart but better for cq's. Brad has better utility, defence and even np damage. She also has a better anti trait albeit a trait that a lot of servants have. Britomart just has better refund and card damage. Brad can even farm Archers as good as Britomart. Idk i just think Brad gets too much hate. I used her against the camelot cq of saberwars 2 and they were mostly sabers. I've used her for most story boss fights that are 2 or more enemies and i really like her stun.
btw two little things Lartoria can actually bg farm, 0+50 self + 50 koya + miss crane np 30+20 oberon+ 50 koya2 50 self+ 50 oberon There is indeed a problem with team cost but it is doable if like there are 3 star ce's while farming events Second thing is Bhima Otto and Plushie talked about the difficult in doing overcharge, luckily tho, at least in minturning, Oberon does exist and while every other units would get boned by Oberon's NP Bhima will purge the invuln AND get the OC, so yeah there's not even that problem when closing fights
Myst, I have a suggestion. How bout whenever u guys finished with the tierlist, u make a smaller list which containing top 3 of ur fav from the list. And obv this one is so subjective since it's ur fav after all
I think Ibaraki should've been ranked relative to Kiyohime rather than Raikou. Kiyo has stronger NP damage vs 1 turn of Ibaraki having crit dmg. And having an NP battery actually means Kiyo can get to her NP better now, with burn actually being relevant between the amps and Honey Lake CE. All of this is to say, I think Ibaraki is probably more like half a tier above Kiyo, rather than half a tier below Raikou. I think people are still under rating the Kiyo buff.
Taiga makes me really sad. I like her character but shes locked to story banner roles. Shes almost forgotten, with the only thing holding her together being her first skill. I wish they would make her a regular 3 star and maybe give her some buffs, but I think she will just be forgotten about.
Yeah she sucks unfortunately I love her as a character and her stage 3 is surprisingly cool, but she’s both bad, and story locked. They should give her an np buff with anti-humanoid damage mod and a skill cool-down like Ozy and Barghest, as a start
Last year my Cu was EX, this year he is A tier. The slander is real. (Gonna ignore the fact that everyone else that was in EX tier last year is down to S or A+ cuz I'm biased, but should've put an EX+/++ tier instead so I don't feel so sad Cu got bumped down and instead feel that his rank stayed the same by artificially inflating the amount of tiers)
They overtuned Ereshkigal for real. Poor Ishtar looks like a day 1 Servant now: low numbers on 1st skill, dumb RNG on hard defense, delayed neutral burst... her NP is ok now, decent damage and a nice star bomb. This is the Lancer tier list though, not the right place to talk about the other Rin lol
It makes sense actually. Those who loves to use Cu often have him grailed. An ungrailed Cu (which is one of Myst's criteria) is kinda meh. Melu is very strong offensively, mostly thanks to the ability to touch Black Grail, but she isn't broken at NP1, her arts from is pretty doodoo at NP1. Eresh, on the other hand, is very solid all around after the buffs. Even at NP1 she has decent damage with a decently wide Earth niche and very useful support utilities. She's good all around, no matter at farming or boss fights or solo.
My thoughts on the tier list: Back to lots of things to say again Myst really needs to learn how to use the spreadsheets he is looking at. He didn’t understand why the 10% defense down for Gareth is included when it is after damage. But that is how that spreadsheet calculates damage for everyone. Cu should be EX (or maybe S after that addition) and can absolutely be a DPS too. He has the highest non-niche damage on the entire ST damage list. He beats a third of the SSRs at the same NP level, let alone NP5 to NP1. His gains are a bit of an issue. But not much more than any non-arts servant, especially of the lower rarity. It isn’t even like the welfare shop hurts him, because he is better than the welfares in damage. And again not sure that I would change his rank, but Cu prototype has 2 things that let him stand out that you didn’t mention much: ignore defense and wild beast trait which gives him some use case. And his damage with the upgraded NP is competitive with the welfares so he isn’t totally overshadowed even at base either. I think Hector is worse than Romulus, though probably close enough to be the same tier. The battery isn’t enough to let Romulus loop (easily), but does help get to the NP faster in CQs, and is enough for some multicore if you don’t have better. Romulus has better damage 60% of the time, and has a party wide attack up on his NP to somewhat match Hector’s party wide NP damage. Plus while the guts uptime is bad, it is at least some hard defense. He is a little less consistent in damage, but his overall usability is higher due to that battery. I am glad you upped Medusa Lancer. Her damage is crazy good (she is the second highest damage ST lancer on the spreadsheet despite not being a 5 star), she has great defense, her np gain isn’t even that bad (1.76 is above average for her deck, though her quicks do admittedly suffer for it, it averages out to be about normal) She even solos really well with 2 skills and her NP helping out, plus high passive debuff resistance. The 30% battery further helps vs the 20% or less most of her competition has. I think the difference between Valks and Parvati is warranted. I think she was already ever so slightly better even when Skadi was the only meta support, though probably the same tier, and then Oberon and append 2 really helped Parvati and did almost nothing for the Valks. Ibaraki is definitely worse than Medusa, probably should be half a tier lower. Sure her self buffed np gain is better (though not by as much as I think some people thing, Medusa solo’s pretty easily based on her NP charm so her np gain isn’t that bad). But Medusa has 30% more battery and 100% quick up from supports that Ibaraki won’t have. Plus even if Ibaraki somehow managed to NP twice as often as Medusa, they would still only tie in damage, that’s how big the difference in damage is. And that isn’t even counting Medusa’s solo potential Brynhildr should be way lower, like C+ max and probably C. I would legitimately take Proto Cu over her even at the same NP level. She does less at NP3 than an NP1 Don Quixote, while not having any hard defense, and having less party wide support. Only thing that saves her from being absolutely trash is the 30% battery. She is basically worse than Kiyohime lancer otherwise, and I am not sure 10% more battery is enough to counter both higher rarity and lower damage. She is also definitely worse in every way than Tamamo lancer. I think Melusine should be EX+. I know you want to save it for meta supports. But she is at that level. (In fact if you do the math, if you don’t have your own Oberon, Melusine is actually better than Koyan light for buster looping, now rolling your own Oberon does change that, but even then, it is 50% because you can borrow a strong Melusine from the friends list if you have your own Oberon, though the rest is because of Arjuna Alter, Tiamat, etc. do become competitive options with double Koyan and Oberon, but even that requires Koyan and a top DPS to match Melusine and Waver) You should have left Caenis in A for sure. Caenis isn’t 1.5 tiers higher than Nezha. In fact running Koyan+Castoria support in the same free quest, against riders to drag things out twice each (my Nezha and Caenis are both NP1), Nezha cleared faster (Nezha took 6 turns both times, Caenis took 7 and 8 turns respectively) and that is in NA where she doesn’t have her skill 3 buff. Caenis does have more defense sure (and for the whole team, Caenis attack downs kept the Castoria alive even against the riders, Nezha’s Castoria died both times despite needing to survive fewer turns), but not enough to counter a slower clear time, Nezha’s skill upgrade, and 1.5 tiers.
I understand the arguments for Melusine in a way but at the same time, a lvl 90 Np1 Melusine is definitely not an account changer. Is she still super strong tho? Yes, that's why she's EX. Now, an NP1 Oberon, Summer Skadi, Koyan Light, Castoria etc. are absolutely account changers, so that's the way I see it now.
@@MystFGO She is as much an account changer as Koyan Light is by my math Melusine let's you loop with any 2 50% chargers and a borrowed Oberon, meaning she can absolutely replace Koyan Light. and damage wise she is the same as Ereshkigal in that scenario.
@@adrastos8401No? Being a decent np1 looper without buster supports as a lancer is not remotely equivalent to enabling the majority of the buster system and also looping decently in a class that struggles for good looping. If Melusine was a zerk then maybe I could understand where you'd be coming from, but she's not. Even at max investment, she's not clearing 90++ nodes neutrally, which is something Summer Ibuki could do. At NP1, neither is even close. I really just don't understand where this mentality comes from that being the best 90++ lancer and having 90+ neutral abilities puts Melusine at the level of the card system supports. Lots of things are best in class for 90++ and can clear neutral 90+ nodes at maximum investment. Why would they be equivalent to the supports that give them and all other servants of their card type their looping and damage?
@@Guamless But the point is that she doesn't enable looping Melusine herself. For example. You have Buster looping DPS, Castoria, Waver. and you are on the rerun banners (where Koyan Light and Melusine got rate ups but not Oberon) Who gives you the best buster looping team? Melusine. (side note Summer Ibuki can't do 90++ neutral)
Her crit support is frankly irrelevant because realistically speaking you'd never use Bryn for that. I do feel that A+ could be argued for Brynhildr however, given that she has an upgraded NP with a strong SE, a 30% battery and decent crits.
While I think it’s a stretch to have 2 Lancers on Melusine’s level I think it’s overall a solid tier list. With Melusine you arguably don’t need anyone else. And while buffs for Ereshkigal and new characters are impressive…they simply aren’t on her level.
I don't think scatha deserves an A+. She has bad gains and bad hits except for his busters, which is unfortunate for a critic character like Ushi Rider. His abilities must be used at specific times or simultaneously. To use his criticals you must also use her performance that turn and if you do not roll his np that turn you will not have np damage afterwards, if you want to use her np you must also use her evasion to guarantee criticals later. If you want her damage you lose their protection. If you don't go against divine you have one less skill, the undead niche is pretty bad, normally, normally those who have it are minions of free quest, and most also have the demonic trait anyway
You don't use Scathach, that much is clear. Her damage is absolutely absurd, divine is a really broad niche, the guaranteed stun tied to NP is amazing utility to have, her evade is on a short CD and her solo potential is very good as well. Her gains being awkward doesn't really invalidate all of her other merits, and even then, in solos she can NP every other turn thanks to mighty chains and such while locking down the enemy's actions. Adding to that, in teams, while she can't cleanly loop her NP, her crit damage is enough to explode bars by itself, more so when her third skill is applicable.
@@Founder_of_Morgans_Fanclub I have it, that's why I know the problems it has. the anti divine is still a niche and in this game the damage per niche is not so optimal when you don't always know where they are or when those enemies will appear. And if it doesn't go against them it is one less skill and there is no more
@@0ReRevolver Divine is probably one of the top 5 most common niches, and while we all want buffs for Scathach shes still got enough dps and survivability to be a top tier. We did get buffs and updates for both og Jeanne sisters so fingers crossed other year 1 ssrs get a touch up one of these days.
I would like to point put the Ereshkiegal bias here. Her damage just isnt good enough. Her First and Third skill are completely defensive and her attack stat is aweful. All she has is a mana burst on 5 turn CD, thats it. She doesnt even deserve to be in S let alone EX. The OC on her NP is also really underwhelming. She does have a good super-effective against Earth and upgraded NP so she is definitely A+
Bradamante has better np damage than brito, and brito is more depend to face her niches to do a great damage. With brada the earth atribute is the most common in farm nodes
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/1.gif)
These lists are genuinely one of my favorite pieces of content, not just on this channel but in general.
I love the discussion and comparison, even If I don't always agree it's cool to learn about servants I haven't given a shot or ones I use but could use differently.
Also really enjoying the addition of Co-hosts, can't wait for the rest of 2024's servant tier lists to drop.
Keep up the great work Myst, Plushie and Otto.
6:21:04 I just notice, Bhima actually has Anti-Berserker append, not Anti-Ruler like Myst said later, so the fact that he can min turn a Ruler CQ proves how impressive he is.
Bhima is just an upgraded asvatthaman
-slightly better gains
- easy access to overcharge damage
- potentially 100% crit damage
- guts and cleanse
- ssr stats
Ash just has bigger numbers on the skills( 90% crit damage and 60% def down) and better uptime.
So if ash is A+ bhima is atleast S or EX
Heya! I'd like to say thank you for accepting the feedback from your audience. Myst did do better not interrupting, and now Otto has the opportunity to work on brevity (which he couldn't as well before). Overall I am totally happy with the length of the video (though I know it's LONG for you guys!). It felt like more natural conversation. And I like the change as well of verbally saying what rank you land each servant at before moving on to the next one. It's helpful as I'm working on Excel pivots (also a nerd, surprise!) while listening.
not a lot of people know or use this, but, Leonidas is actually a hidden 40% attack up buffer, especially if you keep him at low level.
On Challenge Quests, most of the time there will be multiple enemies, now Guts + Taunt interaction can sometimes be weird, but that's because instead of ending enemy's action cycle, it actually only SKIPS the NEXT enemy's action. With a single enemy on the field, it will actually end their turn, but if there's 2 or more enemies, if the Guts proc on the first action (mostly on NP), only the NEXT action from a different enemy will be skipped, the 3rd action will still come through. Hence why having 5k HP guts is really good as a taunter, at least on casual run.
The other way you look at it, his Guts can actually be triggered twice in 1 turn. IF you equip a Guts CE on him, and have his Guts skill un-leveled (only 2k HP Guts but the Atk Up trigger has 20% on base), he can actually trigger his guts twice by relying on the Guts + Taunt interaction with multiple enemies, then boom, a delayed 40% attack up from a bronze unit.
The only other bronze that can give 40% 'attack up' is Mata Hari, but it's a debuff instead, so pro and cons.
hope this little fact can have some use :'v
p.s. Leonidas buff when? Damn he'll be giga broken with damage cut :'v
It actually skips the next action in general, so if you have two enemies on the field with 1 action each the turn ends, and if you have one enemy with 3 actions on the field (Like the vast majority of bosses) the second action is skipped and they will then take their third action.
yeah, sure..the problem is we or almost all veteran master already have better alternate,off course with colour, 20 atk, 20 color, also, in matahari case, she can boost crit rate and crit dmg, 40 dmg down and 50 critdmg, easy in 3 click. .that is why matahari is more popular for "creative" master and having good enough support servant for crit dmg.
Thank you best turtle with the weird eye, Ottobean, for raising my beloved shishou's ranking from last year.
As someone who has lv 100 percival, enkidu and cu, seeing them ranked so high makes me happy
cultured~
Ah, i see you're a person of culture as well
Good to see a fellow grailed percy haver
I have an NP5 Percival and he's honestly so good. Low-key my real win from the Melu banner after all's said and done lol
I always use my 120 Enkidu for Cq solo. Really want a 1st skill buff someday. 😂
All is good with the world as long as Mélusine stays Ex+ tier same as last year.
Whelp
Uh huh
Melusine 😭😭😭
Nature is healing
Meluwooogh😭sine
Le funny 7h video, watched it all in 2x, really fun. I really liked how Plushie just came in the end full of energy and a bunch of changes followed. I also think I'm warming up to longer videos and streams more, specially these last 3 days where I basically spent the whole day on twitch watching streams, not fgo but still. As always looking forward to the next ones.
Thanks Myst for another banger of a podcast
I love that you guys take so much time to give us something like this and since I just got Enkidu after the reset last night. I know what I'm getting myself into along with the upcoming buffs to other servamts. It's all very informative and fun to watch. Keep up the amazing work!
SHEEESH love the placements from this list. Also, had a lot of fun listening to this at work hehe.
Ereshkigal is peak
Finally feel like proper podcast. Gooodjob myst and otto 🎉
Valkyries deserve better than C+ imo, since Parvati landed a full tier higher. They're largely on par with Parvati, and while Parvati spikes higher with her one-turn buff, the Valks have a better performance consistency. Parvati's party charge is negligible, and the Valk's have 20% NP strength in-kit, making them technically Oberon compatible.
And Vritra for A, assuming a double Castoria comp, she's solid.
The problem is that 20% np strength is incomparable to 80% np strength. Parvati's refund numbers means even with minimum amount of overkill on 3 enemies, she'll still hit ~60% charge. Which means black grail is often an option. When Parvati has more DPS-relevant tools, party effects, significantly more damage across each wave, and better refund, Valks don't look good. If you are working from a 50% CE, for a lottery for example, then Valks do more damage on waves 1 and 2. However, you do not have to use Parvati's S2 on the final wave. Any wave you use it on she will do more than the equivalent Valk number. Since you are either overkilling the final wave anyway with Oberon or it is a 90++ node, then Parvati's S2 can always be moved. Therefore Parvati is equivalent to Valks in a 6CE 90+ format, either slightly worse or slightly better, but significantly better outside of it.
Is it a full tier different? No, personally, but it is still a significant difference.
Watching this way later but Vritra is not A, she’s not even B+. She has an objectively worse kit than Brademante and isn’t better than her at particularly anything even when considering Arts is better card type overall.
Farming she’s worse, dpsing she’s worse.
Her first skill is worse than Brad’s first skill that Myst had complained about before, her guts is 2 turns longer but on a longer CD and tied to her utility, at least Brad’s is a full defensive skill that you pop when it’s needed for defense.
Anti-divine party wide means nothing over Brad’s anti-earth outside of multi core and even then the cases where you fight all divine enemies in a single farming quest is not common.
Vritra has one of the worst kits of an more modern SSR Lancer, it’s extremely barebones and gimped by bad balancing. Her and Brad are the same tier, their uses cases are the same and the only edge Vritra has is being Arts while Brad is just the better servant.
Either both at B or B+, but they are not even half a tier apart, Vritra is just a bad SSR.
I can't believe Otto names Ryan Gosling roles and he doesn't mention his first major role, the most FGO relevant, as Youg Hercules, or Hercules Lily if you will.
58:51 there's Shinjuku avenger Lobo that's kinda tricky if you don't have a good moon cancer or berserker. He does really good there.
1:03:01 Also I like how the "Damaging Cu" do less damage than "Survival Cu" without his anti trait lol.
One of these days, Myst will take a deserved holiday leaving Otto do an asmr stream.
"Liz is not good coz plenty of other characters giver 60% attack up"
Proceeds to not give a single example.
Jeanne has 50% def down.
Van gogh gives 30% atk up and 20% def down/Quick res down.
Abigail summer has 70% def down and 30% buster res down.
Wu has 30% def down and 20% atk up/quick up.
Morgan has 20% atk up and 30% def down.
There are other options, but still really good for raids/1T nodes.
Mata Hari can give up to 60% DEF DOWN including her NP
@@irontrids its 40% you won't have enough charge for her to use NP in repeatable content.
@@GS_CCC to be fair, 4 of those are 5 stars and the other isn’t even a lancer.
@@ricksanchez6766 there are probably more 4*s, those were just the ones I remembered.
I do wish Quirinus has the Lancer deck instead, they want to generate stars and crit often.
Also, beware of enemies that has magic resistance, they can resist Roman traits, so that's another factor.
With that said, I agree he is EX- or S tier, thanks to their ever stacking damage that ramps up with either ATK Ups or Roman stacks.
Cu Chulainn still in rank high makes me so happy ❤❤❤ he is already lvl 112 in my chaldea ❤
Kinda surprised there was even contention about putting Grand Roma in EX. Even with all of her buffs, I’d bring him over Eresh any day of the week because she still hits like a wet noodle despite all the utility.
Also super happy with the Bhima love. He’s been super consistent for me even at NP1.
Lancer Ryoma’s FA is probably the most wholesome FAs in the game for me. Love seeing best couple happy.
Fellow Eresh Simps rejoice! Use me to skip the best part of the tierlist despite there already being a timestamp for her.
5:21:02
Although I *HIGHLY* recommend watching the entire tierlist through because yes. But fr though amazing tierlist as always and I'm glad to have been a service to those wanting to see our goddess asap. 😊
My favorite class ❤ Scathach, Vritra, Melusine, Ereshkigal, and Valkyrie are my favorites, though I know Valkyrie isn't super useful. Scathach is S imo, same as Enkidu.
I grailed my Gareth to 90 because she's actually decent for Grail Fronts. But I don't use her for anything else. Cuu Prototype is one of the only ones that have type damage against Wild Beasts (which I know is an uncommon need).
I realized the only Lancer I have levelled is Cú so I think this video is gonna be helpful
BHIMA EX, all is right in the world.
The fact that at just OC200%, he can match the damage of a post upgraded Buster ST NP, on top of having full buff removal before damage is ridiculously strong.
And getting to OC isn't hard either, we got CEs, supports, and NP chains for it
@astridparungao4971 if your criteria for a unit being good is that at 200% they can do things some things others can do at 100%, you're rating things wrong.
Thanks for the vid myst props to otto and plushie too 🎉
As a np5 parvati haver (what no kama does to a mf) i must say she is INCREDIBLE. Her usage in farming has obviously gone down with arts and buster meta but she was my first power trip in the game, girl was an absolute murder machine, looping np, critting to hell and back, charm gallore and np 5 basically solves the damage issue entirely. I still use her in cq with multiple ennemies and she's still godly.
At np 1 i think A is fair but at np 5 she is at least S and i won't take no as an answer. Np 5 is the biggest boost in performance over np 1 for any servant i've ever experienced.
Same happened to me got NP5 Paravati and no kama, pretty much gave up on her at this point.
@@frumpyk3245 i finally got kama after actually...
Please don't look at np5 munenori this has obviously nothing to do with getting kama whatsoever --'
(F2P btw _cries_ )
I like how Melt made Saber Gilles' card skill better. And it actually fits her NP card type unlike Saber Gilles.
Another battery draining 7h tier list. There's no better thing to brighten up another rainy monday!
Have 90 lvl Gareth. Great damage dealer with Koyans and Oberon. Best puppy not only the best waifu but also a very good dps 😊
Seeing servants like Eresh makes me wish that others got at least some of the same treatment.
Looking at Lancer Artoria and Semiramis.
Great for Eresh though, I am happy for her!
I'm going to keep track of all of the EX servants from these tier lists, it would be fun to compare best of the best from each class.
About Qin Liangyu 2nd skill the debuff immune and buff removal resist should be for all allies, 50% healing effectiveness would be nice tied to her 3rd skill+ Evasion 2 time 3 turn(yes she still heals on what's supposed to crit, invincible etc... as I have tested it) on her Np add a fixed heal for about 1k... the reason why i didn't say the guts could just use more health right out is because I think it would take more of the strategy away from her.. anyway moving on.. she need MORE base Atk maybe 1k, her 3rd skill should probably have less cooldown because 8 is kinda insane but whatever np charge should probably be better than a measly 20%max since her np counts on her Overcharge and such
I really love it if in the future tier lists, you will explain a brief notes about each servants bond CE, just a quick reading.
Just an opinion tho.
most of them are bad
Watching this video post Scathach buff is pretty entertaining. Also no one expected a buff that good.
"buffs don't translate well to gameplay" I took that personally. I'm doing a list of "how a servant could function if they followed its lore".
Can’t wait for the hot take AA and Morgan A+ on the tier list
The tier list probably will take 10+ hours just to argue on those two 😭
Thats not happening lol
Morgan does way more than Arjuna Alter but okay
@@danween Such as doing half of his damage. Morgan is good but she is not better than Arjuna lol. At best you can argue that they are equal/really close
@@muratticugaratti1571 she is a better DPS, and if you’re just talking about farming then fine AA is better. Morgan can semi support and can literally be plugged into any team as an alternate.
also AA is heavily reliant on his debuff and if it misses his damage is so much worse than Morgan. and if Morgan hits more than just Man she does, in fact, do more damage than AA.
the farming brain rot is strong lately. farming is not everything pookie
3:53:20 why is it named Neptune Blessing? Sudden ROMA moment from Fandom.
remember they took literally 13 minutes to talk about Benkei lmao.
Mostly Otto tho lol
I mean I use Ana alot cause she has NP5 for some reason I just kept summoning her ….. though I haven’t summoned her since reached NP5
Ryouma is a challenger first, a farmer second. His second skill is deceptively valuable, it saved me many times. Him being AOE makes battles a little slower than they should, and he isn't a crit monster either, but survivability? With a good defense team he can stay around for quite some time.
As long as Eresh and Melusine get their proper attention, all is well with the world.
Thanks for taking the time to do these tier lists every year, I always watch them even though I don't play the game that much.
6:43:40 Hi it’s me and I want to justify my opinion about Caenis and Vlad (from a perspective of f2p, also not considering min turns and solos)
My main problem with her is that she has her main buff on NP and the NP is not spamable enough, also she’s AOE and it’s brings her down a lot, while Vlad is single target his damage is better and not depends on how often you use his np, he also has good utility and greater variety of different effects
Vlad’s NP isn’t that great unless you’re using it on his niche. Caenis’s NP isn’t that hard to get to either, with her crits, good np gain and battery. His only real defence is a 1 turn 40% too, compared to Caenis’s 3 turn 3 time damage cut and guts.
@@ricksanchez6766 to be honest, from my experience I can’t say that her gain is good, but I agree that her defense is better than Vlad’s
@@prrrusssia I had to check it out for myself because I didn’t exactly remember, and in a brave chain at least, with her arts critting, she does pretty good.
@@ricksanchez6766 but she has only one arts card, maybe in solos with rainbow chains her refund is good but I’ve never tried it actually
Fun fuct about Fions charm debuff:
If you manage to use his np, before you use the evade skill, will he have a mental debuff resistence and will not obtain his own debuff.
Aside of the point, that female charming enemies are rare.^^
Yeah we addressed it at the end of his placement too. It's kinda redundant overall.
I'm only just noticing this now, but the maximum refund is wrong for every servant in the refund spreadsheet. It doesn't account for the killing hit getting the overkill bonus. This obviously makes the most difference for 1 hit NPs but can also be quite significant for 3 hit NPs, as some of the best loopers have 3 hit NPs.
Ereshkigal at EX as expected, nice. Seems like the S rank could be relabeled as EX- maybe, but overall it's just me nitpicking it's still obvious where S is supposed to be in terms of powerlevel.
I respect all the placements, they are legit ngl, but i really hope they will make diarmuid better, at least for the anime. It s kinda sad how they made him so weak compared to cu chulainn. He should be maximum 2 tiers away from cu, I hope they’ll fix him in the future
personally, with the introduction of up to 6 enemies on a field, the 3 time evade kinda has a significant drop in value as a survivability skill.
It's not common enough yet for me to agree. It's mostly in farming/irrelevant difficulty stages too anyway.
Now that Kagetora is buffed in JP, the next tier list will have her bumped up for sure
2:33:30 Whoaaa, I used Lily for almost 3-4 years for farming.
Shishou A+! You love to see! Now I’m happier that I decided to 120 her
For an answer to that conversation of who has the worst quick cards in the game, atwiki has a sortable list of all command card efficiency for all servants (not 100% up to date unfortunately), and the 5 worst are Caster Gil, summer Valks, archer Nobu, Tamamo caster, and Marie rider.
That last one is Marie (Caster). I remembered rider having meh quick cards, but not nonexistent ones
@@Ottobean correct. My mistake. Rider's are middle of the pack. More than twice as good as Caster, and more than 3x as good as casgil or summer valks (clearly as a result of bad base NP gain due to huge hit count on NP)
Kinda sad that Ptolemaios got shafted to just A+ while Melusine gets to remain in EX.
I guess being able to deal a lot of damage does make the biggest difference, in spite of her 3rd skill being dead for her ST form.
It's not just that, Ptolemy also has unreasonably high CDs, worse offensive utility, no ramp up for the AoE form, and the fact that he swaps back and forth is really annoying.
It should also be noted that Melusine has hard survival in her AoE form...
Ptolemy also has a dead skill after you've used it once
I kinda wanna take another look at Qin Lianyu now that we also have Yui Shousetsu I think they have a fair amount of synergy
My perfect Melusine waif being EX tier as she should be. Can't wait for her to sweep Ruler class too lol
Thanks! But Cu Chulainn should have gone to S after this tier was made :D
From EX down to A tier really hurts ngl.
Ereshkigal is easily below Mélusine. While she has lots of useful little things in her kit that can help a team in many specific situations, none of them are game changing, and none of them have overtuned values. Besides that, she lacks what is important the most, that is damage, and has her biggest steroid tied to a 1-turn skill, which makes it even worse for her to deal damage.
To put it simple, she is a very mediocre DPS, and a stellar "semi-support", only that "semi-supports" in this game aren't really the most useful of the archetypes to have.
There's nothing game changing about Melusine either.. She can black grail loop as a buster servant, tiamat and a free 4 star aka salter can do it as well.. She can swap nps(which is very awkward to use in boss fights and cqs), Ptolemy and summer barghest can do it as well(their swap skill is wayy better than melusine).. Only thing melusine has going for her is damage but unfortunately she is not even highest damage dealer anymore... I will anyday prefer eresh over melu in cqs and boss fights ... In farming ifever I have to farm earth attribute enemies(which is most common attribute in the game) I will easily choose some like eresh, S ibuki, valk summer over melusine... Melu and eresh being in same tier is absolutely justifiable
And what do u mean she lacks in damage, she literally has an np buff and best attribute damage mod in the game.. And u casually forgot the fact that eresh has 20 percent attack up for 3 turns which is a ramping effect in addition to buster up before damage as well... So she is by no definition mediocre in terms of damage...
The thing is, I agree Melusine is better even if she doesn't help the team like Eresh does. But I don't like the idea of a straight up full dps being in EX+ anymore. That should be reserved for meta supports. An NP1 melusine isn't an account changer. But an NP1 Castoria, Summer Skadi, Koyan Light, Oberon etc. certainly are. But also just because Melusine is better I don't think Eresh should be punished. Imo she is also top tier.
@O Yeah, on the matter of promoting Mélusine, I certainly agree with you; I didn't mean that you should add Mélusine in an "EX+" tier, because that would also be overkill for her, however, the fact still stands that she is considerably better than Ereshkigal, so it ends up feeling a bit odd to have both on the same tier. What I thought that would be better would be to have Ereshkigal on S tier as well, because even though she is a very solid unit with her own tools that she brings to the table, I really don't see these tools justifying being on the highest spot on a tier list, and it's not a matter of "punishing her", but rather a logical progression-if Mélusine is better than her, and S is reserved for those that are amazing but not peak, then it sounds very fitting for Ereshkigal for me.
I'm not the type of guy that can only think about farming and DPS as well, on the contrary, I consider things like survival and other useful non-damaging buffs to be something very interesting and important as well, however, it is as I said: what Ereshkigal brings to the table is plentiful, but hardly enough to change a fight a whole lot, and the cost of her having these tools is her damage, that ends up severely impacted. She can do very well some side support, and can also do very well some side damage, but she will hardly be an amazing main DPS, or an amazing main support, and these are the most important roles in this game.
@am9641 Of course there is: Mélusine is the highest looping neutral damage in the game that does not depend of any niche to hit above even the likes of Kukulkan and Gilgamesh (for the later, provided you have NP2+), and even when taking niches in consideration she only loses to a select few Servants, and that is thanks to her ability to use Black Grail in farming, which gives her privileged damage above almost anyone else. With high enough investment, she can literally become an omnilopper capable of doing almost any farming content in this game besides, obviously, 90++ involving Sabers. The fact that other Servants can also utilize Black Grail, doesn't means that she isn't the best at that, and the fact that other Servants can swap their NP between ST and AoE, also doesn't means that she isn't the best at that, and being the best in many relevant things definitively makes her game changing. A powerful Mélusine will cover nearly every offensive necessity that a Master may have in this game, provided they have Supports as well, of course, and all of these already existing mentioned advantages will only grow more, the more you invest on her, because most of her competitors in the Lancer class have their NP upgraded already, which means that they yield much lower results when increasing their NP levels.
I would only prefer Ereshkigal over Mélusine in a CQ if the main gimmick of it is about Instant-Death, in which case I wouldn't bring Ereshkigal anyways because Skadi can cover that much better, as she would do that as a Support, still allowing me to use someone fully focused on damaging the enemy. For farming, even when hitting Earth, Ereshkigal is still below Mélusine in damage, by a large difference, mind you, and while Earth is the most common attribute in the game, that only goes as far as all enemies are included; when talking about Servants only, Human has far more Servants, and as far as most of farming scenarios goes, specially 90++ where the third wave tends to be the most important, it is nearly always a Servant that you will be facing there, sometimes even on the 2nd wave, on the case of 90++.
And no, I didn't forget that Ereskigal has a 20% Attack Up ramp-up, the thing is that even with that she will simply be demolished by Mélusine in terms of damage, EVEN if her niche activates. Without it, she will still lose to the likes of Romulus, and that is considering merely farming-if we are talking of CQs, then Romulus can stack his Noble Phantasm and easily trash her damage as well, not mentioning how he already does that with his cards damage, and how he is way more consistent, not having a 1-turn steroid. I'm not saying that Ereshkigal is bad, because the game is not all about damage, but she is, undeniably, mediocre as a DPS, not horrible, neither great, just mediocre.
Eresh and Bhima being in the same tier as Melusine is kinda crazy. She can do so much more than those two, its crazy on single arts looping and on buster looping. I think she changed the meta, this is not an understatement. If you look up the meta when she came out, all the dps's that came before it were good, but not stupid good. She made a huge influence on new loopers and playstyles.
Tiamat wayy better than melusine in farming taking both damage and flexibility into consideration... In boss fights, melusine is awkward to use because her third skill doesn't allow her to switch between her ascensions like barghest summer.. Now if melu had that option, she would easily b ex+.. No doubt about it.. In terms of crit damage potential, bhima does more consistent crits whereas roma has better crit damage potential.. In terms of survival and team utility, eresh absolutely Outclasses melusine... U will find atleast one unit who's better than her in one or the other area... I m sorry but she's not unique anymore ..
Eresh has aoe dmg and gain buffs with 50% charge
She gets to be used for 6-slots in normal nodes as a wave 1 killer without much trouble.
Bhima is just for 90++ really.
@@GS_CCCnot really.. U can definitely use bhima for boss fights and cqs.... If v strictly speak about farming, melusine is wayy better than eresh.. But in general usage case, I can see y bhima, melusine and eresh can b in same tier..
@@preetham9641 you know that everyone can do CQs/bosses, its not a relevant topic.
Doing it 1-5 turns quicker isn't much when its a once a month thing.
Wonder why grand Roma not join on EX tier...
He's the best boss slayer and high damage in AOE lancer
Moriarty being an Evil Archer alone should count as 10 Evil Archers as a target for Vlad since we fight him as an enemy so much
Tbh i can see Melusine in EX+ even if she's not a support simply because she's so much more valuable than any other dps for an account.
While every other dps is tied to a single type of ST or AoE and B, Q or A card, she can fill both ST and AoE and ALSO flex between arts and buster. This + her insanely good kit and numbers make her a unique servant that will probably never be replicated in the entire game.
she literally has a dead skill in her ST form. everyone hates on Artemis for having a dead skill but yall ignore it for Melusine
@@danweenthe problem with orion isnt only that. Has bad np gain and basic set of skills. And one three stars is better in her niche
@@danween Yea because the pretty crazy numbers on her other skills, and np make up for it. And also because think about it, If you're grailing a Melu to 120, her ST being a bit worse dmg wise than the literal top dogs of ST doesn't really matter. So you get a really good arts ST with very spam-able np and the best or second best Buster farmer in the entire game. She's one of, if not the most valuable 120 grail you can do.
@@danween because melusine isnt just being evaluated for her ST form, but both at the same time. thats why nobody cares her 3rd skill is dead
@@Aggerrmy dude if u have to consider level 120 to justify her st damage, then she doesn't deserve to b ex+... Just accept it.. After Ptolemy and bargest summer, she isnt unique anymore.. She literally has zero reasons to b in ex+
Never got to say this on stream chat but for 5 turn cd mana bursts such as Artoria and Karna's you can use them on two turns because of double koyan, so in farming specifically they are not that bad. For bosses yea they aren't that good
5:21:30 this aged poorly lol
Not me getting Hektor to bond 10 a few days ago 😅😂
(He was my ”first” lacer when new to the game)
Summer Tama has one big niche LB4 the amount of male archer servents is insane. I got her at np2 and if they did not introduce the breakbar mechanic she would most likely one shot most of the bosses in lb4.
Proto Cu shines in lostbelts 1,2,4 since most enemies are beast type
I think they overtuned Melulu skills so much because if she's arts, she's gonna have only two skills basically, thats why she have to have full kit in those. Then third skill is basically overkill, but we dont talk about this.
They spent a lot of time making lostbelt 6 so they wanted all the servants and supports they released to totally drain your sq and hopefully give them tons of money. Hence the back to back months of meta defining servants.
Personally i don't think there is 1.5 tiers between britomart and Bradamante, Bradamante is just Britomart but better for cq's. Brad has better utility, defence and even np damage. She also has a better anti trait albeit a trait that a lot of servants have. Britomart just has better refund and card damage. Brad can even farm Archers as good as Britomart. Idk i just think Brad gets too much hate. I used her against the camelot cq of saberwars 2 and they were mostly sabers. I've used her for most story boss fights that are 2 or more enemies and i really like her stun.
AI Adolf has great vocal range. Too bad he was kicked out of singing class.
btw two little things
Lartoria can actually bg farm,
0+50 self + 50 koya + miss crane np
30+20 oberon+ 50 koya2
50 self+ 50 oberon
There is indeed a problem with team cost but it is doable if like there are 3 star ce's while farming events
Second thing is Bhima
Otto and Plushie talked about the difficult in doing overcharge, luckily tho, at least in minturning, Oberon does exist and while every other units would get boned by Oberon's NP Bhima will purge the invuln AND get the OC, so yeah there's not even that problem when closing fights
U can swap crane to habe with camlann CE and she can still bg loop, less cost and faster run
That's true but problem is that Lartoria also has shit damage steroids, so the extra crane np goes a long way in all three turns
Percy being at least A+ is all that I need. He's my goat🔥
Ahh bhima got the EX rank hell yeah !!! Thanks @Myst !!!
Myst, I have a suggestion. How bout whenever u guys finished with the tierlist, u make a smaller list which containing top 3 of ur fav from the list. And obv this one is so subjective since it's ur fav after all
I think Ibaraki should've been ranked relative to Kiyohime rather than Raikou.
Kiyo has stronger NP damage vs 1 turn of Ibaraki having crit dmg.
And having an NP battery actually means Kiyo can get to her NP better now, with burn actually being relevant between the amps and Honey Lake CE.
All of this is to say, I think Ibaraki is probably more like half a tier above Kiyo, rather than half a tier below Raikou. I think people are still under rating the Kiyo buff.
I want to ask something. Do Enkidu’s strengthening 2 quest come to NA server yet? Cuz I can’t seem to find it anywhere
Taiga makes me really sad. I like her character but shes locked to story banner roles. Shes almost forgotten, with the only thing holding her together being her first skill. I wish they would make her a regular 3 star and maybe give her some buffs, but I think she will just be forgotten about.
Yeah she sucks unfortunately
I love her as a character and her stage 3 is surprisingly cool, but she’s both bad, and story locked.
They should give her an np buff with anti-humanoid damage mod and a skill cool-down like Ozy and Barghest, as a start
A+ for Shishou.
I am satisfied.
5:21:32 and she got the best summer version
Last year my Cu was EX, this year he is A tier. The slander is real. (Gonna ignore the fact that everyone else that was in EX tier last year is down to S or A+ cuz I'm biased, but should've put an EX+/++ tier instead so I don't feel so sad Cu got bumped down and instead feel that his rank stayed the same by artificially inflating the amount of tiers)
and as Expected Melusine still on top kek
her placement wont change for a long time.
shes way too overtuned to be beaten by another servant any time soon.
Captain alex is so goated bruh😂😂
I still kinda wish Melusine have a 30% crit damage up on her S2 but that is probably just my bias talking
Agree, she would be perfect if she had that. But again, with how packed her skillset and NP, i dont blame them (dev) to nerf her a little bit.
It's too much, sorry
Nah, Id rather have an AoE dmg and gain buff on Her or make first skill target.
Just use command codes
They overtuned Ereshkigal for real. Poor Ishtar looks like a day 1 Servant now: low numbers on 1st skill, dumb RNG on hard defense, delayed neutral burst... her NP is ok now, decent damage and a nice star bomb.
This is the Lancer tier list though, not the right place to talk about the other Rin lol
Dang melu still holds her candle well, even after eresh buff made her the best
Certain solo specialist won't be happy that cu is not EX or S tier
melusine is the strongest lancer in the game and will keep that title for at least another couple years.
It makes sense actually. Those who loves to use Cu often have him grailed. An ungrailed Cu (which is one of Myst's criteria) is kinda meh.
Melu is very strong offensively, mostly thanks to the ability to touch Black Grail, but she isn't broken at NP1, her arts from is pretty doodoo at NP1.
Eresh, on the other hand, is very solid all around after the buffs. Even at NP1 she has decent damage with a decently wide Earth niche and very useful support utilities. She's good all around, no matter at farming or boss fights or solo.
My thoughts on the tier list:
Back to lots of things to say again
Myst really needs to learn how to use the spreadsheets he is looking at. He didn’t understand why the 10% defense down for Gareth is included when it is after damage. But that is how that spreadsheet calculates damage for everyone.
Cu should be EX (or maybe S after that addition) and can absolutely be a DPS too. He has the highest non-niche damage on the entire ST damage list. He beats a third of the SSRs at the same NP level, let alone NP5 to NP1. His gains are a bit of an issue. But not much more than any non-arts servant, especially of the lower rarity. It isn’t even like the welfare shop hurts him, because he is better than the welfares in damage.
And again not sure that I would change his rank, but Cu prototype has 2 things that let him stand out that you didn’t mention much: ignore defense and wild beast trait which gives him some use case. And his damage with the upgraded NP is competitive with the welfares so he isn’t totally overshadowed even at base either.
I think Hector is worse than Romulus, though probably close enough to be the same tier. The battery isn’t enough to let Romulus loop (easily), but does help get to the NP faster in CQs, and is enough for some multicore if you don’t have better. Romulus has better damage 60% of the time, and has a party wide attack up on his NP to somewhat match Hector’s party wide NP damage. Plus while the guts uptime is bad, it is at least some hard defense. He is a little less consistent in damage, but his overall usability is higher due to that battery.
I am glad you upped Medusa Lancer. Her damage is crazy good (she is the second highest damage ST lancer on the spreadsheet despite not being a 5 star), she has great defense, her np gain isn’t even that bad (1.76 is above average for her deck, though her quicks do admittedly suffer for it, it averages out to be about normal) She even solos really well with 2 skills and her NP helping out, plus high passive debuff resistance. The 30% battery further helps vs the 20% or less most of her competition has.
I think the difference between Valks and Parvati is warranted. I think she was already ever so slightly better even when Skadi was the only meta support, though probably the same tier, and then Oberon and append 2 really helped Parvati and did almost nothing for the Valks.
Ibaraki is definitely worse than Medusa, probably should be half a tier lower. Sure her self buffed np gain is better (though not by as much as I think some people thing, Medusa solo’s pretty easily based on her NP charm so her np gain isn’t that bad). But Medusa has 30% more battery and 100% quick up from supports that Ibaraki won’t have. Plus even if Ibaraki somehow managed to NP twice as often as Medusa, they would still only tie in damage, that’s how big the difference in damage is. And that isn’t even counting Medusa’s solo potential
Brynhildr should be way lower, like C+ max and probably C. I would legitimately take Proto Cu over her even at the same NP level. She does less at NP3 than an NP1 Don Quixote, while not having any hard defense, and having less party wide support. Only thing that saves her from being absolutely trash is the 30% battery. She is basically worse than Kiyohime lancer otherwise, and I am not sure 10% more battery is enough to counter both higher rarity and lower damage. She is also definitely worse in every way than Tamamo lancer.
I think Melusine should be EX+. I know you want to save it for meta supports. But she is at that level. (In fact if you do the math, if you don’t have your own Oberon, Melusine is actually better than Koyan light for buster looping, now rolling your own Oberon does change that, but even then, it is 50% because you can borrow a strong Melusine from the friends list if you have your own Oberon, though the rest is because of Arjuna Alter, Tiamat, etc. do become competitive options with double Koyan and Oberon, but even that requires Koyan and a top DPS to match Melusine and Waver)
You should have left Caenis in A for sure. Caenis isn’t 1.5 tiers higher than Nezha. In fact running Koyan+Castoria support in the same free quest, against riders to drag things out twice each (my Nezha and Caenis are both NP1), Nezha cleared faster (Nezha took 6 turns both times, Caenis took 7 and 8 turns respectively) and that is in NA where she doesn’t have her skill 3 buff. Caenis does have more defense sure (and for the whole team, Caenis attack downs kept the Castoria alive even against the riders, Nezha’s Castoria died both times despite needing to survive fewer turns), but not enough to counter a slower clear time, Nezha’s skill upgrade, and 1.5 tiers.
I understand the arguments for Melusine in a way but at the same time, a lvl 90 Np1 Melusine is definitely not an account changer. Is she still super strong tho? Yes, that's why she's EX. Now, an NP1 Oberon, Summer Skadi, Koyan Light, Castoria etc. are absolutely account changers, so that's the way I see it now.
@@MystFGO She is as much an account changer as Koyan Light is by my math
Melusine let's you loop with any 2 50% chargers and a borrowed Oberon, meaning she can absolutely replace Koyan Light.
and damage wise she is the same as Ereshkigal in that scenario.
@@adrastos8401No? Being a decent np1 looper without buster supports as a lancer is not remotely equivalent to enabling the majority of the buster system and also looping decently in a class that struggles for good looping. If Melusine was a zerk then maybe I could understand where you'd be coming from, but she's not. Even at max investment, she's not clearing 90++ nodes neutrally, which is something Summer Ibuki could do. At NP1, neither is even close.
I really just don't understand where this mentality comes from that being the best 90++ lancer and having 90+ neutral abilities puts Melusine at the level of the card system supports. Lots of things are best in class for 90++ and can clear neutral 90+ nodes at maximum investment. Why would they be equivalent to the supports that give them and all other servants of their card type their looping and damage?
@@Guamless But the point is that she doesn't enable looping Melusine herself.
For example. You have Buster looping DPS, Castoria, Waver.
and you are on the rerun banners (where Koyan Light and Melusine got rate ups but not Oberon)
Who gives you the best buster looping team? Melusine.
(side note Summer Ibuki can't do 90++ neutral)
If u dont have oberon, u can't buster loop with melusine.. So ehh for her to b game changing (which she definitely isn't) , she needs oberon...
Didnt expect Bryn to place lower than britomart 😭 she's useable as a crit support. Hero's bridesmaid
Her crit support is frankly irrelevant because realistically speaking you'd never use Bryn for that. I do feel that A+ could be argued for Brynhildr however, given that she has an upgraded NP with a strong SE, a 30% battery and decent crits.
While I think it’s a stretch to have 2 Lancers on Melusine’s level I think it’s overall a solid tier list.
With Melusine you arguably don’t need anyone else. And while buffs for Ereshkigal and new characters are impressive…they simply aren’t on her level.
I don't think scatha deserves an A+. She has bad gains and bad hits except for his busters, which is unfortunate for a critic character like Ushi Rider. His abilities must be used at specific times or simultaneously. To use his criticals you must also use her performance that turn and if you do not roll his np that turn you will not have np damage afterwards, if you want to use her np you must also use her evasion to guarantee criticals later. If you want her damage you lose their protection. If you don't go against divine you have one less skill, the undead niche is pretty bad, normally, normally those who have it are minions of free quest, and most also have the demonic trait anyway
You don't use Scathach, that much is clear. Her damage is absolutely absurd, divine is a really broad niche, the guaranteed stun tied to NP is amazing utility to have, her evade is on a short CD and her solo potential is very good as well.
Her gains being awkward doesn't really invalidate all of her other merits, and even then, in solos she can NP every other turn thanks to mighty chains and such while locking down the enemy's actions. Adding to that, in teams, while she can't cleanly loop her NP, her crit damage is enough to explode bars by itself, more so when her third skill is applicable.
@@Founder_of_Morgans_Fanclub I have it, that's why I know the problems it has. the anti divine is still a niche and in this game the damage per niche is not so optimal when you don't always know where they are or when those enemies will appear. And if it doesn't go against them it is one less skill and there is no more
@@0ReRevolver Divine is probably one of the top 5 most common niches, and while we all want buffs for Scathach shes still got enough dps and survivability to be a top tier. We did get buffs and updates for both og Jeanne sisters so fingers crossed other year 1 ssrs get a touch up one of these days.
@@glaive120 more common ≠ estandar
Mélusine does change the meta, tho. Having her you don't even need other classes to 3t farm everything. Even saber nodes crumble under her feet.
NP1 base lvl 90 copy? Nope
@@MystFGO Mmm maybe I got too spoiled by my lv100 np5 copy... mmm...
I just got my NP3 Melussy to level 120
My 1st ever level 120 servant
Benkei may be shit, but the minute we get true Benkei, he'll be Herc+RomulusQ. Also, I'll never hate Benkei cause lore trumps power.
Still less than 7 hours, safe!
I would like to point put the Ereshkiegal bias here. Her damage just isnt good enough. Her First and Third skill are completely defensive and her attack stat is aweful. All she has is a mana burst on 5 turn CD, thats it. She doesnt even deserve to be in S let alone EX. The OC on her NP is also really underwhelming. She does have a good super-effective against Earth and upgraded NP so she is definitely A+
man, they love eresh but don`t give her summer variant. maybe this year... maybe....
Bratamante should be in the same place as Parvati
Hey Bros jp account is not opening what do I do?
Bradamante has better np damage than brito, and brito is more depend to face her niches to do a great damage. With brada the earth atribute is the most common in farm nodes
4:14:39 yeah, me. He is peak at 120 and just lives through a ton of shit
Longest one yet
We thought not having Plushie and only one new lancer would make it shorter. We underestimated Otto's ability to ramble.
The extra classes duration gonna be crazy lmao
Doesn't Caster Liz have a better battle continuation than Lancer Liz? Getting powercreeped by herself lol, even if it's a tiny bit.